today. the motion to proceed -- they need 60. you think they get to 60? the democrats want 70 to put pressure on house republicans to take up legislation. i think they get to 60. i think they will get to the debate, no question. we have already seen the speaker of the house come out yesterday saying he would like to see movement on this issue. the house is not uninterested in what the senate does. they have their own way to do things. host: there will be amendments offered to strengthen border security. where do you come down on those amendments? if there is enough to include tighter security provisions and democrats walk away? guest: i think that is an overstatement. the bill backed amount initially does need some improvement. there were republicans like susan collins, who i do not think have looked at the bill and said, this is not good enough. of what the bill does at the moment is say we will leave its to border security for the plan. there is a place for improving the legislation and not every amendment should be viewed as a poison pill. this is how the senate works. you get things to the floor to get enough votes to pass it. of thehat do you think prospects of immigration reform happening before the 2014 election? senator buehrer says they do not have enough votes. the final passage, they do not have the 60 votes needed. i think that is a reflection of fact that there are amendments needed to , whether ithe bill is the eligibility for benefits or back taxes or other pressing issues that i think people ought i can stillr debate vote for the bill. it is not perfect, but i will pass it. this is our best chance in my memory for passing the immigration bill. the big difference with past efforts is that conservatives now owned this to a great extent. othering those who have aspirations. concerned -- they're saying, it is important that conservatives solve this issue, whether it is the economic or legal status issues. that changes the dynamic drastically host: chuck grassley voted for it is today on the floor saying, what he has been saying all along, i'm not going to be fooled. they told us it would be amnesty and it did not work. how is this guest: different there is the notion that -- how is this different? guest: there is the notion that conservatives have to get in there and fix it. and not just border security. that alone will not solve the problem. it is real security issues, better economic policy -- policy. i really want to stress that. an meron based system instead of just reliance on the political immigration. naughty issue is always what to do with the undocumented. and what you say in the way of the requirements to burnie legalization? to earn legalization? will,eryone who is here in fact, become legal. those with felonies from misdemeanors, those who have committed infractions abroad simply cannot qualify. prettyse who do face a high bar. they pay fines, they learn english, they have to remain employed at a high level. the notion is about those criteria. what you do to make this work in the future and have legitimate penalties for those who have broken the law? host: you have been on the record already saying there are economic benefits to immigration reform. you have testified about the numbers. review for their viewers are you see this as an economic benefit. the of thekey is for population. people like me have a birth rate that is too low to keep the population growing. all of our future population growth, our labour force growth, our work force for the future will be driven by immigration decisions. immigration reform is that opportunity to say we want to compete globally and have a world-class labor force. and we have never done that as a nation. we have always used a political status as the foundation for who comes to the u.s. under 10% of our visas are granted for economic reasons. to change that and the road decide to compete internationally, no other theyry does what we do, used economic reasons for immigration policy. you can raise gdp growth by a percentage point over the first and years. you can raise incomes per capita by about $1,500 after 10 years. you can solve budget problems by the trillions of dollars. host: explain that last part. guest: if you grow more rapidly, two things happen. you raise tax revenue and you spend less on social net programs. those are great things. any policy that helps that is a great idea. host: if your rights income explain how this increases the wages of american citizens guest:. there's a fair concern about how the if no workers show up, then somehow competition goes up and wages go down. there are two things to rembert about the global marketplace. number one, it is global. and we are already competing with the workers in indonesia. and the fact that we move them across an ocean or across the state does not change the competition. we will not see wages go down just because we can see the competition. is out there already. and secondly, when everyone is competing on a playing field betteris level, we have work regulations. that is a better form of competition down one that is done over ground -- underground or overseas. host: the herald came out and disagreed with you. it had a very different take on this. guest: yes. host: explain what you think about their numbers and how it differs from what that -- from what research you did. guest: there are 1 million different disputes. the two big differences are, number one, it very clear look at before and after. the study i did was about what happens if you change our immigration policies, and vast growth rates and gdp growth rates. the heritage foundation does not look at a change in the law. they just say, look, there are illegal immigrants and the cost money. and they include in their numbers the cost of schooling for children born here. the those are u.s. citizens. that has nothing to do with changes in immigration law. as a result, you get a mixture of the facts. the second thing is what you scrubs -- where you scrub about immigration. the heritage foundation emphasizes the welfare programs, the social security from the medicare been too expensive in the future. that has nothing to do with immigration. if we had a native baby boom, those same concerns would arise. that is a striking call for reform, not immigration. role labrador, a conservative, i was part of the negotiations. and he says he has dropped out and will not support anything comes upect -- backing with. to detailedagree language on group care, they decided essentially to punt the issue. guest: we have already established at the level of the supreme court that emergency