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have to point at bremer. it was a terrible decision. >> i think -- >> you're being too hard on him. it was clear to us the h ubris before they went in, they had nothing to do after. bush, cheney, they never asked what comes next. bremer was sent there and basically figure it out yourself. he made bad decisions -- >> we go in, over throw the government. you take over the government by force. that's how we did it. then we said, you know what, we'll get intonation building. we'll get rid of the structure of sunnis governing for 300 years and put the other side in charge. by the way, we'll debaathisize like we did in germany. their idea of liberation was shia call the shots. 300 years of revenge.
i sat down with michael holmes earlier today at cnn international anchor, correspondent, i asked him what he thought of bremer's controversial stance. michael holmes is joining me. you are our go-to guy on everything iraq. you have been there 14 times. you were there every single year of the war. you have literally seen baghdad burning. when you see paul bremer coming on national television, what was your reaction to the interview? >> you know, you can't lay the whole blame at paul bremer's feet. a lot of people are responsible for what's going on in iraq right now. but i can tell you what, what was obvious when we got off the air was the americans did a great battle plan to win the war. they didn't know what to do when they got there. within two or three days of me getting to baghdad, buildings were on fire, the whole city had a smoke haze from the looters. the big mistake that he made was firing the army, sent home a couple hundred thousand guys. >> he, bremer. >> yeah, with no pay and guns. sent them home. they were a bit annoyed by that.
offensive to retake these areas that we have control on the ground of that air, which would be ours, which i think is necessary if we get into close combat or they get into close combat. >> honest issue of close combat, you just heard bremer, in saying they need targeted strikes and boots on the ground in the form of intelligence and to guide those strikes. not troops per se. but those are americans whose lives will be at risk for iraq yet again. is that the right decision? >> no, i don't think so. at least not at this point. if we were to use airstrikes to support the iraqi government now, we would merely be choosing sides in a civil war. malachi has proven himself and until there is a government more representative of all of the iraqi people, we should stay on the side lines but let me make it clear. if we put forward air controllers or special forces on
nice suit. he disbanded the iraqi government so nothing was left for a third of the country except any group that would overthrow the government. >> he created a vacuum. he's responsible, if you will bring in one guy who's responsible for a lot of the mess that happened in iraq you have to point at bremer. it was a terrible decision. >> i think -- >> you're being too hard on him. it was clear to us the h ubris before they went in, they had nothing to do after. bush, cheney, they never asked what comes next. bremer was sent there and basically figure it out yourself. he made bad decisions -- >> we go in, over throw the government. you take over the government by force. that's how we did it. then we said, you know what, we'll get intonation building.
give you help but you've got to start playing all sides. >> just to play politics here a little bit. back when we were de-bathi cizing that government and this guy with the nice looking suit, bremer, with the suit and the brown shoes he wore all the time. they went in there and did something that had nothing to do with us. they got rid of the iraqi army, got rid of the iraqi government, destroyed the entire politics from that country which was sunnis. they told the sunnis we're not on your side. we basically waged war against the sunnis. >> is the civil war which is what you're saying, or is it an elected government we're trying to defend. i think that's the way to frame the question. if it's a civil war, it's like syria, with we're definitely not going to go in. >> twhafs all about? >> historical point.
as the president said today, they have to clean up their political act and represent all sides of the country where they're not going to get u.s. help. the u.s. is trying to say we'll give you help but you've got to start playing all sides. >> back when we were de-baathicizing that government and this guy with the nice looking suit, bremer, with the suit and the brown shoes he wore all the time. they went in there and did something that had nothing to do with us. they got rid of the iraqi army, got rid of the iraqi government, destroyed the entire politics from that country which was sunnis. they told the sunnis we're not on your side. we basically waged war against the sunnis. >> is the civil war which is what you're saying, or is it an elected government we're trying to defend. if it's a civil war, it's like
pakistan and let the rest of it go. it's going to fall apartd. >> can i half agree with you? you have a little bit of support here. i supported going into iraq. i did. when they went in and they did not find wmds, they should have said, okay, given the keys to the highest ranking military official and say, if you support terrorism, if uf become a threat to our country, we will be back. we would have been fear and respected. insfed, this is my irnl. paul bremer sent the iraqi military home, tried to privatize the regions and that's what's caused the insurgencinsu. president obama campaigned against all of these things, didn't listen to military advice, telegraphed when we're leaving. a number of mistakes were plead. i half agree with you. i'm not into staying there forever, but i agree why we went in the first place. >> you're exactly right about bremer. we were not going to iraq to nation build. when bremer decided for whatever power he had to disband the
forces in for the border with pakistan and let the rest of it go. it's going to fall apartd. >> can i half agree with you? you have a little bit of support here. i supported going into iraq. i did. when they went in and they did not find wmds, they should have said, okay, given the keys to the highest ranking military official and say, if you support terrorism, if uf become a threat to our country, we will be back. we would have been fear and respected. insfed, this is my irnl. paul bremer sent the iraqi military home, tried to privatize the regions and that's what's caused the insurgencinsu. president obama campaigned against all of these things, didn't listen to military advice, telegraphed when we're leaving. a number of mistakes were plead. i half agree with you. i'm not into staying there forever, but i agree why we went in the first place. >> you're exactly right about bremer. we were not going to iraq to nation build. when bremer decided for whatever
its quasi autonomous federation. i can remember people working for bremer saying to me in that period, we're going to have an 80%. the sunnis not with us don't matter, but we'll take the 80%. >> katty kay, let me read a quick line from dexter philcan's piece. the rapid advance of militants across the sunni heartland of iraq has been stunning and relentless and utterly predictable. here's a forecast. the bad news is just beginning. what are we watching and where does it go from here? >> i spoke to a congressman last night and asked him whether what we're seeing in iraq is a prelude to what we may see in afghanistan a few years down the road. he said you have to at least
united states, we don't want to go live somewhere else. we're not very good at this. i don't know many cases where we've created an american-style democracy by influence. it's very hard, we don't want to live there and give them an example. how many european powers have been that great in inspiring enduring roots of democracy anywhere? in the end, the countries have to decide for themselves what kind of a government they want. we can't stop the sunnis have hating the shias, we can't stop that. it's thousands of years of history. and we don't know where the arms are left over from saddam. all the people when the military was broken up by bremer. we don't know where the guns are and munitions. that country could come apart, soon as well. countries in the end become who they are. when the brits leave kenya, it eventually becomes kenya. like it or not, it's going to look like that. those countries become who they are. i have limited notions about how