armies of lobbyists and lawyers? or does it work for all the people. now the house of representatives is about to show us the worst of government for the rich and powerful. the house is about to vote on a budget deal, a deal negotiated behind closed doors, that would let traders on wall street gamble with taxpayer money and get bailed out by the government when their risky bets threaten to blow up our financial system. this is a democracy, and the american people didn t elect us to stand up for citigroup. they elected us to stand up for all the people. that s the bugle signaling charge. today the white house scrambled to contain the fod. just minutes before the scheduled vote, the white house took the dangerous move of taking direct aim at the warren wing of the party by declaring and campaign contributions, opening up the ÷÷ñaúfloodgates. first you give the keys to the bank and then you bail the banks out. we are not having that. i think the vote today shows that, shows the unity of the democratic caucus and republicans are going to have to go someplace else if this is the garbage they re going to put on the floor. it s both the quid and the quo, talking about corruption it s got money coming in to the democrats and republicans to pay for loopholes and shenanigans on wall street. senator warren took the floor again today to rally against the carve-outs for the big banks. here she is. a vote for this bill is a vote for future taxpayer bailouts of wall street. when the next bail-out comes, a lot of people will look back to this vote to see who was responsible for putting the government back on the hook to bail out wall street. why in the last minute, as you head out the door, and a spending bill must be passed, are you making it a priority to do wall street s bidding? who do you work for? wall street? or the american people? congresswoman edwards, i want to know what you see. you re the politician of the three of us. is this the future of the democratic party? z?jp go-along party that makes deals with the worst elements in our society and wall street? your thoughts? one thing the last election told us, it told us th!:[rñ amen people need to know we re prepared to get in there and fight for them, fight for their paychecks and their bank accounts. stop fighting for wall street and special interests. frankly, there s no question about it, this bill absolutely stinks. the american people know it. when i came into congress in i would never again vote to bail out big banks. while republicans in this congress take the american people down the bank road again. we will not do it. luke russert, it would take 50 or 60 votes to get this pass. who are your colleagues? what are they saying to you when they re voting for the bill? they would say this is a good bill go ahead, luke, i m sorry. they say it s a good bill because it leaves the democratic imprint on the funding through the rest of the fiscal year on everything with the exception of the department of homeland security. and they ll have the immigration fight in early march and the rest of the government is funded and they re not worried about shutdown politics. that s really their point. this is the best they can get before the super majority comes in next congress. however, what you do, you talk to other democrats who say, you know what, republicans have shown they have an awfully difficult time getting to 218 to fund the government on any priority. we re more than happy to go at it with them and go to the ring a few more times because it makes them look bad. i want to say one thing that i think is important when you talk about the future of the democratic party. when this was negotiated by harry reid, and the other preept reetors on the senator side with the house gop x)kyleadership, t reason why there wasn t a freak-out over the dodd-frank language because this thing passed in the house in october of 2013 with 70 democrats supporting it, including steny hoyer, the difference in campaign finances that was negotiated between reed, mcconnell, and boehner. what you re seeing tonight is the liberal wing standing up to something that was directly negotiated by reid and the white house, and was supported by them before. they re not taking it n)f . also, could there be another factor here? you ve lost both houses of congress now. you re the opposition on the hill. you re not worried about carrying the water on debt ceilings and all the rest and budget deals. you lost the house a while ago. you re losing the senate. is this a revolutionary spirit fueled by the fact, you don t have to run the show, you just have to drive your ideas? i think what s really clear, chris, is the fact is, the american people are expecting us to fight for them. they re depending on us to fight for them. we re prepared to do it. you know, if you look at that deal that was negotiated, i don t know that the white house frankly was clearly in the room on this. and clearly some deals were cut with mitch mcconnell because he s always wanted to raise those political campaign contribution limits. he wants to throw the individual limits out the window. but we can t let them. we can t let wall street walk away with the store, and on the other hand, give them the open keys to the government by allowing all these political contributions. and like i said, if the republicans really want a bipartisan bill over here in the house, they know they can get democratic votes, but they have to get it with a clean funding bill. thanks so much donna edwards and luke russert. coming up, guess who is defiant inzkw;o the face of the torture report? dick cheney. the man who once said we d have to work through the dark side. he s unapologetic about what the cia did. he said he d do it all over again in a minute. big surprise. that s ahead, this is hardball, the place for politics. you don t need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we re exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg. isn t as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. chris christie, like many of the potential 2016 presidential candidates isn t talking about the torture report one bit. he refused to answer questions about it. now a new poll finds the people in his home state say they don t think he d make a good president. 53%, a majority of new jersey voters say government christie would not do well in the white house. of course it s a blue state. and even though christie is the strongest republican against hillary in the garden state, new hillary in the garden state, new jersey is still deep blue. a remote that lives on your phone. i think that what needed to be done was done. i think we were perfectly justified in doing it, and i d do it again in a minute. welcome back to hardball. former vice president dick cheney, he mingsed no words in his interview with fox news. describing his preferred approach to terror. here he is. he is in our possession. we know he s the architect. what are we supposed to do? kiss him on both cheeks and say, please, please, tell us what you know. no, of course not. we did what needed to be done to catch those who were guilty on 9/11 and prevent a further attack. we were successful on both parts this report said it was not successful. this report is full of crap. director of harvard s project on public narrative and author of the 1% doctrine. and also former rnc chair michael steele. what do you think is in the makeup of a guy who dismisses all different opinions as crap? cheney will go to his grave denying everything that is very clear at this point. this is the moment they feared, that there would be an official inquest that would prove right everything people were saying. now it s happened and cheney is digging into his final position. he s in a shrinking country, cheneyland, that gets smaller and smaller. and even now you can hear him shooting at president bush as to who knew what. this is cheney s last stand. let me ask you about policy. i m a big believer, as mike dukakis said, the fish rots from the head. an old greek expression. whatever it is, i believe the boss sets the tone. i worked in politics for 15 years. when staffers did something, i knew the boss wanted it done, or they wouldn t be there. that s the operative. and i was one, an operative. you are the boss s guy. so when somebody says somebody at the cia did something, my view is, they were told to do it. what s your view? where did the water boording come from and all that stuff, how did it work its way down to the bowels or the dark place this came directly, chris, from bush and cheney, both of them. at the start, it was ordered by the president and the vice president. the cia didn t just wake up one day and say, hey, we re going to do a lot of extra legal and extraordinary things. it came from the white house. they were ordered to take off the gloves as the white house said right at the beginning. don t worry about what people say when they find out. go to the dark side. they were following orders. now, ultimately, the president and the vice president were briefed intensively about exactly what cia was doing from the beginning and throughout. bush was quite engaged in this as was cheney. they got regular reports, what is the yield of the interrogation, is it successful, is it not? both men are directly driving this. to the extent their cruelty involved, michael, essentially, torture, whatever you want to call it, there s torture, cruelty involved, you re hurting people, causing them pain and fear and all the mix of horrors you get in your mind when you re being tortured, where is it going to end, is it going to end with me ending, all that, did they do that with an attitude of we want to do this, we don t like these people, they are bad people, was it personal? ron? that s to you, ron. you bleeped out. the fact is, they engaged president bush only when things were made personal. cheney and bush viewed this as an affront to them personally, which was kind of the way bush was managed, the tapping of blood lust. this was about managing bush. by cheney, by others. but also doing what they felt need be done. don t worry about the consequences. of course cheney creates the 1% doctrine, that idea that we should do everything. everything essentially we can think of. don t worry about these issues of ends and means. now what we find is of course the worst nightmare, that not only was this morally reprehensible, cashiering america s moral authority, but it was of no value at all, which they were warned about at the beginning. you re sure of that? absolutely. we got nothing out of it? absolutely nothing of value that couldn t be got in a hundred other ways. but they didn t get it in a hundred other ways. let me have michael in here. i want to set this up politically. cheney isn t hiding. no, he s not hiding. cheney has never hidden. i think that s what frustrates a lot of people. he puts it out there and you have to deal with it. he makes it easy for you to unpack it, as he s done again. there s a lot that ron said that, i wasn t in the room, i don t know what s inside these men s hearts and heads. i do know how the process i do not think that the president and the vice president were sitting around over a cup of coffee saying, we re just going to start waterboarding, out of thin air. we know what the cia s business has always been about. this is nothing new. this is nothing transcendent in terms what the cia has done in terms of black ops. what about going into the dark areas of intelligence, we got to go back in there in the quiet, where there s no discussion absolutely. why is cheney saying to do that? why are we laying it out on the table? i want to make the point that came from the top. cheney exhibiting no moral qualms about the acts revealed in the report. let s listen. did the ends justify the means? absolutely. no doubt in your mind? no doubt in my mind, i m totally comfortable with it. doing his job there. cheney previewed the at any cost mentality. yet days after 9/11, let s listen. we also have to work the dark side, if you will, we have to spend time in the shadows, in the intelligence world. a lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion, using sources and methods that are available to our intelligence agencies, if we re going to be successful. that s the world these folks operate in. and so it s going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal basically to achieve our object. how do you read that? that s the way this works. don t blame it on the cia. it guy looks like he was ready to do it from the top. exactly. that s where the buck ultimately stops. you laid it out very well at the opening of the segment. that at the end of the day, it s going to start at the head. if there are good things that come from it, you re going to the head. that s how cheney saw this. this is all in the context of what happened post 9/11. this is that world that was created. again, we have a history. whether we re trying to go after castro in the kennedy administration they didn t do the job, did they? no, they didn t. or whether you re going after osama bin laden, it s the same type who is still the head of cuba right now? anyway, let s go back to ryan. what is it in cheney s being? what s in his head that makes him curl the lip and talk about torture and stuff like that with such delight and relish? what s that all about? cheney has always believed that tactics matter. he s arguably one of the finest tact itions at the top of government for many years. if cheney believes that his position cannot be challenged, as long as he digs in and doesn t flinch, he ll do that. that s where cheney is sitting at this point. many people are turning on him at this point. john mccain and others are saying, cheney s wrong. but cheney at this point will be the last man standing with this position if that s what it takes. that s what he s thinking about. history s record, i didn t flinch. and i think ron is absolutely right about that. that s the one thing about the man, he s consistent from the very beginning to this moment. and now one has to unpack that. i don t know about love, but in his view, all s fair in war. ron, thank you for being the expert. michael steele, thank you very much. up next, a hardball farewell to michele bachmann. we re going to the riddic lift, this is hardball, the place for politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. place for politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. hardball, the place fo politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. place for politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. hardball, the place fo politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. this is hardball, the for politics. and also, where you can hear the debate. you don t need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we re exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg. isn t as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. come from all walks of life. if you have high blood sugar, ask your doctor about farxiga. it s a different kind of medicine that works by removing some sugar from your body. along with diet and exercise, farxiga helps lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. with one pill a day, farxiga helps lower your a1c. and, although it s not a weight-loss or blood-pressure drug, farxiga may help you lose weight and may even lower blood pressure when used with certain diabetes medicines. do not take if allergic to farxiga or its ingredients. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction include rash, swelling or difficulty breathing or swallowing. if you have any of these symptoms, stop taking farxiga and seek medical help right away. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, are on dialysis, or have bladder cancer. tell your doctor right away if you have blood or red color in your urine or pain while you urinate. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including dehydration, genital yeast infections in women and men, low blood sugar,kidney problems, and increased bad cholesterol. common side effects include urinary tract infections, changes in urination, and runny nose. do the walk of life yeah, you do the walk of life need to lower your blood sugar? ask your doctor about farxiga and visit our website to learn how you may be able to get every month free. mccarthyism to rule out anti-american lawmakers in the democratic caucus. how many people in the caucus are anti-american? you already suspect barack obama. is he alone, or are there others? what i would say is that the news media should do a penetrating expose and take a look. i wish they would. i wish the american media would take a great look at the views of the people in congress and find out, are they pro-america, or anti-america. i think people would love to see an expose like that. backman was a vocal opponent of the president, attacking the affordable care act with a fervor. this egregious system that will be ultimately known as death care, must be defeated. it will be very unpleasant if the death panels go into effect. let s repeal this failure before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. of course there were no death panels, but congresswoman bachmann rare let the facts get in the way of good fiction. he famously campaigned against vaccinations, making the unfounded claim that the hpv vaccination was unsafe for young women. i will tell you that i had a mother last night come up to me, here in tampa florida, after the debate. she told me that her daughter took that vaccine, that injection, and suffered from mental retardation thereafter. it can have very dangerous side effects. it was rated false after it was denied by the medical community at large. congresswoman bachmann liked to cite the founding fathers, but basic american history alluded her at times. when she claims that our founders were the ones who ended slavery. the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the united states. remember how ben franklin won the civil war? anyway, at a campaign event, she mistakenly credited new hampshire as the site of the first battle of the american revolution. the love of new hampshire and what we have in common is your extreme love for liberty. you re the place where the shot around the world. the battle of lexington and concord as everyone watching knows, was in massachusetts. with that, we say farewell to the queen of the right wing clown car. up next, the director of the cia agency defends the agency in the wake of the report. the roundtable joins us in a minute. you re watching hardball, the place for politics. great job. (mandarin) cut it out. see you tomorrow. you don t need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we re exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg. isn t as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. welcome back to hardball. two days after the release of that damning report by democratic senators and the senate intelligence committee, the director of the cia spoke to reporters today. he was asked whether the program put in place by the bush administration, did it work? which included torture, did it produce useful intelligence. here s what brennan said. there s no way, to know whether or not some information that was obtained from an individual who had been subjected at some point during his confinement, could have been obtained through other means. it s just an unknowable fact. so what the agency s point has been consistently and what certainly my view is, after having reviewed the documents, is that there was useful intelligence, very useful, valuable intelligence was obtained from individuals who had been subjected to eits. whether that could be obtained without the use of the eits, is unknowable. michael steele, melinda henden berger and republican strategist hogan gitly. one question, is torture, any kind of torture right or wrong? should we do it? in my opinion? that s what i m asking for, should we do it? is torture really the act, or is it the motivation? we re trying to save the country from disaster and one guy that we know knows the answer to what s coming next, do we torture him? to get you the information you want do you think we should do it? i think you should do it. i m with my catholic church on this. they say it s an intrinsically evil act. so i say no, the ends never justify the means. it s always wrong. and i don t care if it gets you absolutely everything you want, the keys to the kingdom, which it does not. [ all speak at once ] our president says the same thing, this is not who we are as a country and i agree with that. so you wouldn t do it? 24 hours, explosion coming, you re not going to do it. your thoughts? are you with her? i ve got my intrinsically catholic view as well, but i side with hogan. i think the policy and personal implications beyond that one individual are too great. i think if you re in executive leadership in particular, you have to weigh it in totality. and yes, sometimes that requires you to do it. this is the justification in the church for things like just war. so you cannot say that, oh, if i torture that that s morally wrong, but if, you know, i bomb an entire village of innocent individuals that somehow that justifies the means that you re trying to achieve with the war. so what that requires is the moral leadership lays out the parameters and the political leadership has to wade itself through that, keeping its eye on those things that cross the lines, and you saw with the cia director, he was not he was not getting into the policy. that s not his job. his job is to do the implementation of that policy and those leaders that we entrust with the he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. have anything to do with what is done when the time comes? because when the time comines, president, a dick cheney, a barack obama, a george bush, whoever they are, has to make a decision how to save the country. they have to make a decision on the spot. we got this guy in custody. we know he knows. what do we do? mr. president, he s our only source of information right now. and you have to decide then whether to throw the rule book out. but how can it be a message to the world that we re no better than the terrorists we are fighting? and we are not isis. we don t do that. that s not who we are. [ all speak at once ] i don t think it s practical. are you against capital punishment? i am. see, these are values. i can appreciate that. i think capital punishment didn t work to deter crime in the same way torture doesn t work to i think there s a false argument here. i think it s too neat. it s convenient to believe it s actually not neat. it s so satisfying on an emotional level to say, let s do what it takes. but where s the proof that we got anything out of it? but see, you re trying to prove something that is not going to be fully disclosed in the course of any period of time. you re not able to say, we were able to do x, y, and z because we tortured this individual. it s just a false argument. he said it worked. but he leaves the caveat, we could have got it from somewhere else. but that was the view today. republicans wanted to hear brennan say, we got the information that got bin laden. they did, right? the democrats wanted to hear, we weren t sure if that really came from here, we just got the information. they heard that too. he said both things. so both sides are able to glom on to the points they want to use and use that politically, however they choose. it s not knowable to know if we could have gotten the same information, means it wasn t even a last resort. i mean, that to me, suggests that they didn t even try very hard otherwise to get that information. bases loaded, bottom of the ninth, guy hits a home run. you could say, somebody else could have done that. it s true. the pitcher could have hit a home run. the shortstop, the least likely. but you don t know. anyway, yesterday colorado senator mark udall gave a fiery speech on the floor of the senate, calling for president obama to purge from his administration people who were part of the cia s interrogation program, people like the director himself, john brennan. this is tough stuff for a guy on his way out. but here he is. torture just didn t happen afterall, contrary to the