Transcripts For WMAR This Week 20100509 : vimarsana.com

general and rudy giuliani. and fears in europe take attention from a big jump in jobs. all that and our roundtable. . and as always, the sunday funnies. the taliban said, next time you want to wreak mass destruction on america, we ll hire bp. good morning. and happy mother s day to all the moms watching. a sunday first, attorney general, erick holder. welcome to this week. good to be here. let s start with the investigation into faisal shahzad. what is the latest. we have developed information that the pakistani taliban was behind the attack. they helped facilitate it and probably financed it. is there evidence that he was working within a cell in the united states or was he operating from directions from pakistan? the investigation is ongoing. we re exami inining overseas connections. the last few days, us fushls have met with pakistani officials, the message, as conveyed by secretary hillary clinton is this. we want more. we expect more. we have made it very clear that if, heaven forbid, an take like this that we can trace back to pack stan were to have been successful, there would be severe consequences. what would they be? what more do you need the pakistani government to be doing beyond increased military action in north waziristan? in connection with the shahzad investigation they have been aggressive, cooperative with us. i think we have been stats fied with the work they ve done. we want to make sure that that type of cooperation continues. if it did you not, we will take the appropriate steps. as now have with regard to shahzad, think we re satisfied with the level of cop ration we have received. did the pakistani government know about shahzad before this happened? we have no information that the pakistani government was aware that he planned this. pakistani taliban leader appeared in a video last month saying that the time is very near when our soldiers will attack the american states in the major cities. at the time he issued that warning, u.s. policy makers didn t think that the pakistani taliban had the ability to reach into the united states. they were obviously wrong? i m not sure we didn t think they had the ability. we didn t think that was their aim. we have seen with the shahzad incident that they have the aim and capability of doing that. that s why they have taken on a new significant. shahzad was on a watch list for bringing large sums of cash into this country. he was taken off that watch list. did the u.s. government drop the ball? i don t think so. we is done a good job of monitoring the people that we need to identify as threats. in connection with the resolution of the plot, american law enforcement was successful. more than 200,000 people traveled from the u.s. to pakistan last year. how do you keep track of which ones intend to do us harm? it s a difficult job. we try to cruise intelligence forces, telltale signs. the majority of people that travel back and forth w are well intentioned. we have to focus and make sure that our intention is directed at people that would do our nation harm. there have been reports that others arrested for terrorist plots in the united states had travelled to pakistan. are there ties with zhad? investigation is ongoing. i think it is proceeding at a good pace. we have a good amount of information in a relatively short period of time. we re going to be continuing to work on it. there was a time when the fbi and law enforcement lost track of shahzad after the incident before he got on the plane. what happened? we had layered approach. at the end of the day, i think we were always confident that he would be picked up. the question was, where and when. a surveillance was conducted. we wanted to have him at fairly good distance to observe him and see if he would make contact with other people connected to the plot. contact was lost far rel lively short period of time. how long, an hour? maybe about an hour. what was key was the layered approach. he was caught before he was able to leave the country. but he almost got out. we got lucky in a few ways. the reason that we avoided a horrible incident is because he was apparently an incompetent bomb maker, right? there was a bit of that. i think also one has to look at the overall operation. he was stopped before he was able the leave the country because of the notification that the fbi made the put thoinl no-fully list. we also has vigilant citizens who looked that vehicle that he left and saw the smoke coming out an notified in the in the appropriate authorities. think this was a good example of what an aroused american populus and a vigilant law enforcement agency can do. some people say he should not have been read his miranda rights. i know the public safety exception was invoked. does the current miranda system, year ated before i was born and was updated with the public safety exception in 1984, so none of the crafts we s craftee aware of this kind of threat, does it give you the flexibility we need? i think we have to look that. the system this place is effective. we have used the law enforcement authorities very effectively. people have within given warnings, they continue to talk. i think we want to look and make determinations as to whether we have the necessary flexibility. a system that can deal with the situation that agents now confront. the public safety exception comes from a case called quarrels. if weir going deal with the new threat, we have to give consideration of modifying the public safety exception. think we ll be reaching out to congress to come up with a proposal that is constitutional and rel vapt to our time and the threat we face. what kind of modification? more time for interrogation before