Transcripts For CSPAN2 Tonight From Washington 20120505

writer, jamal joseph. i met him a long time ago. he, of coming used to be the chair of columbia university where i went to graduate school, and akaka, had a friend of cinema who is a big company, makes a good movies and i was saying to her one day i am working on this movie of the black panthers and i did all this research and i really wanted to talk to someone, and she said well, i am working with this fabulous screenwriter. she loves the work this man did and she's just like he's just incredible and you should talk to him. i didn't fully understood what see a black panther, did he just hang out with them? it seemed strange and to support things come screenwriter for the hollywood company in the black panther. there was my first movie of jamal. i found him to be this incredibly soft-spoken gentleman and it was in one of the first times i sort of salles and african-american who was working in a hollywood writing a movie and as far more amazing that he actually lived this history that i admire so much and from then on we sort of knew each other and i think that probably something i find most amazing about him and his experience is when i went to him about a year ago and i wanted to get photographs from him to use for our project i remember asking do you have anything that you could lend me and copy and he said i don't have anything when i was a young man, i have to go underground and we dumped everything. that is to me so profound to kind of destroy this young life that he had come and i found it very heartening and in a lot of ways i knew his history that moment has always stuck with me and i really very happy to introduce this amazing writer sure he is, tanya joseph peery [applause] thank you so much, good evening. we want to just acknowledge first of all this a little feel library for this event who has been working hard, and in all of the panthers we don't say former panthers we say pander alumni. the captain, the leader of the philadelphia chapter, are you here, we have to give him a big round of applause. [applause] as we called her from philadelphia but married to the field marshal who travels all around how do we remember how you would take the young panthers because you're always country and feed us and get chicken and fish and regrets but we remember those days. she's going to help with the q&a leader but can i have all of the alum stand, please come all of the panthers better now tonight and let's just give them a round of applause. [applause] i apologize i'm working with a slight -- i found out i have real kidney infection, so i was on tour and then went to l.a. in the seattle and from seattle got really sick in boyda boise idaho and thought i had the flu and the doctor diagnosed it so you'll see me down a little bit. such a conversation we have been having not only about my experiences but how people got involved in the struggle and how you relate to the day and what we could be doing today. not one of you sound like a 60's conspiracy theorist, and i had a nightmare that night when i found out i was struck to a hospital bed and there was a to the could jay edgar hoover. finally got you, jamal. my journey into the black panther party started before i became a panther. i think what i would like to do is read a little passage from the book and then show you how i happened to walk into the pan their office and how that date changed my life. this is chapter three of the book and it's called finding the panther player. i walked into a pander office in brooklyn of september 1968. wait a minute. wait a minute i meant to save the best for last but not until the end of the program. i was saving that but then i started reading it. you didn't mean to do that at the end of the program you wanted people to know that he was in the house and you get his chance during the q&a to talk to german body as well the walked into the pander office in september, 1968, dr. king had been assassinated in april of that year anchor flood in the ghettos of the country. a black power was the greatest today and heating whitey was the hip thing to do. he had been going from being the man. young black students were trading in their field and motown records for the recorded speeches of malcolm x and angry jazz recordings of our net colin. i went to 125th street in harlem that might that dr. king was assassinated and protesters trying to the streets clashing with the cops overturning cars sitting trash can tires and hurtling bricks at businesses. one of the windows was shattered by an airborne trash can. looters ran into the store and started taking clothes, appliances and whatever else they could carry. not everyone looted. in fact, most of the crowd continued to chant the king is dead and a black power but it was enough for them to start swinging clubs and shooting pistols and making arrests. a call from me and threw me against the wall before he could handcuff me and took me in the paddy wagon a group across the street turned to the police car over and the police told me to stay put. i was scared but i wasn't stupid. i took off running in the opposite direction. i blundered with a group of rioters to figure out which way to go to a bigger piece of copps headed towards us and some of them ran into a clothing store there was being looted. i followed. the copps entered the store swinging clubs - trafficking arrests. my heart pounded as i went to the back store leading to an alley to but i gasped for air as i ran down the alley and was stopped by a wooden fence. the cops came into the alley. put your hands up. in my mind i froze, put my hands in the air and turned around to face the cops with tears in my eyes but my body kept hauling ass. i scurried over the top like a scared alley cat. two shots rang out to slipover pick myself off the ground and a scramble out. when i turned out onto the street after running past to other crops that tried to grab me but i jumped away. turning the corner, i almost collided with a group of 20 or so black men in leather coats with effros and a beret is standing on the corner in a military formation. stop running, younger brother, one of the young man with glasses said don't give them an excuse to gun you down. i doubled over trying to catch my breath. i didn't know this man but his voice in the sea of chaos. the two cops run around the corner stopped in their trucks and diesel the militant men. they closed around me. what are you doing. we are exercising our constitutional right to free assembly. making sure no innocent people get killed here tonight. we are chasing looters, the cop reported. no looters year. as you can see the e-rate is a planned community patrol. you have done some of the top asked. i said we were exercising our constitutional rights. the copps took him aside and discipline the group for the moment and walked away. by the time i caught my breath i was speechless. black men standing down boe street home, younger brother, the man with the tinted glasses said, the pigs will looking for any excuse to murder black folks tonight with the that the black man walked on and a student into the subway and headed home. when i entered the apartment, grandma was sitting on the couch watching images of dr. king on tv. tears fell from her eyes. she isn't even ask for my head again. which was unusual since about two hours late getting home. i sat next to her, put my arm around her and we watched tv reports of the assassination and the riots. i came to school the next day. before that i wanted to say a little bit about my adoptive grandmother. i was conceived in cuba, and i woke up with my father and came home and had announced to my grandmother she was pregnant but had broken up with the dhaka and my grandmother pressed a little bit more about who the father was and when she found out that he was a young revolutionary hanging around with the likes of fidel and raul castro they were put on the first plane to new york city, and in cuba she had been a debutante and a graduate student and had gone away to be a doctor but when she showed up in new york city she was a young black woman who couldn't speak english, spoke spanish and spoke french, and then a friend told her about a loving place so she put me there for what she thought would be a temporary state but it wound up being my early childhood and my adolescent home. grand blanc and baltimore took me in when they were quite old, and their parents and their older brothers and sisters had been slaves so i grew up during stories about an america and a south where you didn't look a white person in the body of your black coming down the street. in fact they were on the sidewalk, you got into the gutter if it was raining or muddy, how old you were the sidewalk belonged to them. i heard about the ku klux klan and lynn schenk and about jim crow as first-person reports. they lost relatives to the lynching. with that vote, they were working class people and worked as a domestic paul baltimore worked as a laborer and they joined the naacp, i was an honor student, an enquirer, i have a sense of what was going on with selective school and books of north to sent to the civil rights workers in the self to the community do apologize to rise about 12-years-old so it was just me and noonie so there was a big wanting to come out and then i was enraged and angry about king so the day after this i went to school and one of the fringes on television you would see stokely carmichael and you would see brown and the body and newton and the news described them as the black militants had of course stokely talked about a black power. i want to back up and talk about power because all of my lessons in black history i don't want you to think it was over the dinner table with books spread out. he was a working man and he was a good man and he was with a call in those days a race man so a lot of the lessons would be as simple as we would be watching television the old black-and-white tv come and a tarzan movie would come on the. the mother with a sweeping across the screen during the tarzan yell and she would speak his language and the lines would go [cheering] the alliance would go. the monkeys would go here and he would be looking at that and after about five minutes he would go like what the hell is that. [laughter] tell me how little cracker beebee can fall out of an airplane, boy change the channel. [laughter] it was living history. then i was switching and i remember the first time seen in young harry reasoner and he was giving some editorial i think about the space program and he was going on and on and being a very educated bright young man and he looked at him for about five minutes and said she's a lobbying under and head cracker. change the channel, boy. i could use some of that school in the school yard so when the militants came on a only were they challenging the power structure in a different way that we haven't seen in the movement, they would fly about it. stokely was talking about a black power the fire under a news report we had brown got arrested for possessing a rifle louisiana and they covered him getting out of jail. he's standing on the courthouse steps and he had all the reporters gathered up and said i want you to listen. if