someone from history, and i am not talking about someone that most of you would admire. as alarming as the rhetoric is, the things that he is planning to do, should he win reelection, are even more disturbing. during his three decades in journalism, jonathan carl earned his reputation as one of the best reporters in washington. he's tough, i should know, i spent years fielding tough questions from him, and if he is sounding the alarm, which he is, we shouldn't be listening. his new book, tired of winning, donald trump and the end of the grand old party is not tomorrow. it serves as a roadmap of what we should expect from donald trump if he ever reenters the oval office. he's going to take us inside all of that in a moment. also later tonight, john favrow, tommy vietor, my former colleagues of their pod save america. they will talk about how president biden should campaign against a fully authoritarian opponent. that's what we're talking about. now and later, congressman adam shift joins me on the deafening silence from his republican party. in the supreme court's ethics up today, and buccaneers the night on what former trump lawyer jenna ellis is telling prosecutors in georgia, and what that all means. but first, let's go back to that historical figure, trump seems to admire so much. this weekend, trump vowed to root out what he called the radical left dogs that live like vermont within the confines of our country. that is an exact quote. for the students of history out there, if that sounds familiar to you, it's because it echoes the language of adolf hitler. as he told czech foreign minister, among many others, this was the language he used frequently, quote, this vermin must be destroyed. look, lots of things trump says are shocking. they are shocking on a daily basis, but it's important a pause on this for a moment, because the former president, who is also the current front runner for the republican nomination and very much could end up in the oval office, is mirroring the dangerous rhetoric hitler used to come back to the holocaust. this is not an isolated incident. an and interview just last month, trump used graphic dehumanizing language against undocumented immigrants, accusing them of, quote, poisoning the blood of our country. again, that's the kind of language hitler used in mein kampf, when he wrote, quote, agriculture said the past perish, only because they originally created for a sidearm blood poisoning. when asked about trump's rhetoric and how it echoes dictators like hitler and mussolini, which clearly does, his spokesperson says today, for those that claim that it does, which it does, there sat, miserable existence will be crushed when president trump returned to the white house. that sounds like something hitler or somebody spokesperson would say, but here is the thing. it's not just trump's fascist language or fascist ideations, which he clearly has, the piece that should really scared the hell out of everyone are his actual plans. a scary as all the talk, is the plans are even scarier, and that is especially important to pay attention to do, when he is in reach of regaining the white house. here's just a taste, a little taste, because there's a lot. i can cover it all tonight, of the unmistakably fascist plans trump has in store, locking up his political opponents, prosecuting officials at the fbi and doj, using the insurrection act to go after peaceful demonstrators, preparing for sweeping rates, sprawling camps and mass deportation of immigrants. there's new reporting today, every day, there's new reporting. according to axios today, about his plans to install a brief army of 50,000 loyalist essentialized and expand its power across every level of government. in this moment, when trump is using fascist language, which he frequently is and laying out fascist plans for the white house, it's important to know how we have arrived here. it's important to know it's not just the threat of thess, this threat is very much still present right now. as jonathan karl writes in his book, whatever guardrails may have existed before are gone. he no longer as people stature around him who are willing to defy his demands and to protect the nation from his destructive instinct, but it's more than that. it's that his destructive instincts are even more destructive than they were in january of 2021. joining me now is abc news chief washington correspondent, jonathan carl. he's the author of the new book, tired of winning, donald trump and the end of the grand old party. let me start with, i read this, book it did not take me long, it's a really amazing and have read, and i highly recommend it, but there's an argument out there, that trump has always been this way. you hear republicans say, this here's some of his advisers say this, that the behavior we see today is the double trump we should have always known. reading this, book it sounds like, you did not disagree with that notion. >> i do. look, there are elements that he's always been like this. he's been obsessed with himself, always been willing to lie to problem self up, but donald trump, of 2023 is not the same guy that came into the white house in 2017. he is more divorced from reality, more undeterred to do whatever is on his mind. i think the biggest factor here is all the guardrails are gone. when he came into the white house, there were people that came with him who felt that it was their duty to try to keep them, protect him and protect the country from its most destructive impulses, which were always clearly there. those people are gone. the people that tried to steer the white house counsel office, like don mccann and pat cipollone argon. people like mattis, john kelly, they're gone. anybody who tried to do anything to hold him back is now gone. it is trump and his most sycophantic supporters that are with him now. >> you have a rather stunning detail you talk about in the book. it's about an order trump, to this point you