Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20110825 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 August 25, 2011



carolinas and threatening the entire northeastern seaboard. we'll have a lot of details about that tonight. the other breaking story, of course, libya and the hunt for gadhafi. the opposition's already got his cap. this guy took it out of his pal as. now they want that head that goes with it and they're willing to pay. $2.5 million for the dictator dead or alive, they say. one of his sons still at large is sending e-mails to our nick robertson. nick just got another one a few minutes ago and he joins us shortly. in the meantime, heavy fighting today in tripoli. take a look. >> running street battles all day. this video's from the capital's eastern neighborhoods not far from the airport. the field in opposition hands but still taking heavy shell, from loyalist fighters nearby, some of it just within the last-mile-per-hour or two. the two side exchanging artillery throughout the day. opposition commanders say they've been trying to direct fire to minimize civilian casualties but it hasn't been easy because gadhafi forces are so intertwined amongst the local population. our arwa damon is there. we'll talk to her in southern tripoli, similar disdain for civilian lives. reports all day of loyalists gunmen out in the streets taking pot shots at people. now to the east, new video of the damage that loyalist fighters are leaving behind as they retreat. these are the oil facilities in brega still burning nearly a week after they fled. before they did they fired shells into the tank, causing this inferno right there. and on the road from zawiya into tripoli, some group presumably loyalists kidnapping four italian journalists. 33 others including cnn's matthew chance went free today after that hair rowing ordeal held at gunpoint by loyalist thugs who did not know gadhafi was gone. here's how it played out. >> well, there's been some developments. this terrible experience we've all been through. we've managed to speak to the guys in charge. and they've been given orders by the gadhafi regime to not let the journalists leave. they are carrying those order out even though the whole world for them has changed. we hope to get away from this. >> bye, bbc. bye, matthew. good luck. >> good luck. bye, guys. good luck. >> at one point a rifle was thrown across the room into the kitchen, into the kitchens and the restaurant area. and the whole situation changed. all those guards there, the two guards were in the lobby of the hotel. gadhafi loyalists right up until the end. right up until beyond the end you could say. they basically came over to us and they said, look, we're not going to stop you from leaving anymore. all we had to do then was arrange some kind of transport. thankfully the icrc came across and they came up with four cars. and we're taking a civilian vehicle as well to get all the other journalists in. and we're now as we speak make our way to a safe location elsewhere in the city. >> she's not talking on camera. she's not doing it. >> it's the cnn camera. >> she was great. she was doing for all of us, all the journalists that were there. jamanah was crucial. she was doing much of the negotiation with the gadhafi gunmen downstairs in the lob bill. she was taking it on her shoulders to do it. it was remarkable. she's one amazing producer. i don't think we'd all be here now. i literally think she was that good. i don't think we'd be here now. >> it was just all of us talking and finding a coping mechanism for being in there, trying sometimes to just crack jokes and make the best out of one of the worst scenarios one can be in. >> we're going to green square now. dan is there. and so is sara. >> matthew's here now! yeah! >> behind the scenes look of how it ended. matthew chance joins us now. matthew it is so nice to see you out of that hotel. so many people here and all around the world were krnd about all of you trapped in that hotel. as you look back on it now, what was the most difficult moment? and i know you can speak more freely now. what was the most difficult moment? >> reporter: well, first of all, we're really grateful, all of us, all the journalists here, me and jamanah and all the journalists held against our will. grateful for the support we were getting on twitter and all the other messages that have come to us. it's fantastic and really means a lot to us. it's difficult, anderson, to say which was the worst time. i think it was probably because there are so many of them. we were lying on our bellies at one point, hoping the shells that were coming into the compound weren't going to hit us. there were snipers firing into the hotel at various point during the fight, basically we were kept there against our will. but i think the worst time was when we realized quite early on in the situation we found ourselves in that here we'd lost control of the situation, that all these scenarios started playing out in our heads. we started getting paranoid that we could be used as human shields if gadhafi's remnants of his army decided to use the hotel to make their last stand. maybe we were going to be taken prisoner properly. maybe we were going to be executed. we didn't know. all these things were ticking through our heads. it's when we realized that this could end really badly for us. and when that sank into us, i think that was the sort of turning point and it was early on in this situation. and from then we were kind of really focused on working out solutions and working out answers to various scenarios what we would do if such and such happened. and it was a very traumatic time throughout that period. it's difficult to pinpoint one exact moment which was the worst. >> we were very careful on this program but i think everybody at cnn and many other networks not to use the word "hostage". not to say that you were being held hostage. now that it is over, looking back on it, at the time, were you being held hostage? >> reporter: you know, we certainly