you sought my rifle was that wait until you see my atom bomb. so i went to school the next day and announced to my friends and i was a hallway monitor so i sat with a certain group of guys and announced to them, you know when as clear as day that all i am going to be a black militant and one of my friends, my good friends, a jewish kid looks at me and says i don't know if you can announce you are going to be a black militant flecha as a career choice like you're going to be a dr. mackall earlier to what i said no, you watch. then i had to as much proved paul as myself to find the most militant organization and was subjected. believe me i didn't know it was going on. there would be reasons to look at the organization and reject it on the surface level it was like a black muslim. they ran a news report talking about the rising militancy in america and was a story about the black panther party and they ran the footage with panthers led by chairman bobby stormed the state capitol in sacramento, and for folks who don't know, the panthers started patrolling the streets in california forcing one of the aspects of the program i want to get to that later, but that caught the imagination of the community of america because it was legal to carry guns in california and adel lal books were to make it clear that at first to be in the body in helping the other is that in july understood law and the right to bear arms and to bail them out of the had the money and not they were young lawyers and legal volunteers to help get people out. but i'm seeing these black men as guns. when we wrote that law didn't mean black guys with leather coats and berets so they quickly changed and the panthers responded by storming of a hearing in sacramento, and it made national news and seeing the panthers storming the legislature going like they are crazy. they've got guns, they are crazy and it's a powerful light of legislation, the white man ducking under the seat for cover and then the panthers cannot and she reads the statement about the constitutional right to bear arms at the we have to defend ourselves because of police and not defending our communities come occupied communities and then a reporter says in the black panther party please stop the cars coming and he found more guns and communist in the trunk. i said that's crazy. they've got leather coats, guns, they said their communist. i'm joining about one. [laughter] because you're a kid and you want to be. there wasn't a panther office the harlem office had an opening the recipient the office. anybody that knows about the panthers most of our offices and our community centers or anything but secret but we had the secret headquarters and it took awhile to get there. as we were writing off having any real information, the guys are trying to cite each other out because if they thought i jumped off the train they had to go get me, so one leans over to me and he goes you know this is serious right, the panthers are like the mafia once you join there's no getting out. there's no getting out i can't in front of my plays square-mile little shoulders and went i don't care the other one says you know the panthers don't play you have to kill a good to be a painter and i like kill somebody? i get in front of my boy. i don't care. the other says you don't have to kill a white dude to review to kill a white cop and bring his badge and gun. he kissed the wonderful black panther party sign on the outside and we come in the back and i sit down and brothers and sisters have on their leather coats and their jackets and some have on their berets and afros and up front the person was running the meeting with the information lieutenant and he is now this is if you read this it was written october of 1966. if you read this document was written 45 years ago, the thing is that it's brilliant. sadly it could have been written two years ago. we will talk about that in a second because a lot of those plans have not been addressed. but the planes are things like we want freedom and the power to determine the destiny of our community and flem plant in our community, decent housing, nothing about killing a white dude, nothing about bringing in. i had my own internal conversation. i want shall my boys and the brother gets the point number five which is about education. education at teachers is our true history of the true nature in this society. on a kill a white deutsch right now the whole meaning stops and the lieutenant says come here younger brother and i come up and he's sitting behind a wooden desk and reaches into the bottom drawer and my heart is pounding. i thought he's going to get a big gun. and he hands me a stack of books come autobiography of malcolm x and miles said ton. i think will get the cover. this must be a test he's checking me out to see if i care of that my done today. you see on the cover of the but the little jackson five afros and my plans haven't changed yet. not only that but the voice sounded a lot like michael jackson so based on my voice and looked him in the on a and i sit excuse me, brother i thought you were going to our meat. he said excuse me yondah brother, i just did. and as i am walking back i said yondah brothers, let me ask you a question all of these cops in the community murdering people will brutalizing people and gunning them down like dogs all of them are black and people could be killed and for the latest all of these in the community with high prices and rotten meat and is boiled vegetables if all of them are black and people were ripped off and he says these demagogic passive politicians. he said if all of them were black and people exploited and oppressed or white, with that make things correct? this time i answered with my brain instead of my severely bruised adolescent ego and i said no it seems like a would be long and for the first time he smiled and said that's right he said this is a class struggle and not just race but a class struggle for human rights. study those and you will understand what the revolution is about. so i like to tell that story because the notions people have about the black panther party is that the panthers was a violent organization that hated white people and i was disabused of both of those things the very first day. as i was leaving the office, there was a -- next to the posters of malcolm x there was a poster of che guevara and had a quote i would soon come to understand and want to live by in the movement and was taken from the speech at the risk of sounding ridiculous let me say the revolutionary is guided by great feelings of love. and that became clear to me, it made clear those could be my work as the campus community programs breakfast programs, clinics, free programs i want to go all the time and he's like where are you going? >> school. we're you going? basketball practice. beyond on the team. clean your room, the boy, take out the garbage. and finally, grand hall gets tired and she doesn't grandparents or parents will do, and hidden under my bed between the mattress and box springs was all of this panther literature and the team home from school that might call a meeting our community service that might and grandma had the kitchen table stacked with pamphlets and all the literature she had in the middle of the bible and then she had a strategy used to beat me with. the was the mafia also. if you see the art work imagine how this is to a woman who had been born of slaves. and school children from african schoolchildren, books on one hand, that's cool. they are going to school ak-47 on the of their shoulder and grant long said what is this? she said don't you even start. what is this? because i don't know whether i'm going to bless you with this or kill you with this. [laughter] i tried to explain but already at this point we are seeing on the news everyday the panthers were being arrested being the grand sali was i had to go one more time, and with my section leader that was i was sergeant lieutenant, and i said i can't come back any more because grandma like a brainwash uncle tom come and it's almost like she was a super hero leading across into my chest and she said never, ever talk about your grandmother like that could cause she's just loving your the best way she knows how and you needed to be more responsible about all this. .. senior citizens get home and i. you know what, it's okay because i'm struggling for the people. excuse me, let me keep my eyes open over here. and then i say what brother, you know, you're so tired i'm abundance you come by? he made a little dinner. so came to my house to talk to grandma. he came here and had his leather jacket that are taken on the buttons off. he had its eye on. i didn't know we were allowed to wear ties. he said mother baltimore. my mother's name was made baltimore. right away he gets some points because she's another. forgive me, if you say daddy cannot come back to the panther off his eye have to listen to that. we have to listen to that because you are his grandmother. you chime in to do something right now i have to do it. but i know he's not doing everything he is supposed to do. and if you don't mind, whether he can come back or not i'd like to keep an eye on him. if you see his curfew is 10:00 and he does the buck in the house at 945, i will take up the belt buckle and beat his. i'm sitting on the side college what are you doing codecs the signing it to beat me. you're supposed to come to the panther. he said man, i know he could be doing better in school. if you want him to bring you an 85 on the next algebra test and he does a pretty win95, i'll take the size 13 combat boots and give him a swift kick in the. grandma listen. not what she was doing. she said well, my mind was made up. she said that you seem like a nice man and it's hard raising a boy allowed because you don't know his daddy and granddaddy passed away. you keep an eye on him and make sure he does what he supposed to do around the house and church and everything and all that in his daddy and granddaddy passed away. you keep an eye on him and make sure he does what he's supposed to do around the house and church and everything and all that in. so i went back. make to be more conscious of what i have to do to take care of grandma. five weeks later an assault team, would call them a s.w.a.t team today, but their tactical patrol force kicked in grandma store at 4:00 a.m. in the morning. i just turned 16 and it took me me out in handcuffs and chains at what became the panther 21 case. number 21 because, you know, the district attorney in new york, mr. hogan is going to solve his problem a little differently. they were attacking panther offices all around the country in des moines, iowa offices were blown up. here in philadelphia at the office was raided and panthers were made to stand in the cold for hours and hours and of course in chicago fred hampton was murdered in their sleep. but he was going to legally lynch us. sabina bertin represented anyone in the leadership position in the black panther party. although i was the youngest, i was always around a student and hard work and i became head of all the high school catchers so my name came up. forgetting all the leadership. we didn't know what it meant, whether conspiracy case