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Deadline White House

legal parlance a mess, right? that we have multiple forms involved, 19 defendants, and that's before we even get to the fact that there are multiple other cases pending against donald trump. one of those could intersect with the october 23rd trial date that fani willis proposed today in response to ken chesebro. new york attorney general tish james as you know has a civil fraud trial to the tune of $250 million outstanding against trump and some of his kids. that case goes to trial on october 2nd and is expect today last longer than october 23rd would allow. trump will certainly say that he has an interest in being present there. even though it's a civil trial and he doesn't have to be, he will likely use that as an excuse in telling judge scott mcafae that a trial on october 23rd wouldn't happen if the case does indeed stay in state court. >> gwen, let me bring you in on this.

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

constitution by a president in our history. >> gwen, we see in this indictment some of the specifics of georgia law that are uniquely applied here that don't exist as federal options. this charge, for example, of impersonating unofficial, that the electors are all being charged with. that's particular to georgia law. the forgery aspects of it are the georgia forgery law, and i'm not sure anybody writing the forgery law ever thought it would apply to fake electors in the presidential election, but here we are. we are seeing all the specifics of georgia law, and some georgia election law, working into this indictment to strengthen it in a way that is unique to georgia. >> that's absolutely true. and so again what you are seeing is this district attorney recognizing and really educating the grand jurors

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

assistant general, senior legal affairs general for the los angeles times. and gwen, let me begin with you on a point that we were working on last night and that is the question of mandatory minimums. in the georgia law, the rico law, there appears to be a mandatory minimum sentence of five years but there are indications that there is still discretion left to the judge to not necessarily impose prison time and that could be done through probation. what is the real mandatory minimum? let me put it this way, is there a mandatory minimum of confinement of some kind in the georgia law that applies in this case? >> last night you heard d.a. willis say yes. they're wise. and the way i read that statement is, as a prosecutor, and again, this is very early

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

where we all hope that, in fact, we have come out of the forest and we have seen general accountability, this broad gauge action, this blunder bus compared to jack smith's sort of single arrow at trump will be a huge part of the overall reckoning of the nation as against the arguably most treacherous conduct against the constitution by a president in our history. >> gwen, we see in this indictment some of the specifics of georgia law that are uniquely applied here that don't exist as federal options. this charge, for example, of impersonating an official, that the electors are all being charged with. that's particular to georgia law. the forgery aspects of it are the georgia forgery law, and i'm not sure anybody writing the forgery law ever thought it would apply to fake electors in a presidential election, but here we are. we are seeing all the specifics of georgia law, and some georgia election law, working

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

criminal enterprise. leading off our discussion tonight is glenn he's fleming, andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel, a professor in practice it nyu law school, and an msnbc legal and analyst, also harry littman, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant general, senior legal affairs general for the los angeles times. and gwen, let me begin with you on a point that we were working on last night and that is the question of mandatory minimums. in the georgia law, the rico law, there appears to be a mandatory minimum sentence of five years but there are indications that there is still discretion left to the judge to not necessarily impose prison time and that could be done through probation. what is the real mandatory minimum? let me put it this way, is there a mandatory minimum of

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

accountability, you just have to charge and get redress of the so-called gaggle of crack pot lawyers, the six here including jenna ellis, that really did trump's conduct. that's a big part of it. second is the way in which the many different folks will potentially cooperate and provide both information and accountability. and third, are just different factors in the georgia scheme, not just rico but preventative detention. andrew talked about this a couple of days ago. and speedy trial that when what we really have here is a possibility, it may be literally years down the line, as gwen has just said. but you think about a time

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Katy Tur Reports

bit later. the surrender and arraignment are two different things. in the federal system we see them sort of happen together. it remains to be seen when he'll be arraigned. i'm sure we'll all be watching when he is. >> i hear from people, family and friends, people want to hear about lisa. >> we get to be going to law school essentially through all this. >> it's learning and i think we talk about it all the time. >> i just have to thank gwen fleming keys. >> oh, thank you, gwen. >> actual lawyers. >> to be with you is such a privilege but to cover some of the players here and i've been

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Katy Tur Reports

struck with what gwen had to say about her friend fani willis. she went to howard, and emory university law school. and the allegation that she's a racist, the strong black women standing up to donald trump is something to behold. >> and standing up to say that i know there's a sameness that maybe some people feel, indictment, after indictment, after indictment, but she is showing in this indictment that many people came together in many places in many different ways to say your vote doesn't count and he is standing up and saying this is what we believe we can prove and it matters. >> and what we read in these indictments is overwhelming.

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Ana Cabrera Reports

a complicated, complex plot by donald trump to overturn georgia's election results. >> gwen, you know fani willis personally. we know she's been receiving full ger and threatening messages. what do you want people to know about fani willis? how do you think she's approaching this moment in this historic case? >> first of all, she's a consummate professional. she's not going to be distracted from the oath she took as d.a., which means she's indicated that she will investigate and pursue charges without fear, favor or affection. so she's going to move forward no matter how disturbing the attacks or threats are. the other thing is, as a lawyer licensed in georgia, she's following her rules of ethics. so again, that combination i would suggest gives the residents of fulton county and really folks around the country

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Ana Cabrera Reports

tomorrow. we've known a case of this scope will likely take two full days to present before grand jury a that meets on monday and tuesday. we're officially on indictment watch here in fulton county. >> gwen, we know there was a special grand jury that did the investigative work over the course of many months. my understanding is this grand jury has been presented with their conclusions and the key evidence. can you expand upon that? take us inside the courtroom leading up to a vote on potential charges. what's going to happen? >> sure. let me first explain, the special grand jury was just investigative. they could not return any kind of indictment. their job was to collect as much facts and evidence as possible and come up with recommendations. now that da willis has that, most likely she will have one or two or more of her investigators summarize that evidence and also supplement it with actual testimony from the witnesses that you just talked about in terms of the former members of

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