deal, the house. >> at the end of the day, i think we're going to have to pass a bill. that's the view of many of us. >> only accurately see what this is a precursor to. >> it changes the very nature of social security. >> our special guest, congressman rush holt. most importantly, republicans are now enraged about the war on christmas vacation. >> it is impossible to do all of the things that the majority leader laid out without doing, frankly, without disrespecting the institution, and without disrespecting one of the two holiest of holidays for christians and the families of all of the senate. >> chris hayes on new noise about not raising the debt ceiling without cuts and the war on christmas vacation. quantico, it's the new gitmo. the alleged wikileaks source, bradley manning, is in the brig, in solitary in conditions that are being compared to torture. our guest, fbi whistle-blower, colleen rowly. and the little child shall lead them. the arizona 13-year-old raising money to get a liver transplant for jan brewer death panel victim, francisco felix. >> i'm only a 17-year-old kid trying to help another kid live another day. >> our guest, carlos olivos you're. crash and burn, sarah palin's book sales plummet another 29% on top of last week's plummet. >> and which word is he saying here, censure or censor. he claims censure. >> and i think we that we also should be censoring the american news agencies which enabled him. >> all the news and commentary now on "countdown". >> we need to have an honest conversation. good evening from new york. this is wednesday, december 15th, 692 days until the 2012 presidential election. and to that point, the white house says that congressmen couldn't know firsthand, because the president has not spoken to him about this, nor said this to him about any of this, but congressman peter defazio of oregon is tonight saying that the mr. obama is, quote, making phone calls, saying this is the end of his presidency if he doesn't get this the bad deal, end quote. that, the context for the fifth story tonight, after blasting senate democrats for caving to president obama's deal with the gop and a two-year extension of the bush tax cuts for the richest americans, and a lower estate tax even than president bush had. house democrats are now standing their ground. at least until tomorrow, when they're expected to cave too. today's vote was in the senate, 81-19, an overwhelming and bipartisan majority. five republicans on the right joined 14 democrats on the left in imposing the bill including senator jim demint. demint, however, not opposing the bill with any of his trademark stalling tactics, tactics he only unleashed after his no vote. his actual stalling on further votes for don't ask, don't tell and the s.t.a.r.t. treaty leading senate majority leader reid to warn that he will call the senate back into session between christmas and new year's. >> i hate to report all of this to you, but, you know, there's still congress after christmas. so if the republicans think that, because they can stall and stall and stall, that we take a break, we're through, we're not through. congress ends on january 4th. so we're going to continue working on this stuff until we get it done. >> this prompting republican senator jon kyl to cry blasphemy over the concept of the war on christmas vacation. >> it is impossible to do all of the things that the majority leader laid out without doing -- frankly, without disrespecting the institution, and without disrespecting one of the two holiest of holidays for christians. >> and the ironic humor, in the republican claims of a democratic war on christmas vacation, drained away quickly by a report in "usa today" on the real christmas war american families are fighting, a war to clothe their kids. the newspaper reporting an all-time high in kids' letters to santa, asking not for toys, but for clothing. boots, winter coats. senate republican leader mitch mcconnell today unfazed by such struggles and mounting a new struggle on behalf of millionaires, trying again in vain to change the senate bill to make the tax cuts permanent, even on income above $250,000, this after warning the house just yesterday to not try to change the bill. whether house democrats will comply is still uncertain, although they are widely expected to pass this bill tomorrow, without changes. there has been talk of trying to increase the estate tax, or as our next guest, congressman rush holt would like to see, swapping the cut in the social security payroll tax for another form of tax credit. karl rove's group, crossroads, now up with ads targeting a dozen house democrats to approve the senate bill as is. the president, on the same page in this case as mr. rove and his message to house democrats this afternoon. >> mr. president, do you want the house to pass the senate version of the tax bill with no changes? >> yes. i want -- i want them to get it passed as soon as possible. >> this as a new poll finds two out of three americans do not think the hole in our deficit will help our economy. only 36% said it will help. 43% said no impact, is their prediction. 17% saying it will hurt. how could it hurt? as we reported yesterday, the ratings agency moody's says the tax cuts could force them to reconsider america's credit rating for the first time in history. the council on foreign relations in a new analysis today warning that the debt increase "could spur higher u.s. brothering costs and greater dependence on sur plug countries like china." sherrod brown tried to get bipartisan support to attach to the tax cut bill, a deal that had already passed the house, that would address china's manipulation of its own currency, which keeps the prices of chinese product well below that of u.s. competitors. even though such a move would create jobs estimated in the hundreds of thousands, the administration opposes it, depending on china to keep financing our growing debt. even sending the secretary of state there last year to vouch for america's credit. in new figures to today, the treasury revealed that china alone had acquired another $26 billion in u.s. debt and holds more than $900 billion in u.s. treasury. the treasury denying our request to reveal how much debt held by saudi arabia and possibly even iran. speaker pelosi's office telling "countdown," quote, we continue to discuss this issue of disclosure with treasury. as we reported last week, in 1974, the u.s. treasury got saudi arabia to start buying billions in u.s. debt in