made, signed to withdraw troops from afghanistan, which is a massively consequential decision, i don't tell anyone. yet the document was effectively forged by trump's body man, with no input from military or national security adviser. christopher wray wrote that the president knew that states could not get the lead point to carry out his policies, because he cannot be bothered to learn how to implement them. but you referenced having kind of a protective group of people who are trying to prevent him from this behavior in a first term, with eating a second term would look like. >> at the end, this was johnny mcentee, his personal director, who was recently the guy who carried his bags, the body. >> here's proof -- promote it. >> he was promoted by kept the body guy job. he was always with trump. he was also responsible for the largest and most important hr department in the federal government, hiring and firing, 4000 political appointees throughout the executive branch. and, mcatee, after trump lost the election set out to remake the defense department. it was him who went through and helped trump decapitate mark esper and the top leadership and it's not people that would do exactly what trump wanted. he actually into writing this order, which we know about in the past, but what i learned is that he was literally trying to figure out how to do it by googling, and then doug mcgregor, this guy tipped over as the advisor for the defense secretary, just go to the file cabinet and get out and old executive order and look at the format and copy for. and he writes, it's not just a withdrawal from afghanistan, by the way, it's also a withdrawal of u.s. troops in germany, withdraw u.s. troops from the middle east, it's a massively consequential order. eventually, it was brought down, but it caused chaos over the course of several days in the pentagon. >> it reminded me of what we have seen in the forum shopping, to find staffers and lawyers, frankly, who are agreeing with what trump wants to do. there was some element that was not that way in the first term but feels like it could be in the second. part of it is that we recently heard trump, just over the last couple of days, indict his political opponent. i sit there and, he is going to indict his political opponents. he wanted to root out the vermont of the left, literally determined that he used. he used extreme positions on a range of positions, of course. what do you make of these kind of increasing threats. it feels a little like the authoritarian wildes of him are increasing, but what do you make of? it >> is an essential theme of my book, which is something that is different. there is a coherent idea now behind trump's reelection campaign. i don't know if there was always a call her idea. and the best, under greatest, build a wall, all that stuff, now, it's retribution. as i point out, steve bannon, who, once again, is an incredibly important adviser to donald trump, talks about the calm retribution speech which launched, basically relaunched his presidential campaign, at the time of that first round in waco, texas, of all places. secrets the waco texas, where the branch davidians had their showdown with federal law enforcement back in 1993. basically, the inspiration for the armed right wing military, that's where he goes to lance's campaign, and it is not about retribution, it's about seeking out his enemies. that, that you just cited, about the vermin, we're going to get the vermin, that is not see imagery. i am not saying that donald trump is a not see, but those -- that is the language used by adolf hitler. there's a story in this book, from a very senior member of congress, close ally of donald trump, tell me about this, that anomalies two occasions, trump told a story about angela merkel, the chancellor of germany. now, she told me, she only heard one person that has ever gotten a crowd as because me, and only one person could attract crowds, and this is the chancellor of germany, say to trump, that there is only one other. trump never says this, and he is bragging about this. >> it's the admiration for these figures, current and in history, who are abhorrent to most people. one of the things that was so shocking to me about the book was, we all spent so much time talking about the events of january six, the events leading up to january six, hugely important consequential time in history, but you talk a lot in the book about what happened after that, including, the fact that trump, a full six months after biden's inauguration, seemed to think that he could be reinstated. we have a little audio from your interview that will play, and then i want to talk to you about it. >> by the way, when you had a release recently, you said 2024 or before, with you mean by that? you don't really think there's a way you would get reinstated before the next election? >> i'm not gonna explain to you, jonathan, because he wouldn't, wouldn't understand it or write it. >> this is incredible, then one of the things, for all the things that you saw over the course of the trump presidency, this one really stood out to me for the post presidency. michael indo, my fellow election denying, he was out saying that trump would be reinstated, at the end of it all the specific date, on august 13th. this was right before that. i figured this was a qanon hockey thing that was out there, but i saw this press release, not a person throughout her, about something else. it was actually criticizing nbc. the last lines of it were 2024 or before, and that's why i ask, you can see, he's like, i am not going to explain it to you. he's not denying it, but what i found, he was actively pursuing this, actively talking about everybody that with listen privately, and he seemed to truly believe that there was going to be a series of steps that happened in the states that he lost, and that donald trump was going to be able to go back into the white house. joe biden was going to be evicted, and