business, making business. this is a dirty game and it couldn't be done at the detriment of the syrian people. and i said it. whether we are talking about one victim or 10,000 victims this is a huge price that the syrian people are paying. if everybody commits to putting an end to the violence by tomorrow morning, 6:00, timing of damascus, yes, we e on the ght trk, nber one number two, the... >> rose: the right track that could bring a change in the government of syria, including the president? >> up to the people's will. it's not up to qatar's will, it's not up to saudi arabia will it's not up to united states will, it's not up to sarkozy will. it's up to the syrian people will. >> rose: we conclude this evening with golf and the winner of the masters, bubba watson. >> when i got to the course, beau van pelt shot 64. so you heard a bunch of roars and sunday at the masters is waysild,always great. great theater so i eagled both hole on the back nine before. three putted the first hole but birdied the second hole after he double eagled so i was just focused on what i had to do. i didn't think about catching him right away, tried to play steady, play my game and make some birdies coming down the stretch and somehow i did. so i've gist changed and realized that golf is not that big a deal. 's gotten me some great things grt press, some fame, some money, but it's let me do things that are important to me. doing junior tournaments, giving back to my community of pensacola. doing these great things. winning a golf tournament is great but doing these other things outside of golf is what it's all about so i put all that together. >> ambassador to the united nations from syria and the winner of the masters in 2012 when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: the ambassador of syria to the united nations, bashar ja'afari is here. his government announced today it will stop all fighting beginning thursday mornin damcus me in compliance with the u.n. cease-fire. but the regime said it retain it is right to defend itself against what it calls armed terrorist groups. so far, syria has failed to meet a u.n. deadline to withdraw forces from major cities. an activist continued to report attacks by government forces in parts of syria today. speaking from tehran, united nations special envoy kofi annan still expressed optimism that the cease-fire would take place. >> there has been further clarification from the syrian authorities that what they mean and want i an assunce that the other forces, the opposition forces would also stop the fighting so that we can see cessation of all violence and we have been in touch with them and have had positive answers for them to ensure that all parties respect the cease-firend ensure that by... if everyone respects it, i think by 6:00 on thursday 12th, 6:00 in the morning on thursday the 12th we should see much improved situation on the ground. >> rose: kofi annan is scheduled to brief his security council via video conference tomorrow. the united nations estimates at least 9,000 have died since the uprising began in march, 2011. ambassador bashar ja'afari joins me now. i am pleaseto have him on this program. >> thank you very much, i am pleased to be with you, charlie, and thanks for having me. >> rose: tell me whether you believe this cease-fire will work. >> i have listened carefully to your representation and allow know bring some corrections. >> rose: okay. >> if you will. number one, it's not about cease-fire, it's about putting an end to the violence. s in the language used in the presidential statement of the security council as well as in the six-point plan of mr. kof nnan himself. when you say cease-fire that means you are in an armed conflict between two parallel parties, which is not the case. because in syria we are going through a crisis, dramatic crisis, but it is a crisis. it's not an armed conflict between two armies or between two countries or between two neighbors. there is a big difference diplomatically and politically speaking between the two terms. this is number one. number two, my government is a responsible government and this is why we're asking mr. kofi annan to get everybody on board. everybody should be committed to the successful... to the success of mr. kofi annan's mission. syria is on board officially speaking. we notified that officially speaking this morning to the president of the council, the american ambassador, as for the security regime of the united nations, mr. ban ki-moon. we are o boa offiall speaking both through the capital, damascus, as well as through the permanent delegation of syria to the united nations represented by my... what we are suggesting is that mr. kofi annan since he is the mediator entrusted by the security council as well as by the secretary general and the so-called international community and since he got official written commitments from the syrian government so he should also get in touch with the other parties involved in this dramac crisis we are going through. so that he will get similar commitments, similar guarantees that everybody will be on board of this mission in order to enable to him succeed. he is the one who should get back to the syrian authoritys with such guarantees because he is the one who committed himself to the syrian government that he will get in touch with the other parties. meaning armed groups as well as cntries becaus the syrian crisis has-- if you allow me we can elaborate later on-- three dimensions. and arab dimension and an international dimension. >> rose: all right. let me say with respect, many people are characterizing this as a cease-fire. i'll read you now the first sentence of a bbc news middle east report. "syria will end military operations on thursday state t.v. has said. the day a cease-fire brokered by the u.n.