president s recent statement, we didn t torture some folks. real actual people engaged in torture. some of these people are still employed by the cia and the u.s. government. they are right now people serving in high level positions at the agency who approved directed or committed acts related to the cia s detention and interrogation program. it s bad enough not to prosecute these officials. but to reward or promote them, and risk the integrity of the u.s. government, to protect them, is incomprehensible. the best thing about our country, we talk about this in the open. i always talk about, when we were growing up, we had the space program. we said there s a guy on the board. before the ship took off, the russians, you never knew if the ship came down, blew up in the air, poor monkey, or not even that. we were honest and we think of ourselves as the good guys. we think of ourselves, but it s ten years later we re talking about this. we re talking about it and a lot of other countries never do. so what could will come of this hand-wrippinging, which i think is morally important? will it shorten the leash on future cias or not? i do know, when you re talking about this program, that the senate democrats, senate republicans knew about this. this wasn t new to them. they understood this. for them now to be outraged is a little disingenuous. now that we know about it, the program s over. it s been ended. what are the 2016 candidates going to say about it? because now it s in the forefront again? what torture will do is stop people from coming on the show and looking at the camera instead of looking at me. did you learn that at the virginia leadership school? i was in news before. okay, go ahead. well, the republicans are mostly, as i understand it, expressing outrage that it s out in the open now, even though the terrorists have been recruiting on this stuff for years. so i don t think cheney s making the case for it. how will this find its way into party platforms? will the democrats say we re against it? will republicans say, we re for torture? they re not going to say they re pro-torture. do you think cheney will actually say no, no. he is something. isn t he something? i think if anybody thumps their nose at this guy, i ve been through this, you take on cheney, and he wants to dismember you. anyway, the roundtable is staying with us. when we come back, the war on insurgen insurgency. this is hot for the democrats elizabeth warren leading the charge for the future of the democrat party. she wants them to be a populist party that keeps a tough rein on wall street. this is hardball, the place for politics. [ sirens wailing ] inside of you. even if you re treating your crohn s disease or ulcerative colitis, an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then speak with your gastroenterologist. then boom. what happened? stress, fun, bad habits kids, now what? let s build a new, smarter bed using the dualair chambers to sense your movement, heartbeat, breathing. introducing the sleep number bed with sleepiq™ technology. it tracks your sleep and tells you how to adjust for a good, better and an awesome night. the difference? try adjusting up or down. you ll know cuz sleep iq™ tells you. give the gift of amazing sleep, only at a sleep number store. find our best buy rated c2 queen mattress with sleepiq. know better sleep with sleep number. rick perry, the governor of texas is talking about another presidential run. he s looking to put the mistakes of the past campaign behind him. here s what he told kasie hunt about what matters in a presidential candidate. running for the presidency is not an iq test. it is a test of an individual s resolve. it s a test of an individual s philosophy. it s a test of an individual s life experiences. and i think americans are really ready for a leader that will give them a great hope about the future. said he probably has less margin for error after his oops moment in the debate in 2011 when he couldn t remember one of the three federal agencies he wanted to close down if he got elected. we ll be right back. we re back. the democratings between the white house and senator elizabeth warren. back with the round table right now, michael, melinda and hogan. i think this is one of those big nights in politics. i think the fact that senator warren, in a manner somewhat leek ted cruz saying cause of trouble. doe dee don t go along anymore. well, nobody wants to see a government shutdown. but, i don t think ted c rrruz wasn t afraid of one. but nobody wants to see a check on wall street and roll backs, either. it isn t just liberals on the hill. i don t think you see people say boy, i wish we d get off the backs of wall street and carried interest. i think that s where the public is. there s a lot of that kind of populous feeling among ordinary republicans, monot the ones on e hill. well, one of the charges on the right, if the dem kraic party doesn t get populous, they re going to get snaked by the republicans. they ll come from the libertarian right saying you guys will be in bed too long. i think that s accurate. what s interesting to me is if you get this bill to the house rngs you re going to have some weird relationship between elizabeth warren and ted cruz. they re going to be against the bill. it could both sink in the senate for just about every issue. but they re against the same bill. i don t know that it gets out of the senate. we could be here through christmas. we could be here through christmas. i still cannot find this more odd than to hear, you know, elizabeth warren coming off as the joan of arc of the left to go and fight wall street. and let me finish my thought. and poor ted cruz who was making the same principle charge as somehow methuzala. he was called the political terrorist. political terrorist. let s discriminate here between somebody whoa s trying to make sure wall street doesn t get another biet ote out of the apple that shouldn t have. but she needs to go reconcile that attitude and that approach with the rest of her party who s taken checks from wall street for e for the last seven years. so don t give me this holier than thou in wall e wall street. you have just said something here. the democrats money comes from new york and it comes from where ever people from new york go during the rest of the year and san francisco and l.a. it s a coastal party. now, they re attacking big money. this is fascinating. both parties on the hill are in the pocket of wall streetment and i think that anyone who took them on could get a lot of support among average mrp e mother-in-laws. that s why people don t that s why congress is held in such low remarks. skbh thank you. i think it s good for the country. we could stay on a few more days. thaipg. thank you very much. and thank you, michael stooel and hogan. when we return, let me finish with the revolution in a democratic party we re witnessing tonight. you re watching hard e hardball, the place for politics. no. it s called grid iq. the 4:51 is leaving at 4:51. they cut the power. it ll fix itself. power s back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. thrillingly predictable. twhat do i do?. you need to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock. there should be a truck leaving now. i got it. now jump off the bridge. what? in 3.2.1. are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable. composition of the senate from 55-45 democratic to 55-45 republican. it enlarged the republican lead to the point that it would be very hard for the democrats to win back control in 2016 even with a strong standard running for president. the other thing to say is that say e they seem stuck in place. they look to be simply holding on, sticking to the usual positions and phrases hoping for salvation by adherence to their most basic con stitch whenty e sills. both of these factors, the fact of defeet and studded thinking meets makes tonts s wide open assault on this big spending bill and its little give away to wall street all the more important. remember this date, december 11 thd, 2014, it may be the birthday for a democratic party that s ri gained its reason to be.
this is not an ordinary time and this is not an ordinary election. we are going to be choosing a president who will set policy for not just four or eight years, but some of the important decisions we have to make at home and around the world to energy and so much else. so there is a lot at stake. it s one of the most consequential elections we had. that s why i tried to put forth specific policies and plans. try to get it off of the personal and put it on to what it is on i want to do as president. that s why i hope people will check on that for themselves. so they can see that yes, i spent 30 years, actually a little more, working to help kids and families and i want to take that experience to the white house and do that every single day. mr. trump? well, i consider her statement about my children to be a very nice compliment. i don t know if it was meant to be a compliment, but i m proud of my children. they have done a wonderful job and they have been wonderful kids. i consider that a compliment. i will say that about hillary. because of that tape. he spoke for 40 minutes and 10 seconds and hillary clinton spoke for 39 minutes and five seconds. almost exactly the same amount of time. you didn t hear a robust emotional apology. from donald trump, did you? the inbox from republicans, that s one of the things they are worried about. that s powerful for hillary clinton to use him saying such vulgar things about women and he didn t say anything aggressively to apologize. he didn t do that behavior and he was pressed by anderson cooper and he said and talks in the tape about assaulting women. he said he didn t do those and he apologized. nowhere near as aggressive as many republicans wanted. he went into the personal attacks of bringing bill clinton into it. i think it will be based on where do you stand from a partisan perspective. what donald trump is doing is getting more engaged and counter punching. throwing mike pence under the bus at a time when mike pence is standing by him is an interesting dynamic and he did say that yes, he took that giant deduction so he wouldn t pay federal income taxes. you can bet that s coming to a tv ad without a doubt. that is true. back to you. let s check in with the panel of experts. i said it was a wash, but feel free to disagree. at the beginning donald trump did the opposite of what i thought he should have done. he said he was embarrassed by this. the videotape. he said it was locker room talk. he did not apologize to the women involved and he kept saying it s words and it wasn t anything more than that. period. end of sentence. so there was nothing more than anything he already said. he had already had the press conference about bill clinton. we knew that story and when asked are you different than at the young age of 59, he said i m not proud of it and i have great respect for people, my family. hillary got him on that because she said you needed to apologize. for the rest of the debate. i think donald trump when he got over that was more disciplined, attacking hillary on the e-mail issue where she is vulnerable. i think in a sense he may have done enough. she seemed a little stilted at times and i think he may have done enough to stop the bleeding and i m not sure minds were changed. so much has occurred over the last 48 hours and the last week that people have to digest all of this including the debate tonight to see where they stand. i want to echo one thing that dana said was the mike pence remark. he is praising a dictator who was trying to interfere with our election, period. whom his running mate said we should stand up to and putin is propping up. that struck a note. here disagrees with him. i m sure you watched the debate as we all did. we commented on the issues. we are not the same policy. give it a broader look. much better counter puncher. i think he did poorly on that he was much more animated and much better counterpuncher i think that he did poorly on that question and he did poorly on the strange syria discussion where he got off on a rant there. which i think will leave a lot of questions and led to the mike pence question. the truth is hillary clinton has her struggles with the same issues she always struggles with, e-mails, speeches. i thought his counterpunch on the lincoln comment was good. at the end of the day, i come to the same conclusion. i think she probably wins at some point and i don t think it changes much. just to set the stage, this has been one of the most disastrous periods for a presidential nominee in the history of the united states. from the first debate and before this debate. did he change that at all? i think he stopped the panic among most of the republicans there who were panicking. at least for now. i thought it was basically a draw which is basically a good thing for donald trump thinking that hillary clinton was going knock him out of this debate and have such a strong performance that there would be no question of where this race stood. i don t think she had that great of a performance. he was odd pacing around and standing over here in some of those shots. i think there ll be a lot of material stylistically, for snl, she counterpunched well on the you ve been there for 30 years what have you been doing and listed all of the things she had done. children s health care, expa expanding health care. veterans and secretary of state and 400 pieces of legislation. that was a good moment for her. she dropped one of the hillary clinton new information things and the alicia machado things. with she talked about trump gobbling up illegal steel from china. to build his buildings. i bet we ll hear more about that. i believe thaefs a news week story about how two out of three buildings that are using the steel that hurts american workers. what d you think? i think the night belonged to donald trump. we re not talking about the trump tape. he was able to pivot away and barely controlled at some point. it was a greatest hits real for the 14 million who voted for him. no hand shake at the out set. bill s infidelities and the e-mail erasure and islam and dishonesty and the media, you will hear a lot about how they reported the role of the moderators in this. i think those who voted for him got everything they wanted in their vote. did he grow? i can t see if there was any outreach. i looked carefully where i thought he could have expanded the base that he already has. not a knockout, but his night on points. where could he have expanded the base? obviously there was a muslim american woman who spoke. there was an african american who wanted the country african american gentleman, james carter who wanted the country to be united would he be devoted to bring us together? where were the opportunities that he didn t take? he could have been more expansive on health care reform and rather than repeal and replace it with what and how and whom it would benefit. he could talk more about the reform he wants in the tax code aside from getting rid of interests for wealthy people. where he always falls down is that he goes on the attack without when a direct question is asked. what would you do about x, y or z, he deflects and goes on the attack that hillary has been here for 30 years and didn t do anything. the way you bring people into the tent is to tell them exactly what you would do for them. like taxes and health care, i still do not think that we got much beyond obamacare is a disaster and why didn t she fix the tax code? and by the way, i think we might have heard him admit, i m not sure about this, that he did use on the $918 million debt, that he actually used that not to pay taxes. he did say. he didn t say how long but he did say he use it. i think the trump teams thinks they are reaching out to suburban, white women and college-educated women when they talk about african-americans and hispanics, he hurts his case because of his record and the way he talks about african-americans and the way that he tends to say the african-americans and not just african-americans, which is a way of referring to folks in deeply odd. i think they are doing that but i don t think there s any success in growing that tent. the real question is, they fear he doesn t have the right temperament or command, were they assured tonight or think of him differently as a result of this performance? i agree with michael, he was speaking to the base and i think the base is probably very happy. the base is just not big enough to win the election. the demographics of the country are such i m sorry to hit this point again, george herbert walker bush and mitt romney got the same percentage of the white vote. 59%, what earned bush 136 electoral votes got mitt romney only 56. and there is the changing demographic of the country and that s why the missed opportunity was with the muslim woman and the african american man at the end. that was magnanimous. where he s doing poorly, he needs to improve significantly, has to do with college educated white voters. he s even with college educated white men. health care and their families. there was a poll out today in your home state and your home state that had him leading among college educated voters, white voters by 20 points. this is a cohert that romney carried by 14% in 2012. that s a stunning tolerance, right? they think he s a bigot. right. that s why you hear hillary clinton, all of her ads, are about donald trump and what he said and those words, whether it s about women, whether it s about the birther controversy, those things turn off college-educated white voters. he can t undo that because he spent so much time branding himself in that way as this kind of unreconstructed alpha male and the tape only underscores that. let me say one thing about the tape. we re all talking about the debate and that s going to be our focus until 1:00 in the morning. tomorrow morning we wake up in a world where the debate is over. we re not talking about it. we re talking about something else. i can t help but think the clinton campaign is going to make sure that that tape is everywhere from now until the election. it s about the image of the women from this point forward. four women and donald trump and that story s going to get told. college educated white women that we ve been talking about. can i just make one other point in which is it s very clear they don t like each other very much. it was kind of an irritating debate in that sense because they were firing these jibes back and forth. and what was missing from it was any invocation of people, humanity. we re in a town hall meeting. the only person that was raised i think hillary clinton raised an individual and just as in the last debate she raised an individual to weap weaponize that story against donald trump but the day-to-day struggle. health care, nobody mentioned anybody who was actually struggling with health care. i was surprised by that. let s go back to the tape. i want to play donald trump s response when the subject of this access hollywood tape, him talking very crudely about women, seeming to boast about grabbing women, assaulting women inappropriately. here was his response. you called what you said locker room banter. you described kissing women without their consent, grabbing their genitals. that is sexual assault. you bragged you sexually assaulted women. do you understand that? no, i didn t say that at all. i don t think you understood what was said. this was locker room talk. i m not proud of it. i apologized to my family. i apologize to the american people. certainly i m not proud of it. but this is locker room talk. you know, when we have a world where you have isis chopping off heads, where you have and frankly drowning people in steel cages, where you have wars and horrible, horrible sights all over, where you have so many bad things happening, this is like medieval times. we haven t seen anything like this, the carnage all over the world, and they look and they see. can you imagine the people that are frankly doing so well against us with isis and they look at our country and they see what s going on. yes, i m very embarrassed by it. i hate it. but it s locker room talk and it s one of those things. i will knock the hell out of isis. we re going to defeat isis. isis happened a number of years ago in a vacuum that was left so because of bad judgment. and i will tell you, i will take care of isis. so the basic response there, van, it was locker room talk but nothing compared to the horrors of isis and i m going to stop isis. i just thought that was just horrible. he rather than apologizing he minimized. and that was something that everybody here agreed he should avoid doing. and basically, if the only thing you have to say about yourself is i m not as bad as isis, i mean, that s your defense, there s something wrong with that kind of response. [ cheers and applause ] the other thing is that you cannot underestimate the history that was made in our country. a line was crossed that i don t know has been crossed in my lifetime, maybe ever. he threatened to jail his opponent. right. he threatened to jail hillary clinton if he became president of the united states. that is something i think is a new low in american democracy. but i will say something maybe provocative. i think hillary won because donald trump kind of won. in other words, the worst possible outcome for hillary clinton could have been if she knocked him out. if she had knocked him out and forced him out of the race, you could have been in a situation where the republican party could rally, get somebody else in there. it was actually a good outcome for her. she did well enough. he did well enough. he stabilized himself. and he s going to bleed out. and she s going to be able to get across the finish line. i m not sure we watched the same debate because read the transcript. donald trump issued three more apologies. he s now up to issuing five. that s enough for most of the american people. i m still waiting on the media to call on the apology for hillary clinton lying to the families of benghazi members when she told them their families were dead because of a video. i m still waiting for a call for that apology. but i think something very big happened tonight that is lost upon most of us. what we saw tonight was someone speak for the people against the washington elite. there are people in this country, 2/3 of the country thinks we re in the wrong direction. they re tired of being promised hope and change, which is what president obama promised millennialed, promised the american people and it did not materialize. and you saw donald trump flawlessly expose the double standards of justice when he said when he said if someone, an american citizen had done 1/5 of what you had done with your e-mails their lives would have been destroyed. and there was an audible boo from the audience because people know hillary clinton lied when she retorted with the fact that i didn t do anything wrong with my e-mails. the audience booed because there are two standards. the washington elite get one and we the american people get another. i think that was explosive. i think the audience had trump supporters and clinton supporters and we heard both sides. but let me go into let me play some of what you re talking about and specifically, van jones, it s the moment you that referred to where he said that were he in charge of the laws she would be in jail. i didn t think i d say this but i m going to say it. and i hate to say it. but if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. there has never been anything like it. and we re going to have a special prosecutor. when i speak, i go out and speak, the people of this country are furious. in my opinion, the people that have been long-term workers at the fbi are furious. there has never been anything like this where e-mails and you get a subpoena. you get a subpoena and after getting the subpoena you delete 33,000 e-mails. and then you acid wash them. or bleach them as you say. a very expensive process. so we re going to get a special prosecutor and we re going to look into it. because you know what? people have been their lives have been destroyed for doing 1/5 