authority. >> we have a clear fight over corporate welfare. >> that's the way the system works. >> that is our show tonight. >> now john stossel. >> capitalism let's entrepreneurs raise money so they can scale it up get the products and services to more people where there's free competition those are the best idea ks get more money and the best and cheapest products and services spread far and wide. that is why capitalism is great. then there is crapitalism. they partnered with politicians as the politicians gave your money to capital lists because the politicians know who is most deserving. or so they say. there are bunch of government agencies that fuel the krohn kneecap tallism the business administration gives out grants or the energy department. you know about the gifts to companies like solyndra. the biggest supporter of business is the export import bank. here's what the bank says about itself. >> they enable exporters of all sizes to increase their sales protect against the risks of international that will trade and export with con dpfidenccon. who can object to that? >> the secretary of the finance committee for one kovenlt gres man, why? >> why do i object? i think it's clear. you got it right. fairly clever term. it is corporate welfare at the end of the day. one in 1,000 have probable before i never heard of the export import bank. the one who does received a financial benefit that substantially fortune 500 companies like ge and liesh boeing who could easily finance these things themselves. you have the export man claiming they create american jobs but we heard testimony that when the export import bank helped boeing to sell a jet to air india there are thousands of pilots. when export import bank helps for example ge and others to build an oil refinery in turkey it hurts the domestic refining industry. on and on as one economist put it they kill an american job domestically. it is not helping us. what people sees the jobs created at boeing and they have an interest in boeing. the smaller companies they don't even know what is happening to them. >> i think i know what the challenges are ahead of me. they put thousands of kids through college and they have gotten the contract to go lobby in favor of xm. it is not fair. a lot of people haven't heard of it. i have a small business in my district run by halri richards texas. i export. i don't use xm. it is my tax payer money that is being sent to countries like china and russia and the sudan where there is human rights abuses. >> please respond to what the bank said here in the commercial. >> with the export import bank u.s. exporters from bustling city centers to family farms. the international building in texas makes prepab indicated houses for exports. they range from the swamps of nigeria to the succedeserts of algeria. they were leery of extending loans with the country involved with our guarantee lenders felt reassured. >> lenders felt reassured. isn't that wonderful? >> they want lenders to know it is the tax payer's money to toe the line they don't care about the risk because it is not on their pals sheet it is on the tax payer's balance sheet. last i looked the national debt is 7 trillion in increasing i keep a national debt clock going in our committee. i don't think they want it on the balance sheet. this is about the washington insider economy verses the main street competitive economy. the base of xm will be some small business in my state. the true beneficiaries are fortune 500 companies that could easily finance this themselves and instead they are financing a bob de he ha-- lobby effort to s thing going. they can't say they create net new jobs. if xm would use mainstream accounting, gap accounting, what we call fair value accounting they are losing money for the tax payer and it is not right it is not fair. we ought to end the corporate welfare yet democratic friends say the only way to export is subsidy. some of your republican friends, too. >> regrettably a number of those they are expressing their knowledge at the moment. why don't we have a free enterprise all toternatialterna. we have a high corporate tax rate in the world. if we want a level playing field bring down the corporate tax rate. >> i agree with you only free enterprise is moral. now let's hear from the other side. >> listed to the committee chair. he is wrong. >> you oppose reauthorizing the bank and so does jeff. you have two people on one side one on the other. but the argument for the bank is it is a fair fight. the fact is we don't live in the novels of ann rants. you could live in the fountain head. you could live in atlas drug there's no xm banks in those books. also germany doesn't have an xm bank, japan doesn't, china doesn't have one and neither does south korea. we are talking about unilateral military disarmament. i watch fox a lot i have seen democrats accused of unilateral disarm ooment this is the first time republicans are so anxious to engage in it. if we don't promote exports buyers are smart and they will go not necessarily for the best product but for the best financing. >> if other countries are jumping off a bridge we should jump off a bridge? >> germany has an xm bank three times as large as ours. three times as large as ours. >> they owe three times as much. >> they are manufacturing workers making more than ours. they are not running a huge trade deficit. jeb talked about the national debt that he keeps the clock running on. he wants to increase the national debt then get rid of xm banks. xm banks makes money for the tax payer and returns the money to the treasury. the only