to m next was done in august. before i move on to my next question, _ was done in august. before i move on to my next question, you _ was done in august. before i move on to my next question, you say - was done in august. before i move on to my next question, you say it - to my next question, you say it wasn't relevant in the earlier period. forthose wasn't relevant in the earlier period. for those on low incomes who kept the country going, working in food processing plants, in transport, in social care through lockdown, it was highly relevant, wasn't it? �* . , wasn't it? and there was considerable _ wasn't it? and there was considerable support - wasn't it? and there was considerable support in i wasn't it? and there was - considerable support in place for the most — considerable support in place for the most vulnerable, as i have documented in my previous answers. not only— documented in my previous answers. not only did — documented in my previous answers. not only did we put in a hardship fund _ not only did we put in a hardship fund for— not only did we put in a hardship fund for local authorities to help people _ fund for local authorities to help people who most needed it, we temporarily increased universal credit, — temporarily increased universal credit, which was worse £1000 per vear~ _ credit, which was worse £1000 per vear~ we _ credit, which was worse £1000 per year. we increased the local housing aiiowance _ year. we increased the local housing allowance for 1.5 million of the most _ allowance for 1.5 million of the most vulnerable families were worth £600 _ most vulnerable families were worth £600 per— most vulnerable families were worth £600 per year, and we added a southern — £600 per year, and we added a southern planning scheme so those who were _ southern planning scheme so those who were self—employed benefited from considerable support, whether they were _ from considerable support, whether they were able to work or not. there was considerable support in place of everybody _ was considerable support in place of everybody and the evidence is clear that it _ everybody and the evidence is clear that it did _ everybody and the evidence is clear that it did benefit the most vulnerable and those on the lowest inconres _ vulnerable and those on the lowest incomes. my point was that this became — incomes. my point was that this became a — incomes. my point was that this became a more significant consideration in terms of the scale because _ consideration in terms of the scale because of— consideration in terms of the scale because of test, track and trace. this had — because of test, track and trace. this had an _ because of test, track and trace. this had an ability to impact the national— this had an ability to impact the national progress of the pandemic because _ national progress of the pandemic because we were in our testing at such— because we were in our testing at such a _ because we were in our testing at such a scale. as sooner that became a conversation and it was set up, we engage _ a conversation and it was set up, we engage with — a conversation and it was set up, we engage with those, conversations and provided _ engage with those, conversations and provided that support. gn engage with those, conversations and provided that support.— provided that support. on that scheme introduced _ provided that support. on that scheme introduced in - provided that support. on that. scheme introduced in september, providing £500 of support, it ultimately had very low take—up, didn't it? ultimately had very low take-up, didn't it? , , , . , didn't it? yes, my understanding is around a fifth _ didn't it? yes, my understanding is around a fifth of _ didn't it? yes, my understanding is around a fifth of people _ didn't it? yes, my understanding is around a fifth of people took- didn't it? yes, my understanding is around a fifth of people took it - didn't it? yes, my understanding is around a fifth of people took it up. | around a fifth of people took it up. in around a fifth of people took it up. in terms— around a fifth of people took it up. in terms of— around a fifth of people took it up. in terms of the reasons for that, it was a _ in terms of the reasons for that, it was a iocai— in terms of the reasons for that, it was a local authority administered scheme _ was a local authority administered scheme. was it foreseen that doing it that _ scheme. was it foreseen that doing it that way— scheme. was it foreseen that doing it that way would be cumbersome and, frankly. _ it that way would be cumbersome and, frankly, inaccessible, with many iocai— frankly, inaccessible, with many local authorities each incrementing their own _ local authorities each incrementing their own individual scheme in a slightly— their own individual scheme in a slightly different way?— their own individual scheme in a slightly different way? look, that is alwa s slightly different way? look, that is always the _ slightly different way? look, that is always the challenge _ slightly different way? look, that is always the challenge with - slightly different way? look, that | is always the challenge with doing things by local authorities, they will be slightly different even with local guidance. i don't think there was an alternative. it was accepted that it wouldn't be perfect, but it was better than doing nothing. the only others alternative with dwp, but it was clear from the advice that i received that it wasn't practical, not least because it would have required primary legislation for the dwp to make payments like that, a bed and have the apparatus, unlike local authorities, who were well placed to know their most vulnerable people, and also local authorities did have access to all the same underlying benefits data as dwp.