of what you ve done. and it s a disgrace. and honestly, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. secretary clinton everything he just said is absolutely false but i m not surpris surprised. i told people that it would be impossible to be fact-checking donald all the time. i d never get to talk about anything i want to do and how we re going to really make lives better for people. so once again, go to hillaryclinton.com. we have literally trump. you can fact-check him in real-time. it s just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. because you d be in jail. secretary clinton [ cheers ] so jeffrey, i heard you laughing. obviously that is a crowd pleaser for trump supporters. there s no question about that. he already has trump supporters. they already support him. is that the kind of line that exemplifies the kind of temperament that those who are undecided want to hear from him? yes. and i ll tell you why. this is about as kayleigh was saying, this is about the american people versus the political class in this country. media elites, politicians, et cetera, who as he said repeatedly there, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk and they never get anything done and they lie and they dissemble. and she would in fact, if she were not hillary clinton, she would be in huge trouble with these e-mails. and she would conceivably be going to jail. i mean, other people have gone to jail for these kind of problems. so what he s doing there is hitting the broad themes, one, the division between the american people and the political class. two, her character. if you remember that famous quinnipiac poll from last year where they asked people to free-associate one-word descriptions of the candidates and for her it was dishonest and liar. you know that s kind of a bogus poll where they i mean, i think the biggest ones for trump were unflattering as well. but i take your point on the fact that she has very, very low trustworthy and honesty numbers so he was hitting this. okay, paul. the strategic context in which this debate occurs is the trump campaign in meltdown. a meltdown especially with women because of this really horrific tape where he brags about committing sexual assault. i don t think he put it to bed. you keep hearing stories that there s more tapes to come. the guy did 10 or 14 years on television and people keep saying we re going to go through these tapes. maybe they will. maybe they won t. but he certainly did nothing to put it behind him or even to inoculate against the stories to come. now, tonight s audience, i bet you a nickel, would be much more female than male. first off more voters are female than male. but tonight we re up against qupt sunday night football. packers by the way 17-9 over the giants leading right now fourth quarter. the performance he put on, first being so bizarre about this sexual assault. in one of the answers he mentioned isis, immigration, and the economy. in one of the follow-ups he rambled on about michelle obama, sidney blumenthal, debbie wasserman schultz, bernie sanders, e-mails. that doesn t assuage any women voters. and then the style throughout the debate i kept hearing from a lot of women, they didn t like that the pacing, the stalking. yeah. the really kind of creepy behavior when he wasn t speaking. toward hillary. last time it was he got in trouble for interrupting. he did a fair amount of that again. he seemed to actually pick a lot of unwise fights with martha raddatz also. less so with anderson. this is not if i m as a super pac guy, i work for the super pac that s opposing trump and is supporting hillary. i m happy about this. if i were a trump strategist i d say boss, we ve got a problem with women and you just made it worse. we re going to keep it there. everyone stay. we ve still got two hours. wolf, let me throw it back to you. anderson anderson. jake, thanks very much. we ve got an excellent moment right now to discuss something i d never heard in any of these debates before between two presidential candidates. and dana, let s talk a little about this. one candidate says not only is he going to put forward a special prosecutor to investigate his rival but, and this is very significant, he s going to put her in jail if he s elected president of the united states. that s pretty extraordinary. okay. not to sound too corny, but what makes this country different from countries with dictators in africa or stalin or hitler or any of those countries with dictators and totalitarian leaders is that when they took over they put their opponents in jail. to hear one presidential candidate say, even if it was a flip comment, which it was, you re going to be in jail to another presidential candidate on the debate stage in the united states of america, stunning. just stunning. certainly is. john king. most of his strategy on these issues was clearly designed, a, listening to his alt-right advisers. this was a breitbart strategy from the predebate and the debate. if he s bleeding across the electorate, if his goal priority one is to stop the bleeding on the right, then it may have succeeded in that. if you look at state by state, if you look at the battleground states, if you look at the demographic breakdowns in the states he is losing now heading into the last 30 days. remember, the timing of this is critical. in the last 30 days there are some people already voting. more people will start voting this week. even more will start voting after that. many in the most important battleground states. 30% of the american people last tight voted early. that will probably be a little higher this time. so the election is not on november 8th. it is now for many people in the states that matter. and if donald trump needed to shore up his conservative base, his team is very happy. he was much modern gauged than he was tonight. he was much more aggressive. he did more counterpunching. he got to some of the issues that he believes are her weaknesses but to dana s point there is that going to win you the vote of a moderate woman in the philadelphia sbushds? i think not. is it going to get you raves on zruj and breitbart and the conservative media and the other network, we all know who i m talking about, most likely. but at least he ll stop the bleeding among his own base. yes. i think that is a fair assessment that you can see in the mood and even the republicans who don t like trump. they think this is the worst possible outcome because they thought if he tanked tonight there would be pressure to get him out of the race. exactly. and now they re saying he did well enough to stay in. they don t think he can win and they think he hurts other senate and house candidates. but they think he did well enough to sustain himself without a doubt and i know that s what they think inside team trump. without a doubt they think they had a strong night. we re just hearing that eric holder apparently just said that trump s threat was like nixonian. not so much the jail threat but the threat that if he becomes president he s going to instruct his attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor. it s first of all, i believe it s kind of a misunderstanding of what is even allowed and the way that the process works. but even so, putting that aside, just the threat is something that is going to this is something that s going to have ripple effects in the days to come. i also think another giant question tonight, again, people view these things through their partisan prism but we know that hillary clinton has barack obama, michelle obama, bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, joe biden, bill clinton. donald trump has mike pence. there are no other senior republicans out there. and he threw mike pence under the bus tonight. he threw his running mate under the bus tonight, who has stood by him mike pence did not defend donald trump on the specifics in the vice presidential debate. i was told that got under donald trump s skin a little bit. mike pence did stand by him this weekend. mike pence, a christian conservative whose wife i m told was horrified when she heard that tape and who talked to her husband about it, mike pence did stand by donald trump even though he did say the language is offensive. dysfunction in the campaign in the last 30 days is dangerous. he just did put out a tweet mike, pence that s what i was looking for. going ahead and endorsing congrats to my running mate @realdonaldtrump on a big debate win. proud to stand with you as we make #make america great again. brianna keilar you ve got a special guest in the spin room. i have hillary clinton s campaign chair john podesta. and i want to get your reaction to something first. donald trump called hillary clinton the devil but he also made a threat that if he were in charge of the laws of the country that he would jail her, he would imprison her. what is the campaign s reaction? well, it s one more over-the-top statement by donald trump. and fortunately, he s not in charge of the laws of the united states and never will be. but i think that maybe he was trying to appeal to his base. what we ve seen over the last few weeks and particularly over the last few days are republicans peeling off him in droves. so maybe all he s got left is his base. so to call her the devil is i think beneath a presidential candidate. it s one more reason yes he doesn t have the temperament to do the job of being president or being the commander in chief. the optics from the beginning of the debate were that we sea chelsea clinton not there to shake the hands of melania trump and her kids as we saw during the first debate. and then hillary clinton did not shake hands with donald trump at the beginning of the debate. that s a very clear signal she was trying to send. well, look, i think he came in here sort of pulling this stunt that he did at the beginning of this and was on the attack from the beginning. again, i think maybe he was just trying to stabilize his own base of voters even as that s shrinking. but i think that given what we saw, what we saw on the videotape, what we re seeing now in the howard stern tapes, his she s trying to signal something. she s trying to signal that she that his behavior is doesn t really deserve the respect of a handshake at the beginning. she did shake his hand at the end. but i think that, you know, he came in tonight and even walked back whatever bit of an apology he gave for the access hollywood tape that every american now has probably seen over and over again. i know that one of the strategies coming into this was thinking that after that tape came out there were people who were newly open to hillary clinton. but the assessment seems to be that she really just rallied the base and whether or not she has really expanded it seems that she and donald trump just rallied their base. what do you say to that? i think she came in trying to answer the specific questions. this was supposed to be i think in my mind a town hall where voters got to ask specific questions. the moderators asked a lot of the questions tonight. but the voters did get to ask questions. and i think she wanted to talk about the specific ideas, the specific plans, what she s been able to do in a bipartisan way when she was first lady, when she was senator, the children s health insurance program, the other program she talked about. but most importantly what she wanted to do to build an economy that was going to work for everyone, not just those at the top. so if n. doing that i think what she wanted to try to accomplish was to say i want to be a president for everyone and i want to have you listen to me with a positive message, an optimistic view of what america can be. in contrast i think he was dark and divisive again. john podesta with the clinton campaign. thank you so much. back to you guys. all right. thanks very much, brianna keilar. let s play a clip. this is donald trump speaking about the former president of the united states, bill clinton. i told you, that was locker room talk. i m not proud of it. i am a person who has great respect for people, for my family, for the people of this country. and certainly i m not proud of it. but that was something that happened if you look at bill clinton, far worse. mine are words and his was action. his was what he s done to women. there s never been anybody in the history of politics in this nation that s been so abusive to women. so you can say any way you want to say it, but bill clinton was abusive to women. hillary clinton attacked those same women. and attacked them viciously. four of them are here tonight. one of the women, who is a wonderful woman, at 12 years old was raped at 12. her client, she represented, got him off. and she s seen laughing on two separate occasions, laughing at the girl who was raped. kathy shelton, that young woman, is here with us tonight. so don t tell me about words. absolutely i apologize for those words. but it is things that people say. but what president clinton did, he was impeached. he lost his license to practice law. he had to pay an $850,000 fine to one of the women, paula jones, who s also here tonight. and i will tell you that when hillary brings up a point like that and she talks about words that i said 11 years ago i think it s disgraceful and i think she should be ashamed of herself if you want to know the truth. he gets to run his campaign any way he chooses. he gets it decide what he wants to talk about. instead of answering people s questions, talking about our agenda, laying out the plans that we have that we think can make a better life and a better country, that s his choice. when i hear something like that, i am reminded of what my friend michelle obama advised us all. when they go low, you go high. [ cheers and applause ] she got some applause for that line but i didn t hear a robust vote of confidence, a defense of her husband in that response, because he really went after bill clinton. hillary clinton didn t mention bill clinton s behavior or actions at all. she didn t defend her actions at all. she just went after more or less donald trump essentially saying you re trying to go back and we re talking about you here. a couple of points on that. donald trump clearly tried to gin up support on the r50i9d right with his base. if you talk to conservatives, especially the all the rooilt conservative media they think these issues have been ignored or forgotten. you and i covered the white house at the time. the paula jones case, kathleen willey case, monica lewinsky impeachment that dominated our lives. i had color in my hair when that started. that was several years of our lives. they think we should still be talking about this later. and trump was trying to connect hillary clinton to that. will that be a winning strategy in the general election? we ll see how it plays out. but clearly donald trump came here tonight saying when i m asked about me i m going to deflect to bill clinton. i do think it helped him rally conservatives. i also know from e-mail conversations with clinton campaign people anderson cooper said this is sexual assault. and what donald trump he said he didn t do it. he said he was just talking about it. he did say tonight which he did not say in that weekend night video-e didn t address whether or not it actually happened. he just said he was sorry. donald trump did say he never did those things. so he was bragging about sexually assaulting women. and he said no, it s locker room talk. the clinton people that s going to be in an ad probably by the time we get to the end of this week. with anderson cooper asking a direct question and donald trump saying it s locker room talk. it s not locker room talk. it is not locker room talk to whether you re fantasizing about it speculating about it or talking about it of groping people, sexually assaulting people. that s a crime. but i will just say, and probably getting similar notes from republicans, i just got one from a top republican who s very skittish about donald trump saying that he did okay acknowledging the bar this is among republicans. that the bar is pretty low right now for him to kind of bring some of them back into the fold but that in the words of this republican he moved the conversation beyond the caught on tape hot mike situation. on the flip side of that i ve been hearing from some democrats who think that hillary clinton did well but wondering why didn t she put it away, wondering what could she have done differently to after the weekend that donald trump just had to just end it. just completely end his candidacy. and that she possibly could have with this debate but didn t. but you think that s in part the result of an hour before the debate he invites these women no. to come here not only to do a little joint photo opportunity with him but then to sit in the front row you mean whether she was rattled? yeah. i mean, i don t know. i didn t get the sense that she really changed her strategy much at all. that she was going to do what she was going to do. she clearly was ready for bill clinton s name to come up in the context of these women or in any other context. and he she made the decision she wasn t going to go there. she was going to instead hit all the demographics that she thinks that donald trump has offended, whether it s the disabled or the hispanics or muslims and so forth and she was just going to pretend like the bill clinton question didn t happen. she s trying to keep what she s got. she d she s ahead right now. she s head in the moltum in the last ten days and we don t know about the weekend. we don t know how that will be processed by voters or this debate which they ll be processing at the same time. what they learned over the weekend about donald 2ru78. and now this debate. hillary clinton came saying if i protect what i have i win the election. and she was it was clear she was hoping that donald trump hurt himself with his own words and donald trump turned in a much stronger performance in terms of punching, counterpunching and getting to the issues more favorable to him. a much better job tonight than in the first debate no doubt. our exclusive cnn/orc poll results momentarily. who won this debate? in the meantime let s go back to jake. thanks so much. appreciate it, wolf. i m back with our panel. something i want to throw out to everyone here. i ll start with this side and work over. the alicia machado moment was a throwaway line at the end of the last debate and it became a huge story because of how the clinton campaign went with it and because of donald trump s reaction. one thing i m wondering if donald trump introduced at this night s debate that we just talked about over here that might become a bigger thing for the clinton campaign and i think we can agree they re much more effective at the attacks and the commercials and with surrogates, et cetera. that is with donald trump saying if he gets elected president he s going to ask his attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor to put hillary clinton in jail. yeah. this is the kind of thing they do in countries not like the united states, where you lock up and jail your political opponents. this feeds into something a criticism we ve heard actually more from conservative critics of donald trump than liberal critics of donald trump. can you imagine this man with his dem pramt and his drive for vengeance having instruments of government at his hands, the irs, et cetera. i wonder if that was a much bigger gaffe than we are making it out to be. i think it is. i think it s a huge gaffe. republicans talk about the imperial presidency and how barack obama has abused his executive powers. imagine somebody being asked to serve as attorney general if you knew that a president was going to direct prosecutions. i m not a lawyer. but i get that. and it is as dana was pointing out nixonian to a great degree. and i think that it is also un-american to a great degree. and i think that is something the clinton campaign can use and can use very fevtly. also to me when he said i d put her in jail. remember during the convention lock her up. lock her up, lock her up. and he kind of tried to quiet it a little at the convention because he was in presidential mode. now this was a primary campaign debate to me tonight and what he was doing was rallying the base by saying lock her up effectively, which he did also, calling her a liar multiple times and the devil. multiple times. and saying he d put her in jail. and he said she had hate in her heart. i don t think that s going to play very well with voters. i think what happened was he said i m throwing out the playbook and i m going with, as you point out, i m going with the material that s worked for me when i go out there and speak to these rallies. this line of prosecuting hillary clinton is something he s used in his rallies. this is not a new idea. he just raised it to the level of a debate point here. and my guess is it will resonate well with his base and it will antagonize the people he needs to grow who worry about the things you point out, who worry about his temperament, worry about whether he would handle the job of president in a responsible way. so you know, i think he galvanized the base again, perhaps at the expense of expanding it. it s another iteration of her argument, which is in an ad, about having him near the nuclear codes. a man you can bait with a tweet shouldn t be near the nuclear codes. and he also probably shouldn t have the instruments of the military, of the justice department. so yeah, i think that ll certainly end up in an ad. and again, it s going to turn off those moderate swing voters who want a steady person, who want somebody who is steady in terms of their temperament, in terms of their manner, in terms of their speech and approach to issues. so i think this it wasn t a plant by hillary clinton in any way. i don t think it s going to end up in an ad because this isn t the issue she doesn t want to i don t think alleged criminality those who watched it i think it was cringeworthy for a lot of folks who watched it. jake, the two of us have ties to the philly suburbs. i still live there. you have family who are there. i ve waited, we re now a month out from the election, less if you start and think that people are already voting and i ve been waiting and waiting and waiting for the pivot or the outreach to the folks who come in from our area because if we had a nickel for every time they get invoked, even on snl, we d be wealthy individuals. it s never going to happen. i mean, this is the donald trump who got this far. i think there potentially is an emperor has no clothes thing going on around him where perhaps the people who could say to him you need to pivot won t do so for whatever reason. but this is what got him thus far and this is how he s going to ride it out. and i think that he feeds on the reaction that he gets from that base which is what keeps him hitting but michael, maybe he felt like he took the advice of the people who were telling him to pivot and be more muted in the last debate and it didn t turn out well for him. could be. so he decided well, the hell with that, i m going to throw all that out and go back to the stuff i know works. and just to elaborate, it s not michael and i are biased because we re from philadelphia but it s not just the philly burbs we re talking about, we re talking about white college educated voters, the people in the i-4 corridor in the middle of florida, we re talking about the people in northern virginia, in the suburbs of denver. these are voters that mitt romney did well with, that john mccain did well with. still not well enough to win harrisburg, where thousands show up for donald trump. and donald trump is underperforming with them. and i know that this i m sure he will win every online poll. i know that the breitbart crowd ate this up. my question is did he win over any suburban households in philadelphia? sure. i think he can. and let me use the issue here that you were just talking about to illustrate. talking about jailing the opponent and how this is dictators and all this kind of stuff. there is another side to this. and on a side that independent voters, the kind of folks you were talking about are very concerned about, and that is the politicization of the department