have you ever asked him why he did this? -oh, he doesn t know. -he doesn t know? he has no idea? i mean, there s no introspection, no psychoanalysis about, i did this because i wanted to ? -he doesn t wanna know. -yeah. yeah, there are people i m not gonna think about why i did this or why i didn t do this. you know, they re not introspective. i m not saying that that makes them better or worse. it s just, he doesn t wanna know any of that stuff. and the truth is that that s what the people loved about eliot spitzer. no second-guessing, no debate, on a crusade, charging ahead to systemic change, steamrolling enemies, cutting red tape in his path. his accomplishments were were tangible and exceedingly rare, which makes it hard not to mourn what we may have lost with the downfall of the sheriff of wall street. but it was his zealous belief in his own righteousness that made eliot spitzer s self-destruction inevitable, and that might be why this story s so chilling. former president trump was a steamroller in the white house, and it landed an insurrection on the steps of the capitol. if we can t shake our addiction to strongmen, to those utterly convinced of their own greatness, there will be many more like spitzer in positions of power posing even bigger threats to our fragile democracy crusaders wanting their portraits on the walls of history. every governor of new york has the chance to be immortalized in a painting that hangs in the new york state capitol, a self-directed monument to his or her own illustrious legacy. all of them are there all but two. the first served in the early 19th century and left no likenesses behind. the second.is eliot spitzer. there was testimony from a haley bind biden. she s her name is haley biden because she was married to hunter biden s brother sadly died. beau biden and then and then hunter went out with her. so she s the ex ex-girlfriend and the widow and i know she just she testified that when she was with hunter, he got her into crack and she is ashamed and embarrassed about that part of her life really, you you bang your dead husband s brother. and the part you re embarrassed about is the crack she said she found hunter s gun at one point, she knew she couldn t have it, so she took it and you throw it away, like in the supermarket dumpster. perfect play so when hunter found out, you throw away his gun, he was very angry, called are insane. he called are stupid. he said, what do you want? crack. and if you are, may i have sat die? we all saw the stuff from hunter biden s laptop, right? i mean, why they did a reality show about hunter biden be called naked and afraid of running out of crack and it s just and it s just bad optics for the president. the jury is looking at sex tapes of hunter biden and the rest of his are worrying of his father couldn t walk or wreck well actually, job was doing the de d-day thing. you saw that yesterday did very well. i thought he did very well. he was over there commemorating the an anniversary of d-day. and over here in america, you know what they did? nine congressman. oh, gosh nine congressmen dressed up as military people world war two vintage stuff and jumped out of a world war ii vintage plane to commemorate d-day okay sadly, they were wearing parachutes george santos said, you know, when i do dress up, you make a whole thing out. it wow, yes, it s it s pride month in the spirit. in the spirit of fraught pride month story five drag queens in philadelphia. did a reading children s books, reading as they do, made the guinness book of world records for the fastest way to get trump re-elected not not that there aren t still big, it s in this country to just see this, the head of the colorado, this the head of the colorado republican parties sent out an email missives saying calling gay people godless groomer which in california is not even an insult. i kept my hair cut at a place called dogmas the first job no holds barred democratic senator from the great state of pennsylvania, john fetterman welcome welcome back to this thursday non are to be here. i m i m i m a fan boy. so it s the right track. got gi have been badgering my staff for a long time now to get you on this show and i ll tell you why i ve been bad during them, i guess then they badgered you lead i m glad it worked in new here because i when i see you, especially the last couple of years you speak so freely, you speak like politician two, i get on this show, who aren t in politics anymore, the ones who are out of office when they can be honest. and that s the way you speak now and it s a beautiful thing this is true you speak for a lot of democrats that are afraid to say a lot of that stuff. yeah. i mean, it s a letter released for a lot of democrats to be able to be like, thank god, someone s actually platforming that like that. no, i think we re very much on the same page, but it s very rare. i mean, i don t have to worry about being reelected except by the but in i think even more brave for you to do it. the question i want, i m interested in asking you is, is this connected to some of your health issues? i mean, when you ve gone through it, you have both physical and mental health issues? yeah. does it give you a freedom, like, what can you know absolutely. there s like a line from the first batman, joker, he s like, now i ve already been dead once already. it s overrating. and that s that s not reckless. that s just that s really just freeing. it s his freeing in a way. and i just think after being all of that, i just really be able to say the things that i have to really believe in and not be afraid of if there s any kind of blowback what about. mental health in america writ large? what do we, what is the prescription for this? because we re going to talk about it on the show degree tonight. it s certainly a big issue in this country and we have, i think 50,000 suicides in the last excellently, this is an astounding number. i think what what are your thoughts on this? no, it s well i actually i thought after i signed myself into walter reed to get help with depression, it s not it s not really a big political winner to talk about oppression, right then when i started to have the conversation, i realized that if i had to be really honest, i have to talk about self-harm harming myself because, you pointed at the 50,000 americans took their lives and i started to talk about that and saying, yeah, i ve been in that kind of a place and i now tell people like i m promise you, begin, you please just don t don t harm yourself. stay in the game. and now i m in contacted by people on the regular saying, hey, thanks to hearing this, i got help or even saved my life and i never thought that that would resonate and that s why i decided to have that conversation because i was lucky. i got help and got better. and now i want to be the kind of guy that can say something thing that could have helped someone like me that it was in that situation let s talk a little politics here, because that is your game. pennsylvania is going to be one of they say probably it could be come down to three states. pennsylvania will definitely be one. well, i ve always said that pennsylvania picks the president and there really is no legitimate path. the president, if he doesn t win. and i really do believe he will win actually, because trump was able to flip pennsylvania and that helped deliver his first victory. but joe biden carried in 2020 because you have, he has a really strong connection. there to pennsylvania and i do believe he will again, but it s gonna be very close. and that s the same conversation i ve been having with pennsylvania that it s going to be very close because trump has a strong connection and pennsylvania and it s going to be very competitive. and all of that, and i ve also been saying that i don t think that whole trial is going to be anything meaningful with people have already decided like, hey, that s my guy. i will never understand by somebody would say, yeah, i love that. i went more four years of that. but i do believe joe biden s going to carry pennsylvania and he s going to win as he is not yet officially the nominee of the democratic party. is he really the best one for them to put forward? joe biden? yeah. yeah yeah. he s actually the only american that s ever beat trump in an election and i do honestly believe that he s actually the only democrat that could win. and let me just say this. let me just say this another that might be provocative but the last time there was like a hot governor that with $200 million. thought that he was going to be trump. and then trump threw him into width shipper and he finished third and his own state and florida. and again, it to santa yeah. yeah, it s like trump is pretty tough and that s what the republicans want and i can t imagine why he still appealing right now, but trump has a very, and i do believe joe biden has that ability to win and we have a great, we have a great bench. but i think it s a very distinct kind of situation right now. i m surprised at that, but i ll move on i m not on the same page there, but okay. i mean, it s probably going to be joe biden and i ll vote for him. but you mentioned desantis this was very curious to meet desantis wants to ban fake meat in florida you agreed with them? i don t i don t get this willy. i think it s no so much about making it illegal, but it s also just talking about i really wanted to stand with i wanted to stand with american farmers and ranchers and those kinds of a thing. and i don t believe that it s helpful and that s the direction that i d like to move in that. but if somebody wants to consume that, that that s okay. but i think there s gonna be states that are going to decide. i don t want to ban this, or i really want to invent and create that kinds of a product in their state. i think i wouldn t need it either. quite frankly, but i wouldn t ban it. i mean, that s what desantis ones to do. so you can t get it. if i thought that was the freedom party, i felt the freedom country. if people want to have fake meat or fake anything, fake, fake anything los angeles that s sloppy there, but but i don t i don t think that s really going to solve anything other than i don t i don t get why anybody that would appeal to anybody. okay. but you are you ve been very out front on legalizing. we d oh, yeah, of course. i heard that, you to john, that s just a character i play until never smoked, enjoyed my life i heard you say or reddit? maybe it was a tweet. i don t know what it was. you said. i m not a progressive, i m a democrat. what does that mean? how how do you, what does that distinction? because i m always i don t think i ve used the word progressive. i think i ve said woke. i think there s a big difference between woke and i know that word triggers a lot of people because it had a great beginning as a meeting but words migrate and it went to something else. i think there s a big difference between an old school liberal and a wolf person. you say progressive democrat. how do you describe this? yeah. no, i agree it s like i ve just say i ve been saying that for years actually, i said that i didn t leave the label. it left me on that. right. and that really after happened now, on october 7, i was really knew that that whole progressive stack would be blasted apart and they re not gonna be any kind of way how the democrats are going to be able to reply to that kind of respond to that kind of and i really decided early on that i believe that what s going to be the right side with israel throughout all of that? and i knew that would be democrats would continue to peel away and walk away from its, from standing with israel on that. but that s where i decided after how do you explain that? if you can that the people who considered themselves the most liberal have abandon israel, which was always a liberal darling for the people who a terrorist organization, the people who outwardly say they want a genocide, who outwardly or the one side of this, who was against the two-state solution. so how they wound up with them? why do you think that is? and will this split the democratic party? well, it does because it, there s an appeal there and i think e. to talk about that, last week, you really hit with the gender or apartheid. yes, i m talking about a lot of these issues and some of the most progressive and left a parts of the democratic party or are standing for the side that have kinds of organizations like hamas or these kind of nations that there are no rights for women. and they certainly don t embrace the lgbtq fans of lifestyle and even in philadelphia, the queers for palestine blocked the pride for aid in philadelphia. and i never saw that on the bingo card, but really all right, well, it may seem lonely out there sometimes when you re brave, like you are, but you have a lot of fans. fans here, and then you have a lot of fans all over the country. when i told people you were coming on, a lot of them were really excited that you re here, but they all had one question. didn t they wanted me to ask you, which is what is the deal with the wardrobe please ask last year i noticed you had a great joke. you re really now, if you put a picture of b in your life, he dresses like a guy that the airline lost his luggage and i know address like a slob. i m not making a statement or anything. but it s like i m in the comfort. yeah. it s just comfort and i m kind of it s like i don t have to iron and it s like it it s really good. i can t, you know, it s kinda hard to find suits and all those things and i put i never understood why anybody thought that, why that was interesting, but but what s really crazy is just like it was more controversial. and i want to be clear. i wasn t behind the train changing the dress code or anything. i really wasn t. but more people were seemed more concerned about me me could wearing a hoodie on the floor as opposed to we have senators taking bribes and i m still a freshman you seem like we re in a really good place well, i m sitting sitting across having a near-death experience and going through that kind of a blowtorch of $100 million. in an attack acts and all of the kinds of things to emerge on the side where i m grateful to be here, both right. with you and back with my kids and my family and everything. and i just decided i really want to be the kind of voice that s consistent and has a moral clarity on issues that may not be controversial for democrats and but i m not sure why anya, that s controversial for democrats, whether it s about israel or the border, or people just want a these days, john, everything everything is controversial to everybody. yeah. but you keep doing what you re doing i thank you hey, mom how many should i decorated have ran lu that s a really tough call. who are you? if you look at the latest data you re probably going to need a lot of those purple sprinkles how this guy really knows his stuff michelin innovates on the road and far beyond by manufacturing costs that is leg belt should allow for greater flexibility of movement michelin motion for life from real quality that starts in our factory to real performance in your backyard still tools or as tough and dependable as the people who use them this fathers de, give them the gift that s built for dab right now, save $30 on the fs 56 roce gas-powered driven real still well, my doctor gave me breaths tree for my copd. things changed for me. race treat better breathing symptom improvement, and reduce flare-ups. registry won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden creating problems. it is not grandma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it, don t take breaths, treat more than prescribed. registry may increase your risk of thrush pneumonia and osteoporosis. call your doctor if for some reason thank chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur ask your doctor about breast tree towns built on revenge. my job is to avoid a war nine is dropping were the same stream, mayor of kingstown and other hit series exclusively on paramount plus every time i need a new phone, i had to switch carriers. i told him that verizon everyone can get the best deals like that iphone 15 on them, switching all the time. it wasn t easy. 35, you re going to be here forever. and here s your wireless contract i need a lawyer for this. those were hard days represent tips. now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade, i m officially done switching new and existing customer whereas good iphone 59 us when they trade in any iphone, any condition guaranteed, i really wish you d told me sooner. i did psoriatic arthritis is tough. symptoms can be unpredictable one day, judge, joyce hurt next, it s on your skin it s painful i couldn t move like are used to. i got because santos feels good to move because consent. x has real people move and feel better. it treats multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis for less joint pain, swelling, and tenderness back pain, and clearer scan and go syntax can even help stop further joint damage. don t use if you re allergic to go syntax before starting, get checked for tuberculosis an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. some are fatal. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle, legs, or cough out a vaccine plan to, or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. i felt better. sure. what s the mole has your rheumatologist about cosine i m jessica schneider at the federal courthouse in washington, and this is cnn reason magazine or how host of the podcast, the fifth column, matt welch is back where this journalist and the new york times bestselling book, bad therapy, why the kids earn growing up, abigail schreier is finally here okay? so this is the week where we celebrated the greatest generation saving democracy. so we could learn about hunter biden s smoking crack weekend and nutshell so i feel like it s one of those stories were both sides have a lot of wrong in their handling. a member at the beginning when the laptop came mount the left-wing media just would not even admit it was a thing, right? it just had to be a hoax or it had to be russian this information. it just didn t exist. they wouldn t write about it that was wrong. and the right is wrong to pretend it means something except possibly about joe biden s parenting the question i want to ask because i know your book is about it and you ve written about parenting. okay. why do all the political families have this near dwell up family it isn t just because they re famous. we went into every family that have that have a billy carter are roger clinton george bush himself was the ne er-do-wells the beginning of time we ve known that children basically need three things and these are essential. they need parental authority, they need to hear no, they need independence, and they need loving community and kids with high-profile families often get none of those. no one s willing to tell them no they never get independence because i don t want anyone to let make the big guy look bad and they don t have loving community. they re raising a political battlefield. and unfortunately too many of american kids today also don t have those. you, the way you describe it, you suddenly everybody s from a prominent family because i read in your book the kids go off to college and they ve never heard the word no, that s right or the word wait, that s right. well, it s today are under a microscope. they re under a microscope. they re literally because of the protection, of course, social media and whatnot, but also because their parents are so afraid of traumatizing them, they ve been told by mental health experts that say hey, no, punishing can be traumatizing. so they don t exert their own authority. so these kids are basically we have a generation being raised as shrinks kids and they re miserable. there s a link with your d-day tie-in, which is that we understood that generation and others, but especially that one to have a sense of stoicism right? like you re gonna go through some bad stuff. it s going you re going to fail. there s gonna be unfair things that happened to you. the question is, what are you going to do that the father of a 15-year-old and a nine-year-old, they re not teaching lot of stoicism and the brooklyn public school system last time i checked, it s at some point she starts to use as an excuse to get out of chores like that s not my journey i m not going to holding a laundry. so i mean, at least they re making some fun out of it. but there is something to that and there s also, i think when you think about the greatest generation, they probably couldn t use a little bit more therapy than they actually, yes. there s a happy medium, but i mean, you mentioned d-day i couldn t help think of it because i was reading the new york times says, among college students, ptsd among adolescents is surging. ptsd, that fact that we have so my father was in that he wasn t on omaha beach, but he was in that campaign in france ptsd. but then allow kids to think they have ptsd that s right. they don t have ptsd raised gently and brentwood don t have ptsd combat vets sometimes do have ptsd and they always treatment when they have it. it is real, but that s not what kids at universities have. what they have is what i call in my book bad therapy. i d they have a kind of emotional hypochondria. they have focused so so much on their own bad feelings that they magnified these feelings. they make them in an organizing principle of their lives and then they have trouble escaping them. okay, so here s my question. we had a meat to reckoning about zach s 2017. we had a racial reckoning in 2020. i feel like there s a parenting reckoning coming what a roll back pushback on gentle parenting. i think that people are realizing that this kind of stuff has raised a lot of up kids rather six. maybe it s a mere book 49 49.5%. so let s just say half of adolescents at some point have a mental health disorder die. so half of the kids in the country are diagnosable okay. either they really are that up or we re over diagnosing. that s right. it s the latter. we are way over diagnosing exam. this generation has had more mental health intervention in schools, more mental health treatment, 40% of them been in therapy. they ve had therapeutic parenting and it s making them worse. these kids don t need therapy, they need less therapy. they need to be told, i love you. you live. now, get out of my house and have an adventure generations, let s say 15 to 22, they got banged up during covid pretty bad. and the more you were in places where schools and society was locked down, the more banged up you got. and also that s tied up with social, media and kind of knew what you re doing on your phone all the time. the stuff that john height talks about. so i think there is a legitimate mental health thing going on with teenagers and especially teenage girls in this country. the question is, are we teaching them to get out of it and also to have fun and to take some kind of initiative in their lives, or are we encouraging? thank them to think of themselves as victims? and i hope it s not the latter because you re not going to get much pasture 18th birthday, walking around and saying that it s somebody else s who still this is so obvious. and we all agree who still defending this? i think the trauma industry is they basically have brought in i mean, that s what we have. we convinced a generation that any distress is trauma. it s permanent psychopathology. now you have a disability and you have to live with that forever. and these kids are behaving like mental patients, right right. i mean and. their medicated than like that to me is where it really goes off the rails when you start picking a lot of them are on whatever the psychiatric drugs they put them on. and, you know, when i think about the two big ones that i see always talking about better now pathologized, shyness which is like social anxiety disorder. if you pathologize it and depression. i mean, that s just being bummed out my whole adolescence, my whole childhood through past college was about those two things i was just todd todd both of those things and drugging me would not have helped. that s right i discovered pot when i was 19. that drug helps organic yeah. okay. so i read about sel and i froze everybody who has kids knows what this is. this, explain this is social, emotional learning, like this takes front and center in. this explains a lot to me, wondering why they re so stupid because this is the priority above learning. is that right? that s right. and what is social? i mean, obviously it sounds like what it is. well, purportedly, it s supposed to teach kids things like emotional regulation, which we want them to have of course. but in fact how do you teach kids how to handle that emotions, right? because we re not worried about them having too much joy. we re worried about them having too much sadness, regret, bad feelings. so it necessarily always goes negative. it becomes a kind of group therapy. therapy, and it forces kids to ruminate, to pathologically focus on their bad feelings on their pain. and those are the number one symptoms of depression. and it s interesting 70% of very liberal liberal, the students, they say, this is when the american enterprise institute, so they re a little right leaning reported feeling anxious, 52% of conservatives but it does seem like the liberals are more in their own head and our more suffering from this is that, is that right? and why i have seen that statistic luck. the reason that i think so, that might be it s because those are the parents in general who are giving their kids more therapy. they re highly educated and they re more anxious because are highly educated, they re more anxious themselves. they are pushing their anxiety onto their kids. and we know you can communicate anxiety. p parents need to be tougher for their kids. they need to set an example here and they need to stop obsessing over kids happiness and start worrying about making kids strong also involved in the other book you wrote your famous one that was banned, right? your book irreversible damage was about gender reassignment, i think is the proper term we call it. well, now we have the cast review from england which said you must feel somewhat vindicated by this, because america is now an outlier country. this scandinavian countries that were doing in england that was doing it. they ve all pulled back to cast report says that the evidence supporting the use of puberty-blocking drugs and other hormonal medications and adolescents was remarkably week why why is america so behind? why, why are we usually when we look at those countries, you go, these are what the liberal as they re doing. so we re just going to know, we re we re alone on this. yeah, we are. i mean, i think two reasons england had national centralized health care. so they got into this faster and they also were able to shut it down faster and that because ours is our health care is obviously decentralized. it s harder to shut bad medicine down in this country, but there s something else that i have to say. they had something really special in england. they had jk rowling and she helped gender-critical feminist pry away from the progressive left on this issue and stand up for the bodily integrity of girls and stand up for the integrity of medicine elements in the professional practice. it s worth pointing out to the extent that your audience might not, that abigail is book was targeted by people who worked for the aclu? yes. saying that, oh, it d be the highest thing to do, correct. to block the distribution of this book, it speaks to a kind of aggressive, illiberal conformity that takes place, not just on this issue, but other issues. having to do with covid and i think it s kind a new thing, glass ten years, especially those has a semi d ranging moment where people who are involved in journalism or academia, or whatever we ll just say, we ve created a new taboo. and you re on the wrong side of the taboo we must attack this person. we must attack jesse singal, other people who ve been working in this, and yes, it hurts their careers, but we don t necessarily have to cry for them for you. she s on bill maher, so she s doing okay. but it hurts them. that s what people don t get when you block off the information that s coming in. particularly on a contested subject particularly that s affecting kids and life and death situations. and you re blocking off the information. so i enforcing a taboo, you are hurting yourself. one thing to critique, it s another thing to say, no one should be able to do even look at this to even read it as if you were some sort of crazy person. again, i ll just say one more thing, you know, in the, you know, three or four years it took between the time i wrote my last book to talk about the same risks that are in the cas report two, until they mainstream media worked up the backbone to actually do some reporting tens of thousands of american children were harmed. and i don t think you re saying i certainly wouldn t be the one saying that there aren t trans folks who who we do need some transition exenatide i think you were just saying was there s no guardrails on this and these are children. these are children not about the bodies of whatever they want with their body as long as they don t using children as cannon fodder in their culture wars is what it looked like to me. the most anticipated moment of this election. and the stakes couldn t be higher. the president and the former president s one stage moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate thursday, june 27th, nine lives and cnn and streaming on max michelin, innovate on the road and far beyond with errorless tire s designed exploring new frontiers michelin motion for life apartments.com. let s any landlord find qualified renters and signed leases and polite payments from any place even here. and where s here? 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yes. you can. toward the cell block we re in 1980, 33 inmates were killed in one of the worst prison riots in history. so bring the kids and don t forget that selfie and the gas chamber here in california, the prison had dublin made headlines because it s where they sent laurie laughlin after her college cheating scandal. but allows its closing why because the rape club that the guards had going was so impervious and ingrained, it was easier just to shutter the whole place and prison in america is a place that forces the people in. it, forces them to become racists. if you re black, you re with the brothers. if you re white, you have to join the arians, get heads. there s no oh, leave me out of it. i like everybody let s just all go get co-exist tattoos on our knuckles what kind of society is cool with all this? we call them correctional facilities, but that s like calling the nfl brain development program i m not saying that it s not okay to lock people up. it is, of course it is. did he does it all the time but it s not okay to deliberately violate the eighth amendment s prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment. fake tough guys think, hey, if prisons bet enough, it will incentivize people to stay at a treble after they get out, but they re wrong. it actually does the opposite when a year of release around 40% of prisoners or rearrested within ten years. it s 82% i don t think they want back in because they missed the toilet wine if we re trying to make inmates into criminals for life, it s working because prison is like linkedin for low-lifes you can t beat the networking. it s a taxpayer funded criminal mentorship program. but here s the thing. around 95% of all inmates eventually do get out. so the question becomes who do we want returning to society? some hapless broke du goes in for selling drugs or passing a bad check, and a few years later it comes out as sexual predator with white power written on his neck. and we also to just accept that like, well, that s how prison works. you go embed and you come out worse. if you re lucky when you get out, we ll let you work the tilta world, the carnival or date britney spears it almost makes stealing catalytic converters not worth it. but it doesn t have to be this way. we could change. there are even places in the world that offer a model as to what that would look like. norway s recidivism rate is 20% prisoners, their du, yoga, they learn a trade, is a playground for the kids when they visit and the guards aren t maniacs who failed the police psych exam and it s a place that and a place that looks less like our prisons and more like what you d find on an american college campus only of course, with bless antisemitism of course the, big difference is that unlike here scandinavian countries don t have private for profit prisons. that s what we have here. and corporations, it turns out, don t run prisons to improve society. they run them to make money which means putting more people in the system. the more prisoners, the more profit. this is why they lobby congress for three strikes, rules, and keeping weed illegal. they don t want them rehabilitated they want return customers. all right, that s our show. and if you enjoyed this editorial this june 21st, here s what 22nd at the end 22nd 26 and 27. thank you. matt welch hi i m, now, going to. watch ver time on youtube michelin innovates on the road and far beyond by manufacturing acetic leg belt should allow for greater flexibility of movement michelin motion for life. you have chronic kidney disease. you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with bars sega because their places like to be for segal can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections and low blood sugar are rare life-threatening bacteria we will infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking four sika and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of disinfection and allergic reaction or ketoacidosis brynn real quality that starts in our factory to real performance in your backyard. steel tools, or as tough and dependable as the people who use them this fathers de, give him the gift that s built for dad right now save $50 on select ak system battery tool sets real still first we did the impossible then you age so many of the impossible that we completely ran out and now they re the cook is back at subway compared with other choose one verb recto chu protects from fleas and ticks for 12 weeks nearly three times longer. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurological disorder protection that last longer. bravo rafat. bravo with a freestyle libre three system. know your glucose levels
happen. like what i i would never go back, but i think what i m trying to say is i just miss something i never had. what she has instead is a cause to help those kids she once knew. and the others coming after them and to forgive herself as well. that s all for this edition of dateline. i m craig melvin. thank you for watching. ank you i m andrea canning, and this is dateline. vehe had gone off the road into this creek bed. they tetold me this vehicle had gone off the road intohis creek bed. she s got severe injuries to her head. little did you know the mystery that was about to unfold. i go into the living room and i see blood all over the place. i went into the bathroom there is more blood. the whole time we were thinking it was a car wreck. the rumor mill is in overdrive. there was gossiped that there was an affair. this was tearing her apart. you really cannot make this up. there is no other way to describe a human being but satan s bond. spawn. hello and welcome to dateline. when judy met jamie baldwin he swept her off her feet and then jamie said judy suffered not one but two accidents in the same night and she was gone. detective believed the grieving husband, but her family launched their own investigation. the question, was this the handiwork of a clever killer? here is the black box. andrea canning: the slow-moving water, chilled by the december air, trickled over her lifeless body. the slow moving water the slow moving water chilled trickled over her lifeless body. she was one of my biggest supporters. she is not here anymore. how this wife, mother and grandmother what end up in this creek will consume her family for years. i am not giving up until i find out what happened. what h andrea canning: terry tinker, the coroner for chester do you get a lot of car crashes? we do. terry tinker, the corner have been called here to the site of a fatal traffic accidents. it was right before midnight on december 14, 2016. a husband and wife were in their jeep when it ran off the road, ending up down the bottom. i saw that lady and i knew she was, jamie baldwin. my friend. terry had known judy orr- baldwin most of his life. that must ve been such a shock to the system to see? it was. a longtime friend like in the creek. the corner noticed some unusual markings. deep and dark blackened circles around her eyes. i am seeing a lot of bulging eyes, is what a lot of people call recognize. how do you get those? from probably brain injury. driving the jeep was judy s husband jamie. he suffered minor injuries. jamie told first responders they were traveling down the historic role when he swerved to avoid hitting and truck. is out of control jeep careened and crashed into the creek. he said he was knocked out and when he came to judy s led body was in the creek a few feet away. he called 911. ay. he called 911. andrea canning: jamie had already been taken away in an ambulance, when detective chris reynolds, with the chester county sheriff s office, jamie had already been taken away in an ambulance when detective chris reynolds arrived on the scene. i took my flashlight and i saw and cloth with blood on it. there was one on the seat. the detective saw the jeep store open judy apparently had been ejected. what is the first incident instinct? an accident. the same night judy s two sons is not might not phone calls. the roman told their mom had been in a car crash and they needed to get to the hospital right away. i was the first one there. i ran to the emergency side like where is judy orr-baldwin ? they were like we don t have a judy baldwin. josh found his stepdad in a hospital room. i said with my mom? they were like she didn t make it. i said what do you mean? he said she s dead. chris arrived shortly after and got the terrible news. he asked his stepdad what happened. all they said was i wish it would ve been me. it felt like and dream. i thought i cannot believe we are going through this again. because her dad died? tragically. their dad died in a motorcycle accident 12 years earlier. it seems unbelievable to not lose their mom in a crash. here you are having to say goodbye to your other parent, your mom. that is really a hard thing to do to lose both parents and such a young age. i know nothing is perfect. but we didn t have any problems. we were all happy. our parents are gone. around 6:30 that morning judy s ,23 lease was sound asleep when her phone rang. her dad gave her the tragic news that her aunt, known as little judy because she was just 4 11 have been killed. he said little judy is dead. i said what are you talking about? i started screaming and crying. i woke up everybody in the house. when judy s nephew heard the news he realized his aunt for love yorky was all alone. early in the morning he headed over to judy s house. the whole time and thinking i m just going to get the dog. rodney wright wasn t prepared for what he saw. it was a shock. i go into the living room and i see blood all over the place. blood on the floor. i went into the bathroom there was more. the whole time we are thinking it was a car wreck. what happened? a family horrified, mystified and looking for answers. investigators are about to ask questions of the one person who knows just what happened that evening. coming up, what jamie says happened to judy. what jamie ss happened to judy. that baffled the coroner andrea canning: so this was going to be the key area terry tinker: this was the andrea canning: in the autopsy. key thing right there. andrea canning: when dateline. continues. and the clue that baffled the corner. so this was going to be the key area in the autopsy? 