— access to all the same underlying benefits data as dwp. none of these are perfect. — benefits data as dwp. none of these are perfect. by _ benefits data as dwp. none of these are perfect. by any — benefits data as dwp. none of these are perfect, by any means, - benefits data as dwp. none of these are perfect, by any means, but - benefits data as dwp. none of these are perfect, by any means, but i - are perfect, by any means, but i don't _ are perfect, by any means, but i don't think— are perfect, by any means, but i don't think there was a credible alternative to local authorities doing — alternative to local authorities doing this. alternative to local authorities doing this— alternative to local authorities doin: this. �* , , ., doing this. i'm running very short of time. doing this. i'm running very short of time- i — doing this. i'm running very short of time. i think _ doing this. i'm running very short of time. i think you _ doing this. i'm running very short of time. i think you have - doing this. i'm running very short of time. i think you have run - doing this. i'm running very short of time. i think you have run out| doing this. i'm running very short i of time. i think you have run out of time, of time. i think you have run out of time. i'm — of time. i think you have run out of time, i'm afraid. _ of time. i think you have run out of time, i'm afraid. in _ of time. i think you have run out of time, i'm afraid. in that— of time. i think you have run out of time, i'm afraid. in that case, - of time. i think you have run out of time, i'm afraid. in that case, i'd i time, i'm afraid. in that case, i'd better leave _ time, i'm afraid. in that case, i'd better leave it _ time, i'm afraid. in that case, i'd better leave it there. _ time, i'm afraid. in that case, i'd better leave it there. thank- time, i'm afraid. in that case, i'd better leave it there. thank you, i time, i'm afraid. in that case, i'd . better leave it there. thank you, my lady. better leave it there. thank you, my lad . . ~ , . better leave it there. thank you, my lad. . ~ , . that lady. thank you very much. that concludes _ lady. thank you very much. that concludes the _ lady. thank you very much. that concludes the evidence. - lady. thank you very much. that concludes the evidence. i - lady. thank you very much. that concludes the evidence. i don't. concludes the evidence. i don't think there _ concludes the evidence. i don't think there is _ concludes the evidence. i don't think there is an _ concludes the evidence. i don't think there is an ever - concludes the evidence. i don't think there is an ever easy - concludes the evidence. i don't| think there is an ever easy time concludes the evidence. i don't - think there is an ever easy time for you to _ think there is an ever easy time for you to come — think there is an ever easy time for you to come down _ think there is an ever easy time for you to come down here. _ think there is an ever easy time for you to come down here. i- think there is an ever easy time for. you to come down here. i appreciated this particular— you to come down here. i appreciated this particular week. _ you to come down here. i appreciated this particular week. thank— you to come down here. i appreciated this particular week. thank you - you to come down here. i appreciated this particular week. thank you for. this particular week. thank you for your heib — this particular week. thank you for our hel. . .. this particular week. thank you for our hel. . ,, i. ., this particular week. thank you for our hel. . ~' ,, ., . your help. thank you for having me. that completes _ your help. thank you for having me. that completes the _ your help. thank you for having me. that completes the oral— your help. thank you for having me. that completes the oral evidence i your help. thank you for having me. | that completes the oral evidence for module _ that completes the oral evidence for module two~ — that completes the oral evidence for module two the _ that completes the oral evidence for module two. the oral— that completes the oral evidence for module two. the oral evidence - that completes the oral evidence for module two. the oral evidence is, i. module two. the oral evidence is, i have _ module two. the oral evidence is, i have to _ module two. the oral evidence is, i have to repeat, _ module two. the oral evidence is, i have to repeat, just _ module two. the oral evidence is, i have to repeat, just one _ module two. the oral evidence is, i have to repeat, just one part - module two. the oral evidence is, i have to repeat, just one part of - module two. the oral evidence is, i have to repeat, just one part of the process _ have to repeat, just one part of the process an — have to repeat, just one part of the process. an important _ have to repeat, just one part of the process. an important part, - have to repeat, just one part of the process. an important part, of- process. an important part, of course — process. an important part, of course it— process. an important part, of course it is, _ process. an important part, of course it is, but— process. an important part, of course it is, but so— process. an important part, of course it is, but so is- process. an important part, of course it is, but so is the - process. an important part, of. course it is, but so is the written material — course it is, but so is the written material that _ course it is, but so is the written material that is _ course it is, but so is the written material that is also _ course it is, but so is the written material that is also important, i course it is, but so is the written. material that is also important, as are the _ material that is also important, as are the submissions— material that is also important, as are the submissions of— material that is also important, as are the submissions of written - are the submissions of written participants _ are the submissions of written participants i— are the submissions of written participants. i will— are the submissions of written participants. i will consider- are the submissions of written participants. i will consider all| participants. i will consider all that— participants. i will consider all that evidence _ participants. i will consider all that evidence before - participants. i will consider all that evidence before i- participants. i will consider all that evidence before i reach. participants. i will consider all. that evidence before i reach any conclusions _ that evidence before i reach any conclusions. i— that evidence before i reach any conclusions. i will— that evidence before i reach any conclusions. i will hear- that evidence before i reach any conclusions. i will hear the - conclusions. i will hear the submissions _ conclusions. i will hear the submissions of— conclusions. i will hear the submissions of core - conclusions. i will hear the - submissions of core participants on wednesday— submissions of core participants on wednesday and _ submissions of core participants on wednesday and thursday, - submissions of core participants on wednesday and thursday, and - submissions of core participants on - wednesday and thursday, and because of the _ wednesday and thursday, and because of the tight— wednesday and thursday, and because of the tight timetable, _ wednesday and thursday, and because