very important, that's the winner of the week. brian tyler cohen, brittany packnett cunningham, thank you, that is tonight's reidout. all in with chris hayes starts now. ts now. >> tonight on all in. donald trump cannot make public comments about known or foreseeable witnesses in a case. the trump gag order is upheld in a major court decision, with big implications for the timing of the coup trial. >> it makes that march 4th trial date increasingly farm. as trump's codefendant in georgia helps make cases in four other states. >> the please lower your hand instead your true and correct the legal name. >> kenneth john chesebro. then the state of texas threatens to jail doctors for following court orders on a emergency abortion. >> this is the attorney general saying that she should be the one practicing medicine rather than the physicians in his state. >> and how in the world will be right wing spin machine handle another and unambiguously good jobs report? when >> i'm going to make the case that that decline in the unemployment rate is actually a negative, not a positive. >> when all in starts, right now. that evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, today, a washington d.c. court of appeals panel upheld a gag order against donald trump. inhe criminal case about his attempt to overturn the 2020 election. the prejudged panel narrowed the original order from district court judge tanya chutkan's some men that special counsel is now a fair game. but crucially the judges barred thex president from talking publicly about his staff court staff or her lawyers on the case he's also prohibit from making. and i quote here, public statements about known or reasonably foreseeable witnesses concerning their potential participation in the investigation or in this proceeding. as of this ruling, donald trump is legally restricted from attacking and of the potential witnesses against him in the coup trial. this is a big ruling with big implications. we're going to talk all about that shortly. but one of those witnesses could very well be this man, kenneth chesebro. unindicted coconspirator number five in jack smith's federal indictment of donald trump. of all the characters in the coup plot, we followed them all. chesebro maybe the most mysterious with the mo obscure motives. he also made provedto bone of the most important. kenneth chesebrohad unexpected path to plotting donald trump's coup. he's a graduate of harvard law, work as a researchsistant for the liberal constitutional loss carl or. he later helped tribe represent al refter the 2000 el. donated to democraticemocrat, candidates. but his political leading started to shift after he made a fortune investing in cryptocurrency. he joined the conservative legal movement, representing republican politicians. he got pulled into the trump election scheme by the lead attorney for trump in wisconsin, who chesebro had worked with in recent years. chesebro became one of the masterminds of the coup plot, working in the inner circle, with lawyers like john eastman, rudy giuliani, who are also indicted in georgia. he devised what became known as the fake electors plot. as the january 6th committee explained last summer. >> on november 18th, a lawyer working with the trump campaign named kenneth chesebro, wrote a memo arguing that the trump campaign should organize its own electors in a swing state, that president trump had lost. >> mister chesebro wrote to mayor giuliani, that the vice president is charged with, quote, making judgments about what to do if there are conflicting votes, close quote. mister chesebro wrote that when the joint section of congress got to arizona in the alphabetical list of states, the vice president should not count the biden votes, quote, because there are two slates of votes. >> that was a big innovation, right? in this desire and plot to overturn a free and fair election. you also note that kenneth chesebro is so obscure character at that point that no one knew how to pronounce his name properly. we went back and forth here for six months. we only learned it when he said it himself in front of a georgia judge in august. he was one of 19 codefendants indicted in the georgia election intece case. at first, he tried this gambit to jam up the prosecution, by demanding, as was his right under federal law, a speedy trial. like a real speedy trial, in a few months. then just days before that speedy trial was set to begin, chesebro accepted a plea deal. >> please lower your hand and state your true and correct legal name. >> kenneth john chesebro. >> do you understand this is a negotiated plea between your attorneys and the state have urged a negotiated recommendation to make to court? >> i do. >> chesebro, he all said in the newsroom, he pleaded guilty to one felony charge. he was sentenced to five years probation. he was also able, crucially, as a condition of this plea, to keep his law license, because of how that crime was categorized. now, when chesebro pleaded, he also agreed to testify against his codefendant. it was not clear if he had flipped in the way that we colloquially understand. was he now going to tell-all like michael cohen? or was this a begrudging move to avoid a worse legal faith? chesebro's lawyers indicated it was in fact the latter. that donald trump had nothing to fear from his client. >> i want to make something clear, he did not implicate anyone else. he implicated himself in that particular charge. someone asked me earlier if you were donald trump, would you be worried? i could personally, honestly, answer no. it's not that mr. chesebro is trying to protect donald trump or anyone else. he's not. he's ready to move on with his life. >> so that sort of seemed to close the book on chesebro. until late last month, when we started hearing about his possible cooperation in other inquiries. keep in mind, among chesebro and's 18 codefendants in georgia are some of the actual fake electors, the people who showed up to swear -- sign an affidavit saying i am the duly elted elector, despite the fact they were not. donald trump won the electoral college vote in their