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this is our dmvip. vending machine charcuterie? for a great low rate, go with the general. for a great low rate, just a few hours after judy orr baldwin was found dead at the scene of a car crash, her nephew was stunned to find blood in her house chest and a few hours after judy orr-baldwin was found dead at the scene of a car crash her nephew was stunned to find blood in her house, and a lot of it. he had no idea what was going on. it was so confusing. stuff just didn t add up. turns out judy s husband told investigators there have been two accidents that night. judy had taken a terrible fall at home, the reason for the blood. they were on their way to the hospital when they crashed. i was in complete shock. now judy s family, including her niece was grieving. she was a bright light in and darkroom. was judy and romantic? did she believe in true love? she did, just because she had experienced it. todd was her first husband who died in that motorcycle crash. after he passed she wanted to be loved like that again. she was lonely. she wanted somebody for sure. so judy s family was happy when she started dating jamie baldwin, a former police officer and not 11 officer. the couple had a whirlwind romance. after just eight months they married in 2012. how did you feel that your mom was with a former police officer? faith, protected, somebody that had her back. did they seem happy? extremely. her being happy, i am extremely happy. detective chris reynolds was looking into her death as part of a routine investigation. i knew ms. judy for a very long time. every since i was a child. everybody loved her. the detective had never met judy s husband, but wanted more details on what happened that night. about a week after her death he asked jamie to come down to the sheriff s office. why do you bring him in even though you believe this is an accident? i want to make sure i have everything covered. she was one of those people that as soon as your mentor you were a friend of her, loved her. she was just bigger than life. jamie said he had mostly recovered from his minor injuries. emotionally though he said he had a lot of healing to do. to andrea canning: jamie said the night judy died, he and his wife were decorating their christmas tree. he then, briefly stepped outside to put jamie seven i judy died he and his wife were decorating the christmas tree. he then briefly stepped outside to put some tools away in his shed. when i came back in, i don t know if she decided to fix something on the tree. i don t know. tree. i don t know. two stocking holders. brjamie said he assumed judy fell off the ladder and hit her head on the mantle. on the floor with two stocking holders, one of them were broken. were broken. e on her wound, but the bleeding didn t stop. jamie told the detective he grabbed a washcloth from the bathroom and put pressure on her wound, but the bleeding didn t stop. he thought judy needed stitches. needed stitches. was a few minutes from their house, he said the couple got into their jeep and started driving to a bigger although chester hospital was a few minutes from the house he said the couple got into their jeep and started driving to a bigger hospital 30 minutes away. minutes away. andrea canning: and that s when he said, they went flying down that embankment, ending up in the creek. jamie said the impact of the crash knocked him out. that is when he said they went flying down the embankment ending up in the creek. jamie said the impact of the crash knocked him out. he hit something. hit someth. i ll walk you back out the back door over here. andrea canning: after about an hour, the interview was finished. jamie s story seemed to match what the seasoned detective had seen for himself, like that bloody washcloth after about one hour the interview was finished. jamie stories seemed to match what the seasoned detective has seen, like the bloody washcloth in the jeep. and when he went to the house the night of the accident. i saw blood on the mantle of blood on the floor. i did see the ladder leaned toward the christmas tree at the time. does the blood look consistent with a possible fall? yes. if an accident as of right now. detective reynolds was continuing his investigation. the corner still trying to figure out what cost judy s death. he wanted to know more about a large wound on her forehand. there was no damage to her legs or to her arms. all of it was concentrated toward the head. this was the key thing right there. he concluded julie died from a skull fracture and those raccoon eyes were the result of a large amount of blood accumulated in her skull. the corner struggled to figure out what caused the fracture. i need to know what you think she fell against or what was said by mr. baldwin. all of the stuff has got to be added up. he had to determine if the fatal injury happened during all at her house or during the car accident. even though judy had two autopsies before she was buried, the corner could not reach and conclusion. her death certificate read pending investigation. police are not the only ones investigating. judy s family and friends have questions too. what they discover will cast doubt on jamie story. i am surprised i did it. i was in such shock. i knew in my heart something else had happened. jesse become suspicious and takes matters into her own hands. you decided to record the call? i.d. d. was the one in this family harboring a secret? an eye-popping story when dateline continues. dateline continues. it appeared judy orr baldwin had been involved in two accidents on the same night. it appeared judy emorr-baldw had been involved in two accidents on the same night. most people seem to agree, sadly it looks like judy was the victim of bad luck. one person, however, was not buying it, judy s niece. she thought what happened seemed suspicious. i had a very weird feeling in my stomach. although jamie had an explanation, it didn t make sense. why would you not go to chester hospital if she just bumped her head? and why did jamie take a dark rural back road when he could ve taken a much faster nearby highway. that was super odd to me. so jesse decided to take a bold step. she put her amateur detective on and call jamie. you decided to record the call? i did. what was telling you to record the call? i am not sure what told me. i am surprised i did it. i was in such shock, but i knew in my heart something else had happened. i wanted to hear what he has to say. she asked jamie how he got knocked out when the jeep crashed? jeep crashed? jesse was most concerned about her aunt s final moments. fina how would you describe his demeanor? i would simply say, he had zero remorse. he was talking just, how we re talking. how would you describe his demeanor? i was simply say he had zero remorse. he was talking just how we are talking. no emotion really. emotion rea. said, that s the good news yeah andrea canning: which seemed a little, like, the language was a little odd. one thing that struck me if he said that s the good news. it seemed the language was a little odd. it didn t make any sense to me either. it was an eerie feeling. why would you say that? jesse couldn t get the phone call out of her head. i replayed that recording so many times. are you expressing your concerns to judy s sons? i let them listen to the phone call and i said it s just not fitting right with me. after judy s sons darted to think about it they too had serious doubts. we are trying to figure out what really happened to our mom. sold one of judy s friends would tell the brothers more than they ever wanted to know. k black and judy were nearly inseparable and share their most personal secrets with each other. you said you were like sisters. we were. i miss her a lot. a whole lot. she and her husband consider themselves judy and jamie s best friends. the four belonged to the back of riker group called helping hands and harleys. they spent nearly every weekend with the couple. kay knew something almost no one else did. i knew his marriage wasn t like he was trying to make everyone else believe. jamie told others he had a strong and happy marriage. hap. andrea canning: kay says, a few months before her death, judy confided in her that her marriage was on the rocks. kay says a few months before her death judy confided to her that her marriage was on the rocks. she thought something was going on with jamie and another woman, a single mom who also happened to be the bike club treasurer. she started having her suspicious. she was thinking jamie and terry were having an affair. the club treasurer and jamie? if one went to smoke they will look at the other one and say come on, let s go smoke. little things like that judy has started picking up on. we ve seen a lot of touchy- feely stuff that didn t quite look right. judy would ask me and i would say maybe or maybe not. nobody knows for sure but everybody s talking about it. judy decided to find out for herself. she confronted terry. terry said we are not doing anything. she confronted jamie. she said they are so calm about it. she said i know they are doing something. within a week of judy s death kay set judy s sons out. as they absorbed it all they remembered terry king was at the hospital the night her mom died. in fact they got she got there before they did. another even more awkward story . i don t want to tell this. she said jamie has been trying to get your mom to have a threesome with him and terry. what? this is not something your mom wanted? no. or something that you want to think about. sex, lies and a christian by club. who would ve thought. exactly. soon after opening up to judy s family she called detective reynolds. i said i have some text messages and i think you need to see them. she tells it there that she suspected jamie and terry. he said i will get back with you. i never heard from him again. the brothers and jesse also felt they were not getting anywhere. we got to find someone to help us and get some answers. why is nobody doing anything? it just didn t make sense. soon it would all start to make sense with some bombshell news. that is when we are thinking the police is looking into this. and disturbing revelation about jamie s alleged girlfriend and important evidence. did you say to your supervisor i think we should have someone come in and look at this blood? no i didn t. we found out terry went to the house and cleaned up. is this the most bungled evidence collection you ve ever seen? that might be a little nice. there was no evidence collection. when dateline continues. collection. when dateline continues. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. norman, bad news. or neurologic disorders. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? israel saying rescue four hostages during a rate in gaza. the hostages were kidnapped on october 7. gaza officials say more than 200 palestinians were killed by israel strikes nearby marking one of the bloodiest single days in eight months of war so far. a source, nbc news the league s favorite and darling caitlin clark will not be joining team usa during the paris olympics this summer. now back to dateline. o datelin welcome back to dateline. detectives were convinced judy orr-baldwin died after two tragic accidents in the same night. the corner was not so sure and neither was judy s family who suspected her husband was having a rumored romance they believe led to murder. now a startling new revelation was about to raise even more questions. back to two months had passed and her family was questioning jamie story about what happened. then they heard something stunning about terry king and jamie, they moved in together. what are you guys thinking? that is when we are thinking the police is looking into this. the brothers have been pushing the chester county s prosecution prosecutors office to look deeper into their mom s death. the deputy prosecutor was keeping tabs on the sheriff s investigation. we were being told to the sheriff s office they were doing what they were supposed to do. it turns out they were not. the prosecutor would learn there were serious problems. they are basically saying we don t need your help right now? exactly. we were hearing from the family people had not been interview. they were concerned evidence had not been collected. chris reynolds said he truly believed it was an accident and just didn t feel the need to investigate this as a potential crime. right. that is something with his experience he should ve known you do not make those kinds of assumptions up front. when someone dies you treat it as a murder until you know otherwise. we asked detective reynolds about how he handled the investigation. did you take judy s close? did you take her cell phone or jamie cell phone? we didn t collect anything at the house. that was a judgment call. some consider that and questionable call because there was something else. early in the investigation the coroner told the detective he thought judy s staff look suspicious. that it might even be a homicide. you just being overly cautious as a detective comedy juice think we should do a little more? we should get evidence. even if it s not a murder at least we did our job. i agree 100%. and the photos the detectives took? this is how a number of them came out. some are so blurry and so bad. the camera we had wasn t good. you can still take still shots. i struggle with the camera we have. he also failed to take critical forensic evidence. did you say to your supervisor i think we should have someone come in to look at the blood? i did it. reynolds never sealed the house after photographing. anyone can go in. and someone did, terry king. what happened to the blood evidence of judy s house? according to what we found out was that terry left the hospital and she went back to the hospital and cleaned it up. with permission from detective reynolds? yes. not only did he give her permission, he offered help. i gave her the number two a company that specializes in crime scenes and disaster restoration. so you are giving her advice ? no. she asked for help. that s with anybody else. if they asked for advice on how . right, but you are giving her advice on claiming a potential crime scene. at the time the crime scene we were done with. she s literally erasing the crime scene? that is exactly what happened. is this the most bundled hamlet billing bungled handling of a thing you ve ever seen? yes. even though there was a lack of evidence the prosecutor spoke to the corner and came to the conclusion this was no accident, but a murder. at some point i m going to have to look at this family and possibly tell them we are not going to have what we need to get justice for your family member. judy s family was losing hopes. and then and breakthrough eight months after judy s death the sheriff s office agreed to allow sled to take charge of the case, that is south carolina s top law enforcement agency. what does ladd do now that they are taking this over? they jumped in. agents went to the house and took another look, re-examined the autopsy findings. they came to the same conclusion, it all added up to homicide. we said we definitely have enough to present to a grand jury at this point. for judy s family it was a long time coming. in august 2018 a year and half after her death jamie baldwin was arrested for the murder of his wife. you get a call finally that jamie has been arrested. were you shocked? you could breathe a little bit. he s arrested for the murder of our mom. by now came the hard part, how to prosecute a case with little physical evidence. this was no slam dunk. far from it. the family knew going in that we had a real battle. coming up, maybe her falling off the latter isn t going to be a good explanation as to why she has these horrible injuries. he comes up with the idea that she was ejected from the vehicle. the jaw-dropping story told by the jeep. most people are aware playing have black boxes, vehicles have them too. in this case judy s wrangler had a lockbox. it did. it did. and with vitiligo, the pursuit for your pigment is no exception. it s time you had a proven choice to help restore what s yours. opzelura is the first and only fda-approved prescription treatment for nonsegmental vitiligo. proven to help repigment skin over time. restoring what s yours. it s possible with a steroid-free cream that you can apply yourself. opzelura can lower your ability to fight infections including tb or hepatitis b or c. serious lung infections, skin cancer, blood clots, and low blood cell counts occurred with opzelura. in people taking jak inhibitors, serious infections, increased risk of death, lymphoma, other cancers, and major cardiovascular events have occurred. the most common side effects were acne and itching where applied. repigmentation is possible. ask your dermatologist today about starting or refilling opzelura. pursue it. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions. like what is your glucose and can you have more carbs? before you decide with the freestyle libre 3 system know your glucose and where it s heading no fingersticks needed. now the world s smallest and thinnest sensor sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. the #1 cgm prescribed in the u.s. try it for free at freestylelibre.us stay ahead of your moderate-to-severe eczema. and show off clearer skin and less itch with dupixent, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, that helps heal your skin from within. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don t change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. ask your eczema specialist andrea canning: october 2019, it was a story that gripped the people of chester county, south carolina. october 2019, it was a four story that gripped the people. it had been almost three years since the death of judy orr- baldwin and that her husband was about to go on trial for murder. were you worried that because the investigation was not handled the way that it should have been that would impact the trial? i thought it was going to have a huge impact. we offered a plea deal. he turned it down. jamie baldwin pleaded not guilty. it was probably the most substantially circumstantial evidence that i had ever tried in a murder case. candace lively set out to prove jamie killed his wife and then tried to cover it up. this is unfortunately simply about someone who wanted to get rid of his wife. someone who wanted to have control of what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it. lightly told jurors the couple had argued multiple times about terry king. on the night of judy s that she believes judy demanded her husband end his relationship with terry. he got extremely angry. he has a temper. he attacked her at that mantle. the prosecutor alleged in a fit of rage jamie took one of the stocking holders and hit judy so hard it caused her brain to believe, leaving her with those raccoon eyes. this thing is heavy. very heavy. the shape closely matched the irregular cut on judy s head. whenever you look at the picture of the santa stocking holder it really fit the ridges in that unusual laceration. a medical expert testified after judy was attacked she probably died within five minutes. lively argued that it went jamie came up with his elaborate plan to cover up his crime. he comes up with this idea of maybe her falling off a ladder isn t going to be a good explanation as to why she has these horrible injuries. she said he took his wife s dead body, put it in the jeep and took a dark rule road so he wouldn t be seen when he stage the accident. he came up with the idea that she was ejected from the vehicle. he pulled her out in stages her. to prove that the prosecution relied on the end lance corporal brian trotter, an accident reconstruction expert with the state highway patrol was on the scene that night. he testified and showed us how a device in the jeep recorded the last second of the vehicles movement. most people are aware that a plane has black boxes. i was not aware vehicles have them too. in this case judy s wrangler had a black box. i took this one out of a retired police car to show you what they look like. in simple terms when there is accident the car hit something and it triggers the black box to start recording information. what did you learn? the one for this case came back with no data. that is actually really important? in this case it is. it means no crash. the theory is jamie slowly and purposely drove his jeep into the creek. the most surprising witness was terry king, the woman at the center of the alleged love triangle. i was hoping when she was finally put under oath in court that she would come clean. terry was no longer living with jamie. with jamie. teri flat out denieg a romantic relationship even though she was and witness for the state the prosecutor immediately faced a big challenge. terry flat-out denied having a romantic relationship with jamie. with jamie. andrea canning: but the prosecutor did have text messages sent between teri and jamie. the prosecutor did have text messages sent between terry and jamie. d jamie. the judge ruled she could not show them to the jury, but she could question terry about them. about them. andrea canning: teri testified, she and jamie were just platonic roommates, nothing more. jamie were just platonic roommates and nothing more. you felt that terry was misleading the jury? absolutely. she had tried to mislead us for months as well. lightly said she has suspicions, but never found evidence to prove it. terry denied any involvement. the defense was up next. they were ready to exploit all the holes in the prosecution s case. would it be enough to set jamie free? coming up . an expert witness says judy s blood in the jeep proves the prosecution is wrong about when she died. if she is actively bleeding she is alive. and then the verdict. everybody was holding hands and you could hear everybody gas. when dateline continues. gas. when dateline continues. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. some people just know there s a better way to do things. like bundling your home and auto insurance with allstate. yeah, she knows. and some people. don t. like. come on. yikes! ughh. no. you know, there s a better way. save time and money by bundling your home and auto with allstate. you re in good hands with allstate. and auto with allstate. welcome back. prosecutors accused jamie baldwin of murdering his wife, judy, during an argument over his alleged affair. then, they said he staged a car accident welcome back. e prosecutors accused jamie bought one of murdering his wife over his alleged affair. then they said he staged a car accident to cover up the crime. the case was largely circumstantial. now it was the defense team s turn. they will start with who they thought was the state s most problematic witness. here is the conclusion of the black box. jamie baldwin was facing life in prison for the murder of his wife. his attorneys argue terry king s testimony undermined the state s entire case. terry king testified there was no affair and no evidence of an affair. the defense asked terry to further explain her living situation with jamie. plain herg situation with jamie. the ones where she said she loved him. she said there was an innocent explanation for the text messages between her and jamie, the ones where she said she loved him. did you ever tell judy that you love her? every time i talk to her. not only that she told jurors she whenever the tray judy. tray judy. andrea canning: most importantly, the defense insisted, there was no crime, just two tragic accidents. most importantly, the defense insisted there was no crime, just two tragic accidents and, they said, the state didn t have any evidence to prove otherwise. there was no dna. there were no fingerprints and there was no weapon. they call detective reynolds to the stand and attacked his investigation. his investigation. ourselves in this situation. they would have cleared up all those questions at that time, how does that all play into your defense? had a done a better job we probably would not have found ourselves in the situation. this would ve gone down as an accident. it s what it was. the defense did agree the stocking holder may have caused due to spinal injury, but not because jamie used it as a weapon. we believe she was on the ladder and fell and struck the ornament that was sitting on the mantelpiece and fell to the floor. ross gardner testified and told us all the blood found in the jeep proved something crucial, that she was alive when they crashed. he pointed to the blood on the bumper, the passenger door and the saturation of blood on her seat. we are looking at the passenger seat. what we can see is there is saturation throughout. gardner says contrary to the theory that judy died within five minutes at her home the evidence in the jeep proved that was impossible. if she is actively bleeding she is technically alive. her heart is beating. after leaving the house literally this tells us she was bleeding while in the jeep. the defense also pointed to several experts, including the prosecution who all agreed judy s injuries could ve been accidental. having three medical experts who cannot say this is definitely not an accident. in my mind there is reasonable doubt. after seven days of testimony the case went to the jury. the prosecutor felt there was a good chance jamie could walk. she turned to the family for support and judy herself. i really felt i had judy on my shoulder. i felt that family really gave me a lot of hope. less than three hours later there was a burdick. everybody was holding hands as tight as we could. when they were at that verdict you could hear everyone gasped. with the jury on the defendant guilty of murder. of we finally got justice for mom. i just broke down and cried. i couldn t believe it. we finally got justice for mom. detective chris reynolds was in the courthouse that day too. he believes the jury made the right decision. he wants the public to know he did more than they think to look into judy s death. still, he realizes because of his incomplete investigation a killer might ve walked free. you get emotional over this? i take it personal. this case was a big learning experience. i ve never dropped the ball on anything. that night i did and i am sorry. jamie never took the stand but did speak at his sentencing. his sentencing. andrea canning: the judge sentenced the 60-year-old to life in prison without the chance of parole. the judge sentenced the 60-year- old to life in prison without the chance of parole. is he evil? 100% evil, satan s spawn 100%. judy s family says they can finally move on with their lives. there is one thing that brings them peace. you are religious. does that give you any comfort to know your mom and dad are now together? they are in a better place than we are. what would you say to judy? i will tell her that i love her and i would give her the biggest hug. that is all for this edition of dateline. thank you for watching. ank you this sunday edition of morning joe weekend. it was another fast-moving news week. here are more of the conversations you ekmight have missed. donald trump and his allies are ratcheting up their calls for revenge against de
the sites, and he comes across as a gentleman. something he is not. that is the cautionary tale is are they really are who they say they are? always, she had been surrounded by people who loved her, worried about her, cared about her. mackenzie lueck was an innocent. setting out if only for a moment to explore new possibilities. unaware that in the world she was centering, the innocent can also be pray. hi m craig melvin and this is dateline. my parents were supposed to help these kids. you would expect this to be a good christian place. no parent would have sent their child there knowing what happened. what was it like in there? it was hell. i was sexually abused. there? yes, sir. i felt like i was nothing. there were numerous concerns about abuse going on at this facility. my dad would pick a girl up by her neck, throw her to the ground. he would trip you and shove you. knock her out. yes, sir. i mean it. posted it to tiktok. knock her out. it just blew up. these allegations need to be looked into. how could i do this to my child. your parents deny everything. they say none of that stuff is true. what was going on was wrong. something needed to be done. hello and welcome to dateline. on the surface the circle of hope school appeared to be a refuge where so-called troubled girls could receive a christian education. but some students say behind closed doors they suffered abuse. their secret remained hidden in the shadows until an unlikely ally launched a courageous quest to bring it to light. here s keith morrison with broken circle. the sky is endless here at the edge of the california desert. it s her heaven. so far from the tree-tangled sky where she grew up. the woods of missouri and the yellow farmhouse where this story begins. her father s farmhouse. his school. do you love your dad? i do love my dad. are you afraid of him too? i m scared of my dad. what a strange, strange thing to love the person you re afraid of. the father you re afraid of. it s because at one point in time i wasn t afraid of him. he wasn t what he is now. but she wasn t what she is now either. which is why she s come back all these years later to the woods and the old farmhouse at her dad s school. but we begin years ago and far away in a place called feris, texas where teresa tucker a single mom of three was no other word for it, desperate. it was about her middle daughter ashley. spiraling out of control. what were you worried about? drugs and just rebellion. very mouthy and so i didn t know where to turn. how old was she at the time? 16. on that december weekend in 2014, ashley was getting kicked out of yet another rehab. so teresa called her best friend, the pastor s wife for help. my pastor and his wife told us about circle of hope. circle of hope girls ranch and boarding school. it was in missouri on a farm. the students followed a strict regimen of chores and schoolwork and bible study. was it important to you that she go to a place where there was going to be some spiritual help? at this point i didn t really care. i just needed her to have help. there are hundreds of private residential facilities across the country promising to reform troubled teens. they range from it wilderness programs to therapeutic boarding schools to boot camps. and then there are those whose lessons derive from it a very particular religious point of view. circle of hope was run by a married couple boyd and stephanie householder. at the heart of their program. miss householder was a nurse and she was going to facilitate her medications and things like that. most important of all, perhaps, they had a free bed and could take ashley right away. for just $100 a month. to teresa it felt like a miracle of sorts. she signed a contract committing ashley to an 18 month stay. and then she said good-bye. the pastor and his wife drove ashley to missouri. what was it like for you on the trip to that place. my pastor and his wife kept telling me everything s going to be okay. what were your first impressions? when we first got there it was at night. it was really dark. there they were waiting. boyd and stephanie householder. they were nice. they were sweet. they were laughing. joking. okay, this is a really good place. i m going to get help here. but as soon as the pastor and his wife left the householders changed. they went from smiling and laughing to just straight face and that was it. i mean they didn t show any emotions or anything. ashley didn t know why. she suddenly felt very afraid. and she stepped deeper into the farmhouse. into a world of fear. what was it like? it was hell. it was scary. you were alone. it was basically while you re in there it s survival. what was really happening at that ranch? tales of terror from the girls on the inside. coming up. they had girls scrubbing the floor with toothbrushes. unless you were physically laying in it bed to sleep you were standing and you were facing a wall. all day every day? all day every day. when dateline continues. lin have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? 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[coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. because breathing keith morrison: teresa tucker had dispatched her daughter to a religious reform school in a tiny community called teresa tucker had dispatched her daughter to a religious reform school in a tiny community called humansville, missouri. run by stephanie and boyd householder. teresa, did you have any idea what was happening in that place? no, i department. i didn t have no idea. amanda householder, however, did. knew that very well. boyd and stephanie are her parents. was your dad well suited to this kind of work? yes because he was a drill instructor. it was second nature to him to just put people in their place. before he d started working in reform schools, boyd householder had been a marine. a trainer of marines. amanda had idolized her strong, commanding father. when i was like 2 or 3 i was a daddy s little girl. he d take her for drives in his jeep, she said. listen to music together. but things began to change, said amanda when her mother persuaded the ex-drill sergeant to start going to church. there are many versions of christianity, of course. this one? do you remember what the sermons were like or what the preaching was like? a lot of the sermons were a lot based on fear and burning in hell for eternity. and some, she remembers, talked about how to discipline children. how to beat the sin out of them. it was to spare the rod spoil the child. it was through someone he met at church that amanda s dad got his first job at a christian reform school. boyd worked at agape. when amanda was 15 he decided to open his own school only this would be for girls. what was this place like? this physical house, the location? it was just a very run down homely place. she was sent there when she was in tenth grade. what had you been doing? committing crimes or something? i had never committed a crime. my mom found out that i had become sexually active and that i had tried marijuana for the first time. maggie drew arrived in 2007 when she was 15. nobody was smiling. i saw the girls and everybody was so quiet and i was like this is so dismal. what is this? maggie said the girls were afraid from the minute they woke up. it was immediately get up, hurry, hurry. get dressed. get downstairs. for bible study. and then chores. bizarre chores. they had girls scrubbing the floor with toothbrushes. they had the girls wiping walls down. they had us picking weeds in the middle of the heat all day. they would say, you know, the bible says this. the bible says that. no, that is your interpretation of the bible. that s not what the bible really says. but you d talk back like that? no. no. no, no, no. it was yes, ma am. why? because if we did we got punished. punishment. it s right here in the handbook. boyd householder promised to help reform especially difficult children by imposing biblical discipline. it didn t seem so biblical to her. he d sit in his chair like this and be like pushups and they would start doing pushups and it would turn into him going up and kicking their hands out from underneath him. another punishment he called standing on the wall. unless you were physically laying in bed to sleep you were standing and you were facing a wall. all day every day? all day every day you d have to eat like you d be given one of those old school plastic 80s style lunch trays. i watched him walk past people on the wall and just hit their trays and their food would go everywhere. boyd householder denied that. said he didn t knock girls down while they did pushups either. but those weren t the only kind of stories we heard. we spoke to more than a dozen former students and three former staff members whose experiences at circle of hope span more than a decade and all of them told us that boyd householder didn t just subject his students to chores and pushups and other creative punishments. no, they said. he was physically abusive. he would go up behind a girl and grab them by the base of the neck behind their head like this like right up behind your ears almost and he would put a foot out and trip you and shove you, follow down and shove you with force face first. carpet, gravel, the floor of the chicken pen. didn t matter, said maggie. at that point he d put his fist on the side of your head and one in the middle of your back so you couldn t get up. and there was more, said maggie. boyd ordered some of the girls to help. to put their weight on the students pressure points. and they did. it was like one of those things where it s like dog eat dog where if you don t fight your way to the top and do what you re told to do then it s going to come back at you. she found that out the hard way when she tried not to press too hard on the girl she was helping restrain. he dropped his knees on top of my elbows and once he did that and pushed his weight on top of me the girl then started screaming and he looked at me and told me that if she wasn t screaming like that once he let go of me holding her that i was going to be laying next to her until i [ bleep ] myself and said i needed to make decisions of whose side i was on. the householders told us they did restrain students when they were violent but never deliberately inflicted pain. and amanda? well, these girls were her age, some of them. could have been her friends. except amanda wasn t a student. and sometimes she was the one handing out the discipline. i know i had power trips. i know there were certain girls my dad favored over me and i didn t like them so i treated them poorly in the sense that i d be like just push, give me 25. things she did she said things her father wanted her to do. whose side was amanda on? coming up. a stunning new allegation. i was sexually abused. there? yes, sir. when dateline continues. ne a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! keith morrison: on sundays, the students at circle of hope sometimes climbed into a bus on sundays the students at circle of hope sometimes climbed into a bus that drove them the 50 miles down highway 13 to a church with a towering white steeple. berean baptist church. the girls walked inside dressed in their sunday best and church smiles. the smiles were fake, said maggie. we did whatever we had to to make him happy. amanda watched it all. she knew, she said, what the students were hiding. how her dad treated them behind closed doors. what was it like to see your dad punishing other kids? i think that to me is the most traumatizing part, um, because to me it was just normal. amanda told us her dad had never spared her the rod, beating her regularly as a child. using his belt after church. but hearing the girls scream as they were being punished. when you think of souls burning in a lake of fire for eternity, that s what these girls sound like. and the screaming is especially hard to forget, she told us. because she helped her dad. as a 15-year-old i was forced to restrain the girls the same way my dad would. how d that make you feel? i stopped. i refused to go when they yelled restrain. i would always say i have to make lunch or make dinner or i have dishes to do. did you ever tell your dad just go easy? i never had the guts. i never had the guts. when she was 15 she tried running away. failed. her father denied punishing her, but after that she said, things changed for her. i was put on the wall. every time my dad walked past me i was yelled at. couldn t use the bathroom without permission. i wasn t allowed to eat until my parents brought me food. i could not leave the wall outside my dad s office. just standing facing the wall. just standing facing the wall. how long? i think it was two months. amanda was not like the other girls. no one would pick her up and take her away. she counted the days until she was old enough to leave. and in 2009 when she was 17, she moved in with her grandma. then across the country to california. a new life. a fresh start. i had a really good job. i had my own apartment. i was doing everything a person does. even so, she wasn t quite ready to turn her back on her family. not yet anyway. in 2011 after a parent posted negative comments about the school online, it might surprise you who its loudest defender was. you were online defending your parents. i know. right? why were you doing that? i don t know other than i kind of felt guilty that it was my family and so any time that people would say something i just felt i didn t want my dad to go to jail. i don t know how to explain it. there were some stories she never heard back then. she never met ashley tucker. the teenager from feris, texas who arrived at the ranch in 2014. behind closed doors with just us kids, they were monsters. ashley said it was in that culture of fear that the worst thing happened to her. i was sexually abused. there? yes, sir. the boy was amanda s younger brother, she told us. he was 15 at the time. she said it happened while she was doing chores in one of the buildings on the farm. he walked over there, he grabbed me, he pushed me up against one of the walls and he actually ended up raping me right there. what happens to you when that s going on? i felt disgusting. i felt like i was nothing. i felt like i was never going to get out of that place. she told no one. copt tell her mom because she knew when she got calls from home someone was always listening. they would have their like their thumb over the little hang up button. but then a few months into her stay ashley took a chance. she told her mother that she was losing a lot of weight. when she told me that they hung up. so i call back, i m like what s going on. oh, well she s being rebellious. put her back on the phone and that s when ashley said they re starving me. and the phone cut out again. teresa had heard enough. as soon as she could she got in her car and drove from texas to missouri to see for herself what was going on inside that yellow farmhouse. coming up. i m not going to lie. i hated my mom. i hated her. i couldn t stand her. feel guilty? yeah. you know, how could i do this to my child. thinking i was helping her. when dateline continues. ne nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. detect this: living with hiv, craig learned he can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that s why he switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: leo learned that most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don t stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don t take dovato if you re allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: you could stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about dovato. hi, the hour s top stories. israel saying they rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza who had been kidnapped by hamas during the nova music festival on october 7th. officials say more than 200 palestinians were killed by air strikes nearby. marking one of the bloodiest single days in eight months of war. a giant general mouse invasive species of spider is making its way up the east coast. the joro spider has got an lot of attention on social media. scientists say they re nothing to worry about comparing their bite to a bee sting. for now back to dateline. welcome back to dateline. i m craig melvin. ashley tucker said she suffered physical and sexual abuse while attending the circle of hope school. during a call she believed was monitored, ashley informed her mom that she was being starved. teresa immediately hit the road to bring her daughter home and alert the authorities. what happened next would leave this distraught mother stunned. back to keith morrison with broken circle. teresa tucker left her texas home before dawn to reach her daughter s school in rural missouri. ashley, she was sure, was in trouble. teresa had never laid eyes on circle of hope girls ranch before. when we pulled up i was astonished like wow, this is it? she d been so desperate to find ashley somewhere safe she d sent her there on blind faith. she didn t like what she saw. so when ashley came i seen her. take a deep breath. she had lost so much weight. she looked real sick. so i hugged her and told her we re going home. but before they left, said teresa, boyd householder handed her this document. i had to sign a paper that officially stated she was not sexually abused and she was not physically abused there. what a curious thing for a person to have you sign. right. did ashley tell you on the way home what she d been through? it was a very long eight hours. i told her basics. i didn t really go into detail. it was too hard. the householder s son denies ashley s story of rape. she told us as awful as it was, she considers him a victim too. of the world he grew up in. she was, at the time, less forgiving of her own mother. i m not going to lie, i hated my mom. i hated her. i couldn t stand her. i couldn t stand looking at her. feel guilty? yeah. you know, how could i do this to my child. thinking i was helping her. teresa did not want it happening to anyone else. ashley begged her, don t report the alleged rape and so she didn t. but teresa did call child protective services and told them about ashley s other allegations of physical abuse. they stated that they were going to go out and check the facility and all that. once they got back with me they stated that they didn t see anything, there was nothing they could do. teresa contacted the sheriff s office too. same story. nothing happened. what teresa didn t know was that she was far from the first or only person to make a complaint to authorities about the circle of hope. a mother told us she reported the school the year after it opened and as time went on police records show more relatives and students told stories of abuse. about a girl covered in bruises. a run away who said she d been choked by boyd householder and four years later another run away who said boyd had grabbed her by the throat. and several times child protective services went out to visit, except. i was told if i said anything negative that my life was going to be made miserable. boyd coached the girls before they talked to cps investigators. they were sure he was listening, she said. eavesdropping from his office on the other side of the wall. i remember being asked like are people being starved and i was like no. i was literally terrified about what would happen to me if i was going to start being the person that was starved next because nothing ever came out of these. amanda told us her parents had another way of handling investigators too. i was told when cps came down stairs to take the girls outside and basically hide the girls from cps. you hid the girls from the authorities who would check on whether or not they were okay? yes. you know your parents said they had an open door policy with cps that they could come any old time. was that not the case? cps could come in but like i said i had to hide them. amanda s parents denied that. said they never hid students from cps. they said they told the girls to be honest with investigators. in any case, none of the reports ever resulted in any action. the school prospered and parents like teresa had no way of knowing about the complaints over the years. we have no regulations on any religious facilities in the state of missouri. none? none. none. not at all. keri ingle is a missouri state representative and former social worker. do these places even have to register with the state? no. we have no ability currently to even know about their existence. so i couldn t even tell you how many of these institutions exist in the state of missouri. they re invisible. correct. until something bad happens. and it s not just missouri. a 2021 nbc news investigation found gaps in regulation around the country with at least 21 states that did not require religious boarding schools to tell their education departments that they exist. so who is looking out for these kids? currently? yeah. i would say that there s been a lot of buck passing. systems once entrenched, cruel ones especially, can seem unbeatable. impervious to change. and then one little thing like the first crack in a dam. coming up. fresh allegations of abuse from boys. i d watch him grab students and chuck them into a wall. grab them by the neck and slam them on the rocks outside.. when dateline continues. lin m becomes a pursuit. and with vitiligo, the pursuit for your pigment is no exception. it s time you had a proven choice to help restore what s yours. opzelura is the first and only fda-approved prescription treatment for nonsegmental vitiligo. proven to help repigment skin over time. restoring what s yours. it s possible with a steroid-free cream that you can apply yourself. opzelura can lower your ability to fight infections including tb or hepatitis b or c. serious lung infections, skin cancer, blood clots, and low blood cell counts occurred with opzelura. in people taking jak inhibitors, serious infections, increased risk of death, lymphoma, other cancers, and major cardiovascular events have occurred. the most common side effects were acne and itching where applied. repigmentation is possible. ask your dermatologist today about starting or refilling opzelura. pursue it. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions. like what is your glucose and can you have more carbs? before you decide with the freestyle libre 3 system know your glucose and where it s heading no fingersticks needed. now the world s smallest and thinnest sensor sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. the #1 cgm prescribed in the u.s. try it for free at freestylelibre.us stay ahead of your moderate-to-severe eczema. and show off clearer skin and less itch with dupixent, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, that helps heal your skin from within. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don t change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. ask your eczema specialist keith morrison: amanda householder was living in the california desert. she had her own babies now, a new family. amanda householder was living in the california desert. she had her own babies now. a new family. she wasn t much interested in her old one. why didn t you use your own name on social media? i was constantly getting hit up by girls that left circle of hope telling me about what was going on and i didn t want to hear it any more. i was just didn t want to know. yeah. there are some things you cannot escape. in 2016 or 17, i got a message from a girl who i had never heard of. and in the message she s telling me my dad raped her. and i m like no. and yet, the message made her think back to a letter written years before. the words of another angry student. i was there when my dad got this letter and it basically accused my dad of molesting her. and at that time i was like, that didn t happen. like i know my dad. that didn t happen. that letter writer was maggie drew who d come to circle of hope at 15 and stayed for five years. boyd said it never happened. but now all these years later amanda needed to know. had maggie been telling the truth. and she said i know you have no reason to lie to me, like just be honest. maggie who had never told her story to police told amanda how boyd had groped her in his private office she turned 18. and he d grab my butt or grab my boob from the side and he started trying to kiss me. amanda was devastated. she hadn t always agreed with how her dad ran the school, but this was worse than anything she d imagined. she apologized to maggie for not believing her all those years ago. you re okay. i know. you re okay. i m glad you wrote the letter though. i m really glad because that letter is how i started just thinking. amanda started thinking about all of it. how her parents had raised her. what she said she saw them do to the children at circle of hope. it wasn t until i had my own kids that i realized what was going on was happening to other peoples kids. and she wanted to make things right. she and maggie decided to track down the girls of circle of hope, as many as they could. listen to their stories. ask if they were okay. it was a big thing for a lot of them to honestly in a safe space speak their truth. it wasn t just kids at circle of hope who had stories about her father. amanda began hearing from former students of agape, the boys religious reform school where her dad used to work. colton remembered him very well. i d watch him grab students and chuck them into a wall. grab them by the neck and slam them on the rocks outside. boyd denied that. but amanda listened and remembered her childhood at agape. watching boys being dragged off to a room known as the padded palace. when you open the door it would go into a weird dark carpeted room. that was the restrain room. all you would see is later these boys were being drug back down from this room and they re all bloody and bruised. we talked to a dozen former agape students and four former employees who told us they witnessed staff mistreating kids over a number of years. agape did not respond to our requests for comment. on its website it states its staff doesn t participate in corporal punishment. they have all been trained in proper restraining techniques. colton insisted he was beaten there. years ago and tried to report it to a sheriff s deputy who picked him up. i tried to tell him like man, they re beating us and he didn t listen. cuffed me up, put me in the back of the car and dropped me off back at agape. never saw cps. nothing. and the cop didn t believe you. no. agape, like circle of hope was seen in the community as doing good work. helping troubled kids. amanda said it wasn t unusual to see deputies hanging out at circle of hope. sometimes doing target practice with her dad. maggie said boyd boasted about it. they had ties with all the cops in the area. we ran away or said anything we d be immediately brought back and nobody would believe us. it was hard for amanda to imagine they would listen to her now. hard to understand how her dad s school continued to operate. in 2018, investigators from missouri s department of social services issued two findings of abuse against amanda s dad. one for physical abuse and one for sexual abuse. but remember, the religious school wasn t registered with any state agency. there was no license to suspend. no agency to go shut it down. this facility continued to operate. is, i mean it flies in the face of everything we know about child welfare policy. so girls kept arriving at circle of hope. what could amanda do? and then, a few unguarded seconds caught on tape. and that dam with the crack in it gave way. coming up. knock her out. yes, sir. i mean it. the tiktok video that triggered a fire storm. when dateline continues. when dateline continues. 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( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. keith morrison: amanda s dad, boyd householder, the man she once idolized, is now a man she amanda s dad. boyd householder. the man she once idolized was now a man she was determined to shut down. if cps and the police weren t going to do t amanda decided, she d fight back her way. this soft spoken daughter went where she knew people talk the loudest. social media. tiktok. if you ever suffered extreme abuse due to spare the rod spoil the child. a platform known more for its stunts and jokes than what she had in mind. i want you to know that i tee you survivor. she posted interviews with former students. answered strangers questions. no, i do not. i absolutely do not regret it. assembled her case against her parents. day after day. we need to let the whole united states know what boyd and stephanie are capable of. and millions noticed. especially after she posted this. a 21 second video recorded by a family friend inside circle of hope on his cell phone. knock her out. yes, sir. i mean it. the voice you can hear is boyd householder s. he s telling his students to hit one of the other kids. knock her out. yes, sir. and that goes for any of the rest of you. if she clenches her fist like she s going to hit you, that s a threat. knock her out. yes, sir. knock her out. what s it like to hear that? even now. hearing his voice in that tone made me sick to my stomach. but seeing the video, i felt like i was right back at their house. that scene is exactly what happens every single time. my mom is in the background like nothing is going on playing with her dogs like oh you cute little thing and my dad is just going off like nothing. yes, sir. yes, sir. all of the little yes, sirs. if you don t say yes, sir, you can be slapped across the face. you have to say yes, sir. wow. knock her out. 21 seconds that struck a nerve. i was floored by the amount of support and like sharing and viewing that was like from the tiktok video. and i was like, they re listening. people are actually listening to us for once. including a sheriff s deputy. after watching the video, he messaged amanda. there are some people that want to help. these girls deserve to have their complaints investigated properly. that deputy s boss is cedar county sheriff james mccrary. what was it about the tiktok video that struck such a nerve? well the allegations, some of the allegations were pretty serious. serious enough the sheriff said to launch a brand new investigation. his deputy went back and compiled all those years of complaints that had never gone anywhere. amanda connected him with former students and staff. he put together a case file. is that a fairly thick file? yeah, it s about five inches thick probably. are you seeing a pattern of behavior on the part of the people running that particular school? well it seems to be that way, yes. having said that, i think we need to be patient and see where this investigation takes us. the sheriff s investigation was just the beginning. in august 2020, authorities removed two dozen girls from the school. two weeks later state investigators descended with their own search warrant and soon after missouri s attorney general agreed to assist the local prosecutor with his investigation. why did it take so long? you know over the years we took several of the reports, the complaints to the prosecutor s office. any idea why they didn t proceed with any, you know, any further action? my belief and what possibly occurred is some of the alleged victims may have been afraid to tell us what was going on. if anyone thought that the sheriff s department was somehow protecting these schools when it knew that things were happening in there that wasn t good for these students, if somebody thought that would they be wrong? they would be wrong, yes, sir. finally in september 2020, amanda got the news she d been hoping for. her parents shuttered circle of hope for good. how d it feel to you to see girls were being pulled out of a place and eventually it was closed down? happy. what does it say to you that it takes a tiktok video to finally get authorities to move to protect children? it tells me that the system is very flawed. something representative keri ingle tried to fix. she introduced a bill requiring religious schools to register and be held accountable if they re found abusing kids. in july 2021, missouri governor mike parsons signed the bill into law. several of the householder s former students sought accountability too. five jane does filed civil lawsuits against boyd and stephanie householder. two accused boyd of sexual assault. in a written statement the householders told us the great majority of their hundreds of students benefited from what they called their christian- based discipline program and school. while they denied liability, the couple settled the complaints for an undisclosed amount. in march of 2021, boyd and stephanie householder were both arrested. the missouri attorney general s office filed more than 100 criminal charges against them. boyd himself faces nearly 80 felony charges. including multiple counts for statutory rape and sodomy. they have both pleaded not guilty and are awaiting trial. as for one of their most vocal critics, their daughter amanda. the householders told us they d been estranged from her since 2014. your parents did an interview to one of the local papers. they said you are addicted to drugs, that you re a satan worshiper. what do you say to things like that? when i turned 18 and i was on my own i did experiment with drugs. i m not going to lie. when i had my kids that changed. one of the things said in the newspaper article was people who are complaining about the school they ve been failures in their lives and you re a failure in your life and you re blaming them. you need somebody to blame. i may not be successful in the sense that i am a millionaire, but my kids are happy. my kids don t have to fear me. to me i m successful. and she told us she s not done speaking out. in the fall of 2020, she led a march to the gates of agape, the boys school where her dad worked years ago. it s time that we bring awareness to agape. awareness, yes. and accountability too. in 2022, the missouri department of social services said it substantiated multiple allegations of physical abuse against the school s former director. no criminal charges were filed. three staff members also pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault charges. another employee, a school physician, is facing child sex crime charges. he pleaded not guilty. finally, in january 2023, agape announced it was closing its doors. a school spokesperson said the decision was voluntary and due solely to a lack of finances. it s been painful, amanda told us, this reckoning with her father and her own past. she said she hopes it mattered for former students like ashley tucker. ashley kicked her drug addiction and plans to become a paramedic. she s a mother herself now. and calls her daughter her angel. now you know how your mom felt about you. yeah. now i realize that, you know, she was you trying to help me. amanda does not expect to reconcile with her parents any time soon. do you miss them at all? i miss what i wanted to have happen. like what i i would never go back, but i think what i m trying to say is i just miss something i never had. what she has instead is a cause to help those kids she once knew. and the others coming after them and to forgive herself as well. that s all for this edition of dateline. i m craig melvin. thank you for watching. ank you i m andrea canning, and this is dateline. vehe had gone off the road into this creek bed. they tetold me this vehicle had gone off the road intohis creek bed. she s got severe injuries to her head. little did you know the mystery that was about to
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[theme music] welcome to violent earth. i m liev schreiber. 2023 set an all time record for weather and climate related disasters in the us. 28 events with losses over $1 billion. wildfires, hurricanes, and floods are more frequent than ever. the earth is changing. tonight, we delve into one of the most powerful natural hazards in the world, tornadoes. terrifying vortexes unleashed from thunderstorms that can cause unimaginable destruction. few examples of their power are more definitive than the 2011 twister that hit joplin, missouri. categorized as an ef5, the highest level possible, with maximum winds over 200 miles per hour, the tornado cut right through the center of the city. storm chaser: oh my gosh. oh my gosh. jim riek: late may is the bull s eye in the midwest for tornadoes. joplin was under a risk of a tornado, but not a great risk. storm chaser: that is a tornado, people. there was a complex of storms that came toward the city. oh my gosh. the tornado formed just outside of the joplin city limits. storm chaser: listen to it! jim riek: and then it just started racing into joplin. [indistinct shouting] all the alarms are going off on my computer, and here it comes. storm chaser: there! storm chaser: i see it. i see it. just straight through the heart of joplin, missouri. storm chaser: oh gosh, that is a monster tornado. i couldn t really see anything because it was obscured by rain. jim riek: it was rain rain. i think that s why so many people died. they did not realize that what they were seeing was the tornado. in this case, an ef5 tornado that is catastrophic. and by the time they did, it s too late. jeff piotrowski: as the tornado went by, everything was gone. it was like a bulldozer, and it leveled everything in its path. kat piotrowski: i just couldn t believe what i was seeing, the millions and millions of pieces of debris. jim riek: the tornado was on the ground for 32 minutes. storm chaser: the sirens are going. jim riek: it hits a convenience store on east 20th street. they had locked it just so the door wouldn t fling open. jim riek: listen to the audio. [screaming, rain pounding] jeff piotrowski: as the tornado entered the center part of the city, it hit the high school, and that s where the max damage occurred. jim riek: that surveillance video from the high school is no more than a hundred yards from amber munson s house. donna kerry: in 2011, amber was 40 years old. amber has always been amber, just always generous and kind and hospitable and just fun to be around. amber was home that afternoon. she wasn t aware that the tornado was coming. she didn t have her tv on and no indicators that it was gonna be that severe. i had spoken to her. she said, oh, it s just turned really dark here. and then she said, um, now the sirens are going off. and that s when i said, you know, go take the quilt off the top of your bed and get in your bathtub. i said, and then call me back. very few houses in joplin, particularly in the path of what turned out to be this tornado, had basements. so the best place to go is either a closet or in your bathtub. harold brooks: you wanna get as low as you can and put as many walls between you and the tornado as possible. storm chaser: oh gosh. i was concerned when she said the sirens were going off. i wouldn t even have imagined the magnitude of what was gonna come. jim riek: amber munson, probably 15 seconds before the tornado hit, realized just how bad it was going to be. and bang. the tornado hit. for tornadoes to form, you have to have a certain set of ingredients. first of all, you have to have moisture available for thunderstorms to develop. you have to have a source of lift or a trigger for those thunderstorms to get going. you have to have unstable air, which is temperatures that get colder with height and that allows the thunderstorm to rise and develop vertically. the most important ingredient is you have to have wind shear, which is changing of wind direction with height and also changing wind speeds with height. there s all sorts of different shapes tornadoes can take. we have a stovepipe, which is kind of like a straight up and down type tornado. we have obviously a cone. that makes sense. it s a cone shape. another one is the wedge, and that s usually the most intense. different tornadoes have different smells. when a tornado is going through a densely wooded area, you can smell the fresh cut wood, the fresh cut pine, whatever the tree is. paul markowski: the typical widths are anywhere from probably 25 to 50 yards across on the low end to, on the high end, a mile wide. tim marshall: the largest one i ve ever seen was the el reno, oklahoma tornado, and that was over two miles wide. kim klockow mcclain: the joplin tornado became a mile wide wedge right on the edge of town. kat piotrowski: the tornado was massive. it was chewing up everything in its path. there was no mercy at all. er: breaking news here at cnn. joplin, missouri, suffering the devastation right now of a very powerful tornado. jim riek: amber lived in what i would call a very middle class area of joplin. jeff piotrowski: this beautiful, quaint subdivision, and now it s level. kat piotrowski: it was just total devastation. our phone rang, and it was her, and she was screaming, mother, my house is on top of me. that s when i said, amber, that s not funny, because we would always kid back and forth. and she said, no, mom, my house is on top of me. and then her phone went dead. so there s a lot of myths that have been passed down through the years. reporter: doors and windows on the north and east sides were open. trent okerson: whenever i was growing up, i heard you ve got to open up the windows to equalize the air pressure. well, pressure is not what will cause damage to a home. it s wind getting up under the roof, blowing the roof off. another big misconception is if you re out in a vehicle, that an overpass is a great place to take shelter. that is not a good place to go. scientists have realized that being in that overpass creates a bit of a wind tunnel effect, that the wind is blowing through a smaller area so it can actually accelerate the wind speeds. so you re putting yourself in greater danger. kim klockow mcclain: there s a really popular misconception that mobile homes are like tornado attractors, and what s behind that is undoubtedly that people hear about mobile homes getting hit more because that s where people die. harold brooks: roughly half of the deaths in tornadoes occur in mobile and manufactured homes. they re much more vulnerable to a tornado and tend to turn into debris quicker. there are myths that tornadoes can t cross bodies of water. oh, tornadoes can t go through cities. jeff piotrowski: but there are no rules when it comes to tornadoes. they go where they wanna go. harold brooks: the deadliest tornado in us history is march 18, 1925, the tri-state tornado that went across southeastern missouri, southern illinois into southwestern indiana, and it killed 695 people over about a two and a half hour long period. generally, after the tri-state tornado, we see, like, a 10-fold decrease in the fatality rate from tornadoes as compared to 1925. we think there are a lot of things that could be going on behind that. there was the emergence of radio and people downstream could hear about it immediately. radar has had something to do with this, increases in our understanding of storms, and now the ability to push warnings to people on their cell phones. harold brooks: but the may 22, 2011 tornado at joplin, missouri, was the deadliest tornado in decades in the united states. being the seventh deadliest in us history. jim riek: on that day, it didn t matter what type of forecasting skills you had, what technology. the tornado won. [dramatic music] jeff piotrowski: everything basically was a three foot, four foot pile of debris everywhere as far as the eye could see. just debris everywhere. there s really nothing standing. donna kerry: in her immediate neighborhood, there were 16 people that perished. jim riek: jeff piotrowski sees a lady who is hysterical, has no idea what has happened to her. and that s amber munson. you could hear amber before you saw her, and that s what i remember more than anything is hearing her cries out. amber munson: can i use your phone? jeff piotrowski: what? kat piotrowski: and coming towards us. jeff piotrowski: yeah, all the phones are jammed. kat piotrowski: jeff jumped out of the car immediately and raced towards her. i m ok. i m ok. jeff piotrowski: come here. come here. hello? hello? how did she survive? amber munson: once the tornado sirens went off and the lights started flickering, i grabbed a pillow and a blanket and my phone and i jumped into the bathtub. i decided to roll over on my right side and i kind of got into a fetal position and covered myself up. but as the pressure started coming, the bath started bouncing. so it was very minor at first, not realizing that you re gonna get sucked out of your house. after the tornado hit, i remember hearing the glass shatter, but i don t remember flying in the tornado. amber munson went flying, ended up in someone else s yard. amber munson: when i woke up, i just remember being upside down, buried within the rubble. i knew i was alive, but i still questioned whether or not i was gonna survive because of the stuff that was falling on me. i think just wanting to survive kicked in for her. i kind of wiggled myself out so that i could get up, and that s when i got out of the hole. i had twisted my knee and i had a puncture wound in my back. but she s alive. it was a miracle. amber munson: the joplin tornado, having lived through it, made me realize that people don t take them serious enough. you see people that go stand on the front porch wanting to capture these things, not realizing how risky they really can be. storm chaser: oh, we got lightning. a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! trent okerson: storm chasing has gotten extremely popular over the past couple of decades. storm chaser: get the best footage. harold brooks: people do it, in large part, for the thrill and for the excitement of seeing the event. storm chaser: tornado number one. tornado number two. the original tornado is still on the ground. tim marshall: once you get out there and you see a storm in the open plains and the amazing structure that it has, it s mesmerizing, and it can become even addicting. storm chaser: my goodness. that is a thing of beauty and violence. max olson: there s a side to it that s almost like a hunter, because you re trying to narrow down where in the country this relatively rare phenomenon is gonna take place. storm chaser: come on. tim marshall: now there are thousands of people who do this. there s even tour groups nowadays, and you can get in a van and go with a group of fellow enthusiasts and drive out onto the plains and see the majestic skies. allison chinchar: in the united states, we average more than 1,200 tornadoes per year. that is number one in the world by a long shot. the second closest is canada, which only gets 100 per year. you could actually add canada, australia, and all european countries combined, and we still see more than they do. tornadoes are most common in the midwest. max olson: we also have another area that s really prone to tornadoes in our southeastern states. harold brooks: the tornado season depends on where you are in the country. in the plains, tornado season is typically over a relatively short period of time in the springtime. in the southeastern united states, tornadoes are more likely to occur at any time of the year. tornadoes actually can and do strike all over the country. tim marshall: tornadoes have been known to be in every state of the us. they have been in the highest of mountains, beaches, and offshore. harold brooks: over the last 50 years, what we ve seen has been an increase in the number of tornadoes in what we think of as the mid-south. it looks like it s associated with physical changes in the atmosphere, but we don t have a real underlying reason of why that s occurred. reporter: a rare sight in the skies over japan. a powerful twister ripping across the eastern part of the nation. tornadoes occur worldwide. jeff piotrowski: europe has tornadoes. south america has tornadoes. australia, japan. trent okerson: but the united states has a unique combination of geographical features that can lend itself to a lot of tornadoes. the gulf of mexico, that provides the very warm, humid air. then you also get cooler, drier air that s either coming down from canada or off the rockies. there s really no other place in the world that has the exact combination of ingredients like we do here in the united states. storm chaser: zoom in. storm chasing has definitely evolved into this kind of social media era. storm chaser: where are we? northeast nebraska? max olson: and people wanna be seen. they wanna be, you know, the chaser that everybody thinks of, doing the live streams, posts in front of a tornado and whatnot. trent okerson: storm chasing is a double edged sword. it s very valuable when it comes to learning more about the science behind storms, but it can also be dangerous if you re not 100% sure of what you re doing. the biggest danger of storm chasing has always been the driving. storm chaser: let s go back. we re going back. we re going back. you tend to judge where the tornado is going, but that doesn t always happen. there are so many people who chase now on some storms that traffic is actually a serious problem. when i m chasing out in the plains, i m apt to see dozens of other chasers. when i began storm chasing, there were no other chasers. tim marshall: david hoadley, whether he likes it or not, is the father of modern day storm chasing. max olson: david hoadley is the first person to truly go out and seek tornadoes, driving long distances, attempting to come up with some sort of formula to see tornadoes. he holds the record for the longest consecutive years of storm chasing. i ve been storm chasing 66 years, and i ve seen 265 tornadoes. i saw my first tornado in 1958. i think this is one of the things that appealed to me was the element of, really, mystery. what causes these storms? there was so much that was unknown. 2023, i saw david hoadley out chasing. the man s 85 years old. he s been doing it for most of his life, and he s still out there doing it every single year. david hoadley: it s not like spelunking or surfboarding. you can return to the ocean. you can climb the mountains again and again and again. but that one tornado, that one storm, once it s gone, it s out. it s history. to have a picture of it, have a video or anything else of it, is to say that i ve captured something that will never happen again. tornadoes are most common 4:00 to 8:00 pm. because that s when the atmosphere is warmest, you get the sunshine, heats things up, creates the most instability. that instability is fuel for thunderstorms. mason lillard: may 22, normal sunday. we went fishing for a little bit and we were getting ready to take my cousin lage home. i was 10 and lage was 14, and my grandpa was like, hey, i need some wiring for my garage at home depot. i would say probably around 5:00, 5:15-ish, the sky s starting to get a little kind of weird looking. my grandpa went inside of home depot and my cousin, my grandma, and myself were all sitting in the truck. we heard the sirens go off, but we just ignored them like normal. and then all of a sudden it went from kind of dark to, like, midnight black, almost. we were trying to open up the doors of the truck and the winds were just going too fast. and then my cousin, he was like, whoa, the truck s tearing up. and then at that moment, the truck flipped on its side and got sucked into the vortex. we could kind of hear everything, like the hail hitting the truck and stuff. it felt terrifying to be in that tornado. you see, like, the wizard of oz, and it s almost like that. but in real life, it s loud and you don t know what s going on. lage was sucked out of the truck. i felt like i was slipping out of the truck. i was holding on to my grandma s hand, and then i felt the truck land, like, the tires bounce. and i was like, ok. i m alive, at least. all i felt was, like, my ribs were broken. i realized that something was actually in me. most people are killed in tornadoes by flying debris. storm chaser: that s the most violent motion. kim klockow mcclain: tornadoes consist of anything the tornado brings into the air. so often a lot of dust and dirt and plants, branches. and then if it s a more violent tornado, that can include debris like planks of wood, shards of glass. mason lillard: i hear my grandma. lage, lage. and i was like, mama, i hear him. he was outside of the truck. it wasn t like a, i m here, or i m ok. it was moaning. storm chaser: oh, no. there are the lines. oh my god. oh my god. look at that. harold brooks: one of the things about a tornado is that it s producing a lot of small pieces of debris that are flying at, you know, 150 miles an hour. and even ordinary objects, dinner plates, two by fours, become really, really deadly at those kinds of high speeds. jim riek: i knew after joplin how destructive a tornado could be. it was moving so slowly that it was like a blender. everything on the ground was getting totally mixed together. and it just hits you again and again and again and again. i saw a piece of cardboard that actually penetrated into the exterior insulation finish system on a school. at the hospital, they had $1 million helicopter. all of the rotors are gone. if a rotor of a helicopter is flying by at 100 miles an hour, what is that going to do to a human body? paul markowski: how far the debris goes is going to depend on essentially how heavy it is. the heavier stuff gets centrifuged out, so big chunks of structures or automobiles. lighter debris, though, like a piece of paper, that won t get centrifuged out. that ll instead go up through the funnel, can end up reaching altitudes of 40, 50,000 feet, and there certainly testimonials out there, people finding pieces of paper or photographs 50 to 100 miles from their origin in the wake of a tornado. mason lillard: we thought it was only, like, 20 minutes before help arrived. it ended up almost being two hours. jim riek: when the paramedics came, they spotted lage first because he s outside. they carried lage out on a two by four, and they brought him to the ambulance, and the paramedic jumped out and said he s not gonna make it. the other ones were trying to cut me out. i had a one inch piece of angle iron go through my right shoulder, break seven ribs, puncture my lower lung, and come out my back. a fourth inch away from my spine and a fourth inch away from my liver. they ended up having to use an electric saw. it felt like 5,000 bees stinging me at one time. and i had arrived sitting on the stretcher, sitting up. once they took my cousin to the hospital, they black tagged him and put him in the morgue. left him for death. a nurse came in and she touched his arm and he let out a horrifying scream, and she grabbed a doctor, said, i think we can save him. two hours later, he was in the or. after the tornado, i had 13 surgeries in total over the course of three years. lage was on the ventilator for at least two weeks. he has a brace on his leg and he can t really use his right arm. but he did survive. the may 22, 2011 tornado killed 158 people directly, and there were three indirect deaths. we did not know that we could experience tornadoes this deadly in modern times. harold brooks: nighttime tornadoes are more dangerous than the same tornado in the daytime, for a lot of reasons. we ascribe this to the fact that people are just less aware at night. [ominous music] i was chasing that day. what was that? oh, i think i see it. i start to see the shape of the tornado come into view. i know this is a significant tornado. oh, wow. that is huge. holy [bleep] ok. ok. ok. we got it. and then i just see the tornado, an absolute beast marching off to the northeast. ah, man, it s moving towards populated area now. it was headed from one small community to another small community, and we knew, based on where this was going, if you draw a line, it s coming right to mayfield. the mayfield event was moving at the upper end of tornado speeds, 60, 65 miles an hour. this was something that is very high end. harold brooks: speed certainly can play an impact on how dangerous a tornado is. a faster tornado is gonna give you less time to react. the speed at which the tornado is going to move along is going to roughly match the speed that the parent thunderstorm s moving along. in some cases, we ve seen storms move as fast as 60, 70, 80 miles per hour because they re embedded in very strong winds. allison chinchar: there is one example of a man in illinois back in 2013. he s filming a tornado that is off in the distance, but he quickly realizes it s actually headed right towards him and his home. man: all right. i got to go. i m coming, honey. woman: [screams] man: aw, man. woman: oh my god! allison chinchar: about 45 seconds later, he gets the look at the scope of the damage that s been done to his house. man: oh my god. our house is freaking destroyed. kim klockow mcclain: the survivors i ve spoken with, they just experience what feels like a building dissolving. one minute i was in a building and the next minute i just wasn t. like a bomb has hit it. it s obliterated. [ominous music] derek vaughan: so at its maximum intensity, the peak winds were up to 190 miles per hour. that s enough to just destroy anything in its path. nothing can stand up to that. you knew people were gonna lose their lives that night. once the tornado approached mayfield, it came in from the southwest side of town. derek vaughan: i had a few officers on shift with me that night. we had decided that we were gonna go ahead and meet at the police department. the services all started going down suddenly. the power in the entire town went off. and of course, when that happened, we knew that it was probably about to hit. i remember officer simpson went to the front window and he just yelled, there s debris coming in. and as i watched him turn and run towards us, the whole front of the building just exploded inward on us. you almost couldn t even tell which way it was up, there was much wind and debris. it was almost like being underwater. trent okerson: mayfield water and electric, their facility was just on the edge of the worst damage path. even there, you saw the massive amounts of debris that was blowing, pieces of wood flying through the air like missiles, and they weren t even directly in the core of that tornado. one of the buildings that was close to the police department that got hit real hard was the f&b bank right there on the court square. and all of a sudden, boom. the tornado hits. it s that fast. trent okerson: the candle factory is a major employer in mayfield. this was right before christmas, and a lot of people that were working extra hours trying to do overtime, and their facility was packed that friday night. autumn kirks: i was working at mcp, the candle factory, that night. me and joe did work together at the factory. usually they try not to put couples together, but for some reason, we ve always made it work. he was so goofy. he d do anything to put a smile on anybody s face. kim klockow mcclain: the night of the storm, the couple were sheltering together when the tornado hit the candle factory. i didn t hear a single thing at all. all i heard was people talking. and then all of a sudden someone said, take cover. brad copeland: the best way i can describe it would be a war zone. i remember thinking the amount of force that could have caused that, you know, how could anybody survive what i was looking at. autumn kirks: joe and i were 10 feet from each other when it first hit. trent okerson: kyanna parsons was an employee there at the candle factory, and kyanna goes on facebook live that night to try to get help from the outside. storm chaser: there s two of them. in 2011, we saw one of those generational tornado outbreaks that doesn t happen in our country but every couple decades. storm chaser: oh, dude, that looks wild. storm chaser: oh, it s right there. that s that tornado right there. storm chaser: [bleep] harold brooks: april 27, there end up being a number of storms that produce tornadoes from central mississippi eastward through alabama. and many of those storms produced multiple tornadoes. just in the state of alabama there were 62 tornadoes that hit that day. seems that every hour that passes today, the news out of the south just gets worse. kim klockow mcclain: after the alabama outbreak, there was kind of a renaissance in our field because we hadn t experienced an event that deeply catastrophic in so long. there were hundreds of fatalities, and we hadn t lost that many people in a tornado outbreak since 1974. storm chaser: oh my god. harold brooks: one of the silver linings of the april 27 outbreak was an understanding that we need to do a whole lot more work on social science with respect to forecasting. i describe myself as a tornado epidemiologist. it s really someone who tries to understand the circumstances that lead someone to be injured or die from something. what are the factors that explain fatalities, and what kinds of interventions can we design, whether in our communication system or structurally in our communities, to help mitigate that threat? among the things studied was the amount of time given to warn the public about tornadoes. a tornado warning is issued when a storm is either actively producing a tornado or it looks really likely to. and we re starting to explore what is the right amount of lead time to give people. what they figured out was there is such a thing as too much lead time. if you give people too much time, say, it s going to be 20 minutes before the tornado arrives, many people will look out their window and see that it s still blue skies. the storm hasn t gotten there yet, and either they think they have more time than they do or they think the storm isn t really going to hit them. so there is such a thing as too much lead time. also what they re studying is how people react to the warning they re given. kim klockow mcclain: fear is a really challenging component of this entire equation. there has been no example i ve seen that is clearer of this fear effect than what happened in oklahoma in 2013. on may 20, we had the tornado that went through oklahoma city and moore and killed 24 people, including several children at a school. and after that, we had just days and days of storms and everyone was just on edge. and when may 31, 2013, a two mile wide tornado hit el reno just west of oklahoma city, we saw spontaneous mass evacuation ahead of that tornado. highways were clogged for over 30 miles. they found out because of fear, people actually did the opposite of what they re supposed to do. they fled their homes. they fled their businesses, places that normally would have been safe. when that happens in mass, that becomes very dangerous. you end up getting stuck in traffic as a tornado hits. reporter: and we re still waiting to hear word on what happened to the 110 people who were inside this candle factory. derek vaughan: once we were able to get down there and assist, i saw that this whole building was just gone. so one of the things that you ll notice if you see kyanna s facebook video was how resilient she was and her efforts to stay positive. kyanna parsons: i was under the rubble approximately about three hours. i see one of the rescue people, and i m crying. i m like, please don t leave me. he says, no, no, no, we re not gonna leave you. a trooper that was at the top grabbed my arm and he pulled. and so got out, and every step i made, there was someone grabbing my hand, someone grabbing my hand, and just there for me. autumn kirks: it felt like a wall on top of me and the three girls next to me. and i don t know who it was, but somebody came and lifted it up and got us all out. the minute i actually got out, i fell to my knees and just broke because i had no idea where joe was. i wanted to go back and look for him. i was told i was not allowed. it hit friday night, and at 9:30 monday morning his mom called me. she s like, autumn, they found him. i m like and i had hope for all of two seconds. she s like, autumn, he didn t make it. i wish i could go back to not knowing because there was hope that, hey, they might still find him. i just i pray that nobody else has to go through this. trent okerson: we have so much technology, we have the ability to control so much in our lives these days. you still can t control mother nature. you can t control a tornado. you can t control what it does. and no matter how prepared you may be, you re still at the mercy of what these storms decide to do. autumn kirks: i have a very healthy respect for mother nature and tornadoes and what they can do. it can ruin your entire life. it can destroy everything you know. in 2011, after the joplin tornado, amber munson had lost her house, most of her possessions, and all of her treasured photographs. but months later, a miracle. there was a craigslist post from a stranger over 50 miles away who had found a photograph in their yard. it was a picture sucked up by the tornado. a baby photo of amber. the only one to survive. the woman mailed it back to amber along with $5,
