>> a straw of hope. >> the best lead they' had in 13 days. >> for that missing malaysia air padgett. >> two satellite photos of debris floating in the indian ocean. >> what could be debris from the missing boeing 777. >> the general belief that this was a very big break. >> about 1,500 southwest of perth, australia. >> and they were going to find something relatively quickly. >> so far, nothing has turned up. >> this is a massive, massive area. >> it's been called the most isolated part of the world. >> literally in the middle of nowhere. >> citing something on satellite and finding it from ship or plane in the ocean are two very different things. >> this is the worst possible location. >> choppy seas, rainy, cloudy. >> and the worst time of year to have to look for aircraft debris. >> there's a laundry list of challenges here. >> this is going to take a lot of time. it will require patience. >> families of the 239 passengers and crew are anxiously waiting. >> they just want to know what's happened. >> families who have been through an incredible ordeal. >> they have been waiting through all these days. >> their hopes having dashed and raised and dashed again. >> now they have to rate again. >> we must never, never give up hope. >> good evening to you. i am ari melbur in for lawrence odom. it's the middle of nowhere. it could take years. that is the warning about the search for flight 370. these images were taken on sunday which show what could be debris from the missing plane. one of the suspected pieces is 79 feet in length. the other is smaller, it's estimated to be about 16 feet and may also be a piece of debris. so why are we just now seeing these images? digital globe, the company that took them told cnbc this volume of imagery is far to vast to search floug real time. instead they relied on crowd sourcing volunteers. the companies say those number in the millions, which helped rule out broad swaths of the ocean. while those volunteers and professionals continue to hunt, investigators are honing in on this pinpointed search location in some of the world's most desolate ocean. the nts sb has previously said this was an area of special interest and that's because it's sort of in an intersection of where the jet could run out of fuel and six related satellite pings. this bolsters the theory after making the 20 degree turn to the west, flight 370 went south into the indian ocean. right now at least four aircraft are scouring the area. a norwegian cargo ship is also there and on the lookout for any possible debris. after enduring high ocean swells and visibility problems yesterday, conditions in the area are improving, but only slightly. just to reach the sight, in fact, each plane must fly nearly 1,500 miles each way. that's equivalent from about denver to new york. what does that mean? well, after getting into the area, each plane only has about three hours of actual search time left before it must turn right back around. family members of the passengers who were onboard flight 370 are no doubt watching these developments closer than anyone. >> translator: i feel very sad. i cannot run away from it. i accept everything. whatever the result, whether alive or dead. >> now for more reporting aempb insight into all of this, we turn to kerry sanders in our washington bureau tonight. how are you? >> ari, there is a fair amount of hope that the new wave of aircraft that are heading back out to that location may find what the first set of eyes and equipment did not find, confirmation of that debris. so right now we have two 3-3 orion class aircraft that are over that area. its's 10:00 here on the east coast. it's 10:00 a.m. there in the morning. they are also accompanied by a civilian gulf stream aircraft. and they have the able to use some onboard electronics to look in this general suspect area. later today there will be another p-3 leaving, and then finally, perhaps the most advanced piece of equipment which will leave several hours from now, which is going to be the p-8. that is from the u.s. navy. that is the poseidon class aircraft. that has the most advanced electronics. now, there is some weather in the area. the p-8 is not affected by weather. the gear can see through that weather. and the bottom line is that these aircraft with their gear onboard are designed to search for submarines. this is for anti-submarine warfare. they're now deploying this equipment over the area to see if they can find that debris floating on the surface or maybe even just below the surface. i'm going to take a map here and take you down to the area that we're looking at. so as you look at the map here, and i just sort of telestrate, that's the general area that you see marked there where they're flying out to. the debris was actually found on the satellite a little bit further to the south. now, we can call it debris because we know it's something that doesn't belong there. we just don't know if it's the aircraft debris. remember n this part of the world, there are these ocean currents that travel in these directions and they're called gyres. and they actually capture garbage in the water and they just flow round and round. what we may discover is when they do, if they do locate this, that it has nothing to do with the aircraft. but this is the most hopeful sign that they've had so far. remember, let's take you back 24 hours. this is when the authorities from australia went forward and announced, the prime minister announcing that what they have seen is the most promising lead of where this debris might be. >> yeah, and that's a lead not taking us where we would like to go. thank you so much for your reporting tonight. for more, we are joined again by robert hager, retired nbc news aviation analyst. i want to start with an interview with a former malaysian airlines pilot who actually flew this very aircraft. take a listen. >> cockpit voice recorder will be the one that will tell you what happened in the cockpit. 