state. that's what they were claiming, right? several other states are prosecuting those grps of fake electors as well, in the individual states in which they met. the state of michigan charged 16 people in the fake electors scheme in july. accordingo a new report, chesebro is cooperating with investigators in michigan, his investigation may be broader than previously known. we just learned th chesebro's also cooperating in wiscons, indicating that the attorney general there also may be investigating their fake electors. this week, ten wisconsin ill -- who posed as fake electors settled a civil lawsuit, not -- to settle, they had to admit knowledge that joe biden did win their state. we've got criminal investigations also brewing in other states. both nevada and arizona, where kenneth chesebro has reportedly become a key cooperator. in fact, he testified before a grand jury in nevada, where six fake electors, including the state republican party chair, were invited to this week. the washington post reports that chesebro is scheduled to meet with investigators in arizona on monday. so, only's really makes you wonder whether chesebro actually has flipped in some meaningful sense. and what that could mean for donald trump, who remains in serious legal peril. kristy greenberg served as federal prosecutor in the southern district of new york where she was deputy chief of the criminal division. jeffrey toobin is an attorney and legal analyst who studied with chesebro in the 19 80s. i'll start with you jeffrey, because of all the characters, i feel like i've got beat on jim eastman, i know rudy giuliani's been in the public for a long time. chesebro remains the most mysterious. the only person i've ever seen write anything on what is the deal with kenneth chesebro is you. what's the deal with him? >> the correct pronunciation is that she's, because that's how he was known in law school. >> is that true? >> it. is he's from wisconsin, there's kind of a cheese thing going on there. it's a very weird story. can, who i did know, pretty well in law school, not had a lot of contact since then, i've known about him for airmail. he is a very low-key person. he is not someone who seeks a lot of attention. he has been an individual appellate lawyer, never with a full of law firm in all the years since we graduated from law school. but he did go through what seems to be a very consequential midlife crisis, a few years ago. he got divorced from his longtime wife. part of a midlife crisis. he started investing in crypto, made a fortune, tried to get larry tribe, his mentor, to invest in crypto as well. and, most significantly, as far as we are concerned here, went from being a pretty serious democrat, he worked with a lot of plaintiffs lawyers who tend to be democrats, to being a right-wing activist, big contributor to ron johnson, the senator from wisconsin, to president trump. and now, a major figure in this sham electors. it's bizarre. can i give you the inside story of why? i don't. >> but that's more than most people. and the classic divorce, to crypto, to coup, trajectory that you see so often. >> it happens. >> what do you think? i'm intrigued by the fact that he's apparently going all over the country cooperating in these very say -- he's kind of the mastermind behind us. he's a key witness in all of this. what do you make of the news that we've now got -- he testified in a grand jury in nevada, we've got indictments. he's going to arizona on monday, he's helping in michigan. >> i think you set it up perfectly when you said what do we mean by cooperation? as a prosecutor, what you think of his cooperation, somebody is truthful and credible, and they are cooperated in some way, whether it's by documents or other witnesses. it's unclear here, for kenneth chesebro, whether either of those things is really true. all we know, he when he pled, he didn't make a statement about exploiting what it is that he did that made him guilty. we have his lawyer statements that seemed to minimize his culpability, and then we have the leaks of what he said in the proper. which seem to suggest that he's covering for both trump and giuliani. he was saying giuliani wasn't the person i was repog he wasn't involved in this, when i think the documents show clearly that he was. chesebro's legal strategy over a course of memos evolves. in earlier memos, it's much more innocuous, there is this contingency plan. if trump wins the litigation, then at these electors -- fickle actors, can come into play. then, it shifts to something very different. when he talks about a meeting that he had with donald trump, he only talks about that first memo. the innocuous memo. >> right. >> the question is, how useful is he to these other states? on the big guys, maybe not so much. but could he cooperate down, which you usually don't do against some of the state electors, to say, no, whether or not they got some of these memos, which memos they got, which communications he had with them. potentially, he could be useful. >> here's a big problem with him chesebro as a witness, at least so far. you mentioned it in passing. when he pleaded guilty, the usual way one pleads guilty, especially in federal court, is the judge says, okay, you want to plead guilty. what did you do? >> -- >> i robbed a bank. he never has said that he did anything wrong. his lawyer, as you say, has minimized his conduct enormously. so the idea that he could implicate someone else in conduct that he said he didn't even do, is -- makes me somewhat suspicious. especially given his personality, that he is going to be a big successful important witness. >> it's interesting that we have all these state cases. i think the reason for that is we have a little bit of proof of concept. for that the thing is so faciay illegal. you signed a document. attesting to something very important, that you are the rightful electors. we've got your signature here. you were the rightful electors. i think the cut and dry nature of that has probably led to this, kind, of domino effect, with all the states doing it. i want to turn to this gag order. appellate