way to reach that -- >> the flood insurance company made money until it didn't. >> the difference there is that you have got a fair reserve calculated by the congressional budget office for any risks that are assumed. then you can look over a period of time as transactions are completed, and you see the fees charged may pay prophfit for th ery skrilized count-- industrialized country in the world says we have jobs. germany has one of the largest sur applaus surpluses in the world. >> if this is a way to get jobs whe why are you so cheap why don't we triple the size and subsidize all kinds of people. >> why don't we sell money to ex kim mows. >> the xm bank isn't subsidized. it subsidized the treasury. it subsidizes the loss of the treasury with all of the loopholes. >> shouldn't we make it bigger? >> i think it needs to get a btg bigger. >> if it is so good why not make it much bigger. >> we need to negotiate with the europeans to shrink theirs and ours simultaneously. the only way is you go into the talks in arms. th disarm first, sing couple b cou awe. >> that is your goal we keep ours maybe we can get rid of theirs and then we get rid of the banks? >> we down scale and eliminate export authorities of this type. >> they will be difficult negotiations but if we throw away xm before we go into that you can guarantee failure. >> you cite the companies that get help but what about the side effects? you give the airline a special break and that hurts americans who work for say delta. here's what he said at the hearing. >> the prime example is air india. a government owned government subsidized airline with the growing banks of xm financing. that cost about a thousand jobs. if if i can get a word in here you are taking a thousand jobs. >> if i could get a word in here delta gets benefits from the canadian xm bank to buy canadian aircraft. while they are deciding whether to buy the aircraft they look for the best financing package. how are we going to be able to sell our claims abroad if delta airlines is looking for financing. they didn't tell you that, did they? >> this is krohn kneecap tallism. >> we live in an imperfect world, john. >> on that note thank you. we are out of time. >> they have a much larger bank than we do. >> use the hash tag xm bank. let us know. >> the bank is so great. >> all of this stuff is conducive that's why the cronies are standing by and the legislators like you make the right choice. >> it appears some of the xm bank loan officers took rise. they say hey that happens every where. >> that's the way the system works. anybody that understands any business there are always going to be people that try to rig the system. padvil pm gives you the healingu at nsleep you need, it. helping you fall asleep and stay asleep so your body can heal as you rest. advil pm. for a healing night's sleep. add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance... ...and we'll replace destroyed or stolen items with brand-new versions. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ say "hi" rudy. 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[ barks ] nothing says you care like a milk-bone brushing chew. crestor lowered bad cholesterol in it's a fact. high-risk patients more than lipitor. bad cholesterol... you're going down! yeah! lowering cholesterol is a big deal, especially if you have high cholesterol plus any of these risk factors, because you could be at increased risk for plaque buildup in your arteries over time. so, when diet and exercise aren't enough to lower cholesterol, adding crestor can help. i'm down with crestor! crestor is not right for everyone, like people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking. call your doctor right away if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired; have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. these could be signs of rare but serious side effects. are you down with crestor!? ask your doctor if crestor could help you. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. >> they are subsidies for taxpayers. >> when it comes to picking winners and losers who has more experience than big g. >> they have upset the big spending seals opportunities from younger people like them. >> picking litters is something lots of americans want their elected politicians to do. they look at what industries deserve america's support. >> they are busy that's why we elect politicians. what's wrong with this logic? congressman sometimes quotes when he argues against the xm bank done beudreaux of george mason university. i have a life i can't decide what companies are better. >> it's the government's job. it is how consumers spend the money and how investors investment xoi tiggs sports it out. does it much better and does it with a lot less favoritism than the political process could do. >> politician both parties are deciding look at all of these jobs that have been created. >> you can point to the jobs that have been created you don't see the jobs that have not been created. without at the same time costing jobs over here because you are taking money from here and you are moving it over here. easy to see that. >> it is easy to see the gains but the losses don't exist. you don't see it is just as real. people in taxes they invest less. >> or the overseas firm which has a discount and they lose it. >> you have some american firms who are not able to get started they learn to expand and some mostly boeing by the way hardly a small little firm that needs uncle sam's help. >> they will lose the business which subsidizes even more. >> other americans are gaining