of justice where you have an attorney general, eric holder, who said in that case of the black panthers group there that were at the polls in philadelphia and they were armed and they were in uniform. he said he wasn t going to do it because these are my people. again, i m sure he s winning fox news voters. that s not my point. when you talk about he said he would some fact checker is the fact check machine is going tilt right now. you re speaking against the politicization of the justice department under the obama administration. his answer was i ll tell my attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor to lock her up. that s not what he said. he said i will appoint a special prosecutor to look into it. yes. and then later in the same exchange he said if he were in charge of the government she d be in jail. as a response. i know the media doesn t get satire and humor but that was a humorous line we do. we get satire. you compare him to hitler and stalin locking people up when he said i don t think anybody mentioned hitler or stalin. but let s play it. let s play the exchange. i didn t think i d say this but i m going to say it. and i hate to say it. but if i win i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. there has never been anything like it. and we re going to have a special prosecutor. when i speak, i go out and speak, the people of this country are furious. in my opinion, the people that have been long-term workers at the fbi are furious. there has never been anything like this where e-mails and you get a subpoena. you get a subpoena, and after getting the subpoena you delete 33,000 e-mails. and then you acid wash them or bleach them, as you would say. a very expensive process. so we re going to get a special prosecutor and we re going to look into it because you know what? people have been their lives have been destroyed for doing 1/5 of what you ve done. and it s a disgrace. and honestly, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. secretary clinton everything he just said is absolutely false but i m not surprised. oh, really? i told people that it would be impossible to be fact-checking donald all the time. i d never get to talk about anything i want to do and how we re going to really make lives better for people. so once again, go to hillaryclinton.com. we have literally trump, you can fact-check him in real time. it s just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. because you d be in jail. secretary clinton. yeah. humor right there. you re saying he wasn t being serious? i m saying he used that line. it was humor to illustrate the point. and the point is as with the e-mails i mean, how many so he thought she was innocent of anything wrong with e-mails? how many stories have we seen, jake, in the last two weeks about destruction of computers, special privileges, the president president clinton gets on the plane i love you guys know i love jeffrey lord. i do. i m not joking. here we go. and i greatly appreciate this is a clearing of the throat. this is it. jake, you may want to get out of the way. but the idea that you are threatening to prosecute your opponent is as best i can tell unprecedented in american history. and i will say this. you don t appoint a prosecutor to investigate. you appoint a prosecutor to lay the groundwork to put somebody in jail. and here s the problem i have with the whole thing. but hold on a second. here s the problem i have with the whole thing. look, we do have a criminal justice system that is unfair, that is biased, but when people like black lives matter point this out people like yourself say they re race baiting, they re racist, and turn a deaf ear. so you can t have it both ways. you can t pretend to care about a broken criminal justice system only when donald trump is scoring political points about hillary clinton and then turn your deaf ear to the cries of actual people who are suffering. and there was a big missed opportunity tonight. when that muslim woman stepped forward, donald trump could have very easily said to her, i understand what you re going through. and he did. and he didn t. he did. let me finish. we ll get the tape. we ll get the tape. he very briefly said one thing. and then he basically gave an islamophobic answer to a question about islamophobia. why do i say that? because he said you the muslims have to report on the things that are going on. as if only the muslims have to do this. as if all of the mass shootings are done by muslims. you can say you want everyone in the country you see something say something. that s an american position. he says the muslims have a special responsibility. that s an islamophobic response. and he missed opportunity after opportunity to reach out. but don t play games with criminal justice with me. so kayleigh, let me ask you. you maintain and tell me what you think. that the first part, special prosecutor, serious, but then the other thing about because you d be in jail that was a joke. i do. and the audience laughed. so i think they clearly got the humor. but you know, to van s point about criminal justice and double standards and caring about citizens, you know who i care a lot about? petty officer christian saucier, who s sitting in a jail right now sentenced to one year in prison for taking eight photographs on a submarine to show his family and bringing back classified information home for him. christian saucier s in jail. hillary clinton did the same thing. she s out free because the fbi, to jeffrey s point, is politicized. they re friends. four of the people sitting at this table have worked in the white house. the white house must maintain an arm s length relationship from the prosecutorial power of the justice department. and it always has. except in the nixon administration where nixon did try to politicize both the fbi and the cia. it was one of the darkest moments of our history. what trump has suggested is straight out of the dictator s handbook. and it came during the same debate when he publicly broke with his running mate who dared to question vladimir putin. now, ken vogel of politico points out, but i remember this from my own work, that in ukraine a putin puppet, viktor yanukovych, did the same thing. he became president. he was a putin puppet. he locked up his predecessor, yulia tymoshenko. this guy is laying the groundwork for exactly he wants to crack down on the first amendment against journalists. in every rally he attacks journalists. now he wants to lock up his opponent just like putin s buddy. and even his running mate takes second fiddle to his pal putin hold that thought. coming up who won tonight s debate? what do voters think? we ll reveal the first results of our instant poll of debate watchers. and we ll get the first reaction from our focus group of undecided voters in the key battleground state of ohio. stay with us. yeah mom, the new kitchen s great. hey! if you want somethig to cook faster, you just double the heat right? no reason. hey mom, for laundry, the maximum load is just a suggestion right? oh that makes sense. ummm mom, how do i monitor my credit? ok. thanks mom. that was easy. sign up for credit karma s free credit monitoring today. we re here in the spin room getting reaction from all the candidates both the candidates surrogates. lots of reaction coming in. we re also standing by for the exclusive results of our cnn/orc poll of voters in ohio. we re going to get that momentarily. stand by for that. first official unofficial but poll results. scientific poll that we ve got, you re going to get those results momentarily. david chalian will be with us for that. the big question of the night, what did undecided voters think about donald trump s answer to the question about the leaked tape? pamela brown watched the debate with a group of these voters. we re about to show you what they thought. while you watch look at the bottom of your screen. if the lines go up, voters liked the answer. if the lines go down, they didn t like the answer. men s responses are in green, women in yellow. here s donald trump s response. just for the record, though, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago, that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent? i have great respect for women. nobody has more respect for women than i do. for the record you re saying you didn t do those things? you hear these things are said and i was embarrassed by it but i have tremendous respect for women. have you ever done those things? and women have respect for me. and i will tell you no, i have not. and i will tell you that i m going to make our country safe. pamela, these voters didn t seem to like his answer. yeah, as you saw the very strong reactions from these 29 undecided voters from the ohio state university. so let s get straight to them to see what their reaction was when donald trump defended himself against that access hollywood video. what did you think, barb, when you heard what he had to say? i find it hard to believe whatever he says. he just doesn t seem to be a truthful person. reporter: and you have two sons and you had sort of a visceral reaction to what he said in defense of that video and what he was saying in that video. what did you think? well, i just feel that everyone has placed all of the accent upon young women and how we should protect them. we are equal citizens. i would hope that my sons would not talk like he did and i have tried to raise them not to act that way. reporter: it s interesting, because he reiterated in his defense that this is locker room banter, that this is just words. what do you think, larry? did that resonate with you? no. because that s not locker room talk. and for a 59-year-old man to claim that that s locker room talk i think is offensive to the young men who are out playing sports and doing the right thing. to me, it s pure and simple, sexual assault. and he should be held accountable for his thinking and actions of sexual assault. so to you that is not just locker room banter? that s not. not at 59 years old, especially. i don t know any 59-year-olds who are in locker rooms. i just want to get quickly a show of hands. who thought that donald trump did enough to put that controversy surrounding the tape behind him? raise your hand if you think he did enough tonight in defense. okay. and there were some positive reactions when hillary clinton actually spoke after donald trump defended himself against that video. let s take a listen to what she had to say during the debate. this is who donald trump is and the question for us, the question our country must answer is that this is not who we are. that s why, to go back to your question, i want to send a message. we all should. to every boy and girl and indeed to the entire world that america already is great but we are great because we are good. so i want to ask you, what was it about hillary clinton s argument that resonated with you following donald trump s defense of the video? she stated that america is already great and i tend to agree with that. though we are slow in progressing in a number of areas, we are progressing and we need to continue the momentum. what about you? what did you think about hillary clinton s argument, the way that she reacted, particularly when he brought up bill clinton s past and the allegations against him? what did you think? i think that she tried to clarify that they weren t the same, that what donald trump had done was she had talked about her children and other people s children and daughters and that it just it was uncalled for and he should not have done it and didn t feel that his apology was sincere. and it s interesting because she largely sort of stayed away from going there. do you think that was a smart move? raise your hand if you think that was a smart move. and raise your hand if you think it was a smart move for donald trump to bring that up, if that was fair game. why do you think that? well, i think, you know, if everything is out on the table, then everything is fair game. is it apples to apples, absolutely not. but i don t think in these debates it just doesn t ever seem like anything s off the table. i m going to get a show of hands now. the big question, who do you think won this debate? hillary clinton. raise your hand if you think hillary clinton won tonight s debate. okay. raise your hand if you think donald trump won this debate. okay. so clearly there are some of you who thought this was a draw. raise your hand if you think tonight s debate was a draw. all right. there you go. there you have it, wolf. mixed response. coming up, we re going to talk about what they thought and who they are going to vote for, these undecided voters, if any of them cemented their vote after tonight s debate. you won t want to miss that. hillary clinton is now speaking to reporters aboard her aircraft. i want to listen in. go back and lean up against my stool but he was very present. we re going to take off. then we re going to bring you - you . [ inaudible question ]. nothing surprises me about him really, dan. i was surprised by the absolute avalanche of falsehoods. i mean, i really find it almost unimaginable that someone can stand and just tell, you know, a falsehood after falsehood. you all remember politifact said he was the most untruthful candidate they d ever evaluated. and we sort of did the numbers. i think they said he was like 70% untruthful. and so i think he exceeded that percentage tonight. how did president clinton anyway, thank you, guys. we ll come back in a few minutes. there she is. hillary clinton going to the back of her plane to speak to reporters, making some tough statements once again against donald trump. we have the results now of our instant poll. we ve been waiting for this. david chalian, our political director. give us the results. wolf, as you know, we did a pofl debate watchers. this is not a national poll of all voters. this is a poll of debate watchers and just like we saw in the first debate and the vice presidential debate, the audience skews a little more democratic. debate watchers are a little more democratic than we would see in a national poll overall. having said that, who won the debate? according to the debate watchers we polled, hillary clinton won the debate. 57% to 34% for donald trump. that s not as big of a victory as she got in our poll in the first debate but it is a clear victory here. but talk about besting expectations. take a look at this. did donald trump best expectations, did he do better than you thought he would do? 63% of debate watchers said donald trump did better than they expected. only 21% say that he did worse and 15% say he did the same as they expected. how about hillary clinton s expectation game? take a look at these numbers. did hillary clinton do better or worse than you expected? 39% say she did better. 26% said she did worse and 34% said she did about the same. hillary clinton the winner in this poll of who won the debate. but donald trump significantly overperforming expectations. but the polls show that she did win this debate. let s get immediate reaction from kellyanne conway, the trump campaign manager who is with us. what s your reaction to that? my reaction is that i m glad that people think that 60% according to your online poll believe that hillary clinton either did worse or the same as they expected. it showed she wasn t very well prepared for tonight s debate. and that really surprises me. because if she s anything she s, you know, very wonky. she s very pedantic, lawyerly in her responses. i would have thought she d be better prepared for this debate. ail heard all week, wolf, is that the town hall format is really great for her. whereas we know it s our sweet spot because donald trump is out there every single day engaging with voters. he loves that. he s at the rallies. he s at the smaller forum round tables. he s at his own town halls. he clearly won the debate tonight why? because if you watched anybody s shows this whole weekend we ve just been left for dead, it s all over, why even show up, will there be a debate, are people jumping ship. he came here to play tonight and he came here to take the case right to hillary clinton and to show americans this race is still what it s always been. past versus future. politician versus successful businessman. washington insider versus disrupter. and he made that case very clearly. he did not back down. kellyanne, i want to ask you about what he said at the beginning of the debate. more than one time he referred once again to what he said on that tape as locker room talk. you re his campaign manager, the only woman at the head of that campaign. what did you think when you saw and you heard that? truthfully, what was your reaction? my initial reaction was very close to what melania trump said. i was offended. and i think that language is offensive and disgusting. and i m also very happy that he apologized. i m glad that he holds himself excuse me. accountable. because i look at the full measure of people, what they ve said, what they ve done, dana, and how they deal with adversity that comes to him to them. and donald trump is absolutely correct. these are words compared to actions. and he made that very clear tonight that hillary clinton blaming and shaming the women in her husband s life, that is not somebody who s standing up for women. but the term locker room talk. you had the highest-ranking woman in congress, republican woman, kathy mcmorris rogers, blowing that off and saying no, no, no, this is suggesting sexual assault and that s a very unfortunate phrase and people should stop using it. why? because i know him better. and i know better. but it s what he said. he did not say the word sexual no. it s what he implied you want to talk about sexual assault, right here in the hall i know cnn doesn t want into the view them for whatever reason. you give miss universe a big platform. but we have in the hall tonight juanita broaddrick and paula jones and kathy shelton the 12-year-old rape victim that two years before the rape shield laws were implemented in arkansas hillary clinton defending her 42-year-old rapist successfully defending him getting him a plea bargain. she was willing to blame and shame that victim as well who was 12 years old. we can talk about sexual assault but let s have a full conversation about it. this is what i know. i have to assess people based on what i see in totem. this is a man i ve been alone with many times who s never been anything but gracious and a gentleman and elevated me to the top level of his campaign the way he s elevated women in the trump organization for decades. because he respects women. let me just say that cnn at the time many, many years ago did fully litigate these two gentlemen were actually covering the clinton white house fully, talk about and report on their stories at the time. because it is very old. and i just because you brought it up i just have to say, kellyanne how she treated them. no, no. it was real time. i just have to say because you brought it up that your boss himself back in 1998 told neil cavuto about these victims. i don t necessarily agree with his victims, talking about bill clinton. his victims are terrible. he, meaning bill clinton, is the real victim himself. he put himself in that position. and he talked about how unattractive these people are. so in 1998 we re not going to talk about paula jones because it s too old but we ll talk did what i m saying is at that time he was defending bill clinton and going after these guys and now he s changed he s gotten to know them. we took note of hillary clinton s comment on the campaign trail and actually she said all sexual assault victims deserve to be heard and believed. these are her words. she s running for president now. she wants to be the president of all people. i assume except for the ones she thinks are deplorable and airredeemable which is tens of millions. but in fairness i know we want to talk about this because we certainly don t want to talk about tonight s campaign performance. when hillary clinton just on her plane lying that donald trump said falsehood after falsehood. i was watching the debate in real time. politifact, the fact checker said he was right about her wanting to have a 550% increase in sir refugees let me ask you another question about the debate. donald trump said he had not spoken to his vice presidential running mate mike pence about syria and he disagreed with him. we re 30 days from the american people voting. mike pence will be out there campaigning tomorrow. is the message to the american people at mike pence rallies don t believe what he says because not at all. they were talking about two different things. i just talked to governor pence not ten minutes ago. he says hello. he and mr. trump had also talked about what a great debate we ve had between tuesday night the vice presidential debate and tonight obviously donald trump winning here. in a vice presidential debate the conversation was about humanitarian crisis. and that s what governor pence was referring to. and mr. trump said and he said the united states might have to use force. governor pence the united states might he might have to. and donald trump said tonight i disagree with that. and i haven t spoken with him. about that particular aspect of it since the debate. that is true p they ve spoken many times this week. but let me be clear. on tv on your network today cnn s jake tapper took tim kaine to account because he couldn t answer a simple question about what hillary clinton said in the e-mails about having open borders. we know she s for open borders but the only way we know it now is because we saw it in her e-mails we did hear something extraordinary from donald trump today. he said if he s elected president he will ask the justice department to name a special prosecutor to go after hillary clinton. and then he went one step further and said he would arrest her and lock her up he would put her in jail. in all of the years, i don t remember a time in american history when one candidate has said of the other candidate if he wins the other candidate s going to jail. donald trump is channeling the frustration of a lot of americans he hears from, wolf. so many americans say i can t believe that people have been their lives have been ruined, their livelihood gone, they face jail time for doing far less than hillary clinton did hear and yet she was completely exonerated for deleting 33,000 e-mails, not turning over another 17,000. that s 50,000 right there. setting up the private server to begin with. saying that there s no classified information. fbi director comey said that s not true. i only had one device. she had many. they took a hammer to them. the story goes on and on. and it s an active investigation. in other words, just less than two weeks ago did ybut you understand the enormity of that statement. he s going to lock up his opponent if he wins. well, no, what he said is he wants to appoint a special prosecutor because he feels and he channels nearly public will here he hears all the time if we don t hear about the disasters in obama care and her failure with the russian reset and benghazi we re always hearing about the e-mails. and he is telling he told america tonight what america has told him. the frustration that there s a different set of rules for this woman as goes for e-mails. and she i you ve got to run. i m going to put up on the screen the results of our poll. you re a professional pollster. you ll see the results. these are people who actually watched the debate and millions and millions of americans watched. who won the debate? 57% said hillary clinton won the debate. 34% said donald trump won the debate. that s the results of our cnn/orc poll. kellyanne, thanks very much for joining us. i watched a different debate, but thank you. coming up we re going to have a reality check on some of the most contentious statements we heard from the candidates tonight. and we ll reveal more results from our own poll of watchers. what was their response to trump s attempts to explain his vulgar comments caught on tape? stay with us. welcome back. we re here in the spin room following this historic debate. we ve got a reality check, some fact checking with tom foreman and phil mattingly. tom foreman, first to you. what have you found out? wolf, attacks and insults have characterized this campaign for months now. and tonight as well. with hillary clinton saying donald trump has gone after women again and again. but it s not only women and it s not only this video that raises questions about his fitness to be our president. because he has also targeted immigrants, african-americans, latinos, people with disabilities, p.o.w.s, muslims, and so many others. that is really an enormous list of people up there. could this possibly be true? well, if you go all wait back to when he announced his candidacy, yeah, at some time or another he s either said or done something to disparage people on every one of these lists. this was actually a very easy one to check. and her claim is true. wolf? thank you, tom. phil mattingly, you ve been doing a reality check as well. yeah, that s right. it wasn t just hillary clinton that was taking some swings tonight. donald trump rolling off a litany of attacks against bill and hillary clinton. included this one. that bill clinton lost his law license. but what president clinton did, he was impeached. he lost his license to practice law. so here s the claim, that bill clinton lost his law license. quite simply was no longer allowed to practice law. so here are the facts. in the wake of revelations that bill clinton lied during the monica lewinsky investigation the arkansas supreme court brought a disbarment lawsuit against clinton. now, clinton agreed as part of the resolution to that lawsuit the day before leaving office to a five-year suspension of his arkansas law license as part of that plea deal to put an end to the lewinsky investigation. so where does that leave us? the verdict. it s true. on donald trump s claim that bill clinton lost his law license for five years. it s accurate. for this and all of tonight s reality checks go to cnn.com/realitycheck. wolf? cnn s coverage of the second presidential debate continues right after this. a high one. donald trump s campaign staggered after the video where the bragged he could grab a woman s genitals. then he went to attack mode and hillary clinton responded. look, it s just not true. you didn t delete them? personal e-mails. not official. we turned over 35,000. what about the other 50,000? please allow her to respond. she didn t talk while you talked. that s true. i ll try not to in this debate because i d like to get to the questions that the people have brought here tonight to talk to us about. and get off this question. okay, donald, i know you re into big diversion tonight. anything to avoid talking about your campaign and the way it is exploding and the way republicans are leaving you. the news this morning,
