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is a lot of positive things to take away from this. and part of what i think has happened here, alicia, there have been discussions about threats to democracy for years. particularly since trump came on the scene in 2016 and had so little regard for democrat norms. what was so important about the dobbs decision is that it clarified for people just what that could mean in practice. a fundamental right was taken away from half of the american people, and they didn't like it. so all of the sudden the arguments about democracy and the need to defend democracy, they were no longer academic. it got to the most personal foundational issues for a lot of voters. so i think that combination of the concern about democracy and the concern with this right being taken away, that is what has turbocharged the electorate. and look, this is staring us in the face. there is no way the democrats should have performed as well as they did in the last election based on every historical barometer. the main thing that was different in that election was the dobbs decision and the sense

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spirit him away someplace. so he was righteous on january 6th. >> there were a lot of people who were righteous on january 6th. >> that's true. i don't understand if you put country over party and the constitution over victory why you wouldn't continuecase. you'd have to ask him why are you supporting donald trump after you basically saw that he was committing fraud against the american public and trying to overturn the election? that should be disqualifying, i think. >> he told you, it's that unwavering determination and deep vision for america that i am still waiting to see. here is more of what kellogg had to say about mike pence in his endorsement of trump. "while i respect his service to our nation, i must express my disappointment in his recent actions regarding president trump. it is not the decisive leadership that we have seen from president trump where president trump is bold and unafraid to challenge the status quo, pence has often chosen the passive route, avoiding confrontation."

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raise the threshold for ballot initiatives to pass from the simple majority to 60% was defeated by 57% to 43. and the turnout, especially for an off election in the middle of summer, well, it was huge. almost twice as many people voted on then capped ballots in the statewide primaries last year. joining our conversation, democratic congressman chantel brown. how are you feeling about last night's victory? >> i am feeling just like she was. i am super excited. i do want to start off by thanking you for having me and thanking the voters and the volunteers of ohio for showing up. clearly the live they were fed up and fired up. and as a result, they showed up and showed out. this issue 1 referendum was a message to the rest of the country. as i said before, ohio has been a barometer, a litmus test, if you will, for the rest of the country, especially when it comes to politics.

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in ohio where we had over three million people, more than who showed up during our 2014 gubernatorial election. so this is an issue that people are certainly enthusiastic about and certainly are willing to pay attention and show up, despite the suppressive manufactured election efforts to try to intentionally silence the voice of the voters. >> so you have voters across this country in a number of states moving in one direction. you've got the gop base moving in another. "the washington post" reporting that's a base that is beginning to coalesce behind a federal ban. quote, the republican party's quest to restrict abortion rights a the state level continues to run into roadblocks. meanwhile, the gop base appears to be warming to an alternative course. restricting abortion at the federal level. cnn poll conducted after roe was overturned. republican voters who approved the supreme court's decision and overwhelmingly 83% to 16%, the politicians, quote, shall leave decision on abortion

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to jove turn the election. >> this is an e-mail that i got from keith on january 6th and the evening of january 6th in which he said the president is up in the residence, i recommend you stay up on the hill and finish the electoral college issue tonight. i responded that's our plan. he said that's not a good plan, that's great plan. >> he knew. i don't know whether you call this hypocrisy, cowardice, self-preservation to choose to endorse trump despite all of those receipts. >> it was also reported at the time that kellogg told pence to stay in place, not to leave the capitol and he argued with the secret service because he thought they were going to

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ratification on january 6th. i think one of the things that this twitter stuff will do is it will foment more of the people defending trump saying that this is a first amendment free speech violation. it's not at all. jack smith did not indict trump for any violation of the first amendment. he indicted him for defrauding the american public. >> none of these things are legal arguments. they're meant to be political argument for his base to repeat over and over, this argument of the first amendment. that was one piece. katie, walk us through what your piece from the "times" obtained. >> the unindicted co-conspirator number 5 is one of the several people that he had around him telling him legal strategies to undo the results of the election, testing courts around the country where they did in fact take many cases to court and they lost again and again and again and then after those

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justice department only in december of 2020, a very odd time to join the justice department there's just an election that trump has lost. people will be leaving but he joined at that time. he was the glue between john eastman and jeffrey clarke, this official at the justice department who almost became the acting attorney general. so he was the one who was the architect of all of this, feeding the eastman theory into the justice department to sort of land launder it. you should never look at evidence in a vacuum because there is a lot of context to look at around it but this explains what the fake elector scheme was all about, it was about creating enough chaos to give cover for delay so donald trump could continue to throw sand in the gears of this

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election. >> and understanding this, dozens of people involved, campaign officials, lawyers, what does jack smith allege about trump's involvement himself? >> that donald trump knew that this scheme was wrong and false and predicated on the idea that there was election fraud and he had been told again and again by justice department officials by lawyers in the office of legal counsel and by others who were considered legitimate voices that he had actually loss. he wanted these plans to go forward knowing that in fact he had lost the election. and that is the crux of the justice department's argument, that donald trump, he can speak freely and he can say that he believes certain things but if he's been told again and again that things are wrong and what he's doing is stealing an election, that that speech does not protect that activity. >> there's a remarkable twist for my fellow nerds is he

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biden of electoral votes and/or add to trump's column. prosecutors allege that the memo was a critical moment in the plot to overturn the election, the moment when a concrete plan to derail president joe biden's victory came into focus, hinging on january 6th. the fraudulent elector memo suggested that the dedefendant's electors contested states arizona, georgia, michigan, nevada, pennsylvania and wisconsin. on january 6th the vice president should open and count the fraudulent votes setting up a fake controversy that would derail the proper certificate certification as president-elect. with me at the table, former top

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today given the fact we're about to go into a hearing where a judge in the january 6th case is going to rule whether or not a standard protective order should be placed around the information that donald trump is able to see and receive and how he's able to use it. >> the timing on that not lost on any of us. >> yeah. the twitter files that the justice department wants to retrieve clearly relate to that time period right around the election. all of those materials could be relevant. it's fairly typical for prosecutors to obtain social media from the platforms like twitter, like facebook and others. i think the only reason this is getting so much attention is they resisted in this case and it had to go to the appeals court to get timely compliance. but clearly there is evidence here that is important to jack smith and the investigators. so i'm sure we'll see pieces of that during the trial. >> barbara, help us understand what you think that evidence might be. because to state the obvious,

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