17 days to look for the thing. >> is time running out? >> time is running out, yeah. because the batteries, the potential location for the box seems to be very, very inhospitable. >> we talked about this before. it's not an exact, hard deadline. walk us through this. >> well, the spec says it goes 30 days but often times it goes longer than that. occasionally 35 or so forth. but occasionally picked it up where it was well over 35 days. so there is some hope of an elapsed time. and then they have found flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders in the past without the ping. i mean, long after the ping has run out. the poster child for that is the air france accident off brazil five years ago. and it took them two years to find that flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder. then it was very valuable when they did find it. >> we're going to be talking to a specialist about that experience and what it offers today. i also want to talk to you about specifically the weather situation. we just did some reporting on that obviously. the search conditions, mostly cloudy with light showers, winds from the east 10 to 20 miles an hour. australian officials say visibility is still pour. these waves, 5 to 10 feet and what they call eddying currents. enormous waves that can go 20 feet or higher. this is not, of course, tom, a normal weather kind of prediction here. this is weather that has a potential impact on this important search. >> well, yeah. this is probably the worst weather region on earth. and when you're talking about nine foot swells and 30 foot waves and winds up to 25 to 35 knots, you're talking about something that you can't find debris with just your eyes. you have to have radar. and we can be encouraged by the intensity of the focus on this satellite image. the mystery is eating away at people. and it's a human tragedy. the next phase is the human dimension of this drama. and it's excruciating. >> speak to that, what do you mean? >> well, the people from china whose loved ones who are on this flight. they are not a sophisticated people. they're middle class, lower middle class people who have never been on a vacation. this is something that's new to them and all of a sudden it disappears. why did it disappear? the rumors about the pilot going rogue or an intervention, a hijacking, this drives people crazy. >> i would argue your level of sophistication or education may not matter that much when you're dealing with something that's so hair rowing, so terrible. i know plenty of people who are sophisticated and highly educated and they get very scared when they go on plains even though they know the statistics that the highway may be more dangerous. you're in a tube flying over this earth and it has this feeling of what could happen. as to some of these allegations and conspiracies about the pilots, i also want to play for you something discussing in a rueters interview, the significance of the fact that the pie plot had this flight simulator. let's listen to that. >> he has never hidden the fact that he has a simulator at his house. it's in facebook, everybody is proud of it. and i've been invited many times to try it out but have not had the chance. i've asked him before why he built the simulator in his home. it's because that is his hobby. he enjoys flying and he wants to share the joy of flying with his friends and having a simulator at home is just the perfect way to do it. >> so that's the perspective of a friend who is obviously sympathetic to the pilot. but again, put it in context for people who don't know this as a part of pilot hobby. shall we read anything into the fact that there's a simulator? >> no, i wouldn't think so. you have to find something when you go into the hard drive, find something suspicious. the fact that he has a simulator in the house, that works for me. some pilots want to relax when they're offduty, but others are just so into it they want to play with these things. i have so many friends who have these simulators just because they're nuts about them. they love them. >> that's an important context. some people thought that was it, just the fact that it exists. we haven't seen that be the case. thanks for your time tonight. appreciate it. >> sure. >> coming up, we have the man who led the search for air france flight 447 in the atlantaic. joins us to talk about what it will take to locate the plane in the indian ocean, as i mentioned earlier. and someone finally asked chris christie why did he fire bridget kelly. it was a constituent in a town hall and he joins us for a "last word" exclusive. no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... not so much. but that's okay. you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? >> for a little perspective, it took two years, millions of dollars and help from a nuclear submarine to recover air france flight 447 when it crashed in 2009. and in that case, searchers found the wreckage of the plane just a few days after it crashed. the man who helped find it, he joins us next. when does your work end? does it end after you've expanded your business? after your company's gone public? and the capital's been invested? or when your company's bought another? is it over after you've given back? you never stop achieving. that's why, at barclays, our ambition is to always realize yours. 