you re still at the mercy of what these storms decide to do. autumn kirks: i have a very healthy respect for mother nature and tornadoes and what they can do. it can ruin your entire life. it can destroy everything you know. in 2011, after the joplin tornado, amber munson had lost her house, most of her possessions, and all of her treasured photographs. but months later, a miracle. there was a craigslist post from a stranger over 50 miles away who had found a photograph in their yard. it was a picture sucked up by the tornado. a baby photo of amber. the only one to survive. the woman mailed it back to amber along with $5, all she could afford, but wanted to give to help amber start her life over. and with $5, well, she could afford it, wanted to give to help amber start her life over for more information on what you can do in a tornado and what you can do to help combat the growing climate crisis go to cnn.com violent earth i m liev schreiber. thanks for watching. goodnight the listeners as it were the kgb, who had pulled the surveillance equipment lived on the floor above us. and in moscow and you knew they were then on the whole ones just intuitive i mean, i remember my wife and i had some kind of argument about where we could take the children for a weekend picnic in another and manly were, hey, i addressed the silina said, well, you up there, which we agree. and to my amazement, within about two or three hours, somebody had slipped in a note under our front door saying, well, you had agreed on costco vogue or cheerios over whatever was erase some some picnic place i felt that was a kgb surveillance who had a good sense of humor actually this is the unseen story of the cold war but not by politicians that by secret agents there was complete misunderstanding on either side. it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust as the soviet union faces off with the west in the early 1980s to spies play a dangerous game from the shadows they seek to win the upper hand while the world stands on the brink of nuclear war these are their stories in their own words testimony piece together from interviews over the years after 11 years of sigurd worth maybe i developed paranoia and never before heard recordings molten five go up adapting mod getter has been in service i understand the two nadh while catch-all that reveal the deadly intrigues at the heart of the battle between east and west look this is a war a secret war meant at tool was a time when people in soviet union s still believe reality of nuclear war confrontation between west and east was very serious sometimes it was not only iron curtains, it was like iron sphere this is a dangerous moment for the soviet union. almost 40 years into the cold war their economy is overstretched. the military entrenched in afghanistan, and support for communism in decline. the soviet leadership led by leonid brezhnev stockpiles nuclear arms in a show of strength against the west but there s a much subtler weapon to secret intelligence yuri andropov is the head of the soviet intelligence service. the kgb kgb have been running the rational life for years under opa was getting more and more convinced of the menacing was he was a full-blown kgb person who thought that it s either us or them. and basically better be your and drop-off concludes that the superpowers are on the verge of a nuclear war and so he begins a process of collecting information there would be indicators of the approach of nuclear war. this running tally of signs is called operation riyadh and every time andropov gets new intelligence, he takes note there was a chart four american said this the breadths said that somebody was caught here and the plane cross that border and i think and then drop up his mind. he was absolutely convinced nuclear confrontation is coming once this chart is full, andropov is convinced the soviet union should strive and so he uses every resource to keep close watch on his adversaries. being a skilled intelligence officer a spike the life was exciting it for thrilling it was romantic i was thrilled by being involved in specific kgb operation. so like a dead letter boxes or leg, or dsk are very high qualification intelligence officer he was born in a family working for kgb. his brother working for kgb i think was a good example of soviet intelligence service so get tenure on august keen to put agent or the rounds of all the kgb never sent abroad unmarried man there was married to my second wife later as we helped to children i wanted to participate some daring operation i wanted to get a broad as soon as possible in 1982, the kgb sends gordy fc to the uk disguising his identity as a soviet diplomat his posting comes at a tense time relations between east and west are at a knife s edge in december of 1979, the soviets had invaded afghanistan. soviet allies in central america. we re making gains nicaragua and we re trying to make gains in el salvador. meanwhile, on africa soviet allies were fighting in angola. and we re making new friends in other parts of sub-saharan africa. this picture seemed to contradict soviet commitment to better relations with the united states why are they behaving this way? if they really want better relations with us? why are they on the march in what was then called the third world? but we now call the global south there s a political standoff, and neither side shows any signs of backing down the cold war was a view of the world where you had a communist, totalitarian empire run out of moscow. and western countries led by the united states, but including western europe and britain, facing off against each other you have the soviet union, which is at this point a i ll minute superpower, nuclear leader, neck and neck with united states in terms of innovation and development but at the core their ideologies as we know, are completely different democracy versus communism what began as an ideological conflict has escalated into a terrifying nuclear arms race. and neither side wants to appear weak the soviet union had something like 33,000 nuclear weapons. we had something like 22,000 way too many and way too scary. the cold war was an existential struggle over the future of world civilization and that s what makes this moment in history so dangerous is you have both sides completely misunderstanding both the power of their adversary and the intentions of their adversaries assignments are going off. the tornado here you cannot it s one you cannot outrun it it really is a terrifying experience. it is a stuff of nightmares. you just hear it and feel it is o brien. i m thinking i m going to die and i thought that was it. along with earth, with liev schreiber tomorrow at nine on cnn imagine a future where plastic is not wasted. but instead remade over and over into the things that keep our food fresher our family safer and our planet cleaner to help us get there. america s plastic makers are investing 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everything the soviet union stands for and he s not alone president reagan s vast limousine has just drawn up here outside the normal porch of income from buckingham palace there s going to be the first time that an american president has addressed both houses of parliament here in westminster run reagan, that maggie thatcher in was amazed that they thought alike right mr. thatcher really did, despite her uptight bearing and her hairdo really loved to be row with or i ll reagan, there s certain magnetism, there s certainly laurie to him and she she felt that tingling i don t want chancellor speaking for all americans. i want to say very much at home we feel in your house ronald reagan said that soviet communism will lie, cheat still to advance its mission around the world. that was the idea that ronald reagan had to delegitimized the soviet union. the decay of the soviet experiment should come as no surprise to us. we see totalitarian forces in the world who seek subversion and conflict around the globe to further their barbarous assault on the human spirit even before he became president ronald reagan said the cold war will end. and i know how it s going to end we win, they lose and he s about to ramp up the rhetoric even further the march of freedom and democracy will leave marxism-leninism on the asieh history. as it has left other trnas, which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people ronald reagan is rallying the troops. is rallying the nato alone, trying to send a signal that the united states should be respected and even fear the america of the 1970s, which was licking its wounds after losing the vietnam war. that s over. we re back, we re strong, and we should be fear making america great again, if you will. we re going to win in the end. we will outlast them people like me, hardliners stopped. that was terrific most of the people in attendance of the speech didn t think it was to serve him think at all why? because he was too radical it did cause a reaction so that speech, it was offensive and was actually offensive to a lot of people. a lot of people i remember saying while the who the hell are you to? to tell us that we are be people who had streaked that fed into the sense in moscow that ron reagan was account boy and he intended to use nuclear weapons against the soviet union in a war that is really thought psychologically, it is think about how dangerous that is closer cooperation between the uk and the us is exactly what andropov fears and in this cold war, andropov looks to his agents for proof what intelligence did in those days where he gave us details of the overall picture we could follow the number of intercontinental ballistic missiles that they had deployed. we could follow the number of new submarines who could follow the number of new tanks you could follow all these things that you could see from the satellite and we could hear about rumblings from poland or texas czechoslovakia hungary, or bulgaria are the unit to russia this is very typical. one of my wife and my arms eating ice cream in the snow i ve cited the bolshoi that s i was head of sas station in moscow in 19, early 1980s, the civil servants old signatures of official secrets act and set what s not in the public domain is rarely not for discussion by bias station and moscow was quite a small one. the whole apparatus of control and surveillance is very sophisticated than they used to paint radioactive paint on the bottom of our cars i know trackers we were thin on the ground, rarely it is extremely hard for outsiders to discover anything significant about the soviet political intentions while british agents seek a foothold in moscow in london, all or gordy ascii joins his fellow spies london was one of the major cities where serwer bianna is going on the kgb quarters and london, it s called station because you get station it s located in the russia membership that london job was extremely advantageous for gerd gsk it means that he was trusted and that he was decent cooperative, and it was good for him at the kgb station in london, there are two agents above gordy ascii in the hierarchy one of them is the kgb station chief are cati good general beep, fat he was not able to speak good english so he could not do anything. he could not write. he only was able to sign guard duty. sql was supposed to spend most of his time nine to five in the embassy doing she s official job being a diplomat and then during the evening on weekends, she became a spy their job was to get british secrets especially sucrose concerning britain s foreign policy gardi ascii is under pressure to send intelligence to moscow that validates operation rayon at the same time, he s had to hide the fact that he is a kgb spy from the british in their eyes, he s just a diplomat if he blows his cover or fails to feed the soviet leadership with good intel, he ll be on the next plane to moscow boards are very good career move for gorgias by the british counter intelligence service by far, phrases considered one of the most professional services in the world i m purchase sure. she knew that wouldn t be a picnic for him the ceo is about to take off. there s no one that goes the things i do we are personnel in what, four wrestling can be we wednesday night dynamited aid on tbs if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer, but up devo plus your voice is the first combination of two immunotherapies for adults, newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer but to spread tests positive for pd-l1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene up devo plus your voice is not chemotherapy. it works differently it helps your immune system fight cancer. and two from ways up, devo and year s way can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment, these problems can be 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could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. doctors preferred better science, better results. i m katelyn polantz at the federal courthouse in washington. and this is cnn close captioning brought to you by guilt visit guilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands, it has a design is like your heart racing had inside a prices new every day, hurry. there ll be gone in a flash. designer sales that up to 70% shop guilty.com today well, i ve got various newspaper cuttings, but also photos with mrs. t log, with actually was uncompromising in her dislike of socialism and communism and that s what drove her. it look so young and innocent. my job was really to make sure that ten downing street worked well for the prime minister maga margaret thatcher knows that it s not just politics that dictates the key moves in the cold war margaret thatcher was fascinated by intelligence part of it was the glamour but also she d liked to collect as much information as possible and intelligence was one of the sources when the government, there was a special box in number ten in which there would have been regular reports of anything which became known about soviets activity in uk mi6 has a very big secret. they re keeping from the prime minister in britain. i was supposed to be just an official civilian official of the soviet state. but zervos, a number of secrets in my life i was a kgb spy, spying against britain but he isn t just a kgb spy pretending to be a soviet diplomat when the telephone call to business intelligence service that s what you hear welcome. orleck, london. we ve been waiting for you i ll let go ascii is a double agent i became secret agent for the british intelligence in the 60s and 70s, gordy fc was based in denmark as a loyal and dependable kgb agent and it s there that he begins to see things in a different light. a turning point for him was that the soviet decision to crush the prague spring and attempted liberalizing the soviet style regime in czechoslovakia in 1968 gardi f ski katz had an internal personal shift he recognizes the inherent repressive snus of the soviet system, which as a kgb officer, he sworn to defend this is an ideological decision for him if this photo government or security services realized that i was spying for britain, i would have been dead it is not betraying. my country, russia i hated the communist system. i wanted to fight against it i simply would have regarded myself as not an honest person. if i wouldn t be fighting against that system there are some things that i really cannot going to i know you ll understand the nature of what we re talking about. when all lag arrived in london in 1982 it was invaluable to have the views of an insider in the russian embassy in london, who use the meaning of everything that was happening only eight people in the country know about this highly sensitive operation at a highly sensitive time it would be very, very few people anywhere you about all you. don t want anybody at any stage. so betrays a source because accidents happen usually things are very, very carefully contained only people who need to know as a great principal to know you have to keep completely tight to a very few people especially extended 9:00 news with michael president brezhnev, ruler of russia for nearly two decades is dead. so the soviet people tonight, five days of mourning begin the leaders who ve grown old in his shadow, the chance of ultimate power who will take over administration officials so there will be no change in us foreign policy toward the soviets until there is a change in soviet policy the soviet union finds reagan s aggressive tone not just insulting but an existential threat right now, the last thing the communist party wants is to be seen as weak so it decides to promote someone with a very clear agenda one adviser, calm front lawn or yuri andropov, a hard line man who would be we ve talked to deal with hey, mom, how many should i decorated? have ran have blue. that s a really tough call for you. that s john king from cnn. let s look at the data your county leaned red eye 15 points in the last presidential election however looking at the latest polling, you re going to need a lot of those purple sprinkles how this guy really knows his stuff $5 a cupcake, you know, the average cost of a cupcake around here is $3 no comment i m getting vaccinated and pfizer s pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine because i m at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia already gotten pneumonia vaccine. but i m asking about the added protection of krever, not 20. if you re 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia, prevnar 20 is approved in adults to help prevent infections from 20 strains of the bacteria that caused me cockle pneumonia in just one dose, don t get prevnar 20. if you ve had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients adults with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects for pain and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, fatigue headache, and joint pain. i want to be able to keep my plans. i don t want to risk ending up in the hospital with pneumococcal pneumonia. that s why i chose prevnar to ask your doctor or pharmacist? about the pfizer vaccine for pneumococcal pneumonia new group does assignments get my bag like a bunch of groceries, alice cheese and greens, just contemplate freedom. you can take your eyes off the new 2024 jeep wrangler in gladiator jeep, there s only one during the jeep make this the summer event, get 2000 bonus cash allowance plus no monthly payments for 90 days on the 2024 gop-led ear. and most 2024 jeep wrangler gas-powered models yeah, introducing ned s plaque psoriasis. he thinks is flaky red patches are all people see. oh, tesla is the number one prescribed pill to treat blacks psoriasis oh, tesla can help you get clears don t use a tesla if you re allergic to it, serious allergic reactions can happen. oh, tesla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting some people take new tesla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss upper respiratory tract infection, and headache may occur 242424 new cnn original series new episodes tomorrow would nine just two days after leonard brezhnev death, the head of the kgb hard line or yuri andropov, is promoted to the top job and drop was quite a terrifying man. he came out of the apparatus of control and he event, ran the soviet union as a very controlled environment. the moral vice president bush arrived or also secretary of state show pushes visit is intended as a gesture of conciliation according to western diplomats here he s diplomats worried that new communist party chief yuri andropov may have had to pledge a tough anti washington line and big weapons buildup to win military support. they would like the american delegation to meet with andropov after the funeral monday, but have no assurance the meeting will be arraigned here was a guy who came out of the soviet intelligence community you had the feeling during and drop-offs period that, you know, things were really inert. and the old generation was still still running the country my family was simply terrified. a great grandfather was crews shift. it was said the general secretary of the communist party of the soviet union khrushchev dismantled or as much as he could, he dismantle the kgb after stalin s death. so i m drop-off as my mother was convinced, was going to come back at us and the family with a vengeance. and there was even a talk that the gulags are going to be reinstated he is going to push forward certain policies including international policies as leader of the soviet union. andropov takes his operation rayon charts from the kgb back rooms to the heart of soviet policy you re andropov is a very conspiratorial figure. he is convinced that the united states is seeking domination over the soviets and ultimately a nuclear victory and then so the soviet union has to be completely and utterly prepared to push that button all eyes are now on reagan in this uncharted new landscape reagan was adamant that he is not going to deal with this red, red and for and rope of reagan, was that cow boy who s going to destroy the soviet union because he was playing an oldest films like john wayne reagan, and drop him always found each other neither of them would be a cough this was moment when we were really scared of the nuclear war that really stayed with me as the scariest time that i ve ever experienced in my life. and the soviet union the opposing sides and the cold war could not be further apart britain s double agent is now vital to understanding the level of andropov his paranoia he s got access to the operations being were on against the united kingdom by intelligence officers in the embassy and he s got a knowledge of the politics of moscow god, yes, get of course was able to brief his handlers on the gossip he knows a lot of people in the system and therefore, he s got this unrivaled insight into how decisions are taken, how they think in the senior reaches of the politburo he would be able to leave the embassy on a regular basis and to a safe house where he would be debriefed and if he could smuggle documents out of the embassy so much the better and the b arrangements for copying those in the safe house gordy? yes. skis actions make him so valuable. mi6 decides to inform ten downing street in? december. 1982 margaret thatcher is told that a highly placed kgb spy now works as a double agent for the british but she isn t told his name two months later, gordy ascii provides crucial intelligence operation. reihan is now official soviet policy what the soviets didn t understand is that there was a possibility that operation reihan could be a self-fulfilling prophecy operation reihan was perfect example of starting with a conclusion and then looking for justification for that conclusion. agents were asked are the americans and the british on the verge of nuclear war they were asked, proved to us find the evidence that they are, so that we re be ready for it. and that was the fundamental flaw with operation rayon we were instructed to watch for signs of special activities greetings within particularly by night. blitz, windows of the means of defense, and 40 law office. the american embassy, wrecking overtime until early morning hours what you like that jeff skate really brought was an insight, understanding of what operation rayon was really about it we re showing a paranoia but the paranoia was real asu, they very seeing reports the number of clauses was slowly, slowly growing visuals lucky the point, yes they re preparing when two sides don t know one another, they both misread signs you can see how dreadful things can happen by that kind of misunderstanding gardi of skis intel on the deepening soviet paranoia is so vital to the british that they must conceal their source even from the american the reason the british did not want the americans to know who gordy xq was, was the more people who know the name of a source the more imperiled the source becomes. reagan doesn t have the luxury of the brits inside knowledge. he feels the most effective approach is to scare the soviets into backing down he takes a brazen and terrifying new stands cnn special event. it s time to celebrate freedom progress and the trail blazers. he paved the way this is a festive day for all black americans. we still have a lot of work to do joins cnn s victor blackwell for a native interviews and performance is by john legend smoke robinson and so much more cnn special event, june celebrating freedom and legacy. wednesday, june 19 at ten when cnn i have relapsing a mess but i still want to spend my time my 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blamed for the cold war. they re both to be blamed for all these nuclear weapons. there s an moral equivalence between the two. ronald reagan was saying there s no moral could lead us, pray for the salvation of all of those who live in that totalitarian darkness. they are the focus of evil in the modern world everybody suggest this was, and how inflammatory this was. people worried that this cowboy from the west was irresponsible and he could blow us all on reagan s approach is to aggressively arm europe as a way to force the soviets to back down the whole idea of whether you were taught tough or soft on communism was still very much part of our political landscape. he decided to assure the right wing of the republican party that he was tough on communism. and i was dismayed because what is the strategy to call somebody? the global center of evil, if you insult people publicly, you ll have a hard time getting cooperation out of them. reagan also promotes a defense system nicknamed star wars these space lasers would identify and prevent incoming nuclear missiles its critics ridiculed it as unrealistic but the prospect of taking the nuclear arms race to space terrifies andropov there s the idea that we need to be very strong the only way to deter the soviet union from any kind of regression is to show them that they cannot win. and anything second thing that was going on was that we re going to increase our defense spending quite a bit in the soviet unique can t do that. they can t keep up with us. so we re going to spend them into oblivion. as reagan ramps up his rhetoric, a drama unfolds on the other side of the world that threatens to push the cold war over the edge governments around the world have expressed indignation over the soviet union s action and shooting down a korean jumbo jet over the cluster and pacific. the un security council will take up that incident later today. that tragedy later today, it s now reported that at least 50 of the 269 people on that jet were americans. the search goes on for the planes wreckage the crisis of our flight deck below seven just about half were korean, japanese, and taiwanese the free world was outraged once it s no exaggeration to say that western governments have been stunned and evening little frightened what s the news comes at a soviet had shut down the korean airliner, ronald reagan mediately goes on national television and uses every dirty word for their behavior that he can find. the source what can be said about soviet credibility when they so flagrantly lie about such a heinous act the soviet union becomes very defensive, very quiet, and makes no apologies at all. the military in moscow explain the korean jumbo was spying. so our missiles brought it down hi, my name s is robert mental cable news network. wondering if you will be having any type of statement not to say about the carolinas, not thank expect one soon. so that drove people in the west, especially conservatives like me, to think, boy, they are even worse than we thought they were. the incident raises the frightening thought that the finger on the soviet nuclear trigger could be as unstable as the individual who gave the order to shoot down the korean airliner it sparks protests and condemnation around the world i mean, there was really significant fear that this was going to lead to something big and extremely, extremely dangerous when the competition is a nuclear competition spying is extraordinarily important the russians were trying to spy on us we were spying on them it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust i was telling frank everything got that a control this is a war. the secret was secrets and spies, a nuclear game. sunday at ten on cnn, apartments.com. let s any landlord find qualified renders and signed leases and collect payments from any place even here and whirs here, he sled dave and ada apartments.com, the place to list of place every time i need a new phone, i had to switch carriers. 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questions. so we have answers like how to keep your yard looking, luck bush, which paint color matches your bold style with my lows rewards credit card, you can say 5% every day. you got this and we got, you doctors preferred better science, better results. chasing life with dr. sanjay gupta. listen wherever you get your podcasts in late 1983 piece hangs in the balance between the east and the west in a bid to be ready for soviet nuclear attack west launches able archer it s an annual military operation. but this year s exercise is more realistic than before 40,000 us and nato troops gather across europe right on the ussr s border. april archer was a normal military exercise by dado command to prepare naval forces in europe for an attack from the soviet union. but the way it was done was not normal at all the nuclear component of the exercise was hyped up the idea of it was make this as realistic as you could possibly make it the western powers show an almost naive ignorance of how this huge training exercise will be received in the ussr for andropov, it looks like his operation rayon prophecy is coming true they really see much more cables payable agile i knew, it wasn t dramatic moment i knew moscow was nervous and it came i m at a very sensitive moment for moscow that it had been humiliated on the global stage following the downing of that jet in particular. so every move was interpreted probably to a larger degree than it should have. b52 bombers with nuclear capabilities now arrive at the us airbase in germany andropov watches everything unfold from his hospital bed the soviet people are unaware of their leaders declining health as he keeps his hands firmly on the reins of power they re all puffy is dying, but he s clutching that red button. she really thinks if it s not him, who else he s in charge the soviet scrambled to respond nuclear submarines are primed and ready soviet troops are put on a 15 combat standby oh, ola go dfc probably was the one person who could convey to western sources what was going on inside the mind of soviet leadership at the time of able archer ascii helps his handlers realize that they re dealing with sheer paranoia at the hands at the top leadership in the soviet union. now unfortunately, it didn t come in time enough for this exercise to be canceled the exercise continues oblivious that a nuclear confrontation is now just a phone call away. but it s again, but i mean, it but it s not a game too. and i think what happened is that everything got out of control. this is just something that people can t comprehend that human error could bring the end of the world people just can t absorb that ultimately, you i kind of have this mid udacity. you believe in you own propaganda of your own greatness. you re in the control of the state all russian and soviet dictator s the problem is they always think that the, the last line of defense you are in power you have the right to if you decide to destroy it. so nobody else forget the united states doesn t even notice that the soviet der, on edge. they didn t even put the soviet reaction into ronald reagan s presidential daily brief before andropov can act, the able archer operation wraps up on schedule andropov is finally persuaded he that this really was just an exercise. this time life contribution was explained that this is dangerous you ll playing with fire the liver simply daughter the stands and intelligence. old russian leaders they able archer exercise world came very close to nuclear war the united states didn t know the ratchet down the tension when it really matter that is an indicator of just the lack of understanding that the united states and the soviet union headed each other. but in a nuclear confrontation, lack of understanding can have catastrophic consequences when adversaries have nuclear weapons pote
that might harm the citizens that he was elected to protect. he he has no ability to look at anything but himself. that s it. that s it. what s the worst thing that can be said about you that s accurate in your view, other than you were stupid to say that stuff? sure. look, i ve been accused of being a narcissist. i might plead to a misdemeanor on that, okay? um, i think i my judgment of some people was way off. i think i should have been a lot more vigilant and see some of the warning signs. i knew they were aggressively out there raising money, and i didn t slow it down because i wanted to raise the campaign money. i could have been more vigilant on that in retrospect. close, but no cigar. whether or not rod trusted the wrong people, he set them loose on illinois because they brought him the most money. whether the rules on political fund-raising are flimsy guardrails at best, you can still drive between the lines. so rod s tale is a cautionary one a camera-grabbing, over-the-top example of how bribery, extortion, and graft easily sneak into our political system behind ambition and enormous egos. and if politicians or the public feel the same way he does, then another rod blagojevich is just around the corner. i didn t break a law, cross the line, or take a penny, okay? but i never said i wasn t a [bleep] idiot. [laughter] thank you very much. thank you very much. thank you very much. thank you very much! -awesome. thank you so much. -yeah, thanks. appreciate it. really enjoyed it. you re all right. i wish you the best. we ll see how it ends up and who cares. that s true. find out what are you gonna do, throw me back in prison? -no, but i mean, like, -you can t hurt me, man. tapper: for a country that bills itself as the world s oldest democracy, we sure do love a strongman, and from teddy roosevelt all the way up to our reality tv president, nowhere produces more of them than the empire state. and i get it. in an age where congress approval rating hovers somewhere around sewer rats, we wanna vote for the politician who can finally just get things done. that was eliot spitzer to a t. but when new yorkers sent the sheriff of wall street to the governor s mansion, we all learned the hard way that white knights can have dark secrets. spitzer was caught breaking his own sex work laws, a level of hypocrisy we could never forget. eliot spitzer blazed a trail through new york that had him in spitting distance of the white house, right up until the moment he set himself on fire. this will sound like a setup for a bad joke, but bear with me. [cheering] the change you seek, the new york you dream of begins tonight. [cheering] so there s this honest politician named eliot spitzer, a white knight, new york official with a reputation so pristine, they called him mr. clean. he rose up the ranks from attorney general to governor by taking down the mafia as well as wall street banks. these are people who are stealing money. they may not do it with a gun, but the result is just as criminal. he won the hearts of minds of new yorkers as if he were derek jeter made out of thin-crust pizza, more trusted than the times, more untouchable than the subway handrails. he was such a hopeful person for the people. now is our time to build a government that exists not for those who hold an office but for those who pay the bill. he probably could have been a great governor. he could have been president. he tripped on his dick. governor eliot spitzer is under investigation for allegedly meeting with a prostitute at a washington, d.c., hotel. cooper: eliot spitzer, linked to an alleged prostitution ring. reporter: the affidavit alleges the prostitution ring operated under the name of emperors club vip. reporter #2: one official says that spitzer is referred to as client number 9. i can remember the new york times breaking the story and literally saying, holy shit. the tabs loved it, but all the serious papers loved it, too, because it was eliot spitzer, the sheriff of wall street, somebody who was doing good, doing right, and he s a hero. there was just this, like, can this possibly be true? it had so many of the elements of the classic tabloid scandal that it almost felt like it was poorly written. i am resigning from the office of governor. eliot came out, and he made this face that we called the pucker. [camera shutter clicking] that image of him was used over and over and over. it was just the perfect encapsulation of, like, i used to be this, like, high-flying king of shit, and now i m just, like, eating shit. thank you very much. tapper: far from being remembered as the man who cleaned up new york, though, spitzer will be forever known for nearly swallowing his own face, as he was outed as one of the biggest hypocrites in modern politics. that is what infuriates people more than anything i mean, the fact that this guy was talking about ethics and morality. even those who say prostitution is not a big deal point to the hypocrisy in these allegations. the hypocrisy that s present here is going to be his his downfall. and when a politician obsessed with being a do-gooder gets caught with his pants down, the late night material is endless. i ve sat next to the guy three times, and i didn t pick up on any of this, and i usually have excellent whore-dar. [audience laughter] but spitzer s sex scandal is not quite like other sex scandals because with no history of inappropriate behavior with women, his self-righteousness seemed genuine. or so we believed. the eyes of new york are on us. new yorkers loved him. he was a crusader for the little guy brave, bold, a great leader who did not have time for distractions. and that s the kind of politician we want, right the guy who cuts through the usual red tape and gets things done? but by the time he got into power, spitzer s noble crusade had been replaced with something darker. why do we keep ending up here? why do we keep placing our hopes in confident men who make big promises, then completely fail to deliver? come on. i would ask spitzer himself about this, but he stopped returning my texts, so i turned to eliot spitzer s mentor and friend, lloyd constantine, who s known him longer than almost anyone else in his life. so my thinking about this interview, i feel like your journey with eliot is the public s journey in the sense that people really thought he was gonna be the first jewish president. the muscular democrat. yeah, and i want you to take us on the journey. -yeah. -you ve talked about how you thought the presidency was eliot spitzer s manifest destiny, that he was going to be a fighter for the people. at what point did you start to think that? take us back to 1982. you re working for the attorney general of new york, bob abrams, and here comes your summer intern, a young guy named eliot spitzer. what was your impression? i was a little bit wary to begin with. you know, wealthy kid from well-known parents. kids like that usually wanna have a fun summer. but when eliot walks in, it was kind of love at first sight. there was an understanding that we both believed that the law was the most powerful instrument of social change and that law could be used to help people. spitzer s crusade for the people began in earnest a few years later, when he charged into the manhattan d.a. s office in 1986. one of eliot s early success stories was when he was working as a junior prosecutor, and he was tasked with trying to get the mob out of the garment district. the gambino crime family dominated manhattan s garment district, where they forced clothing manufacturers to use their trucking company to transport goods to retailers. most prosecutors went after the mob by following a paper trail from behind a desk, but spitzer had a novel idea to start his own factory, hiring 30 workers and an undercover state trooper to run it and simply waiting for the mafia to come to them. it took several months, but eventually a salesman stopped by, threatening to break bones, literally. a very quick and swift message from the gambinos either use our trucker, or somebody will be injured. [click] [recording playing] [click] spitzer always seemed to go beyond just the rigor of an investigation. he didn t wanna just read transcriptions. he wanted to listen to the wiretaps and hear how the mob guys talked. there was a visceral enjoyment of the subterranean nature of this. i played soccer, and this is a little -that s a tough, tough game. -well, we re not getting into -yeah. -no, i was the enforcer. i mean, i was the kid who played left fullback, not because i had real talent, but i took people out. and so it wasn t that i was, you know. somebody came through with the ball. i couldn t really do things other than just take care of em. and so it was, you play hard, you play rough, and hopefully, you don t get caught. [laughter] spitzer had learned that playing rough paid off, and riding high on his takedown of the mob, he ran for attorney general a few years later. he lost, but spitzer s crusade was not yet over. he was wildly ambitious, wanted desperately, i think, to be president of the united states. eliot was probably the definition of hubris, like, i am doing the right thing. the world must lie down before me. remember this point. while the public saw spitzer as fighting for them, he saw himself as an untouchable hero on a righteous quest. so this won t end well. eliot spitzer lost his first shot at attorney general of new york in 1994, but he went right back to work, becoming a partner at lloyd constantine s firm. eliot spitzer worked for your law firm, and your relationship continues, and your families become close. yes. -you met his wife silda. -yeah. what did you think of her? very smart. you know, i knew that they had been at harvard law together. on some level, she was more impressive, but they were equals, you know? -they were equals? -absolutely. that s interesting, because most americans, if they even know of eliot spitzer s wife silda, they think of her as just the wronged woman at that press conference. -yeah. and you re saying there s so much more to her. yeah. she was really protective of their girls, and to a certain extent had to sacrifice what was a really successful legal career in order for him to sort of be the star. it s not what she had hoped for in her life. that sacrifice was nothing compared to what she d face 10 years later as the wife of a scandal-plagued politician. but in 1998, with her full support, eliot ran for ag again and won. i m honored to be here as i declare victory of what has been a long race. we will begin a process of creating in the attorney general s office the pre-eminent public interest law firm in the country. what was different about eliot is that he expanded the jurisdiction of the attorney general s office particularly with respect to issues on wall street. this was something very unique and very unprecedented. spitzer watched as the internet turned the stock market into a gold mine, and stock analysts received kickbacks for overhyping weird internet companies. so while the average investor was convinced to pour his retirement funds into pets.com, stock analysts were using their bonuses to recreate scenes from the movie boiler room. we re players now, boys! let s celebrate! salute! [cheering] when the dot-com bubble finally burst, the federal commission that was supposed to be looking out for investors was not doing nearly enough to help. but luckily, new york s crusader rode in on his white horse to save the day. ordinary americans who have been asked to invest have been defrauded. their trust has been violated. spitzer realized that there s possibly an opportunity here. they re in new york, which is financial services central, so if bad behaviors happened anywhere in all this, they had jurisdiction. so spitzer set about looking for legal tools to make sure he could do exactly what he wanted. new york attorneys general had in their arsenal a powerful 1921 law called the martin act, which prohibited selling fraudulent securities to hoodwinked investors, but they only used it against small targets ponzi schemes and the like. spitzer unleashed its full power against wall street, determined to catch stock analysts in a lie. the quintessential small investor was paying the price for this, and i believe it s my job to protect them. masters: so spitzer goes to merrill lynch first, and he brings a case against them, which particularly picks on a single analyst named henry blodget. we still believe in yahoo! as a long-term platform that s really capable of competing with aol. masters: there were these instances where he would be on tv saying these stocks are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and then there would be him complaining internally in an email like. um, which you can figure out what that means. so if you re telling the public one thing, and you re saying something else, that sounds like fraud. eliot was the basis of real, systemic change. he had exercised more power than massive federal agencies like the sec. did he have more power, or