exchange for keeping it a secret. in a statement to "countdown" tonight, the treasury department announced, "treasury has been reporting this data in the same way for many years. in response to recent requests for additional detail about foreign holders of treasury securities, the treasury department general counsel is reviewing how this information is disclosed to the public." see, in the year 9,000 for more information. now, as promised, democratic congressman rush holt of new jersey joins us. much thanks for your time tonight, sir. >> good to be with you, keith. >> how will you vote tomorrow? >> well, we haven't yet seen how it's going to be tomorrow, but it doesn't look too hopeful. you know, a colleague of mine said, oh, don't think that congress will sacrifice its vacation for the middle class. i said, oh, no, we'll stay and do the right thing. now i have my doubts. >> you have talked, as i mentioned, an alternative to cutting the payroll tax that funds social security. would you explain why? >> sure. what this deal does is a lot more than just extending some tax cuts. it certainly is desirable to put more money in the pockets of americans and stimulate the economy that way. but by taking the 2% off of the social security tax and then replentyishing that lost revenue from the general funds, they do real damage to the very rationale of social security. social security, when it was passed in 1935, was a political master stroke. fdr and the other people had a hard time passing social security. and they came up with a very shrewd rationale. and that is that this is an insurance program that people have a sense of ownership for. and that has kept it alive in the face of really determined enemies over 75 years. now their saying, social security is on the table. it's on the table with amt and estate tax and whether or not the bush tax cuts cutoff is going to be $250,000 or $1 million, and it's on there with expensing of business appreciation -- depreciation. in other words, it's just another bargaining chip. well, if social security becomes just another bargaining chip, it's going to go away in no time at all. the political rationale, the support for it will unravel quickly. >> you told talking points memo of your concerns about social security and you said that they fell on deaf ears at the white house or were completely ignore ed. what history are you saying that mr. obama needs to know here and which advisers are you talking about? >> well, with no one in particular, i guess, keith. but in 1935, it really was a political master stroke to create social security. it's one of the great programs of america. two-thirds of seniors depend on social security for most of their livelihood. and that's not counting the the millions of surviving spouses of children and people with disabilities who depend on social security. it has stay aed alive, it has pd on time, nobody has missed a payment, it will be financially secure for at least a for more decades, and this is all because of the ingenious way it was set up as, not just as another government program, but as an insurance program into which people paid their money. and fdr said explicitly, roosevelt said explicitly, this is not to be funded from general taxation. and that has helped keep this program safe from, well, as i said, the determined enemies it has had over the decades. >> the quote with which i began this portion of the broadcast, "the hill" is the source of this, from congressman defazio. he said tonight that the president is making phone calls saying this is the end of his presidency if he doesn't get this bad deal. presumably, even in that quote, he's not saying the president called it a bad deal, from his perspective. but the gist of this, can you confirm any of that? >> i can't personally confirm that, no. i think there are some problems with the bill the way it shifts more of the burden of running our government on to the backs of middle income people, and a number of other things. and of course, the estate tax will provide tens of billions of dollars to a few thousand americans, if it goes through as proposed. those are, in my mind, fixable in a year or two. i don't like them, but if social security goes bad, that's bad for decades. >> indeed. democratic congressman, rush holt of new jersey. great thanks for your time tonight, and good luck with your project of protecting social security. >> thanks, keith. >> let's bring in chris hayes, also the washington editor of "the nation" magazine. good evening, chris. >> good evening, keith. >> two things to talk about here. the first one being washington seems to think we have a deficit problem. senate and house now rejecting tax increases as the solution to the deficit problem, whether or not there really is one. so other than asking superman to go to another planet and find the money, what would be the one and only remaining option to make up that shortfall? >> well, that -- that's as leading a question as the way the fiscal commission was set up, right? >> yes, exactly. i'm applying for the job on the next one. >> that's right. well, the answer is slashing spending. and slashing spending in ways, particularly going after the sort of backbone of the american social welfare state, which is, you know, medicare and social security, specifically, which are the broad social insurance. i think it's great that congressman holt stressed to the degree the in which they really are social insurance. going after the social insurance that we as a society have come together to provide that have provided tremendous benefits for millions of people for years, that is the core of -- that has been always the goal, from the liberty league going, you know, opposing social security with fdr to goldwater and the birch society and the right ring for seven years in this country has hated social security and it's hated medicare and it's wanted to get rid of both of them for as long as it's existed and that's always been in its sights. >> the second part of this, the debt to china, up by another $29 billion in the last month, and even to saudi arabia, this was an issue in 2008 and 2010. and if democrats now pass and the president now signs a bill that increases that debt by almost $1 trillion and nobody's going to reveal how much debt they're selling to the saudis, how is that not an easy to digest republican christmas president for 2012? >> well, here's the problem. there's such tremendous disingenuous around deficits and the debt. anyone -- first of all, the