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[ mom ] why use more, when you can use less. new bounty. the no-quit picker-upper. flight 307 has now been missing for 14 days. the longest period for a missing plane in modern aviation history. the search for possible debris is about 1,500 miles west of australia. this is an area of open water that runs up to three miles deep. if the jetliner went down in this remote part of the indian ocean and if any debris is found, it may no the be anywhere near the possible crash site beneath the surface. that's because things move very fast on the ocean surface. median ocean current feet is about a foot per second. an object moves about 16 miles a day. this plane has been missing for two weeks. so any potential debris could have traveled 224 miles in any direction. that was an issue in the last major aviation investigation of this type, air france flight 447 which crashed off the coast of brazil in 2009. investigators found debris from that flight five days after it vanished from radar about 30 miles away from the point of impact. it only took five days to find floating debris from flight 447 but it took another two years to find the main crash site on the ocean floor. the search for that air france flooigt is any indication, the search for missing malaysian airlines plane has only just begun. joining me now is the man who helped find air france 447, the director of special projects at the oceangraphic institute. debris may have traveled hundreds of miles away from the potential impact site, how do you search for that kind of thing? >> well, you've got to start by looking at some of that debris if it is, in fact, from the aircraft. and then, you know, it's not just the debris itself, it's the shape of the debris. people that backtrack that kind of stuff want to know is it like a sailboat with a piece sticking up, or is it more like an iceberg with a keel. or is it somewhere in between? it's a very elaborate scientific model being used to backtrack those things. we're getting near the edge of the envelope where, you know, the models are going to start becoming less and less accurate rapidly. >> yeah, and how does the depth of the water and the terrain compare to basically where your team actually found that wreckage of the air france flight? >> sure. air france was about -- the terrain was extremely rupged, probably the most mountainous -- rugged mountain terrain on the planet. with the greatest depth down to about 6,000 meters. in this case, it's an east-west trending underwater volcanic ridge. it's called the southeast indian ridge. and the top of it is about a mile and a half, and then on either side goes down to about three, four miles. it's a lotless rugged, though. so it's a smoother terrain. it still has its lumps and bumps but not as much as the france 447 terrain. >> we're talking about how this military equipment is being used but isn't designed explicitly for this purpose, which makes sense but also leaves you wondering okay, how good is it? can you give us any insight into that? how much of this equipment is tailored towards this kind of search? versus being sort of dual use? >> sure. i can't speak too much to the military hardware, but listening, i think the military hardware is mostly listening for the pinger and identifying objects on the surface of the ocean. you know, radar is pretty good. in terms of the scientific equipment, i can tell you that this is exactly what we do as scientists. in fact, there was a survey at the top of this very ridge. i don't know who did it yet. i'll check that out. these kinds of terrains and this kind of mapping is not unusual for us. except normally we're being driven by scientists asking questions. in this case it will be an investigator, a team of investigators asking questions. >> briefly, just compare this effort to the international cooperation in your effort. because we have seen both excitement and interest in people around the world trying to work on this but also a lot of frustration. >> in the early days of the air france 4477 investigation, there was a -- some similar confusion. we didn't join the fray until months later. but there was always that question about were we getting the right news and how much of it was misinformation. and was there something here behind the scenes that no one knew about. in the end, being on the inside of that circle, i can tell you that it's not easy to do the job you're supposed to do when the whole world is looking at you and criticizing your efforts. i've been there and not a pleasure. >> certainly not. and yet, at the same time, there's, you know, there's a great deal of concern when people look and they say even countries that are nominally allied and cooperative want to hold things back. they don't want to give up their security standing, that kind of stuff. thanks for joining us tonight. >> thank you, ari. coming up, president obama is this close to an iran nuclear deal. and vladimir putin is threatening to sabotage it, yes, over crimea and ukraine. that's next. ight damage your hair? 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[ male announcer ] be a weekender and bring your girls' weekend to life at hotels like hilton and doubletree. book now at hiltonweekends.com. >> as you and your families gather around the table, i want to extend my best wishes on this new spring and newee. i want to take this opportunity to speak directly to the people and leaders of the islamic public of iran. >> that was president obama today with a video message to iran's people and its leaders for the iranian new year, a tradition he started in 2009. >> when this season of new beginnings, i would like to speak clearly to iran's leaders. we have serious differences that have grown over time. my administration is now committed to diplomacy that addresses the full range of issues before us and continue ties between the united states, iran and the international community. this process will not be advanced by threats. we seek instead engagement that is honest and grounded in mutual respect. >> it's yielded did i have did he understand recently, but it was actually controversial at the time. quote, happy new year mullahs. obama's message of weakness was the headline back then. it's the same criticism, of