0 paul -- you could not be around him and not have a good time. >> were you close to paul? >> you couldn't be any closer. than paul paul and i and buster and i. he's wonderful, wonderful. >> one of the things you enjoyed doing together, just riding the property? >> i loved doing anything with paul paul. it was an absolute delight. but, yeah, one of the things, i mean paul's passion, paul was passionate about a lot of things, but that property was really a passion of his. he loved to do -- he loved to work it, he loved to work the fields, he loved to work the food plots, he loved to hunt. he would work on the roads. i mean, he would -- he would work on all of it. he would work on the structure -- he would work on the whole property. it was his passion. >> so on the evening of the 7th, the jury has been inundated with data from various different sources, but -- >> sure. >> just ballpark, can you, knowing what we know now after reviewing everything, but roughly when do you remember paul getting there and you getting there and starting to ride the property? >> now that i had the benefit of seeing all of these records, paul paul got home, i believe a little bit before 7:00. and i got home a little bit before him. i think the details have been that i got home around 6:42 or 6:45 or something like that and paul got there, you know, very quickly thereafter. by 7:00. >> so you rode the property for a while. do you remember when maggie arrived? >> yeah, it was -- it was later than that. it was 8:00 or after 8:00. i think it was after 8:00 and looking at the records. little bit after 8:00. >> and do you remember -- do you remember her arriving or where you were when she arrived? >> i believe i was at the shop when she came through. which would not be unusual for her having been away. if somebody had gotten the mail, maybe not. if somebody had not gotten the mail, it would be perfectly normal for her to pull through. i believe she did pull through there that day. and paul and i were at the shop, i believe. >> and what did you do after maggie arrived? >> maggie went to the house. and i know that. but shortly after, however i learned it, maggie got home, i went to the house when maggie got home. and i left paul at the shop. >> so and what did you do when you got to the house? >> i saw mags, talked to mags. and i took a shower. >> the clothes that we saw in the snapchat video was -- is that the clothes you had on at work that day? >> yes. those are the clothes i had on at work that day. >> and the jury has seen you in those clothes. and on june 7th, how tall were you and how much did you weigh? >> on june 7th, i'm a hair over 6'4", right at 6'4". on june 7th, i was about 265 pounds. 264, 265. >> and this was in june. june 7th. >> yes, sir. >> when you're outside, riding around, and doing -- do you get hot and sweaty? >> absolutely. paul and i had done some things, we unloaded bulldozers, cleaned the bulldozer, fooled around, yeah, i mean i had sweated. i was, you know, i was heavy and taking prescription pills also makes you sweat worse. at least taking oxycodone makes you sweat more than you normally do. >> so was it unusual for you to take a shower when you got back to the house? >> not at all. >> and when you -- after you took a shower, what did you change into? >> i changed into the clothes that you've seen in this trial, shorts and the shirt. >> okay. when you got out of the shower, and changed clothes, what did you do next? >> i went back out where mags and paul paul were and -- for dinner. >> what was going on? >> mags had -- as you heard, blanca had prepared dinner. but it had been cooked earlier. mags had fixed -- i know mags had fixed mine and her plate because i didn't fix a plate. she may have fixed paul paul. paul paul was eating and almost done eating by the time i got back out, which also wasn't unusual. paul paul was always on the go. he never sat still. and, you know, he would sit down to eat, but then he's going on to his next item. >> and -- >> maggie and i ate. >> and you all ate the table, at the den, what is your normal habit? >> we would do both. when we ate at the table, it was really more sort of more formal or -- not formal, but just more of an organized thing. our normal -- what we would normally do on a regular evening is eat in the den in front of the tv. and that's where we ate that day. i ate on the couch. the table. maggie had a little -- a tv tray that she kept over there, and paul paul would usually sit in a recliner and eat off of the ottoman. >> was the tv on? >> yes. >> was that normal for the tv to be on? >> yes. tv -- if we were in the house, the tv was on. >> so what happened next? >> paul paul moved on doing whatever he was doing. i don't know if he was in the gun room doing something or he was in his room doing something. he was outside doing something. i actually thought he had gone to the shed, but in looking at to the shop, but in looking at the benefit of having these records that we have i know he was