men. moving it to court the bail was set at $100,000. that's a lot of money today. imagine 1969. we were amended and sent to different presents a nice time and the lawyers fought under the rules to find out what the case was about on the heart and souls of the case was made by undercover cops who were part of an elite unit called the boss unit, where a special services. one of the boss unit cops was a man named eugene roberts who is the nation of islam and matt and [chanting] with malcolm and was malcolm x's bodyguard. a few feet away you can go online and see pictures of malcolm a moment after he was shot at getting mouth to mouth resuscitation. batman was chained roberts. malcolm knew his last breath of an undercover cop. use those credentials to join the black panther party and then became a security officer. the other person was my mentor. gabe wasser died came in, knew i had military background, but he always was a crazy panther, the person if we talked about organizing committee building having problem problem that the landlord, showing a tendency to take the money and make repairs and fix the boiler indecent things and hold the money in escrow, he would be like where does the landlord live? @nowhere his mansion is then burn it down. of course the young brothers are like you have, but if that person his aggressive in the meeting, the person who is telling you i know where they get the dynamite come and know what they the guns. he was the informant. so there is a churning at the panther 21 case. that is coming out of prison and then becoming a spokesperson for the panther 21 and thereby one of the youngest spokespersons for the plaque interparty. there was a return to prison for sending down drug dens and drug houses in harlem because the drug epidemic in harlem as it was in philadelphia, chicago was late to drug dealers rack and with impunity. blocks and blocks of linux with wine. it was like an open-air market, abandoned buildings and we were seeing kids 12, 11, 10 years old buying drugs and going off into abandoned elegance and codeine. so we began to shut this drug dealers down by force. and finally there was the longest end, which ways to stay in federal prison, where i meant to note prisoner who gave me some grated i. it was good advice for being a prisoner. he said youngblood, you can serve this here time or you can let this here time serve you. and at that time you could get into the college program or the university of kansas and i dived in, read everything i could to decrease from ku, to the university of kansas. also i found the powers of creative art because i had done some place and been involved in the black arts movement. others came and said he is part of the panthers and things like that. he said yeah you taught karate. people know that. they said he did templates and stuff, take the brother? is that how did they know that? to kind of walk away and let yeah right. did i violate rule clicks so any event i went to the library. there were no black plays. there was one but it is rain hands. raising in the sun. so i wrote a play. did women characters and i went back and said the only play i found was raisin in the sun and the brother said it's cool, just look around the car and will put a dress on them. i wrote a play and we were rehearsing it is, to black prisoners and into the rehearsal comes the leader of the latino crew and his right hand and these are some tough brothers. they were doing life. it killed a a couple of prisoners since they been in jail and they come and sit down and they say since they left their church, what are they here to do? the leader rossville is looking like he's really upset tummy getting madder and madder and after 10 minutes he looks in point and physio- essay, but may speak to you. i know this is a bad idea. he says we heard a rumor about what you're doing and i'm going to tell you something. you listen and you listen good. that guy you're working with, he's not feeling has carried there. -- feeling has character. [laughter] i said when it should come in there. he came in for another black history month play became a black and latino play. but come and comes back two hours later. always as surrounding. white supremacists, bikers, they said you wanted thayer's the black and scots clerics what was he doing, razz? they said what did you do about it? to give me a part. we became the only diverse group, the multicultural group and were able to use the conversations about those things that i've learned 15 years ago when the panther party to talk about class struggle and talk about the fact that oppression in this country as a business, the slavery of africans laze didn't happen just because white folks that might let folks, but because he was an abundant pool of labor. they were indentured servants, but there is the next duration date that time would run out, they would be free. and you have native americans who said no, we live here. so you have this abundant pool of labor and racism that became the mark and strategy for oppression. and from then until now, from the founding fathers, for the first thought being traded on wall street, african slaves in the first portions that were made by insurance companies to ensure the slave trade that would abundant than other companies, we're dealing with depression since business. what happened to malcolm x at the time of race and economics, what happened to dr. king and the black interparty when they set this is about class and economics and all power to the people, we mean power to all folks, white power to power people in the red power to power people. when you have that conversation, the stable attack. the stable price. this table do anything they can to destroy you. so excitement about what is going on today with college campuses in the occupied movement, excitement about, you know, about people taking to the streets, but i like to remind them about what we did. we take it to the streets, but we took it back to the communities. we learned from people like jim and bobby that you have to organize people around her knees and we learned that from the civil rights movement who were in the community always clothing people creating that understanding. fast-forward to the work i've done with impact repertory and empowering young people through the years, but letting them how they are voices heard about what's going on and when you combine an activist and artist would like to call it an archivist. at columbia university were identified for for 14 years. as a young panther out on campus and the students to take over the campus, you know in protest of the war, columbia was a hotbed, columbia was a hotbed and usually the panthers were the clothes to show appeared as the young panther might job is to get the crowd on fire and i would give if columbia university doesn't recognize the united states military is occupying viet on the way the new york city department occupies ireland there trying to occupy this campus, then brothers and sisters you need to do more than take the campus over today. you need to burn the place down. students would share. fast-forward 40 years and am walking towards the class. the statue of alma mater is where where it is said that he or she is a big bronze statue at the center of campus and i hear someone go and there's no students around. under my comics around. i take another step and i look a minute that statue, and the same statue with the north vietnamese flag and spray paint and she says professor of now. i remember when you wanted to burn the place down. who alma mater could speak. who knew she was black. thank you. [applause] >> we are going to keep you to q&a. to help us moderate to q&a as philadelphia sound sultan ahmad who for 23 years of public administration american public policy grade here in philadelphia. he and his wife founded and serves as president of the sultan ahmad community foundation for which he created in honor of his time, who was killed by gunfire when he was 15 years old. there's a 15 euros shabbat 60-yard with a gun owned by a 17-year-old. their way of mourning was of mourning was in the true spirit of the panther party was to fight back on behalf of other young people and create a really dynamic foundation that is doing education and job counseling and lot magnificent work. so please welcome brother sold 10 -- sold to the stage. [applause] >> very go. first brother jamaal, let me ask you one quick question. with all you've been through the panther party, what would you describe -- or how would you describe the impact of all of that? >> canal, the thing that is the most impactful but i think informs what i.t. was this idea of love and service. ask any panther it's a loaded question but in the future if you meet someone in the panther party and by the way they saw that the have said they were panthers are really there, we would've had 100 members. i think i have a manifest 7000 or 10,000 members. but what i do say is look at their eyes when a child is in the room when the authors in the room. if you see real love they are and they weren't in the panther party, maybe they were thayer. there's a big event at columbia university and support and dr. cornell west is on the program and i was on the program. and panthers will tell you that we've are tied to have an enzyme that for the or david date served the people mind, body and all because that is what gets you going. tablet gets you up to 4:00 the morning. don't think because we were panthers then special apartments for us. we were dealing with the rats and roaches and broken lotteries that makes you get up when it's cold, cold, cold. keep in kids that are not your kids. at the end of the day they get it the best and hope the elderly person would dare packages that at 7:00. by the way at 12:00 midnight when you're going to get three or four hours sleep is what makes you get back off that last and stand between a cop who has their gun drawn and the person who puts yourself in harms way because you understand i have not met then, that they are my brother and sister of undying love. when i get calls from prison and i said this earlier. the students have a question for you and one of them pass and said what were you taught to believe above all other things? moosehead love the people, serve the people. >> give a big hand. don't be shy. as brother jamaal talks about 45 years later, the various conditions that still exist in the 10-point platform programmer need to address today. if you have one point that would qualify conditions today they need to be corrected, which one would be used? >> all of them i know that the blanket answer, but the other thing i like to talk to since i grew up in prison, that we had a point where we talked about, that all black men and women are released from federal comments dave and prisons and just because they have not had a fair trial. when massacring up in person, the united states is number three in the amount of people have flocked to behind the soviet union and south africa. about four, 500,000 people now are undisputed number one. 2 million plus people locked up. military-industrial complex, slave wages that is legal. slavery is not legal to luck, not because prisoners makes pure nature, uniforms, fiber-optic cable. black and