course, levelled against president obama by his republican opponents in both of his presidential campaigns. >> senator obama without precondition wants to sit down and negotiate with them. without preconditions. that's what he stated again, a matter of record. >> one of the challenges we've had with iran is they looked at this administration and felt the administration was not as strong as they needed to be. i think they saw weakness where they had expected to find american strength. we're four years closer to a nuclear iran. >> of except we're not. >> nuclear deal. an historic agreement is preached with iran that president obama says will make the world more secure. >> for the first time in nearly a decade, we have halted the progress of the iranian nuclear program. >> that's exactly what president obama was able to recount in his message to his iranians today. diplomacy is tough, diplomacy can be slow, but it can also work. >> last fall i spoke with president romani. it was the first conversation between an american president and an iranian leader since 1979. since then, we've made progress. under the initial agreement we reached in november, the iranian government has agreed to limit key parts of its nuclear program. along with our international partners, the united states is giving iran some relief from sanctions. now we're engaged in intensive negotiations in the hopes of finding a comprehensive solution. >> that is progress, but now that solution could be jeopardized by this current standoff between the west and russia over ukraine. despite the events unfolding in crimea, all five permanent members of the u.n. security council, including russia, have continued with these scheduled talks on the iranian nuclear agreement this week in europe. but yesterday, russia's deputy foreign minister issued this worning, quote, we would not like to use these talks as an element of a stakes raising game, but if we are forced here, we will take the path of countermeasures, the historic value of what has happened in recent weeks and days from the point of view of restoring historical justice and reuniteding crimea with russia is uncomparable with what we're doing on iran. the decision is down to our colleagues in washington and brus sells. it 2k3e7bds on whether or not these talks will be successful whether or not we, that is russia, will take the path of countermeasures. that is the choice entirely on their side, not ours. now, this is a real problem. diplomatic observers are taking the warning very seriously. russia pulling out of the iran nuclear talks would undermine the yuan fined p-5 and russia could use its veto power to block enforcement mechanisms. nevertheless, the obama administration today announced sanction against 16 more russian government officials as well as a russian bank. joining us now for all of this is a former u.s. ambassador to the russian federation and msnbc distributor and a pulitzer prize winning reporter for rueters. welcome to you both. ambassador, first give us the context here as i've laid it out in this report. these threats, and how much danger there really is here of these sort of, the crimea problem spreading. >> well, it's very disturbing. because what you have from the deputy foreign minister is explicit linkage, that is if you don't stop harassing us, if you don't stop escalating in one front with respect to the crisis around ukraine, we are going to link our cooperation in iran. and in the fife years that i was in the obama administration working with the russians on iran and many other issues, we tried very hard to delink these issues. i think we were quite successful at it. this was a shot across the bow to see beware. i don't think they have as much leverage as they're threatening. i want to be clear about that. i think this negotiation is ultimate pli one between iran and the united states, but roar russia has made it clear they want to complicate things with this statement today. we care more about iran than crimea if it's limited as such. >> yes. and for obama politically, a deal with ivan the biggest element of his second-term foreign policy agenda. it's a very serious sbags. this is all about sanctions. obama was mocked during the campaign, but the u.s. with russia's help had the toughest economic sanctions ever against iran pit's cut off their oil supplies. that's what led to negotiations to get this far. and that's what obama is threatening to do to russia. it's all very high stakes, particularly for obama. >> let me go back to the ambassador on that point. when you look at russia and clearly putin's view of russia in a strong and expansionist mode, how much of his mindset has to do with russia as basically a free-reigning economic power with its allies including syria and some sway in iran potentially? and how much is just the fact that when we want to do anything through the u.n., russia has the veto? >> well, it's both. i point out a couple of important facts that david alluded to. we already have the u.n. security council resolution. it was 1929. i personally worked on it. it will not be overturned. we are not seeking new sanctions through the security council. and after that was past back in the spring of 2010, we, the united states, together with our european allies increased the financial sanctions that david was talking about. and that's what iran wants lifted. and russia can't lift that. that's something that's between us, the europeans and the iranians where russia can promise new trade, maybe could break the sanctions that's listed in the u.n. security council resolution, 1929. but that's peanuts compares to what they could get if we could get our sanctions lifted against them. >> what russia can do is they could have a barter agreement which would allow iran to sell all its oil to russia and help break the sanctions. and more importantly, one of the key things