still at the house, somewhere around the house doing something, but he wasn't in there with maggie and i. but maggie wanted to go to the kennels. and i had eaten dinner. i laid back on the couch, where i was sitting, maggie wanted to go to the kennels. and she asked me to go. and i didn't -- i didn't go at that time. i didn't want to go. >> why didn't you want to go? >> it was hot. i had just had a shower. i knew i would end up doing more work. sweating more. and the dogs is always a chaotic scene. and i just didn't want to go right then. >> well, let me ask you what had you done the previous days, like, friday and saturday and sunday? >> start with friday? >> yeah. >> or go backwards? >> yeah, start with friday. just briefly. >> so june 4th, my dad was in the hospital in savannah, georgia, at memorial hospital. and i went down to visit him friday afternoon. and i stayed with him in the hospital. i spent the night there, you know. he was real sick. he was having a hard time. >> did you get much sleep friday night? >> no, i mean, i had a -- a real sweet nurse found me -- at first there was a hard chair in there, like this, but a nurse found me a soft chair, sort of like a recliner, so, i mean, i'm sure i slept, but i didn't sleep, you know, i didn't get a night's sleep, no, sir. >> and then saturday and sunday? >> saturday, we had plans with -- with buster and brooklyn. you heard about brooklyn, buster's wonderful little girlfriend. and mags and i had plans with them to meet them in columbia to go to the south carolina -- it was a regional baseball tournament. south carolina was playing virginia, i believe. so when i got back from savannah, and met up with mags, at some point we headed to columbia. there wasn't a lot going on in between us. we headed up to columbia and met bust and brooklyn. >> and did you stay in columbia saturday night? >> we did. we went to the ball game. and i remember it was an evening game. we went pretty early and tailgated. maggie and -- maggie had reconnected with a college friend, who coincidentally had married a college friend of mine. and they had a son that played for carolina. he was a first baseman. and a really good little player. and we met them and tailgated with them and it was a lot of fun. had a lot of parents of the players that were playing for carolina, and it was just -- it was a fun time. we tailgated and then we went to -- it was a night game, so we went to the game, and the game got over, you know, it was fairly late into the evening. and after that, bust and brooklyn and mags and i, i believe we went to the restaurant in the hotel where we were staying, but we went and had dinner and then bust and brooklyn went home and, of course, maggie and i went to our room. >> and then get up the next day and another game? >> another game the next day. that's right. and -- >> and after that you head back to moselle with maggie? >> yeah, we went to the game. that's right. mags and i go back to -- >> moselle. >> moselle. >> the jury heard about miss rask talking about you bringing krispy kreme doughnuts to your dad. >> maggie loved them. she would spoil my dad and always, always taking him something. my dad loved sweets. and she and i picked up doughnuts and took them krispy kreme doughnuts to him. >> and then you spend the night together at moselle on sunday night? did you both spend the night at moselle on sunday night? >> yes. >> and then the 7th was a workday? >> that's right. it was a monday. monday june 7th. >> i'll rephrase it. >> i'm sorry. >> was monday the 7th a workday for you? >> yes. >> okay. >> and i just wanted to -- in the background, moving forward to when you testified previously about maggie asking you to go to the kennels, were you tired? >> oh, yes, i was tired. >> and you had just had a shower. >> just had a shower. >> and you said that, well, did you go with maggie to the kennels? >> no. >> immediately? >> no, i did not. >> what did you do, when did she leave? >> yes, she did. she left and paul paul was gone. >> do you know how she got to the kennels? >> at the time i didn't. but now looking at these condensed records, and understanding the timeline it is clear to me she rode with paul paul. >> okay. and did you stay in the house? >> yes. >> for how long? >> not long. i laid back on the couch, put my feet up, and, like many times when maggie asks me to do something that i didn't want to do, or didn't start out doing, i changed my mind, and decided i'm going to ride up there. and i did. >> and how did you get to the kennels? >> i went on the golf cart. >> was the golf cart at the house? >> yeah. it was. and it was there most of the time. >> and when you got down to the kennels, what was happening? >> just what i thought it was, it was a little bit of chaos. i mean, it is clear to me that mags had just let the dogs out. the two dogs that were out were really her pet dogs. one is gravy, you heard about a black lab, that's gravy, that's buster's dog, and the other is the yellow lab