the rights are read? or what? i think there are a number of possibilities. those are the kinds of things we ll be discussing with congress. so make sure we re as effective as we can be that agents are clear in what sit they can do. we re going to be working in congress to come up with something that gives the necessary clarity. is flexible. is also constitutional. senator joe leashmieberman a others introduced legislation to strip citizen ship from anyone thought to have terrorist ties. there is a point that is senator made that president obama has the authority to order the assassination of a u.s. citizen, the cleric al aqui. this is what senator leiberman had to say. if the president can authorize the killing of a united states citizen because he is fighting for a foreign terrorist organization, we can also have a law that allows the u.s. government to revoke al aqui s citizenship and others that have cast their lot with terrorist organizations. isn t that a little odd? i m not going to assume that what has been said there and ordering anybody s assassination is true, be with regard to the bill senator lieberman is talking about, i have not been able to review it. there are potential constitutional problems with it. i have not reviewed it in great detail. the system we have if place presently takes terrorists and can put them in jail for extended periods of time. we can put people in jail for the res of their lives. we can execute people. one has to wonder if we needfur. the release or transfer of the release or movement of detain knees from guantanamo. i want to underscore that the detain niece are related to previous cases from the previous administration. the report says that a detainee that obama administration released has returned to terrorist ties. we have to understand that the process in place when we took office was exhaustive. it voled law enforcement, the intelligence community. we took into account all of the information we had on each one of those people. did an analysis on each of them and made a determination of who was a threat, only put people in countries where we thought structures would be put in place to keep them from being a threat. what structures could exist in afghanistan? we re going suspend the repatriation of people to yemen. to make sure that we don t take anybody out of guantanamo and put them in a country where they could pose a threat on the united states and military forces. you re not going to confirm that he s rejoined the fight against the united states? i m not in a position to do that. last fall, you announced that trial of the century against khalid sheikh mohammed. he s a person who believes that a president s supposed to have hands off with his justice department. those things that are the problems of the attorney general, all he needs to be is in formed. this doesn t seem to be the case any longer. are you disappointed that white house seems to be politicizing the decisions you make? i don t think it s been politicized at all. it s a national security matter. i think it s appropriate for the president to be involved. we re work something to see where the trial will be held. nothing is off the table at this point. we re trying to come up with a mace where these people can be brought to justice as quickly as we can. taking into consideration a variety of things we have to consider. given the fact that sit a national security matter, as opposed to something else that the justice department might be doing, it s appropriate. skrou have said we re a nation of cowards because we don t speak openly about race. do you think the arizona immigration law is racist? i don t think it s a good idea. the immigration problem that we have, the illegal imfwrags problem is national one. a state-by-state solution is not the way to go. your issue is there are concerns that racial proe tiling can take place? that s one of the concerns i have. that could lead to a wedge drawn between certain communities an law enforcement, that leads to the problem of people in those communities not willing to interact with people in law enforcement, not willing to be witnesses, not willing to share information. i think row have to think about the collateral consequences. i understand the frustration of the people in arizona. it s one of the reasons i think it has to be a national solution. do you think it s racist? i think the concern is how it would be enacted or carried out. you get on a slippery slope where people will be picked on because of how they lock, as opposed to what they have done. the oil company bp has spotty record in cutting corners and worker s safety in some places. are you looking into possible criminal charges for the spill in the gulf and ways to make sure that the xraens held accountable? the primary importance is to make sure that the oil is broken up and can t get to shore and do daniel to the wetlands, businesses that are on the coast. i have sent representatives from the justice department to examine what the options are with regard to the activities that have occurred there. whether or not there has been malfeasance on the part of bp or oceana. the primary item of interest is to deal with the spill. that s all the time we have. thank you so much for coming by. thank you for having me. joining me now is the former mayor of new york, rudy giuliani. thank you for joining us. thank you. ? if you had been in charge of this investigation into faisal shahzad, what could you do differently? anything? i would not have given him miranda warnings after a couple of hours of questioning. i would have asked the president to declare him an enemy combatant. we could have questioned him for a much longer period of time. whether it works in the case of