"washington post." joan walsh is editor at large with salon. our new program shows bernie sanders is gaining momentum. according to the poll hillary clinton still leads 52% to 33%. but since may, clinton has lost 8 points while sanders has picked up 18 points. yesterday, a convincing crowd of 10,000 people packed the vets memorial coliseum in wisconsin where sanders played the part of progressive pop star. >> what this campaign is about is creating a political revolution in america. the greed of corporate america and the billionaire class has got to end. and we are going to end it for them. this is not democracy. this is oligarchy and we've got to end it. they may have the money but we have the people. and with the people standing together we can win. thank you all very much. >> you had the 10,000 people in wisconsin. he announced a fundraising hall of $15 million in the last quarter. way ahead of expectations. they're not so bad compared to hillary clinton's $45 million. that is impressive for a guy like him. in republican handle donald trump continues to raise heck. as we showed you yesterday, he has shot himself out of a cannon and is now number two in the republican field. there he is. trump has shown even more disdain for the republican establishment that bernie has for the democratic establishment. here's an example. sadly, politicians are all talk and no action. here's what's going to happen. the lobbyist there's come see me but i don't give a [ bleep ] about lobbyists. okay? >> robert costa, a lot of fun and i'll tell you, i think politics at its best has some fun element. is this more than fun? >> i think it is more than fun in this sense. you're seeing a movement bend. the bases of both parties, they want someone. >> madison is a progressive capital. that's the university of wisconsin. marching in the '60s. >> did they get the day off? i always wonder where people come from. did they get the day off? >> they've been poke and poked by governor walker year after year and they want to see a liberal fighter. >> what's going on? i think there's something in the air about the political class. what do you think of the job performance of the united states congress? it is in single digits. that's the political class left right and center. and everybody doesn't like it. >> and trump speaks right to that. that clip where he says i don't give a [ bleep ] about lobbyists. that's a sentiment of americans across the country. while washington frets about donald trump and bernie sanders, those two guys are going out in the country and capturing the imagination. the trick for trump is not to let his mouth get in front of his message. he has to now take that imagery and turn it into something, if he really wants to push for this. >> how do you arouse the crowd without really breaking the rules? it seems if you make a direct ethnic shot. if it is a direct ethnic shot and seen as such most americans will rebel against it exempt the very hard right. he also wants sty they are corrupt. they don't know how to run anything. they don't have any border policy. that will work. >> well yeah. i think michael is always very, very kind to donald trump in saying that he has some kind of agenda that's beyond xenophobia. if he does it is very inco-harnlt. i'm a little this questioning, that there is an anti-establishment feeling. we know what bernie sanders wants. a lot of democratic party, let's be honest, they want it too. they want single payer. they want to expand social security. they want debt-free college. they are sick of the student loans for students. hillary clinton supports some of it. we'll see how much she supports. on the other hand, donald trump is playing to the worst of the republican base. and really bringing out that xenophobia and nativism. and that will be a problem i think for the entire field. if he really keeps poking that horn ept's nest. >> i don't think we have an immigration policy. he is saying we don't have one. he is being too ethnic about it. nobody is taking responsibility. >> a big difference between sanders and trump. sanders has an ideology. trump does not. this is not a coherent message. >> what -- >> i've seen trump on the trail. >> wait a minute. explain his gut attitude. what are people rallying to him for? >> it is a stew of populism a little national i, anger, frustration, and he has real touch. i've seen him with voters on the trail. he is really good. >> and again, it is not a question of being kind to trump. it is recognizing what he's able to do. >> let me try something. i've been thinking about it all day. i want to try it with you, a progressive. could it be a length of strength at the top of these tickets? hillary will be there a while. she's been there a long time. the current political exseem to have no guts at the top. everybody is mealy mouthed. i don't know who the big tough leader. let's talk republicans. i don't think there's a strong person at the top of the republican polling. i see jeb hanging on there by name i.d. eight out of nine republicans reject him. they know who he is and they're saying no. who is the leader of the republican party who could beat trump? >> i think again these two parties are very, very different. hillary clinton is enormously popular. >> talk republicans. >> i'm not sure. i'm not sure. i think jeb bush has been slow to denounce the mexican comments even though his wife is mexican and his kids are of mexican descend. i think he came out today and said something. they have a real problem. >> it sounds hike dukakis. >> joan has a point. i would say, excuse me mr. trump, my wife