that you're looking at? >> i think it's the two major themes that have been rocking the markets for several weeks now. it's europe and the u.s. economy in. the case of europe you had a flare up of conference about the financial stability of their banking system. there was a report in "the wall street journal" that the federal reserve is scrutinizing the american subsidiaries of some european banks to make sure they're adequately funded. in europe there have been comments and rumors to the effect that some banks are having a bit of trouble to raise all the funds they need to fund their operations. in the united states we had reports that the u.s. economy is slowing down. since when did what happened in philadelphia mean so much for the economy? right now people are very sensitized to the risk that the u.s. is not just going to slowly, but sliding back into recession. they're scrutinizing every data point for that answer. >> the data points you were look up, some bump up in inflation numbers yesterday that could constrain the fed's ability to do more. what else are you looking at? the first claims on jobless numbers which are trending up? what about new huzing starts that was at a new low yesterday? >> that is true. the fact that the housing market is struggling is nothing new. i've been looking at the high frequency stuff like the weekly claims for unemployment insurance, like the weekly sales from chain stores. the information that we had into the first week of august was relatively positive. it was stronger than generally expected. to be sure not telling us that things were roaring along, but not consistent with the shrinking economy. that's why the numbers out of the philadelphia area on manufacturing yesterday were a cold shower because they are very up to date. i think the thing we worry about is a self-fulfilling prophecy of fear. the self-off in the marks while not perhaps fundamentally justified by the state of the economy freezes people in their tracks. people who don't want to buy that house. businesses don't want to hire. they want to put things off and wait a little bit. it makes it self-fulfilling. >> this feeds into the psychology. there's a political context to this as well. we have uncertainty. we have no action from washington. this is a lull. we know the president's going to be coming out after labor day with a big speech. is there a sense also that there's nobody in charge? not the white house, not congress, both parties? >> i think that a few weeks ago, definitely. one of the things that was driving the market down was a sense that things were getting worse and nobody in a position of power was able or willing to do anything about it. in the last week you could make it somewhat counterintuitive case that the weakness in the economy and the market is going to blast some sense into the heads of people here in washington. if you recall going back to 2008 it was like a dramatic sell off in the markets that forced congress to, you know, eat their -- swallow the medicine and pass the tarp bill. i don't think there's anybody in congress who feels great about that. everybody in congress they're looking at awful ratings in the polls. people who think they did a really bad job on the debt ceiling. the polls make it pretty clear that people are worried about jobs number one, jobs number two. this could actually perhaps galvanize congress perhaps through the supercommittee mechanism to find a way do deliver a bit more support in the economy through the next 12 months. cumming that with ten-year deficit control. >> greg ip from "the economist." thank you very much. and state and local governments grappling with the real life fallout from all of these numbers. joining us now governor haley barbour of mississippi. great to see you. thanks so much for joining us. we saw those pictures, those gripping pictures from atlanta, a line snaking around the building in sweltering heat in high heels and their sunday best clothes waiting for a job. i know in mississippi you've got real problems with child poverty, for instance, what are you seeing at home and how is this driving the political conversation? >> well, andrea, i've never seen a bigger disconnect between wall street and main street. the stock market and the real economy. i hear people talking about, you know, why is the -- why are stocks falling, why is there so much volatility? on main street they wonder why did stocks go up over the last two years. on main street while the recession has for a year and a half or so quit getting worse, it has not gotten appreciably better. and so these huge stock market prices which are being driven by some things that aren't typical to economic growth, companies have all this cash, they've cut their costs so they're very profitable. but on main street credit is very hard to get. small businesses that hire most people are being threatened by president obama with the largest tax increase in american history. which would fall heavily on employers. how do they hire more people when they're being told by the president i want to tax you with the biggest tax increase in american history? >> you've got that message, the republican message out there about the president's program. let's drill down on the republican contestants. >> andrea, it's more than the republican message. it's the reality in the heartland. it's the reality on main street. >> well, if the president is vulnerable on the economy, he's the incumbent, if all incumbents are, republicans and democrats in congress as well according to all of the polling. do you have any regrets about not running yourself? >> no. i made the decision based on personal factors. i've been around a long time as you know, andrea. somebody who's running for president has to be prepared to make a commitment that is to the exclusion of all else. in this case ten years. two years to run if you get elected you have to be prepared to serve two terms. i just didn't have that fire many the belly to say that i'm willing to commit everything i do for the next ten years to the exclusion of all else. >> rick perry certainly has -- fire in the belly. there are reports today that you've been advising him. are you advising rick perry on his campaign? >> no, i'm not advising any candidate. i haven't endorsed any candidate for the nomination. i didn't in 2008. don't intend to this time. i served with rick perry for seven and a half years. i have a high opinion of him. he's got a great record. but there are others who i've served with as well or got to know. rick santorum on in a minute. rick was