business. the resources will be allocated consumers a matter of spending money will direct how the resources get spent and what happens. not politicians. >> 9 cartoon videos points out the xm bank has been dolling out for 80 years. >> you want to turn your back on tradition? >> they give great to american companies like sol linda and boeing so no vote could mean future contributions to your election campaign. >> i hadn't thought of that. >> those companies hire lobbyists give money to politicians to those who support it. >> it is crony capitalism. >> crap tallism. >> they pay foreigners to consumer products. >> that is what it does. >> they say it hasn't cost america a penny. >> it is still not here. >> so the xm bank says. it is using better accounting methods they lost about $2 billion. >> they get to use the phony accounting. >> yeah, a private company uses accounting methods they would be sued for fraud. >> the country does sub ties -- subsidize exports. those subsidies hurt those economies. we are going to hurt ourselves just as much as you are hurting yourselves. that's what the subsidies are about. it is inflicting wounds on ourselves because other countries are doing the same thing to they're coir economy. >> right down the list is ge. here's what general electric says about the bank. they made the commercial. >> he should double the size of the bank so they can support other companies as they seek to compete abroad to support american exports and american workers. >> at the end of that it is your imagination at work or something like that. this is imagination. image the products not produced. image the consumers in america who are poorer because their tax moneys are being taken to be spent in ways they don't choose but the way politicians in washington choose. image that? >> they don't have lop iebbyist the case. >> politicians believe in this this is my job to support american business. >> they may but then they are wrong. they are economically mistaken. >> next, corruption. some of the loans happen not because the company is great but because the company cronies bribe someone in government. crap tallism at work. next. starts with back pain... ...and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve... ...for all day relief. 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42 percent disagree. 29 percent that's pretty high. >> we end up in a situation where they are handing out money. unlike government programs where every player in the industry gets a subsidy not every exporter gets an export bank subsidy. less than 2 percent get a subsidy. it is picking winners and losers. you put anybody in that situation you are going to get questions about honesty and integrity. there's going to be such an opportunity for kickbacks. >> one congressman who dwot got caught was william jefferson. >> william jefferson was caught with 90,000 in his fridge and now he is in jail. he got a 13 year sentence fon bribery charges. one of the things he did was demand bribes from a nigerian company. he got it as part of what they were paying him for. when that deal fell apart he found another nigerian company brought it together with the same company again taking bribes at the export import bank. >> nigerians got to the bank because maureen was indicted for taking 100,000 dollars bribe she worked at the bank. >> she was bank official. she got wired 100,000 dollars. the nigerian businessman ascended to her when he requested the money from his own bank he said this was a solicitation payment. it was pretty cut and dry. >> yesterday at the bank hearing congresswoman carolyn mook car the implied there was no surprise. >> they found four employees did an investigation and they let him go. that is the way the system works. anybody that understands any business there are going to be people that try to rig the system. >> that's the way the system works. >> that's the way the system works when you have the government involved when you get to pick and choose who is getting it. there are some government programs where you meet the standard you get the benefit you get the tax break. i oppose those but they don't provide the opportunity for corruption because politicians bureaucrats are picking winners and losers saying this guy gets the subsidy this guy doesn't. >> fanny and freddie provide the opportunity, too. fanny executive was fired for taking kickbacks. you wrote about that. >> so in 2013 a fannie mae executive was let go and there was a criminal scheme where some of the middle men who got brokers when it came to foreclosed properties. >> fannie mae a government owned business was playing with other people's money. once you are doing that, once you see that that you are handing out somebody else's money, you are putting the person demanding money in a bribe. >> you can put some republicans with reform the ones who don't want to fill it. >> any time they are reauthorized there's a promise of reforms. we are going to stop subsidizing foreign manufacturer that is kill banks. they don't necessarily follow through. even if it follows the letter of the law. if you want to stop the kickback get the politicians out of giving the money oevenlt way to do it is to kill the export import bank. >> coming up i will fight with one of the biggest lobbyists on this list of companies that just love a government's banks. at legalzoom you can take care of virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. nicewhat?nch? 