shahzad or it doesn t, the better policy is to give the intelligence agents the maximum amount of time to question him, check out the credibility of what he s saying. i don t know yet what the truth is here, we shouldn t. think too much has been leaked. the administration has talked too much about it. the more you talk, the more you warn the people to hide. i didn t want the other side to figure out the information we had before we had a chance the act on it when i was a former prosecutor. to get them to tell the truth, corroborate what they re saying, to cut it off after 30 or 40 minutes like they did in detroit on christmas day or after two or three hours doesn t make much sense. if they need the change the law, have some urng si about it. go do it. don t just think about it. so you sport support what the attorney general had to say? i do. i am frustrated by the lack or urge spip we have had three now where we ve seen big breakdowns. ft. hood, christmas day, now this one. we have to stop thinking about it and studying about it. i don t know how often the attorney general said he was study ig things. how about we stop studying things and start doing things? we fix a system of political correctness. we miss signals that shahzad was giving us. going back to pakistan, bringing in, i have forgotten how much cash he brought back. i think it was $80,000. that doesn t trigger an alarm? several years ago? we have to fix these instead of talking about them. he was put on a treasury watch list. i am not sure what more could have been done after that? don t you see a pattern here, jake. i m talking about the entire apparatus, not just the obama administration. we missed the signals with the bomber in detroit. missed the signals with major hasan. maybe we have to say, go back and fix all this. rather than studying it. we ve been at it long enough to stop studying and start doing things. you point to any time that a u.s. citizen was interrogated as an enemy combatant as opposed to in the criminal system where the result of the interrogation was more successful than apparently this interrogation is going? well, that s okay. like that. i m glad it s going very well. i have administered miranda warnings probably a thousand times. sometimes they work, sometimes they don t. depends on the reaction of the person. it s the matter of policy that concerns me. it s not a smart thing to do. don t interrupt a terrorist in the middle of talking to you. i think the attorney general nose that. all i m saying is, okay, do it. what they did in detroit, in giving abdulmutallab a warning, giving him a warning after 30 minutes makes no sense. it makes no sense to do that. it may work sometime, may not work other times, it s not the best policy to follow. so far, two in a row, we have gotten lucky. let s not rely on luck. let s rely on solid policy. my understanding in in abdulmutallab incident, they had to take him to get medical care within 50 minute and that is why he stopped taublging them. because his life was in danger. be that as it may, i hear the point you re making. in the trial of richard reid in 2003, judge william young said, you re not an enemy combatant. you re not a soldier if any war, to call you a soldier gives you far too much stature. we do not negotiate with terrorists. we hunt them down and bring them to justice. some people day by making shahzad, who is less successful than several of the mobsters you put away, who did far more heinous things, that what you re proposing would elevate someone like shahzad. you get more rights as a civilian defendant than an enemy combatant. that s matter ofsemantics. you re giving them less right. look at the thing with senator leashman s ideas. the reluctance shows a sense of, i don t know, not understanding the magnitude of the problem. why shouldn t we revoke the citizenship of someone designated an agent of a foreign power? or an agent of a terrorist group? of course we should. we should be able to revoke it. i would be happy to test the constitutionality of that. we have an attorney general studying that also. they re at war with us, we re studying what rights they have. we re worried more about pondering the rights of the terrorists than uj si about curing some of these things that h keep us safe and not have us rely on luck which is how we got there the last two ones. i want to get your reaction to what happened in utah yesterday. senator bob bennett, lost his party primary. are you worried that republican party is growing more hostile to more lib rat liberal to moderate republicans? no i don t think so. i think the reality is that the republican party is very much based on its core principles. i think that at this point, president obama has pushed the envelope so far that the republican parent wants candidates effective to standing up to the administration. i see an administration that in terms of economics and foreign policy seems to be moving us to european social democracy. government taking over car companies, the banks, the energy sfri, the health care industry. regulated the way the social democrat okay sis, which largely have failed in europe, have been doing for several generations. we need republicans who are committed to standing up against that. and really moving news a different direction. think that s what you see going on with the tea party movement and in the elections. su so much, mayor giuliani. nice to talk to you. the roundtable is next. police in texas arrested man that used the alias barack obama while trying steal money from 25 atms. officials could tell something was up when he was seen taking money from banks instead of handing it out to them. this is data. data generated from an electrical grid. from wires, streets, businesses, homes. when you can harness data, you can do things you couldn t do before. prepare for alternative energy sources, accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles, help prevent blackouts. see the data from energy usage as it happens and you can do what they re doing in places like california and build a smarter energy system. let s build a smarter planet. what will happen if your spouse outlives you by many years? 