is a mexican. she's not a criminal. >> jeb is not looking to get drawn into that discussion. number one. number two, as much as you want to say who is the leader on the republican side, the democrats have their own frustrations. because if they didn't 10,000 people wonderful show up to see hillary. >> come on michael. >> they want him to be president? those 10,000 people? >> it's an question of wanting him to be president. he is channeling elizabeth warren. he is channeling that wing. party who hillary has not spoken to. >> can i speak if only as a badger. i went to madison. you can get 10,000 people for a very left wing person. i love bernie sanders. who knows, i could vote for him. but you can turn out 10,000 people for a progressive in madison. >> that doesn't explain the 5,000 in iowa the 3,000 in new hampshire. >> those are decent crowds. >> to obama's point, there is a movement out there on the democratic side. >> you talk on every single presidential campaign of the republicans, they're not even calculating that. they think he is going on flame out. >> by when? yesterday the former candidate himself george pataki wrote a letter. all of them urging them to take down trump. he wrote, as donald trump doubles down i'm asking to you join me in standing up. stand up for our party. stand up now. deannounce his comments today. here was trump's comments. he said governor pataki couldn't be elected dog catcher if he ran again so he didn't. so my question i want to ask you about bernie. you say you vote for him. do people really see him as chief execive? the person in charge of the cia, the u.s. military the marines. do they see him in that role? or do they see him as an ideological avatar. not to have the job of chief executive, commander in chief. i don't think anybody is thinking commander in chief bernie sanders. >> i think there are very few thinking that. i think some of his die hard supporters think that. i wrote today about the late michael harrington who i admire greatly. he would be thrilled to see the american media advancing american socialism right now. they hate hillary clinton but also because they do want a horse race. no one is really subjecting bernie sanders to the scrutiny he would get if he were a really serious candidate who had a real chance of toppling her. so i think there is a weird double standard going on. as a progressive, i'm glad his ideas are out there and he gets on explain them. no, i don't think people are saying what is his policy syria? what would he do there? that's not what this is about. >> you invoked the name harrington. he taught jack kennedy about poverty. >> bernie sanders, u.s. senator. a committee chairman. when you talk to his people they say he's met the threshhold to be commander in chief. treat him with respect. >> since the letter imploring the field to fire trump, we've seen several candidates do it or try to. >> i don't need a letter from governor pataki. i said from day one that when you label a group of people as drug dealers, it is more about you than it is them. what trump said says more about trump than anybody else. >> i don't think he is reflecting the republican party with his statements about mexicans. i think that was a huge error on his part. and number one, it is wrong. we want somebody that has dealt with this before. not somebody that will shoot from the hip. >> comments are inappropriate. they have no place in the race. and jeb bush tried to knock him down a bit by saying his views are not reflective of the immigrant experience. i don't spend a lot of time going over the trump message. do you think that's elitist? >> not elitist. it is just indirect. i think jeb should be a little less nice and polite. he can relate to it personally. he turns to his wife. trump. are you calling my wife -- >> and kids. george sr. said the little brown ones. this is an ethnic assault on his family. >> i think this affords him an opportunity to do that. to your first question who will be the leader here? >> no one wants a sista soldier moment. >> i see a weakness at the top of your list. there is a lot of interesting candidates here. like lindsey graham who will never be president. what i see is a real problem finding a leader here and trump is going for the title. that's what's interesting about it. he's not running -- now that he's lost those connections to the commercial his ship is burned. it is burned. he's on the beach. he has to win now. >> it should have happened when he was preaching birtherism to be honest. >> there is something we can go back on. why didn't anybody blow the whistle on this guy when he called the president an illegal immigrant? thank you, everybody, have a great independence. fourth of july is coming on strong. and we're going to have to celebrate it tomorrow. college up president obama says he's led a new reagan revolution. he says he's transformed the country. now he's looking at hillary clinton to complete the job. i wonder how she likes the job? plus the president's best week ever is turning into the best month ever. he just knocked another big victory on the economy. the unemployment rate is way down. jobs are way up. they're touting it in the backyard of one of his critics say. scott walker. obama is sticking it to him. and the country is on heightened alert. law enforcement says there is no specific or credible threat. this year there's new concern because of the rise of isis. finally, let me finish with a statement. a sentiment that is both progressive. a sentiment very much american. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? 