0 behind closed doors. when he said he kept them in there without them being able to leave, talk about minimizing. he kidnapped them, held them captive for 11 years and tortured them. that's not letting them leave. >> this is something he really wanted to litigate and as a reporter i've encountered this but also encountered this, talking to folks who are survivors of sexual assault, particularly. the abuser or rapist genuinely does not realize after it happened that they forced themselves, committed rape. they're unaware of the violation because they're disconnected from the humanity and subjectivity of the person they were abusing. if he wanted to convince the court this sex was consensual, though he pled to it not being so, and all of us understand it could not be. >> sure. the most telling thing about this was he allowed these women to keep diaries, chris. if you go through those diaries, you find a day-by-day account of the very horrific things that they endured. just to take a read of those things, i wonder if ariel castro reads those diaries with the same eye that investigators would. that these women were really taking to these writings and crying out for help. that they did not want to submit themselves in this way. he took them at the point in their lives where they were learning to be intimate. these were children that he took. i want to tell you something else. just like someone who does this in the course of a marriage or another intimate relationship, he chose women who he thought were the most vulnerable. he chose people who he thought society would not miss. he chose people who he thought were disconnected, that he could keep inside of this house and no one would look for them. he was wrong about that. he was also wrong about something else about these women. their will to fight. >> yeah. >> cindy, the fact this was trying, at another point he was saying, look, i was a musician, he was around. this gets to the two facedness of the real evil that happens in domestic violence and behind closed doors. people that have relationships with co-workers and friends and family and people have no idea that in their intimate lives, with the women in their lives when they're capable of. >> i agree completely. i think this is such an extreme case, but it is so common that domestic violence abusers, stalkers, perpetrators of sexual violence, they can be charming and swath and fabulous co-workers, friends and relatives and believe it's their inherent god-given right to control their partners day in, day out, what they wear, who they talk to, what they do. hi targeted women. it doesn't matter how vulnerable you are. i've seen women who have ph.d.s and medical degrees and you name it. it's because the partner believes it's their right to control them all the time. and this is such a bizarre case. i mean, his point about consensual sex, there is no way to mix 90 pounds of chains and captivity for 11 years and consensual sex. those are completely preposterous. >> i want to play the one moment when there was a tiny, slight pin prick of empathy in me as i watched this awful statement was him talking about himself, saying that he had been a victim of sexual abuse, himself. take a listen. >> i've stated before that i was a victim of sex acts when i was a child. this led me into -- these people are trying to paint me as a monster and i'm not a monster. i'm sick. >> it seemed like a weird way the most honest thing that he said, but also this weird kind of distancing approach to medicalize so that he did not have to take moral responsibility, goldie, and yet there was some part of me that when i considered, i flashed before my brain, a child being abused that there was this opening up of empathy. maybe this bizarre hope that there's actually some possibility of redemption in the long life that he's going to spend behind bars. >> sure. i know there's a man out there who stabbed me in my back, chris, but i know today, and i knew even then he had been abused as a child. hurt people hurt other people. if you poll the men and women in our penal system today, those people will over-report that they were victims of violence. victims of violence against their person, by they parents, by other -- their parents' intimate partners. this thing plays itself out generationally. i'm certain ariel castro was being very honest when he said he was a victim of sexual abuse as a child. that does not absolve him of the criminality of this. >> when you think of one in three girls, one in six boys will be a victim of child sexual abuse before they're 18. one in three women, or one in six men, are not perpetrating crimes against people every day. so the majority of victims are resilient and strong and fabulous and live wonderful lives and don't hurt anyone. so he made intentional choices to do these horrific acts, and while i feel bad for the small child he was, there's no excuse. >> i agree. that was why it was amazing to see michelle knight stand in that courtroom and deliver that statement and to think about the unbelievable resilience of the human spirit and what it is able to live through and conquer and redeem. msnbc contributor goldie taylor, and cindy southworth of the national network to end domestic violence. really a pleasure. thank you. >> thank you, chris. >> thank you. you know if you want to fudge a grade on a report card, any school kid can tell you a "c" turns into a "b" so easily. a top education commissioner allegedly changed a "c" into an "a" and his sloppy overreach is exposing the corruption of wealthy donors in the education reform industry. that's next. a contractor before and didn't know where to start. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. no company can pay to be on angie's list, so you can trust what you're reading. angie's list is like having thousands of close neighbors, where i can go ask for personal 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