-arab league enindustry to syria is scheduled to come into effect." sohe ia of a cease-fire is conventional wisdom in terms of most people as they view this. >> this is a loose interpretation charlie because this is not the dramatic language used by the security council or... in the syrian government in its negotiations with mr. kofi annan. it doesn't matter. i'm not contesting whether this term is valid or not. i'm saying that legally speaking there is a big fence between declaring a cease-fire and putting an end to the violence. in our case we committed ourselves to put an end to the violence at least by the syrian government forces and, of course we are on alert. the syrian forces are on alert to counterattacks any attacks by the armed groups on... private and public facilities, on the syrian armies, on the civilians. so we are a sovereign state and we agreed on that with mr. kofi annan himself. >> rose: i say, as i think you're making the point, the announcement by stat t.v. made no mention ofr. annan' cease-fire plan. made no mention of it. >> okay. >> rose: syrian television. also there's this. a spokesman for the main rebel force, the free syrian army, said the cease-fire was unlikely to take effect. "i don't believe our forces will stop shooting because the other side won't stop." this captain said in a bbc interview on the turkey/syrian border. "if the other side stopped the syrian people would march on the president's palace on the same day. this means the regime won't stop >> i woul't comment on such simplistic language and irresponsible behavior by some... >> rose: the free syrian army. >> the people you are referring to. they are not a free army and they are not real syrian people caring about their own countries. >> rose: that's what i want to get at. how would you characterize and how do you define these people who are dying in opposition and in a fight against the syrian government? >> i wouldn't blame personally speaking these defectors from the army as well as members of the armed groups sponsored armed by countries in the area such as qatar, saudi arabia, and turkey. i wouldn't blame them because i think they are all victims of this country's interference in our domestic affairs. i would say very simply that we should blame those who are manipulating these. >> rose: and who is that? >> qatar, saudi arabia, and turkey mainly speaking. these three countries are sponsoring the armed groups. >> rose: sponsoring them in what w? >> financially speaking, sending them weapons, sending them media coverage. >> rose: they deny that. >> testimony saudi minister for foreign affairs, charlie, declared publicly in cairo during the arab ministerial meeting that saudi arabia is going to arm the syrian opposition. he said it publicly in cairo and then he left the meeting in a sign of protest against the meeting because the other minister didn't comply to his requests. >> rose: there clearly is a war going on in your country, yes? >> rose: it's not a war. it's not a civil war. it's a crisis. it's about armed groups undertaking military operations against the public and private facilities in the country. against civilians, against the army itself. i have myself notified in an official letter twrin the security council a list of most 2,088 military officers killed by the armed groups, plus 497 police officers. so here we are talking about something like 2,600 military and police working for the state who got killed. who killed them? they got killed by the armed groups sponsored by some arab countries and some regional nations. >> rose: do you believe you can kill your way out of this? >> it's a pity. it's a pity. whetheit is one vctim or 10,000 victims it's a pity. every single drop of syrian blood is a pity. we are extremely painful with this issue. this is why we declared our approval of the end of violence because we would like to save our own people. >> rose: now, you have had two supporters in the council: china and russia. at the same time, they both have urged you to push forward with this cease-fire but others say it's gone too far. that there's no return. that this governmentis a a place that it cannot come back and the negotiations are not possible. so what do you say to that? >> those who are casting some doubts about the credibility of the syrian government's position are, in my opinion, the ones to be blame because they are not careful about putting an end to the violence. they are incited to the violence through all means... by all means. but the point is that these same parties are mainly speaking responsible for this incitement to this violence. i will tell you why. the syrian government notified officially speaking mr. kofi annan of his approval of his six-point plan on the 26th of march. on april 1, the turkish government held a meeting in istanbul calling... working first against kofi annan's mission because they called in that meeting for sponsoring the opposition, external opposition, arming the opposition, inciting to violce,payg salaries to these defectors and the armed groups members. so everything in that meeting in istanbul was against what kofi annan was calling for. so although the syrian government agreed on the 26th, the meeting was held on april 1 and was exactly running against what mr. kofi annan was saying. >> rose: with respect, others suggest the syrian government has been backtracking from its agreement and making new demands up until today as to what it would do and secondly as ko annan suggested, you were supposed to begin withdrawing and that has not taken place. >> no. this is not an accurate explanation of what's going on. the dates fixed by both the security council and mr. kofi annan is april 12. on april 12, the syrian government will stop the... will put an end to the violence by the syrian governmental forces. >> rose: but were you not supposed to begin pulling back earlier? the morning of april 12 is the deadline. we pulled back and we notified mr. kofi annan specially speaking more than ten times about partial pullbacks from the cities-- homs, damascus idlib. we informed him. i have copies of these letters. we have informed the security council as well as mr. kofi annan about this pulling back of the weapons and... in implementation of item two of his plan. >> rose: there are those who argue, as i flecd earlier, tt th killi syrians by the syrian government has gone so far that this government cannot stay in power. the only thing it can do to remain in power is to suppress the people within its own country and to continue the killing. otherwise they will be eventually engaged in a civil war which imperils their existence. >> that was the initial plan set up by the enemies of syria. >> rose: the enemies of syria are syrians, are they not? >> not all of th are syrians. not all of them. some of them get instructions from the countries where they live, where they are hosts. >> rose: you're suggesting these are not rebels who, in fact, are trying to overthrow their own government but in fact are people working on behest of other governments? >> not all of them, some of them. i'm talking about some wings of the external opposition. but this is not the point. the point is that while assessing the situation in syria the same governments who are ying that the syrian government has failed a respecting the safety of its own people, the same