elected to u.s. senate when i was chairman of the party. i have a high admiration for him. very capable guy. but i don't intend to take sides in the nomination contest, but i do intend to be very active next year. >> do you think that rick perry has to clean up his language? karl rove said what he said about ben bernanke is not presidential. others and also bob mcdonald who succeeded rick perry as head of the republican governors association was on with me this week and he doesn't agree that president obama may not love his country. he thinks that president obama is a patriot. what about rick perry refusing to say that he believes president obama loves the country? >> i think rick perry has to get prepared for the fact that he's going to be nitpicked by the liberal media league for everything that he says and he has to be very careful because anything that he says that can be taken out of context will be taken out of context. when you are a conservative, christian southerner, republican, you have to expect that. >> governor, with all due respect, it isn't the liberal media that's taken on rick perry. we're talking about karl rove, we're talking about bob mcdonald, we're talking about a lot of mainstream and conservative republicans, who say that what he said about the fed and ben bernanke and the president's patriotism was not appropriate, was not presidential. >> but as a candidate for president, my point is that rick perry is a candidate for president or haley barbour if i had run or mike huckabee if he had run, every one of us has to be prepared to be nitpicked by the mainstream media and so you've got to run your campaign learning to avoid that. >> does rick perry have to change his language if he wants to become a viable republican? >> i don't take it as offensive to say that we would not treat you nice. we treat you nice. we like you and we're proud to have you down here. that isn't exactly threatening language to most people. but, he has to understand in a position he's in as i talked about a minute ago, that's going to be nitpicked. it could be a good lesson. i thought president obama made a very good point when he was asked about this. he says when you start off running for president you have lessons to learn. this is a lesson that has to be learned that you're going to be nitpicked. >> what about saying that printing money is nearly treasonous? >> well, he is right about the policy. i wouldn't consider it treasonous. treason is a harsh word. it's actually the only crime that's described in the united states constitution or defined. but, printing more money is hurting this economy. >> i'm not debating the policy -- i'm just talking about language. talking about a capital crime, treason in the context of debating monetary policy. >> he is right on the policy. i would not have used that terminology. and i don't think it's the right terminology. but he is right about the policy. >> what about the whole question of succession when he said he actually proposed in his last campaign talking about succeeding from the nation. he joked about it today. do you think that that is an issue that might follow him around and is that appropriate for someone who's running to be president to have united states? >> if somebody thought he was saying that seriously a couple years ago, that would be one thing. but everybody knew then he was joking about it. my comment when i was asked about it, we tried that once. didn't work. we're not going to try that again. rick perry no more meant that. he's going to get nitpicked because he's the governor of texas. because the liberal media elite dislike george bush so much and he reminds them of him. as i say, conservative, christian, republican, southerner he needs to understand he doesn't have the liberty to say things loosely that somebody else might. >> governor, my sources tell me that leading republicans including mitch daniel, jeb bush and others are concerned. they don't -- they're not in love with mitt romney. they think rick perry may not be ready for prime time. they're not in love with michele bachmann. they're still talk about paul ryan. do you think paul ryan or anybody else will be in the field or is this the field? do you share any of those concerns that i've been told are real among other republicans? >> i haven't heard that from any of them. i hear it from the news media all the time. however, i don't think that the field is necessarily filled out. rick perry just got in about a week ago and has made quite a splash which would indicate that there's room for others. >> who might get? >> sarah palin certainly can wait later than anybody else. chris christie can probably wait later than most. i would think for congressman ryan it's harder just because of the enormous job he has in congress. and that there's so many people that are depending on him as the biggest legislative issue in congress is the budget spending deficit, debt and he's the chairman of the committee. do you think somebody else could get in? yes. do i know of anybody? no. >> do you think it's likely? >> i don't know of anybody. so because people do talk to me a lot about different things, i think i might have heard of it. but i don't think it's impossible. and as rick showed, you can get in late. this field reminds me of democratic presidential campaigns that i've watched in the past where there wasn't a real front runner and somebody who a year and a half before the election didn't seem to have a chance came out and won a nomination and in the case of bill clunt or jimmy carter got elected president. that could happen on our side even though we don't normally have a contest that looks like this. this time our contest looks more like some democratic contests in the past. >> indeed it does. great to see you. thank you very much. thanks for joining us. >> thank you, andrea. and still ahead, republican presidential candidate rick santorum he is in the race. and next, what happens if gadhafi actually goes? this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. let's take are look at hot spots overseas. we have learned that gadhafi is making plans to flee the country, possibly for due she sha. it is not clear if he will actually go. rebels surround the capital and the u.n. is preparing to evacuate foreigners trapped inside. in syria the president's forces are firing at thousands of protesters who poured into the streets. perhaps they were encouraged by the u.s. decision yesterday to finally call for assad to go. today european leaders are meeting to see if they'll follow president obama's lead. joining