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is he living up to his promise to be a transformative enough to keep the white house under democratic control for another four years after his eight years. i'm joined by ruth marcus. can obama be a democratic reagan, meaning hits the history books as someone who change history? >> no is the short answer. the longer answer is in terms of having an effect on the country, the type of effect that we heard the president talk about, changing the direction of the country, creating there working majority. we haven't seen it happen in the first six years of his presidency and we won't see it in the remaining time. that's not to say he won't have an important legacy and a reasonably good shot at being succeeded for the first time since reagan by his successor of his own party after two terms. but he's not transformative. >> reagan didn't create a republican congress. he didn't change politics. >> he cemented it. obama does not leave office having created a new vision of a democratic party or what he talked about in that clip which is a country that somehow transformed by his presidency and united and brought together. didn't happen. >> i disagree but go ahead. >> the conceptual frame is completely ronald reagan. it is not barack obama. you can't think of that bumper sticker of big ideas that are the democratic party's that came from barack obamaful i think what is interesting about this is he is telegraphing to his people that they'd better get in line and be helpful to her and at the same time he is telegraphing to her, wait a second. i have the ability to box you in and tweak you a little bit. your husband wasn't much. you won't be that much. >> let's try a couple things. bill clinton supported the iraq war. he supported the first gulf war from what i can tell. hillary supported the iraq war. obama came along and said we're not the hawks and he transformed the party. i would say that's transformative to me. >> at the point by which she might have been president eight years ago, hillary clinton also had a different point of view. george w. bush was the one who transform the outlook of the democratic party when it comes to foreign entanglements. >> but hillary agreed with him. >> hillary agreed with barack obama -- >> no. she agreed with w. >> but eventually she agreed with barack obama what does eventually mean? when the decision is made is when it matters. >> what i'm saying is that barack obama and his anti-war view the party at that point. the democratic party had transformed itself into an anti-war party. >> okay. fair enough. he became the leader. >> he is pretty global. this is not somebody -- >> that's new. >> this is somebody who wanted to get out of iraq and afghanistan. we're still there and going back into iraq. we've had a drone war across the world. we are getting into more and more foreign entanglements. this is not somebody who transform the democratic party. >> let me try it another way. i hear you. certainly he's made the party much more open to the arab world. he's been trying cynic the cairo speech. to try to final peace over there. he's changed that. secondly, he said we're a free trading party. going beyond bill clinton saying we'll an free trading party whether the democrats like it or not. certainly on environment. he will never sign the key stone deal. ever. we'll open to cuba instead of keeping the cold war going. we'll to go cuba and open our relations to that country. i'm not hubert humphrey. not even jack kennedy. >> i don't think he's led the party. he didn't transform the democratic party. he just went out and made a deal with john boehner. >> but now we have a trade policy. >> two different questions. will barack obama leave the presidency with a significant legacy on many of the thing that you mentioned? yes, he will. i think his legacy will be very significant. that's different from having been transformative. either for his party. >> let's look at the initial prop session we started. with he said he will lay the ground work for a long term democratic leadership in the white house. if you look at president obama's current approval ratings, they're not far from where ronald reagan was six and a half years into his presidency. according to the gallup poll. cnn's most recent poll has president obama's approval rating up at 50. there you have a president in good enough shape to help get the democrats elected again like reagan. you have to transform to something. what i thought was interesting, i need hillary to be a success as president. unless you have a successor who buys your act, you age a transform i have the president. i thought that was the interesting point and it probably bothers the clinton people, oh, that's our job. >> he didn't even say hillary. >> your cute line he said whoever that successor is. he didn't say hillary clinton. joe biden would be comparable to bush 41. >> the president has a clear interest in having the democratic successor who will happen to be hillary clinton as the nominee. because he is completely right. there are lots of pieces of business smaller pieces of business that are unfinished. big pieces of business that can be undone. thinking about what could happen with obamacare. he has a huge interest in seeing her or whoever might be the nominee elected. >> the difference between me and you two people i think obama has been an amazing president and i think he has been a transformative president. i think he's been different than all we've had today. i think he is much more outward looking about trade and environment and climate change. he is look