0 the more rational move right now, the better decision is to actually fight for a debt limit battle, maybe even put default on the line to get concessions from the white house, you and i discussed it before. doesn't seem like the best play for the republicans, but for the speaker establishment of the republicans that seems to be the best play on the table. >> and much higher factor, orders of magnitude, running through that deadline -- precisely that reason that i think that john boehner thinks he has more leverage there. but i just can't see under any circumstances the white house negotiating towards delaying obama care, so that seems more ill-fated. thank you very much. let's turn to congressman chris van hollen, ranking member. what is the game plan here? >> well, chris, we don't know what speaker boehner is going to do at this point. he has been very close-lipped about it. the question is if he will try to attach another unrelated provision to the bill to keep the government running, whether it is related to obama care or something else. if he does that, it will be a clear signal that he is really working hard to shut down the government. and remember, ted cruz has gotten himself a little isolated on the senate side. but over here in the house, you have a lot of ted cruz es, and so far -- >> they kind of wrapped their arms around him and gave him an atta-boy. >> of course in the senate, he is a minority where there is a minority party. but in the house, the ted cruzes, they have their hands on the steering wheel so far. that is why speaker boehner has not told us what he is going to do because he has not checked with the tea party caucus. extra tough on the next crisis of the debt ceiling which is october 17th, where he feels he has more leverage, and is far more apocalyptic, is that dead on arrival? >> that is totally dead on arrival. think about what would apply, the diversion to already millions of americans that are already benefitting from the affordable care act, kids who are no longer denied care because of pre-existing conditions. but on top of that it would exclude people from insurance, if you were to say the mandate doesn't apply for a year. what happens to premiums? they go through the roof. so that is just not going to happen. and to hear the speaker say he is going to double down on that should cause great concern to people throughout the country regardless of their politics. >> from a perspective, you could reap political gains by just running the experiment and letting the disaster flower, but of course millions of americans would be hurt and you're not going to do that. thank you, congressman. all right, next, joining me steve kornacki, i find the rift in the republican party fascinating. and it is one of those things that is a cliche, but it is a very real thing, getting more intense to the point where you see substantive clashes like syria intervention, and up until now i felt that ted cruz was very deftly walking the line on this. >> in the give away a few months ago when ted cruz had the speech where he talked about the squishes. he was up against the squishes in the senate who won't fight hard enough and compromise too easily. i take your point on the rift. i don't see it as a real rift in the republican party, because substantily, everybody in the republican party says that the obama care is a terrible plot that needs to be repealed. the question becomes tactical, and it really plays into ted cruz' hand, because he can say the only difference between me and bob corker is i'm willing to push it forward. >> here is the thing, he sides with the base on a tactical thing that is not going to work, but on the reform, for syria, he was careful not to be out ahead on anything. rand paul took strong positions, chris christie took positions largely on the establishment, why ted cruz? >> because i think he is purely driven by self-interest. this is a non-ideological fight on the obama care, he has defined himself as the one voice out there against all the squishes who say it can't be done. he is willing to fight. he doesn't need bob corker or john mccain giving him cover, he needs the club growth, they're all with him so far, if he loses the big dollar donor, he will make up for it with -- >> herein lies the fascinating thing, if you look at the last two primaries, you have john mccain and mitt romney, they were the squishes. because those guys who were eye-rolling, the ones that were in the room when mitt romney made the 47% comment. sarah palin was not the nominee, she didn't even run. michelle bachmann, sarah palin, she didn't even run -- >> i have been waiting since the prelude to the 1996 republican primaries, when bob dole and john mccain loses, that is good. i have never seen the frontrunner, the establishment struggle the way romney did. they were never going to coalesce, 2012, rick santorum was able to get to 12 primaries -- >> he was plausible. >> i think cruz is a lot more plausible as a republican nominee than anybody that romney came up against in 2012. >> do you think we'll see a race towards more cruz-ism? has this been a political victory or a disaster? i think you can declare it both ways. >> what he did last night was in a way defensive, because he screwed up last week, last week he said it was just going to die in the senate. it allowed his opponents in the republican party to finally say you know what, he is not fighting as hard as we are. he had to put on a show to show the base. i think he re-gained his footing with the base. the telling thing to me, most of the voices in the republican world are not off the record. that tells you, i think the thing you really need to know. >> steve kornacki, you can watch him saturdays and sundays at 8:00, on "up with steve kornacki," a good slot. i watch it. and coming up, what many call a genius award, what he was doing years ago may have come as a surprise to most republicans in congress. stay with us. nice car. sure is. make a deal with me, kid, and you can have the car and everything that goes along with it. 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