felt like we were. we certainly had had our right to leave taken away from us. we weren't being permitted to leave. and in that sense we were being held in captivity against our will. we felt like hostages. we felt like victims. we felt in a lot of danger. and it was also very frustrating because we were so cut off from the outside world and from tripoli that we couldn't even -- we didn't even know what was going on outside the walls of the hotel in terms of what news developments were happening. and it was very difficult for us to get communications out, as you know. so we couldn't even do our work, which was what we were all there to do. so it was immensely frustrating. and yes, i think there was a sense in which we all felt that we were hostages. but we're still a little puzzled. we've got theories but we're a little puzzled as to why we were being held hostage in that way, why we weren't being permitted to leave. that's still a bit of a mystery to us. >> in this kind of situation you know better than anybody people do not act rationally and things happen which are not rational but nonetheless they happen and people suffer because of it. it was fascinating to see your producer negotiating, that shot of her negotiating. you saying she played an instrumental role in getting everybody out. what sort of discussions was she having with these gunmen who were controlling the hotel? >> reporter: well, jamanah is a very persuasive person. she's able to -- she's an arab. she's from jordan. and she speaks fantastic english, she speaks fantastic arabic. and she's able to connect with the people in the arab world because she speaks the language, because she is an arab herself. and she was able to persuade eventually the gunmen who were in the lobby of the hotel, the gadhafi loyalists who were preventing us from leaving. she was able to persuade them that the situation outside the gates of the hotel were -- had changed, that world had essentially changed for libya outside the gates of the hotel. i think jamanah was instrumental, looking back on our sort of ordeal over the past five or six days in the rixos hotel. she was instrumental in getting those gunmen to make that sort of transformation between -- from being these people who were kind of following the orders of colonel gadhafi for 42 years, that man's been the dictator of this country. everything he says is law. that transformation into people who realize that that was no longer the case, that he's no longer in power, that it didn't matter that they ordered them to keep us in the hotel because he was no longer in many ways no longer relevant in libya. and once that transformation happened, the whole situation changed. the guards literally -- they gave us their weapons. they said we don't want them anymore and they apologized to us and said, you can go free now. so that was really important. jamanah was great in achieving that. we all worked towards that. but i think jamanah all played a part in achieving that really positive outcome. >> really briefly, do you know what has happened to those gunmen now? you said they gave up their weapon toss you. have they just tried to kind of disappear? >> reporter: well, i hope so. i mean, certainly one or two of them were i think in the end very good people. they were following orders. this was their jobs. they were just doing what they were told to do and they weren't very aggressive to us. there were others that were much more aggressive and much more hostile. so i certainly hope that they've managed to kind of melt away and sort of perhaps reinvent themselves in what is essentially a new libya, anderson. >> matthew chance, again, so remarkable and so great to see you. thank you very much, matthew. stay safe. be careful there. let us know what you think. we're on facebook. follow me on twitter @ anderson cooper next the battle for the airport is still going on as we speak. one of our correspondents right in the middle of it. also more on the $2.5 million question, where is muammar gadhafi? that's a bounty now been put on his head dead or alive. we'll talk that new bounty and any new clues to his whereabouts. first isha sesay stunning news, breaking news out of silicon valley, steve jobs, co-founder and ceo of apple is stepping down. he's been on medical leave recently. in a letter to the board he says, "i have always said if there ever came a day when i could no longer meet my duties and expectations as apple's ceo i would be the first to let you know. unfortunately, that day has come". more on this and other stories tonight when 360 continues. 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[ announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ gadhafi forces have been stationed to the east. they have for quite some time now the last few days attempting to regain control of this airport. >> if you need to take cover do it. >> i think that's outgoing as far as i can tell. so i think we're pretty okay where we are right now. that is rebel fighters shooting out of the airport complex. now, what they're trying to do is push these gadhafi firefighters back. they've entrenched themselves in these villages along the eastern part of the airport. >> that's our arwa damon just this morning in the middle of the battle to hold onto tripoli's international airport. as you saw at the top, the opposition took it yesterday. they control it now. but they're still fighting to keep it. they've been exchanging artillery and gunfire all day with new shelling reported just within the last hour or so. a big problem loyalist forces are firing from populated areas as we mentioned earlier. returning fire obviously then puts civilians at risk. arwa damon has been there through it all. arwa you've been in the thick of this all day. what's the latest there? is the opposition still struggling to keep a hold of the airport? >> reporter: well, anderson, the incoming artillery, the incoming rocket fire was just so intense that we actually had to move our live position inside. the rounds were coming too