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sit is that the pakistan connection, if true is good because it indicates the decline of the trade craft of terrorism over time. the underwear bomber and this man are staggeringly incompetent and minor league figures in comparison to the scale and precision of the 9/11 attacks. part of the credit goes to the bush and obama administrations for the drone attacks and the pressure they re putting on the leaders. the bad new, if there is some, is the targeting of times square. let me tell you a story. right after 9/11, i asked jack valenti if he worried that someone could target universal studio. he said, no, what worries me is six back pac bombs in six cineplexes on a saturday night. have they started to figure that out? the ideology seems to be pow powerful, shelby, even if the terrorists are not as good. the ideology semis as good. this guy lives faisal shahzad, who is innocent until proven guilty, has not had a bad life here. i think there s a larger clash this the world between the third world people who coming into freedom experience that as shame and came in really into soft of a confrontation with their own infore yorty. i think jihadism compensates for the sense of inferiority. as they move into modernity, they fail, they re having a rough time making the transition. there s this wonderful ideology based in the idea of killing people, of death, you know, if i put a gun on a table, i m the most powerf fuful man in the ro. i m not inferior anymore. that is atracking to people who have this inner sense that i m never going to make that move into modernity. i want to play some sound for you from john boehner. talking on thursday, about the attempted attack. yes, we have been lucky. but luck is not an effective strategy for fighting the terrorist threat. this is a nation at war. stopping at nothing to confront and defeating the terrorist threat this is how we best protect the american people and set an example for the rest of the world. you heard the attorney skren. there was some luck at stake here. how you to see republicans respond? i think you see john boehner there. no one can pause to give credit to the new york city police, the fbi, the customs bureau what was a rapid rollup of this guy, putting him into custody. getting him to talk. so i think that they re almost they re on the verge of rooting for failure here. i think they want to damage obama so badly. i think that s tragic for the country. it seems to me that they need to recognize success, push the system to do a better job. think one of the things that george said is relevant, think, there s more pressure now on the pakistani taliban because of more effective strategy that s being employed in pakistan. but that means that we re likely to be confronted with more threat. it s time for the republicans to get on board. i understand it that they almost root for failure on the economy side as well. they describe the job number on friday as bad news, 290,000 jobs. this is i think, beyond the pail. robin, what are your sources tell youg about faisal shahzad? apparently, he s sing like a bird, i would told last night. there s also a lot of tall tales he s telling. they have to keep going back over and over. he says he met are the leader of the taliban, mehsud, yet, here he carried out an operation that was as amateurish as anything we have seen since 9/11. this is a group that is capable of very sophisticated operations. here s a guy that bias some fireworks that according to the manufacturer couldn t blow up a watermelon. he was not engaged in a suicide bomb. he walked away and intended to fly back to left the keys in car. to his car and his home. there are questions about, have we reached a point where the taliban doesn t need to recruit people. that there are muslim angry about what the united states is doing in pakistan along the border with the drone attacks and, did he respond because of what he saw when he went home? there s a real danger that we re crossing a line into unintended consequences in the same what they osama bin laden was a defacto ally until after the deployment in the gulf war. turned on the united states and saudi arabia. we have seen the consequences. are there dangers that we re creating more people like that. there are millions of angry people angry for the reasons shell be mentioned. sooner of later, they re going to set off bombs in america. it s time for both parties to prepare americans for this. this is inevitable, you can t be perfect, get used to it. t israel has the robust economy and a terrorism problem. the response from glenn beck the other day. he was talking about whether or not shahzad should have been read his miranda rights. it s easy to follow the constitution when you benefit from it or are not affected by it. what happens when when row go against what you want to do? when you want to strap this guy down to the rack and make him talk, but you don t, because it violates the constitution. that s what makes the country different. obviously, not fox and friends, it s his own show. here we have him saying there s nothing wrong with highmirandiz this guy. i never thought i would see glenn beck as a beacon of reason. what s going on here, shelby? i think people are confused about this issue. genuinely. i