been used as journalism. how on earth could this have happened? deja vu on the presidential campaign trail with the pundits again denigrating mitt romney after a pair of victories by rick santorum, and many prodding newt gingrich, again, to quit the race, and what about santorum's charge that fox news is schilling for romney? plus, comedian ali wentworth on her new show. her marriage to george stephanopoulos, and how the president reacted when he heard she would be entertaining at the white house. >> obama said, ali wentworth, isn't she inappropriate? which in my world is a huge compliment. >> huge. i'm howard kurtz, and this is "reliable sources." >> it was the most popular episode in the history of this american life. public radio reported on alleged abuses at a chinese factory that makes ipads and iphones. it relied heavily on one-man performance artist mike daisy. hurz hoe ira glass put it. >> when i saw mike daisy perform this story on stage, when i left the theater, i had a lot of the questions. i mean, he is nott a reporter, and i wondered did he get it right? and so we've actually spent a few weeks checking everything that he says in his show. then the workers start coming in. they come in in twos and threes and fours. there's a group that's talking about hexane. n-hexane is an iphone screen cleaner. the problem is that n-hexane is a potent neurotoxin, and all these people have been exposed. their hands shake uncontrollably. >> that never happened at all. he never met those people. daisy twended himself in a statement saying i stand by my work. what i do is not journalism. i regret that i allowed this american life to air an excerpt from my mono log, but this is my only regret. hardly the only regret from the program that was left to explain this fiasco. joining us now from new york, eric, senior editor at all things d.com, and here in washington eric, the blogger for the washington post. was it a fatally flawed approach for a news program to tackle such a serious subject with a guy who is a performance artist? >> basically the reason is that we accept an ad mixture of fact and fiction in our entertainment products, and while mike daisy's mono log is an enter timt product, and a thought provoking one the fact of the matter is that when the fact checker for this american life contacted daisy, daisy created a story where the translator, the key character here is this woman named cathy. who search as translator, fixer, all purpose helper in china. none of the three key anecdotes that appeared in the radio piece could be corroborated, and he lied about it. >> we'll get further into that in a second. given the fabrications here, one lie piled on another, and you have written about this. where does this fit? >> it's pretty prominent. i think it's somewhere up there. it's definitely top five, top ten. i would say. i think it's also top five, top maybe two or three in terms of how they handle it. they came out straight. they did a huge, you know, 58 minutes on my podcast. in addition to an entire edition of "this american life "toy correct the record, and it was incredibly compelling piece of journalism that correction of the record. i think that if it was an egregious mistake, it was a glorious, glorious correction. >> one that they would like to -- yes, i agree with you. it's a first class retraction, that we invited ira glass to appear on this program this morning. he was not able to do that, and mike daisy did not respond for our e-mail inquiries. let me go back to new york. just let's tease this out a little bit, but it's not just that mike daisy does -- who micks up facts and fiction -- facts and fekz for a living just told a couple little white lies here. he claimed to have visited places he didn't visit. he claimed to have seen things he didn't see. you mention this business about the chinese translator. he tried to prevent this american life from reach this translator by changing her names so nobody could find her. that's pretty premeditated stuff, is it not? >> my hat is off to rob schmitz of marketplace who brought the stories to this american life for the retraction episode. he put cathy translator into google, and she was the first hit. he found annie. just on a lark he called her and her name was not anna as mike daisy had told "this american life" fact checker. the point in the piece for all things -- who would think to lie to ira glass? on top of that, who would think to lie to ira glass's fact checker. on top of that, i mean, what we finally have is a brchl of anecdotes. the n-hexane segment, that was in a different city, 900 miles away, and mike daisy claims to have met these people, which is highly unlikely, and cathy says it never happened. >> another important thing here is that one of the -- the biggest thing that got trashed in this whole thing is the theater. you know, in other words, arts and entertainment, you know, there's this notion somehow that theater it s for liars now because somehow it's okay if mike daisy lies in front of a crowd. ira glass in that episode said, you know, if i were in theater and you said you talked to somebody but you didn't, that's still a lie. >> i want to pick occupy that, but as you were mentioned, for people not familiar with this actor, let's play a little bit of mike daisey's one-man show which is called the agony and ecstasy of steve jobs. >> steve jobs has always been the enemy of nostalgia. he has always understood that the future requires sacrifice. steve jobs is never afraid to knife the baby. >> he is i very entertaining fellow, but if you have a serious radio show you are going to peg your credibility on a guy on this guy who enter tanz people for a living, who says he met with workers who were poisoned by this cleaner, their hands were shaking. he never met with any of them. >> it's almost an impossible retro fit there. and that's what he figured out is that this guy had been in theater after theater telling these tall tales, and so he faced sort of a quannedry. he said he was trapped. in other words, oh, if i tell these guys, hmm, that's not true, that means i've been lying to all these people for months and months, and if i don't -- if i don't tell them, then this thing won't run. he felt very trapped, and it was really -- that's what made the correction, the retraction so compelling. >> let me pick up with more of what mike