judge, d.c. appellate judge basically uphold it, narrows, it says you can say what you want about jack smith. which is interesting. but here is the opinion by judge patricia -- mr. trump is a former president and current candidate for the president, there's a strong interest in what he wants to say. mr. trump is also an indicted criminal defendant and must stand trial in a courtroom under the same procedures that govern all the other criminal defendants. that is what the rule of law means. what's your take away? >> this is a hard issue. >> it is. >> donald trump is a public figure, and he is running for president. and he does have first amendment rights. judge chutkan also has the obligation to protect the integrity of her own trial, the way all judges do. this is not an obvious case. i think both judge chutkan and the appeals court, basically, got it right here. you can talk about anything, but don't intimidate the witnesses. in jack smith -- >> intimidate the staff. to me, that's been happening in new york, and it's so despicable and out of pocket, that it is happening. the you just can't do that. and at least, that here, shows up. >> and the threats on that law clerk in new york have been horrific. she is talking about getting 30 to 50 messages a day. >> to her cell phone, her personal cell phone. >> talking about her demise and her death. these are really serious. and so, for both of these appellate courts, both in new york, and in d.c., to say this is not okay. we are drawing some lines here. political speech, you want to attack doj, you want to attack the government, you want to attack jack smith, you want to attack laetitia james. all of that is fair game. but, when it comes to staff, when it comes to witnesses, that is more a part of the trial. and that is where we draw the line. and seems the appropriate lying to draw. >> there's another important part of this opinion, just in passing, where they talk about the time. exactly. >> that's what i was going to go to next. >> no mystery here about what donald trump is trying to do. donald trump is trying to do everything possible to delay this trial until after the election. and here, we have the d.c. circuit now, which is going to hear more about this. >> they'll be the front line before the supreme court. >> they are saying the public has an interest in a trump trial, that is a value that has to be considered at every stage in these proceedings. and that is a big deal. >> that jumped out to me as well in that decision. kristy greenberg, jeffrey toobin, we have nicely coordinated christmas and hanukkah thematic looks. >> happy second day, pal. >> happy second day. thank you for coming. coming up, the republican war on women's health reaches a new low. the latest threats against doctors on the texas attorney general. next. ral. next i always hear people say, you know, when you get older, you know, people lose memory. i didn't want to be that person. i decided to give prevagen a try. my memory became much sharper. i remembered more! i've been taking prevagen for four years now. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. ♪ ♪ ♪ we're building a better postal service. for more on-time deliveries. and easier, affordable ways to ship. so you can deliver even more holiday joy. the united states postal service. delivering for america. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. meet the jennifers. jen x. jen y. and jen z. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. first time i connected with kim, she told me that chase. her husband had passed. and that he took care of all of the internet connected devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. >> at the highest levels of the i'm here to thank you. republican party, there's all this talk recently about how reasonable they are goingto be about abortion. from nikki haley talking about humanizing her position, to donald trump portraying himself as a moderate. ludicrous lee, and pointing to exceptions, as a way to sell republican abortion bans. a sentiment echoed by other politicians. >> i do believe that there should be exceptions that are made. >> about 15 weeks, with all the exceptions. >> of course you have to have some reasonable exceptions. >> that's the way they all talk now, republicans. exceptions, of course, there's exceptions. look at the exceptions, there you don't have to be harmed by abortion. that's one of the actually do though when they of the power? you can look. here's a test case in texas. a state with a near total ban on abortion controlled entirely by republicans, with criminal penalties for doctors up to life in prison. and kate cox lives in texas, with her husband, and two children, near dallas. she's 20 weeks pregnant. the doctors tragically just discovered the baby she's caroming has a rare genetic condition that will almost certainly result in a stillbirth or death soon after birth. kate cox asked the judge to make an exception to texas law to allow her to get an abortion, so she can protect her health and also her future fertility, which is threatened. yesterday, a judge, under extraordinary circumstances, agreed, issuing an order allowing her to attain that medical care. then, and mediately, the republican attorney general threatened to jail her doctor, and to the hospital or any hospital that performs it, if they provide this abortion care. he is now petitioning the texas supreme court to prevent kate cox from getting the reproductive care that her doctors say she needs, from getting an exception to the state abortion ban. eleanor klibanoff it's the women's health reporter from the texas tribune, where she's been closely following this story, she joins me now. eleanor, could you just tell me a little bit more about kate cox, and how this came about? >> sure, so, kit cox is 31 years old. she lives in dallas, she already has two kids. she and her husband really want to this pregnancy. they were excited when they thought that they were pregnant. and then they learned that they had received the diagnosis that no parent wants to receive. that this much wanted pregnancy would not result in a happy, health