the way, of canada, australia, europe, everywhere, because there is a massive disincentive, particularly if your undocumented, to protect committing a crime. it is a myth that continues to permeate. it is just not true. >> it continues to permeate, because they continue to push it. they believe it is the strongest argument they have. >> i am glad you pushed back on its because it is just not. >> we got alecia in the text. i was like, if alecia were here, she would say, reads text message, okay. >> i loved it, it is great to see you all. have a great rest of your day. and "velshi" starts now. hey, good morning. it is saturday, june 22nd. 115 days have passed since the supreme court initially agreed to hear donald trump's outlandish claim of absolute residential immunity. and the weight continues. it will be at least several more days until the justices issued their own opinion on one of the biggest and most consequential cases in the court's history. with the presidential election for an half months away, everyday we don't get a decision in this case brings the twice impeached, recently convicted former president one giant step closer to evading a criminal trial over his role in the january 60 insurrection. regardless of the outcome, the implications are concerning. if the majority of the court somehow finds that trump is immune from criminal prosecution, then the former president may never be held accountable for the chaos that he stirred up in the waning days of his presidency. it would also be an endorsement of some truly, preposterous arguments made by trump's lawyers during the hearing in april like the suggestion that it would be okay for the president to stage a military coup, or to order silting six to assassinated political opponents. trump's lawyer argument argued, those orders could be considered official presidential acts, that would be on prosecutable, left the president is impeached and convicted by congress first. that would present a frightening prospect, especially since trump has been running his presidential campaign on the promise of exacting retribution and revenge against his enemies if he wins a second term. many experts don't believe that even this supreme court will go that far with its decision. at this late stage in the election season, a loss in this case will still be a major victory for trump. even if the justices find that trump's prosecution can move forward, it is logistically improbable to hold a trial now with just four and half months to go until the election. that is the unique dilemma district judge tonya segment will have to confront once the supreme court drops its decision , whatever that will be peer trump's election interference case has been indefinitely paused since late last year, we trump's team appealed is a unity it's immunity claim to high court. when she is allowed to present proceedings, she will give both sides approximately three months to prepare for trial. if we get the immunity decision next week, the earliest a trial could start is probably the first week of october. last summer, prosecutors said that they expect the trial to last about four to six weeks. in that scenario, the government will be be presenting its case as early voting gets underway in some states and the trial itself could last through election day. it is unlikely that any judge anywhere in the country would find it wise to proceed to trial close to an election, especially when the defendant is a leading presidential candidate. that is why the supreme court's glacial pace in announcing his decision regarding trump's immunity claim is so egregious. it has tipped the scales of justice in trump's favor. it has been a disservice to the electorate. we don't know why the court is still sitting on this decision. recent ethnic scandals involving some of the justices make it difficult to give this particular court the benefit of the doubt. that is a part of the crisis of legitimacy we've been talking about in recent weeks. regardless, what we do know is this, the supreme court has the ability to resolve matters swiftly when the case calls for it. back in 1974, when the supreme court ruled that then-president richard nixon had to comply with a subpoena, ordering him to turn over some tapes to the watergate special prosecutor, chief justice warren burger wrote an opinion or the court that the reason they took up the case was quote, because of the public importance of the issues presented, and the need for their prompt resolution, and end quote. in that instance, it only took the court 16 days of the oral arguments to issue an decision. in the case of bush v. gore in 2000, the hearing was held december 11th. a decision was announced one day later. even the current supreme court has proven it can move much faster on urgent matters. earlier this year, it only took justices 25 days after oral arguments to the side that trump can remain on the ballot in colorado and other states. it has now taken the court more than twice as long to issue a decision on trump's absurd claim of residential immunity. nearly 2 full months have passed since the supreme court held a hearing in that case. now, regardless of what the court decides, it is too late. joining me now, leah littman, professor of law at the university of michigan law school, cohost of the script-- "script grundy progress." and, most of the sisters- in-law podcast and msnbc political analyst . good morning to both of you. thank you for being here. you published an important piece on this very subject in the "new york times" this week in which you wrote quote, for those looking for a hidden hand of politics in what the supreme court does, there's plenty of suspicion on donald trump's as yet undecided immunity case, given its urgency. you have acknowledged that there could be legitimate reasons for the delay, but it does not really matter now.