so we're looking at setting precedent, and we're looking at state of mind and intent. and that's incredibly important when we're talking about criminal cases. >> and you said many times that whatever was happening, he would have known because control is everything. mary trump, thank you for being with us tonight. good luck going forward. >> thank you. >> all right. now, there is another window into potential distress for the former president, and that is the ongoing criminal investigation into rudy giuliani because of his dealings with ukraine. cnn has just obtained exclusive audio that exposes how trump's former lawyer pressured the country to investigate bs conspiracies about joe biden before the election. this reveals things. we'll show you, next.