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council that has a leadership that emerges that is respected by all of these clans and tribes. the country, as you rightfully point out, has been a -- has 41 tribal leaders, all of whom probably want to get their hands on some of that money from the oil revenue. and we know through history that leaderless democratic revolutions don't succeed. so how the leadership in the guise of the current interim leader, mustafa jaleel, if they can transform this anti-gadhafi euphoria into a pro-libya movement that is patient. the biggest problem is that the libyan's face right now, i was supposed to meet with the libyan's ambassador before gadhafi's kpr, and that's what they need now more than anything. their hospitals are overflowing with patients that are wounded, that have lost limbs. if the interim government does not show that it can get to the
this transitional state. but first, of course, the rebels have to stop being rebels, easier said than done, frequently, and start acting like a government, which we all know, is easier said than done. it won't be easy, after eight months of continuous fighting, there are multiple armed groups throughout libya who are certain to demand a significant stake in whatever the new government is. it's something secretary of state hillary clinton is raising a red flag over. >> they have to try to unify the country, unify all the militias under a unitary command, they have to disarm a lot of people who have acquired the thousands of weapons that gadhafi had stockpiled. >> well, there's a lot of implications to consider moving forward. there's a lack of structure in libya, there's the possibility of revenge killings, in any nation, coming through this level of trauma. plus, what the impact of the death itself will have on the wider arab spring. again, all of these things happen not in a vacuum, but in
premise. we can actually do better as a result of what the libyans need rather than have to provide foreign assistance to a country that can ill-afford it. remember, jimmy, libya's one of the wealthiest countries in the world. they can pay for what the united states taxpayer doesn't have to pay for. >> did i mention halfway, let's do both. >> well, of course! >> of course. >> listen, i'm as much in favor as seeing the american worker back at work than i am worried about anyone else, but that doesn't mean that the american worker is going to lose a job because they got a job doing construction worker in libya. >> interesting and provocative ideas, marc. thank you very much. and again, it's worth taking a trip to "the huffington post" to take a gander at that. karen, susan, jimmy, we'll talk to you next week. straight ahead here, he was one of the world's most eccentric leaders, the rise and fall of the mad dog the dictator, moammar gadhafi. you name it.
people how to vote. think about that. these people have not had any democracy for over 42 years. and so this is something we have -- we can be helpful and we should be helpful, as we start looking at what is best for libya going forward. >> i am -- first of all, it's a pleasure to meet you. it's nice to know that richard engel is going to have some help on the foreign beat. i'm sure he'll be happy to have that. give us the context of the ripples. if you are in damascus, if you are in -- if you are assad and you are watching this, and you've been watching the dominos fall, what is going on in the minds of those who are vulnerable in the middle east tonight? >> well, if i was mind-set of president assad, the first thing you don't want to happen is for the conflict to be internationalized. one of the things that happened both in libya and egypt, when the conflict went internationally, the momentum completely shifts. and this is what's so troubling about what we're seeing in syria. right now the regime is able to
what's next for a people whose binding tie was freeing themselves from gadhafi's rule? and for more on it, we bring in our specialist, former ambassador marc ginsberg. let me point you the rosiest scenario i can conjure and you can tell me how far away i am. 22% of all of italy's oil comes from libya. 16% of all of france's oil comes from libya. about 13% of all spain's oil comes from libya. and there's only a few million people that live there, as susan del percio was just telling me. perhaps libya will become the new saudi arabia as the world's wealthiest new oil state and become friends to all who would care to be friends with them. how far away from any sort of a reality of a nation is this country let alone a wealthy and powerful oil nation that is loved by the world? >> dylan, before gadhafi, there was a king. he was the leader of that country until gadhafi overthrew
concentrated in too few people at the top. gadhafi maintained political power by brute force. but he also accumulated immense economic power by commandeering the vast natural resources of libya. the result was abject poverty in most quarters of libya and excessive wealth among the autoplutocrats at the top. there's a warning in there for us. our american democracy was founded on the principle that power must be separated and diffused between different branches of government, executive, legislative, and judicial, and all power ultimately originates with the people. that's enshrined in our constitution. but starting in the early 20th century, we evolved to apply this concept of diffusing power to our capitalist market system as well. in the wake of oil, lumber, and railroad monopolies, the trust-busters like teddy roosevelt pushed through new laws that redefined the rules of the road in capitalism. economic power, like political power, cannot be concentrated in
his violent crackdown and response sparked a civil war and international involvement. still, for gadhafi, a libya without him is unimaginable. saying this in his last interview with the u.s. media outlet. >> they love me, all my people with me, they love me, all. >> in reality, libya was ready for the end of gadhafi, and it came in that drainage ditch outside of sirte. we'll be right back. 4g-- the next evolution in wireless technology. with advanced power, the verizon 4g lte network makes your business run faster:
and secretary of state hillary clinton and the rest of the foreign policy team had the right judgment in not taking a cookie cutter approach to libya and understanding how important it would be that if we got to this point, that this victory would be from the libyan people. not because the united states came in and bigfooted. >> and the interesting thing, jimmy, as somebody who obviously is a vicious critic of this administration on banking and health care and all this sort of domestic policy, this has to be very good politically for the obama camp and president obama's leadership team, to be able to pin up moammar gadhafi next to osama bin laden and just sort of run down that list after having watched watch both george w. bush and dick cheney, under the sort of real saber-rattling of the republican party and all the tough-guy stuff, and then it's the guy from harvard's that's picking off all the bad guys.
just by seeing how everybody's connecting around the singularity of breach of fairness, regardless what their point of origin is. it's wonderful to see you, matt. and chai ling, it's an absolute pleasure to meet you. you carry some incredible messages, and i feel it's a privilege to hear you and give other people the opportunity. wishing you all the best. coming up here on "hardball," the fight on the right between rick perry and mitt romney. chris asking whether it's helping president obama or harming mitt romney. but next, absolute power corrupts absolutely. david goodfriend with his daily rant on the lessons we can all learn from libya. but with advair, i'm breathing better so now i can take the lead on a science adventure. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator,
libyan people the urgent support that they need, you can watch what will happen. it will be sort of this islamic charity bowl organizations proliferating around the country. >> karen, go ahead. >> so we were talking about, mr. bas ado ambassador, about the politics of this. we've barely begun in the 2012 cycle and heard some pretty whacky stuff from the president. but clearly, whoever is the next president, whether president obama is re-elected or one of the pizza crew gets in, is going to have to figure out a strategy to deal how do we engage with libya. what should we be listening for in the debate? i mean, what -- what you just described seems very complicated and very easy for us to get mired in very quickly. what's the right approach and what should we, as voters be listening for? >> well, karen, the most important thing to remember here is not like the other arab spring countries. there's a great deal of reservoir of pro-americanism