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up to his lies, to his attempt to overturn democracy, they were doing it not just against his interest. they were doing it against their own best interest. >> if the new standard is going to be any time a elected official lies about something, by the judgment of a prosecutor, and takes action on that, are they guilty of a conspiracy? howie: joining us now to analyze the coverage robbie suav e, senior editor at " reason magazine" and laura fink , robbie put aside the deflections and the rhetoric for just a moment. is this a strong indictment of donald trump when it comes to his alleged efforts to overturn the election? >> i think it's somewhere in the middle ground. obviously, it's spelling out a lot of bad conduct on his part, but it is going to come down to this fundamental question and i wouldn't want to be in the position of the prosecutor having to prove that donald trump actually didn't think he
this is the persecution of the person that's leading by very very substantial numbers, in the republican primary and leading biden by a lot, so if you can't beat him, you persecute him or you prosecute him. howie: my friends at the other channels, you could have spent the next 24 hours challenging what he just said. actually neck and neck with joe biden. trump, of course is the front runner for the gop nomination and much as the media don't like the idea, could well win back the white house. howard kurtz and this is mediabuzz. ahead we'll look at the testimony of hunter biden's ex- business partner, behind closed doors, about the help he got from hunter's father. the pundits hit the airwaves with strikingly different takes on the latest trump indictment. >> the attack on our nation's capitol on january 6, 2021 was
you do not get to overturn an election by force. howie: boy what's interesting, robbie, on this question of words versus action, is that john lauro, on all five sunday shows today, trump's attorney says oh, he didn't direct mike pence to try to stop the election. i mean, he said you could be a hero, instead you're a coward. i don't know. it sounded pretty close to a pressure campaign to me. >> well, this is something eventually a jury will have to decide. i mean, with respect to what we just heard, i mean it is calls to people, huddling in rooms. that is speech. now obviously you don't have the right, you can commit a crime and there's a speech component and still a crime. i'm not naive about that. but is the pressure on state officials finding votes that are out there that my advisors have given bad advice and i'm wrong but i think those votes are out there then that doesn't look like -- howie: what about the people in his inner circle and there are a number who have said publicly he
migrants so much and then when we send them to you you don't like them. you know? we can see that. yeah, you like them when it wasn't your problem because you're not a border state. [laughter] then when he show up in chicago and new york you're like what are we going to do with these people? howie: it's not unusual for ma her to call out his own side whether he has a drink in his side or not. jeffly goldberg, the atlantic editor in chief, a super-smart reporter and editor, reflects his left-leaning magazine by tv standards probably a good fit for the program. i thought this was a really juicy item. ron desantis agreeing to debate california governor gavin newsom on hannity. newsom is dying to run for president, trying to boost his national profile, except the nomination is currently owned by a guy named biden. desantis would love the exposure
the economy, his general stewardship of the office. look what's going on at the southern border. there is so many reasons that he is a weak candidate. now of course trump has as many flaws we know this and that the lineup, if it is a trump- biden general election matchup, there are many reasons why trump stands a good chance of losing again in those exact same swing states that hurt him in 2020, but biden is not the strongest candidate. it's just so obvious, so they have obama come in and tell him, you know, you've got to be ready for this. howie: up your game. >> it could be tougher than you think. you know? that's a big obvious conversation i think. howie: yeah, nobody could compete with donald trump for airtime and general coverage this week or any other indictment week. he just absolutely floods the zone but in general, i'm always just so taken by the fact that the current president of the united states operates in such a low key manner. we don't hear from him on weekends. he often has statements put out where he could go in front of the cameras.
for him to avoid the debate, although i have to say i would love to see the gop fireworks as i think we all would, but i think that no matter how good he is, he's one of six voices on the stage, and you know, he's a great counterpuncher which makes it be a great spectacle to watch but ultimately he's tens of points ahead of his nearest rival and he has no need to do this. he is the ex-president and they are simply sprinting behind him trying to catch up. howie: it is true, robbie, that he has no need to do this , certainly don't see president biden debating but you seem to feel like in the end, or you seem to be suggesting, implying, he's not going to be able to resist the lure of the cameras. >> he's a tv personality. howie: i forgot that. >> that's what brought him to the attention of so many americans in the first place. that's why so many people initially said this should be the guy to fix america's problems. he's particularly good at using the medium of tv and he's talent
griff: i think i do, howie. this is a very significant part of the indictment. when i read it, it took me back to the morning of january 6 i was the reporter for fox news starting before the sun came out , out there covering what be president trump's speech and there were several people that spoke that morning, and it was the moment that rudy giuliani and john eastman, another lawyer , advising trump on the election strategy of whatever he was trying to do, they were standing up there on the stage and they were talking about the pressure they're going to bring on mike pence, me and my other fellow reporter said wow this is the first time we've seen this real pressure on pence it stands out and that's why while they're not named i think they could possibly be co-conspirator one and two. howie: pence obviously stood up to the pressure and the next person to speak was donald trump and you happened to be right there. griff jenkins thanks so much for joining us. griff: thanks, howie. howie: i love griff was there doing his job at 6:00 in the
are part of the conspiracy do you see or hear any pressure on all or some of these people to make a deal, to get a more lenient sentence? griff: an enormous amount of pressure. i'm not a lawyer but covered a lot of cases. it's very routine that the prosecution doesn't same the co-conspirator in hopes they know who they are and then they contact them and say how, do you want to testify and then become part of it. that's standard thing that we see a lot, so it is very likely that some of these co-conspirators that we believe we know who they are, may be given an opportunity to cooperate in the prosecution of trump and then there's people that are not on the list of the co-conspirators we think we know who might also be cooperating, so a lot of things in play here. howie: according to the indictment, on the morning of january 6, co-conspirator joined co-conspirator two and told the crowd that mike pence said no, no, no, should block the electoral results. do you know who those two are?
won the election. i've heard everything he's had to say for years. he still says he won that election. howie: yes he does. >> that has to do with the efforts he took. we're not painting over the things he did that were bad but when you read that indictment it's a lot of he said , he tweeted. it's word-based and i don't think it's wrong to be concerned about criminalizing political expression that was bad, that he could have been punished for by voters for and next time could be too. they impeached him over it but is it a criminal conspiracy? i think it's going to be a little bit harder to prove than they say so. howie: i certainly agree on harder to prove. laura, the media are loving this indictment because it matches what they have been reporting the last two and a half years but having a hard time understanding how, in light of these and other charges, donald trump is running neck and neck with joe biden. >> well, that's clearly because the information has yet to sink in. the indictment was released -- howie: yet to sink in? we've been covering it 25 hours a day. >> well, and also, i would say
and you know if you're a republican primary voter you should weigh that but when i hear from people, when i see the response, he's still a beloved figure. he's still the front of the pack and i don't think these indictments, again, just the raw political calculus, i don't think it's changing anything. in fact i think it's making him more likely he will be the nominee. >> howie: trump says in some of his all caps postings that the footage was not deleted and in fact was turned over to the doj. i want to congratulate you, you haven't brought up hillary clinton but democrats defended her for her private state department server which was an awful idea, and trump attacked her for 33,000 deleted e-mails, so is it a stand by your tribe no matter what and heck with any appearance of hypocrisy? >> lock her up? i mean, you know? >> democrats defended her republicans are defending -- >> i don't even see it's analagus in my mind because in one case, the government intervened and reviewed it and said they didn't see that there was a crime there