care will be provided to anyone who walks in. that it's not really an issue in this debate. there is a fair and legitimate issue about the affordable care act. it is an expensive new entitlement. there are serious concerns about whether this nation can afford it. i would endorse those concerns. it needs to be looked at carefully. quite frankly, the problem in the house is not with roel labrador and the republicans. it is that a big piece of the democratic caucus believes there everything they can think of. that is not a realistic approach. most people think that is not fair and not affordable. democrats will have to move on what eligibility criteria will be. host: and does the senate have a more realistic view in your opinion? with: yes, they started the same, we are not just checking a box thing that everyone get everything. we are going to figure out a timetable to earn those benefits. remember, if you are here illegally under the senate bill, you have to -- if you are here senate bill,r the andhave to pay back taxes you cannot have committed any crimes. an annual over the process of 10 years earned the right to become a lawful citizen and you will have full benefits, but not automatically host: the senate is taking of immigration reform legislation this week. there will be a motion today. our coverage starting at 2:00 p.m. we're here to take your phone calls, your comments, your questions about immigration reform. are their estimates of how many folks might be hired to process these 12 million illegals? there probably are, and although i am tempted to memorize every never, i do not know what it is. the important thing is to recognize that in all of those discussions about the house and senate, the bill will contain the financing for that. yes, it is going to take some additional employment in the government to handle the processing, to run an employment verification system, to do some things that i think are underappreciated in their importance to keep track of entry and exit on tours and work visas. that is a big source of the undocumented right now. that is how some of the 9/11 terrorists got into the u.s. there is some more machinery to make this work. it will cost some money, but those fees being paid by those coming to the u.s. will be covering it. host: john, he republican caller. finish please let me what i have to say, if you would. 11 million. is not there is like 30 million. they cannot even count them when they have the sentence because they hid in the house. because they had hidden in the house. income taxes.ying $1,500 back taxes to be paid over 10 years is a joke. $6 trillion, that is what the heritage foundation came up with. that is the deficit on the taxpayers. host: let's get a response. guest: these are important considerations. one is, how many undocumented are here? and because they are undocumented we do not know. most estimates are around 11 million or 12 million. and most estimates are that the population has diminished in recent years because of the poor economy in the u.s. costs.re no one should believe this is going to be free. it is not. there are benefits as well. you have to weigh the costs and benefits. but $6 trillion over 50 years is about to send out of every federal dollar we are spending. even if you believe that number -- i think it is way too big -- is it worth it? we have to compare the benefits and you have to come down somewhere. two things get simultaneously said that cannot both be true pretty either immigrants will compete with workers, or they will be sitting on welfare collecting federal dollars, but it cannot be doing both. many people have this view that they're both stealing our jobs and taking our weather -- our welfare. neither can be simultaneously true. twitter -- guest: last time i checked for all politicians want people to vote for them there is a political party this debate. there is much discussion about republican scorching and hispanic vote through their pursuit of immigration reform. there's probably -- according the hispanic vote through their pursuit of the immigration reform. there's probably a grain of truth in there. this is an effort to continue his average from conservatives to hispanic communities. it is based on the notion that there are many commonalities. issueics are not a one vote. the karradah more than just immigration. -- they care about more than just immigration. caller: this is from the post on thursday. guest: i think it is a broad congressional discontent with the executives over use of power. they have done things unilaterally that japan done through legislation -- that should have been done through legislation. secondly, we're discussing immigration reform. if we want to change the status of dreamers or anyone else, it is being done through legislation. let's put a hold on things this administration is doing unilateral and for its own political advantage. host: good morning, you're on the air. go ahead. caller: they have been telling us on both sides of the aisle that there are 12 million to 20 million illegals and now they tell us there are fewer than there were. i'm retired on a fixed income and my taxes just went up to 40%. fromchool district went 10% hispanic 20 years ago to 80% today. i do not know how they expect retired people to keep up with real estate taxes. there are not 11 million illegals. i'm telling you, someone needs to figure out how many are here. i do not think they can. guest: again, lots of efforts to count the number of folks here illegally. most efforts say around 11 million or 12 million, but you do the best you can prove there is no science fair. can.e best you there is no science there. the up-front costs are often borne by the states and localities. making sure we figure that into the calculation is important. host: here is a tweet. can we learn anything from immigration laws in europe, particularly germany? guest: i think the answer to that is yes. europeans are among those that have been most aggressive to opening borders to labor flows and indeed he about immigration as an economic policy. germany stands out as an advanced industrial the economy that has maintained high levels of productivity and economic growth in very bad circumstances. that is in part due to their willingness to do the kinds of things that we are contemplating here now host: what are the economic benefits? guest: two benefits. number one, more numbers. more people can make more staff. and as you grow more rapidly, you get the opportunity to make the latest technologies in every factor -- in every factory. that is a bonus. and you get the kinds of