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[ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ >> the bank finances the wealthiest most profitable airlines in the world with huge amounts of our treasury dollars. >> the dealt gnaw airlines rips off taxpayers at the expense of companies like it. it is one of the corporate executives to speak against the banks. it is the trade associations that lobby for or against the xm banks all but delta lobby for the banks. this should come as no surprise. this is the principle of concentrated benefits verses diverse costs. companies that may win loan guarantees to win. it will pays the lobbies. it is not worth it if we were to hire a lobbyist. hence we get the lobbyist trill complex. when the government hands out money it will have politically connected people devoted to grabbing the money. one of those people is john hardy president of the coalition for employment through exports. it is a great sounding name. we all want employment through exports. you are on number 5 on this list of lobbyists between lord motor company and the bankers. why is this a good thing what you do. you are a parasite feeding off the taxpayers. >> no, not at all. these are companies that are facing severe competition overseas. it levels the playing field. >> it is level until the government comes in. >> you have export credit agencies with which you tweet. the only way in which you can level the financial playing field is by enabling xm to provide comparable continuing so the buyer can focus on the quality of the product he is purchasing not the financial terms and conditions. >> because other countries are throwing tax payer moneys they have to, too? >> it charges fees and interests. >> for years it didn't lose a penny and more recently it returns the money to the treasurer. >> since 2006 the bank returned 17 billion to the u.s. treasury. >> that sounds good. except fanny and freddie made money until they made money. my flood insurance they made money until they didn't. now they are 20 billion in the red. >> this bank is conservatively managed it's long lost rate at this point is lis than one-quarter of one percent. >> in the private sector it would fund it. if these are good loans. >> the private sector after the financial crisis is now in a situation where it is subject to new regulatory constraints they don't have the liquidity and what liquid ity they have is fa more expensive because they have capital reserves they were required to provide. at the same time we are in a situation where the markets are exploding. we have billions of new people moving into the middle class and there are tremendous opportunities. >> where there is opportunity a private bank would fund it. >> one of the members of export finance is high in liquidity and row in return. the bottom line is commercial banks will take a slice but they are not going to be heavily investing in it because they have to make more of a return to shareholders. >> they were meant to protect us they have to sub died more companies? >> they are not subsidizing it. >> we are operating consistent with an oecd arrangement. >> the international agreeme agreement -- -- the credit agencies are working under to provide established terms and conditions. >> the one company against the lobbying list is delta airlines. here's what they said yesterday. >> many conversations with the ceo's of the most profitable airlines in the world. they tell me i don't need the xm bank financing buts is so cheap i might as well take it. all i want is a level playing field. >> you have taken away the level playing field. >> the wree ality is indeed there is a new international agreement on aircraft. >> there are better credit airlines far more expensive it is no less expensive to get us financed through the private sector than it is to use export credit agencies. the banks you are not prepared to invest the magnitude of capital. >> they don't need so many wide bodied aircraft. >> in this case it is air bus. they are more aggressive than xm. >> they are throwing money off the cliff we should throw money off the cliff. >> the reality is, are we in a position of the delta's ability aircraft? >> we have the bank of boeing. it is about the spectrum of top tier manufacturers in the united states trying to compete in marketplaces all over the world against major export credit agents. >> thank you john hardy for putting up with me. so the odds are stacked. >> fortunately there are a few free market groups that lobbied back and punished politicians who stood for crapitalism. look forward to that next. that's a drip. now that's a leak. that is a leak! and if you don't have allstate renters insurance... game over. protect your valuables from things like water damage for as low as $4 a month when you add renter's insurance to your allstate auto policy. call 866-788-0900 now. and, if you're a safe driver, you can save up to 45%! just a few more ways, allstate is changing car insurance for good. call an allstate agent and get a quote now. iespecially when it's miralax.e really can love their laxative. it hydrates, eases, and softens, to unblock your system naturally. so you have peace of mind from start to finish. love your laxative. miralax. >> not everybody gets more money for themselves. a few just believe in something. one of those groups is a club economic freedom supported by businesses and rich people. the group opposes all special favorism and bail outouts. it involved the freddie may and fan -- freddie mac and fannie mae. when the senator supported the stimulus and later obamacare the opponents eventually back senate when florida governor charlie crist ran for the senate ran ads like this. >> we know it's important we pass the stimulus