>> even if the supreme court is in good faith, trying to decide this case according to a normal schedule, the effect and everyone knows the effect of taking this long is to basically give donald trump a kind of immunity, even if they ultimately reject the immunity he is arguing for in the case. they are ensuring he is not going to have to face a jury of his ., who would decide whether he interfered with a lawful transition and peaceful transition of power by contesting the results of a presidential election, even as he is running to assume that office once again. again, that is assuming everyone is acting in good faith. but what we know from all of the extracurricular activities is, many of them have pretty partisan leanings. the recent stories about justice alito's homes flying multiple flags associated with the stop the steel movement, the movement to overturn the 2020 election, raise serious questions about whether any individual justice is attempting to drag their feet in order to give donald trump this type of reelection immunity. >> kimberly, what happens in the case donald trump wins the election and none of these cases go to trial, and indicates that donald trump loses these elections and none of these cases have gone to trial? >> what will very likely happen is, we will see the state case, which state case in georgia, which has already been delayed, continue to do so, and it be a lot more difficult to try to move forward on that with someone who is a sitting president. as for the federal cases, donald trump will be in charge of the doj, which will all but surely dropped those cases and there will be no trial to go forward at any point. and what could be even more concerning is, based on how this court rules on the immunity issue, that is still a decision that will be hanging out there and binding on all future presidents until, or unless it is overturned by the court. you could get a double whammy there that not only will donald trump be in office, he will be out of reach of the criminal courts seeking to hold him accountable, but there could also be some really bad precedent of that that immunity for future presidents he can exploit as well. segment ironically, the trump team was arguing the opposite, saying, if you don't give immunity, presidents will continually prosecute the defeated. one of the most profound things is that trump's lawyer argued some absurd things at the hearing, military coups, tilting six when he was asked about that to assassinate a political opponent. you would think, given that these were examples that donald trump's attorneys provided, that justices would have an easy time striking down this argument. what is the potential legal hold up? what are they struggling with? >> during the oral arguments, it seemed as though justices were basically attempting to inject all kinds of propensities in this case. rather than providing the actual facts, they pondered, what if the president makes a simple mistake, and is then charged with a crime, as if the stop the steal movement was an see that donald trump did for 2 months, leading up to january 6th. basically, what they were trying to do, write an opinion or the ages that would cover every possible question related to presidential immunity, even though that is entirely unnecessary in this case. all they would have to do is decide whatever the scope of presidential immunity is, at a minimum, it just does not cover to attempting to overthrow the results of a valid election. that would be very easy for them to write and they could save the potential difficulty questions for later. >> kimberly, we are also still waiting on fisher b. the united states, another big decision related to the prosecution of january 6 participants. talk to me about the interplay between that and donald trump's federal interference election interference case too. >> yes. there is both direct and indirect interplay there, ali. the case is challenging whether some of the charges donald trump is facing, as well as hundreds of the january 6 right participants are facing or have been convicted of involve interference with official proceeding. that is an enron era law that was passed in the wake of that scandal, that was meant to address things like destroying documents, which is what happened in the course of that investigation, but that the federal authorities had a difficult time prosecuting, so that new law was passed. the january 6th defendants are challenging that law thing, that was not meant to apply to the sort of circumstances on january 6th, even though there was an official proceeding, the certification of election results, that was meant more toward financial fraud, destruction of evidence. the supreme court will decide whether those charges will be struck down, those convictions reversed, and two of the charges , as i said, donald trump is facing in his federal trial in d.c. involving those charges as well. >> the other trump supreme court case earlier this year, regarding whether or not he was eligible to be on the ballot, not only did the court decide that within 25 days of oral arguments, they resolved it before colorado's primary, which was uniquely important in that particular instance. it suggests that the court is acutely aware of the political calendar and other external forces, which leads one to the conclusion that