hampshire which will be a town hall, same format as sunday s debate here on cnn. dana bash joins us with the details and political strategy behind this. this basically seems like an obvious dry run for sunday night. one source told me it was a scrimmage. they really want donald trump to kind of retain his muscle memory from town halls. he hasn t done as many town halls as chris christie or john mccain who basically lived in new hampshire where a town hall is part of the political tdna there. but the fact is they want him to be in an intimate settic just like on sunday night. they have chosen the place where chris christie had his first down hall when he announced for president in 2016. and chris christie is involved in trying to get donald trump ready stylistically for the idea said, explicitly to me and others that what made him success flfl that debate. he had the practice. one texted me as it was going on last night, practice practice, it matter. i spoke to a source familiar with trump s debate strategy and i said are you going to fly some of pence s people into trump tower to help him and the answer was of course not. they could not be more different. what difference would it make? it couldn t matter. and hillary clinton is taking a liter schedule and focussing on debates. gre. she s doing what she did before the first debate. the debate team now has shifted back. i will say that trump s schedule is clear on friday. he s not going campaign and he s going to be prepping. stay with us. i want to brick in the rest of the panel. the fact that trump is doing this, essentially run-through town hall for those who said he didn t prepare enough it will certainly i assume come as good news. i think so. look, i think inside the trump campaign there is a sense that donald trump needs the practice. and that the only way to get him to focus is to actually have this dry run or scrimmage, as dma is calling it. and i think it could really help him. however we re all going to be watching it. don t forget. so he s going to be judged on this town hall before he does the one on sunday night. and it doesn t work with donald trump to say be like mike. that is not going to work with for him. so he s going to be donald trump. how concerned are you that a town hall format might not be to his greatest strength? i think the moderator is going to be a concern on sunday night. he s tough. bold. brash. anderson cooper is going to be there he s going to be tough on donald trump. he s going to be tough on anybody but think what people don t remember in the process is donald trump did a lot of town halls. in salem, some in london the day before the primary. won in rochester, new hampshire. in iowa. donald trump did one in virginia on monday with the veterans. this has been a consistent message. who most people are accustomed to are large scale rally wills donald trump talks for 40 minutes. and hopefully what you are going to see is donald trump at his best interacting in a small environment one on one with those people and really answering their questions and really hopefully getting a head start, if you will on what the questions are that will be asked on sunday night. hopefully the same concerns people have sunday night will be addressed tomorrow night in new hampshire. and as a trump supporter are you worried he s not taking enough time off in advance of this debate? no i think friday is good to take that time in the mock town hall tomorrow is good. the veterans town hall. he just had that on monday. he does very well in this format. i think back to the commander ner chief town hall. where the consensus is donald trump did better. they were upset that hillary clinton, how she appeared in a town hall. he did well because of the simple fact he likes people. he s got at engaging with people. take hillary clinton. she seems to hold in contempt anyone who disagrees with her. so i think he likes people and engages with people in a real way and hillary clinton does not. is there consensus among republican there is a donald trump needs this debate? needs to do much better? yes. 100%. 110% if that is possible. amongst republican whose like donald trump, those who don t. those who are his nearest and dearest say he needs do better. and that means saying on the message of what he wants to talk about as much as possible and don t get into a tit for tat with hillary clinton as much as he tries to go to him which is tlo question he ll try to do again. there is till zoing to be tit for tat. but whether it is on policy or. her terms or his. or her terms. how concerned are you ? the stakes are high for hillary clinton. she comes in with wind at her back but the pressure is on to keep that going. that is right. and i think expectations manage at this point. i agree with the first part of what she said. there is a format that works good for donald trump. he does engage people really well. i think hillary clinton depending on the person it can be hit or miss. so i m concerned there is a question that comes up and she comes across as guard order protected and that is normally when she comes across as not likable. i will say i ve seen several videos where she s been in the town hall and gone very very well. essential things are on her side and that is all the more reason i think the clinton campaign and clinton supporters have a lot more to worry about. i would agree. and the clinton campaign and spoupporters across the board should always be concerned. that is how you win: the lead nationally in every battleground state now especially in ohio, i would say to clinton supporters, don t believe them. get out and vote and mobilize and make sure donald trump never gets to the white house that is basithe only way that will happen. and anything can happen. i actually agree with corey. i think this town hall format will be good for donald trump because it can keep him boxed him. he won t have a teleprompter or notes but he ll have the kind of parameters of the moderators, the people in front of him that i think will keep him much more managed. or at least i think that is what the campaign hopes. if the king of town halls is john kasich. he did more than a hundred in new hampshire. he emotes and hugs people. he was great anyway in that format. i actually disagree with you guys. i think that donald trump has had some difficulty at town halls. and you have done them with him. he doesn t address the the person directly. he turbid and talked to you. didn t seem to embrace the person who asked the question or ask that person more questions about their question which hillary clinton does really well. and your town hall, one of the key moments so far for hillary clinton is when she said she s not a natural politician and said that at a town hall. donald trump has not sort of oured part of his personal self. in any of these settings. even when people were asking for it. and i think that is a difficult part for him. doesn t want to share that way. we re going continue this conversation with the panel in just a moment throughout the evening. of course the two human resouou on. on sunday starting at 4:00 eastern time. as corey mentions it ll be ducking out for a bit to actually moderate. and our cnn live coverage duets under way at 4:00 eastern time. and just ahead eric trump on whether his dad pays federal income taxes. and the line from last night s debate that became a head line and what latino voters are saying about it when we continue. federal income tax for ulta 18 years. we did talk with dana bash and here is the answer he gave. has your father paid federal income taxes. we pay a tremendous amount of income taxes. federal income taxes. yes. and beyond taxes we also employ tens and tens of thousand os people. eric my question now is he has paid federal income taxes over the last 15 years, yes or no. of course. absolutely. my father pays a tremendous amount of tax. we vas a company pay a tremendous amount of tax. if we ever see your father s federal income taxes it will show no question about it. he pays federal income taxes. for some this puts the answers to rest. few people have dug deeper than . i spoke to him earlier this evening. when eric trump insists his father had paid federal income tax, based on your reporting over the years are you skeptical? well i m not really sure anderson what anything is that eric trump has sceeen. i think both of the trump boys tend to get their father in hot water whenever they speak up on these issues. i think the returns in question go back, you know, two decades. and eric trump is i think his early thirties. so i m not really i doubt that his father was showing him all the tax returns when he was a toddler. that being said, i think one of the interesting things that s dwo gone on in this debate off the new york times story is that there is a lot of focus on the legality of this massi ivive deduction he took. in fact the writeoff represent an epic business failure. it is i think representative of about 9 hundr$9 hundred million of loans he guaranteed personally in the late 1980s and all of it, all of it ended up in a giant train wreck. he bought airlines, hotels. he overleveraged his casino business. and he ended up with a ton of debt he couldn t repay because he overpaid for properties. he didn t think far enough ahead about the prospects for the various businesses he was entering and classic donald trump decision making. he s actually a very undisciplined, short-term, non strategic thinker. and that writeoff is a big numeric emblem of that tendency he has. you know, obviously trump could put all of these questions to rest by releasing his tax returns. he says he won t release them while he s under audit even though there is nothing preventing him from doing that. and by his lawyers own admission his returns from 2002-2008 are no longer under audit. and by the way anderson the trump campaign has not given any proof to anyone they are actually under audit. they could release the letter interest the irs showing that to be the case and they haven t. secondly, even if there were an audit and they haven t made that clear that would prevent him from releasing anything. that is just not all of the audit stuff a red herg. as somebody who was sued by trump for writing that he wasn t as rich as he claimed he was a suit that was dismissed by the way how much does something like that actually bother him? i think it bothers him immensely. for all his bluster and bullying and bragging, he s immensely insecure about some very fundamental things. and one of them is his sense of himself. and he his net worth and how rich he is, and where he figures on the pecking order is much more important to him than it is to anyone else. no one cares about his wealth as much as donald trump himself carries about it. appreciate it you being on. thanks. still plenty of questions out there. back with the panel. dana you had that conversation with eric trump. does that settle anything? or does it raise more questions? no. i think questions that were out there remain. there was only so much time and there were a wloft unanswered questions even as he was answering the questions. one of which frankly looking back i should have been specific. personal income taxes or income taxes or maybe the obvious is he said he d seen them. did you see the check, how do you actually know he paid the income taxes? it was his knee jerk reactions as the son of somebody who s under fire to try to put it to bed by saying yes because that was the only answer seemed like he could give. but we don t know. donald trump, even him not releasing the actual return, the full returns which are obviously very large has eric trump pointed out in the past. he could just ak a knowledge one way or the other whether he did or did not pate personal income tax as result of this writeoff. he did release a statement saying i paid hundreds of millions in taxes. federal taxes was part of that. i think this whole new york times story is emblematic of the reason he shouldn t release his taxes. they put on a headline that says donald trump could have not paid income taxes for 18 years. since when do we have speculatery head lines with no basis to make that fact other than the fact there is a loss claim on a tax form. there is no proof me didn t pay taxes. why would you release hundreds of pages that could be misconstrued by the media. he could release his information. what he paid and made and charitable contributions without releasing all pages. i think it is irrelevant at this point. the issues that are affects american people today job, immigration, their own personal tax, burden of washington d.c. regulations. look if people want to dwell on donald trump s taxes, they are welcome to do that. that does nothing to set the agenda moving forward. and what we do know is 11% of people think hillary clinton is honest and trust worthy. and 55 points in the wrong direction if you think the country is on the right track or the wrong track. the american people don t carolina they care about jobs and safety. they are so tone deaf when it comes to these issues poll after poll, multiple majorities of mesh people. trump supporters. believe wurm number one stacks are the civic duty and people should pay them. and above 70% believe he should release his taxes. and put legality aside. it is unseamly when you have a multi billionaire who touts his business ak meyou men and how rh he is every 18 seconds and then there was a news article today how about back 1978 and 79 he did a lot of losses so not just he didn t pay taxes but his business acumen is. if you want to buy the argument he had a good accountant and he didn t have to pay taxes. a question is where are his investments? what potential conflicts of interest are there with foreign governments? particularly since he s said i m going the hand over my business to my kids. and they will still be running that business. these are the things that would be outlined in a tax return. not just the bottom line and not the charitable and all these are serious foreign policy issues. i think the public deserves answers. on that point certainly. but there is at point and that is, this is the same person who s called for transparency from potential opponents from this opponent. he s asked for wall street transcripts. he s asked president obama whechbs just thinking about a run for a birth certificate. so why would not not meet the very staple standard. one of the famous lines is he s not even meeting the nixon standard. donald trump said in the first debate he ll release his full tax returns as soon as hillary clinton releases 33,000 e-mails. very clear. and more over he did call for hillary clinton to release her transcripts from those wall street speeches and she refused to do that as well. where she s made 10s of memos from executives. if you want to see donald trump d holdings. go to elections and commissions and poult the piece of paper with the properties he owns and the there is a lot of totally different. not in those documents that would be in the tax returns. yes. no question about it. the federal the financial disclosure has some information. but not nearly as much as you would learn by what he pays or doesn t pay in taxes with with regard to hisregard to his company. if hillary clinton, if none of her tax information was out there, wouldn t the trump campaign or any opponent be raising lots of red flags about that. i think congress has put in place laws that suggest what we complaint expect of someone running for the highest office in the land. you fill out financial disclosure furm. donald trump did that. we have a law that required her to keep the e-mails that she disobeyed. one candidate has violated transparency laws. and thaz hillary clinton. nub of that has been proven. it has been no no [inaudible]. by a continue to say there is no law that donald trump has got to release his taxes. but the fact of the matter is that again for 40 years this has been the standard. and the american people expect that. for all the reasons that we just talked about. the most important one i do believe is what gloria mentioned. when you have someone who we know has a very strong bromance with vladimir putin and you have somebody that we already know has connections with chinese banks who owe, who actually own the debt that he holds. and he is asking us to give him the position of commander in chief when he would have the ability to pass laws and to be favorable [indiscernible]. [inaudible]. i know you ignore the fbi director when it is not convenient sure. [inaudible] we got take a break. more with our panel ahead. mike pence has been getting good reviews for his debate performance. also controversy about his comment about the mexican thing. and the deadly hurricane barrelling towards the u.s. tonight, where it s head and how bad the damage could be picking up for kyle. here you go. you wouldn t put up with part of a pizza. um. something wrong? so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? you want the whole thing? yes, yes! live whole. not part. aleve. hey, it s been crazy with school being back- so we re constantly going over our data limit. oh, well, now - all of our new plans come with no data overages. wow, no more overages? so that means. go on.say it. we ll finally be in control. and we re back. introducing new at&t plans with no data overage charges. are rapist or criminalsful or john mccain is not a hero he s showing you who he is. senator. you whip t out that mix can thing again. can you defend it? aliens who have come into this country illegally and perpetrated violence and taking american lives. he also said and many of them are good people. you keep leaving that out of your quote. that mexican thing sparked a lot of discussion. joining me your reaction to what the governor said last night about whipping out that mexican thing again? well what can i tell you? i giggled a lit bit because i thought it was a weird phrase. for a while i thought maybe anthony weiner had gone crazy celebrating national taco day which was yesterday. but when he was part of the republican conference he was a very compassionate man who supported and spoke up in immigration reform. so i give him the benefit of the doubt. but most of america doesn t know mike pence. and only knows him as donald trump s running mate. and whirn the running mate of a man who s spoken about mexicans and said some are rapists and said this things about mexicans for 16, 17 months now. somebody who s attacked a judge for being of mexican heritage. an indiana born judge. from the state that mike pence represents you don t get the benefit of the doubt from most americans and we ve seen it turned into a hashtag, a rallying call for a lot of latinos. do you think it is actually going to hurt him in the latino community? look at the latest national polling on the latino hispanic vote. donald trump winning 17% of likely hispanic voters. and secretary clint 65%. that was before the debates. do you think this hurts? i ll be the first to concede we re not doing great among vote oefrs color and by the way the republican party hasn t finish me wlex cycles so this is hardly now donald trump. it has done better in years past. what matters to me as an hispanic is he went down to mexico and i thought acted very presidential when he met with president nieto down there and he said that the mexican american community is a treasure to the united states. e we need and we love legal immigration. and no one by the way is mored a versusly affected by legal immigration than legal immigrants. they are the ones most cheated when we say it is okay illegals to hop the line and get in front of them to. we are going to get control of our border. we love immigration. he s the son of an immigrant. married to an immigrant. we know what immigration does to the united states in terms of culture, vitality. but we ve been right as a people to do it through legal means. and there are only key states with largely hispanic populations. it is not monolithic population by any means. is it possible the way governor pence handled donald trump s statements on undocumented immigrants how he pivoted away from trump s cross-talk about conservative deportation that might help some conservatives vote for trump. there are some conservative latino voters but they are the huge minority. the very small minority. i came to this country legally too. i came by plane. i did it legally. but i also understand and i think most latinos have the empathy to understand that but for the grace of god there go i. i came as an eight-year-old girl. but could very well have been a dream ad girl. had not my parents not had the money to hire lawyers and make me legal the way they did. i could have been one of those girls who found out when they were 19 and going into college that i was illegal. but for the grace of god i realized that wasn t the case because i was a lucky and fortunate one. but because this campaign has preyed on latinos, has preyed on immigrants. has made it a pillar of their campaign to attack hispanics and attack immigrants and make it one of the things they stand on they don t get the benefit of the doubt. and [ inaudible ]. donald trump has made it so since june 16th when he first announced and called mexicans rapist. it wasn t me, steve. it was donald trump who went on the attack against mexicans from day one of this campaign. steve go ahead. what you are doing is you are trying to make the illegal immigrants the victims. they are breaking the law. the victims are not illegals. people who break our immigration laws, people who come here in a way not allowed by our laws. the victims are the american people. steve, anna is talking about language that your candidate, the candidate you are supporting has used when you hear some of the lack she s used, do you have any problems with it? anderson i ll be the first to say particularly early in the campaign i didn t like the tone. and i think he alienated some hispanics unnecessarily. i think we re doing our very very best to win them over now and try to convince voters of color whether hispanics or african americans that the democratic party has taken you for granted and pandered to you whether it is illegal immigration or schools or economic opportunity and what we are saying is we have a better way forward for you. and part of it by the way for legal hispanics is that illegal immigration is a non start are for us. okay. i got to go. and there is a reason why your hispanic advisory council has shrunk every day. they are ashamed of the words donald trump has used and you should begin by not calls us voters of color and understanding that african american, muslims, hispanics we are all different people with different priorities and mike pence and tim kaine will both be on new day tomorrow morning. a closer look at the impact gary johnson and jill stein can have, my conversation with ralph nader next. smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there s nothing or something about it. ii d look her right in that fat wbr id= wbr25265 /> ugly face of hers.age. she s a slob. she ate like a pig. a person who s flat chested is very hard to be a 10. does she have a good body? no. does she wbr id= wbr25565 /> have a fat [expletive]? absolutely. do you treat women with respect? i can t say that either. 