russia agreed to do was not sell very sophisticated long-range anti-aircraft missiles. they're called s-300 ease and that sale was frozen by putin in the past. and the russians if they went ahead with that sale it would make any attack against iran very dangerous. >> when we go back to your old boss president obama, how much is on his mind as something he has to worry about or have they put together in motion a set of sanctions they're going to put in motion without second guessing? >> i think they're very worried about it. this is the most important policy issue for the administration right now. own those threats that david alluded to, especially the sale of the s-300's koing change the balance of power there. but at the same time, the threat in europe is also very serious. i think it really changes the post cold war order in europe. so the president has to weigh the right strategy in both of these places without the right strategy in both tangling up where you get neither. effective strategy. >> yeah. i appreciate the point there. to say something that's bordering on glib, it's why these are tough jobs. obviously there's been a lot of talk about the president doing one thing different or sound tougher against pew tin. just how many parts of the map the security council has to keep in mind. thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> and coming up, we do have a "last word" exclusive. the man who finally asked the question everyone i think should have been asking chris christie about bridget kelly. did he like governor christie's answer? and two cases involving sexual assault in the military came to a close today. you may not have heard this with all the other international news. we're going to go into what happened and what does it mean for the attempts to change some of these laws? in the nation, it's not always pretty. but add brand new belongings from 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[ male announcer ] whatever the reason. whatever the dish. make it delicious with swanson. >> using comedy to promote obama care. if carney wanted to go on "funny or die" fine. but the president of the gritz? all i can tell you is abe lincoln would not have done it. >> now remember, bill o'reilly wrote a book about abe lincoln so he should know. yes, my friends, conservatives are still claiming to be worried that the president's highly rated interview with zach galifnaikis will demean the office. the president was finally asked about it in an espn interview today. >> one network suggested lincoln couldn't do this. it's obviously a different time. but you embrace young and different. why? >> well, first of all, if you read back on lincoln, he loved telling the occasional bawdy joke. being out among regular folks. and, you know, up with of the hardest things about being president is being in this bubble. that is artificial and unless you make a conscious effort, you start sounding like some washington stiff. >> it's true. lincoln was so well known as a jokester that in 1864, take a look at this, democrats circulated a novelty business card that promised that after he lost the election, he could go back to springfield and do what he was known for, quote, make joke, split rail fences and dispense law. of course, lincoln won, even with the jokes and kept on telling them in the white house. now coming up here on "the last word we have an exclusive interview with the man who confronted chris christie today and pressed him on why he really fired bridget kelly. >> the most frightening thing about being governor of new jersey is you have 65,000 people with letterhead with your name on it and you don't know what they're doing. i found that out in real time on what if my abdominal pain and cramps come back? what if the plane gets delayed? what if i can't hide my symptoms? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisinfo.com to get your complimentary q&a book, with information from experts on your condition. 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[ male announcer ] new glucerna advance. from the brand doctors recommend most. until you're sure you do. bartender: thanks, captain obvious. co: which is what makes using the hotels.com mobile app so useful. i can book a nearby hotel room from wherever i am. or, i could not book a hotel room and put my cellphone back into my pocket as if nothing happened. hotels.com. i don't need it right now. january 8. >> i was at a town hall meeting today. 525 people there and not one question on any of this stuff. people want me to do my job. i'm going to do my job. >> this stuff. that is governor chris christie's euphemism for the federal investigation into whether his top aids broke the law by closing the george washington bridge in a weird political revenge plot. and the investigation into whether his political allies broke the law in pay for play schemes in new jersey. and after one marathon press conference when the news first broke, christie has avoided doing any general press conferences over the past ten weeks. instead, he's used something that i call a town hall strategy. he basically appears before crowds, takes plenty of questions but never from reporters. who might push him on discrepancies in his story. the strategy enables christie to diminish the bridgegate story and by implications just about anyone who asks about it. as he told "the washington post" last month, the topic hasn't come in town halls because, quote, people care about real problems. well, that changed today at a town hall in flemington, new jersey. fred cantor, who lives about 45 minutes from ft. lee wanted to know exactly why christie fired his former deputy chief of staff bridget kelly who wrote that e-mail, quote, time for some traffic problems in ft. lee. >> after bridget kelly told you that she had lied to you about her involvement with the closing of the lanes, the