brown boards, schools that are being examined, you know, people in prison industries with fourth-grade reading scores to determine how many presidents to build. those programs that i told you about that exist when i was in prison don't exist anymore. college education all of those are being cut. we have to create road box and pathways to jail. when you have a statistic that says one in four they graduate from high school by wind up in college but guaranteed to be imprisoned we have work to do. with the young people and aggressive intervention being there not just diamond trading because there's too many people locked up, how many children are prisoners or in that cycle for their grand parents, father and now bad need to be on the ground and train them before they get into the system database program, that's for. if you can't do anything else to get a slice of pizza, hot dog and shoot the hoops that matters. by angela talks about parenting. she said here's another thing about mentoring and parenting. you don't have to be perfect, but please be available. >> once again i want to take proper recognition of the founder of the black panther party, bobby seale. i think i'd be remiss if we didn't give chairman bobby the microphone just to say quick things to the audience. bobby is in town for a speaking engagement at a state tomorrow but he heard about tonight and couldn't miss it. >> yeah, i had to see jamal. they think jamal after all this years ran into each other on the martin downey junior show her some pain. >> film together public enemy. >> louisiana called me up for lupe was beyond words purdy. is that i'm not coming on that show. i came on that show that to stick his finger in my nose. is that i'm going to knock him out. this has nobody come you scared of you, man. so i wound up doing that show three times. you and i were all on the panel. so i got without dementia maul ran into some other people for public enemy and is just good to see this brother here. i believe that this brother. i love all my brothers and sisters, but they're certain ones who really evolved in the context of all the oppression in prison, if better. anyway, power of the people to you guys. >> and an effort to entertain all your questions and getting as many as possible, we would like you do have to make a move like to ask a very specific question in the shortest way possible and then we will ask showalter replies that we can get all the questions accommodated. so we have to make some both sides. just raise your hands. i will acknowledge you. the mic will come to you and you get a chance to ask your question. >> okay jamal, i finished the book and it's an excellent book. i have a loaded question, but it's quick. had they put out autobiographies or do they intend to? >> i know to group is working on a book and fannie has a book -- it's really just the guy that called evolution of a revolutionary, conversation with her, but i think it's eniac is going to do a more extensive memoir. her story is just fantastic. can you tell a quick short story? i can't say enough about the strength of the women in the at the party. the world needs to know that there was a time of the black at the party was run by women because of all that was happening, especially the local chapters with all the brothers being arrested and killed you would walk into an office and they would outnumber the men three to one, four to one. same in iraq nonbattle intact if we were always supposed to have somebody with that spirit we went to breakfast program one morning, probably the young panthers -- didn't matter camus said that his, we were cleaning up and i'm in the front mopping and it's eniac in the back of the church together and this police lieutenant and 25 cops come in with their guns drawn and this guy out of central casting is the police lieutenant. i'm talking about the trenchcoat and the crumpled suit becomes a man looks around. he goes what is this? i said if the food program, community program. he goes what kind of program? advocate all the cops and like i said earlier, i didn't say black panther food program. i said community food program to feed the children in the community. i think he misses it. they can be callous. but the new comes out of the back which is not very tall. as if this guy does not exist, as if these guns are not drawn, stands between me and this policeman and looked up at me and says jamal, don't say another word to him. it was straight that i had my orders. i went back and started mopping and ischemia started cleaning up and you could see he was a little ship. he said is there a problem. she turned right to said yes there is a problem. i don't talk to police officers. never have, never will. turned her back. couldn't figure out to do. the cops with put their guns away and walked out. >> did you ever run across choo are after you got out of leavenworth? >> know, before. last time we were being beaten up and brought in the cops to positively identify snm strapped to a chair and you know the try was overcome a 21 have been committed and i am bloody inmate shot is swollen shut and comes in to make the positive idea and as good take to shield an strapped to a chair leg is indigo's power to the people, jamal. i knew his real name was ralph. i said mishap in them? he says he looked creepier there, guy. i said you know your buddies have been messing with me for the last 20 hours. he says jamal and you hate me and i know you're connected a lot of time. and he says i know you're connected in top shape and come out and hunt me down and kill me, but that's okay because i'm going to be planning to mlb ready. i have to admit until this point in time there is a little hatred, but in that moment confronted with it i turned my face because this is completely swollen shut. i said ralph, you're probably right. i'm going to get a lot of time. and you're definitely right that i'm going to be thinking about a lot of stuff. but i am not going to waste a single solitary sackett thinking about you. >> a lot of what i've read of the sisters to talk about the male chauvinism and sexism. can you address that? and if you have time, address what geronimo pratt talked about at this shooting at ucla that we really need not get into that divide -- and maybe a little mixed up. >> those are two important of questions. let me say i think on the issue of chauvinism in the white panther party a lot of it has to do with where you were and so i can't deny anything a sister had to deal with in the black panther party. but in new york in a lot of places on the east coast in boston where sister ocker was in charge, when erik huggers is up in connecticut and new york, with sister fannie, we didn't have that. you know, the sisters struggle, the sister with call you on it and make the brothers on without we were too busy running around, i've got an assignment for you. hold the baby, change the diaper. everywhere it was, sisters struggled against and introduce this conversation into the black community that we didn't have before about sexism and male chauvinism. but usually when their sisters in the room i like them to identify the question, but i like to say very clearly and i'm proud to say it again tonight. commends the black antiparty time we had a fight clearly, but it was the women of the black panther party who taught me how to be a man. clap back >> question in the back. >> asked how one question to ask you. did the panthers have any spiritual means of knowing traders in the right -- and firmness in the right, did you have any spiritual means to know someone with an informant, like you to check a brother or sister to see if they were an informant? do you know what i'm saying? >> i do know what you're saying. in the early days, there is an open door policy that people kind of joining the black panther party. we would judge people on their prior days. that is the people that do. to be the hard work and what they do. when it became clear, it first became clear this was going on quite frank the with the panther 21 case and in many come in many cases across the country including, you know, cases brought against jim and bobby seale that they are and firmness to plant the evidence and try to get panthers thought that pearlized and chairman bobby's case to give him the electric chair. and it became a harder procedure and then it was very hard to become a panther. we have something called the national committee to combat fascism. you have to be a community worker. it took months if not years to become a panther. you have to be careful if you have the people's movement, community. what level of paranoia and restriction are you going to have versus what you're doing in the community. we always thought the best way to the safe is to be among the people doing good work because that's what it was about. it was in our safety, the safety of the community. >> you had to get your education as many parents i'm sure in i'm sure in the room plus kids are maybe going to college you went to college and they really have to struggle to pay for their college. but is your feeling about continuing offering college to people in prison for free and people who are not imprisoned and had to pay a lot of money? >> to be a better debate if those programs existed. they're cutting them down so much, which is counterintuitive to show that the more education you get in prison, the lower the rate of recidivism than they are being cut by politicians who are like i'm up against all of this comes everyday some people say i'm not tired so i'll get tough on crime. that means that getting tough on poor black folks who the criminal justice system serving them any way. or the conversation is that we usually sell out programmed films and other films so colleges figure out how to get some money. and part 3 of the conversation is it's mandatory that everybody in prison works making 25 cents an hour. the labor was paid for that. all kinds of ways you could say was paid for, but the sad truth is that the programs have been cut and so you're taking that black and brown boys who are starting or growing up in prison and not because they're panthers. they come up to 14, 15 going through the system in coming outcome that may realizing that grandma sat or counselor, but enough is enough, no education, skills and all of that program to help the pros person vacation on programs, they've been cowed. so you're setting up the vicious cycle of young men being tired as with sister alexander cause the new plantation. >> do you think the move that was stronger with women being part of the panther party quite >> could you repeat that? >> do you think was made stronger, the black panther party was made stronger because the women in the movement? >> there's no question that throughout our history from the middle passage to now, to slavery, to other things we've gone through that without the strength of our women that we would not be here. and that is certainly come is certainly evident to me as a young man growing up in the movement and the black panther party. absolutely. >> leave me i was at night and being a student at temple university and citation occur -- i hope i'm pronouncing that right. i like to know the status it is still in prison? >> yeah, the simple answer to