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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

you know, certainly on one hand you could sit there and say all these steps were taken to overturn the results of the election, but on the other hand, if he truly believed that there was fraud, whether you agree with him or not, if he truly believed it and if his team truly believed it, what steps would you expect them to take? you know, you would expect them to take the steps of saying, hey, let's slow down the process and let's try to verify these things, kick it back to the states to make sure that the election results are accurate. so it is definitely one of those things where it's not clear. it can interpreted multiple ways. it's not -- it's not as simple as watergate where they break a hotel room and it's a clear crime and anybody on either side of the aisle can see that. here it's much more open to interpretation. >> is it really open to interpretation if you have governors that he was pressuring to do things that -- brian kemp of georgia, doug ducey of arizona, they said that they couldn't do. he was trying to get mike pence

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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

tonight, former prument is attacking the justice department again after revealing that he is the target of the special counsel's election probe. this is him in iowa earlier tonight. >> they go after trump but they don't go after -- [ laughter ] they should give a little of that oomph to going after the terrorists. >> maggie haberman, a senior political correspondent for "the new york times" joins me now. i mean, to hear him saying that, i don't think it's surprising. it came unprompted. at this lodge event and he discuss started talking about it. what's your sense from your reporting about what his reaction to this was privately. >> so, he was -- for somebody not great at keeping other people's secrets he can be good at keeping his own. he was not especially chatty with people in his circle about this over the last two days. he ended up putting it out because they got a news inquiry about it. he was trying to get ahead of it. as we have seen with his previous two indictments this is not yet an indictment but a likely one and wanted to control the narrative.

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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

course, trump will tell us through his social media or some other way. that's how we find out what's going on is usually through trump. >> yeah, he's been the one to tell us every single time when he's gotten a target -- not the first target letter but when he got indicted. what is your expectation of what the next step could be after something like that? >> well, i think he will be indicted. i don't think there's any other reason to issue him a target letter other than saying this is your chance to come in and by the way, i don't know what mr. parlatore's experience is but that is the reason you get a target letter so he doesn't come back and say, gee, i wanted to testify before the grand jury. how dare you take away that opportunity. that allows him to come in if he wants. i think we'll see an indictment shortly after that. >> you disagree with tim's argument that is for show or doesn't have value. you think it does have value to give trump a heads-up he's to be charged. >> i think that's to take that argument away from him. they don't want him to say, i wanted to come in, you're not

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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

supporters believe what he says about that day, a number of them -- a number of people who i know aren't happy with what happened on january 6th, still say things to me like -- these are his supporters, say to me, but i don't like what's happening with the people arrested so you are going to keep hearing that as we go forward. >> he had this court date in florida today. i didn't have to show up. his co-defendant walt nauta did. but the idea he missed that because he was in iowa for this campaign event, now if he is going to indeed face charges here like he says he is, that's a series of indictments his attorneys have to deal with. what's your sense of how they're grappleing? >> they're struggling and looking at potentially four different jurisdictions, d.c., florida, new york, georgia. he's also facing civil trials. one in october. there are two in january. one is e. jean carroll and one is a pyramid scheme case. it is a maze of legal activity and sort of ironic because

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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

to do things that mike pence said he couldn't do. of course, we had rudy giuliani and these other attorneys going into states and trying to get these slates of fake electors. that's more than questioning. they had 60 court cases that were all thrown out. >> well, a lot of those court cases were thrown out on standing issues and they were really thrown out prediscovery. as to pressuring people to do things that the people say they can't do, that's one of those things where you have to look into it and say, were they really pressuring them to do something that is, you know, clear black letter law that they're not allowed to do or, again, is it one of those things where it's open to interpretation? when it comes to mike pence, obviously there are different interpretations as to what his powers are under the electoral college act and one of the reasons why congress, you know, then went to amend the act to kind of close it and make it a lot more clear that his role is purely ceremonial because there was confusion and there were

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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

afternoon. >> jack smith has prosecuted democrats too. i mean he prosecuted or was part of it for senator menendez, senator john edwards. are you saying if he finds evidence of criminality he should not charge donald trump anyway? >> what i'm say something when you're going after somebody on the other side of the political spectrum, if you're stretching statutes to try to criminalize maybe political disagreements, that is wrong. now, look, this is all speculation. but i think we've gone down the road in this country of trying to criminalize differences in politics rather than saying, okay, you don't like somebody, then defeat them in the election, rather than trying to use the justice system. we don't know what's going to happen but i can tell you with the bragg one that was stretching criminal law. the evidence of criminality was very weak and even if that existed, other people would not have been charged under those circumstances. that's the problem.

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CNN This Morning

one, there is extreme fear inside north korea about westerners or foreigners because of covid-19. the vast majority of the population is unevacuated. there is a good chance he might be kwarn needed and could be for quite some time before questioning begins. and when he is questioned, likely the one -- they want to know about his military background. previously, half a dozen u.s. servicemen had defected into north korea, all but one stayed there until they died. but these were different times when the united states had a higher value to the north koreans in terms of getting somebody from the military living in there. in this case, you know, mr. king wasn't in the army very long. he doesn't have a lot of intel he would be able to share with them aside from where he was stationed and doing as a private. so once the north koreans assess that they couldn't gain a lot of military intelligence from him and perhaps not much propaganda value either because they haven't really used americans for propaganda in a number of years, the last time in the -- the sons of a u.s. defector, a

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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

>> geoff, i mean, why are they tiptoeing through the minefield? >> one of the most damaging effects donald trump has had on our party he taught us to mistake honesty for weakness and that's a fatal flaw. you watch these folks try to step up to the line and think they're playing cute orsome political adviser is in their ear about the next fund-raising, look, there is no other place to be on january 6th than it was wrong. there's no other place to be on the 2020 election than it was fair and legal. there's no other place to be on ukraine than vladimir putin is a warmongering thug. but, yet, he wants to blur all of this. i think this is a golden opportunity for somebody in the field to step up with all the energy and strength in their body to step up and say, donald trump is wrong, i'm going to prove it and i'm going to win the hearts and minds of republicans so i can win a primary and eventually beat joe biden. >> not only are you really not seeing it on the 2024 trail except from the obvious candidates but house speaker kevin mccarthy who, you know, had, of course -- let's just look at what he said in the days

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The Source With Kaitlan Collins

think about this, what does it mean if donald trump, who could be twice, three times, four times indicted, perhaps convicted, what would it mean for him to be the nominee of the republican party, perhaps elected president and all of these people who know better saying, yeah, the system was corrupt. the system was politicized. it is -- this is a bigger moment for the american experiment than merely what happens to donald trump and the people who are saying what kevin mccarthy said are going to have a real black mark when the history of this period is written. >> do you agree with that, geoff? >> absolutely. i mean, i think if you splash enough truth serum across republican circles, a fraction of people actually think the election was rigged, right? just a thin, thin fraction. one of the most surprising things when i got elected to office ten years ago as a complete outsider is how signal low these folks were. i thought i would walk into a room of leaders. they won an election but they weren't leaders.

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