you heard about, that's bubba. bubba was mine and maggie's dog, but it was really mine, maggie's, bust and paul paul's dog, a family dog, but bubba's the dog i hunted. i mean, maggie loved bubba. she loved grady too, but she had a special place for b for bubba. when the dogs were let out, first thing they would do, they would run -- if you look at the overhead picture that you've seen, there were planted pines right behind the kennels. so you got the kennels and the chicken coop sort of form an l shape. and in that "l" was some planted pines. first things the dogs would do is go out in that kennel and, you know, bubba, and grad i think learned this from bubba, but bubba had to mark every tree. he would go and he would do a little number on this tree and that tree. you know how dogs marking his t. that's the first thing those dogs did when they came out. when i got there, those dogs were in that area. so that's why i believe that it hadn't been long before they had been let out. grady was chasing guineas. which was a normal thing to do. >> what are guineas? >> guinea fowl, a guinea fowl is like a chicken, a domestic bird that, you know, we had them. they make a lot of racket. it is like i know this sounds silly but like a guard bird. because anytime, you know, they make a lot of racket anytime anything unusual is going on. if anything disturbs them, it could be a person, somebody driving up, whatever, they're going to make a lot of racket. so grady's chasing the guineas. you know, paul's fooling with rogan's dog cash. maggie's just kind of standing there watching the dogs, which is and they were in that place as the dogs were out longer, they branch out more. but at that point in time, they were right there. that told me they hadn't been out a long time. bubba, bubba catches a chicken. i'm talking to maggie for just, you know, a short time before bubba catches a chicken. i take the chicken, put it -- when bubba -- bubba didn't chase -- these dogs didn't chase the chickens to kill them. they didn't kill them. they did kill them sometimes, but it was about the chase with the dogs and they were proud when they caught one. you could tell by the way bubba would prance to you when he brought the chicken to you, he was proud that he had caught it. but he wasn't trying to kill it. and so most times the chicken wasn't dead. and that chicken wasn't dead. but a lot of times they would be stunned and they would be just real lethargic. you had to take the chicken and you had to put it up somewhere, where, you know, the chicken could be by itself for a minute and it would eventually, usually, you know, come back to normal and go on about its, you know, whatever a chicken does. >> did you get the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> i did. i took the chicken from bubba and put it -- on top of that. >> we have seen this video of paul with cash, rogan's dog. did you know -- did you know that was going on? what do you remember about that? about -- >> i knew paul was -- i knew paul was fooling with -- when i pulled up on the golf cart, maggie was standing back sort of where the driveway would be. it sort of runs out at the feed room. the storage room is what we call it, it has been called a feed room. but it sort of ran out. maggie was a little bit further up where she could see back in that angle where the dogs were. paul was fooling with rogan's dog, back toward the kennel, if i remember when i first got there, paul was more in the driveway, but then i knew paul was in the kennel fooling with cash, yes. did i know what he was doing? i didn't know exactly what he was doing, no. >> did you -- >> i knew he was fooling with his -- i knew he was fooling with his tail. >> was cash in the kennel when you pulled up, you think? >> not when i first got there. >> did bubba or grady have any collars on? >> yes. >> both dogs, one dog, you remember? >> i don't know about grady, but i know bubba had on his, what we call a tracking collar. paul, for his hunting dogs, paul had a system, a series of tracking collars. i think there were five, maybe six, but a tracking collar that had a device that would tell you where that collar was. so that as bubba was bad about, you know, he would stay close for a minute, but then he would take off and he would especially do that on maggie. he would take off and run. and so he had on a tracking collar that if he did that, you could, you know, you could know, okay, he's, you know, half a mile down here. it is not going to follow him, but so far, but it would follow a good long distance, so you could go get the dog if he ran off, which bubba frequently would do, especially when it was just mags and bubba. so paul, paul probably would have been the one to put that on bubba. >> so you've got us where you have gotten the chicken out of bubba's mouth and put it up on a doghouse or something? >> i believe -- i believe what i put it on, i don't remember this, but i've seen pictures and all this, and i saw the chicken sitting