frequently and too close. at one point they did manage to hit it would seem one of the aircraft on the tarmac. it went up in flames. there was an explosion. there was heavy exchanging of machine gunfire. it was relentless! and it intensified throughout the night. it's really only just slightly calmed down in the last hour or so. and the commanders here believe that the reason why there's been such an effort by gadhafi forces to try to retake control over this airport is because he believes that gadhafi loyalists are trying to clear a route for gadhafi and his family members to somehow escape. the rebels do not control the area to the east of the airport. there's two military bases located there. it is populated with gadhafi loyalists, we are being told. nor do the rebels control the chunk of highway that runs south from tripoli to the airport complex here, anderson. >> now, is the fighting there strictly between the opposition forces, the opposition and forces loyal to gadhafi, or it nato involved as well? or are these grad rocket batteries in two civilian areas for nato to actually try to take care of? >> reporter: yeah. we've been hearing the nato jets overhead pretty much ever since we got here a few days ago. but when it comes to what was happening today we were hearing the jets overhead then as well. but the opposition fighters were telling us that the nato jets were unable to fire on these particular locations because these gadhafi forces are literally using these villages for cover and there are great concerns about civilian casualties. but it's so frustrating for the rebels who are based here because they're so bogged down in trying to protect the airport that they haven't been able, they say, to get out there, go after the gadhafi loyalists. more importantly, try to go after gadhafi himself. >> arwa, one other quick question. if there's a no fly zone which there is, you're saying some senior commanders believe maybe they're trying to fight to retake airport so that gadhafi or family members could get out by aircraft. but if there's a no fly zone wouldn't nato jets be able to shoot down any aircraft that took off from there? >> reporter: well, it's not necessarily that they could actually retake the airport and then fly one of the planes that's located here. it's more so that they can clear a land escape route for them. they're speculating that gadhafi would be trying to via land either go to the central south or swing up to his hometown sirt located just to the east. >> i want to also bring in -- arwa stay with us but i want to bring in from the "new york times" john burns who's spent a lot of time in libya, reported from there a lot of time. john, do you think there's a good chance that gadhafi may have actually been at the rixos hotel where all those journalists, matthew chance and others were being held. why do you think that? >> well, first of all let's say something clearly here about gadhafi. we're dealing with a man who is delusional, who has been in the estimate of a number of people who have met him in the last 20 years bordering on edge at times of insanity. i personally was kicked out of libya a few weeks ago for using the word whacko in a piece about gadhafi's behavior. so trying to project what he might do or where he may be is extremely difficult. the best we can say is this is an extremely quirky character who might do anything. but if you ask me to bet, we know now that he's very unlikely to be in the rixos. that was a possibility until the last guards keeping those journalists there in effect defected and handed over their weapons. that makes it highly unlikely that he would be in any sub terranean complex there close to the family's ties are to that hotel. his son, said islam gadhafi was actually the one who caused that hotel to be built, completed 18 months ago. i would say look at gadhafi, what's he saying? he's saying in effect, i hate to draw the analogy because in scope and scale and murderousness there's no comparison. but gadhafi shared one characteristic in common with adolf hitler, who died in his own bunker by his own hand, which is that he identifies himself with the libyan people. he is utterly resistant to any idea that there could be any separation of those two entities. he is libya. and he has said repeatedly that it is the duty of the people, something hitler also said in effect to die for him. my guess is that in his delusional state, as hard as it is to project what he might do, he'd be most likely to stay somewhere in that subterranean complex that is beneath and fans out from his command complex. but frankly who knows? >> arwa, if gadhafi did want to escape tripoli, you talked about a possible land route near the arm, what are his options? >> reporter: well, he most certainly would have to obviously be heavily reliant on a network of loyalists that would already be in place, and also currently have to navigate his way to make sure that he's not crossing through rebel-controlled territory. that being said, that is why rebel commanders also think that it is highly likely that he's wanting to go through the area to the east of this location because the rebels do not have control over it. and actually the rebel fighters were telling us that last night they believe they spotted a convoy that had an armored mercedes in it. they believe that gadhafi could have been traveling in that kind of a convoy. but again he would have to be incredibly reliant on a network of very, very loyal individuals to try to make his way through this country. because the rebels control a good amount of land here. they don't control all of it. but again it would have to be a very carefully planned and orchestrated operation. >> john, how important do you believe gadhafi being caught and captured and either killed or brought to trial is? i mean, both logistically but also symbolically how important is it? >> i think it's symbolically essential. and in fact, practically essential as well. this rebellion has

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