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[indiscernible] . are you supporting any particular candidate this president no because what i would like do is comment favorably or unfavorably on what they do or say. if as the choins between hillary clinton or donald trump do you see much difference? of course. but they both flunk. the country deserves a lot better. a failed gambling czar who became a corporate welfare king that s cheated his way to a billion dollars. and the secretary clinton. more wall street, more war. a hawk that scares the generals. the libya disaster. she over raid gait whose didn t want to top teple the regime in libya because of the chaos. what will you do on election day if you don t like any candidates? there are third parties and there are write ins. you know the argument about spoilers. you have called the whole idea of a spoiler candidate as the politically bigoted word. the two major party candidates never call each other spoilers. it is only directed to a third party candidate who is considered someone who takes votes away. if you have equal right to run for election, then we are all trying to get votes or so we re trying to spoil one another or none of us are spoilers. there are some folks watching the polls and saying that hillary clinton is having a hard time getting some millennial voters who were you i peel to back then who are also went for president obama. if gary johnson or jill stein are taking votes from hillary clinton but don t have an actual chance of getting into the white house themselves, aren t they by defense spoilers. not at all. why don t major candidates take away votes from johnson and stein. in the 190s, he took away some of his platform. so this idea of scapegoating. whining, constantly whining in instead of the democratic party looking at themselves in the mirror. they have been fiddling in the house of representatives trying to assemble all the bad republican votes they passed in the house. they still haven t come out with it. so if donald trump won on election day and it is a close election you don t think or hillary clinton won, that the third party candidates would have had anything to do with that. not when they are at one, two, three percent. and they are both going to shrink from the present polls. they will be lucky to get 1 or 2%. in. so states they are doing double digits. there are all kind of sine que non. like in florida. 300,000 registered democrats voted for bush. the secretary of state with her shenanigans. the butterfly ballot misidentifying thousands as exfelons, taking away their vote. the supreme court decision selecting 5-4 george w. bush. there are a lot of seen sine que nones. and i would be surprised if by pushing gore he made critical comments on corporation, oil companies and stronger on the environment that he got far more votes than whatever would have you actually think by being in the race yes. when you are at that small level percentage that we were. just a surge of getting out the vote in wisconsin because they thought that the green party was nibble away at them, you know, ensured them gets wisconsin. do you think about how the world would be different had you not run in 2000. i think the result would have been george w. bush. there was a poll right after the election. without me in it and he won it. but look how crazy it is, anderson. we have an election where gore won by 550,000 votes national and the electoral college took it a way from him, this crazy electoral it s scapegoating at its worst. the democrat party doesn t want to look itself in the mirror and ask itself, why isn t it land sliding the worst republican party in history and defending the country? they don t want to look at those. they re dialing for the same commercial dollars. thank you very much. you re welcome. coming up, breaking news. after battering the caribbean and killing ten people, hurricane matthew heads for florida. we ll get the latest. hrimp. and try as much as you want of flavors like new parmesan peppercorn shrimp. just come in before it ends. i m jamie foxx for verizon. in the nation s largest independent study by rootmetrics, again, verizon is the number one network. hi, i m jamie foxx for sprint. and i m jamie foxx for t-mobile. (both) and we re just as good. really? only verizon was ranked number one nationally in data, reliability, text and call and speed. yeah! and you re gonna fist bump to that? get out of my sight. don t get fooled by a cut rate network. verizon gives you tons of data without all the restrictions. get 20 gigs and 4 lines for only $160. with no surprise overages on america s best network. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. southeast of west palm beach. it is getting closer and closer. this is the latest advisory. winds 115 miles an hour. gusts of 150. strong category 3 storm. moving to the northwest at 12 miles an hour. it is going to restrengthen. we are thinking that it is starting to get a little better organized and it will have time to strengthen into a possible category 4 storm just off the coast of say, miami-dade, broward counties. thursday afternoon. 130-mile-per-hour winds. and then either brush the coast of florida, move inland, or stay out to sea. see where this cone is of uncertainty. so all of these different scenarios will mean huge differences in the impacts that are felt. this storm jogs a little more to the west. it could mean much more far-reaching impacts. it does look like it is going to loop back to the north and east by the time we get into the weekend. and then a lot of uncertainty from there. some of the models are showing this actually bending back around and impacting florida for a second time. as we get into the middle part of next week. a lot of uncertainty there. one thing we are certain of, this will have huge impacts for florida and the southeast coasts in the coming days. up next, our second hour of 3 360. more on how hillary clinton and donald trump are getting ready for the town hall debate. woah! you re not taking these. hey, hey, hey! you re not taking those. woah, woah! you re not taking that. come with me. you re not taking that. you re not taking that. you re not taking that. mom, i m taking the subaru. don t be late. even when we re not there to keep them safe, our subaru outback will be. 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all. a gunman is holding more than 30 hostages at a high school. eight people have been shot, including at least four students. we can only make an appeal to the gunman. stop. there s been enough already. an all white jury acquitted four white police officers of assault in the videotaped beating of black motorist rodney king. i was scared. i was scared for my life. across the nation, people were paying attention to this. the officers struck him with batons between 53 and 56 times. it was one of the first cases where there was actual video of a case of alleged police brutality. for 13 months, the city of los angeles has been a pressure cooker, building up to the rodney king trial. we, the jury, in the above entitled action find the from the intersex intersection. and they said, don t go down there. don t go down there. and they said to dana, who s very blond, very white, don t go down there, and that s the worse thing you can say to a journalist is don t go down there. she turns around. she s been hit in the head with a rock. i tell them where the closest hospital is at, and he says come on, let s get out of here. i looked at him and said i live here and i can t go. so i said goodbye and i did what i could do, i took pictures. in the midwest, the story of a notorious serial killer opens another chapter. jeffrey dahmer came back to his hometown today, back to face justice and the family whose son he took from them 14 years ago. already convicted and sentenced for 15 murders in milwaukee, jeffrey dahmer returns to ohio to stand trial, where his killing spree began. jeffrey dahmer, who had made some incriminating statements, if you will, a confession, that he had actually picked up his first victim back in the late 70s in bath, ohio. he picked up this young boy on the highway and the kid was about 18 years old. steven hicks was hitchhiking. dahmer picked him up and brought him to his house. and when hicks wanted to leave, dahmer attacked him with a barbell and killed him. then he chopp epe eped the k and put him in a garbage bag and then in the back of his car. the police for some reason stopped him. the detective rich muncie made a notation that there was a garbage bag in the back seat of the car and jeffrey dahmer indicated that he was just taking it to the dump. police let him go. he turned the car around, went like in this new jersey since the lindbergh kidnapping, and it was just something that didn t happen. you are about to see some of the most horrible video to come out of the los angeles rioting. you can see how this fire is really taking off now. people are running back and forth, looting is under way. it was like wildfires that were just sprouting in different parts of the city. a helicopter reporter spotted a man being dragged from his truck and beaten. i don t think anybody anticipated what took place at the corner of florence and normandy. this is just horrendous. the man s name is reginald denny. he s alive, but very badly hurt. when reginald denny basically was bricked in that crucible that took place there, i think at that moment we knew that this was going to be different. los angeles is a city on edge tonight and under curfew as she s noticing a real difference in her joint comfort. she s single. .and high levels of humiliation in her daughter. in just 7 days, your joint comfort can be your kid s discomfort. osteo bi-flex. made to move. but my back pain was making it hard to sleep and open up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a slp aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. now i m back. aleve pm for a better am. redid you say 97?97! yes. you know, that reminds me of geico s 97% customer satisfaction rating. 97%? helped by geico s fast and friendly claims service. huh. oh yeah, baby. geico s as fast and friendly as it gets. woo! geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more. to face justice and the family whose son he took from them 14 years ago. the very latest on a city under siege. los angeles is shrouded in smoke from arson fires. like scenes from a nightmare, the television helicopters needed to just turn their cameras on, for it seemed anywhere they were focused there was looting. i see this guy tearing off down the street pushing a shopping cart and looking up going, are those pampers? and it wasn t just south central l.a. large-scale violence broke out in the suburbs too. we went towards the edge of korea town and south central and just filmed people going in and out of the stores and coming out with television sets and stuff. a store overstocked for mother s day, nothing left. why? do you know know? i don t know. they said, we re going shopping. it wasn t just african-americans. it was a lot of latinos. it was white people, lots of them. they were poor people. then suddenly the story wasn t a racial story. it was an economic story. looters of every race and color. just like their victims. that s not right! that s not right what y all doing! i came from the ghetto too. by late morning, it was clear that if anything, the lawlessness was increasing. fbi agents have joined the search for a missing new jersey executive, sidney reso, president of the exxon international corporation, disappeared yesterday morning. on the second day, exxon received a phone call and the message of the phone call was that a letter could be found in the livingston shopping mall taped to a lamp post. federal authorities say they prefer not to speculate on the conditions or whereabouts of sidney reso while they re still searching for him. they say only that they hope to find him alive. mass murderer jeffrey dahmer made his return to summit county amidst a mass of security. they drove me to the prison where they were holding him and he was in a cell that was a suicide watch cell. guards behind glass on a little balcony that watched every move you made. we had to do all the paperwork that would probably take weeks and months in less than 24 hours. i spent that evening trying to figure out what i was going to say. it was very difficult. i had no warm feeling for this guy. he had no compassion. he had no emotion. why the cannibalism? it made me feel like they were a permanent part of me. but on april 30th, dahmer s heinous crimes are not dominating headlines. for the past 24 hours, residents of los angeles have seen their city caught up in a kind of free floating anarchy. gangs of street thugs neighborhoods and the violence spread well outside the core of l.a. the disturbance was moving west toward the affluent areas of the city, and the city s elite were starting to panic. while beverly hills and other west side areas are protected, neighborhoods closer to the turmoil are left to fend for themselves. the store owners in korea town were arming themselves and making outposts on the top of their stores. shopkeepers say all of this damage happened because police ignored this neighborhood and ignored businesses built over a lifetime. 20 years down the drain. i mean, can t people realize what they re doing is wrong? this is not the way to overcome racism. law enforcement simply could not be everywhere. and quite often, the tv trucks would get there before the police did. los angeles is bracing for a second night of burning, killing, and looting in response to the rodney king verdict. now officials prepare for night fall. i can t predict what s going to happen, but it s going to be worse. good evening, the saga of sidney reso is now a kidnapping case. in the case of exxon executive sidney reso, the fbi is racing against the clock to interpret clues from a ransom letter. investigators have received a ransom note from a group that calls itself the rainbow warriors. rainbow warrior is a name of a ship owned by green peace l.a. the first letter clearly wanted to make the point that this was in fact in retaliation for the exxon valdes, which had occurred a few years prior to that. they threatened to kidnap additional exxon executives. the fib recovered a ransom letter demanding millions of dollars and a cell phone number for further instructions. they set a ransom demand, which was the highest ransom demand in the united states, $18.5 million. you made the obligatory calls to greenpeace. you called other environmental organizations had you ever heard of such a thing, and the answer is no. first another terrible drama is unfolding in california. a gunman is holding more than 30 hostages at a high school. a horrific story in a small town in northern california is about to play out on live television. in 1992, it s a rare media event, but today all too common. 911 emergency. listen carefully. it s frank crawford high school, and there s someone with a gun. it was a normal workday. i heard a commotion in the dispatch area, and i asked someone what was going on, and they said there was a shooting at lyndhurst possibly. and my first reaction was i had never heard of anything like that. this was seven years before columbine. i and other detectives took off toward lindhurst high school. makes history selling at just over $30,000. and to think this one actually has a surround-sound stereo. the 2016 cla. lease the cla250 for $299 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. this has been the worst night of violence in los angeles since the 1965 watch riot. a nonstop orgy of burning, looting, and chaos. i don t believe this stuff. i just can t. the number of injuries has reached two dozen and the number of arrests has reached 2,000. los angeles is still a city under siege this morning with scores of fires still burning. as a third day of rioting dawns on los angeles, the mayor and police are slowly securing the city. we have got to make a commitment to have a sufficient show of force that we can gain control over the situation out in the field. good morning. 4,000 additional national guard troops will be sent to los angeles today to beef up the 2,000 troops which are already here. and federal troops regular army have been put on alert. city officials want a massive show of force to quell the rioting, looting, and burning which has rocked this city for the last two days. the bringing in of the national guard makes some difference in terms of enabling the existing law enforcement resources to be where they needed to be to try to hold more territory. what exactly have they been asked to do? we re re-enforcing law enforcement and clearing areas that have yet to be cleared or have yet to be damaged. in the short term, it had a very useful effect. however, it also added to the perception in low-income neighborhoods among some people that they were like an occupied territory. i was welcomed by some people and i think was resented by others. no justice, no peace! while authorities in southern california are bringing order to the streets, spectators in akron, ohio, are lining up to catch a glimpse of notorious serial killer jeffrey dahmer arriving to stand trial for the first murder he committed. dahmer is already serving life terms in wisconsin for 15 murders. oh ohio prosecutors say dahmer killed his first victim in ohio where he was raised. part of what made him such a monster was his ordinariness. i think that s what scared people a lot about him is he looked like you and me, and that s pretty scary because his deeds were unspeakable. the trial begins nearly ten months after the nation was exposed to the grisly discovers at dahmer s apartment. what they discovered upon their arrival was almost unspeakable. numerous pieces from as many 15 human bodies, including three heads preserved in a refrigerator. it s been two and a half months since he was convicted of 15 murders in milwaukee. jeffrey dahmer, cannibalism, murders, lobotomies. now dahmer is facing judgment for the final outstanding murder charge in ohio. as gruesome as his crimes were, many showed up at the summit county courthouse as early as midnight last night to be one of the 35 spectators allowed to see the proceedings firsthand. it s just really interesting to me. it s not often somebody famous comes to akron. i just want to see what s going on and how it s handled and things like that. he had letters from women proposing marriage to him. he got mail like he was a rock star. i haven t seen anything like it. i haven t seen anything since that. while the trial unfolds in akron, it s been three days since exxon executive sidney reso was kidnapped and no one has heard from him. the media wanted answers and a lot of the time we just didn t have them. it s enormously frustrating. frankly, i remembered so many more details about the l.a. riots than i did about a story i was covering. so dramatic was the footage and here we had no footage. that night, investigators get a new lead. on may 1, around 9:30 at night, we had received a call that directed me to morris park. they said that a second letter could be found under a white rock near a fence. we did in fact find a letter. they wanted a plane. they wanted the money put in eddie bauer bags. and obviously, our concern was we wanted to make sure that sidney reso was alive. we had a lot of concerns about sidney reso s well-being. while the fbi s behavioral science unit pours over the letter this is an nbc news special report. president bush addressed the nation regarding the l.a. riots. i want to talk to you about violence in our cities and justice for our citizens. two big issues that have collided on the streets of los angeles. george h.w. bush went on television. i assumed at the time he was going to make a statement to try to restore order in los angeles. what we saw last night and the night before in los angeles is not about civil rights. it s not about the great cause of equality that all americans must uphold. it s not a message of protest. it s been the brutality of a mob, pure and simple. the speech that bush made seemed to make things worse. the violence will end. justice will be served. hope will return. the president s words echo in households across the country. what is your plea to the charge of aggravated murder as contained in count one of the indictment? guilty as charged, your honor. an attorney spoke for dahmer and his family. jeffrey dahmer is a human being. he is a tortured and sick human being. i just talked about redemption and mercy, and i wanted to say he was sorry for his conduct, and i don t believe he was. for the first time ever, dahmer faced martha and richard hicks, steven s parents. mrs. hicks called dahmer a monster and spoke of the horror her family endured. we saw pieces of our son on tv every night, some smaller than a toothpick. i have always believed in capital punishment. but since the state of ohio didn t have it in 1978, i will not be able to pull the switch on the electric chair, but i know i could do it to this animal. dahmer is given his 16th life sentence and returns to wisconsin to serve out his time. jeffrey dahmer s stay in akron may have been brief, but his effect on the city will last for sometime to come. as one spectator put it, it may be gruesome, but it s history. pamela dennis, 23 news day at the summit county courthouse. we got word rodney was going to make a statement. you know, can we all get along? the gunman has released 11, but he has shot at least nine people. parents rushed to find out if their child had been released. it is happening as we re going live here. and sprinkles on just the right amount of brown sugar streusel. so that you can spend more time making special moments. .with your family. marie callender s. it s time to savor. unlikeso babies can sleeppampers stasoundly all night.s drier, pampers. i invest with e trade, where investors can investigate and invest in vests. or not in vests. sign up at etrade.com and get up to six hundred dollars. a hazardous materials team breathing from air tanks confiscated a number of items from the suspect s apartment. among them police say photographs and drawings of dead, mutilated bodies. sidney reso disappeared yesterday, but this case is being handled under the assumption of foul play. at lindhurst high school at this hour the s.w.a.t. team is still in place. parents are waiting to get word. murder, kidnapping, hostages, major stories playing out in america while all eyes are on the riots raging in l.a. at least 27 people are now dead since it all began following the acquittal of four police officers in the rodney king beating trial. on friday, may 1, there were still a lot of hot spots, but the authorities were better organized. and my assignment was we got word that rodney was going to make a statement. an enormous assemblage of media gathered around this yard area around this podium, because we hadn t heard from him. i just want to say, you know, can we all get along? can we get along? initially, that wasn t what he was supposed to say. he was given a script to read. he felt it was necessary to just speak from his heart. please. we can get along here. we all can get along. we ve just got to you know, we re all stuck here for a while. you know, let s try to work it out. i have always been very proud of him. very much. that s something that s still brought up to this day. i think it made an impact. as king pleas for calm people are still reportedly being held hostage by an armed gunman in the library building at the lindhurst high school in olive hurst. officers arrive on scene and are briefed by a fellow sergeant. they pointed to this big building. they called it building c. there was one suspect perhaps armed with a shotgun, who was last seen entering that building. shots had been fired. didn t really have time to talk about what the plan of action was going to be. rilg p boeb pe when this door to building c burst open, a burg bunch of kids came running out. 25 students and at least one teacher seem to have escaped what is now a very dangerous situation there at lindhurst high school. first room i went in, there were two victims there. a teacher and a student. that would set the tone for what we have a person who has committed homicide. we know that eight people have been shot, including at least four students. medical professionals are calling this a phase 3 disaster. the highest level of medical alert. on the east coast, days turn into weeks as authorities hunt for missing exxon executive sidney reso. while his kidnappers remain at large. fbi agents are still investigating the ransom letter and the kidnappers possible affiliation with an environmental organization. that s when we learned about the kidnapping of victor samuelsson. 