me now jane harmon. thanks so much for joining us. let's talk about syria. some republicans are criticizing the president for not working more quickly. there's very little sanctions that we can really do unilaterally. europe has yet to follow. >> europe is thinking about a fifth round of sanctions, which is the oil embargo with russia opposed to our position on syria, i somehow doubt europe's going to do the fifth round. we unilaterally imposed the oil embargo. i was there when hillary clinton said what we've been doing is getting others to be out in front reich turkey and saudi arabia and others. i'm very pleased that we are finally calling for the ouster of assad in sere yachl about 2,000 syrians have been gunned down by his government since this began. it's a tribal society. i'm worried about what comes next. i think we're getting to the end of this horrible struggle and the beginning of possibly another horrible struggle in syria. >> i interviewed bruce yesterday. one of the things as you well know a former white house and cia officer. one of the things he said is well known and you used to head the intelligence committee is that syria has an arsenal. for 25 years we've known that syria has an arsenal of chemical weapons and missiles that can reach pretty far. can get to israel. >> i don't think there is a military option. syria is providing and has more years save haven to hamas. this is destabilizing to hamas, which i think is a good thing. syria has been the back door from iran into lebanon. the chemical weapons have been used against the syrians themselves. assad's father gassed 10,000 people in '80s. compared to now that was worse. but that could still happen. again these weapons could transition into lebanon and possibly be used against israel or possibly go by ship elsewhere. yes, it's extremely worrisome and syria to me has always been a much more important focus for us than libya. now as you describe, andrea, libya is i think at the tipping point. >> one of your scholars said yesterday that in fact he's concerned about what's happening in syria that there aren't enough signs that there's a crack in the military regime. do you see signs? what are you seeing when you're there is that the regime itself? >> i haven't been there roontly. i was there five years ago or so. i don't know about the military. but i do know that the turks and the saudis are now very seriously focused on syria, urging regime change and they're influence in the region is huge. it's a tribal society. we have to understand that. the party of the assad's are only about 11% of the population. regardless of how cohesive the military may be right this minute, i think that things are changing very rapidly there. i'm even more concerned, though, about libya where you described the city of tripoli as surrounded. you said andrea a few minutes ago, you weren't sure what gadhafi would do. i think given his behavior over recent years and i've met him. you probably have too, i think it's hard to imagine that he would peacefully into goo exile and may be seeking safe haven for his family. i think we haven't seen the violent end of this yet. i'm worried that there are major arms still somewhere garrisoned in the south och the country. that's what i hear. the scud attack that was his attack the other day shouldn't -- i would guess is not a one off. we may see more of that. we may see him, you know, trying to do his maximum to go down in a blaze of glory which could be enormously harmful to his own citizens let alone the rebel fighters who are surrounding tripoli. >> jane harman president and ceo of the wilson center. thanks so much, jane. >> thank you, andrea. and too much texas trash talk? what is it about rick perry that's scaring some republicans? the politico briefing next on "andrea mitchell reports." yes, it's new beneful healthy fiesta. made with wholesome grains, real chicken, even accents of tomato and avocado. yeah! come on! 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[ woman announcing ] new beneful healthy fiesta. another healthful, flavorful beneful. could loose lips scare off voters? some republicans have worried that rick perry's shoot from the mouth style cold doom republican chans if he gets the nomination. lest talk about the perry campaign, the things he has said about su seeccession in the pas. what he said about the president not sure if president loves this country. who's concerned about this? >> it's suburban members, andrea, especially those that could be facing a tough election next year. keep in mind, there are a lot of conservatives in the house and a lot of members in congress from places from suburban chicago, even suburban austin and new york. this sort of texas cowboy talk frontier justice for ben bernanke doesn't go down well culturally in parts of the country. they think the cultural stuff needs to be toned down. >> we were just interviewing haley barbour. governor barbour does not agree with that assessment, although he does say that being new to the campaign, that rick perry has to get used to the nitpicking, his term, of course, that he's going to get on the campaign trail. >> tom cole who's from oklahoma who's been in politics for decades and is a very shrewd observer says perry's been playing at a high level in texas. he's now in the big leagues. this has been going from columbus to yankee stadium. there's nothing that can raep prep you for this. to governor barbour's point, i think governor perry is going to be strong in the south, he's got to make an adjustment in plays like new hampshire that are pivotal. >> are we missing something here? why are we so foused on perry, michele bachmann, whether sarah palin will get in. haley barbour said this looks like a democratic race. there is a front runner, presumably it's mitt romney. seems like a lot of people many the party haven't fallen in love yet. >> i think the fact that we're coming up on labor day and we have party activists and leaders pining for somebody else to run, says a lot about romney's status. there are folks that night other options. >> thank you very much. have a great weekend. >> don't miss the msnbc politico republican debate at the regan library three weeks from now wednesday, september 7th, at 8:00 eastern with nbc's brian williams moderating only right here on msnbc. we will be there with the show. up next, republican candidate for president rick santorum he'll be there, too. do you know this girl? we'll tell you why there is a massive effort tonight her. that's next on "andrea mitchell reports." my doctor told me calcium