yes, she is still exiled and probably will be, given the nature of what has happened, what i talked about as moving toward the right of policy, in south africa nelson mandela became president he truth and reconciliation again, was able to sit down and say things have been on both sides. for several conversations that we can move over. you know, most other industrialized civilized nations in the world have a limited the amount of time their people incarcerated, even if you're talking about people that like cd-r coley, life in prison who has been imprisoned over at 30 years at masada who has been in exile, why can we not have a conversation in terms of black liberation movement and what we need to do to move forward, why people would take that and why those things that happen in half-truth and reconciliation and move forward. >> last two questions of the france. >> good evening. i'm at temple university double major in african-american studies. my intentions are to tell people what maybe they don't want to hear or to hurt you here. do you have any advice for somebody to itself? >> yeah, the passionate about those stories and link up with your class mates and other folks in the community or maybe people don't want to tell similar stories and understand that they will get made if you make them. hollywood is just a bank eleanor people to do all the work and bring it to them. i emerging filmmakers to tell the story. you can tell for a few thousand dollars as a web series and attract money from not use kickstart and all these other things in order to get their stories out there. don't wait for some executive in hollywood who's really scared because they rule by fear. the safety for them at the comic book movies, daring stories come interesting stories you have to make for a demo of the next paranormal at dvd. so kind of be a power to tell those stories. there is a quote that chairman bobby has and i use it in the book. he says when the panthers started, he knew we had the panthers carry shotguns and lawbooks because those were the dynamic weapons of social change. but if the panthers were starting today the still be patrolling the streets, but they would be with video cameras and laptop computers because these are the weapons of change today. >> this is not an easy tory question, but i've had communication with coley on and off and i would to know, is there any plans or could we possibly make plans to address that brother situation and others like him he's been on the parole board 20 years. he just recently received another hit from the parole board of 10 years. and for me, the reason i've read some of the decisions of that parole board and most of the teaching they've made has been on the brothers writing somebody's have to say, which we all know as freedom of speech, even incarcerated your protect it. is that possible we could begin to address these types of situations and bring some of your recognition, other individuals than they are to address and keep some of these brothers and sisters in their situation? >> i'm going to split my time with rather sol 10 quickly. >> connect thank you so much for appearing tonight, brother. i'm really concerned of the youth and black on black crime. i really would like to know what is your suggestion is how we could take the guns out of these young brothers hand and put books in their hands. >> well, this is what i talked about with aggressive venturing come in been in the community with them but folks that respect what he's doing with his foundation work, similar to what i'm doing and kind of coming into those communities, especially folks from communities they respect, spending time with them. fred heston was able to turn young lord king and chicago to be young lord's political party and is doing the same with a lot of other games, getting them to first are pointing guns at each other and putting them down until the right time in order to build community programs. the policy is really important, so we have to work on that level. been in the community, day by day, my commitment to my young people has been strong. i'm within three days a week every day except them onto her all day saturday and that's how you save lives and sparked not only just talking to them but then talking to one another is what makes a true difference. >> as we wrap up this program, i would like to answer part of your question, my brother. recently we had an answer bursary here in this 80, which was the 45th celebration of the black panther party. there's also the coming-out of what is now at the national other night black panther party. we have a website. we have about four key pillars. one is to address prisoners. we've comrades across this country who are still unjustly incarcerated. second is to address the issue of young people and the final way to pass the baton correctly. also a pillar that talks about legacy of the organization and tell her story in this proper way and then we have developed a format where we can begin to engage ourselves once again with issues critical to people in our community and across this country. so i invite everyone to visit the website which is a work in process. for a 1-year-old organization. as jamal said wednesday commend you all the same. so were always panthers. once again i would like all of them to stand out. as cofounder as part of the board of the organization sister hairbands, henry by arthur, america show, there's conrad throughout the city and across this country. right now were represented in about 20 cities and we are moving forward. so we've been long time, so that's why we have to have the use and they are the key to this issue. once again i want to thank you call and get jamal a big hand and invite all of you want to join us upstairs. if you haven't got the book, and as many available upstairs, but you can come right up and get a close-up with jamal and possibly get his autograph and a boat. once again, let's give him and bobby seale another hand. [applause] thank you very much. once again, welcome to philadelphia for those who are here for the first time and son who was in. [inaudible conversations] >> for more information, visit the author's website at jamal joseph.com. >> next, stacy cordery >> now, stacy sub diver counts the lack of j-juliett wardlow, founder of the good guys, the name of the group was eventually change to the girl scouts in this year marks the organization's 100th anniversary. this is 50 minutes. [applause] >> host: hi, everybody. how were we doing? i love to see a sea of green out there. let's see, i'm going to hand these to the woman behind the curtain. magic. i'm going to put my water bottles they are. okay, i'm so excited to be here with you all today and we're coming up on an amazing anniversary, celebration, very exciting. before you begin any to thank the founder president of the first ladies library newsstand and historic sites, mrs. meritocratic and other staff members to help including martha ray glad and linda fraley and the woman behind the curtain air, michelle dalia. to thank you for bringing me here and all the work it takes to bring a speaker. not an inconsiderable task. so every crosscut has their own understanding and the rest of the world have never heard of her. today i want to try to talk a little bit about her life, just to give you an encapsulated biography of her, concentrating on the big topics facing today and then there will be at least one fight them there for crosscut because i know that when i speak to audiences about j-juliett lo to have an explicit difference between those who know nothing about her and those who know a lot about her. so here we go. here we go. here we go. we're not going. here we go, thanks, jeremy. j-juliett gordon miles founded the most important organization in the history of this nation and yet i put this picture and from internet doesn't have a sea of green and no one would be able to identify her. i find that stunning and not so good frankly is a woman's historian. she led a fascinating life. sadness and great joy, she was accenture, intrepid, fun-loving and as it turned out a phenomenal and visionary social reformer. so let's learn about her from the very beginning. this is where she was born. i'm sure many of the adventurer who is sitting and george. 1860, julie accord and i was born just before the civil war began in the sister father a confederate veteran. how am i going backwards? sees the side. he wants beneath the side. they are. this was her father. he was a confederate veteran and he impressed upon his daughter the importance of duty and i think he gave a never say die attitude that comes from serving in the loss caused. her mother was from a founding of chicago and taught her daughter the importance of giving back to the nation, community because so much to her. and this couple she sought a loving and devoted marriage that works. these two are dedicated to one another from the day they met in told the date a guy. she also gained a very clear understanding of the importance of religion to nelly and to willie and this became important to her. juliette gordon low was a devout episcopalian. her religious faith is of extreme importance to her. now j-juliett leno was the child in the back, the tallest one. j-juliett lo was not the oldest daughter, youngest daughter, not the son. she was one of many children born to the court and in gross knew her as crazy daisy. we know lots of stories we tell around the campfire that julie accord was rather strange behavior. i'll just tell you one. she was young and savanna, strangely cold at night at the dana and julie accord was worried about the family cow. because she was a very kindhearted girl, she went to the guest bedroom upstairs and took the blanket off the bad, ran downstairs in the dark, wrapped the cow and the blanket, secure the blanket and went to bed certain the cow would be fine. stuns the next morning to find the blanket stamp all non-and the couch is fine anyways. most of them has to do with how kind she has, but when she gets a little older here, she is 18, i noticed that the crazy daisy stories begin to fade away and what happens i believe as she ages and matures, she comes to have her sent to herself and she does that need have this crazy persona and the family anymore. i think crazy daisy worked for her as a girl because she carved out a niche for herself and her family this way. she was the one who could make things better with a joke, a funny story and i think this is a way to help her family through the hard times and gave her a secure position in the family. when she got older, crazy daisy dropped the way. now when she is older, she meets these two women. j-juliett leno had a good education for a time. her mother was a big fan and so she went to boarding school and actually quite a cosmopolitan existence because of her boarding school experience is up and the east coast. the women on your left there is at the lipid hunter and on the right is mary jo clark. she was friends with these women until the very end. i paid particular attention to her friendship partially as a woman's historian because that is overdue and partially because i wanted to know how important friendships virtually woman who founded in organization based on making new