am. i hear all sorts of some people say you need you don t need, it doesn t matter if you mirandize people or not. they re going to talk, you want to befriend them, you want them to give you information. when they do, it s it may be held against them or may not any way. it s difficult to know what to which way to go on this. i think glenn beck is taking the classic constitutional position and saying, let s make sure we do it the right way. this is what makes us unique as americans. let s mirandize people we think are terrorists. major giuliani said put them into the military system. if you look back and see what s happened. shahzad, abdulmutallab, the headley in chicago, they were all given their miranda rights. they kept talking, kept cooperating. they got actionable intelligence out of them. if you look at the cases under the bush administration where u.s. citizens were put into military detention, they didn t talk for years. finally, the cases ended up being resolved on the other side. i think the real question is what works? and i think there is indication that the path that the attorney general shas poe seeded down is working better than the alternative that is being suggested. i think the idea of expanding the public safety exception is one that ought to be taken up by congress and probably will be in short order. robin, what is wrong with the argument that this is a war that we re in and so we should treat these individuals as enmist of the state and treat them dr. sam mudd, he went before a military try bunle. it s not like these thimgs were just hatched up by george w. bush. why is it so crazy? we have real question to answer. what senator lieberman introduced this week. how do we handle them? what do we do? if you engage in terrorism, is there citizenship liable? there are questions about all of these issues. how far do we want to go in stripping the document that makes sauce great nation? at what point do you in the lieberman bill, say that anyone who vote, anyone that serves in another country, anyone that serves in a foreign army is el zwroibl have their citizenships those laws are on the books. that s right. they re not applied. lots of americans have served in other armies. it really opens up a pandora s box. if we engage in actions like that. i want to go to another topic. happy mother s day, by the way. it s also europe day. you have wanted to talk about the greek crisis for a long time. i ve resisted. i apologize. why sit, do you think, that we don t hear much from policy makers, the media, about the greek debt crisis? forget that. why should the american people care about this? it s an early heart attack that should alert us to the fact that we could have a bigger one. greece is not too big to fail. it s too connected. what europe is doing and the americans are doing, we re bailing out the banks that have, particularly the french and german banks, t have bought a lot of greek paper. the united kingdom has a worst fiscal picture. los angeles has a worse fiscal picture. new jersey, illinois. worse than greece? yes, in some senses. what we re doing is seeing the collapse of a model. the welfare state model that says you can constantly enlarge government on a narrower tax base and making people more department on the government. the caption said anti-government mop mobs, they re composed of government employees fighting for their entitlements. one of the things i thought was interesting was arguing about usausterity cuts. not hard to imagine people in the united states in the same position and getting angry about it. because we too, want to have our cake and eat it, too. right. there s always the impulse in government to do the good. do something that to make sure everybody, every human being alive in your country has health insurance and so forth. it s fine to do the good. but the only way to do sit to also grant people, expand the idea of entitlement. and make people feel they re owed something as part of their identity. as time goes on, you, as george said, they call it a debt crisis, it s an overspending crisis. you re constantly trying to too good things, expanding entitlement. you get to place where it starts to collapse. california, my state, is in dire straits for this now. people rye krioting. there s thouno money. it s not that someone is doing something evil. or on proeppressive. the state just has no money. greece, it s 113.4%. the united states, 5 the.9%. that s not the shell game we have going on. how important sit for the american people to pay attention to what is going on in greece because we re going to face that same problem someday soon? they re related. greece is linked into a system that could in the near term affect our growth. the most important thing we need to do is to continue the job numbers that came out on friday, the pace of expansion of the u.s. economy. that s the most important factor that will get our deficits down and get our debt under control. over the long term, there s a structural deficit. when cow put that chart up, 52%, it reminded me when i left the white house, it was 33%. i think there was a lot of structural deficit built in in the 1980s. the absence of regulation. the absence of government, the absence of regulation in the financial sector led to collapse. and a response to create demand in the economy, put people back to work. we have to get that deficit down over time. get the, and i think that the administration is going to be challenged by this. i think that s why secretary gates speech yesterday talking about the need to restrain the growth of military spending and use the savings to support the structure that is necessary was quite a significant speech. and probably didn t get as much attention as it