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of his base intact and made it difficult for his opponents to get a foothold. we have to wait and see what happens in iowa and new hampshire. he thinks he won both elections that he was in, including the one he claims falsely was fraudulent. he's doubling down, tripling down and surrounding himself with people who are in for it and letting the others fall away. so far it keeps him at the top of the polls. we'll see how long that lasts. >> kimberly, you referred to people who may not be trump supporters, but have a view of the court proceedings as a blur or whether it's real or whether it's politics as usual. the counterpoint to that is not only whether or not there are guilty verdicts, defendant trump is presumed innocent, but what we're learning along the way. we learned that trump's lawyer
work on me. the people in the crowd were laughing. he was joking with the hosts who were not pressing him harshly. the people who see this trump might hear the very accurate alarm that many of us have, talking about his threats to the country and say, well, that guy is a good performer. he doesn't seem that alarming to me. that's the big challenge for the biden campaign and those of us on the prodemocracy side who see the truth about trump is to educate people in the ten months ahead. >> kimberly? >> i think that's exactly right. ari, i'm concerned when i hear voters, even voters who say they won't vote for trump, republicans who believe that the court cases against him are nonsense, are political, are somehow in themselves anti-democratic moves by
that's a key swing group. can joe biden win over 20% of nikki haley voters? that might be determining and i think trump was trying to reach that voter last night with trumpy aside mixed in there and some crazy comments because, of course, he's donald trump. he was actively trying to reach that voter. >> kimberly? >> yeah, i think that is right. i don't know that donald trump is such a political tactician that he's thinking about peeling off 10% here and 20% there. i think he's so used to doing what he has been doing for six years and having it work out the first time, not work the second, but he denied it didn't work out the second time. he's so fueled by personal grievance and so far that's been -- that has kept the core
arguments to certain groups, that that's used against him with voters. >> kimberly, warning someone of a potential crime, let alone murder or assassination, doesn't cover you. if he were elected, they would be in many forums saying, we said this was part of the new plan. we talked about it and we've diluted and degenerated public accountability where people say, oh, that's old news, whatever it might be. i want to play an extended set of remarks by a democratic senator because there has to be room and capacity for outrage when things are outrageous. take a listen. >> trump's lawyers said something this week
>> kimberly? >> i would call this a spaghetti argument. you throw whatever argument you can at the judge and hope one sticks when you know your case is bad. here the stakes are so high that i can't treat it so lightly. i was chilled during this exchange in the same way. that's why as i stated in my column in the boston globe this is a legal loser but americans ignore it to their own peril. you ask how can we convince people this is important? i have a fear that people understand the stakes already and feel like i'm shouting into the abyss. who people listen to are people
nikki haley behind him ramaswamy in single digits as well as chris christie. tyler how do you see it. >> i think it's the big test as kimberly said for ron desantis. he put a lot of his campaign energy into a strong performance here. but it's also a test for donald trump as trump has projected immense confidence heading into this first contest backed up by polling, does his ground operation follow up with that turnout? does he get the sort of massive victory that he is expected to as polling suggests, and what does that do to the other candidates. obviously new hampshire is more of a test for nikki haley with a strong polling performance there thus far but for trump, is this the step to put in, you know, this sort of invinceability argument that he's made that he is by far the best candidate to run away with the nomination. >> mike: matthew, how do you see iowa? >> well, i think all the candidates have different
that's the system that we have. it can be confusing, but it is important for us to explain it, so that voters don't lose faith in what is happening, particularly around this very, very important election. >> okay, so that is the system as kimberly so beautifully lays out for us a there is the political reality that you couple with that legal reality. last month, don't know if you remember this, right after the colorado decision, david frum had this piece and wrote the colorado court invited the u.s. system away from disaster back to normal politics. the interesting thing is that it does not seem that republicans want that off ramp. >> no. and actually the piece also presumed the republican party is a normal political party. i would disagree with that assumption. i think it is really important for us to understand historical
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