of the tight timetable, i— wednesday and thursday, and because of the tight timetable, i will— wednesday and thursday, and because of the tight timetable, i will give - of the tight timetable, i will give them _ of the tight timetable, i will give them an— of the tight timetable, i will give them an extended _ of the tight timetable, i will give them an extended time - of the tight timetable, i will give them an extended time to - of the tight timetable, i will givei them an extended time to submit of the tight timetable, i will give - them an extended time to submit any written _ them an extended time to submit any written submissions _ them an extended time to submit any written submissions to _ them an extended time to submit any written submissions to supplement i written submissions to supplement their oral— written submissions to supplement their oral submissions. _ written submissions to supplement their oral submissions. i— written submissions to supplement their oral submissions. i shall- their oral submissions. i shall return— their oral submissions. i shall return to _ their oral submissions. i shall return to module _ their oral submissions. i shall return to module two - their oral submissions. i shall return to module two on i their oral submissions. i shall- return to module two on wednesday. wrapping _ return to module two on wednesday. wrapping up — return to module two on wednesday. wrapping up the _ return to module two on wednesday. wrapping up the day's _ return to module two on wednesday. wrapping up the day's proceedings. i wrapping up the day's proceedings. the prime minister, rishi sunak there, spending the day giving evidence to the covid inquiry. it has apologise ofosu suffered as a result of government decisions in the pandemic. scientific advisers have already told the inquiry that they didn't know about the eat out to help out plan until it was announced and there were concerns that it could spread the virus. when asked about the scheme, the prime minister defended it from the accusations that it was introduced without any scientific backing. eat out to help 0ut was designed specifically in the context of the safe lifting of things that had been signed _ safe lifting of things that had been signed off as part of the main plan which _ signed off as part of the main plan which had — signed off as part of the main plan which had reopened hospitality, indoor— which had reopened hospitality, indoor hospitality. that had been part of— indoor hospitality. that had been part of the approved plan. eat 0ut part of the approved plan. eat out to help— part of the approved plan. eat out to help 0ut only operated within that context and there were a significant range of other things in place. _ significant range of other things in place, including social distancing, covid _ place, including social distancing, covid secure guidance, table service, _ covid secure guidance, table service, contactless systems, which were all— service, contactless systems, which were all in— service, contactless systems, which were all in place. the overall reopening of indoor hospitality had already— reopening of indoor hospitality had already been implemented and, as we discussed _ already been implemented and, as we discussed before, modelled and all the rest _ discussed before, modelled and all the rest of— discussed before, modelled and all the rest of it and involved in scientists— the rest of it and involved in scientists in that. eat 0ut the rest of it and involved in scientists in that. eat out to help 0ut was _ scientists in that. eat out to help 0ut was designed to operate in that context _ 0ut was designed to operate in that context it — 0ut was designed to operate in that context. it didn't do anything further— context. it didn't do anything further than that. it was a micro—policy to make sure that that capacity— micro—policy to make sure that that capacity which was part of a package that could _ capacity which was part of a package that could be safely delivered and make _ that could be safely delivered and make sure that was used. it was done very much— make sure that was used. it was done very much in— make sure that was used. it was done very much in that context. in the same _ very much in that context. in the same way— very much in that context. in the same way that other economic decisions _ same way that other economic decisions like a vat cut for hospitality or a stamp duty cut or anything — hospitality or a stamp duty cut or anything further or grants for the hospitality industry wouldn't ordinarily be cleared with medical advisers. — ordinarily be cleared with medical advisers, norwas ordinarily be cleared with medical advisers, nor was this. we had a ready— advisers, nor was this. we had a ready made _ advisers, nor was this. we had a ready made the collective decision to reopen — ready made the collective decision to reopen indoor hospitality and it was a _ to reopen indoor hospitality and it was a policy that sat within and beneath— was a policy that sat within and beneath that. he was a policy that sat within and beneath that.— was a policy that sat within and beneath that. , ., ., beneath that. he pointed out there were three months _ beneath that. he pointed out there were three months for _ beneath that. he pointed out there were three months for any - beneath that. he pointed out there i were three months for any objections to be raised between the introduction of the scheme and its commencement. it precisely in those three _ and its commencement. it precisely in those three meetings _ and its commencement. it precisely in those three meetings that - and its commencement. it precisely in those three meetings that you i in those three meetings that you mentioned, the chief medical officer in the _ mentioned, the chief medical officer in the minutes talked about two significant risk moments, schools and winter — significant risk moments, schools and winter. he did not mention eat 0ut and winter. he did not mention eat out to— and winter. he did not mention eat out to help 0ut. and winter. he did not mention eat out to help out. if i could just finish. — out to help out. if i could just finish, because it is important, on the 22nd — finish, because it is important, on the 22nd of— finish, because it is important, on the 22nd ofjuly, the agenda item is august— the 22nd ofjuly, the agenda item is august planning. again, it was not raised _ august planning. again, it was not raised by— august planning. again, it was not raised by the chief scientif