friends and keeping the old. so when i discovered it sees friendships work short merrily important to her, sustaining in fact. this is the home that julie accord love you very well. this is abbey with its home in, rhode island and the grossmont appear quite a bit. now this is abbey. our beloved forests. if you read my book already, you will know this is the one friend named the icicle. she didn't like being called the icicle that she -- this is where the appellation came from. what i discovered about abbey of heart from her friendship is that abbey had a sister named jenny who was soundly daft from scarlet fever at age two and mrs. looked it sad, i will teach my daughter to speak. but she said sign language will be a wall so i will teach her to speak. so against all odds, she cut her how to speak that she is what we would call today mainline. she went to a normal another perfectly happy life. now i wonder what it means to juliette cordes was to have a best friend's sister conquer her deafness and the language of the day. they all knew one another, all hang out together. so juliette low has an example as janney lippitt. what did this mean? i think j-juliett lo had an understanding of what profound deafness was. this is hyde hall and hideouts in cooperstown mayor. it is the home of her other friend, mary gail carter clarke. america was very kind, very gentlewomen, she also came from a family with a very deep vein of depression, perhaps bipolar disorder. it's hard to know. suicidal tendencies reign in this family. her father committed suicide. her sister committed suicide. she had a brother who was suicidal. and so, this was a very difficult, but different kind of disability for the area. j-juliett mabry band of merry and another testimony to the importance of friendship despite odds. well, and this is juliette gordon low's younger sister alice. alice died in 1880, just a little bit after the time that mary's sister died. so here is alice passed away how my terrible tragedy for the family. the first break in the family circle and daisy -- daisy has been a difficult position of having to mother her mother because mrs. gordon has fallen apart. i can imagine what would be like to lose a child and this is gordon was just brokenhearted. she had no time to take care of her other children. the oldest daughter was abroad, so daisy had to mother her mother, take care of her father. there's no one to take care after daisy. enter the young man despite the fact her mother said to her, he worked unsupportive himself was preferable to a man born rich, daisy fell in love with william weld as her father called him comedy idol english name. now william lowe said you are beautiful, charming and you can muster is harassing me, so i think it was in court timing to understand the relationship. i think she really loves him and he truly loved her. they were married and all girl scouts that would have been on day. a couple of god in the carriage admonishing julie at lotusphere. this is complicated by the fact that 23 months earlier, her same here had been treated with a caustic substance called silver nitrate. of the double whammy of the rights which got lodged in her either and became infected. the extreme pain in that era together with the child had followed your infections made juliette low very hard of hearing. howard appearing? she was not profoundly. the hearing went up and down, got better and worse depending on a variety of things. ambient noise, whether, five, humanity, physical health, even emotional halter fence at. so juliette low could hear sometimes, some things. other days couldn't hear it all. hearing that from bad to worse. it was never good because her other ear was compromised as well. so here she is, young married woman about to enter her husband's will. her husband's will was one of what she referred to later as frothing bubbles. the froth and bubble's world was full of people who were yachtsmen and hunters, big game hunters, went fishing by racehorse is. and this spring by reminding them they were shooting in scotland in the fall. this is juliette at the very top there. these are all kinds of aristocratic and elite friends in england and they included this man, the prince of wales, notorious womanizer had a friend of willey loads. they buy well birdhouse. this is a modern-day picture and have a friend who flew the american flag on the anniversary of gross got been announced what this is. so the couple that lived in the home began to entertain and spend more time on a source says he racehorse is, her horses and also left cars. at this building is where he kept the first automobile in the tiny village. if you look about the story josie heath inscribed his initials in the building he had built for his cars. all right, now there's a problem in the wedding because billy is spending more time away. more and more time with friends. he put a barrier against are going to at least one racetrack and so, really sad i'm going away. i am gone, see you later. j-juliett lo's always daisy. what to juliette low do? she took up metalworking. it's not what every woman would do? she decided to weld and so she learned how to work in battle. i wondered, does she make this? i think there's a good possibility she might have. i spent time trying to see how juliette low, of the class she was learned how to weld metal. then she took up wood carving. i have a hunch how she learned to carboy. so juliette low is trying to be faithful to the early lessons she learned from her father and mother about civic duty and responsibility and giving back, even though her husband forbade it. he said i'd rather have a trophy wife and i don't want you to be traveling nurse cursed with a typhoid worse. so what does she do? well-versed in the new testament decided she would do a good meeting secret. so she befriended a lather. no one else could speak with a lather. she donated time to the poor house and worked with the poor affair. certainly know about what this church and so forth. in 1898 she worked with her mother at a convalescent hospital, helping attar ends -- they were quite better and sad, and i'm too sick to go off and fight from various tropical diseases. so she worked with fairytale soldiers. will he do about this, but at that time it didn't matter too much because at this time, enter an abatement, the other woman. .. experienced in downtown london will. here's mrs bateman. something extraordinary from the time she filed for divorce. scandalous you would get over it if your husband was unfaithful to you should move on with it but she said no management something to me and he was unfaithful i'm going to file for divorce. then he became ill with internal illness and thought i'd better call off the divorce because i can't divorce him when he's lying. then he got better and picked up with a anna bate finnegan and she said the heck with that i'm going to reinstitute the divorce but before that was finalized, he died. here she is in 1905. this is ford you girl scouts that is juliet on the right and an abatement, i have no, i just wanted you to see it. first time anyone has ever seen the wife and mistress side-by-side. i know. i'm not saying it though. all right. so 1905, juliette low florent that he left all the money to his mistress michigan some of the money which she did and was never poor but it was neither a height braking battle of. so, now, what do you do in your mid-40s and you are a widow she could pursue art, it was re-education through her whole life the most difficult as a woman then and now. she could travel. she loved to travel. juliette low be in juliette low mind most places women don't go, she went to india, egypt, she had herself a tiger. her husband said so once he was dead she sought a tiger. she could have taken care of the elderly and of the young in her family. this is her younger sister mabel and their children. it's such a beautiful photograph i just wanted to show you. she could have taken care of her nieces and nephews but the hearing was so bad she said i don't think i could take the lead could take care of the l for your wouldn't hear them when they need me so that is something i shouldn't do. she could get married again. this gentleman asked her to marry him she had many male friends and female friends. he was a member of the british military will and decided not to marry him although they remained friends for a long time. so, she could go back to social work which she did. i don't know how much time she spent, i don't think a lot but she kept her hand in with the working girls club. she could spend time with her friends, which she did. this was a dear friend of hers. the flying in common, he took up flying later in his life and juliette low lager plans. this is a cousin to this man. this is robert powell or coal, and his wife and juliette low on your right. now, she was a war hero, he was famous all over england, and beyond. he was known as a military scout trecker and was famous for messaging. he was sent she was determined she wasn't going to like him because she had other friends in the military who she thought deserved much more praise nine and offered than they have gotten so she listed him in 1910 and sat across the table with him and was determined not to be interested. this lasted until she found herself smitten they had a lot in common. boy scouting and she was fascinated with the trucking and the scouting and the cartographia and the geography, the trouble, the outdoor experiences. she was also very much in tune with the desire to raise better men. they prepared for any future but the most important thing about this boy scout program was that it brought fun to boies. the emphasis she liked and. so she said i will take some of the girls interested in scouting and i will make a true free when they gather in uniform at scouting gathering, the girls were there. this is shocking to people at the time. rolls began to copy their brother's uniform, to make their own uniform. girls in uniform at the boys gathering. shocking. so they said okay. i think the parts of my program will be wonderful for girls so juliette low was friends with agnes and this is how the idea communicated as of yet she spent a lot of time because they had quite a friendship, and intimate friendship. so, juliette low had a home in scotland. she determined she would start with the very poor in scotland so she taught herself how to spend and how to weave so she could teach her girls how to spin and we've. why? because they didn't have a rosy economic future. she said i will teach you how to make handicrafts i will then take to london and sell so that he will have more money and a business as diligent with a better source of eggs. she had a very concrete way to benefit rolls through girl scouting. quite above and beyond all the other aspects that she left. so she took the idea from scotland tour home in london where she found the other troops, one for the urban poor girls and one for the wealthier girls she goes to savannah in 1912 and she's got experience and st troops, urban and rural, poor and wealthy. important to know she didn't just sort of spring out of nowhere in savannah. so this is what everyone knows. we all notice quote in 1912 she said i have something for the