deserved. i want to turn to breaking news from yesterday. in utah, bob ben ntd lost his party s primary. here s senator bennett reacting to the news. the political atmosphere, obviously, has been toxic. it s clear that some of the votes that i have cast added to the environment. looking back, i wouldn t have cast any of them any differently, with the exception of one or two, knowing that they could kos me my career. he s a classic, down the line con conservative. i think the tear party people and conservatives are looking for conservatives that are anti-obama. this is a reaction to him and the expansion of government that he has embarked on. thinks the more that than a fight among conservatives. i think bennett is a casualty of obama. this is an anti-washingtonier. how do you get more washington than a three-term senator, who occupies the seat once held by his father, a four-term senator, who before that worked on the senate staff and as a lobbyist in washington. he s a wonderful man. he s going against terrific head wind this is year and cast three votes, t.a.r.p., stimulus, and a man date for health care. you might like one, two, or all three of them. robin? it s the beginning of a trend. you have the next coming up, kentuc kentucky, arizona, we re likely to see it elsewhere. it s fascinating to see how many new delegates participated yesterday. democracy is about the majority, but it s the majority of people that participate. the roundtable continues in the gren room. later check out of fact checks. sfx: car crashing this is onstar. i ve received a signal .you ve been in a crash., i ll contact emergency services. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 investment firms wouldn t even dream of overcharging people. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 inact, they d spend all of their time dreaming up ways tdd# 1-800-345-2550 to give us more for our money. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 i guess i d just like to see a little more give tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and a little less take, you know? tdd# 1-800-345-2550 if it was up to me, they d spend a lot more time tdd# 1-800-345-2550 worrying about my bottom line. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 (announcer) at charles schwab, investors rule. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 are you ready to rule? w, in mem now, in memoriam hey, there, georgie girl swingening down the streets so fancy free nobody you meet could ever see the loneliness there for the phils, they ll send young right-hander robin roberts to the mound. he won 20 and lost 11 this year. it is long gone! a home run! this week, the pentagon released the names of nine service members killed in iraq and afghanistan. we ll be right back. if you were to stand at a road and the cars are whipping by, and all you can do is take a snapshot of the way the road looked 5 minutes ago, how would you know when to cross the road? 9 out of 10 organizations still make decisions this way every day. using out-of-date information. the organizations that are most competitive are going to be the ones that can make sense of what they learn as fast they learn it. that s what i m working on. i m an ibmer. let s build a smarter planet. and while it can never be fully answered, it helps to have a financial partner like northern trust. by gaining a keen understanding of your financial needs, we re able to tailor a plan using a full suite. of sophiscated investment strategies and solutions. so whatever s around the corner can be faced with confidence. northern trust. look ahead with us at northerntrust.com. a windy mother s day in washington. leer are the sunday funnies. wall street on thursday in a panic when the dow suddenly dropped 1,000 points in matter of seconds. it was so bad that the e-trade baby had to be changed. another attack on the homeland. scary stuff. this is crudely constructed. amateurish. it was a failure. no, guys, it was scary, remember? the car bomb was fertilizer, gasoline, fireworks and propane tanks, still safer than a toyota. the ceo of british petroleum was on this week yesterday. he was not convincing. how can the american people trust there will not be another explegs at another bp facility? we re work and we ll be right back. cree] how a car performs in a quarter-mile? [ engine revs ] or a quarter-century? is performance about the joy of driving? or the importance. of surviving. to us, performance is not about doing one thing well. it is about doing everything well. because in the end. everything matters. performance without compromise. that is what drives us. [ male announcer ] we call it the american renewal. because we believe in the strength of american businesses. ge capital understands what small businesses need to grow and create jobs. today, over 300,000 businesses rely on ge capital for the critical financing they need to help get our economy back on track. the american renewal is happening right now. it s like hardwiring the market right into my desktop. launch my watchlist a popping stock catches my eye. pull up the price chart. see what the analysts say. as ip back, streaming video news confirms what i thought. pull the trigger done. i can even do most of this on my smartphone. really, it s incredible. like nothing i ve ever experienced. trade free for 60 days on redesigned power e-trade pro. be sure to check out our fact checks later today. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. weal see you next week. buick lrosse. l-equippd get inside each. and see what you find. if perction is what youursue, this just might change your course. meet the new class of world class. the twenty-ten ! lacrosse, from buick. may the best car win.