next day you had a press conference and said you fired her because she lied to you. and i know that if a subordinate lies to you, that's a big blow to your ego, esteem and self-respect and everything like that. i think that is a very self-centered reason for firing somebody. her real offense was being involved in the shutting down of the george washington bridge. i don't know if it's illegal. it sure smells bad. i would think that you would fire her for what she did, and if she had told you -- if you came to the conference and she said you know, i did close it, i told you the truth and you said great, bridget, you told me the truth, you get a raise and a promotion and a two-week vacation. if she lies to you, she gets fired. if she tells you the truth. you made the firing contingent on the lie. that's what you said in the press conference. the firing should be contingent on the illegal act. >> first off, there were lots of reasons for the firing. what i said the day afterwards was that i can't have somebody work for me who lies to me. don't take from the fact that i fired her because she lied that that means if she had told me -- if she told me the truth, she would have gotten fired, too, because of what she did. but i never had the chance to hear the truth. and the offense, the offense first and foremost is not being honest with the person you're working for. >> joining me now for an exclusive interview, the man who asked chris christie's about bridget kelly's firing from mountain lakes, new jersey. what did you think of the answer you got from the governor? >> a lot of it was a nonanswer. because i asked about firing for a lie. and why he didn't fire her for being involved in the lane closings, and we went forward and said well, after i told you i fired her for the lie, i would talk about all these bad things and they were terrible and all that. he didn't answer the question. he said we should -- it should have been implicit that that's why he fired her. well, it wasn't implicit to me. it was very clear that he was avoiding something. >> so let's drill down on that, that word. it should have been implicit in his statement or his testimony. i'm going to play it. i would tell you, i didn't read that as implicit either. let's listen to the exact statement from the original press conference. >> this morning i've terminated the employment of the bridget kelly effective immediately. i terminated her employment because she lied to me. >> that was his focus. that she lied to him, as you said to him today. looking at him, as we saw there, a couple of feet apart eye to eye. what did you think of the way he felt about your questioning of him and the way he sort of teed up to try to broaden it out. >> i think he handled it very well. i've seen many times when he gets belligerent when he's asked a question that is unpleasant. i was ready for it. and if he had gotten belligerent with me, i think i would have had the upper hand because i have a cool head. he talked a tremendous amount afterwards when there was really nothing to talk about. all of that stuff that he said, that he had said after the firing in the press conference was not relevant. he talked about the general whole situation. it was terrible, it was bad for the state, inconvenienced people. wait a minute. the question is about bridget kelly's firing. >> i don't want to take too much time so i'm just going to read part of it. he said i'm not going to prejudge what a prosecutor would do. you act as a citizen, you come to the conclusion that it was an illegal act, that's your conclusion. he says it may or may not have been one. but when you're the governor of new jersey you don't have that luxury. you have to stay back on the investigation. that may be true that he wants to stay out of the investigation, but the premise of your question was, as a manager, as an executive, he still has to make decisions about who stays and goes. so why do you think he was unable to substantiate why she went, why she had to go be on the line today? >> well, he didn't want to tell us then and he doesn't want to tell us now. i think it is our right as citizens of the state to know the full reasons for government actions. we have an open government, spoizedly. he started today saying we're open, i'm completely open, i explain everything. then i got a question and he certainly didn't explain it. >> yeah. you know, we don't know where all of this is going to lead. and there's more investigation to be done. but the governor has made a decision to largely avoid any interactions with journalists on this issue. and so i think you have done something very important, and others may follow in your footsteps which is as a citizen, as a swept, question him where he has clearly closed the dpoor to many other types of questions. thanks for joining us tonight on "the last word." >> thank you. i think the governor is very brilliant in avoiding journalists. >> as a strategy, clearly a type of brilliance. coming up, as i mentioned before, the military's handling of sexual assault cases and some news on that next. huh...fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. yep, everybody knows that. well, did you know the ancient pyramids were actually a mistake? uh-oh. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. >> another u.s. military approved again today why changes should be made to the way military courts handle sexual assault. that's up next. picking him up and holding him against me. it wasn't just about me anymore. i had to quit. 