guys are from the beginning we are betting on the fact... on the fact that the syrian government will fail. it's about changing the government in syria. it's not about reforming or helping the syrians to reform their own countries. from the beginning their agenda, the agenda of these people outside syria both individually speaking as well as officially speaking, some governments, all of them we workingonan agenda which is based mainly speaking on overthrowing the government in syria and changing the country, changing the state because the whole issue is about changing the geopolitics in the area. it's not about reforming syria because we all want our country to be reformed. we have a lot of corruption and we are against this corruption. we would like to get rid of this corruption. >> rose: hasn't it gone beyond corruption? it has gone now to the fact that the government haille its own tize andillethem in a terribly brutal way and especially in homs where there's video of this happening. and when that happens a government puts its on a journey of no return. >> as i said at the beginning it's a painful situation for every syrian, including the syrian government. a government wouldn't kill its own people. this is wrong, charlie. >> rose: but they have! >> no government on earth would kill its own people. >> rose: but you don't deny that they have and they've done in the a brutal way. >> no. some of the rebels were usi civilians in homs as human shields and this is why sme innocent people got killed in the exchange of fires. but this is not the responsibility of... the exclusive responsibility of the government. when foreign journalists and reporters sneak into the country chren destinely... >> rose: they do that because they're not welcome to come in. >> absolutely not. we provided 400 visas to international reporters and international media agencies. i have a list. >> rose: the ones who sneaked in sneaked in because they couldn't t in otherwise. >>theyhoulhave waited until the syrian government tells them... gives them the green light. >> rose: but the people were dying. this is the kind of story... you can't keep journalists from not wanting to report a story when they know what's happening on the ground. >> we are not keeping journalists away. >> rose: but you were at one time. >> we are a sovereign state, charlie. people should get into the country with a visa, we are not a banana republic. people should understand that syria is a sovereign state. there are laws to be respected. there are regulations to be respected. those who sneak into the untr withouthe syrian gernment's approval, they were working in favor of framing the government, furnishing its image and providing wrong information to public opinion outside of syria. so the government didn't know that they were there. we... the government didn't know and they were inciting the people inside some civilian buildings towards resisting the government and continue the uprising. so somebody is working against the interest of the syrian people as a whole, i'm saying. >> rose: who are you saying is meone? >>. >> you may agree with me that the french authorities, for instance, said publicly that they were supportive of overthrowing the regime in syria. >> rose: a number of political leaders around the world have said that the president should go if. including... >> including? >> rose: the united states. >> this is wrong. this is unlawful. this is against international law. nobody has the right to tell mr. obama to step down. >> but they're not saying they ve the right t do i but they're sayg the circumstances have gone so far, you know, that the president... that they think the president will seriously consider giving up power because of how far the government has gone in the exercise of putting down this rebellion. >> those-- whether they are in the united states or france or turkey or qatar or saudi arabia-- who are really careful about the syrian people's interests, they should help the government putting an end to the violence rather than distributing arms, holding conferencesn... onheir o territories for the syrian external wing opposition providing money, providing weapons to the syrian opposition military wing. if they were really careful about helping the syrian people, they would do that. they wouldn't interfere. >> rose: do you believe president obama is trying to interveer in the affairs in syria? >> not now. >> rose: and secretary of state clinton? >> not now, but couple months ago, yes, somebody was giving wrong advice to mr. obama so that they wanted him to get involved. i will give you an example. two senators were yesterday on the syrian/turkish borders. >> rose: john mccain. >> yes, and mr. lieberman. >> rose: joe lieberman. >> and both of them called, publicly speaking, for arming the opposition. >> rose: that's not new for them. they've... >> this is wrong, charlie. this is wrong. this is against... this runs against international law. >> rose: why do you think they did that? >> >> for their domestic agenda. they have personal agendas. >> rose: you don't think it has anything to do with their own sense of outrage about what they perceived to be the circumstances? syria? >> i don't think so. if they were careful about sere t syrian people's interests and syrian blood they would have helped us get back land occupied by israel since 1967. in the golan there are syrians who live there and they need freedom and democracy and they need to live with their brothers and sisters and their main mother homeland. so we need people to understand that syria is somehow a victim of what's going on because of what i said at the beginning, there are three dimensions of the cry us. the arab dimension, international dimensions. >> rose: cut sr. an arab country. >> yeah, but qatar is working for non-arab agenda. the proof is they they helped nato funding libya. >> rose: the prime minister of qatar came here, talked to me and the time and tried to spearhead a unid nations response. >> rose: this gentleman with all due respect is the real outcome of the changes by force, by the nato, and qatar helped nato killing 150,000 libyan civilians. so qatar isn't working for an arab agenda. >> dave: who's working for an arab agenda. tell me who you think. you don't think saudi arabia is. iran is not an arab state. where is egypt on this? >> i will tellyou someing. most of the arab countries are currently speaking broken by the so-called... >> rose: arab spring. >> by the so-called arab spring. >> rose: most people think what's happening in syria is an extension of the arab spri