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Ayman

>> yeah, so here's the thing with that, according to legal experts, that's not actually a defense that will hold any water. legal experts say that there is little legal merit to that argument, particularly since the breadth of steps taken by the ex president and his allies to overturn the election transformed near speech into action. trump isn't being indicted for what he said about the 2020 election. he's actually being indicted for what he did, allegedly engaging in a criminal conspiracy to overturn the will of american voters. trump's first amendment fallacy isn't just a shaky defense in the courtroom, there is actually a growing risk that his views will term silent could derail candidate trump and all of this could be before it even gets to hit the campaign trail and current. earlier this, week prosecutors from the special counsel's office put forward a proposed trial date, landing on january 2nd. however, during friday's hearing, judge chutkan cautioned that the more either

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>> criminalizing speech for this reason. what the president saw in the 2020 election was all these irregularities going on. >> he had every right to comment on that and act politically. you are entitled to question whether it was honest about. that was the uniqueness of the first amendment. that is the uniqueness of america. but you know what? you shouldn't be prosecuted for your thoughts. >> yeah, so here's the thing with that, according to legal experts, that's not actually a defense that will hold any water. legal experts say that there is little legal merit to that argument, particularly since the breadth of steps taken by the ex president and his allies to overturn the election transformed near speech into action. trump isn't being indicted for what he said about the 2020 election. he's actually being indicted for what he did, allegedly engaging in a criminal conspiracy to overturn the will of american voters. trump's first amendment fallacy isn't just a shaky defense in the courtroom, there is actually a growing risk that his views will term silent could derail candidate trump and all of this could be before it even gets to hit the

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lawyers in this country, i want to get your thoughts on trump's legal defense in this indictment. trump and his lawyers have cited his first amendment rights as a defense strategy against the criminal charges that he is facing in conspiring to overturn the election. in your expert opinion, is that a viable strategy? >> completely bogus as a legal strategy, because he is not being punished for his thoughts, his speeches, it was entirely free to say. and he is entirely free to say it. as long as he lives, that he thinks the election was stolen from him. what he is not free to do is to conspire with others to commit various crimes. like submitting false electoral states. orchestrating an overthrow of the government. that is not speech, that is action, that is conduct. and it is, there is no basis at all for this legal offense. but it plays well on tv, that

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better in 2020, the election was rigged. so we'll be back and will be taking any chances. will be up over the country. over 50 points, that's a lot. but we don't want to take any chances. we'll be back. >> so as i was saying, there is an interesting dilemma here. i mean, if the judge does sign off on the prosecutor's proposal date for this trial, january 2nd, it could affect his ability to campaign ahead of the states caucuses, which are scheduled right now for january the 15th. how do you think the trial will play generally, will it disrupt trump's campaign. is this going to have an actual material impact on his ability to campaign? even if it doesn't necessarily impact his standing with voters? >>, right and this is just one of many. right? i mean, there is the federal -- this is the second federal -- one state indictment, and another one probably coming next week. so yeah, i mean, look, he is going to play this politically. it has worked with the gop base so far. the other candidate, you know, with the person who was his

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it's not so important that a former research assistant of mine evidently didn't have any moral compass or conscience. >> so speaking of dismantling democracy, and that just security article you write, quote, removing the guardrails of electoral counts act as chesebro sought to do could ravenously endanger our entire system of self government under law. do you fear that chesebro and other trump allies have now laid the groundwork for another future attempt to overturn unfavorable election results. but they may have learned where the safety valves are. and next time around know how to manipulate the system and exploit the loopholes? >> absolutely. this was a dry run. and it is true that next time around, trump is not going to be president, not in november of 24, he won't have the tools

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indict the ex president and others, tuesday evening, to be specific. willis is expected to begin her presentation to grand jurors on monday. we're gonna have more on this breaking development later in the show. but we first begin with a reality check for the now the thrice indicted ex president. donald trump, quote, as a criminal defendant. he's gonna have restrictions like any other criminal defendant. those were the words of judge tanya chutkan. the federal judge overseeing special counsel jack smith's election interference case against trump, and in hearing yesterday that she rejected trump's request to be able to speak more broadly and publicly about the investigation. in a new protective order, chutkan limited the ex president and attorneys from publicly discussing, any, quote, sensitive material -- that includes, quote, any personally identified information concerning witnesses. information that had emerged from a grand jury. and any materials turned over

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of sweet tomatoes and smooth, silky zucchini. knorr taste combos. it's not fast food, but it's soooo good. ♪ ♪ my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. >> of all the trump indictments, the election interference charges address the most fundamental threat he has posed to american democracy. and that is because, as david cohen writes in mother jones, his alleged crime was not trump's doing alone, millions of accomplices, all those americans who bought his bogus claims about the election. now trump was only able to promote the biggest con of his career because there was an audience of republican voters who believed his bunk. now, corn continues, trump is not the main danger.

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Ayman

so the narrative that trump is trying to tell when he says, i am being indicted for you, you are in danger. they might come for you next,, that is just projection. the person who might come for you next is trump. and those under his command. that is what is at stake. and that is why it is so dangerous that lawyers like chesebro and those who co conspired with him and with trump are still on the loose, haven't lost their law licenses yet, although they are being investigated. and they might be disciplined by the bar. it is entirely possible that they won't be held fully accountable. now i do think that they are likely to be indicted by fani willis next week. i would expect some of these lawyers will be, maybe they will be indicted by jack smith in separate indictments. but it's very important that they be held accountable so that they can't do it again and others undeterred. >> seeing that you are one of the most prominent constitutional scholars and

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and i expect that he will have trouble following guidance here. because i think he is going to take notes, i think he's gonna write down personally identifying information. and i think it is gonna be very hard for him not to attack the key witnesses when he is on the campaign trail. and then i think judge chutkan is going to have to find a way to enforce it, and i think he is already hinted about what her remedy will be. >> molly, there are two courts that this trial is taking place in. one is the actual court itself, d. c.. the other is the court of public opinion. i mentioned that legal experts view trump's first amendment defense when it comes to his election interference efforts. they pretty much dismissed that -- they know it is not really a legal argument. but with that argument play in court of public opinion? >> so i think it's interesting, because you are seeing trump world -- they have decided they are

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republicans who are supporting him. all these other republicans who are saying the things that matt gaetz is saying or the thing things that ron desantis is saying. we really are seeing a republican party that has been taken over by trump. so there are very few adults in the room very -- asa hutchinson, chris christie. largely, we have a group of republicans who really are turned against democracy. have embraced authoritarianism. hold up countries like hungary as the model of how they want to live. and that is quite scary for american democracy. and it's really -- i think this election -- i mean that, using the trump term, i don't think trump thinks this as a term. i think trump thinks of this, as i don't know what he needs. >> more for him a coronation -- if he does get it, i don't

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