18 years earlier, exxon plant manager victor samuelsson had been kidnapped by marxist guerrillas. there s no word from argentina today on the whereabouts of an american oil company executive named victor samuelsson who has been kidnapped. after $14 million in ransom was paid, samuelsson was returned unharmed in april 1974, 18 years to the day sidney reso disappeared. we need to know if indeed there is a group that is holding mr. reso. but the fbi s behavioral science unit becomes suspicious of the group s international claims. there were no international calls. i think we had one call from new york and then one call late in the investigation from georgia. all of the phone calls that we were able to capture were all within maybe a five to ten mile radius. in fact, the kidnappers seemed to have intimate knowledge of morris county. investigators have a hunch the kidnappers are not the environmental crusaders they claim to be. they re locals. mrs. reso says she s concerned about her husband s health. he had a heart attack three years ago, but she says she has faith. he s courageous, he s honest, and he s good. so if anybody can survive any set of circumstances like that, he can do it. the suspect has been identified by the sheriff s department as eric houston. in olive hurst, california, the local community is facing a terrifying hostage situation. tom, are we any closer toward understanding what it is he wants? no, we still know nothing other than he came here with a grudge over treatment here when he was a student. i just remembering about the teacher that failed him, the teacher that broke up with him, that he had lost his job, so basically his entire life that s unraveling or falling apart so to speak all came back to the one teacher. school authorities and peace officers are trying to establish some sort of contact with the gunman. i don t know if they have been able to achieve that yet. at this time, we re trying to gather intelligence as to the exact location of which room he appears to be moving. come to find out he s directly overhead on top of us. he had placed lookouts on the stairwells. at that point, jim downs started communicating with the student on the stairs. i had probably anywhere from four to six cops with their pistols an on me. then i had eric with his shotgun pointing at me.on me. then i had eric with his shotgun pointing at me. so i had two different sets of people pointing their guns at me. they don t know what to expect in either of us. it was pretty intense. so it was crazy. it is a very tense situation here and we just keep waiting for more news and hopefully more people to come out of that building. to stabilize your foundation and relieve lower-back, knee or foot pain from being on your feet. find your nearest kiosk at drscholls.com. also available from dr. scholl s: heavy duty support for lower back pain, lightens the impact of every step. the national guard is now out in force in los angeles. while the cameras closely followed the l.a. unrest, elsewhere other crises intensified. sidney reso headed to work and disappeared. he s the president of exxon international. in california, a gunman is holding more than 30 hostages at a high school. 6,000 california national guard troops on the streets of los angeles. their weapons will be loaded and they have orders to return fire if fired upon. by 3:00 p.m. on may 1, marines begin amassing south of the city. unless you ve been in the service, you never get that sense of power of guys in uniform and heavy machinery that comes with the army showing up. the regular army troops and marines ordered up by president bush moved to staging areas. our main weapon is our physical presence, be a visual deterrent. it s the weirdest sight to see a tank kind of roll in up over a hill and kind of drop in and descend over los angeles with the cityscape in the background. that pretty much brought order. you don t argue too much with a tank. there was an interesting mood change in some areas of los angeles neighborhoods as firefighters arrived at yet another store that had been looted and set afire. there were no rocks and throwing bottles, but lots of helping hands. a lot of those people wanted to undo the damage, do anything they could to undo the damage and were extremely helpful to the fire department, the police department, would go on television and make statements and decry the violence and say, this isn t us. i want the people to stop this and really think about what you re doing. you re hting yourself more than you re hurting anybody. as anglinos fight for their city, a life or death battle is being waged in northern california. eric houston, he may be holding 35 to 40 students hostage. he has released 11, but he has shot at least nine people as we understand, including students and a teacher. i seen a student come out of spanish class down below and he actually was shot in the leg. and me and the other student down below was pretty much like, hey, you ve got a student bleeding out on the floor. eric said, yeah, yeah, get him to the doors and get him out of the building. i opened the door and the cops grabbed me and grabbed the other student and they took us out with them and they wouldn t let us go back in. parents rushed to find out if their child had been released. it was a scene of great fear and anxiety, but also occasional scenes of great joy and relief. i remember my mom. it was good to see her. the gunman says this could be a long night. of course, it could be a very long night for the parents waiting to hear if their child is inside. authorities said soon after sidney reso disappeared the fbi recovered a ransom letter demanding millions of dollars and a cellular phone number with further instructions. eventually sidney reso s kidnappers tried to set up a ransom drop. they wanted the money put in eddie bauer bags, divided into certain currencies. this was their game plan. the fbi sets up a massive sting operation and intentionally leaves the media in the dark. we were being spoon-fed a false narrative in order to help the authorities lure the kidnappers into a false sense of security and make a mistake. and then they did make a mistake. june 18th, the night of the scheduled ransom drop. the fbi plants over 250 agents in the morris county vicinity. we had all these agents out and i was wired so the command post could hear the exact conversation. and one of the female agents who were sitting in a car, saw the guy. he had glasses and a fisherman s hat on, and she saw this individual on the phone. the agent observes the man hanging up the phone at the same time the recorded call is terminated. the fbi traces the man s license plate to a local rental company. not long after agents show up to investigate, the agents arrive at his car. the executives and all kinds of pertinent information relative to sidney reso. two people including a former exxon employee were arrested and charged with kidnapping. reso s fate, however, remains a mystery. well, the situation is still very tense as you might imagine at lindhurst high school at this hour. the s.w.a.t. team is still in place. parents are waiting to get word on their loved ones inside. houston has reportedly told negotiators that he s afraid the s.w.a.t. team will break in and kill him. he seemed real insistent that he didn t want to see any cops in black clothing because to him that meant s.w.a.t. team. he didn t want to hear a helicopter. because the media was flying overhead. some comments were made and he did get a little bit agitated. we heard a radio broadcast that he heard and it listed numbers of people injured, shot, which enraged him. so we made a request of the news media to please don t do those reports again because it s making it difficult for us to keep a peace situation in negotiations. they have asked us not to continue with any more coverage of the story. we can only make an appeal to the gunman. please, put it down. stop. there s been enough already. the negotiation process begins with houston asking for food about 6:00 p.m. he wanted pizza, so we asked him to give us a count. we took a count. when the count came back, it was 84 hostages, which is astounding. it was it was wow. captain dennis moore telling reporters they have been delivered their pizzas and their food that they requested. the activity has been rather light. the conversations have been minimal on the telephone. he sent down a couple of students, two or three, and said, go down and get the pizza. if you don t come back, i m killing your friends. do you let the kids go back up or do you keep them safe? we ultimately decided to let them back up. 33 years in law enforcement. that s the toughest decision i ve ever been involved in. tracy, sheriff s deputies do have contact with the man by telephone, right? at first he was very agitated and very upset. gunman eric houston releases 15 hostages as an act of goodwill. the students we have seen walking out of here were very badly shaken. many were weeping. they looked stunned. they looked dazed. i just remember seeing my family and just being so relieved to be able to just hug my mom. when they called the kids names as they were being released from the school, we would go over and see if our kids were there. in my heart, i knew something was wrong, but i just kept staying and waiting. woman: busted! 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reforms that began in the los angeles police department, and i think that was a good thing. los angeles begins the long road to normalcy. it would take weeks for investigators to find sidney reso. the fbi s biggest kidnapping investigation in years has become a murder case. despite the successful capture of the kidnappers, it was too late to save the victim. reso s body was found in a shallow grave here in this heavily wooded area near the new jersey shore. law enforcement officers were taken there by irene seal along with her husband arthur is accused of kidnapping reso and attempting to extort money from exxon. they were bunglers. it was bungled from the beginning. just wanted to get rich quick. and they were stupid enough to think that a kidnapping at gunpoint is going to be easy. during the abduction, reso attempted to break free and was shot in the arm. he was bound, gagged, and placed in a wooden box. the seals testified it was not their intention to kill reso, but three days after the abduction he died from heat and exhaustion. irene seal provided information to the authorities and pled guilty to extortion and conspiracy. she was released in 2009. arthur seal pleaded guilty to kidnapping and murder and is serving life without parole. ongoing telephone conversations between the hostage taker identified as eric houston and negotiators. they say he appears to be getting calmer and quieter. eight hours into the siege in california, eric houston is negotiating with the police. i think we did start to feel a little bit hopeful seeing him be more willing to let people go. you could see that he was a little bit more mellowed, a little bit more calm. there was a lot of conversation between eric houston and the negotiating team about you ve got to be the last person to come down. you re not going to come down, you know, surrounded by hostages. just moments ago, those students, some very shaken and very emotional, were loaded onto buses and taken to be debriefed and counseled. the final group of students is released. i remember seeing my mother and my sister-in-law and just kind of bearing myself. sorry. they were releasing the last bunch of kids and announcing them over the intercom and they stopped. me and my husband just kind of turned and looked at each other and put our arms around each other. when i got home, i had a yard full of kids. and we stood out in the yard for another couple of hours, holding hands and singing and just being together because they all knew too. three students and teacher robert brenz died in the siege that day. eric houston received the death penalty and awaits execution at san quinton prison. in 1992, there was no playbook for this. what we now call active shooters, which unfortunately is common language in law enforcement, that wasn t part of our vocabulary in 1992. so it s not something we had trained for. the lindhurst shooting wasn t the first of its kind or the last. the teenagers killed 12 students and a teacher at a littleton, colorado school, before committing suicide. 30 people have been killed in this rampage at virginia tech university. just minutes after the shootings at sandy hook elementary school, radio transmissions reveal the scale of the tragedy already unfolding. today a school shooting happens almost every week in the united states. in 1993, officers stacy koon and lawrence powell were convicted in federal court for their role in the rodney king beating. at least he was able to be a symbol of change and a symbol of hope for people. he was our hero, my sister s and myself. the city realized it had to make stronger connections, and the police department had to make stronger connections with the community. the fact when one of these incidents occurs there s a pretty good chance somebody is going to be taking some video of it and it will go viral, that is obviously making the question of police brutality a different one if people have the ability to do something about it. all of los angeles is under curfew tonight as violence continues in the streets. the murder and destruction in the streets of los angeles must be stopped. when some big thing happens, everything else gets shoved off the radar where it normally would be maybe the lead story. for us in akron, dahmer was the headline for the day and he was killed. dahmer was killed in prison. it happens all the time. there are lots of other really big deal stories that are occurring that are getting no attention at all. the hostage situation is over. eric houston has been arrested.
in heiglight of the fact that everything you just said donald trump said wasn t going to happen. it is the most under-reported story related to the campaign but not directly in the campaign. each day we see something new that was kind of unimaginable weeks ago. he says the u.s. military is a disaster, that operation is a disaster, he half believes that mosul is part of syria. thank you, rachel. today, the wife of the biggest cyber bully in the world said that if you make her first lady of the united states, she will work hard to stop cyber bullying. annemarie cox will join us with her reaction to melania trump s speech today. but first, we have a new electoral college projection. and that projection indicates that the next president of the united states will not have a first lady. this isn t a joke. this isn t survivor. this isn t the bachelorette. this counts. say whoa. if donald trump were to win this election, we would have a commander in chief who is completely out of his depth. ah, this and that, oh, give me a break. donald trump is temperamentally unfit. best thing i have is my temperament. now he knows we can see and hear him, right? i think the gig is up. we have to find a better way to talk to each other. to respect each other. these people are stupid. they re stupid people. come on, man! i promise you, i will never enter a bicycle race. stay on point, donald, stay on point. we need to teach our youth american values. kindness. honesty, respect. stupid people, remember that. sometimes the tentation is to tune it out, and you want to just focus on the cubs winning the world series. [cheers and applause] and who knows, maybe we ll see even more history made in a few days. this is the last word on campaign 2016. with just four campaign days left now before the presidential election, american voters have probably already decided who the next president of the united states will be. most of the models repeatedly used to predict the winner are predicting a win for hillary clinton. on this program, we presented the moody s analytics model this week that uses economic factors as well as political factors to predict a winner. that shows hillary clinton winning 332 electoral votes to donald trump s 206 electoral votes. larry sabato, the director of the university of virginia center for politics is now ready with his numbers. joining us now, larry sabato. this is not your final projection, because, there s a couple is states you re still thinking about, but give us your count as of tonight. yes, lawrence, we ll update on monday, but right now we think that clinton has 293 electoral votes. she will, we believe, win nevada, despite some of the late polling that has her behind there. we think she s ahead in north carolina. and as long as democrats can manage to get out more the african-american vote, and they re working hard on that, she will win north carolina. our big toss-up, in fact the only toss-up state is florida. you could argue new hampshire is a toss-up state. there are only four electoral votes there and 29 in florida. florida has flummoxed us so far. but 293 is a respectable total. if she wins florida, she ll go clinton among latinos, latino decisions have excellent new data on this showing that clinton is getting a larger percentage of latinos than brau barack obama did. he got 21%. she s getting 79%, donald trump is in the teens. gee, i wonder why. that is a big, big gain for hillary clinton. the electorate s never static, and different pieces move in different directions every four years, but over all, i think people who are saying hillary clinton is collapsing and the blue wall is falling, you know, it s chicken little all over again. and quickly, larry on the senate, if hillary clinton, if your projection s right, hillary clinton s going to be the next president. is she going to be able to get a supreme court nominee through the next united states senate? well, she needs, she needs 50 democratic senators plus tim donald trump s temperament. i m also honored to have the greatest temperament that anybody has, because we know how to win. she spends $1 billion. she spends so much money, i see these ads. people that know me, say how can they say that? you know, we have a temperament, we have a certain temperament. it s a temperament of knowing how to win. donald stood on a stage and said, and i quote, i m honored to have the greatest temperament that anyone s ever had. now he, he knows we can see and hear him, right? this is someone who at another rally yesterday actually said out loud to himself, stay on point, donald. stay on point. his campaign probably put that in the teleprompter. stay on point, donald, stay on point. and joining the discussion now, elysse jordan. former adviser to rand paul s presidential campaign. and also with us, steve mcmahon, a democratic strategist and the ceo and co-founder of purple strategies. elysse, it still seems for the clinton campaign, the best material for hillary clinton every day is whatever donald trump just said. that s why this week has been damaging to her. so much attention has been focussed on the fbi and the e-mail server. if she can get back to pointing out to what ridiculous things donald trump is saying, his message the entire campaign, she s in much firmer, better territory. steve mcmahon, you ve been, i was going to say you ve been in campaigns like this. i take it back. no one s ever been in a campaign like this. but you ve certainly been there where there s four campaign days left. obviously hillary clinton likes keeping the focus on what donald funny to basically not pay somebody who s done work for him and say go ahead and sue me, because i ve got more money than you and you can t do anything about it. larry sabato, is that approach based on voter analysis, that that is what is working with voters? talking about donald trump s temperament and character? oh, absolutely. this has come through for months, even before the conventions. and it s just as true today as it was then. the two big factors, they don t think he has the temperament to sit in the oval office and make critical decisions, and they don t think he s qualified in terms of experience and background, to deal with complex public policy issues. the more those two things can be stressed, the better for democrats, and president obama had a marvelous term there. uniquely unqualified. and, again, i think most people would agree with that, just based on the facts. all right, let s look at the latest clinton campaign ad that goes straight at this. i d wbr id= wbr7279 /> look her right in that fat, ugly face of hers. he s a war hero because he was captured. i like people who weren t captur captured, okay? you got to look at this guy, oh, i don t remember. i would bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. i love war in a certain way. elysse, i think about people like you and steve wishing you could be in the room working on ads against donald trump, because they just serve up the, donald trump serves up that material. it is a gift that keeps giving when it comes to ads. but back to this temperament issue that we re talking about and how clinton and president obama are trying to stress this on the campaign trail this week, /b> out of all the focus groups that i ve sat in during this campaign season, temperament was the absolute, number one issue that undecided voters mentioned wbr-id= wbr7899 /> when it came to pulling the trigger for donald trump. they re simply worried not only what he would do domestically been internationally, it s okay if he s a wrecking ball domestically, but internationally, they are really concerned. so this is definitely her closing argument. so steve mcmahon, never mind the supreme court in the last four days of the campaign, would you suggest they ignore issues, just go straight at donald trump the character? absolutely. she s got a 40 or 45-point edge on this trait which voters think is very important to a president, and i ve sat in focus groups too and saw the same thing. voters are very worried about donald trump. they sort of like that he wants to change washington, they would like a change and broken glass there, but they don t want that in the middle east or places where it s dangerous and scary. they want a balanced, experienced leader who s not going to get us into a war. steve mcmahon, elysse jordan, larry sabato, thank you for joining us. thank you. coming up, melania trump s speech today was accompanied by the most inappropriate music ever used by the trump campaign or any campaign in the history of campaigns. in the history of music. annemarie cox will give us her take on that speech. and former speechwriter for president george w. bush david from will join us to explain why he voted today for hillary clinton for president. one of millions of orders on this company s servers. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. but with cyber threats on the rise, today, the microphone, i should say, but it was not for that press conference that donald trump promised since weeks ago in which melania trump would produce all her immigration records and prove to us her legality. instead, it was a speech accompanied by the most inappropriate music in the history of the campaign. annemarie cox will join us next and we ll bring you some of that speech. well this here s a load-bearing wall. we ll go ahead and rip that out. that ll cause a lot of problems. hmm. totally unnecessary and it triples the budget. we ll be totally behind schedule, right? (laughschedules. schedules. great, okay. wouldn t it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi® double cash card does. it lets you earn double cash back: 1% when you buy, and 1% as you pay. the citi double cash card. double means double. age of aquarius aquarius aquarius sympathy and trust abounding okay, that was weird. that is the most inappropriate piece of introductory music ever used at a campaign event. the last line of the lyric you just heard, sympathy and trust abounding . and then, for some inexplicable reason, the lyrics stop, the music continues, but the lyrics aren t there. they just stop. and the very next line, the lyrics that just don t happen, the next line is no more falsehoods or derisions. now it just can t be possible that the trump campaign, the campaign of falsehoods and derisions, was self-aware enough to realize that they just couldn t play that lyric today. it couldn t be that, because if the trump campaign was so self-aware, then they would never have chosen a hit song from the 1968 broadway musical hair. it was the first nude musical. for the most part, they were dressed in the hippy costuming of the day. it was a story of dropping out, and dropping acid and free love and celebration of the hippy lifestyle. aimed at donald trump s age, graduated a month after hair opened on fraud way, but it definitely wa lly wasn t donalds kind of show. it was about, as the lyrics said, harmony and understanding, sympathy and trust abounding. no more falsehoods or derisions. golden living dreams of visions mystic crystal revelation and the mind s true liberation. the music and the cultural world of people graduating from college in 1968 in donald trump s year, that year was deaf identified between the hippies singing about love and understanding and the mind s true revelation and elvis, unrepentant, 1950s rock and roll. so melania trump made her entrance to a song that stands against everything the trump campaign stands for. no more falsehoods or derisions. and oddly, melania trump s speech was about falsehoods and derisions. making her the first trump ever to take a stand against falsehoods and derisions. as we know, now social media is a centerpiece of our lives. it can be a useful tool for connection and communication. it can ease isolation that so many people feel in the modern world. technology has changed our universe. but, like anything that is powerful, it can have a bad side. we have seen this already. as adults, many of us are able to handle mean words, even lies. children and teenagers can be fragile. they are hurt when they are made fun of or made to feel less in looks or intelligence. this makes their life hard and can force them to hide and retreat. our culture has gotten too mean and too rough. especially to children and teenagers. made to feel less in looks and intelligence. so, the wife of the world s biggest, wildest, most out of control cyber bully, wants to assume the position of first lady so she can stop cyber bullying. no. this is not a self-aware campaign. four years ago, melania trump s husband tweeted this. cher, i don t wear a rug, it s mine, and i promise not to talk about your massive plastic surgeries that didn t work. melania trump s husband also tweeted this, ariana huffington is unattractive both yinside an out. i understand why her husband left her for a man. and he made a comment on the fact that women were serving in the military. 26,000 unreported sexual assaults in the military, on only 238 convictions. what did these geniuses expect? how much money is the extremely unattractive both inside and out, ariana huffington paying her ex-husband for the use of his name. if hillary clinton can t satisfy her husband, what makes her think she can satisfy america. donald trump has tweeted that megyn kelly is a bimbo, attacked bette midler s attractiveness on twitter and said utterly poisonous things about rosie o donnell, time and time again here, and i was the person donald trump threatened to sue on twitter, he s attacked this show, saying it s unwatchable and first predicted the cancellation of this show five years ago, it was going to happen at any moment back then. also on twitter, donald trump has called me a poor journalist, stupid, a very dumb guy, the dumbest political commentator on television and the dumbest man on tv. today donald trump tweeted about watching his wife s speech, but he didn t say anything, anything about her condemnation of cyber bullying. joining us now, annemarie cox, senior political news correspondent for mtv news. i was looking at the trump hits on me, i have to confess, all of which made me laugh. and i thought he never goes after guys looks. he only does the looks thing with women. and then i found this one. lawrence, this is from several years ago. lawrence will soon be off tv, bad ratings, he has a face made for radio. so he has gone after, at least one guy, on looks. yeah, he s mocked krischri c too. he does save his real venom for women. that is true. and, you know, so i was working under a theory for a while that melania was an silon, because she has that weird thing where her eyes go back and forth, and she looks somewhat alien. but an android s circuits would fry, only a truly delusional human being could give a speech like she gave and survive it. a computer couldn t handle it. you ve shown a hlot of the iron. but to go a step further beyond trump himself doing the bullying, what about attacking people of the jewish faith who have covered him and they ve sent people into hiding and remember the journalist that wrote a profile of melania and was deluged with anti-semitic remark, and the campaign and melania herself refused to say anything about it. it s one of those speeches where it makes you wonder, do these people ever talk to each other. it was all that portion of it was well-written. those were all good ideas, very well-considered stuff. but donald trump is just the most glaring, you know, violator of everything melania trump talked about today. right, you know, i always thought it was a little bit a shade that laura bush chose literacy as her cause when bush was president. i thought that was pretty clever. but this is at another level. if this is self-aware subtweeting, it s like sticking the knife in. i don t, you know, it s hard to critique, you know, the families, right? i think everyone wants to not go to hard on the families of candidates. you know, a lot of us say things like this person didn t sign up for th. but i ve been thinking. we don t know what melania signed up for. trump has said there s a prenuptial agreement. i imagine it s pretty long. she literally signed up for this. she definitely did literally sign something. i think when the families are trying to elect the most dangerous candidate in the history of the country, we ve got a whole set of what s relevant and what isn t. and when she s trying to make the argument that somehow the donald that she knows is different than the one we know, we ve seen no evidence of that. this is a case where we actually have evidence of what he s like when he doesn t think the cameras are on, right? and it s pretty consistent, actually. like that s the thing that s sort of amazing, right? there s no hidden depths to hem. there s no other side of donald trump. hi like he s exactly the jerk you think he is. and what matters is who a president is going to be publicly. this is who he is publicly. and the temperament argument that all the hillary surrogates is making is a powerful one. we d like to live in a country where we re having our des agreements about policy, but in the end, it really is about temperament when we elect a president, because there s not going to be, we can t predict every policy problem that comes forward. we can t predict everything that will happen in the world. at some point, it will be the president at his or her desk making the decision about millions of lives of people. we have to have faith that that decision is going to be made, not in anger, not off the handle and not off of personal pique. thank you, ana marie. thank you. up next, david from has announced that he is voting for hillary clinton for president. the former speechwriter for george w. bush will join us with his reasons. is is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me go further. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira has been clinically studied for over 18 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you ve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you ve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don t start humira if you have an infection. ready for a new chapter? talk to your rheumatologist. this is humira at work. smart. you already knew that. but it s also great for finding the perfect used car. you ll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you re even smarter. this is truecar. listen to me. i am captain of the track team, and if i m late. she doesn t really think she s going to get out of here, does she? be nice. she s new. hello! is anyone there? rrr! wow. even from our standards, you look awful. oh, sweetie, what happened? girl: me? my friend becky got to talk to this super-cute boy, and i tried to act like i wasn t jealous, but i so totally was, and then, out of nowhere, this concrete barrier just popped up. maybe it was a semi. you mean you were driving? yeah. i mean, i know the whole eyes on the road thing. but this was a super important text. maybe you have to know becky. texting? great. but it was only, like, 5 seconds, and i m a really, really fast texter, so it wasn t even a big deal. actually, has she texted me back yet? [squishing sound] wow, i get, like, no bars in this place. i wonder if they have wi-fi here. but.my doctor recommended prilosec otc 7 years ago, 5 years ago, last week. just 1 pill each morning. 24 hours and zero heartburn, it s been the number 1 doctor recommended brand for 10 straight years, and it s still recommended today. use as directed when republican governor and former candidate john kasich voted in the battle ground state of ohio, he ducked the real choice of hillary clinton versus donald trump for president. governor kasich could not bring himself to vote for donald trump, and he couldn t bring himself to vote for hillary clinton, so he wrote in a vote for john mccain. david from accepted the real choice and announced today that he voted for hillary clinton. he wrote in an oped for the flaentsic, i have no illusions about hillary clinton. she is a patriot and will uphold the sovereignty of the united states. why didn t you write in john mccain? and what do you say to republicans who are thinking about writing in john mccain or something else? well, i wrote, the article i wrote for the atlantic immediately before made the best case i could from a conservative point of view for donald trump, hillary clinton and a protest candidate. i feel like you have to face your choices. the absentee ballot which i septembe sent, stayed in my box about four days. when did you send it? about a week ago. but i would say, i m not one who is greatly swayed by endorsements, but vladimir putin s, that cut a lot of weight with me. that would be the thing in the end that weighed the heaviest on you, which one does vladimir putin really want? the first is, i do think we are seeing an attempt to manipulate an american election by an unfriendly foreign power, and it s really important that that unfriendly power get the strongest signal that this isn t acceptable. in the second thing, i do think hillary clinton, i mean, clintons, i ve got a lot of critiques of the clinton foundation. i do think they bend the law. but hillary clinton accepts the concept of legality, she accepts that courts are asupreme and hls should be followed. and those pay sibasic rules. the system that we have is one that protects my rights under a president i don t approve of and tomorrow will do the same for you. and what people have in common is their commitment to those shared rules. and if you have a challenger to show shar those shearared rules, that s unacceptable. are you having conversations with a number of your republican friends who are having the same problem that you are? there are a lot of shy clinton voters. i know marriages where they re both republicans, but women find this an easier step than the men do. i know a lot of republicans making a protest vote, and i don t complain about that. there are people who say my vote an expression and people who say my vote an instrument. i believe it is an instrument, not an expression. thank you very much. coming up, trump campaign is worried about getting out to vote, but are they telling the truth about that? that s in tonight s war room wi with mike murphy. [ piercing sound ] good luck! so, it turns out buzzed driving and drunk driving, they re the same thing and it costs around $10,000. so not worth it. did you get your e-mail from donald trump begging for money? he s sending out e-mails to finance his get out to vote operation. but donald trump doesn t have a get out to vote operation. what s up with that? that s coming up. but first, here s how it looked today on the campaign trail. one way or another come this january, america is going to have a new president. if hers is a track record, if hers is experience, i want no experience. look what that experience has got us. please remember, that before he was a presidential candidate, he was a leader of the so-called birther movement. if he doesn t respect all americans, how can we trust him to serve all americans? we re all aware that hillary clinton has a problem with the truth. even among politicians, and that does not make her unique in the swamp that is washington. but hillary stands out. she s a very dishonest person, probably the most dishonest person ever to run for the office of president. anybody who is upset about a saturday night live skit you don t want in crge of nuclear weapons. make america great again is not just some slogan. it is what has been in his heart since the day i met him. he has spent this entire campaign offering a dog whistle to his most hateful supporters. who you are, what you are, does not change after you occupy the oval office. all it does is magnify who you are. all it does is 1450i7b a spot height on who you are. and runn, anywhere in the planet. wherever there s a phone, you ve got a bank, and we could never do that before. the cloud gave us a single platform to reach across our entire organization. it helps us communicate better. we use the microsoft cloud s advanced analytics tools to track down cybercriminals. this cloud helps transform business. this is the microsoft cloud. take the zantac it challenge! pill works fast? zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. when heartburn strikes, take zantac for faster relief than nexium or your money back. take the zantac it challenge. septembersent an e-mail to supporters this week asking them for money pause, we are currently executing a highly costly early voting push and get out to vote operation to ensure identified trump voters make it to the polls before election day. and this picture was tweeted with this caption, expensive early vote and get out to vote operation. that clearly doesn t exist. what grifters, con man. with four days left for the presidential war rooms, joining us tonight is mike murphy, republican campaign strategist and the host of the pod cast, radio free gop. so i have friends getting these trump e-mails, begging for money. this one you say is more fraud length thfraudu lent than most, because there isn t even a get out to vote push? i m the sheriff of corrupt town. but this one was particularly egregious. you can argue, there s a fig leaf. it s the joint fund raising committee between the rnc, and they do do generic things, but the e-mail implies, the technique they use is from kellyanne conway, and the idea they need money for this big tv system, which the campaign doesn t have. the rnc has some of it, that s why they d argue there was a whip of truth. it was misleading. make a trump appeal. that s fine, but let s not pretend there s somet that doesn t exis it still cracks me up that the guy is asking for money. why ask for money? why not pump all that trump money that was supposed to come in. that s a promise we heard for a long time. and he s put some money in, but not nearly what he said he would, but that s no surprise with trump. he will end up spending less than mike bloomberg did to get elected mayor of new york city. here s the count on field offices. hillary clinton has more field offices in 41 states, chug in every battleground state than donald trump has. here are the states where donald trump has more field offices han hillary clinton. arizona, south dakota, arkansas and mississippi. and arizona s the only one of those that s even in play. yeah, there s no trump field operation by real campaign standards. there s generic stuff the rnc is doing to help congressional races. but trump is doing none of the enhanced things that a normal presidential campaign would do. they re doing much of anything that a normal presidential campaign would do. there s no real serious policy staff. the list goes on and on. trump is like the ice kcapades. it is this concert tour, and we ll see how that pays off on election day. i think with all the noise about how it s too close to call and all that, i m making bets, i think trump s going down. walk us through your bet. on election night, which chips do you expect to see falling on the east coast? do you think in the early closings we ll see florida go for hillary clinton? i actually believe hillary is going to carry florida. i could be wrong, but even if trump wins ohio where he s a little stronger than florida and loses florida, let s give him both. and even if he were to win north carolina which has more republican proclivitieproclivit still has to make it up other places i don t think he can. i don t think he s going to poll the inside strait. and i think hillary clinton s going to win nevada. i know florida pretty well, and i won t have to see a lot of returns to make a pretty informed guesstimate on that state. i think some of that election night drama will be less than people are expecting right now. what do you make of the survey that s come out of the early voting in florida that shows a very large crossover of republicans, 28% of republicans in the early vote going to hillary clinton? my guess is that number s a little high, but i think the point it makes is true. the parties always do this. more republicans bas on party registration have voted early than democrats, but the margin s less, you know, there s all these comparative stats, but i think trump is going to underperform with republicans. normally you get 95% when you win. i think trump s republican number will be in the 80 s somewhere. so one of his many problems is, not all these republican votes by registration are actually trump votes. i don t know if it will be 28 to hillary, but i wouldn t be surprised if it s in the high teens, which is twice what it should be in a winning republican model. mike murphy, it s great to get your last word on this campaign as we approach tuesday, really appreciate. thanks, mike. thanks, lawrence. coming up next, the lawyer who fought the voter i.d. law in north carolina. indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea! here s pepto bismol! ah. nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea! why don t you let me. and me. help you out? 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[gasps] this is awesome. oh anne: you haven t seen anything yet. announcer: give your cardboard box another life. like bundling home and auto coverage, which reduces redney. tape, which saves money. when they save, you save. that s home and auto insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. that airline credit card yout? have. it could be better. it s time to shake things up. with the capital one venture card, you get double miles on everything you buy, not just airline purchases. seriously, think of all the things you buy. great.is this why you asked me to coffee? well yeah. but also to catch-up. what s in your wallet? they say some 6,700 people have been purged. a federal judge reinstated those purged voters rights, calling the way that they were removed, quote, insane. that was the judge s word. insane. and the judge said it was out of the jim crow era. while democratic turnout for early voting is outpacing republican turnout in north carolina so far, black voter turnout is down 16% from 2012 and some activists say that that is due to that kind of voter suppression. the justice department plans to monitor voting in four counties in north carolina next tuesday. joining us now, penda haire. can you tell me what the judgment found to be insane? i ve heard a lot of judges speaking and writing from the bench. that s a word you don t hear very often. let me say first, lawrence, that the judge has not yet issued her final decision, but she did make some comments from the bench. what she found to be insane was that private people mailed pieces of mail to voters in the county, and then they took returned mail to the county and asked the county board of elections to purge those voters from the roles. and the counties actually did so on the behest of these private vigilantes. and more than 400 voters were purged in one county, and over 60 in another county, and in the larger county, it was thousands of voters who were purged. and a lot of this was done right up until election day. . there s another hearing to purge more voters on monday in one of these counties. current polling shows hillary clinton leading donald trump 47-44 in north carolina. let s listen to the way president obama described this situation. grace bell lived in belhaven north carolina her entire life. all 100 years of her life. just a few weeks ago republicans challenged her voter registration status. and tried to remove her from the voter rolls. now grace got her voter regge administration reinstated. and you better believe she s going to vote. but this 100-year old woman wasn t alone in being targeted. the list was two-thirds black and democratic. that didn t happen by accident. and is that a pretty fair description of what s going on? yes. mrs. grace bell harditsson plai brought. she s voted 23 elections in a role and was at risk of being purged. she got the challenge withdrawn after the north carolina naacp learned about her sorry and made it public. and many, many others in her county are not so lucky and are still subject to having their vote taken away unless the federal judge rules, which we believe will happen fairly quickly. if someone has trouble voting in north carolina, what should they do? well, they should insist on voting. and if the election officials will not give them a regular ballot, they should ask for a provisional ballot and make sure they are given the provisional ballot. and then after the election, the