workers that you need. getting a skill mix is a center of debate. what can we do with high-tech visas in the u.s.? we have shortages of engineers and the like and as a result, we're seeing jobs go overseas simply due to the absence in the labor supply. host: and those countries like germany, are they attracting these high skilled workers because of the policies? host: illinois, republican caller. caller: i think we are passing out a tremendous opportunity by up this opportunity with mexico. mexico have a lot of criminals and it would be easy for us to and their reach. -- you can only do that host: i will get two responses to what he was saying. guest: this is why immigration is such a hard issue pretty cover security, legal, economic, and you can use it as a tool of international diplomacy in trying to secure a better neighbor on the southern border. the question is, what priority do you put on different issues? think passage inevitably involves the disgruntled. nobody gets everything they want. you improve things in many dimensions, but nothing -- no program is perfect. we will see that when the debate begins host: and that gets underway on the floor of the senate at 10:00 a.m. one plan would require bio metric systems and all land and sea ports. guest: don't count the votes title.heir the we will see. whether you like that thereular thing or not, is support for strengthening the bill. people come in legally to study and to work. if we fixed those visas, we fix that problem. host: good morning, robert. caller: i am a navy that and my bad and- my dad was a my grandfather was a vat and which really did not fight for -- my dad was a veteran and my grandfather was a veteran and we surely did not fight for mexico. was a man standing up for freedom. we have lost all of this. if you think my friends have not lost their jobs, i have seen it. i am watching my friends lose their jobs. all, thank you for your service. my father was also in the navy. the navy families stick together. on the labor front, i think there are two real concerns. any bill is going to take a long time to implement. -- how do we not judge policy by current circumstances? we're coming out of this economic recession in a very slow and painful fashion. but i do not think that is the right way to measure immigration form. and we have always created jobs in the u.s. we have gone from a nation of 13 to a nation of 50 states of host: here is a tweet. guest: the difficulty is you have to give the employer a chance to comply with a lot. right now, there are too many employers trying to do the right thing, but because of the absence of the verification system and tamperproof of identification, they cannot. it is not fair to enforce something that is not enforceable. karl, democratic caller. caller: i believe this is really just about economics for corporations. the wages are going down. they can sit there and say they're not, but the same people who are opening the floodgates to the illegals are the ones that are saying we need to do something about it. they're the main some -- the main ones passing it. most americans are working three and four and five times higher -- order. why? because wages are going down. you have no other choice to make ends meet. you bring a person over here that is used to making 30 or -- $30 or $40 or $50 a month and you offer them $1,000, $2,000 a month in a job that you may be paid somebody else $3,000 a month. what is he going to do? he's going to go with the person that he can get for $1,000. that is basically what i'm calling to say. corporate interests are real. they have talked about the need for a particular skills, a temporary worker programs, and to make the system more responsive to economic conditions. the that is the upside. there's also a downside. in a recession, there are fewer immigrants. we do have minimum-wage laws. we do have lots of labour force projections and everyone who comes to the u.s. will comply with that. and there is a third piece to this that i think is real and legitimate. we have seen the median income in the united states all during this recovery. we have seen a prolonged stress on wage growth in the u.s. but that has nothing to do with immigration. we have other problems we need to solve as well. host: you are on the air. caller: i agree with the last caller, driving down the wages. it is pretty obvious. and you cannot get a job if you do not speak spanish sometimes. what i wanted to call about is that when law-enforcement stops because of a reform bill, how many illegal alien criminals will just not come forward or remain unregistered? the the learning in this provision will not really be enforced, i'm afraid. it is in there just to get votes. common concern is that a lot will somehow me -- be meaningless because it will not be enforced. i think that is a sad commentary on how people view this issue. we should pass the law and enforce it. and i think it is important to pass laws that are enforceable. and we have books on -- we have laws on the books right now that our. -- that are. there are those who have committed felonies in the u.s., crimes abroad, mr. gleaners, and they will not -- misdemeanors, able to goll not be through this process. they will be deported. host: ashleigh parker posey peace talks about what the "the new york times" says our present bills. and ran paul wants congress to write and come up with a plan for border security rather than having homeland security do it. and then you have the ear and income-tax credit, barring illegal immigrants from asking the earned -- from asking for the year in income tax credit from the irs. ask for anpected to amendment that would require immigrants to pay back taxes as they proceed toward legal status. and then you have gunmen that gun bans that would also come up. and same-sex partners. senate -- senator leahy was going to offer this during the debate this week. and in borders of -- order defense, more rubio said he could not support the current legislation, which he helped draft. and to that end, -- what do you make of all of this? guest: a simple issue, right? [laughter] it is worth reminding ourselves all the time that we are a nation of immigrants and people have tax issues, benefit issues, such -- gun issues, social issues. it is all wrapped into the immigration debate. i do not think it is fair to accuse anyone of offering the amendment -- to accuse anyone offering the amendment of trying to introduce a poison pill. whethere debates over -- over various concerns, whether it is security or making sure taxes get paid. these are all of the issues of the day that wi