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the cluster munitions that will help. they won't be a game-changer, but it will be ammunition that they can use against defensive positions. but, they are also learning as they grow, to anderson. at our training centers, we say, we learn and grow every day. and we have even absconds to the fact that we are failing many times, and getting scar tissue. the ukrainians are learning how to conduct operations against these very intense, and complex obstacle belts. they will continue to learn and grow, they will find ways to overcome. they have a good morale in their force, they have great leaders, things that the russians do not. have >> ambassador taylor, there was a ukrainian peace summit in saudi arabia last week. china opted to send a delegation, any takeaway from that, in your opinion? >> the chinese showing up for that is amazing. anderson, that's a demonstration that the chinese are i think starting to edge away from the russians. i mean, they know. so the ukrainians, it was a ukrainian idea, to have this
side, but he was able because of how deeply rooted grievance was in the republican base to push back against fox news sometimes. and so, certainly tucker carlson wielded that in a deeply effective manner that made his show so much more popular than others. but certainly he's not the only one who was doing that on that network and through that party and the show the network shifted. >> he didn't honestly invent the genre. he perfected it in a certain moment, right? in our politics, one of the other things about abby grossberg that i think is really interesting. i think people wonder, what is this fox news -- former fox news producer doing? how did she end up here? she actually answered that to anderson, explaining why she went from being a part of the problem to being almost like a whistleblower. >> i was definitely seduced for about a week by those ideas as tens of millions of americans were. and wondering if there could be
insurrectionists being wrongfully persecuted, and he's connecting that to his. you know the allegations against him. he's tying those things together very explicitly in his re election campaign, and that is also part of why this is so extraordinary and just ways that you could never imagine a former president doing or presidential candidate doing. he's running on people who are jailed for an insurrection, tying all of these cases against him to those cases , and, you know, i mean, republicans are basically just saying, well, i wish he wouldn't do that. but nobody is really nobody's saying what pence did tonight which is saying that is wrong and let me throw this to anderson. here's a question for your panel. anderson does what alvin bragg and the grand jury did today. does that help donald trump with his base and with maybe some other voters outside of his base? make the argument.
lean into the spectacle when it happens because i fully anticipate he's going to do that. but two things can be true at once and one is that he will. he will advantage whatever card he's got. and he can still be afraid of this. anderson i think donald trump is about to get a cold slap of reality here because over the years he has seen many people around him get indicted, and, in some instances , actually sent to prison. allen weisberg, michael cohen, paul manafort, yet he's always seemed to sort of dodged between the raindrops. but this is the criminal justice process. this is different. there's no amount of politicking. it doesn't matter what the count is in the senate between republicans and democrats. it doesn't matter what people tweet. you cannot influence this process that ultimately will come down to what happens in that courtroom. 12 jurors one defendant table of prosecutors, and if they find him guilty, he's going to be a convicted felon, and there's just no dodging it. so this is a real moment, i think of reckoning for donald trump. and it's likely to be the beginning of a long the first chapter of a long book, perhaps if the
imagining it for himself as caitlyn, this is, you know, this is not really an act of empathy . it's more about and this could be me next. and so this idea that he wants to get per blocked that he wants to get fingerprinted that he wants to be walked into whether i don't know if it's 100 center street or 80 center street. whichever court has we're talking about. it's just not true. that doesn't mean he won't lean into the spectacle when it happens because i fully anticipate he's going to do that. but two things can be true at once. and one is that he will. he will advantage whatever card he's got. and he can still be afraid of this. anderson i think donald trump is about to get a cold slap of reality here because over the years he has seen many people around him get indicted, and, in some instances, actually sent to prison. allen weisberg, michael cohen, paul manafort, yet he's always seemed to sort of dodge between the raindrops. but this is the criminal justice process. this is different. there's no amount of politicking. it doesn't matter what the count is in the senate between republicans and democrats. it doesn't matter what people tweet
do that. but nobody is really nobody's saying what pence did tonight which is saying that is wrong and let me throw this to anderson. here's a question for your panel. anderson does what alvin bragg and the grand jury did today. does that help donald trump with his base and with maybe some other voters outside of his base? make the argument. uh none of these prosecutions are fair. uh even though you and i know that that's not the case. whatever you think of alvin bragg that has nothing to do with violent insurrectionists being put in prison for violence on that day does does what happened? make that a little easier for donald trump to sell ? yeah appreciate what the panel back here with the team in new york john you you've actually well we were listening to vice president. you have been talking about the threat matrix that the kind of threats that are already coming in so from the beginning of the grand jury investigation
thanks so much. >> thanks, anderson. struck back with us, jamie gangel, anna henderson, and kasie hunt, i want to get your reaction to the document refill maker but going back to the hearing where former deputy attorney general memorialized the meeting he had with them president trump, let's take a listen. >> toward the end of the meeting, the president again, was getting very agitated, and he said, people tell me i should just get rid of both of you. i should just remove you, and make a change in leadership. with jeff clark, and maybe finally something will get done. i responded as i think i had earlier, in december, mr. president, you should have the leadership you want. but understand, the united states justice department functions on facts, evidence, and law, and those will not change. so you can have whatever leadership you want, the department's position will not
>> it's really not. >> do you wish you had pushed them more about a genuine six? >> no. i think there said deserves an audience. at the end of the day, when we started this process, here's a guy from britain introduced to them who does not have any political skin in the game, and they were absolutely convinced they would win the election. around about september of 2020. so why not have somebody around on the campaign trail, document and then win the election. so, the essentially made that choice to allow us in. >> they absolutely thought they were going to win the election. anderson, it is interesting just how out of touch they were, not only with what happened, but just with reality. >> yeah. i am fascinated to know, who would have had actual editorial control over this film, looking for more on this interview, it will be on your program starting at 10:00, tonight,
seeing happen. >> yusei david urban say, to anderson, that he is still pretty confident, that the base voters, those who elect the nominee for president, are not convinced, because they are not seeing it. they are not hearing the same set of facts. they are not living in this reality. >> it's too early.'s but i was assigned to say that, such an important point. it is too early, and the other thing, you touched on this, casey, is compared to what? if ron desantis does run, or if somebody else, who may be, more palatable on these issues, but is still trump the on other issues donald trump can walk right of the center into the nomination but if he is facing one person the whole time? different ballgame. >> jamie, dana, henderson and casey, thank you so much. david coates, and claire
alternate slate of electors came from on capitol hill. what did he say? >> you are hearing a lot of back and forth on this one. congresswoman mike kelly saying these allegations from senator johnson are patently false but he said to the spokesman that he has not talked to the senator in the better half of nearly a decade and has no idea what johnson is talking about. of course, we took this back to johnson, and he is still standing by his words. we caught up with him moments ago, and senator ron johnson says he still believes that these documents, this fake set of electors came from mike kelly's office. he says he is also basing this on what he has seen from a conservative reporter who has reported that. he does not know for sure, so, there is still a lot of questions about johnson's involvement in all of this. it seems like every day, we either get a bit of a different story or a little bit more of the story. i think the big picture here, anderson, is that a lot of these trump allies are starting to really feel the heat as this