girls of savannah and all the world and we are going to start tonight. this is what she said to her cousin when she does her mind she would bring a girl scouting to the united states in 1912. now, this was her organization from the very beginning. it was a one-woman show at the start. this is a 66 there we go. making sure you are still awake. this is a letter of hers and you can see what is this, girl scouts? she imagined at first what it should look like first in her letters. so, her organization begins with her funds comegys uses her money to serve the organization. she wrote the first manual, she designed the badges and the pains including this one. which then she turned into this. she patton didn't it. she was successful enough to erect legal boundaries around her organization and she could do this because she filed for divorce and state cognizant of attorneys and how they worked. she loved the idea of camping. a very early shot of camping. getting girls out into the fresh air was extremely important to them but it also taught girls self-sufficiency, including girls the for stock and dresses and boots with high heels all the days of this call them out and they had to think about mosquitos how much water and how much food could they bring in and said that tends to read this was new to the girls of the time. sports was important to her as well. this was an early basketball tebeau conceive of shocking bloomers. [laughter] juliette low flout sports and we all manner of sports to this is in savannah she directed a curtain across the court so that they wouldn't be -- so the civilians wouldn't be shocked by seeing the girls and bloomers but the curtain does what they always do, they kept people out and also they peaked people's interest. folks wanted to see what was going on so she got a good number of girls from that curtain juliette low was always involved with the girls. here she is milking a cow, but she also set up a national board of directors. her family was involved. her mother was the first board of directors. she had gotten her first live nation from her brother-in-law and one brother was an attorney for the organization and another was an accountant for the organization. she created and oversaw the washington headquarters and moved to washington, d.c. in 1913 and have only a couple hundred girls. she decided she had to have a national headquarters with only a couple hundred girls. i love that. she oversaw all the publicity as well. she's also the one who made the first initiative to the united states first ladies. she copied the boy scouts. they had a national on our very presence. juliette low loved that idea. so, she campaigned tirelessly for more girls, trucks, leaders, training, camps. this was a -- she oversaw every part of it. she cared about every detail. she was involved in every aspect. it began because of juliette low, it grew because of spiegel. family member by family member, friend by friend, she was always involved. a world war i is the making of a girl scouting. where does one begin in europe and she has a foot in both countries. as she observed how the girl scouts, they were called guides in england, how they participated in the war effort, and stifel's vision was to see that american girls wanted to be taken seriously and also to participate in this important national crisis so she left them unpreparedness. in the beginning there were 4,000 girl scouts. by the end of the first world war there were 41,000 girls stultz dressel, a girl scouting drew tremendously because she understood the girls wanted to be taken seriously, to be useful to this, and to be involved. a girl scouts in the united states saw nearly $10 million of liberty bonds. that is what they are doing here. the collected scrap metal to contribute to the war effort. new troops during the emergency first aid, health care to read the domestic focus of girl scouting continued. juliette low from the very beginning said girl scouting is the place of equal emphasis on domestic training for girls that will be mothers and career training for girls that need to have another path. she herself understood from her own experience in the plan and prepare to be a wife and another but it doesn't always were killed. so girls during world war i learned how to feed their families and how to care for their home and take care of the elderly and as they did so they also learned a signal until cartography, sanitation, morse code. they planted a victory gardens and they learned how to can and preserved fruits and vegetables to free up food for the soldiers. they needed for soldiers and made candles and scrapbooks for them and later they were to the veterans and so grow scouting was demint on popular during world war i because americans saw the girls contribute, and every time the girl scouts did something important and good they did it in uniform. a very, very visible. now, the war ends. 1920, she makes one of the hardest decisions she has to make and that is she steps down from her own organization. i submit to you it is a really y ase leader who knows when it is time to step away so she handed over the reins to her goddaughter. this is her daughter, and what she did this to spend her time working on international guiding and girl scouts. juliette low understood how bad world war i had been. 50 million people dead because of this war. friendships shattered, family is broken, and she said one way to make sure we never have a war that is this devastating again is to help girls in all countries know about each other. so international friendship through the girl scouts would be a way to make sure the war never happened again because if you are in venezuela and you know all about the life of a girl in canada and you are in canada and know all about the life of a girl and hungary how can we go to war? now, aside, 1920's america extremely isolationist iraq. americans were ready to walk away from europe in that horrible war. notte juliette low. she said we have to be engaged with europe. we must be involved. it's the only way to avoid war. welcome in the 1923, she developed breast cancer. i discovered some interesting that she had during her life. she never met anything new that she didn't like. she loves technology, anything and she loved. treatment called the retial cure but she had it and they put you in a room the size of a shower and dave demon radium. so i'm not saying that it caused the breast cancer but i'm saying she had several tours in her life. in 1927, she died. she hadn't slowed down from the breast cancer at all. she continued to travel to the end of spreading the importance of friendship, education, preparedness self-sufficiency command of all was in savannah georgia that she died and the last thing that she did was to write a letter to a friend. she was one of the many lucky people her brother said, because she died having realized her dream. juliette low saw her organization, the girl scouts of the united states of america come to fruition, spread across the nation, spread around the world. she's all material changes in the lives of girls and women as a result of this program she began. and like every good ceo, she left her organization in top shape when she died. they had a recognizable brand, they had a large number of trained leaders, splendid course for the leaders, there were the board of directors. it was financially sound. so, she was a very content woman at the end of her death. she knew she was going to die at the end of her life. she knew she was going to dhaka and her life work was in front of her. she had been celebrated by her home state of georgia, she'd been celebrated by a girl scouts of one of the world for her accomplishments. now, what's your legacy? you are. all of you who are wearing green or brown to all of you are her legacy. 50 million american women and girls in the hundred years' that again. her legacy is every one of you. hillary rodham clinton, and landers, gloria steinem, mariah carey, we could go on for days this way. debbie reynolds, my grandmother, my mother, me. we are all a legacy. here we are looking back 100 years, which is quite fitting. not a lot of organizations me get to 100 years. 100 years is truly worthy of celebration. we are looking back at this remarkable woman whose life choices and stories went into the making of this organization that means so much to so many people and what i find amazing is i know if we could bring her out right now she lives in the past, let's look at the future, but to get the girls among us, the future of girl scouting. thank you very much for your time. [applause] the best part of every new program is the questions. so let's hear the questions. >> first i want to thank you for doing this. i was very impressed when you showed the picture it really struck home that girl scouts know who she is and other people don't. thank you very much. where did you get all the pictures? they are wonderful. >> the pictures of juliette low are scattered. the library of congress has many, but the girl scouts of the u.s.a. have most of them, so some are in the national historic preservation center that is the girl scout archive in new york city and the wonderful extraordinary women at the juliette low birthplace national site has been more generous than i had a right to expect. in the historical society and a couple of those were from friends in that brawny circle and then the photos were taken from a friend clive. >> i want to think you also. it's touching for me to hear you speak and i'm second-generation girl scout. my daughter and my knees are third generation and my mother was my leader and i am their leader, it's wonderful. my question as this week we celebrated the national international women's day and i wonder how we can spread the grout. we have a month devoted to african-american culture and one day for women and most people didn't even know that was here. as girl scouts and as a woman historian can make any suggestions for us to make that day more noticeable to people. >> marches women's history month, so we have the whole month. so we've done this, and your girls are learning a whole lot more about women than their grandmothers averted. that's for sure so we do know about people like sojourner truth and jane addams. but what we don't know is juliette low, and she really did create the most important reservation for girls and women in the history of the country. she's not in the history books from she's not in the textbooks or anywhere. so, what can we do about that? >> i wrote a book. [laughter] telling the story to other people as part of it. you have the project city for school teach your classmates who don't go to the girl scout meetings about juliette low and the rest of us, you know it's just a matter of spreading the word. one of the things you can do is go to amazon. you can write about them, why it's important because people tend to buy books and i don't know how to educate since we have a feature on juliette low although the would be a good idea now. i know what will happen is the next time history books are published her name will be there. >> put her on the spot. >> in the back, michelle thank you for coming and speaking us to us today. really appreciate sharing your knowledge. my question