package. >> working on florida's economy not passing more debt to our children. >> the club support the marco rubio. they are fighting the export import bank. keller who works for the club i admit i have been fans of you guys for a long timing. might this be a turning point when republicans stop feeding at the trough and say enough already? >> the export import bank is funny. it's a little known agency but it has become the symbol of krocrony capitalism. those two things are not always the scene. thees what we have seen over the export, import banks is the chamber of commerce or chamber of krohn knee dcap tal -- krohn kneecap talli-- crony capitalis. you have groups like us the pro free market side that shows economic freedom means prosperity for all americans that is why we have to stop these things. >> expand on the example jim carney gave. >> exxon got funding since paying for a trip for some xm bank employees. >> it is another example of what everybody hates about washington people well connected lobbyists you can hire somebody like that and they can go out there and get a loan or subsidy from government who isn't available for you and me. >> they ran up 97,000 for still traveling to london and tokyo in the south pacific. 11 months later they received 2 billion in financing the biggest gift loan in 75 years. >> it is amazing. the 60 percent were the company lobbying to keep the banks. it is what is wrong with washington, john. it is part of why americans don't trust politicians any more. >> there is a lot going on as well. >> one more example. it is harder to see the jobs lost. the xm loan gives the caterpillars iron or miners in america. explain that. >> it is the richest woman in australia. they provide the exports. >> $100 million. >> in minnesota and michigan you are saying where are my handouts. we are not the ones getting the subsidy. >> the miners don't have lobbyists. >> coming up my take on why request this is a remarkable turning point finally. more politicians realize there is a difference between capitalism and crapitalism. ♪ (phone ringing) good afternoon. chase sapphire. this is stacy from springfield. direct access to a live advisor so you can get answers fast, and get back to the beach. chase sapphire preferred. so you can. wanna play? 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[buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. >> several sgovtment bureaucracies get yier money -- your money to favor business. money is squandered. most of us heard the energy department lost 500 million of our collars on solyndra. we hear little about other losses like solar one, the try add ethanol plant and so on. the list is long. when the list is long people get scandal fatigue even when there isn't a scandal they have no business giving money to businesses. agriculture department market access program gives $200 million to the pet food institute. the wine institute, the sun kwis and welches food. in return they get champagne contributions. that's disgusting even the small business administration is an embarrassment. they loaned a million dollars to a lamborghini dealership which then slowed. they loaned 3 million to a rolex dealer. this is where your tax money should go. the name small business administration sounds nice. the government says the spa exists to a council, assist and protect the interests of small business. how can i hire you? doesn't america need a small business policy like it needs an energy policy an export policy and so on? no, we already have one. it is called the free market. it is great at determining which exports are solar panels and small businesses are worthy and which are not. those that attract customers and make a profit then they support themselves. government need not be involved except to make sure companies don't steal or cheat. did you know there's a bureaucracy called the economic development corporation that gives out 300 million a year? bet you didn't. the eda sepent your money on so much economic development they paid for things like a wine tasting room and a gift shop in washington state. really? one fiscally conservative that i am to explain before the eda. >> economic development industry it can take 3 or 400 million for you the tax payer. brings the money to washington, d.c. and distributes them. >>ic nomic development. they are political animals. >> they shouldn't exist. congressman tried to kill the eda. he is paying. he doesn't even come close. the he promised he would put it into the eda and export import bin. i don't believe we should and can defend any government program that didn't will. waste the economic development for a fund of corporate kel player. instead of getting rid of it now the president wants to lean out even more. politicians love spending other people's money. except maybe the tea party changed things. if they do kill the export import bank and then stop other corporate welfare, it is a first step toward saving america. that is our show. see you next week. week bandara you for watching and so you back here on the same time, same channel. huckabee starts now. tonight on huckabee. >> plose let me go home. n16 months after she was taken from her parents, the night mayor is over. she is back home and joins the governor in a huckabee exclusive. and the lost irs e-mails. >> the president continues to blow off the scandal, the republicans are demanding accountability. snrngs we have a text message that he is on the way home from school and waking up he is not there. namerican citizen kidnapped in the west bank with two friends. the governor's interview with