did he just use it? well, you know, he exercised it, and the market responded. i represented morgan stanley, one of the targets of one of his investigations, and i talked to, you know, to the chairman and ceo. he wasn t worried about washington. he was worried about eliot spitzer. no one thought anybody could put their hands on those companies, and he was able to do that. so he was really the robin hood of that whole effort. by taking on the wild west of wall street, spitzer had earned himself a new nickname. spitzer has deputized himself as the sheriff of wall street. so even though you were on the other side in at least a case or two of his aggressive regulation of various financial industries, you thought that he was doing exactly what that 23-year-old, first-year harvard law student was meant to do. he is using power effectively to help the people. he was the most powerful, most successful, and i think most effective state attorney general in the history of the united states. that s pretty high praise. yes, absolutely. this all might sound like hyperbole now that we re on the other side of his shocking scandal and public downfall, but everyone thought this way at the time, and not just in new york. i myself believed that spitzer was on a path that could end up at the white house, but he had been learning some pretty undemocratic lessons on his way up, that he could push boundaries, seize power, and that the people would love him even more. -you have declared. -i have. -.officially. -officially. .that you are running for governor of the great state of new york the empire state. the empire state, absolutely. all right. i m gonna call it right now. [cheers and applause] in a telltale sign of his hubris, spitzer was so confident he would become governor, he started staffing his administration years before the election. one time spitzer said to me, there s someone i d like to interview to be lieutenant governor, but i wouldn t wanna be rejected. then i realized he s talking about me. and he was right. i didn t wanna be lieutenant governor. and at the time, hillary clinton was the junior senator from new york, so i said to spitzer, if hillary clinton becomes president, you pick the new senator. i would be your guy. and spitzer said something to me at that point. it was very prophetic. and all i could say to that was, physician, heal thyself. [laughs] craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. -[cheers and applause] -the change you seek, the reform you thirst for, the new york you dream of begins tonight. by the time eliot spitzer s running for governor in 2006, everyone expected him to win. in 2006, new york had been stuck in a holding pattern for years, and eliot spitzer, that seemingly upright pillar of moral rectitude, was just the candidate for them. polls close at 9 p.m. the election was called for spitzer as 9:01 p.m. man: the next governor of new york state eliot spitzer! eliot spitzer was elected governor at what percentage of the vote? -6 almost 70%. it was 69 1/2. that s insane. almost 70% of the vote? by far the greatest plurality in the history of new york, more than franklin roosevelt, more than teddy roosevelt, more than mario cuomo, more than anybody. but unlike his illustrious predecessors, spitzer would only last one year in office before self-destructing in a way that absolutely no one had foreseen. so i have a theory of leadership. oftentimes, people rise to positions of power where they are able to remove anyone from their inner circle who will tell them when they re being an asshole, and that moment, when they choose to do that, often sets the course for their downfall. that may have been the case. in the fall of 2006, silda asked me not to work for eliot. -why? -she said, you re the only sort of senior older man that he listens to, and he needs to have some advice. and if you go to work for him, he will stop listening to you. but lloyd became a senior advisor to spitzer anyway, because he still believed that his old friend was on his way up. did you notice any change in him? i had noticed the change in him prior to the election a kind of of arrogance which i, you know, had not seen before. he didn t sound like a modest guy to begin with. well, no, no. this is a kind of, you know, irrationality that culminated on, uh, inauguration day. [applause] tapper: how so? in the first 45 seconds, he gets up, he attacks pataki, and he attacks the senate majority leader joe bruno, not mentioning their names, but he said. [amplified voice] new york has slept through much of the past decade while the rest of the world has passed us by. [cheers and applause] you know, joe bruno turns to pataki and says, he s talking about us. the things he wanted to do required really significant systemic change. it required money. it required legislation, it required cooperation, and he goes after the people he needs in the first 45 seconds. that s not hyperbole. so from day one, it was awful. from the first 45 seconds of day one, it was awful. not everyone will agree with this vision, and some will not support these solutions, but progress we will have. they need this governor to govern. they don t need him to be a steamroller. one year before he was dubbed client number 9, spitzer had gone from the exalted sheriff of wall street to a reckless steamroller, and then he opted to use his office to start a private war that got its own tabloid nickname troopergate. -and what is the troopergate? -the troopergate thing was a national story, because this was elliot spitzer. early on, because of this taunt at the inauguration, there was a combative relationship between senate majority leader joe bruno and eliot spitzer. the state of new york owns a small fleet of planes and helicopters that are meant only for official use, but it was an open secret that bruno treated them like air uber without the surge fees. upping the ante in the standoff between spitzer and the republican state senate leader, spitzer s aides instructed state troopers to surveil bruno and keep records of his air travel. to use the power of the state police to go after a political rival is despicable, possibly illegal, and undermines our democrat form of government. it made you realize, like, oh, wait. this, like, avenging angel, this crusader that we re talking about, will do shady stuff. let me play devil s advocate for one second. state senator bruno was abusing state aircraft. yep. was there a proper way to stop it? just say no. the governor controls the aircraft, so the next time, you know, bruno says, i need to go to yonkers. i need to go to buffalo, you say, no. instead of the easy fix, spitzer had gone into attack mode, which you can do if your own record is spotless. problem was, the so-called mr. clean had a lot of dirty laundry. nobody is appointed to a single thing, nor will they be able to that i personally misstep, but i m taking responsibility. eliot spitzer has never publicly admitted when he started soliciting sex workers, nor has he said what particular event might have triggered that choice. some sources put it before his inauguration, which might put his first year in office in a new context. he was not in control, so i get a phone call from silda. she says, let s go out for lunch, and she says, who is this guy? he looks like eliot, but i don t know who this guy is. and, of course, i knew what she was talking about, and i said, it s the intoxication of the moment. he s full of all of this pride at getting this amazing electoral result. the man we know and love will be back soon. was he? no. i felt great disappointment at seeing this situation distract from the good work of many hard-working people and a productive first year. so it sounds like the first year of the spitzer governorship. the only year. [laughs] -.is a disaster. -yes. rather than getting his big legislative program with scores of items, we have been limited to around six or seven. and the number one priority of eliot spitzer was to have the toughest sex trafficking law in the united states. -he said that? -yes. -he wanted it? -yes. as unbelievable as it sounds, spitzer decided to prioritize making it a felony to knowingly sell travel-related services to facilitate prostitution an agenda item only sigmund freud could fully appreciate. there, at least he succeeded. new york s anti human trafficking bill of 2007 was signed into law on june 6th. we can only speculate as to how soon afterwards spitzer himself started breaking that law. spitzer goes from having won a landslide, having been the sheriff of wall street, where people stopped him on the street, to being a governor who s ordinary. and i think that must have been really, really difficult for him. paterson: when eliot spitzer was in the governor s mansion. .he would walk around the mansion and look at the portraits and wonder what the former governors would wanna say to him. he definitely was looking for spiritual endorsement. there was so much acrimony involved. it was rocky. you ready for the grand finale? [laughs] tapper: march 9, 2008, governor spitzer what does he say? i got an email around 10:30 p.m, saying, please be at my apartment at 7 a.m. tomorrow. this seems like an unusual request. this is it s an amazing i knew something was wrong. so i didn t email him back. i just called him. and he said, as early as tomorrow, the new york times will reveal that i have been involved with prostitutes. so this guy who s a crusader against human sex trafficking is actually.a customer. right, a customer, yes. a john. and i immediately become relieved. why? because now i understand what the hell happened to my friend. he has been painfully aware that he s gonna go down at any moment, and it s hard to do your job while you feel like there s a gun in back of your head. even if you re the one that s holding the gun. on the morning of march 10th, as lloyd drove down to manhattan to be with his friends, they all knew that they had mere hours to formulate a plan before the whole world knew what spitzer had done. so you drive to his apartment in manhattan. yep. so i walk in, and he says, welcome to a greek tragedy. we sit down at the kitchen table silda, eliot, and myself, and the first thing that she said, did you know that he was doing this? -and? -i said i didn t know. i had no idea. and at this point, you still think that governor spitzer can stay governor. absolutely. i had already formulated the plan on the way down to keep him in in office. i wrote a speech that i wanted him to give. i contacted shrinks. i contacted a facility which deals with sexual addiction. the spitzer camp was ready to fight, or, at least, the people around him were. spitzer s own feelings on the matter seemed quite different. for the first few hours, i m resigning. i m resigning today. and i dissuaded i said, you are you are not competent to make that decision today. while spitzer s inner circle was in their war room in manhattan, lieutenant governor david paterson was 150 miles away in the capital, albany, just going about his day. there was an event that morning that the governor could not do. no problem. paterson had it covered. then a second event, spitzer was still not around. paterson started getting suspicious. i felt like the character in a movie where everyone else knows what s going on except the character. but no one had any answers for him, until shortly after 1 p.m., when the phone finally rang. finally, spitzer s secretary calls me. i hear something about a prostitute, entrapment or something. so i said, well, what s the result of this? he says, well, the governor s finished. he s gonna resign. so i call chuck schumer, who is the senior senator. i call hillary clinton, who s the junior senator from new york. hillary clinton s the first one to call back, and she says, david, there was something very ominous about your message. is everything all right? i said, i guess everything s all right, but i m gonna be the governor in about 35 minutes. she goes, oh, my god. what happened? there s just dead air. how do you explain a sex scandal to hillary clinton? as paterson had been warned, there was a press conference just after 3 p.m. with the shocking news already splashed across the new york times web site, everyone thought they knew what they were in for. [camera shutters clicking, reporters murmuring] [amplified voice] good afternoon. i ve disappointed and failed to live up to the standard i expected of myself. i must now dedicate some time to regain the trust of my family. -reporter: are you resigning? -reporter #2: are you resigning? reporter #3: are you resigning, governor? in the wake of this completely unexpected news, there was just one question on everyone s minds. was eliot spitzer really going to try to stay in office? i must now dedicate some time to regain the trust of my family. i will not be taking questions. thank you very much. i spoke to a number of sources in new york democratic politics who said they had been told without a doubt that governor spitzer would, in fact, resign, and then, of course, he did not. the new york democrat is said to be weighing his options and bracing for what could happen next. we re waiting for, uh, the governor to do the right thing. as soon as the times broke the story, it was everywhere, and it moved really, really quickly. reporter: government charged four people with operating a high-end prostitution ring known as the emperors club vip. cooper: client 9, mentioned in the criminal complaint, is, in fact, the governor. reporter #2: the document states client number 9 arranged for a prostitute named kristen to travel from new york city to washington, d.c. client 9 said he would pay for everything. according to a source with knowledge of the investigation, the two met at the mayflower hotel in washington. that encounter took about two hours on february 13th, the day before valentine s day. there are spitzer supporters who think wall street had something to do with this. these moneyed interests, all these enemies he d made when he was attorney general they were in on a grand conspiracy. i think that s that s that that may well be the case, but so what? you ve been offered things in your life. i ve been offered things in my life, and i.i have agency to act, and this guy had pretty pretty big damn agency, okay? masters: people like to speculate that this whole case was somehow set up by one of spitzer s very wealthy enemies. certainly, lots of really rich people hated him. i tend to think it s ridiculous, because you d have to know that he was interested in prostitution, and he was not a guy who, like, grabbed women s women by the butt or seemed seemed like someone who would be using prostitutes. i mean, so that s what makes the conspiracy a little bit weird, like, you would have had to know that he was vulnerable this way. tapper: and when the details came out, it was clear that this was not just one moment of weakness. even if someone had set him up that first time, no one forced spitzer to go back for the second or the third or even the eighth time, nor was anyone forcing him to make stupid mistakes that almost certainly helped get him caught. that was all eliot spitzer. when spitzer started the whole prostitute thing, he was putting money into a small regional bank that was just underneath the money laundering rules, and so the bank reports him. like, the governor they know his name. he s the governor. i mean, he doesn t just do a transaction that would draw attention. he does it in a place where they would notice, in his own name. and spitzer was sending these shady wire transfers to an obvious shell company, which soon revealed itself to be a front for a prostitution ring that the fbi was already investigating. once those dots got connected, the former sheriff of wall street was done for. he ran the rackets bureau at the manhattan d.a. s office, so he knows the way this works, and to the extent that he says, oh, i thought i d get away with it either that is simply an outright lie, or it is an indication of such massive self-deception that that also says something about what s going on and not going on in this guy s mind. right. after the first press conference, lloyd and silda spent a furious 61 hours trying to convince spitzer to remain and fight. and for the first time in his life, eliot spitzer chickened out. silda, along with me, is trying to convince him not to resign as governor. he humored us, i think. i don t think he ever seriously considered it. -he wants out. -he wants out. he doesn t wanna be a hypocrite. he wants out. because of the sex trafficking laws he pushed for. -yeah. -that s the reason? part of it. that s part of it. we made a principled argument here. you re afraid of being a hypocrite. you shouldn t elevate your sense of self over the interests of the state of new york and the people who elected you in this monumental plurality. reporter: it s the wife. it s the wife. here he comes. [camera shutters clicking] tapper: the press conference 61 hours later becomes iconic for. -because of silda. .because of silda standing by. -her man. -.her man. [amplified voice] in the past few days, i ve begun to atone for my private failings with my wife silda, my children, and my entire family. the image of silda spitzer standing beside her husband at the press conference was so powerful, in fact, it inspired an award-winning tv series the good wife, which lasted seven times longer than the actual spitzer administration. silda, to give up that much and then watch him blow it up like that on something fundamentally attacking your marriage, that has gotta be the worst ever. though many eyes were on silda, she, of course, was not the reason everyone had gathered again two days later. eliot had come to a decision. i am resigning from the office of governor. as i leave public life, i will first do what i need to do to help and heal myself and my family. reporter: this has been one of the hardest, the furthest, and the fastest falls from grace that we ve seen in american politics. reporter #2: a dramatic end to the political career of a man who was once one of the democratic party s rising stars. tapper: spitzer may have resigned to avoid the scrutiny he knew would come, but he could not outrun an american public that wanted to take in all of the salacious details of his hypocrisy. the sheriff of wall street was dead. long live client number 9. the governor was described as a difficult client. what d that mean to you? a difficult client would mean that he didn t feel he needed to wear a condom. it could also mean he had some, uh, unusual sexual proclivities that we haven t heard about yet. -[laughs] a little tmi there, jason, but thank you. eliot spitzer s sin was hypocrisy. i mean, we re all hypocrites. we re, all of us, a mass of contradictions, and we all know it. and yet when someone as outed as having those contradictions, we wanna punish that person, drive them from public life. rather than saying, there but for the grace of god go i, it s. even snl, which had never actually mocked spitzer before, just had to get their jabs in on the newly anointed client number 9. and you wanted to have sex with a hooker, but you didn t wanna wear a condom? -really? -hmm. really? that might not be scary if you were client number 1, but you were client number 9. [laughter, cheers and applause] but no detail caught the public s imagination quite like the tidbit that spitzer allegedly kept on his black socks while engaging with sex workers. even if he did keep black socks on, who cares? like, if that s a kink, then, lord, help us. for weeks, it was the only thing anyone could talk about. new york magazine had a great eliot spitzer cover by barbara kruger, the artist. i mean, it was everywhere, and ashley dupré afterwards for weeks was in the news. for the first time, we are seeing the face and learning the story of the woman for whose sexual services governor spitzer allegedly paid thousands of dollars. reporter: she is the escort known as kristen. she goes by the name ashley dupré. she already made music on her myspace page. like, this was a person who was ready for the spotlight. she ended up becoming a columnist for the new york post. sirius launched a radio channel just devoted to the eliot spitzer scandal, just so people could, like, talk all day long on sirius about client 9. tapper: but if you thought that this scandal was the end of eliot spitzer, you d be mistaken. when you re a politician or a very famous person who goes through a major scandal, you have two choices afterwards. you can either go away forever, or you can.not, and eliot spitzer decided to not. [sfx] water lapping. [sfx] water splashing. [sfx] ambient / laughing. [sfx] ambient / laughing. tapper: how did people take it? this was a turning point in american government, in politics. how so? because eliot and what he stood for, all of the people and all of these areas transportation, education, infrastructure, arts and culture, who felt that this was the administration that not only would fix this in the empire state but then go to washington and advance these ideas on a national level had now gone down. people believed in him, you know? so. and not just people in new york. this was a national government in formation. -yeah. and all that. -all of that. .gone. it was an overwhelming loss of a rare leader, happening the very same day that bear stearns collapsed, setting off one of the worst financial crises in u.s. history. but the sheriff of wall street had already turned in his badge. we have just learned that eliot spitzer remember him? the former governor of new york will not face any charges in relation to his prostitution scandal earlier this year. the u.s. attorney s office investigated, and ultimately declined to prosecute spitzer. -[cheers and applause] -spitzer: thank you. so resigning from office was the only punishment spitzer got for his law breaking and hypocrisy. the american people can forgive a lot when it comes to sex, but hypocrisy not so much, at least if you re a democrat. so when spitzer ran for comptroller after briefly hosting a cnn talk show filled with way too much passive-aggression. -stay with us. - cause he hasn t talked enough. .it was the hypocrisy of his story that i got hung up on. one of the things that a lot of people take offense to is you never faced charges under your own law. well, the decision was made based upon the standards that were set by the department of justice and made by the u.s. attorney s office. they looked at the evidence, and they dealt with me the way they dealt with everybody else who was in my situation. i don t know what more i can tell you really think that? oh, i mean -oh, absolutely. -what you did was incredibly reckless and perhaps, more importantly, was very illegal, as you know, a class e felony, paying for sex, a law you signed, bumping it up to class e. when was the last time you broke that law? 2008? that s correct, and and let me tell you, even though it may seem quixotic and hard to make sense out of, i m proud that we did sign that human trafficking law. that was the right thing to do. it is important. it is something i believed in then and believe in now, and and -even though you violated it? -that s correct. spitzer ultimately lost the comptroller race in 2013, and that was not the only thing he lost. reporter: eliot spitzer and his wife silda are divorcing. though married for 26 years, the couple had been living in separate apartments for months. tapper: but don t shed any tears for eliot spitzer, the divorcé. in 2016, news breaks that he s being allegedly extorted by a russian woman named svetlana zakharova, who herself claims spitzer paid her for sex work. the exact nature of their relationship remains locked in civil litigation. in the end, we re left with yet another politician who sold the people of new york a bill of goods. governor spitzer he was the person fighting for the people. he was stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, and i think people wanted to believe in a hero. so when his downfall came, it wasn t just the falling of eliot spitzer. it was the death of a dream. masters: look, i fell under his spell like lots of other people. i wish in many ways that he had been satisfied with doing what he was very good at and had stayed on for another term or two terms as attorney general. i do think that if he had done that, he might have helped stop some of the worst abuses that led to the financial crisis of 2008. savage: maybe it s a case where he was externalizing his internal conflict. maybe he thought prostitution was wrong, and hookers should be thrown in jail, and that was, you know, side by side in him in conflict with this attraction to prostitutes. if we just throw them all in jail, get them all off the streets, then i won t touch any of them. i interviewed him must have been 2018. and i know he understands he caused a lot of people in his personal and professional life a lot of pain. i know he s sorry for that, but he certainly hasn t allowed it to consume his life. have you ever asked him why he did this? -oh, he doesn t know. -he doesn t know? he has no idea? i mean, there s no introspection, no psychoanalysis about, i did this because i wanted to ? -he doesn t wanna know. -yeah. yeah, there are people i m not gonna think about why i did this or why i didn t do this. you know, they re not introspective. i m not saying that that makes them better or worse. it s just, he doesn t wanna know any of that stuff. and the truth is that that s what the people loved about eliot spitzer. no second-guessing, no debate, on a crusade, charging ahead to systemic change, steamrolling enemies, cutting red tape in his path. his accomplishments were were tangible and exceedingly rare, which makes it hard not to mourn what we may have lost with the downfall of the sheriff of wall street. but it was his zealous belief in his own righteousness that made eliot spitzer s self-destruction inevitable, and that might be why this story s so chilling.
and the pros so far, she s put up 30 points on a couple of occasions. she s also had games where she s been held the single-digits, she struggled a turnovers. she struggled with the leeks physicality, and every player on team usa does have senior level international experience. eight have played in the olympics still, only 22. clark has created an absolute frenzy of interest in women s basketball, which has already led to this tangible boost in the wnba s developed litman. her entry to the pros has come with an extremely divisive undercurrent. and this is just the latest thing that she s going to have to navigate now, as everybody figures out what the official roster will look like. yeah. i m sure we ll continue here about that and that controversy carolyn manner. good to have you. thanks so much. and thank you for spending a part of your morning with us inside politics sunday with manu raju was nice. we ll see you back here next weekend. have a good day. taking this stain. israel makes a movie in gaza. president biden tries to outshine donald trump overseas, are refused to believe that america s greatness is a thing of the past while at home the vice president calls trump s conviction disqualified. cheaters don t like getting caught and exclusive details on a new plan to further overhaul immigration. well, progressives concerns plus retribution. i would have every right to go after them new reporting publicly because promise payback. thanks. have consequences. they going to have consequences as i should. and perseverance a rising democratic star confronts a debilitating terminal diagnosis when it comes to eunice progressive is not a good thing to be. our exclusive sit-down ahead inside politics that s reporting from inside the corridors of power starts now morning. welcome inside politics it s sunday, um, when roger president biden woke up in france this morning after he spent the last several days warning about the risks to democracy and marking the 80th anniversary of d-day. yet as he tries to ensure american allies, but the us commitment to the world order, biden has not mentioned donald trump, munch by name, not once during his pair of major speeches but the contrast he s trying to draw is clear as he seeks to reframe the race and take on his major vulnerabilities. knew this morning on that front, cnn has breaking news and how the president is trying to address one big weakness with a major policy more on that in just a moment. but first he and his team are dealing with the aftermath of that israeli operation in gaza that rescued four hostages. gazan officials say at least 274 palestinians were killed. cnn senior, senior white house correspondent kayla tausche is lie from paris. so kayla, how s the presidency addressing the fall of this recipe? q operation manu, the white house says, it s supports all efforts to secure the release of hostages still held by hamas, including americans, whether that s by negotiations or by other means here in france, president biden and president reagan macron have reiterated the need for an immediate ceasefire, but this all comes as biden is wrapping up a multi-day trip to france, where he has tried to set himself apart from his gop opponent as president biden memorialized war heroes in normandy, church, remarkable bravery on that day. his reelection campaign released this. a good commander in chief is somebody who gives veterans knocking donald trump in a new ad as unfit to serve. the aim to distinguish biden from trump on defense with this week s decorum on display pledging unwavering support for european allies. we will not, we will not say it again, walk away where trump is non-committal. i ve been saying, look if they re not going to pay, we re not going to protect okay. in speaking from the cliffs, american troops scaled on d-day for the fortunate heirs because of a legacy of these heroes, biden, earning comparisons to a republican ronald reagan are armies are here for only one purpose to protect and defend democracy. who 40 years ago was also selling voters on a second term so far, they re not sold according to one recent poll, independence favor trump over biden by 12 points, trump traveled to normandy d2 to mark the d-day 75th. today we remember those who fell, but after his speech attacking democrats in an interview her name, it s nervous magic that she s a nervous wreck. trump later came under fire for skipping a visit to a cemetery outside paris, reportedly calling the americans, buried their losers, something he s denied, but biden doesn t want people to forget telling campaign donors last week, he said they re losers and suckers who in the hell does he think he is in just a few hours, president biden is scheduled to visit that very cemetery outside paris before departing france the trump campaign. meanwhile, for its part calls the biden team desperate and says it s president biden, who s been disrespecting service members, manu, tausche in paris. thank you and now there s a lot to unpack, so let s break this all down with our great panel this morning. seung min kim of the associated press said harnden with the new york times, cnn s isaac dovere, and moralizing with npr. good morning. all right. great. thank you guys all for joining me today. a lot to discuss. that was an interesting trip over the last several days. what s interesting of course, as we all know that elections are typically decided by the economy. but this is an election, of course, it has two wars that are raging overseas. there are the biden has been making the case about democracy that says major selling point. this is how voters view how the issues that are important to them, economy number 130, 1% immigration number two, we ll talk about that in a second. presumably think democracy is 16%, but still the issues about ukraine and the israel-hamas war ranking lower down sudden when you cover the white house for the associated press, how does the biden campaign believed that these issues, foreign policy issues, may have an impact or do they not think you ll have much of an impact come november well, there s a lot contained within that foreign policy category. obviously, we know that one of their biggest weaknesses is the biden administration s handling of the war in gaza, which has really dissolute progressive disillusioned progressives and young voters when the, on the issue of democracy, which you can also put into this foreign policy category, as we have seen over the last several days with president biden and france, they believe that is a really fundamental issue that unites not only their coalition, but kit gets those independent voters, those so-called nikki haley voters that we have seen persistently turnout in these primaries. they believe that that is something that could attract them to their sayyed. and that s why you saw that s one of the reasons why you saw biden speaks so forcefully in these issues over the last several days, he never really said the words donald trump, but you see the political subtexts. you can t help but see that contrast that president biden and his aides are trying to implicitly make against you know, someone like donald trump who disparages the nato alliance, who has said, who has given the green light to putin to do whatever he wants and biden says that is not the way and you really invokes the memory of d-day invokes the the honor of these army rangers to say what would they ask us? to do? we they would ask us to. one quote was vanquish hateful ideologies and you can t help but think that president biden was thinking about donald trump at that moment and look, but you talked about trump versus biden on some of these issues, isn t voters view them according to recent quinnipiac paul preserving democracy as joe biden i ll play a lot seven points, but he is losing. he s underwater. and what the israel-hamas more in russia ukraine, war, morrow i mean, what do you explain that? because trump is barely talked about what is policy is on the israel-hamas war or on ukraine for oh, he s been pretty clear on ukraine. he was impeached the first time because he held up military aid to ukraine. but about how to end this war. yeah, you know, except for that he d ended on day one. what this one was the president. but what s interesting about that, the bad numbers on gaza are about internal democratic divisions that young people and progressives are angry with biden about that. i think that as if biden can succeed in conflating foreign policy in the threat-to-democracy, which is pretty high up on those list of concerns foreign policies way down. but democracy is way up. if you can conflate them, i think that can help them. and what really struck me about the president and europe the things he said could have been said by any president. in other words, of course, we re going to defend democracy and our allies. but because he s running again, someone on a pretty openly authoritarian platform who said nice things about putin disparaged nato allies said, we don t really deserve belong in ukraine. it s not our fight. that s what made this contrast. so explicit want to turn to what you have is what you, some breaking news here about a major issue that president is going to confront and dealing with immigration. right now, if you look at this is isaac story from this morning, biden nears huge next move on. immigrations. you tries to win over latinos in key states this past week, he moved forward in an executive action that angered a lot of folks on the left to try to clamp down on migrant crossings at the southern border. this time a shift. what is it? what are reporting is that the president is very close to moving forward on what would be the next round of executive actions. it would be to make work possible legally for long term undocumented immigrants who are married to americans it sounds like a small group. it s actually about 800,000 people, predominantly latino, when you think about the effect that this haves, it s not just on those people themselves, it s of course, on their spouses under kidd on their whole networks around them, that really makes a reverberating effect through millions of people. by the way, many of those people concentrated in arizona, nevada, georgia, places of the president has been behind a specialty with latinos. there s a political benefit here, but to folks who are been involved with this, this looks a lot to them like daqqa to 0.0 this time, 2012, it was june 15, 2012, barak obama created the daca program for people who had been brought here as children, unknowingly to, so that they could be legal status that to a lot of people was one of the turning point moments for obama s reelection campaign. there is a deep desire to replicate that both in terms of the policy effect here and in terms of the political effect. yeah the political factors. one thing we ll look at it right now. obviously, both polls showed that biden is struggling with on the issue of immigration is what it is major vulnerabilities, but had a biden s bars versus trump s supporters look at the idea of undocumented immigrants and whether they should be able to stay in the us legally if certain requirements are met, the recent pupils that 85% of biden supporters would are supportive of that. but just 32% of trump s supporters such a divide here, but it s clearly he s moving. you could say, to the left to try to placate those concerns is hearing one, how he s been heroin and certainly i think it reflects the kind of cross pressures he s feeling. when the number of issues not only immigration before in policy, this is a president who s tried to be everything to everyone in a lot of points. and with on both the border. and i think in foreign policy you ve seen the difference the gold teeth on that. i think that biden. okay. man, obviously with this is a strip that has flipped to a political liability and i think it s because democrats have not had an affirmative position on a lot of these issues. they have been able to criticize donald trump and republican actions, but there has not been a unified view from both top of the party to the base. well, what to do about immigration? and once you do a look abroad, but i think it s important that we don t see these issues as completely separate. when people talk about the economy too often bring up the fact that we re, that we re giving a lot of money into ukraine in israel when people talk about foreign policy, they ll bring up preserving democracy. these things are working together and also biden s perception, even things like age, the perception of him is not in the driver s seat of kind of events, but reacting to advance, it s something that happens on the foreign policy states that is contributing to his perception of unpopularity domestically. so these things are all kind of all working together to create a really difficult picture for this president. but i think what we re seeing now is the is the white house trying to take a more active role in shaping ahead of this debate so that by the time donald trump makes these arguments, he can point to very specific things that he has done recently specifically on the issue he has someone isaac mentioned about the impact that leads me like dog got the biden team looks kinda views this as darker. 