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and i don't think that it will lead us to anywhere. the fact that vivian was killed, does it help now that we kill 1,000 vivians in gaza? does it help to anyone? one of the most recurrent messages in your columns in haaretz since october 7th and since the israeli military operation was launched has been this increased alarm you seem to feel at the dehumanisation of palestinians by the mass of israelis, and you seem to see a total lack of empathy. but don't you exaggerate when you say, as you've said recently, that israel, quote, "is going mad. "mccarthyism and fascism reign. " you are...you are devaluing what israel is, are you not? no, stephen, because i see the phenomena and i always know how it starts and you never
that we believed in all our lives? and you know what, stephen, i want to ask you another question. we are so furious after the 7th and we change our minds and we are not ready for any empathy or mercy on the people of gaza. now, imagine yourself a palestinian young man in gaza who was born into the siege and who is living under israeli attacks all his life. what does he care about israel? it's not one attack. it's hundreds and thousands of attacks. less brutal, obviously, than the 7th. but if you look at his life, he should be much more hateful to us than we are toward them. so let's put aside all those accounts. there was a horrible thing happening on the 7th, and we have to get up, get back to our values, because those are the only universal moral values i know. i don't know other moral values. i don't know revenge as a value. i don't know hatred as a value.
so he is signing on a bomb and condemning those who criticise it. that's really shameful. could it be that there is something about israel, something about the jewish state which the international community feels moved to act upon right now? i'm just very aware, as indeed are many israelis, that the united states military intervention in iraq cost hundreds of thousands of civilian lives, as far as we know. and we can point to many other military actions in the last 50 years which have cost tens, hundreds of thousands of lives. and yet here we are with the international court ofjustice taking this historic proceeding against the jewish state. does that strike you in some ways as questionable? stephen, israel was always judged on different criteria. we have to admit it, but it goes both ways. it goes for the good
that is why the house of commons should have been recalled today ahead of military action that was taken in order to allow our mps to debate and, yes, to scrutinise the uk government's plans for military action. he went on to discuss his party's aims in this year's general election. sunak is finished. he's done as pm. the tories are done and thank goodness for it. the damage that they have caused to scotland's people is simply unforgivable. this year we can rid ourselves of a tory government that scotland did not vote for. and the snp, as stephen has rightly said, is by far the best placed party to do that.
and for the bad. israel feels and is part of the west. israel is considered the only democracy in the middle east. we don't want to be compared neither to sudan nor to syria, nor to libya. we are something else. and, yes, stephen, there is a special sentiment toward thejewish people throughout israel. the story of israel is a very unique one. you cannot compare it to any other country. and still, nothing will make it easierfor me, and for any man of conscience, any person of conscience, what's going on now in gaza. nothing of those things about the special case of israel, the special history of israel, obviously the barbaric attack on the 7th, nothing of this should be forgotten. but by the end of the day, what is happening now in gaza is unforgivable. and all those things are very strong and very powerful, but they don't do anything
me as an israeli. this should more worry me. where are we reaching it? and above all, stephen, the role of the media. i cannot ignore this, because this time the israeli media play the role that i never saw before. i mean, we were always criticising the russian media, covering the war in ukraine. "oh, look how they're covering the war in ukraine. "what a joke." we are much worse because we are doing it voluntarily. you cannot see any image of gaza in israeli tv and israeli newspapers. hardly see an image. israelis are not exposed to anything of the... nothing of the suffer... but... ..of the starvation, of the uprooted people. nothing. this is a democracy, when you don't show the truth? you talked earlier about empathy and putting yourself in other people's shoes. i'm now trying to put myself in your shoes. for you as a commentator who wants to influence opinion, shouldn't you try to reach
welcome to hardtalk. thank you. it's such a pleasure to be back in hardtalk with you, stephen. well, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. let's begin with a very basic fact — you are one of your own israeli government's fiercest critics. you have been for a long time. you've certainly been an arch critic of the israeli military strategy in gaza. given all of that, i just wonder how you feel sitting in tel aviv watching the international court ofjustice consider the case of genocide filed against israel. i was watching it with a lot of sadness, depression and also a sense of shame, i must tell you. you know, my parents came here as refugees, really the ashes of the biggest genocide in history. and here, 80, 90 years later,
their name for what they did on october 7th — "is just the first. "there will be a second, a third, a fourth, "because we have the determination, the resolve "and the capabilities. " you're just saying, "oh, you know what? "we'lljust ignore that. that's just rhetoric. "we won't take that seriously." and, stephen, do you think if we continue now and kill another 20,000 people in gaza and destroy the left, the left of what's left in gaza, then this will not happen? you really think that we can avoid everything and prevent everything and retaliate it? no. there are limits to what we can do by power, by force. and we reached this point and now it's time to try something else. first of all, negotiation about the hostages. and, yes, we are facing a very complicated reality. i don't ever pretend in which in two minutes we will solve everything. but i know one thing. continuing this war will not solve anything, and more and more people realise it. so let's stop it for a while.
and we don't want a bantustan there. we want a viable state. it will never be when those 700,000 settlers are there and there is no—one in israel who will ever be able to evacuate those 700,000 settlers, the most powerful group in israeli politics. soi... two—state solution could be morejust and more implementable, but this train left the station. in a word, and it has to be a word... in a word, and i've known you a long time, have you ever felt more depressed ? no. definitely, no. but, stephen, we cannot finish our show with such a pessimistic vision. let's just remember that many unexpectable things happen in history, and we could not expect them. let's remember an expression which is not mine, that in this part of the world, one should be realistic enough to believe in miracles. so let's believe in miracles. gideon levy, thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk.
he's done as pm. the tories are done and thank goodness for it. the damage that they have caused to scotland's people is simply unforgivable. this year, we can rid ourselves of a tory government that scotland did not vote for. and the snp, as stephen has rightly said, is by far the best placed party to do that. in every tory held seat north of the border, we are the party in second place and today, therefore, i'm setting out that ambition for the snp, to not only win the general election, but let's wipe the tories from scotland's electoral map by winning every single tory seat in the country. humza yousaf, addressing his party a little earlier. rishi sunak has made an unannounced visit to ukraine, where he promised £2.5 billion in new military aid. the prime minister said he wanted to send a strong signal to vladimir putin that the uk remained a strong supporter