on top of the -- what looks to me like a portable dog crate. wherever it was sitting on there is where i would have put it up there. you know? i don't believe anybody else moved that chicken and ultimately that chicken did die. >> and what did you do after you got the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> i got out of there. i left. i went back to the house. >> before we do that, we have seen the dog kennel video with cash and mr. davis and slowed it down for him. did you see the water hose in that video? on the ground? do you remember seeing that? >> yes, i do. >> was the water hose out? >> obviously. in the video. but i don't specifically remember that. but i can look in that video and see it. >> right. >> but that's not something that i noticed. >> so, but, you see it in the video here? >> yes, sir. >> and then the two dogs were out. >> absolutely. bubba and grady. >> and then you -- you -- how did you get back to the house? >> the same route, same route i had come on. i came down the driveway, made a left on -- you saw my route in the car, i drove that same route. >> my question obviously wasn't clear enough, were you in a vehicle, did you walk? what mode of transportation did you use to get back to the house? >> same way i came. i went back in the golf cart. and it was the golf cart, if you remember that mark ball testified he saw where we normally would park it. you pull up, pull along the front entrance, and it -- you come in from the left and go just past it and be on the right and you come in from the right and you would be just past it on the left. and that's where i got in it and that's where i put it back. >> did you do anything else before leaving after you took the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> no. >> we heard about bubba being stubborn. how long did it take you to get the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> bubba could be stubborn but bubba would listen to me and another thing, when bubba had on that collar, one of the other features of that collar was -- >> did bubba have on the collar or grady? >> bubba had on the collar. >> bubba had the collar. >> i know bubba had a collar on. and i'm not sure about grady. >> okay. go ahead. >> if i misspoke on that, there is no question about it. bubba had on the collar. i assumed grady did too, but i didn't -- i didn't -- even i saw grady, i didn't notice for a fact that grady had on a collar. but he probably did. >> so -- >> it makes sense to me that he did. >> how long did it take to get the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> it didn't take long. he's coming back to show me hey, i caught this chicken. he's not running from me. he's proud of the fact he caught this chicken. he's -- he comes right up to me. bubba was really strong. but, you know, you just -- you take your thumb when the dog is clenched and his mouth say little bit open, you take your thumb and you push his gum in really tight against those sharp teeth and his mouth opens right up. took the chicken out and put it on, i believe, the portable dog kennel. >> and then left? >> and then i left. >> you did leave? okay. and did you go back to the house? >> i went straight back to the house, to the air conditioner. >> and what did you do when you got back to the house? >> i laid down on the couch. >> and then what? was the tv on when you went back? >> yeah, i mean, the tv never got cut off. >> so you went back to the house, you laid down on the couch, and then what happened next? >> i'm not -- i'm not positive, i dozed off for a minute or didn't doze off for a minute, but i got up off the couch, and i was -- i made up my mind i was going to visit my mom. >> had you spoken to barbara earlier in the day? >> i did. >> and -- >> i talk to barbara most days. if i don't see her, i talk to her. >> that was your understanding of your mother's condition on later on in the afternoon of the 7? >> she was agitated, which she got agitated when my dad, you know, we were putting my dad in a hospital and he had a lot -- over the 18 months, two years, i mean, my dad was in the hospital, he was in the hospital a lot. and my mom -- i believe my mom knew when my dad wasn't there. because she would get agitated. that's just the only term you can think of. she would get agitated. she would cry a lot. she would -- she would be fussy when she normally wouldn't be fussy. and she was -- i know alzheimer's patients are unpredictable, but i'm convinced she knew. it happened frequently. and barbara ann told me, your mom's agitated, you need to check on her, i gave her medicine, she's resting. so wasn't anything urgent. but she is resting. so what barbara would do, barbara could handle her -- barbara could handle her better than -- my mama, we all loved barbara. my mama loved barbara. my mama could get -- barbara could get my mom to do things that nobody else -- when she fussed for anybody else, including me or my brothers or my sisters, barbara could get her, you know, in