rule is no one in washington who talks about caring about the deficit actually cares about the deficit, almost without exception. it is a way of talking about other things that right now polls well. so you have to kind of like penetrate the rhetoric of the deficit and every time you hear the word, figure out what the person is really talking about. because in most cases, in nine times out of ten times, it's not actually about the deficit and debt, it's about going after medicare or social security or other anxieties about declining u.s. influence. the other thing to say here, china owns, $4 trillion of our debt is held by foreigners and a quarter of that is china. china is buying more and more of our debt as we issue more, but most of the debt is held by americans, and the big secret is most of it is held by wall street. it's in the big banks. it's in pension funds and in the big banks. and they're the ones that are actually driving this train much more than china is. >> let me turn again to this congressman defazio quote out of "the hill," where obama is saying if he doesn't get this, it's the end of his presidency. does that sound legitimate to you? do you know anything about that and what are the implications? because it sounds astonishing to me. >> yeah, i think that sounds hyperbolic to me, frankly. >> hyperbolic in mr. defazio's case or a statement of the president's? >> i don't know if the president's saying. if the president's actually saying that, it's hyperbolic. the president's trying to get a bill passed and scaring people into passing it. he may believe that, the people in the white house may believe that. i don't know whether or not they do. but i think a defeat here, there's no question there would be a news cycle or several news cycles of sort of histrionic rending of garments about how he couldn't get his deal through. but in the long run, something the president has said over and over again, good politics is good policy. and the question is, is this substantively good on the merits? and if you don't think it is, that shouldn't be foremost in your mind if you're casting a vote in the united states congress tomorrow. >> he had this choice between this defeat and a larger one later. he chose the larger one later. he'll get them both. chris hayes, the washington editor of "the nation," thank you, chris. if what the western nations are tig to do to julian assange is not evidence enough of how much of a nerve assange has hit, private bradley manning will be to you. the word used is torture, next 37. th. there you go. yeah. >> yeah, this is going really great. oh, this is actually not bad. >> how's that, eh? >> holy...spoons. >> introducing cisco umi. be together in high def on your tv. exclusively at best buy's magnolia stores. cisco. he is alleged to be the serviceman behind the wikileaks mother lode and his treatment in our name is alleged to be akin to torture. one of the man you've met here, his life-saving transplant reneged upon by the state of arizona. the bid to raise the money privately led by a 13-year-old, who will join us. more book sales data is in, and hers is in the same sinking boat as the book written by the kardashian sisters. and he said "scensor the media," he now claims he said "censure the media." great wine, great price. yellow tail. let it flow, let it flow, let it flow. yellow tail. ah, this is hey guys. what the eightsorry we're late. milk looks warm. finally got the whole gang together. maple brown sugar, strawberry delight, blueberry muffin. yeah, a little family reunion. 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[ female announcer ] mini-wheats® hot. keeps 'em full, keeps 'em focused. aren't absorbed properly unless taken with food. he recommended citracal. it's different -- it's calcium citrate, so it can be absorbed with or without food. also available in small, easy-to-swallow petites. citracal. the tactics sounddownright bushian. the message to an army private allegedly responsible for the biggest wikileaks revelations to date is simple. you try to be a whistle-blower, exposing the lies of war, then a kind of war will rain down on you. the soldier awaiting trial has been held for seven months in solitary confinement, a condition that many experts and nations view as torture or nearly so. army intelligence private first class bradley manning, believed to be the source of wikileaks' most high-profile releases earlier this year, has been held for seven months in solitary, this according to salon.com, citing several people directly familiar with manning's attention, as well as a quantico brig official who confirmed much of it. specifically, manning has been detained at the u.s. marine brig in quantico for five months, and for two months before that in a military jail in kuwait. he has been designated a maximum custody detainee, under no suicide watch. manning spends 23 out of every 24 hours alone in his cell. this has been true for seven months. he is prohibited from exercising in that cell, strictly monitored and enforced. he has denied prison basics like a pillow and sheets. medical personnel administer antidepressants regularly from prevent manning to mentally deteriorating due to the effect of such isolation. many experts equate solitary confinement with torture. and a 2006 bipartnership commission on u.s. prisons recommended the elimination of prolonged solitary confinement as tortuous conditions. what manning provided to an ex-hacker made its way to wikileaks. ostensibly filmed from one of two apache helicopters. but according to the guardian, the air crew seems to have falsely captured a firefight. a dozen people on the ground are killed, including two iraqis working for the reuters news agency. in july of this year, wikileaks released other information related to manning, the afghan war logs. "the new york times" called that an unvarnished ground level picture of the war in afghanistan that is in many respects more grim than the official portrayal. bradly manning faces charges of unlawfully transferring classified material to a nonsecure computer skpo to an unauthorized third party. a spokesman for manning's defense fund tells cbs news that manning's trial is for a from beginning. the army must complete a psychological evaluation first. in manning's defense, and prosecutors can't degree on who to conduct that evaluation. let's turn to former fbi agent and whistle-blower, colleen rowlrow ly. >> thank you. >> i can tell you in my 24 years a an fbi investigator and 13 yea