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[ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ >> when you report something, you better be prepared for the repercussions. >> if a man gets accused of rape, it's a setup. the woman is lying. >> i could choose to report it, but if i wasn't -- but, you know, if they found out what i was saying wasn't truthful, i would be reduced in rank. >> you could lose your rate, you could lose rank, you could lose your school if you file a false report. so do you want to file a report? >> when the invisible war premiered in 2012, the documentary about sexual assault in the u.s. military sparked a huge debate. the film followed the cases of several cases who with the help of attorney susan burke sought justice in a system that seemed rigged against them. and that push for reform has gained some real traction. two high profile sexual assault cases unravelled, renewing concerns that the military cannot police its own. a mid shipmen was found not guilty of sexual assault while a brigadier general was fined and spared any jail time, despite admissions of several violations of military rules including adultery, relationships with subordinates, disobeying a commander's order and misusing a government credit card to trips to see the woman in question. the case was only the third time an army general of that sort has faced a court-martial in 60 years. while that kind of enforcement may be rare, the crimes against female service members are not. over 26,000 service members say they experienced unwanted sexual contact in 2012 alone. and that, as you see up there on the screen is according to the pentagon's own figures. last week, the senate did pass legislation from claire mccaskill who establish new rules on how victims and defendants can be treated and that bill removed the ability of defendants accused of sexual misconduct to invoke something called the good soldier defense. but senator gillebrand's bill which is considered much stronger, that bill has still continued to be denied a floor vote. in fact, 55 senators backed it in early march. but it was still filibustered by a minority of 34 republicans and 10 democrats as well as one independent. joining us now is susan burke, the attorney who represented so many survivors of military sexual assault, featured in the bottom tear. thanks for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> when you listen to these cases what do they tell you about the need for further reforms? >> well, they tem us the military cannot effectively prosecute rape and sexual assault. they're not good at policing their own. we've got to reform the system if we're going to change these type of dismal results. >> yeah. and let me bring from senator gillebrand's proposal and many of our viewers have seen her on several showers discussing this issue. she says this illustrates a military justice system in dire need of independence from the chain of command. it's not only the right thing to do for men and women in uniform but would also mitigate undue command influence that we've seen when survivors and defense attorneys both agree we need to reform the system, it should tell us the system needs reform. let me just briefly say for folks who are learning about this, undo command influence is simply the idea that when the president or other commanders mention that they want, for example, justice for victims of sexual assault, that can actually be invoked within the military courts as a reason to alter or dismisa case. that's just one piece of this. the other taking it out to more independent courts. what do you think could be the benefit of that approach? >> we all know the begs justice is blind justice. decisions by impartial people who have no involvement. the military system is the exact opposite. you're letting nonlegally trained people who have their own career interests at stake make all the critical legal decisions. that's the chain of command. the war fighters are actually the ones handling these legal issues. and so we need to adopt the gillibrand bill and put these decisions out of the hands of biased people and into the hands of trained judges. >> i understand that, and that's always been my view, as i learned about this and saw what kind of exception there really was here. an exception from what most people would expect when you have serious charges of rape or rape in a workplace setting, which is really what a lot of this is. having said that, i do want to play some remarks from general martin dempsey who is widely respected and basically argues there's a national security reason for this. let me play some of his statements from a senate hearing in june 2013. >> as we consider further reforms, the role of the commander should remain central. our goals should be to hold commanders more accountable, not render them less able to help us correct the crisis. the commander's responsibility to preserve order and discipline is essential to effecting change. they punish criminals and they protect victims when and where no other jurisdiction is capable of doing so or awe lawfully able to do so. commanders are accountable for all that goes on in a unit. and ultimately, they're response. responsible for the success of the missions assigned to them. >> he says commanders need to be in charge at all times. your response? >> look at general sinclair. he was a commander and he forced subordinates to send him nude pictures. he admitted that he imprisoned one of his subordinates, a female in a hotel room. you can not simply say keep it in the chain of command because then there will be good order and discipline. that's not the reality. the reality is allowing a system to police itself doesn't work and it's not working here. >> yeah, i understand that and appreciate not only your response but also the work you've been doing. thank you for joining us tonight. you can find me on facebook at facebook.com/arimelbur. chris hayes is up next. vigil. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in san francisco. i'll start with the hunt for flight 370. 7 billion people on this planet, and the global focus is on a plane last seen carrying 239 of us. a vigil to australia, where two objects were found.