daisey had to say. he says that -- you know, he is actually proud of his work because it sparked growing scrutiny of apple. the combination of fagt, memoir, and dramatic license to tell its story, and i believe it does so with integrity. now, eric, what he calls dramatic license, i would call lying through your teeth. he doesn't seem to be owning up to the magnitude of the fabrications that he perpetrated here. >> the only possible motivation i can come up mike daisey had for doing what he did in this american life is to raise his own profile and to become a media darling, leading a discussion about worker rights in china, worker rights in the electronics industry, worker rights generally. what he has ultimately done has damaged that discussion because now we have to start all over. we have to completely recalculated what is true and separate it from what is not. he has done more damage to a legitimate, important economic and policy discussion that we absolutely have to have, and the only reason that i can come up with is that he wanted to sell more tickets to his show and raise his media profile, and it's unfortunate. >> all right. let me go now to los angeles where we're going to talk to kye, who is from the program "marketplace." good morning, sir. we had trouble getting your shot up at the top. would you take a moment to explain how your reporter for "marketplace" was able to blow the whistle on this scam by mike daisey? >> sure. it's a pretty basic story. i mean, rob has been in and out of china reporting there and working there for 15 years. he knows the place. he heard the mike daisey piece in january when it aired, and as many other reporters did, he thought things didn't sound right. the idea of guards having guns at the gates. that just doesn't happen. you're not allowed to have a gun in china. >> fox con is the supplier for apple that makes -- >> they're the ones, right. they're the ones that make the cases. anyway, rob actually did a very basic bit of reporting, and he says it in the "this american life" show that airs this weekend. he googled cathy translatoriongun called her up and went to the factory with her and started talking to her. it was just basic, basic shoe leather reporting. it was great. >> then he goes to "this american life" another public radio show and reports that he and ira glass together went to talk to mike daisey. my question to you, was he investigating the journalism of "this american life" or working with "this american life" to expose what turned out to be a fabrication? >> rob got ahold of our executive producer debra clark, and he said, listen, i have this story. let's talk about how to handle it. we thought about it for a couple of days. debra said this is ira's story. we want to get the truth out about this however the best way to do that is. she got together with ira. they had a couple of conversations. they decided what they were going to do was a two-track thing. rob would do advertise hen story for us which aired on friday afternoon, and then rob in a separate editorial chain would do the deconstruction of the thing with ira and mike daisey in a joint interview in the studio. if you heard "this american life" broadcast this weekend, first 20 minutes is rob saying how he got to the truth of this, and then the last part is ira talking to mike daisey about it. >> exceptional good reporting. [music playing] confidence. available in color. depend® for women is now peach. looks and fits like underwear. same great protection. depend®. good morning. great day. i'm going to own my own restaurant. i want to be a volunteer firefighter. when i grow up, i want to write a novel. i want to go on a road trip. when i grow up, i'm going to go there. i want to fix up old houses. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. i want to fall in love again. [ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪ it's a smart way to go. fore! no matter what small business you are in, managing expenses seems to... get in the way. not anymore. ink, the small business card from chase introduces jot an on-the-go expense app made exclusively for ink customers. custom categorize your expenses anywhere. save time and get back to what you love. the latest innovation. only for ink customers. learn more at chase.com/ink back talking about the stunning retraction of the radio practice "this american life "everybody" there's a story about -- in new york this guy the performance artist mike daisey, we're all kind of now beating up on "this american life," but you right in a piece this morning that you are equally outrageous is the national media's willingness to give daisey is a platform radio fooe repeat the same lies and fabrications without making the same lies without vetting them. >> mike daisey, because of the prom 234e7bs brought on to him about the "this american life" appearance, he appeared on cbs news sunday morning which i think the piece is definitely going to have to be walked back if not retracted entirely. he repeated at least one of the now tainted appearances. there were appearances on hbo with bill maher. there were appearances on "news hour" on pbs and there was an op ed in the "new york times" and an op ed in the new york dailies news. >> he was on cnn international as well. >> exactly. all of these numerous -- there was a reporter's roundtable on cnet news where he jointly appeared with charles of the "new york times", and at the end of that appearance charles says -- urges people to go out and see daisey's show. so even the "new york times" is relatively tough and defensible reporting on this issue and that's a little tainted here. everybody who has touched mike daisey on this issue in the last three to four months is fainted and they need to go back and reexamine their archives and unpack it. >> k eh, the host and senior editor of "marketplace." why do you think so many over media outlets could put this guy on and give him anchor air time and to repeat these allegations without checking them, as your reporter spent a lot of time checking and was able to, you know, unravel what really was a house of cards built on a bunch of fiction. >> i think there are two important points. traul, it's that mike daisey say great, great storyteller, and when you have a guy that spins a we can line that and gets you involved, it's really difficult to take it apart and