there is a story. it's not, by the way, just six months. what i learned is that -- >> that interview was about six months. >> but it kept on going on. into 2022. the actual thermobaric's, endorsed him running for senate in alabama. >> it was quite conservative. >> mo brooks, let's put it this way, he wore body armor to the speech outside the white house on january six. he was the first guy to leave the objections in congress to biden certification. so, millbrook's, he called more brooks up, and again, unannounced call, he picked it up and made a series of four demands. the demands were all related to the reinstatement thing. he wanted brooks to go out and call on biden to be removed from the white house, called to a re-running of the election, and for trump to be reinstated for president. and, well brooks, again, pretty extreme trump die hard, said, no, that is unconstitutional, i can do it. trump then a few days later withdrew his endorsement. this is not what was going on. he really thought that something was going to happen, would cyber ninjas in arizona and everything else. it was all going to come to this big culminating line, and he will go back to the white house. >> he talked to a lot of people who worked for him or around him. another really fascinating detail in your book is the mention an anonymous, former high-level official in the trump white house, somebody ose to him, he described it as, who shared his reflections with you, after trump was indicted. he said, quote, i am going to read this, because it is kind of jarring. he lacks and a shred of human decency, humility or carrying. he is morally bankrupt, breathtakingly dishonest, we fully incompetent and seemingly ignorant of anything related to government, history, geography, human events or world affairs. he is a traitor and a malignancy in the nation, and we'll take clear and present danger to our democracy, and the rule of law. that is quite a statement for somebody who has spent time close to and around the former president, and that was something that he wrote down relatively recently. >> yes, this is somebody that served more than a year at a high level, inside the west wing. very close to donald trump, not somebody that went out publicly and repeated the lies about the elections, not one of those people, but he also is not supported and publicly come out to condemn thump either. that's not what they would call the usual suspects. this is somebody that served him, served him for more than a year, and it gets to a fundamental truth about donald trump, that is the most piercing and searing criticism of him, the people who are sounding the alarm lattice about what a second trump term would mean, are those who are closest to him, some of them have gone public, people like john kelly have gone public, to make this point. a lot of not. this is -- you might ask, why don't they come out, why doesn't this person come out and -- >> i would ask that. >> it's a good question, not that you ask, jen. what he told me is, frankly, he fears the retribution -- >> from trump? >> from trump, and trump's people, not just to him but to his family. this person has gone on, not directly active in politics right now, i think is quite chased from the experience. and you saw those words, really warning about not just what trump was like but what he would be like if you came back. >> jonathan carl, this book, tired of winning, it's a huge wake up call, had many, many details included in it. i really enjoyed reading it. it's all tomorrow and available wherever you get your books, thank you so much for joining us. coming up, breaking news out of fulton county, georgia, new video of controversial interviews with two key trump codefendants has surfaced tonight. we're going to play that and get reaction from congressman adam shift. but first, now, we know what donald trump's plans are, if you retakes the white house. the question is, what are 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network. time democratic president ran for reelection when the white house. i definitely do. mitt romney was the republican nominee, and there were some similarities, definitely, heading into the 2024 election. there was a definite freak out over the polls in the fall of 2011, as there are today, and many predictions that then president obama was toast. as we all know, president obama was not toast, actually, but, the policy debates back then about issues like the economy and health care were front and center. they're still important today, but next year's election is definitely not the 2024 version of a policy debate with mitt romney. this are kind of the good old days, i had to tell you. next year is about the survival of the american experiment, and a few things make that reality more evident then a new statement for the yesterday, where they called other likely opponent, donald trump, for using the language of authoritarian dictators like hitler and mussolini. the question now is, how can the biden campaign successfully run against him? jon favreau is a former speech writer for president obama. tommy vietor is the spokesperson for the national committee council at the obama white house. we all work together in the good old days against the romney campaign. they are co-host of the podcast, pod save america, and co-host of the upcoming book, that marcus c or else, how to save america in ten easy steps, and they germano. >> john, i'll start to. this is a full circle moment for president biden. he started his 2020 campaign with an announcement video about the way nationalists marched at charlottesville. if anything, that is trump has only become more dangerous. we are literally here talking about him echoing hitler and mussolini. that's the composition that we're having, for people to know about. i think the question here is, what should the biden campaign, they had a statement from the white house, but what should the campaign be doing about. it's almost wh