there may be deliberately slow walking in this one. >> they are absolutely aware of the potential implications of the timing of their decisions. i think it is important to underscore the colorado case, they still managed to get out an opinion less than one month after argument in order to ensure the issue would be resolved before super tuesday, even though there was considerable disagreement in the case. there were multiple opinions, a separate writing by justice barrett, and a separate writing by the three democratic appointees, and still, they managed to get out within a month. even if the immunity is invoking some kind of conflict among the justices, it is very possible for them to still get out a decision quickly. >> let's talk more here it is a bit like reading tea leaves. could they delay they are having have something to do with real disputes between members of the courts? we have seen some fierce distance from some justices and some of the decisions that have already come. is that what is happening here or something else mechanical, where perhaps one justice is holding us up because they are busy writing their dissent or concerns? >> i think it is very likely the former. we have seen, in recent years, this court take longer and longer to decide you are and fewer cases each term. what i think is happening there is that there used to be a consensus building center, i don't mean an ideological center. justices on the court were incentivized to find consensus in the case they were deciding. even if it meant a very narrow decision, if they did not agree totally, if the venn diagram can overlap a little bit, just write a narrow decision about that overlap that could get a broad consensus. that makes it a lot faster to circulate and get out an opinion . right now, you don't have people like that, like anthony kennedy and stephen breyer who can work with elana kagan and the chief to build that consensus. you have nine justices on their own island. the decision that came out about that federal ban on handguns for people under domestic violence orders was a perfect example of that. you have a majority opinion, but you also had five other opinions of each justices that did not have any interplay with each other. there were each single justices or a pair of justices, given their view on the world that is how this court is operating. they are not playing well together. that is why all of the consequential decisions, all of the remaining decisions on the docket are big decisions, highly consequential, and are taking so long for the court to get out . >> i appreciate your analysis, both of you, this morning. thank you for being with me. leah litman, cost of "strict scrutiny podcast." and kimberly adkins, senior columnist at ""the boston globe" opinion" and an msnbc political analyst. coming up, ayana presley of massachusetts joins me to discuss her new role in a new initiative for project 2025, the far right's vision for a trump amount reimagined american government. plus, by the 10 commandments being displayed in public schools is not just bad policy, it is a sign of growing alliance between the maga movement and christian nationalists. i will talk to deputy national security advisor to president obama about the policy for the world as it is not and why it is important we adjust accordingly. and i will call to order this week's meeting of the "velshi" book club. then layton joins me to discuss his powerful memoir, "heavy." o the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in 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prepaid card. call today! three people are dead and 10 were wounded from a mask shooting at a matt butcher grocery store in fordyce, arkansas, about 70 miles south of little rock. officials say, two police officers are among the wounded and some of the other people shots are in extremely critical condition. police took the shooter into custody following an exchange of gunfire. joining us me now is for you, thank you for joining us this morning. what more do we know about the investigation and the victims? >> reporter: good morning, ali. fordyce is the latest community in america to wake up to the horrific reality that a mask shooting occurred in their backyard. this is a small town of about 4300, very tightknit. a lot of people knew one another, new someone inside the grocery store and frequented themselves. this started shortly before noon yesterday when witnesses say, the gunmen began shooting in the parking lot of the grocery store. nbc has obtained video of what appears to be the suspect with what looks like a long gun, pointing and shooting at various cars. we also heard from a witness inside of one of those cars with her sister. she says, the gunmen shot at her car unfortunately, only shot the tire and then proceeded to go inside the store. witnesses describe people literally running for their lives as far as the victims, as you mentioned, two law- enforcement officers were shot. they are expected to survive. the gunmen and suspect in the situation has been identified as 44-year-old travis eugene posey, is also expected to survive. the other victims have not been identified by authorities just yet. our local affiliate here in arkansas is saying, one of those victims who died is a 23- year-old nurse, a mom who has a 10 month old child, who came to this grocery store on her day off. as you can imagine, completely tragic for that family and his community as a whole. as far as posey goes, he is now facing three counts of capital murder and other charges could be 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