22 of you covered this very closely at that time biden has struggled since then, with hispanic voters. this is having any impact. do you think with that key demographic or is this something similar in any way to what obama did more than a decade ago? well, i was i was talking with some some people who work in this space and there s so much anger after the border executive action that the president role that this week, that there s some thought that they might not even want to praise whatever affirmative action that the administration roles that that would help these undocumented immigrants. but i think another thing to remember too, is that president obama in 2014 rolled out something similar on executive action that was actually blocked by the supreme court. and it was never implemented. and now i m sure biden s team i m sure biden s lawyers are trying to make sure to craft this proposal in a way that they feel could withstand scrutiny. but first of all, the supreme court is a lot more conservative now than it was in 24 14. and he s already going to he could do these things either on the border or on that. it could get blocked by the courts. and then what does that do? then what does that do? those people who he s trying to thwart such a good point, but i m sure republicans will have something to say. this as well. all right coming up next is retribution on the ballot in november i ll dive into president trump s former president trump s new calls for revenge. and my reporting on how far his party is willing to go to back them up get a vote for trump. now i 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number at that powers are own with the security features we need. because my businesses are my life let s, talk was a blow it up. so whatever s next, we ll cook in which by gnats make switch to the partner businesses rely on before i would earth, would we have schreiber tonight? did nine on cnn vice president kamala harris, making news overnight and going on the attack and even going a bit further than her boss taking aim at donald trump in the aftermath of his felony conviction. speaking to michigan democrats last night. here s called trump, a cheater and said he thinks he is above the law. she said that should be disqualifying for anyone who wants to be president of the united states. but how is the rest of the political world responding to the guilty verdict in my new reporting this week with any grayer, we speak to some of the most vulnerable republicans and democrats and find it s often the democrats unwilling to speak about the verdict while swing district republicans rally to the former president s defense and have no pumps with a convicted felon at the top of their ticket by panels back to discuss this isaac use put a lot time with kamala harris. what do you make of the fact that she s going further down again and then biden i in april, spent a bunch of time with her, wrote a piece about how she is really embracing the campaign and the campaign aspects of things which is looser, swinging harder at trump. she also at this book moment, it does not have a direct opponent, right? we re waiting for donald trump to pick a running mate. we ll see who it is, but that puts her in this position where she can continue just going at trumping going at it, him in a way that i think actually speaks to where a lot of the democratic voters would like more democrats to be the response from joe biden and from the biden campaign overall, to donald trump s conviction is just stays convicted felon, not really talk about the details of it, and not really talk about it that much even at all and that has struck a lot of democrats in the wider world as a sort of strange approach. given that they would like you to brace as you may get more part of your message their goal here is to beat donald trump and part of that would be from making him more disqualified in the eyes of voters, harris went right out that and by the way, she went right at it at a democratic party in michigan democratic party event rather, and michigan that is where i think we should expect to see her much more over the course of the next six reminds me of her presidential campaign, you know, justices on the ballot. common harris prosecuting the case against donald trump. these were all kind of ethos is that were part of the original premise of her as a politician. i think that is going to be the rozi place to isaac s point, to be two, to actually be able to make the case in a more direct way than joe biden. well, but at the same time, we haven t seen real returns from this and especially because on the public side, that conviction has not registered as a huge shift. we were following the news there are times polling about what actually moved people after the conviction. and you saw two points moving away from from trump to biden, but some of that was drop-off, just the interest in third-party, some of that. but the landscape is really messy around this conviction, but it s not telling the sea change and last year when we were talking to democrats about the premise of biden s campaign part of it was a belief that the legal problems will make donald trump inherently uncollectible. we have not seen that come to fruition and so what the harris is doing, i think it s to try to make that true in a way that democrats have not been able to kind of make that reality such so far, but their belief that they would inevitably happen has not come to pass. and we re going to dive a little deeper. about the impacts are not at bag will have on the numbers in the next segments. thanks for that good there was going to board a cub meanwhile, we ve heard to trump and just talk about retribution and what does that exit mean? who really knows, but this is what he s talking about. this is his messaging in the aftermath of his conviction will revenge, just take time. i will say there has births and sometimes revenge can be justified. feel i have to be honest. sometimes they can it s very terrible thing. it s a terrible precedent for our country. does that mean the next president does it to them? that s really the question. when this election is over, based on what they ve done, i would have every right to go after them i mean, sure. he s rallied the base in the aftermath of the conviction, but is at risk of going too far. there might be the thing that struck me about donald trump s campaign is how much it s been base oriented, how much he doesn t seem to care about those independence or nikki haley voters he s just really been ever since the beginning of the political yeah, this is his theory of the case. it s like a cable news business model. you don t have to a bigger audience, they just have to watch him 24/7 how much money you raised so that but but i think that the republican party has fallen in line. i mean, some of his supporters are calling for jailing alvin bragg, something for supporters are calling for executing the alvin bragg, but and to a person, there behind him, will it have a risk? certainly we haven t seen that in the polls so far, but this is a race that s going to be won or lost on the market a tiny little shift of voters could make a big difference in battleground states speaking up, falling in line yes, i spoke to i spoke to a number of the sum of those vulnerable republicans in the house. so people will represent districts that joe biden won some districts even by double-digits. and i asked them, you have a convicted felon at the top of the ticket. are you still going to support now that trump has been convicted, are you planning on supporting him in november versus joe biden yes. yeah i already he voted for him in the primary november the way this is about the american people. i have no issues in supporting donald trump for president the united states. he s the republican nominee on the republican yeah. a lot of my constituents are i think even more than supportive now because democrats went way too far. having a convicted felon and a district like yours hurt republicans. my district school, a very smart people with firm grasp reality. they can smell give a comment that last one was caused the tom king junior who did not respond. the other ones indicated they did look at another political universe you have a candidate who has some baggage. you re vulnerable member, you run away from, you don t want anything to do with them. this is the trump era when republicans are fine, he s a convicted felon. they ll side with his messaging when i was watching that, i was reminded a lot of the dynamics that we saw after the access hollywood tape in 2016 when we did see some on endorsements, but most of the party rally behind him because they know they re the republican lawmakers you talked to. they ve either accepted or maybe are residing to the fact that president trump is their party s nominee. and they know they cannot lose their base of supporters if they want to win they do need to attract the independent voters, which is why they say things like, well, we re supportive of trump, that we don t like the verdict and all that, but let s talk about the economy let s talk about immigration. that s how they tried to broaden their own coalition of voters. and i was just blast for the past manu, but remember when joe heck in 2016 shamelessly on endorse trump on live tv after access hollywood, i remember strategists at the time saying that s kind of where his campaign started going downhill because you really need to cole are really bring together, consolidate your own based first. yeah, good, good reference and then 2012, there s also but it was also the dynamic here is that there are republicans in the swing districts who are fine with endorsing trump than the love vulnerable democrats, vulnerable senate democrats in these purple-ish, even red states. and whether they are going to talk about the trump guilty verdict do you think that i will come back to trump verdict? was did they get this correct? the trump verdict, the jury in new york the jury decision, and they that s their that s their decision. and we ll see with an acceptance, did the jury get it right in new york? sayyed put out a statement. i ve said what i ve said. do you support that meantime, there are republican opponents have come and gone after them with ads. tim sheehy and montana put out an ad saying that jon tester, who s running against them standing on the attacking him for the verdict and sherrod brown is a bone-in tagging him over the verdict in these members don t want to talk about was that tell you well, look, i mean, that s montana now it s the very republican state and job bob casey s from pennsylvania. i think that that s trays and look, i think that this is the tension they re facing. look, i had a story a couple of days ago that was also a bad the biden campaign s outreach beginning to republicans and i think it is definitely the case that republican leaders, current republican leaders please do not want to have any sunlight between them and donald trump, but among a lot of former republican leaders, there is now some connections going on to the biden campaign. and the question that a lot of them raised to me is how many republicans looking voters are there out there who maybe don t want to say it publicly. but who once they go into the voting booth, pulled the curtain tight, we ll actually not vote for donald trump or even vote for joe biden. maybe skip it or vote. that is a huge question. for the rest of the campaign. all right, up next, our first hint is at how trump s verdict is sitting with voters will dive into this week s polling and hero why some voters could be and the brink of switching sides the cnn presidential debates, june 27th, nine live. i m cnn and streaming. and it s never a good time for migraine especially when i m on camera. that s why am i go-to is nortech ott for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura. and there preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. it s the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent all in one don t take if allergic to near taco dt allergic reactions can occur even days after using most common side effects are nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain people depend on me without a migraine. i can be there for them to talk to your doctor about neuro check ott today my name is braden i only 5-years-old when i can thank you seen jim how trains shore and down the story shell, and then having these headaches that want to go away my mom she was just crying what they. said. their son 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all on voters while new polling shows there are some small size of shifts. broadly speaking, it has not made much of a dent in trump s standing, at least not yet. new poll from fox news shows the former president still ahead several key states, except notably in virginia, where the poll shows the race is tied. and of course, president biden won virginia in 2020 by about ten points or panel is back just a little bit deeper than that fox news poll about how independence, what they view, this has an impact in these swing-state, the hush money verdict the guilty verdict their 29% of voters in virginia say it matters up to 44% in florida, then you have the doesn t matter, 68% in virginia, all the way down to 52%, say it doesn t matter now we don t know that that means whether they re going to actually vote or they will vote but it doesn t seem to be. again, not a game changer. look, we always said this was the weakest of all the cases against him. it turns out it s the only one that s probably going to happen before election day and most people say it s not going to change their votes. npr, pbs, marist had a poll, 60 something percent said it won t change their votes, but 17% said they would, and that matters in a battleground state. so it might happen around the edges, but the biden campaign has to figure out how to make it matter. i don t think they re very clear yet on the best way to do that instead, you had actually been speaking to some of these voters throughout the course of these legal cases in your podcasts, you talked to a voter about whether they would switch to biden. this was someone who had said they were going to vote for trump and now will they switch vote for biden now that he s a guilty guilty in this case? so i was thinking along the lines of the january 6. now i m comprising yup. if you went after my mat and you re able to get them on something like that. that might make me change my mind, but this being a big item on i m sorry. it just doesn t sway me. i think it was a crime i am that in another world, if he was another person and nobody would have touched it, would you? this? is an arizona republican voter. cells as mine hasn t changed. yeah, this is part of two groups we spoke to. the first, which includes cart, was people who had set in the october york times paul, that if trump was convicted of a crime, they would change their mind. they would start that they were trump supporters will be open the backing biden was about 7% of people. now, when we call it a lot of those folks back as new york times polling was doing over the last week, almost universally they were having added caveats to that opinion, say, oh, was a different case as kurt said, or maybe if it turned out or maybe the facts were more but they folks weren t really changing because because of this but when we call back to the majority of voters in the general national survey, you did see one to 2% of movement away from by, away from trump toward biden. and so that can to the point about margins make a small difference. but i would caution against saying this doesn t matter at all. donald trump s donald trump s legal problems have been ingested by most people well, and it s part of the reason democrats have done better and things like the midterms as far the reason joe biden has a narrative to tell swing voters in independence, because oftentimes it has come back to hurt donald trump. donald trump is a weak general election candidate, partially because of these things, all of the polling would tell us that republicans will be better served if someone else was at the top of the ticket, how ever because he s going up against another week candidate and joe biden relative to each other. he s still retaining that level of support. so that s what really came through in this poli. and it s not the people did not care about donald trump s baggage, is that it wasn t enough to overcome some of the unpopularity of joe biden. that s what we re seeing. that s a little more deeper rooted. i think some democrats expect, of course, the fact that a lot of these other cases almost certainly will not get reach a verdict november then it shows you that voter may not be swayed. we ll see, but i do want to turn to the other big criminal case. so hunter biden case, the president s son, there could be verdict this week. in fact, the instill question about whether hunter biden will testify. it seems unlikely he will in his own defense in this criminal case what s been we ll see what the fallout is depending on what the verdict ultimately is, what s been notable is there s been a shift a bit in trump s own messaging about this from 2022. now hunter, you got thrown out of the military. he was thrown out dishonorably discharged. that s not true. was it two years. and he didn t have a job until you became vice president. i feel very badly for them in terms of the addiction part of what they have, right now, because i understand the addiction world and i ve also not only a brother, i ve lost a lot of friends to addiction so suddenly he s changed his tune and hunter biden well, like many people saw that moment when the debate that followed that in 2020, when joe biden spoke very personally in viscerally about his son facing addiction and families of the face as one of joe biden s best moments in the campaign. donald trump seems to be responding to that. i think the other thing here is that this case is it s really complicated what happened with hunter biden here. it s not about drug use, it s about the gun charges related to drug use and trump s supporters are trump aides have said that they feel like this is not the kind of thing that they would like to be prosecuting the case on hunter on it doesn t get to the business dealings, it doesn t get to joe biden enriching himself. look, if you re going to get into complicated family dynamics with a lot of children the trump family has some you don t but speaking obviously says personal issue and the president, but politically zero concern in the biden camp about what a guilty verdict may mean for the president november they think that people will view these things separately. well, i think they re trying to make sure that these legal his legal hunters legal cases don t get conflated with what the present for the former president has been convicted of. and they are so different, obviously not only different facts, but hunter s a private citizen donald trump is the republican nominee. what what he does has a direct bearing on the american people, whereas janiot, you can i really argue that. but i think the democrats are really trying to make sure that in the eyes of the public that those two those two issues are kept separate. i think the concern among democrats is just the impact on president biden himself and he is a father. i this is his son going through very difficult moment and a moment of his life. he s got a lot going on this month. he s got the debate coming up. he s got another foreign trip later this week, and just that just weighing on him, i think that is the concern of mine. and democrats. course this past week, you would not pardon. sorry. if he is convicted all right. next is trump s search for a running mate narrowly new details from this week, including whether one possible candidate is drying too just a little too hard bathroom. so musty new fast acting drop-in tab a traps and traps excess moisture, eliminating musty the odor if we weren t proud of the craftsmanship and level of detail that go into every pair of warby parker glasses well, we probably wouldn t show you how they re made including this part which is our favorite wow and this is also great. each pair comes standard with lenses that are scratch resistant anti reflective and uv protective try five peers for free at warbyparker well done, viv, you ve got the presence, the balloons, and the raptor cake now how about something to put a smile on your or face has 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there with the sandra. as your doctor if it s right for you pods spring moving segall has been extended, save up to 25% i m moving in storage until june 10 and cy pods, it s been trusted with over 6 million moves, don t wait, use promo code 25. now to save, look at pot.com today, maria and julio thought their life would never slow down then one day it finally you will make to find inner peace we will make to track flight prices to paradise this making you uncomfortable. good. when you ve got type two diabetes like me, you have up to four times greater risk of stroke heart attack, or worse death even when meeting your a1c goal. discomfort can help you act. i m not trying to scare you. i m empowering you to get real with your health care provider talk to them about lowering your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death this is cnn the world s news it s betting season, that time of year when the presidential standard baer and his team intensify their scrutiny of a possible running mate, several potential trump vp picks have now received vetting materials and two of them, senator joe jd vance, and note dakota governor doug burgum joining trump on a west coast swing this week. trump s as you re announcing his choice at the republican national convention next month and fouls back. okay, mara, your crystal ball, where do you think that trump it lands here. i mean, there s obviously there s a list of running mates. you can see on your screen where it knows it s hard to make predictions, especially about the future and about, and about. look, this is the most normal part of donald trump. this is he picked mike pence last time. totally normal. he wanted the evangelical community. mike pence was the ambassador to that constituency. totally understandable in this case. he has a couple of choices. he can pick a person of color, reach out to minority voters or you can pick doug bergen, burgum and increase his credentials with the business community. some of some of whom are a little nervous about him, or he could double down on maga and go for a jd vance? yeah. what he s gonna do. i don t know. but in the past we know that he s done the normal thing. yeah. that would be a burgum pads speaking of burgum is how the washington post put it broken is viewed by some trump allies, is trying too hard, but trump seems to have genuine personal chemistry with them according to people familiar with the matter, i mean, trump also wants loyalty. obviously, there s anyone does a particularly trump loyalty. trump s all else pun intended. i find it interesting that they think, or they are some advisors think they re doug burgum is trying too hard because so many of these vp candidates are really auditioning without saying they re jacking for the position and you mentioned jd vance and burgum campaigning out with with president trump. jd vance was asked about this. you have tim scott, i believe spending $14 million on an ad campaign. they re doing a lot to try to get that vp slot. they re just not saying that. yeah. there s the question of does it help in other parts of the ticket, tim scott, maybe helps with black voters. trump just got to hello percent supportive blackboards in 2020, at least to phonic. she up with women. he just got 42%. he s gonna do better in both groups, but vice presidential candidates don t always change the equation. yeah, we often have this kind of discussion with them when we know this is going to be probably about the top of the ticket with it does du obviously set up a vice presidential debate between this person and vice president harris. but i think these kind of normal calculations is what donald trump is going through. what we can bet on is the show. he is announcing this as the republican national committee. he s hoping he s hosting an apprentice like trial that was at new hampshire after the primary and when he had people speak one by one and what felt like a live audition process? we can bet on the spectacle of it all, but i do think the kind of traditional political calculus is where a lot of these things, law, it s kind of surprising, actually to see the names live rubio on the list kind of more traditional republican figures. but i think it speaks to someone who feels like he s in a good position to win this election. and this thinking more about consolidation of the party at large, rather then more firebrand type methods could even jd vance isn t as maga as he could have gone over. some people were expecting last year in quickly as it who do you think that the biden team wants trump to pick? they would like someone who doesn t bring in a lot of votes from doug burgum, like are they scared i think that that is much more on people s minds, but i do think that one thing that will be notable here as we go through this drawn out process trump does. is that a lot of these people, doug burgum said that he would not do business with trump. marco rubio said people would come to regret going trump. a lot of these people used to say that trump was terrible yeah. this is her tv absolutely absolutely. great discussion coming up or exclusive sit-down interview with a member of congress diagnosed with debilitating brain disease how she s making history and inspiring others it may show you to hear this, but this is not my real voice pods spring moving sale has been extended, save up to 25% on moving in storage until june 10, and see via pods, it s been trusted with over you re six million moves, don t wait, use promo code 25. now to save, look at pot.com today, my name age braden. i wish 5-years-old when i can changing. how trained short-run gown the story shell, and then having these headaches that when i go away my mom crying what they said, they re saying has brain cancer it was your worst fear coming to life? watching your child grow up is the dream. every parent you can join the battle to save the lives of kids leg braden, by supporting st. jude children s research hospital families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food. so they can focus on helping their child what they ve done for me, my son, my family sorry life is a gift, especially for a child battling cancer call or go online and helps save the lives of children like braden now i m 11-years-old. we were actually doing the checkup for my brain and they they saw something in my throat viroids, cancer it was heartbreaking to find out he has cancer again, but we knew who we have behind us it gives me hope. you can make a difference joined with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month and we ll send you this same as you t-shirt without st. jude or its donors we would have been in a bad place these kids, they ve done nothing wrong in the world finding a cure for talented cancer remains everything helps st. jude give kids with cancer a chance a us bank, we know how good it feels to reach your milestones. but we also know what really goes into getting you there that s why 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from making strides on the hill and making jokes in the process. cnn s capitol hill report or melania zona has the story it may shock you to hear this, but this is not my real voice. once a rising star in the democratic party, congresswoman jennifer waxen, flip house seat in 2018. i ve been saying since the beginning of this campaign that he s is coming to america and changes coming to virginia and that change came tonight. now, a rare brain disease has forced her into early retirement and robbed waxen of the ability to speak but that hasn t stopped her from using her voice. i hope i can show that even instability dating a diagnosis has this doesn t have to mean you are powerless and finding moments of levity and fund helps to last year at 56-years-old wac than was diagnosed with progressive supranuclear palsy to have find incurable disease that impacts about 30,000 americans described as parkinson s on steroids psp affects the brain cells that control balance, walking, speech, and swallowing. we give are you polish shakes when it comes to illness progressive is not a good thing to be as her condition began to rapidly deteriorate, the congresswoman and mom of two learn to adapt last month, weapon became the first lawmaker to use a voice app is to deliver a speech on the house floor, a history-making moment that prompted an outpouring of support, psp makes it very difficult for me to speak and i use an assistive app so that you and our colleagues can understand me she also uses the app to participate in committee hearings. she shows up every time we have a committee hearings. and she represents her people and god bless her people she s representing a getting a hell of a deal with her and so i had to communicate with colleagues and staff in all of the congressional text chains that exist, like she is absolutely like top five funniest waxen isn t the only member of congress using assistive technology senator john fetterman relies on an app to help him process what he s hearing as he recovers from a stroke in my recovery was to the point where now it s really this fetterman was so touched by waxen story that he sent the congresswoman a personal note to let her know that she is not alone. she is inspiring people by being able to perform her job because a lot of million americans have to everyday tasks can still be a challenge for weston, the capitol hill campus has not historically been very ada friendly how have you? he found the institution? do you think it s been adequately equipped to handle people with disabilities? you measure notice how it accessible of place maybe until it s you who relies on the accessibility accommodations. and weston says some of her colleagues now treat her differently. it s especially frustrating and deploying when people mistake my speaking struggles for like cognitive ability. i ve had experiences where well-meaning colleagues always men have approached me seeing hi jennifer, it soon, so like, yeah, of course i know who you are. i ve seen you hear every day for the last five years, the chaotic speaker s race in october took an added one, weston who was forced to miss doctor s appointments because of the grueling schedule that was probably the worst i felt physically and emotionally since i was diagnosed but quitting early was not something like ever seriously he entertained before she leaves congress early next year, waxed as using her platform to raise awareness about brain diseases like psp she organized an advocacy week last month, while the senate recently passed her national plan to end parkinson s disease, she s an inspiration while many would have been discouraged or lost hope with a disease like this, she is endured. she has used her struggled to help others. and now the bill goes to the president s desk, a bipartisan bill named in her honor. what do you want your congressional legacy to be i hope that one day when we have eradicated parkinson s in parkinson s isms, paton leucine even though it was too late for her to help herself. she helped countless others pretty incredible story, thanks to my balloon is known for bringing is that today? that s it for inside politics sunday, you can follow me on x, formerly known as twitter at mk raju fall the show it inside politics. and if you ever miss an episode, you can catch up wherever you get to podcasts, just search for it inside pollak up that state of the union with jake tapper and dana bash dam has guests include us national security adviser jake solvent as well as governors gretchen whitmer and christina no. thanks again for sharing her sunday morning with us. see you next time if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect new periodontics act of gumbert pair breath freshener, clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease a new toothpaste from paradise context, the dom experts. this will be a goldmine of local intel. just you wait so tell us about this corn 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will come back to the weekend. breaking this hour, president biden is closing out his trip to france by paying respect to american service members to commemorate the 80th anniversary of d-day. at any moment, the president and first lady, as we can see entering the helicopter, will depart to visit an american cemetery a half hour outside of paris they will lay a wreath to honor u.s. troops killed in world war i. notably, and 2018, donald trump canceled the trip to the same cemetery. the white house blamed bad weather at the time. trump s then chief of staff later revealed that trump didn t want to go because he viewed the dead soldiers as quote suckers and losers. joining us as our msnbc political analyst. the former under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs. welcome. i m wondering what you think about, obviously the trip to france, the president wrapping it up. i wonder what you think of how this has unfolded from the big speech he gave thursday through his appearance at the state dinner yesterday and then now today. this split screen engagement with the former president in 2018. i thought he performed admirably well and did a careful balancing act between honoring american soldiers on the great sacrifice they made in world war ii and world war i and contest saying that with his predecessor as you said in the story did not go to the cemetery because it was raining and he did not want to mess his hair up. he doesn t understand the sacrifice americans make. part of the reason trips like this are so important is because it does remind voters of the sacrifices we have made. world war ii was a colossal event. and what has happened since then, with nato and with the alliances that biden has talked about, we kept peace for almost longer than any time in human history. people need to know the. biden reminded them of that and reminded them of the alliances we have that have kept the peace and kept prosperity. to the point of reminding americans and others, i want you to take a listen to what the president had to say on saturday in paris. france in the united states have always been there for one another. we stand together when the going gets tough and that is a fact. we stand together to defend the values that light the very soul of both our nations. i believe that to be the case today. liberty, equality, brotherhood, generation after generation, people across both of our nations have recalled these ideals because they know we stand as one and our countries are stronger and literally, the world is safer. put that side-by-side from what we heard in the past from the former president, not just how it relates to disrespected service members but this idea of an america first where america can just go it alone and we do not out need always. don t need allies. as biden reminded us, france was our first ally. the french intercession during the revolutionary war that allowed us to beat the british and become independent. biden is invoking our history of alliance and why that is so important. and trump come as you say come with the america first movement, which means america alone, doesn t want to have any alliances. i know when you are running for president and running in a national campaign, talking about alliances won t get you many boats. but people have to realize that these alliances are what kept america safe and kept our economy thriving. part of the reason the american economy is doing better relative to the rest of the world is our alliance and the globalized economy we have and the amount of immigration we have relative to other countries. it is good to remind people of that and i know it won t win that many boats. i want to continue to press the point. it is such an important part of the conversation that can touch the lives of american people. and i want to address my fellow republicans who are watching and seeing this unfold this week. dan bowles of the washington post noted in the current politics, biden s nationalism has more in common with reagan and republican party than trump residence america first that points to an american retreat from leadership in the world. that is the stark reality that i think biden in this trip this week spoke to much to me. he was trying to push out there, how do you assess this moment in the context of the politics and the political campaigns ahead to move people to consider as part of the other things they consider an election season. the economy on the border and all these things. this sense of our role in the world and the importance of that alliance that we have with our friends around the globe in the face of the authoritarian rise. this happening both in europe and in the u.s. yes, michael. you mentioned ronald reagan s speech 40 years ago at pointe du hoc. i watch that yesterday morning to contrast it with biden s speech. and it is amazing because either man could have given either speech. it was about american commitment, honor, duty, country and the importance of alliances and how american troops had sacrificed for freedom, not only abroad but at home. we have come so far. ronald reagan and joe biden look almost exactly the same when compared to donald trump who is anti- alliances, antidemocracy. we have never had a presidential candidate who was antidemocratic i m not just about wanting to do away with our alliances like nato but as he said, almost getting rid of the constitution. that is why we are at this terrible moment. and i hope you, in invoking republican to might be watching the show he remember ronald reagan fondly and said, can we have someone like ronald reagan well, the closest thing to ronald reagan on the international stage is joe biden. as folks are watching and we are having this conversation, we see the president and the first lady about to take off to below france to visit this american cemetery and memorial and i think what is so striking to me is we are at a pivotal moment for the world where one wrong diplomatic move, folks and american troops, our sons and daughters, could be thrust into the perils of war. right now as we speak, there are american troops deployed all over the world. there are folks helping to train ukrainian soldiers. this is not an ex-essential conversation we are having. i m struck, rick, that the president has put such a focus i remember inauguration day, one of the things the president and the vice president added to their schedule was to go to arlington cemetery and lay a wreath there. he said he wanted to honor american troops and the people who have made the ultimate sacrifice for this country. today, the cemetery they are going to visit, well over 2000 people lie there. again, heroes that gave their lives for the freedoms that we so easily enjoy. yes, symone. he is the president of the united states but also commander in chief. that is what he is showing there. that graveyard of marines that sacrificed to help win world war i, to your point about the decisions we make now or what keep the peace or get us involved in conflict, it was the decisions after world war i and the treaty of versailles with punitive actions against germany by france and britain which brought on world war ii. we did not make some of those same mistakes after world war ii but we got the cold war. we are seeing now what is happening in ukraine which is the first cross-border invasion at that scale from one major country to another since world war ii. how we handle that is what will keep the peace are not or keep our young men and women at home or in uniform abroad. biden has been resolute about aiding ukraine and being anti- vladimir putin. one of the things i learned in government over the years is that succumbing to the russians is not the way to get peace. standing up as a way to preserve peace. thank you so much for your insight. i appreciate your time. next, we are going to mastic. we don t know what to make of a surprising twist in the new york criminal trial? what is going to happen? we are joined by two federal prosecutors to break it down. this is the weekend! clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. are your gutters clogged? cleaning them can be dangerous, mucky, yuck. get leaffilter. it s as easy as one, two, three. call or click today. get your free gutter inspection on your schedule and get leaffilter installed in as little as a few hours. you ll never have to clean out your gutters again, guaranteed. get leaf filter today. call 833 leaffilter or go to leaffilter.com as easy as 1, 2, 3 my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. music unnecessary action hero! relief, prilosec otc. unnecessary. was that necessary? no. neither is missing your daughter s competition to do payroll. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you don t have to miss your daughter s big day. time to shine. get paycom and make the unnecessary unnecessary. i don t want you to move. i m gonna miss you so much. you realize we ll have internet waiting for us at the new place, right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene. transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity. this week, the judge could decide whether or not to look donald trump s gag order in the new york criminal case. the prosecution argued the gag order should stay in place to the sentencing and the completion of all posttrial motions. days after the verdict, michael cohen and his family have become targets of doubts in. probably a lot of gag orders to stay in place. i don t know. joining us are people that do no. we have christy greenberg, the former deputy chief of the southern district of new york criminal division and senior writer for politico magazine. both are former federal prosecutors. walk me through the timeline here on the gag order. both sides are agreeing there should be a briefing here assuming he does not just grant the defense s motion to terminate this which i don t think he will. and prosecutors have an interesting timeline. it is for the defense to respond on june 13th on this thursday and then the prosecutors to respond june 27th which is the day of the presidential debate. it is unclear if the court will agree to that schedule but it is worth noting that the defense argument here is, the trial is over and everyone s interests don t matter anymore. nobody has any concerns. the prosecutors in this brief letter said, hold on a second. we still have to protect the integrity of the proceedings here. there are still threats to jurors. we are seeing great reporting from ryan riley at nbc news about the fact that there are attempts to identify the jurors and to threaten them and that is a real danger. same to the court staff and the families of the prosecutors. the dangers exist and i think they will only increase as we get closer to sentencing at evened after sentencing. i think the judge really should keep the gag order in place through at a minimum, the resolution of these posttrial motions. the one other thing i want to say is that he has also violated the gag order very plainly by speaking about the jury. he said in an interview with greg kelly, the jurors that i knew from their location, i knew i was in deep trouble and they wouldn t even smile at me. that is just a plain violation of a gag order which he knows is still in effect. so 10 violations. s 11th time the charm? he was told he could go to jail. this should be brought up as sentencing by the prosecutors to argue what he should be incarcerated. you had michael cohen yesterday on velsh i kept talking about what has happened to him and his family since then. there is this overwhelming since since. why the hell are we still dealing with this? why is this man still pressing the way he is? this is what michael cohen had to say. let s take a listen. there is no opinion. there is no, i m thinking about it. the documents speak for themselves. it is plain and simple that what he has done, he intends to do again and he is telling you in advance what he intends to do. you are not safe. guys like jeff bezos or elon musk, they think they are safe. no. trump once total power over the united states of america. that is the thing that i know from listening to a lot of folks in that world for that is the end game. it is all these other pieces. the judicial system, which you know very well from your work, is caught up in this and seemingly has not still figured out a way to enforce the power it has to shut down this kind of behavior, this kind of rhetoric and yet falls over itself trying to appear fair and balanced, in which it is, not just on the surface, but below. what is it that is going on right now? the judges sitting here going, i have to think about this. whether it is this case or aileen cannon s case in florida which i think is beyond incompetence. there is also politics. a lot of us are going, the man was convicted. why are we doing the dance? i think what we were saying, you have identified correctly. this mismatch between the traditional legal process in the political process. because even having a gag order that persists past the verdict is very unusual. kristi has correctly identified things he keeps doing that provide the most potent basis to keep it in place. however, if you ask me, and i m curious of your thoughts, i m sure trump is happy to have the gag order in place for as long as possible. because he can go and say, they are muffling me and they won t let me speak and they are trying to restrict my rates. the judge is in a very difficult position. he is not oblivious to this. the way in which the court proceeding has been used and is being used by trump to further his campaign. is a very difficult situation. is a difficult? is it really that hard? it s a real question. would you want to be the first judge to send a former president to prison? yes. i have been black my entire life. yes. let me tell you that when you break the rules, there are consequences. i think that this idea, it s not it is france and israel. it s not an anomaly. people in democracies have figured out in the judicial systems and ways to hold rogue current and former presidents accountable. in america, we seem to think that we are so much better than everywhere else. but we are failing on this. we talked about this a while ago. in my view, trump s railing against the proceedings throughout the trial and even now is increasing the odds materially that the prosecutors will want to put him in prison. tomb my eye, the judge said to let this play out to the sentencing and not take the bait on this. let the record develop itself. one july 11th comes around, that is the time to bring all of this stuff up and say, now is the time, if the judge is inclined, for you to get a sentence that reflects not just the conduct but the egregious way that you conducted yourself throughout the trial. to me, that goes beyond just being the former president of the united states. you put your finger on the thing that i think is at the core of all of these trials. do i want to be the judge? to be the first judge to do x ex-yes, you do. if it is within the rule of law and the facts of the case and that is the appropriate outcome. to me, you are not above the law. if we say you are above the law, then apply the law. and then your behind goes to jail if you get convicted. kristi, what say you? we have been railing against the machine. what do you say, kristi? i agree with you. if you objectively look at the factors taken into account and sentencing, prosecutors should be seeking a jail sentence and the judge should impose one. look at the nature and the seriousness of the conduct. he was told at the closing, we heard from the prosecutor that this was about this version of democracy. it is about depriving the voters of information they would need when they go to the ballot box and decide who to vote for. what is more important than that? he was writing those checks from the oval office. aggravating factor. that is aggravating for the country. this former president and current candidate cama we cannot possibly put in jail. he was committing the crime when he was in the presidency. and in terms of deterrence, it is a charge about election interference. look forward to november of 2024. that is exactly what he is looking to do in the future. you have to deter him and you have to deter the other people that will enable him and send a message with a jail sentence. if there any of the number of other reasons, michael cohen went to jail for the same conduct and he was less culpable than donald trump who was directing him to do it. if it is serious enough for michael cohen to go to jail, it is certainly serious enough for donald trump to go to jail as well. we have more to discuss. please stick around. we will be right back after a break. there is more. election interference cases. this is the weekend. weekend. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. .without the stuff you don t. so, here s to now. boost. first, we did the impossible. then, you ate so many of the impossible that we completely ran out. and now. they re backk! the footlong cookie is back at subway! -dad, what s with your toenail? -oh, that.? i m not sure. -it s a nail fungus infection. -.that s gross! -it s nothing, really. -it s contagious. you can even spread it to other people. -mom, come here! -don t worry about it. it ll go away on its own! -no, it won t go away on its own. it s an infection. you need a 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(mom) my turn. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. on friday, donald trump s former chief of staff mark meadows, pleaded not guilty for his role trying to subvert the 2020 election results in arizona. this came days after three trump allies were charged in the fake elector scheme and wisconsin. of course even as progress is made to hold these officials accountable, election deniers continue to hold positions of power within our government. we are looking at you, mike johnson. joining us now, msnbc national security analyst and former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence and author of the brand-new book, long haul, hunting highway serial killers. kristi greenberg still with us. my friend, good morning to you. when we talk about the fake elector scheme and the fact that it is both about prosecuting what already happened but making sure it doesn t happen again, you have donald trump out there railing against his own prosecution and trying to act as though they are politically motivated. how should americans see this through the lens of national security? a couple of things. this is literally a race within the judicial system and within the law enforcement community to see accountability and justice done before bad actors get in power again. number one moving forward, productive analysis, i m troubled about reporting that says the trump campaign is already hiring and seating within its organization as a priority, people who are prepared to fight and challenge the outcome of the next election. what does that tell me when we were the hiring priority already. it is not so much being prepared that the goal is to win but to do battle over the expected outcome. this tells us we are in for a battle regardless of the outcome. they are going to fight. they will challenge. they will claim it is rigged. we are kidding ourselves if we think we will not see a repeat of the last election. the thing for me, is the fact that there is a counter narrative being pushed out here that i think people may be missing. and it goes a little bit like this. there are efforts in place whether it is inside the rnc or within the trump campaign, that are polluting the political system or judicial systems and setting up what i will call an effective taking of the election by republicans. and give you what we see happening with the rnc poll watching efforts. they re talking about referring up revving up and monitoring elections and putting in place a 100,000 person forced to fight the fictional foe of widespread voter fraud as this aspirational effort. sometimes we focus on things on the top line but we have to pay attention to what is going on on the ground and how institutions are being infiltrated and monitored. and i put that in quotation marks. how do you assess that aspect from both your work in law enforcement as a prosecutor and covering these campaigns and the narratives politically? i think it is worrisome to have this sort of quote, unquote election integrity process being managed under donald trump s campaign with the rnc. there are things they claim to be concerned about but are not practical real-life problems. and i think that in addition to things like poll watching, people looking to not certify results if they don t go the right way. and i think the first line of defense is a political line of defense. it will be up to the biden campaign and the dnc to make sure they are the ones on the front lines in exercising their legal rights to monitor things and go to court and challenge certain processes. in terms of the legitimacy of the outcome, first of all, we have to say it. it may not matter if trump wins out right. if biden wins, i share the concern that there would be a systematic effort to not certify certain precincts and to mount a bunch of challenges that could be very disruptive. along those lines and if that is in fact the case, isn t it not just incumbent upon the campaigns but the secretaries of states and the state attorney general s. i am looking at the fake elector scandal wrapping up more indictment totals. 18 people in arizona elected or indicted. georgia, 19 indicted. wisconsin three were indicted on tuesday. this, to me, demonstrates at the state level, folks are being vigilant about what happened before to hold folks accountable. it seems like i m concerned about the resources they have to go against what the trump campaign is telling us they are going to do. there is every reason to be concerned looking at these indictments. this scheme was just so brazen. looking at the arizona indictment, mark meadows saying, i know donald trump lost but i want to pull this off for him. it is just egregious. you have one of the law students who, in the wisconsin indictment, talking about taking the fake elector slate and transferring it over to a member of congress saying she felt like she was executing a drug deal. these guys knew what they were doing was wrong. they knew they were depriving voters of their votes and they didn t care. the idea that again, we are just getting charges now for actions that happened so many years ago, it is good that it is happening. i m happy that we see indictments and five of these battleground states of over 50 defendants but these defendants also need to know that there will be consequences in order to make sure this doesn t happen again. and given that people are just getting charged, i m not sure they will necessarily be deterred and i think it is a real concern. i want you to listen to what harry dunn had to say on the trail for president biden tuesday. we will use that opportunity to do everything we can to tell our stories and refused to let people forget, downplay, diminish, whitewash or flat out lie about what happened on january 6th. trump, his deranged self- centered obsessive quest for power, is the reason violent insurrectionist assaulted me and my brave colleagues and killed an officer. frank, if people are still lying about what happened on january 6, even though we all saw with our own eyes, how then are we supposed to help people understand the lead up to january 6th? the fake elector scheme and all the efforts that were put systematically in place that led to that day? we no longer have a common agreed-upon truth in america and this is one of those that is being challenged as what was january 6? we literally have different sets of truth and facts and so much so that on the floor of the pennsylvania state house, these officers that saved the day january 6th, were getting booted by some gop representatives at the state level in pennsylvania. these people are heroes. metro d.c. police, capital police literally saved our capital and we seem to not only not agree upon that but rejects any notion that there was organized violence or that the candidate actually incited this as the president. moving forward, if we don t have accountability yet, even though over 1000 people have been arrested for their role january 6, then it could happen again and i m concerned about what i m seeing in private chat rooms of extremists who talk online which is, we are not going to a heavily guarded hard spot like the capital again but we will go to the soft spots at the state and county level as we get to a contested election. thank you so much for being with us. we want to discuss the dangers of speaker mike johnson appointing trump loyalists to a he key house committee. this is the weekend. i love that my daughter still needs me. but sometimes i can t help due to burning and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. nervive s clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as 14 days. now i can help again. feel the difference with nervive. the president and the first lady just arrived in france. a half-hour outside of paris. they are going to american cemetery to pay respects to phone american troops in world war i and participate in a wreath laying ceremony who we will keep an eye out for any remarks by the president and bring you those updates. now back stateside. two trump loyalists sit on the house intelligence committee. scott perry and ronnie johnson jackson were appointed by speaker mike johnson last week despite past scandals and run- ins with the fbi not to mention perry is a bona fide election denier who sought to overturn the 2020 election results. their appointments are already raising national security concerns. frank, i just think this is ridiculous. representative perry s attempts to overturn the election were well documented. we have live footage of the president and the first lady deplaning in france. we won t play any sound. the image we are seeing from the president, and commemorating reverence and highlighting world war ii troops today and the fight against authoritarianism across the world and at home. with what we have happening in the united states congress, some of the same folks that are thought to not just undermine but unravel key pieces of our democratic institutions and now being placed on the committees where america s secrets are held and discussed. this is a stark contrast to what we are seeing now with what we see happening on capitol hill with the intelligence community or committee. and we have a president that understands what it means to have allies that have your back and who you share intelligence with an more importantly, who you share common values with. contrast that with the candidate who is ordering the speaker of the house to put on the key committee come from where i sit, the house intelligence committee, loyalists, not to freedom democracy and allied relations were rather, to him. i m here to tell you that these two appointees to the intelligence committee, ronny jackson and scott perry, would not qualify for a clearance required to wax the floors at fbi headquarters. they don t even go through a background investigation because they are elected officials. now they have access to the most highly classified intelligence in the intel community. as assistant director and head of counter intel at the fbi, i frequently briefed the house intelligence committee and i did not see republicans or democrats on the committee. i saw americans, who were, when they were exposed to the threat and risk in the form of classified, simply wanted to help fight the threat. that is gone. frank, you have a couple things that play that i find very interesting. one being that the speaker of the house appointed these two gentlemen without members of his own caucus knowing that the appointment would be made. certainly members of the intelligence committee, republican members, being made aware that these appointments will be made and two, scott perry s response to the appointment in a tweet he put up. i look forward to providing not only a fresh perspective but conducting oversight, not blind obedience to some facets of the intel community that all too often abuse their powers, resources and authority and spy on the american people. i want to say first congressman that that is a load of crock. the people i know in this space and have worked in the past with, that is not the agenda. frank, you know. you just made the point that you have gone before the committee. what does that say to you that one, the speaker did not even have the appropriate parts to inform his own committee members, republican members, that this appointment would be made and two, to have someone now serving with that attitude that the intelligence community is about spying on the american people and using resources against american interest? i continued to bemoan the erosion, the death by 1000 cuts, of our institutions like the cia, fbi and the department of justice and the dni. they are turning the american people against the key institutions that actually protect the american people. if you are secretly fulfilling an agenda of a candidate that is ordering you to appoint a couple of people to the intel committee, it begs the question of why. why would you not put competent qualified people on the intelligence committee? because they have a secret agenda. not so secret as they said. they won t engage in healthy oversight which i welcome but rather, they will erode the authority of those institutions. and by the way, for example, they also weigh and on budget. if you think they can t have an impact, they can tell the fbi, you are not working this particular program. we don t want to hear about reporting on russia. we don t want to hear about foreign connections to domestic terrorism. stop reporting. stop working those items. and we often wonder what you are up to when you are not sitting with us on national television. we sort of imagine you are in the basement tracking the dark web or listening to the police scanner but it turns out you have instead been writing an excellent book. tell us what it is about. really quick, long-haul, hunting the highly serial killers is the true crime account of the fbi s highway serial killings initiative. even though i prided myself on knowing all the corners of the fbi in my career, i did not know all the details of this program which is 850 murders of women alongside our nation s highways and mostly sex trafficked women over the last few decades. 200 of the 850 cases are considered active and unsolved. the fbi says there are 450 active suspects right now. long-haul truckers that are phenomenal people and are contributing to the economy and the impressive family people are being tainted by the small fraction that are killing women alongside the nation s highways. the challenges that they will grab a victim in one jurisdiction and rape or murderer in a second and dumped the body in the third. i got my investigator had on. i went out on the road and went over 2000 miles in a big rig to get into three subcultures. long-haul trucking, sex trafficking victims and the crime analysts connecting the dots to stop the killing. and credible. thank you so much. his new book is called long-haul. it is on shelves now. and a programming note from us. and prosecuting donald trump witness to history. you can catch an encore presentation tonight. it features accounts to witnessed firsthand. that is tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc and streaming on peacock. we will be right back! so am i. because i m at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. come on. i already got a pneumonia vaccine, but i m asking about the added protection of prevnar 20®. if you re 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. prevnar 20® is approved in adults to help prevent infections from 20 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. in 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conservatively. and lyndon johnson and you go down that road and now you know where we are. i m sorry. indeed. your eyes and ears do not betray you, symone. that was republican congressman byron donald s of florida romanticizing the jim crow era last week. his remarks met with swift pushback from democratic leadership. the congressman said his words were taken out of context. we see a debate on the matter with reverend al sharpton. i m giving you the benefit of the doubt. but look. you were born in brooklyn and you went to the cell. you want to florida state. you have an interracial marriage. your the congressman of the district that is not a black district. how can you even live with yourself acting like jim crow was a good arrow or better arrow for blacks what would happen to you? that is really cute. right now you are lying about what i said. i did say jim crow . four times. that is not to say it was better never said the words didn t come out of my mouth. when will you get that through your school and everybody elseschool. i would like to know who he was talking to when he thought he could speak to reverend sharpton like that. who did he think he was talking to? if we play the tape coming in again, he said during jim crow, black families were together. and they were. because they were segregated. that is why they were together. brother, all you had to do was say, i don t know why i brought up jim crow. that is my bad. that is not what i was trying to say at the moment. but here i am and now i have to clear it up. that is what he should have done. you don t double down on jim crow. you just don t. you can t convince black people or anybody else that we were better off and a segregated society where you are behind would not have even been allowed in congress and certainly would have had questions about who you socialize with. so, look. black folks, i don t care if you are republican or democrat. you have to keep it real about what we went through. what our parents and grandparents went through. i grew up in washington d.c. which was still segregated. my mama couldn t take me to certain parks in d.c. because of jim crow. and yet, i sit where i sit now, despite that. i m not going to forget that though and i m not going to try to romanticize it and pretend that somehow my mama and i were better off when she couldn t take me to that park. so just stop it. and especially black republicans. stop this crap. let s be honest about it i mean i m curious symone if you thought the message was for black americans or for white americans. exactly. i m looking to say, who was the message for. i m sorry to curse on a sunday morning, lord. but i was having a conversation this week about black engagement and black voters and the diversity of sentiment among the african american electorate. especially as we talk about black men but also black women. black people are not a monolith. no group of people of color are a monolith. i believe we need republicans. i believe we need independence. i don t think everybody should be a democrat or progressive in this country. i still say does my father is no longer with us but i said, i think you are republican and you are just telling me that you are an independent voter. my daddy was a 64-year-old black man from mississippi. that being said, yes. there is a diversity of sentiments but i think people need to be honest about history and about what has happened and about what we know to be true and when you conflate history and you don t speak the truth in order to twist yourself up into a pretzel to appear more palatable, because that is what byron donald s was doing. trying to sanna size or romanticize or whitewashed jim crow. so that his message seems more palatable for people who not black people but everybody else. and i do not respect people. especially people who know better. we talked about marco rubio and tim scott, the senators, a couple weeks ago, but what they ve been saying about the criminal justice system and so on and so forth. as a black elected official, especially a black man as reverend sharpton said from brooklyn, who knows better, he has a responsibility to speak the truth. and as they like to say, i think that face says it all. coming up on velshi, ali will be talking about donald trump s starts of her division and the potential of the dangers of the second trump term. that is coming up. we will be right back! 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[sniff] still fresh. get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. try for under $5! higher shipping rates may be “the cost of doing business.” but at what cost? turn shipping to your advantage. with low cost ground shipping from the united states postal service. -unnecessary action hero . the nemesis. from the united states postal service. -it appears that despite my sinister efforts, employees are still managing their own hr and payroll. why would you think mere humans deserve to do their own payroll? because their livelihoods depend on it? because they have bills to pay? hear me now, paycom! return the world of hr and payroll to its rightful place of chaos or face a tsunami of unnecessary the likes of which you have never seen! norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? i m really sad to say, that does it for this weekend s version of the weekend. we hope to see you back here next saturday at 8:00 a.m. eastern and be sure to follow the show on social media at the weekend msnbc. in the meantime, we ve got our brother velshi, ali velshi and velshi starts right now. for some people it is like, this is friday, the end of the week. you get to do other things but i m also sad we are not going to see this week. eight i enjoy it
he was different, he wrote in his sk confessions. he simply could not feel anyone. and so, intentionally or not, he offered a dismal reason for murdering a perfect stranger. it was a single line at the end of that horror movie of his house of cards when the killer tells his wife the best way to succeed is to write what you know. this is this is someone at a park at 3:00 am. i am andrea kncanning and this is dateline. i can t believe she would meet someone at a park at 3:00 a.m. i think she knew the second she got in his car that something was wrong. a college student disappears. i d like to have a wellness check done on my daughter. a secret life and covered. she was looking for sugar daddies. going into it blindly is not something i would recommend. chilling details revealed. selected her as his victim? correct. the bottom of the dig site, there was a damaged iphone. maybe clothing, there was a sinking feeling, really. i replay this one night and i went to grab her and say do not do it. do not go. hello, and welcome to dateline. college student mackenzie lueck was diving into adulthood, eager to find her path. her family and friends knew her as fun, responsible, and always careful. then, one night she vanished. a trail of electronic clues helped investigators retrace our steps and exposed a dark underworld where evil was hiding behind webs of lies. here is keith morrison with the waiting car. our minds have a curious way of deceiving us. we cents something is off or wrong or even terrible. and yet, something in the brain wants to believe the worst did not happen. kennedy knows that feeling well . i was pushing away from mike gut instinct. i am not sure why. i never imagined this ever happening to one of my friends. i wouldn t think you would want to imagined. or anyone you know. my mind did not go there. she told herself it would be fine as she reached out from her home in salt lake city. messages to her friend mackenzie lueck. i saw she was opening my snap chats. i texted her and did not get a text back. this is stupid but i was wondering if she was mad at me for something. the mind wants a simple explanation. she knew her best friend was grieving. her grandmother had recently passed away. i know she was heartbroken over that. they are all very close. she was at the funeral. she left utah and went to the funeral. i thought maybe she took a few days of social media. mackenzie s parents had not heard from her either. after three days of escalating fear, her dad made that most dreadful phone call to the salt lake city s police department. yeah, i d like to get, if possible, have a wellness check done on my daughter. i ve been trying to get a hold of her and her phone goes to voicemail. i was wondering if somebody could go by her house and check on her? the story her dad told was this. on the night of sunday, june 16, 2019, mackenzie boarded a flight from los angeles back to utah, arriving in salt lake city around 1:35 a.m. monday. at 2:01 a.m. she texted her mom to say she landed safely. after that, three days of silence. two patrol officers went to her townhouse. her car was in the driveway. that was a good sign. repeated knocks at the door however went unanswered. peering through a window, the officer saw nothing. not a soul around. they called mackenzie s dad to report the news. next, the officers found mackenzie s friends, boss, and professors . none of them had seen her. all reasons why by the end of this unsettling day mackenzie s case was referred to a place that sounded serious indeed. the salt lake city police department s homicide squad. get a lot of missing person cases in salt lake city. lieutenant mitchell was the chief detective. i tried to sit through those to find the ones that raise the hair on the back of your neck for lack of a better term and this raised the hair on the back of my neck. i decided we need to take action now and at least start an initial investigation. truth be told, most reports are easily resolved. missing person may have lost their phone are decided to take a break from some family drama. that did not appear to be the case with mackenzie. the relationship she had with her mom and dad would be the envy of most parents. they were always contacting each other. they would send silly text back and forth. the detectives led the missing persons investigation even though their specialty was murder. a usual homicide investigation, there s a dead body. we re starting was something. we are moving backwards and in this case we started with nothing. they pulled the airport surveillance camera footage on the night of mackenzie s disappearance. sure enough, there she was. it was not out of the ordinary. we saw her come out of the terminal and we followed her to baggage claim she picked up her luggage. seemed perfectly normal. casual. nothing out of the ordinary that we could see. the last clip shows mackenzie like so many passengers getting into a car outside of baggage claim. the identity of the driver? a mystery. news of the police investigation quickly spread among mackenzie s friends. the second i heard about that, my stomach dropped. kennedy launched her own investigation. i went on facebook. i dropped pictures of us and i said she is missing. if you know anything, reach out to me or police. i thought she was still in california until i saw kennedy s message. ashley, another one of mackenzie s college friends put a perrone post. i take to rent it and because i take her facebook, some of her other family members reached out to me. what family members? a distant cousin. one who lives in utah. i said, you know, i have a feeling that she took a lyft share and i feel strongly that she did that. you are worried something happened in that car. definitely. ashley and the cousin called lyft and uber to see if someone it picked up mackenzie at the airport. that s when this began because they let it slip, lyft did, that she got in a lyft that night. what did you do? we contacted law enforcement about the lyft. a big break. because it gave them probable cause to serve lyft with a search warrant. find out where she was dropped off, what time she was picked up. where did she go? we got the destination from the airport to a north salt lake address and she was dropped off at hatch park just before 3:00 a.m.. a park at 3:00 a.m.? why would mackenzie come here? just as important, why would a driver leave a young woman alone, burden with luggage at a park in the middle of the night? who would do such a thing? it was the detective s job to track down the driver. who she discovered was not so easy to find. is this guy dodging us? coming up. mackenzie s friends have a terrorizing terrifying theory. abducted her. here is one reason why. her last text message we recovered was at 2:58 prior to her arriving at the location. that was the last activity ever we had on her phone. one. and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn t be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don t take wegovy® if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop wegovy® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. tell your provider about vision problems or changes, or if you feel your heart racing while at rest. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. call your provider right away if you have any mental changes. common side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i m losing weight, i m keeping it off. and i m lowering my cv risk. that s the power of we. check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. are you still struggling with your bra? it s time for you to try knix. makers of the world s comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com keith morrison (voiceover): abefore mackenzie lueck, disappeared in june 2019, a disturbing before mackenzie lueck disappeared in 2019, a disturbing story had gotten national. several stories. about women being assaulted by using lyft or uber. at least 14 women are filed a lawsuit against the ride share giant. mackenzie s friend imagine something like that or worse. i assumed the driver abducted her or maybe they were in a car accident and the car had driven off the road. the detectives felt it was a possibility too. they wanted to find that elusive driver who gave mackenzie a ride the night she vanished. we wanted to know if he would be a suspect or not. he was nowhere to be found. just as odd? mackenzie s phoned the detectives learned was turned off just as her right came to an end. her last text message we recovered was at 2:58 prior to her arriving at the hatch park location. that was the last activity ever we had on her phone. on the morning of june 22, six days after mackenzie went missing, the detective finally tracked down mackenzie s lyft driver. he said there was not a lot of conversation. he did recall her being on her phone but did not know who she was talking to. was a fully cooperative? oh, yes. he didn t seem like he had anything to do with this at all. because he had an alibi, a very good one actually, as soon as he dropped mackenzie off, surveillance footage captured him leaving to pick up another ride. the date and time and location confirmed by the tracking software on his lyft app . he continued that through the night. so you could eliminate him pretty easily based on the fact he was elsewhere. she was smiling. she was in good spirits. mackenzie s lyft driver told police and later us that he remembered the weird drop off location. even mackenzie commented on that, he said. saying how it was odd to be dropped off in the middle of the night at a park. he said he wasn t too worried because someone with a car was there waiting for mackenzie. i unloaded her luggage and said good-bye and drove away. who was this someone in the waiting car? the detectives were hoping they could identify him or her through mackenzie s phone records. and, she had been texting and number with a 206 area code right up to the point her phone went dead. we were able to take that number and run it through our database and it came back as absolutely nothing. didn t come back to anybody. had to be a burner phone. s whoever that was didn t want anyone to know in official capacity. it was obvious at that point. according to the lyft driver, whoever met mackenzie at the park made no effort to conceal their identity from her. to the contrary. he seemed to know each other pretty well. i think all i heard was how are you doing? how was your trip? basic greetings. it seemed very safe. she knew the person that she was getting in the car with. did mackenzie caught a ride with someone she knew was good and bad news. the good news is it but maybe mackenzie went off with a friend somewhere. the bad news? because there was no proof of a crime, detectives lost the ability to get additional search warrants. we lost our probable cause that a crime had been committed. just like that. because of what the lyft driver said, you can t get warrants? correct. that was hard and it slowed the investigation at that point because we didn t have a crime to attach to it. it was still a missing person investigation. the detectives were blocked from getting detailed phone records which, theoretically, would have shown who mackenzie was texting. who was this friend mackenzie met at the park ? where did they go? investigators are about to uncover fresh clues that deepen the mystery, but also give mackenzie s loved ones a glimmer of hope. coming up. one place mackenzie was not missing was on social media. different people saying, i m looking at her site and it showing she s actively online. her bank account was active too. too. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? keith morrison (voiceover): so many questions. why did mackenzie go to a park eight miles from home so many questions. why did mackenzie go to a park eight miles from home at 3:00 a.m. no less? who did she meet? it made no sense that her friend ashley. i can t believe she would meet cement at the park at 3:00 a.m. it is so unlike her? it is? because mackenzie like most of her sorority sister talked a lot about safety. i have been out with her a lot of times. she has always been extremely safe. she has texted me after going out at night and say, did you make it home? are you okay? you would exchange things to keep each other safe? yes. ashley met mckenzie almost four years earlier. she was shyer than you would think she would be. she would make anyone laugh. kennedy met mckenzie and college. her family doesn t live here . she had a job. she was going to school. she was checking off everything that a responsible adult would have on their checklist, i guess. mckenzie grew up near los angeles, el segundo, and she was raised in the church of latter-day saints, but when she came to the university of utah to study kinesiology, according to ashley, she didn t exactly remained about. i know she was registered here. i heard she was never active and that made sense to me because i think she wanted to find her own path. you saw her changing in recent times? in what ways? i think she was trying to almost gain confidence in security intercell bench she would write yourself a note saying how she wanted to feel more confident because i think she realized she was shy and wanted to be more outgoing and meet people. she wanted to explore dating and it might not be how everyone else thinks dating should be. ashley is getting at, mckenzie was active on dating sites. so much so that by june 22, the sixth day after her disappearance, detectives had received several phone calls from some of the men mckenzie met online. mainly to say they had nothing to do with her disappearance. nowadays, that s how people meet people. while it was of significance because it gave us one more thing to look at, it was not this huge red flag either. was mackenzie on a lark with a guy she met online? a hookup she wanted to keep secret from her devoutly religious parents? that seemed far more likely than a kidnapping scenario. she could ve gone camping or with a friend where they would lose cell service and it would be out of the ordinary. once they did checking around, the camping idea seemed less likely. standard procedure, they looked up airline flight records and discovered mackenzie had been booked on a flight out of town to las vegas. maybe she was there and meanwhile, the detectives begin to see activity on her bank account and something is. different people saying i m looking at her site and its showing she s actively online. maybe she was fine, ignoring the fuss or zoned out entirely unaware. we were hopeful. when people go missing, even if it s on their own accord, they are making transactions were paying for stuff. we were hopeful there would be further transactions so we could find her. not far from the police station, kennedy and ashley hosted a rally to make sure everyone in salt lake city knew to be looking for mackenzie. this girl is missing and we are looking for her. we think she is in danger. but, was she? june 23, detectives learned mackenzie had a flight booked for that day, traveling from las vegas to los angeles. to attend a friend s waiting. she would not miss that. we contacted lapd and they had officers waiting for that flight to land. they waited for all the passengers to deplane. mackenzie was not among them. then, they learned this. it was not mackenzie who had been logging into her social media accounts. that had been her friends. they obtained her email and password and they were not doing it to ruin things. they were trying to monitor the sites as well to see if any information would come up. the activity on her bank account? lyft transaction and a automatic payroll deposit from work. them the detectives got a tip from this guy. he may be bring those blurry details into sharp focus. coming up. i got on the computer and within an hour, i found her profile. the world of sugar babies. i think it s more embraced for women to be up front about what they will need and want. did mackenzie know what she was getting into? nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. i m richard lui. israel saying they rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza who had been kidnapped by hamas during the music festival on october 7. officials say more than 200 palestinians were killed by airstrikes nearby marking one of the bloodiest single days and eight months of war. president biden and the first lady attended a state dinner in paris hosted by the french president. he s wrapping up his trip commemorating 80 days since the day. where was mackenzie lueck? welcome back soto dateline. i am andrea canning. where was mackenzie lueck? the college student took a lyft to meet someone at the park at 3:00 a.m., but who? mackenzie was active on dating sites making police wonder for the right late night rendezvous was a hookup and radio silence was intentional. a tipster was about to share troubling details about his encounter with mackenzie before she went missing. here is keith morrison. a few weeks before mackenzie lueck vanished, a chance meeting at a bar with this man. rob joseph. she seems like a bright, bubbly girl. friendly. they talked for more than an hour he said, or she did, while he listened. rob is an ex-salt lake city cop, private i now which he told her. if you message your and x copper pi, everyone wants to tell you their dark secrets or risky behaviors. you would be surprised. people want to tell you things you do not want to hear check. he only saw mackenzie that one time, he said. did not get her phone number. i did not offer my number. that was that, he said. he did not expect to see her again. three weeks later, mackenzie was missing . rob said the friend who was with him at the bar that night made the connection. he mentioned, that girl we met at the bar, that s the girl that went missing. of course, rob remembered the friendly college student and the secrets she revealed to him that night. i don t know if she was seeking approval or advice or recommendation. how did she put a? she said she was on a dating site and she was looking for sugar daddies. and i said which one? she said seeking arrangement. designed to connect young women with prosperous old men. rob no lot about dating sites. he is a pi. he figured if mackenzie was missing, that might have something to do with it. i got on the computer and got done seeking arrangements and within an hour, two hours, i found her profile. there she was. beach baby 96. what was interesting about her profile is it was authentic and honest. she was a hiding who she was. she was pretty specific, a 23- year-old grad student studying kinesiology. california girl. likes to drink wine and go out and travel. looking for somebody to do that with. a little more pg than some of them? yeah. he sent to screenshot to the police department. it was another avenue we had to look at and track down anyone who might ve been in contact with her. mackenzie it appeared had compartmentalized information about her life. the plane ticket to las vegas had been paid for by a man she had met through seeking arrangement. a $300 deposit from one of her bank accounts? that was from one of her other dates she had been owned that she had received a payment from. that was prior to her going to her grandmother s funeral. her friend ashley said she did not have a clue. i didn t know anything about her being on this i. she didn t talk about it? not with me. kennedy wanted to avoid the subject altogether but acknowledge the seeking arrangement is well known on campus. the site is not unfamiliar to a lot of women in college. everybody knows of this site. seeking arrangement was founded in 2006 by a self- proclaimed nerd and mit grad brandon wade. he declined our interview request but in this 2016 today show story, he said he came up with the idea as a way to meet young women. the average sugar babies roughly 27 years old. 50% are college students. they are ambitious and beautiful and they are on the website because they want to find someone who is successful it will help them or spoil them. we are living in a culture where it s much more accepted and embraced for women to be up front about what they need and want. this journalist writes about sex and culture and sees sugar as a form of female empowerment. to hold power in a way that s open that is less stigmatized than it has been in the past. they see this as holding power? i see it as powerful. explained that. when you go when a relationship saying this is what i need and if you cannot give me this, i will move on, is a powerful thing to say. there is debate about this weather it empowers young women or exploits the innocent. i mean, a lot of people who go into it are seriously so blind to the whole reality of what it is. like mackenzie, she came from salt lake city and a seeking arrangement profile but unlike mackenzie, she told us she was anything but a newbie when we spoke to her in 2019. at the time, the twentysomething had been with a sugar daddy for six months, and he was 63. do you mind telling me how much he pays you? my allowances 1200 a month. she said it took her a long time to find an arrangement. you have to fish through all the guys who they are like, let s meet at a hotel. have sex until give you money. i said, that s a prostitute. shades of gray can be confusing for anybody she said let alone a novice on seeking arrangement. i have seen girls who have had sugar daddies and they re not the same afterward. did you read mackenzie s profile? yes i did . she came from a sheltered upbringing. that made it more dangerous for her? most definitely. going into a blindly is not something i would recommend. at all. let s talk sugar. this episode is all about getting ready for your sugar date. sugar arrangement makes with a call let s talk sugar videos. offer advice to novice sugar babies giving advice and tips on how to ask for an allowance for what to pack in your purpose. perfume they say and pepper spray. not that you will need it, but looking hot is always a risk. did mackenzie watch the videos? we do not know. one of her decisions betrayed her lack of experience. why would you meet in the middle of the night in a park? there was something else whether mackenzie did it or the person she met, we don t know. remember, right after the driver dropped her at the park, someone turned off mackenzie s cell phone which happens to be contrary to seeking arrangement s most important rule. never get stuck phoneless. that is your lifeline. mackenzie lost her lifeline, but before it went silent, she was busy texting . soon, investigators would follow her digital trail to the elusive man who received those messages. coming up. we have an ip address that comes to his residence. tracking text messages. he said i have an open wi-fi because i run and airbnb business. it tip from a concerned neighbor. you can feel it, when your dream becomes a pursuit. and with vitiligo, the pursuit for your pigment is no exception. it s time you had a proven choice to help restore what s yours. opzelura is the first and only fda-approved prescription treatment for nonsegmental vitiligo. proven to help repigment skin over time. restoring what s yours. it s possible with a steroid-free cream that you can apply yourself. opzelura can lower your ability to fight infections including tb or hepatitis b or c. serious lung infections, skin cancer, blood clots, and low blood cell counts occurred with opzelura. in people taking jak inhibitors, serious infections, increased risk of death, lymphoma, other cancers, and major cardiovascular events have occurred. the most common side effects were acne and itching where applied. repigmentation is possible. ask your dermatologist today about starting or refilling opzelura. pursue it. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions. like what is your glucose and can you have more carbs? before you decide with the freestyle libre 3 system know your glucose and where it s heading no fingersticks needed. now the world s smallest and thinnest sensor sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. the #1 cgm prescribed in the u.s. try it for free at freestylelibre.us stay ahead of your moderate-to-severe eczema. and show off clearer skin and less itch with dupixent, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, that helps heal your skin from within. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don t change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. ask your eczema specialist keith morrison (voiceover): detectives in salt lake city were trying to find out if mackenzie lueck s disappearance was voluntary or not. detectives in salt lake city were trying to find out if mackenzie lueck s disappearance was voluntary or not. remember the flight she was supposed to be on to los angeles? they found out it had been paid for by a sugar daddy. remember, mackenzie was not on the flight. they found out she was not on the one to vegas either. it was at that point we were able to say, we have enough we can build probable cause backup and start serving search warrants again. off they went in search of the mystery person mackenzie was texting the night she vanished. spent with a 206 area code, conversations going well before she left l.a. to all the way to where she ended up in hatch park. the digital trail eventually led them to a wi-fi router at the salt lake city house. owned by a man named ayoola ajayi . aj, x national guard, successful tech worker, part- time model. police knocked on his door. talked with him and found he was friendly, helpful. sure, he said he had girlfriends but mackenzie? they showed him a photo . he said he d never seen that lady before. why, the police asked did mackenzie get texts routed through his home wi-fi system. he said i have an open wi-fi because i run an airbnb business. it could be anybody. did he run an airbnb? he did. he rented it two bedrooms in his basement. they looked around and saw nothing amiss and left. then, the same evening, aj stopped by the police station to say he discovered something. turned out he had texted with mackenzie lueck the night he disappeared. he said he had forgotten because mackenzie reached out to him without identifying herself. ab, he said, she had seen his seeking arrangement profile. so, i think that s how she met on my profile. she texted your number? said he had no idea who it was. you are saying that s the only messages you got from her? that i can remember. there is a possibility that i ve talked to her in the past. she blew him off, he said. he forgot all about her. he told that story with so much confidence. too much maybe? we had two different things. an ip address to his address and now we know he has solely contact with her. except there was no proof that mackenzie had abducted by aj or anyone else . he was free to leave. before doing so, he gave the detectives his cell phone number in case they needed to get a hold of him. the number actually registered in his name. remember, police did not have that before. they just had the bogus 206 number used by the texting app. now, with his personal cell number, they could get a search warrant for his call records and tracking data. two days later. we got the confirmation back that mackenzie s records were showing her going from the airport to hatch park and aj s records were showing going from his residence in meeting up at hatch park at the exact same time. that was enough to get a warrant to search his home where investigators noticed a mattress was missing from the bedroom and there was a strong smell of bleach. they spoke with a concerned neighbor, her face blurred in this police video. wanted the police to know the aj the week before started an will legal backyard trash fire. she described it as being offensively smoky and very odorous. debris flew into the neighbor s yard. it looked like there were clothing, pieces of vinyl or something. what was it like when this discovery was made? it was a sinking feeling, really. it s like we want to know what happened but we don t want to know what happened. if it s what we think, we don t want to know if that happened if that makes sense. coming up. that was probably the hardest part was watching him walk out the door that night. hard for detectives but it gave mackenzie s friends reason to hope. maybe mackenzie was still alive and he was hiding her. the police let him go. and oft. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. welcome back. police finally discovered who mackenzie lueck was texting welcome back. police finally discovered who mackenzie lueck was texting before she went missing. a man who went by aj. he told detectives they never met in person but cell phone tracking data placed them at the same park at the same time mackenzie vanished. now, investigators were closing in on the suspect, but are they getting closer to answering a crucial question? where was mackenzie? here is keith morrison with the conclusion of the waiting car. police looking for mackenzie lueck had heard a disturbing story. from a neighbor who said ayoola ajayi set a suspicious fire . the neighbor had found debris in her backyard. so, they looked in aj s backyard and found something else disturbing. a freshly dug patch of soil. they called in a cadaver dog which gave the unmistakable signal. human remains. aj who had been call me watching from his driveway was taken into custody. a team from the crime lab spent the night digging up the backyard. they found more burned clothing. purses, backpacks and toward the bottom of the dig site, there was a very burnt and damaged iphone. the medical examiner identified human tissue. just fragments, mind you. they could not be certain who or even what they had exactly. we had these tissue sample or pieces, and so, in order to arrest somebody, that needed to be confirmed. we knew that would take time. so, without solid proof a murder had been committed, they reluctantly let aj go. that was probably the hardest part was watching him walk out the door that night. mackenzie s friends heard he was released and took it as a sign of hope. that maybe mackenzie was alive and he was hiding her. the police let him go the next day. then at daybreak, detectives got a call from the state crime lab about the remains found in the backyard. they were able to identify that as being consistent with mackenzie. the s.w.a.t. team took aj into custody and police called a press conference to arrest his arrest. we are filing charges of aggravated murder in the homicide of mackenzie lueck. kennedy was watching on her cell phone. i almost blacked out or something. i dropped my purse, my phone, and i dropped to the ground on the street. i was bawling. i couldn t even believe it. i still can t believe it. but the detective s work was not done although they found human tissue in the fire pit and linked it to mackenzie, they had not found her body. the investigation continued and , once again, aj s personal cell phone gave him away. remember when he first spoke to police about mackenzie? the very next day his cell phone pinged its way up into these mountains. two hours north up at logan city and then goes partially up to the canyon then returns back to salt lake city a couple hours later. that was odd to us. had he, a nervous killer, exhumed her body from the backyard fire pit and reburied her up.? they set off to search logan canyon. it took the better part of the day until we found her. that s got to be another tough part of your job. it was horrific. it was a sight none of us wanted to see. the search for mackenzie was over. the investigation was not . in the weeks following, a woman came forward to say she had been sexually assaulted by aj a year earlier. at his residence, the same or mackenzie was killed. she said she met him through dating app, a religious one. aj was charged with aggravated kidnapping enforceable sexually abuse. evidence of what he did to mackenzie was growing . and, finally, october 7, 2020, ayoola ajayi pleaded guilty to murdering mackenzie lueck. as part of the plea deal, he admitted he thought about killing mackenzie and then he planned the killing of mackenzie . a thoroughly premeditated murder. he knew he was going to murder mackenzie before she even touched down at the airport. he selected her as his victim? correct. was there any explanation of what his motivation was? he never offered any reasoning of why or even how. ajayi pleaded guilty to sexually abusing his first victim. he was sentenced to life without parole. one more thing so the detectives, he was active on the seeking arrangement site right up until he was arrested. even after we made contact with them, he was still on that page. still trying to get a date. we don t know why. some selfish jerk used his position on a dating website to somehow ensnare this bright, pretty woman, and for what? you look at profile pages on the sites, and he comes across as a gentleman. something he is not. that is the cautionary tale is are they really are who they say they are? always, she had been surrounded by people who loved her, worried about her, cared about her. mackenzie lueck was an innocent. setting out if only for a moment to explore new possibilities. unaware that in the world she was centering, the innocent can also be pray. hi m craig melvin and this is dateline. my parents were supposed to help these kids. you would expect this to be a good christian place. no parent would have sent their
the latest bizarre food trended making the rounds of social media kcal bars smothering catch up yes and the skills here you go. and this is for you. no no no. this is a break me off moment, these are made it to be shared. that s not possible, that is not possible. the vertex, the vertex, charlie. no no no. i think the thing to do is you look awfully cancer first and then you eat the chocolate. this is an improvement on catch up. and the dozen for us and we will see you tomorrow the big we can show starts right now. mark: hello america i am mark levin and this is life, liberty & levin saturday powerful show and superstar the house of representatives, and professor stephen calabrese, from northwestern university law school in one of the lawyers be on the challenge of jack smith the special counsel unconstitutional appointment will be really fantastic at and before you do that, what you something little bit differently tonight. at which go biden and orbiting of the day giving his speech and i was appalled obviously he said some very important things about his politicization on the 80th anniversary take a shot at donald trump trump actually lying about with donald trump said, in doing so very nasty way, and the negative thinking to myself, there is a man, standing at nobody, the day, company standing it morgan state college in front of black male students are at howard, what is giving speeches generally stretching the united states and talking about how our history has been horrific and we do not have equality of opportunity. an effective never this been giving inspiring patriotic pro- american speech in his life. the speech that he gave it d-day were d-day accord become of them will never go down in history as it rate speech and only back and listened to president trump s speech of the 75th anniversary and it was hearing a beautiful. it was patriotic it as i went back in the listen the reagan speeches i think a magnificent speech in a beautiful speech, biden is not up to being president of the night 60s even worse letting the leader and he does represent the values and the belief system of the american people and he represent take french radical group. in the negative thinking about bernie sanders than others and aoc and omar in that whole ilk and what they say about the american people in our country, and to think about the american immediate day in and day out with crt di, teresa the world of the jake tapper s of the world and so forth as it is so horrendous, the disconnect, between the american needed most of it, the disconnect between the disconnect between the democratic party, the president of the leadership, and we the people of america, kenobi bigger. i wanted you a little story and we were attacked at pearl harbor, three-minute that i know up with quickly to try to join the war effort coming to protect our country when at that my mother s father, grandfather as it was maurice rubin and he hated his name so he collects of he was 34 years old right of the limited. any joined the marines. any phonic wall develop long brutal battle and went on from july 21st, till august 10th of 1944, was 2000 of her mental killed, there were 6000 wounded it, but that was nothing end of it. and he was in the fifth division of the marines. and this is his platoon. you can see the mid- in this platoon i think it was 13 if i recall. you can see him there and i want you to look at the picture the vast majority of those men died at iwo jima than to begin moment i want you to look at them if you do they sing fight entered like they are privilege addict what they are not privileged grandfather was born report. his parents came over from russia. with nothing. everything that he had a word for there was no welfare state. but he loved his country. to the court and the battle at iwo jima, 6800 americans died of that island it in 19000 over 19000 casualties in the battle went on from february 19th to march 265 six weeks and look at the casualties, there were more medal of honor recipients as a result of that engagement of 27 in any battle in american history from the fifth marine division of the division, other marine divisions, animals 2500 died and there were 6000 wounded. they sustain the heaviest loss losses. my grandfather was a patriot. when he came back, from that war, his hands shook. he lost his voice. any spoke like this the rest of his life read remember when i first met my grandfather committees about 6-foot 3 inches tall big man and even an amateur boxer was a tough guy and remember he walked in the house the four big sticks along brown leather coat and a chihuahua in his pocket. [laughter] that he gave to the family a chihuahua puppy is a gift card that was my first memory of him. and of no white supremacist pretty any of the patriotic american. in the latter years of his life, he lived in quietly. diabetes, it is his foot removed and so forth and so on her stories are not unique and i want to tell you about another minute or family by the way is brother, his brother-in-law, sister s husband, named kevin at synthetic he joined the marines the same date, and he fought on the solomon violence, and the canal, and he was a big tough man with big hands and this what i remember. and to tremendous patriots, tremendous patriots and there was my father, and am telling you this for a reason because american families all over this country have gone through the ups and american citizens, houthis and respected by their government and who deserve respect for the president. from there to have it for families it tapped over and over again and lies told about the projection of racism on top of them for the racism the biden family practice in the racism joe biden practice in the senate, and it had nothing to do with my father my grandfather my great uncle are my family, nothing. this on biden and on july 4th 1937, my father jack, then 12 years old, and a neighborhood but he walked it several miles from their homes, the parade route with the city philadelphia was already donations founding father route stretch from center city philadelphia, upper from independence hall come to the philadelphia art museum or sylvester stallone would make famous in the rocky movies, early 40 years later. in a apply, father s attention, a civil war veteran and he said on the back of a four-door convertible, dressed in his all union uniform, including his campaign hat and behind him marched a small group of spanish american war veterans, but of all of the soldiers the veterans are merging vance my father sought that they come the union soldier so that camille jack had been somewhat about the civil war in school, saying the soldier in the flesh intrigued him and the soldier would become seared in my father s mind of the most costly war in american history, became real to and thus become a father s lifelong journey of self-education and patriotic preaching, about this great nation s history and founding principles and at a young age jack in an effort drawing from a designing and when he was 13 years old, he designed an automobile window and intervention for the contest that they were conducting in conjunction with the release of the movie young tom is income starring mickey rooney remember the little triangle window, well and among others, that was his idea and he was one of only five winners citywide, and earned a trip to the 1939, new york world s fair in this had incredible impression on him and a 15, my father committed an idea with drawings for animating the story a christmas carol to the in california, the studio loved and asked that he provide more examples of his work including, numerous cartoon drawings which he did in the next contacted his parents announced that it would allow percentage points disney studios. well, they said they would provide them with dormitory state space in either facility what is working for them but his parents concern about his age, turned down the offer my father grew up during the great depression his family was very very poor and his father harry to part-time jobs when he can find them, and his mother sarah worked in his cigar factory in about a mile down from where there were living jack was the oldest of four children. any boy and when he turned 16 years old, half of the school day you did, you would walk to the cigar factory, down the street where he worked until midnight and running the going rate of $17 a week on week as my father took freelance jobs furniture frame manufactured, sketching frames going to oppose herself as a chair said he was paid, $2 for a set of drawings and manufacturers salesman use the finished drawings with the customers he was later the japanese attacked pearl harbor and jack spend the summer working at the craps shipyard from the philadelphia shipyard, with the oldest destroyers and summaries but he wanted to do more for the war effort like somebody wonderful mentor that young time, my father decided to enlist in the armed forces and he wanted to be a cadet in the army air corps, which today we know the air force. jack was only 17, he was too young and so he security copy of his birth certificate from city hall, rubbed out the number five in 1925, his birth year, any written for and just like that he reached the legal age requirement of 18. now if you pass a rigorous their core exam, he was in and cadets took the exam including students from the university of pennsylvania but only for paths, including my father not long thereafter, is my father was boarding a train to biloxi mississippi, for basic training, the soldier stopped him and told him the lt. wanted to see him of the cynically taken close of the birth certificate and asked jack how old he was objectively the truth. the ten at ten was not very happy with my father when he turned 18, he joined up in a week after, he turned 18 and he did well in their service, jack would use brief respites committed to rock tunes which were published in a variety of newspapers later joined the regular army, and in the infantry and it always bothered him, they never sent him overseas rate and when he was on his deathbed, he called me over five and half years ago, it was just he and i in the hospital room. his body was a wreck with cancer. and he said you know mark, i know what god did not send me to europe in a supply get. and he sits organ have you and your mother and i could have you. my peers were great people. and as he was dying, he was trying to write another book. the declaration of independence and he wrote several books gettysburg address, second inaugural address, and installing to his children and influenced the of a this is what he drew, shortly before he passed away. i shorted before he passed away. in the current president of the united states secretary of state, national security advisor, and the press secretary for the presbytery and for the secretary of state and they keep saying when it comes to his part from there is no victory right when they mean by victory, i m a grandfather knew what victory meant. my great uncle knew what victory that my father knew it victory met it we know what victory means. when i listen to donald trump speech coming in and referencing of the concentration camps only listen to ronald reagan speech, any reference to the six jews had been slaughtered, i listen to joe biden speech and he never mentioned this ralph, no months. talk about trump, the naming him. any talk about ukraine, and i agree with him on ukraine. he is the one that s held back ukraine despite all the money spent, they have not but in the army mets, that they need to actually defeat some of these russian battalions. and is withheld the okay for them to attack beyond a certain level of the europeans have been begging him. and he talks about democracy. but is in front of other groups and he talks about his hate for america. and you know who else know about victory, dwight eisenhower and harry truman, the new something about victory after close to i ve years of fighting the in europe in general and eternal life on june 6, 1944, d-day of the set apart from the tightest turn, the freemen of the world are merging together to victory and i have full confidence in your courage, devotion, to duty skill and that will accept nothing less than victory also year after d-day president harry truman announced ve day of may 8th 1945 in which he said in part, this victory, we join in offering our thanks to the providence in which because guided and sustained us of the dark days of adversity rejoice and sobered is subdued by the supreme consciousness of the terrible price that we have paid through the world of hitler, and his evil band and if i can give away simple watch for the coming months, the board is working, work, and more working we must work coveted finish the work in our victory is only half over but much remains to be done in the victory one in the west and is now being born in the east for the triumph of spirit in arms head of which we have wanted for his promise some of the peoples everywhere, who joined us and 11 freedom and it is fitting that we as a nation give thanks to almighty god and it was us and given us the victory, and i call upon the people of the united states, whatever their faith, to united offering joyful thanks to god for the victory. we have wanted to pray that he will support us, to the end of our present struggling and guide us into the way of peace and i also call upon my countrymen, to dedicate this day of prayer come to the memory of those given their lives to make possible our victory. and he said also my personal appreciation of the suburban leadership, showing you and your commanders and directing the valiant leeches of her own country. and rallies and do this historic victory. every president has known what mean perhaps other than biden and obama in the victory, and israel right now is because i did is funding the enemy is preventing israel from winning. what is victory fiasco the reason ukrainians are now on their heels is not because of lack of money and arms coming it is because biden has held them back. any talking about russia any use that d-day speech. to lie about your political about it in front of the world, where all of those brave men are buried. that s phone place, on that solemn day, is disgusting. -electric for short trips. -hmmm? .gas for long. hmmm? quite the paradox. -it really is both. -hmmm. the lexus rx plug-in hybrid. her uncle s unhappy. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. sue and welcome back america, we have one of the superstars i think it republican party the house of representatives, and at east in it at least if republican conference chair, she s on the house armed services committee, and nobody has question hostile witnesses like she does and i can tell you that, and is a pleasure to have you and i want to start with you, on this immigration issue joe biden was of the border, over 90 executive orders, only has to do is reverse them and we don t need a law in congress to me congresswoman the fellows existing immigration law, when we passed a law this is follow the law was joe biden done here. he has created the most catastrophic of border crisis innovations history and the american people know what is wavy look of the polling parking, is trump s pulling over 30 points ahead when he comes to handling up of border security and illegal immigration and house republicans passed the secure the border act, your ago, joe biden refused to support that bill in effect threatened to veto the bill and chuck schumer killed that builds those house republicans who have led legislatively to secure the border and it was joe biden who months ago, said that he did not have the executive authority to fix this border crisis even though the market people know that it was his executive actions that created this border crisis as of this latest desperate executive orders that joe biden has put out, political desperation and is only further fuels the illegals able to cross both are southern in our northern boulder reporters phoenix unbelievable is in the the comes out of the sky smell in the media to run with it and likely going to say to joe biden is his bipartisan bill. i partisan bill, congress woman to think the three republican supported it is negotiated in secret. on the mitch mcconnell, voted against his own bill and what with the joe biden partisan bill with duncan illegal immigration. further fueled of the fire and had open up the floodgates for more illegal immigrants two-point in this country and it would not have ended catch and release them he would not reinstated remain in mexico policy, we help what is secure border looks like helsley president trump s effective border security policies the most secure border in my lifetime and that s why house republicans opposed this pro- amnesty negotiation behind closed doors of the joe biden politically wanted to bail him out to cover up for this border crisis that he has created and of famer coming up onto the border for the southern and northern border center represent the temporal northern border, we ve seen illegal crossings, skyrocketed or joe biden is failed leadership including those on the terror partially synthesis of national security prices and economic crisis, and is a constitutional crisis because if you do not have orders from you lose your sovereignty as a nation as of this is an issue house republicans avoided were not and would reelect president trump continue to grow the house republican majority the senate and we will make sure that in addition of trumps executive orders from the we get secure the border step signed into law. mark: you know, some of the difficulty accusing the menino law i keep saying, the system is broken. first of all, what kind of law when they support, another would enshrine as you point out, open borders illegal immigration, slavery and could sold into slavery in the door-to-door darn thing about it in your acer to think about number two, to make it count on the number of women were sold into slavery encounter the number of children now were sold to pornographers and we keep him, have any of this and i noticed that very interest of keeping count of goes on in the middle east the israelis and palestinians. do we keep count of the amount of may have in the anarchy and humanity going on in the southern border as a result of this president to make it gets worse even that which you think about it, divided department of homeland security, does not know and is awestruck of nearly 100,000 minors who are in slavery being human trafficked and humanitarian travesty and it is all joe biden s watch. he has created this border crisis lock stock and barrel. the american people point of pulled him accountable you are exactly right of the president trump executive order for you the most secure border in the northern and southern border in our nations history this life the bill that the house republicans vessel strong support despite a very slow majority, we passes secure the border act to enshrine those trump executive orders in the democrats cannot have it both ways. as a first joe biden have the executive authority then they put out a desperate executive order and it is offensive to the market people in the voters because they know the joe biden s executive actions underwent open of the border and is allowed catch and release, and has created this crisis transferring of illegals to places all across the country so it is not just the border states and communities that are infected, it is every state is a border state in every community as a border community and is prices because of joe biden and president trump is going to secure the border come with the help of house republicans and senate republicans to provide safety flown at half a million foreigners in the country. and affirmatively he is has gotten them confronted into the country will move illusion pendant management will recent nothing has changed and that is the truth, nothing changeable we come back, what is it with joe biden in his hate pretty israelis in the state of israel. the few people to never speak to the net there and what is it about him and his embrace of iran and funding the enemy and we will be right back. sup? -who are you? i m your inner child. get in. 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[ engine revving ] oh now we re torquin ! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. let s get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it s the martha stewart of soil. honestly, i was scared when i was told age related macular degeneration could jeopardize my vision. great. one more thing to worry about. it was all too hard to deal with in the beginning, but making a plan with my doctor to add precision was easy. preservision areds2 contains the exact nei recommended, clinically proven nutrient formula to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. thanks to preservision, i feel better that i m doing something about it like millions of others. preservision. dad is a legend. and his legendary moves might be passed down to you. dancing is just one of the many inherited traits you can discover with ancestry dna. get it for dad, and together you can see which traits were inherited, the places where they started, and the people he shares them with. best of all, it s on sale for father s day. but get movin , this sale is only for a limited time. i m john scott is now back to life, liberty & levin. c1 welcome back america, were here with the least release still phonic, and if i were somebody who wanted to undermine israel, prevent them from winning a war and surely cannot survive the two state solution know the rest that would got joe biden s demand but what is this problem. will that is anti-semitism and that is a growing strain today s different party, that is not become a stream and is anti- israel every opportunity, joe biden has equivocated for la and turned his back on his route for adams honor to be invited by the speaker these really because the speaker robotic about to deliver remarks about the importance of the united states standing with israel and this the same week of the joe biden attempted and is still withholding military eight that congress passed in support of her most precious la the middle east, you have an administration that s obama, 2.0 prioritizing iran and hundred biting israel created chaos national security, threats or the world because of joe biden s weakness on the world stage. mark: quickly, to your knowledge, you said in the armed services committee what is this administration pivoting run from getting a nuclear weapon and then we read the papers this is ministration is leaning on france and the uk. not to review give ron, for his nuclear program and when you make of that. what to make of it is a continuation of the obama administration including some of the same individuals who are at the table in terms of these discussions others working through european countries summative pave the way for iranian nuclear weapons capability remember back of this is the same administration in the same state department, that put out an official statement, the loss of the iranian president you what the iranian people who had been abused by the iranian president said the regime and they did not mourn the loss of the president yet this is the same administration who is turning their back on israel. his obama 2.0 with failure and birth that to the historic achievements the middle east to president trump with received records or the recognizing jerusalem as the eternal capitol moving u.s. embassy there and we had peace in the middle east under president trump voters know they going to the polls is november c1 appointment quickly to another subject, this chamber that the placement headed. mark: and i believe you filed an ethics complaint against dissecting cho. yes multiple ethics complaints and this is shredding our democracy and the mainstream media depress accused of the right but it is really the depressed attacking our democracy and retake the judge into the near pay for this was like the case taken up by alvin bragg a corrupt prosecutor releasing by criminals on extremes is what we have five crisis in new york judge who donated to joe biden and his family members are profiting to the tens of tens of millions of dollars and raising money for the rest like adam schiff and joe biden, because of this trial and so this is a political witchhunt, the jury shopped as well asking the members with a folded donald trump tells me that did the best that the fold invited the american people know that this was rigged from the start and is in the front to us president trump is correct the real verdict will be rendered is november on election day president trump wins overwhelmingly and i also think any of the fact that president trump is within six points have a traditionally blue state means that momentum is moving in our direction because people see this for what it is that they can go up to president trump on political opponents they can go after any american c1 just me speaking about i m pleased is what i m reading a newspaper some of that you are potentially under consideration is running mate to donald trump and i just think you are great and think you very much, keep up the fine god flesh you my friend. thank you. mark: we wil why would i use kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites at once? i like to do things myself. i can t trust anything else to do the job right. kayak. aaaaaaaahhhh kayak. search one and done. mark: welcome back america, wehs professor stephen calabrese, full disclosure, buddy of mine who work in the department of justice we work together he s gone on to greater things is a lot professor northwestern university. it is cochairman of the federalist society, former law clerk for justice seven in a long list here, visiting professor yelp and all that said, steve, you have filed with professor gary lawson, with former attorney general denise, and mike casey going challenge in the florida court, under the appointment because of the constitution and the appointment of jack smith. full disclosure, landmark legal finishing is as well unhuman develop the credit goes to the president and the staff there what is it that you re telling the judge. steve: thank you so what we are telling the judges jack smith was unconstitutionally appointed. the justice department claims that he is what is called an inferior officer under the constitution. in the appointment because of article two, set the congress may by law thus the home point met of such inferior officers as they think proper, and the president alone in the course of law or in the heads of departments and we have reviewed the organic statutes of the justice department and of agriculture education, hhs, and transportation. it s quite clear from the statutes that congress has given the secretary of agriculture, education and hhs, and transportation, the power to avoid inferior officers in congress has not by statute given the power to the attorney general worried and so jack smith is acting illegally, and everything that he is doing is no and void and has been all avoid since he was appointed, two years ago. and we think that judge elaine canada florida great hero anand a champion of the rolloff, one of the best federal district court judges in this country, should dismiss the indictment jack smith has brought against donald trump because jack smith was on constitutionally appointed. we know steve come of all of the people of the attorney general chosen, constitutionally, the goodby individuals already gone through the confirmation process of the united states senate has compelled the appointments clause of the constitution is there for a reason. it would pick jack smith and somebody was a lawyer, who has not been approved by the senate invited the framers of the constitution when a role for congress specifically this tendency, and the appointment of these top powerful positions in the executive branch. steve: will market originally congress thought of giving the appointment and power to congress alone and only later undecided issuer between the president and the senate but they felt that it was crucial that there be a check on presidential appointment powers of the presidents notify people who bad moral character or tainted by nepotism or things of that point. in effect, under the constitution, the default method of appointment, is presidential nomination and senatorial confirmation. jack smith is not going through that the provision for inferior officers, was added originally simply for clerks and people perform on policymaking jobs and of the course of her hundred 34 years of history, the number of principal officers who are nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate, has shrunk a number of inferior officers have grown vastly and actually the prosecutors, former attorney general of objects in a famous attorneys, emphasized why this is incredibly important with his accusers attorney general robert jackson went on to become supreme court justice robert jackson, nürnberg prosecutor, robert jackson, said because of the immense power to strike is citizens, not with me her usual strength, but with all the force of government and the federal sphere, from the beginning, the safeguard presidential appointment confirmation of the senate has been imposed your this required to win an expression of confidence in your character about the legislative and executive branches of the government before assuming the awesome responsibility that federal prosecutor suet know when we return professor, my question to you is this, is not smith, the most powerful prosecutor right now on the face of the united states, with massive resources and massive personnel, massive authority involving the future election of this country and with these incredible constitutional issues that he is raising and if anybody should this individual have been facing a nomination confirmation process, so somebody other than the attorney general of the united states at some of ability to oversee wittiest doing it we will be right back. some people just know that the best rate for you is a rate based on you, with allstate. because you. you are not doing this. save with drivewise and get a rate based on you. you re in good hands with allstate. this is steve. steve takes voquezna. this is steve s stomach, where voquezna can kick some acid, heal acid-related damage to the esophagus called erosive esophagitis, and relieve related heartburn. voquezna is the first and only fda-approved treatment of its kind. 93% of adults were healed by two months. of those healed, 79% stayed healed. and voquezna can provide heartburn-free days and nights. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. don t take if allergic to voquezna or while on products with rilpivirine. voquezna may cause serious side effects including kidney problems, diarrhea, bone fractures, severe skin reactions, low vitamin b-12 or magnesium levels, and stomach growths. call your doctor if you have diarrhea, stomach pain or fever that won t go away, decreased or bloody urine, seizures, dizziness, irregular heartbeat, jitteriness, muscle aches or weakness, spasms of hands, feet, or voice. voquezna can help kick some acid, and so can you. ask your doctor about voquezna. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? mark: welcome back americaprofe3 u.s. attorneys, and is jack smith not more powerful, then any of the 93 u.s. attorneys who went to the confirmation process under the constitution. steve: he is more powerful than any of the three u.s. attorneys with the confirmation process under the constitution. and if the attorney general were right, if he could appoint special counsel jack smith, he could appoint a special counsel in cook county illinois, to investigate corruption there in the senators from illinois would have no check on that. it appointed special counsel in baton rouge, louisiana, to investigate corruption and they would have no check on that there s a reason why the senate insisted on the check of senate confirmation of prosecutors and jack smith, has not been confirmed by the senate. mark: one after another subject we subject we do have a time that is the issue of a common-law or another method, for president trump and his attorneys to make a pathway to the supreme court steps and i will make it clear to them naysayers out there, we can t guarantee the supreme court will to get up and you can t guarantee the supreme court think of anything but even if you have a 10 percent chance and i think that there s bigger chance, the methodologies to do it that are extraordinary under extraordinary circumstances human idea yourself. steve: i have a couple of ideas versatile trumps new york state convictions are completely unconstitutional and in violation of the first amendment protection of freedom of speech. the question is how to get that first amendment claim from a new york trial corporative the supreme court and a couple of ideas i want president trump is equal is: prohibition which is that old common law writ, whereby the court of kings mansion in england, took cases away from the jurisdiction of ecclesiastical courts and the court of equity when they were exercising it improperly and unlawfully. any of the trial court manhattan is unlawfully prosecuting trump for first amendment protected activities of this prohibition is one mechanism, and another mechanism is with the law of the state courts and federal courts, to certify to one another, the federal questions or state questions that need to be answered. the state courts could certainly certified to the supreme court, the first amendment questions in this case. in the prosecutors could also divide the appeal intuitive feel the federal issues and ability state issues an appeal the federal issues more quickly smacking the other methods because i don t believe the prosecutors will do anything that would get it quickly to the supreme court however, there is also original jurisdiction of some of the republican attorney general of the state of new york. let me number of things and interference with their voters and interference with national election interference with federal campaign law that is a direct up to the supreme court but you mentioned the prohibition and there are several what we call common-law ritz prohibition, mandamus, corpus and the point is, the point is, that there are avenues this is not a 70-yard pass, and if that court wasn t picking up somebody else to position and they took bush versus gore they hold the voting x-uppercase-letter taking place there. they permitted the state supreme court and going any further and they said that this is a presidential election we need to address this is a was like the court has not done something like this week before and i would argue this is much worse if they don t address it now, it will get much worse in the future, in 2020 agencies will be all three willing to do whatever they want is stephen calabrese, how i think you and you are a great patriot your brilliant lawyer for a professor and a dear friend and take care of yourself. steve: thank you market is going to be in show. mark: and we will be right back. unique style, cutting-edge innovation, and thoughtful details, inspired by you. this is the all-electric rz. this is lexus, electrified. 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