say, listen, let's think about this for a second and what doesn't really work here. there's another part of this, though, that maybe you got to in the first couple of miss minutes before i join you, but there are parts of mike daisey's story that is true. it does happen that apple has had under aged workers, and it does happen that n-hexane, and it does need to be said, but the bounl line is that mike tells a great story, and people sort of suspended their disbelief. that's what happened. rob schmidt said i have been here, i know this. let me look around a little bit. >> what is the difference here between what mike daisey did and jason blair? >> you know, blair, i think, he -- that's a really good question. i would say that blair -- >> he claimed to have conducted interviews for the "new york times". he never conducted. >> he said he was places he never was. daisey claimed to be places he never was. he did go to china, but he never intud anybody who had n-xe ane exposure. >> like jasonon blair, he actively covered up by trying to obscure, for example, by not giving the correct name of the translator. the program that he knew he was going to report this as journalism from finding out, and so i'm having a hard time with this. well, i'm an entertainer and it was just kind of taken out of context. >> that's one excuse jason blair didn't have. there does seem to be a fair amount of parallels between the two. i do think that gsh and, you know, the thing about jason blair ace thing is he is cribbing reports from a.p. and other places, so he was just trying to not be noticed. mike daisey was, like, look at me, look at me. jason blair just wasn't doing the work. he was trying to sort of slip under the radar. you know what i'm saying? >> unfortunately, in addition to damage to his own -- very briefly, go ahead. go ahead. >> that's sort of what mike daisey did as well. he said i read reports and heard these stories, and he threw them in there. that's exactly what he said he did. >> right. the difference, of course, being that he said i was there. i saw their handshake. i met with these workers. i was in the dormitoriedormitor. it was just the tissue of lies and mark place did a lot of pulling apart that tissue of lies. thanks very much. coming up in the second part of ""reliable sources" "the pundits are, again, denigrating mitt romney and calling for newt gingrich to quit. plus, a conversation with ali wentworth with her new book and life with abc's george stephanopoulos. [ male announcer ] this is lois. the day starts with arthritis pain... a load of new listings... and two pills. after a morning of walk-ups, it's back to more pain, back to more pills. the evening showings bring more pain and more pills. sealing the deal... when, hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. it can relieve pain all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lois... who chose two aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. [ female announcer ] try aleve d for strong all day sinus and headache relief. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. agents, when it comes to insurance, people feel lost. that's a dead end. don't know which way to turn. this way. turn around. [ woman ] that's why we present people with options to help them find coverage that fits their needs. almost there. whoo! yay! good work. that's a new maze record. really? i have no idea. we don't keep track of that kind of stuff. well, you should. [ male announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers ♪ bum, ba-da-bum, bum, bum, bum ♪ you could be forgiven for thinking that the coverage of this week's presidential primaries sounded pretty much like the coverage of last week's presidential primaries. it was not a good week for mitt romney. he lost the two mark econtests in alabama and mississippi. it's never a good week for mitt romney. rick santorum is always on the verge of becoming a serious threat to romney, and the next contest is a make or braenk state. >> if two third place finishes in the south is mitt romney's iron grip on the nomination slipping away. >> santorum really connects with people and n a way that governor romney doesn't seem to be able to do. >> santorum's biggest hope is to keep the thing as chaotic and confused as possible. >> newt gingrich who failed to win the two southern primaries offered a predictions. >> we now have three or four days of the news media, and they'll all say why doesn't gingrich quit? >> it turns out gingrich had a pretty good crystal ball. >> it's time for newt to go away, but he won't. gingrich seems to think he is running against what he calls the elite media. that might explain why he keeps losing to the candidates. >> it's hard to see the rationale for a gingrich candidacy. >> newt is the guy at the bar who realizes he is not getting the girl and doesn't want you to get the girl either. >> joining us now to examine the latest twists and turns in the 2012 coverage in new york catherine crier, former anchor for cnn, abc, fox news, and author of you new book "pat yonkt acts." and matt lewis, senior contributor of the daily caller, and david shuster, former msnbc correspondent, now chief substitute anchor for "countdown" on current tv. catherine, what do you make of the pundits just denigrating and picking apart and criticizing and slamming mitt romney week after week whether he wins or loses? >> so what's new? every election cycle revelation, the media is critical. pundits pick the candidates apart, and we do our best to keep the races going. we love the conversation. frankly, in this situation the candidates -- the candidates keep offering up just extraordinary events, comments, behaviors for us to pontificate on. i think the responsibility -- >> that may be true. david shuster, it seems to me there is particular piling on in the case of romney. he was never expected to do particularly well, and then there was another round of why -- >> a couple of things. look who his competition is. those guys are -- i mean, they -- anybody jeb bush, rich daniels would have flattened the earth on those two guys xshgs here's mitt romney, he is still struggling. i don't think it's the media that's saying, oh, that i a problem for mitt romney. the media is reflecting the public polling. it's not the other way around. the public polling has often said there is an enthusiasm gap for