is you talk a lot about the men that we have influenced julia. are there any women that was significant to her and really significant to the kind of inspiring her and her mission. >> here is one connected question to that answer it connects into women history month and the textbook. juliette low as part of the larger progressive era reform movement. progressivism to the beginning of world war i. it tried to cure the problems killed by the last century industrialization, urban and immigration. as a playground of movement, fresh air movement, settlement movement, many reformers involved in trying to make it better. now, juliette low was of this movement i would suppose but not of it. she was not familiar with these women or their work as far as i can tell. she knew jane addams because of a family friend. so, i think this is one of the reasons she's not in the textbook. her life doesn't intersect with these women in the way and the staunch supporter had a generally warm relationship for most of their lives but she had a good role model and tub founder of the children georgia, the red cross founder, she had done many things. so that was part of her biggest influence, and then she was friendly and with agnes commesso she found her biggest circle of friends she had dear friends from among her chief lieutenant. >> of the microphone, how did her deafness work with her not being able to hear certain things that she didn't want to hear and continuing on her vision? >> this is a story that the girl scouts know well. juliette low was unstoppable, completely optimistic but also, she could just not take no for an answer and the way she did it and we have many women say this is that juliette low would stop you and say so good to see you. you are just who i had in mind to go for this and she would tell you and say it won't be much, don't worry but i'm certain that you have the perfect job, a perfect person for the job and the woman would look at her and say i'm sorry. i can't do this. i have all these other obligations and then she would turn her deaf to you and say it's settled, is set for tuesday don't forget to give the girls t. [laughter] what i discovered though is since she was not completely deaf was i don't really know how deaf she was when she turned her year to you. but it was certainly a very good way to spread girl scouting. i would say certainly a good way to get volunteers. the letters in savannah said i hope i get to walk out of church with juliette low because i knew -- [laughter] >> how did they get spread all of the world. >> how the girl scouts spread all round the world? >> that is a great question. degette spread all around the world through many ways. one was women who were girls dolls themselves or troop leaders and truffle and went to other countries, sometimes the military, sometimes with peace organizations. they got spread just through letters. if you really like being in brownies you my friend and your friend in england or in china it might spread that way. so, it was also a very conscious effort on the part of the girls fighting who girl scout leaders to spread girl scouting because juliette low really believed as did the leadership in england that girl scouting could make every girl better come every ethnicity come every religion, every class and every background could be improved by a girl scouting so it's very intentional and they try very hard to make it happen. great questions. >> did she get involved at all in suffrage for women? [inaudible] >> right. juliette gordon low involved in suffrage, the answer is no, she was not. in the papers it is pretty clear that she was herself in favor of women's suffrage, but one of the most critical parts of the girl scouts was that it should be run locally. [inaudible] is the daughter of a state's right democrat, local control, very important. so, she didn't want to impose from of a party line on girl scouts for fear that women in mississippi might not be in suffrage but when in a new york might be. so she didn't want to alienate any of the constituency because she wanted to keep the focus on the girls said she didn't want to put up an agenda from the top. she was also by 1920 when the women were given the vote she just stepped down from the leadership of the organization and so, it wasn't something she wanted to focus on. she was trying to grow real scouts however the wonderful photograph some of you may have seen of the girl's mind and babies while their mothers are off voting. so it wasn't her issue. >> how many girl scouts were in the first girl scout troop? >> how many girls were in the first girl scout troop is a great question, too. the answer is we don't really know. the first girl scout troop was probably started in a savanna orphanage among orphans. not that most have ever learned and the reason is juliette low was a remarkable woman, she truly was. she had many strengths. i would say that bookkeeping, not her forte. there's no logic in it whatsoever. it's difficult to track. what girls, which leader, what troops came into being. so we don't know how many girls. we don't really know where the first troop was so how's that for a long answer? in the far back. >> were the first troops interracial, were they segregated, and when did they become interracial or, you know, cultural and religious mix and stuff like that? >> the first girl scout troops in savannah georgia in the spring of 1912 as far as we can tell were definitely mixed in terms of religious background. a way to think of this is benefiting all girls so she could have as a founder said we are going to have girl scouts only for this type of growth, not this type of girl but she never did that. so, the earliest troops had catholic, there were jewish girls and protestant. the early troops were composed of factory girls, elite, they were kind of middle class. they were girls of all ethnic background. some of the girls were in troops that we might call today next come from together, but juliette gordon low also said if you want to have a truth that's all catholic girls, you can do that. if you want to have a truth that all jewish girls or factory girls coming you can do that. she was not nearly as concerned about the exact configuration as she was of girl scouts and all of girls. now i know from interviews that the first -- the very earliest gross got troops included african-american girls from a segregated definitely come it was 1912 so we are not looking at integrated troops then, and the question about official trips doesn't come up until many years later and that the planned juliette gordon low could have said we are going to have no official trips. she did not say that. she said we will not have an official policy so we will of the women in new jersey to the well-to-do and in ohio do what they want to do it of the women in georgia do they decide to do so i give her full marks for not submitting out and girls of any sort. her mother said you cannot have african-american girl scouts, you can't do it she said mother, absolutely not, not doing it that way. everybody can come in. we should be grateful for you coming here and everybody here has a wonderful opportunity to thank you for having us. [applause] thank you. next michael winters traces the lives of reverend jerry falwell and his influence on the republican party now michael sean winters talks about his biography on the life of jerry falwell. reverend falwell was the child's of gnostic parents to begin his career as a baptist preacher and later founded in the dutch church of liberty university. this is just under an hour. [applause] >> i'm honored to have michael at my right hand. maybe he says i met his right hand. i apologize for starting like that. it's all my fault. i happen to have one of those absolutely wonderful doctors -- i forgot his a wonderful guy that wants to know how you're doing and he loves politics and so i wouldn't change and for the world as a factor that in my sorry we started a few minutes late. when i was called and asked to do this with michael i couldn't resist. michael sean is an extraordinary figure in our conversation. he is a progressive who gets impatient with progressives sometimes about how they talk about and think about religion. he's a catholic who gets impatient with the church sometimes about how they think and talk about politics and he's a christian who believes that christianity is a wealth to play in public life and michael sean is such an independent thinker that i imagine his thinking about five minutes to underline the intellectual rationale behind each of those complement's. i appreciate the comments about how in an odd way it which have such a rise than to have the christian politics. i would like to get to that, but i just want to start with the two basic questions. what is a catholic boy in new england like you do writing about and jerry falwell, what were you to jerry falwell, in the fields i could top that with another question, putting aside your political critique of him, how did you feel about him as a human being at the end of all of your research? how did you put these together? >> first of all, it was suggested to me by a jewish friend from new york. so he approached me and said you know, you wrote this book about catholics and progressives and it was well received. maybe you should do a book about republicans and conservatives. and he said i keep waiting for a biography of jerry falwell to come into my office. and i thought about it for about five seconds and then fly said of course i should be working on that. and in doing the research american way i was grateful for their raw cards not been closed and i went down to lynchburg every week. every day that i was working on this project as somebody that cares very much about the intersection of religion and politics, every day was like waking up in a photographic. these are the issues i care about but it's in the wrong place or reversed. with that said it was fascinating this was a very consequential man, and as you alluded to we are still living largely i think in his shadow and largely living in his shadow, and so as i got involved in at, one of the things some of my historical training is to remember that this was his story, not my story, and when you print or quote something that he said was very offensive, you don't have to say look how offensive that was i didn't offer any criticisms in the book except in the introduction and the epilogue that were not contemporaneous. they are not here to defend criticisms, so it is found in real time as he was living his life and therefore made it in the book but i wasn't interested in talking to people in retrospect looking back 30 years later they don't think that's what history will place itself out. i regret not meeting the incredible capacity for friendship, which extended to people who were not like-minded including ted kennedy who went to liberty to give a talk and had been with the family and had been a few months later in florida and rose kennedy wasn't doing well and the jury came up with rose kennedy and they became friends and jerry jr. went to law school when of the letters of recommendation of senator kennedy. one of the bizarre friendships i think to grow out of this is larry flint and famous lawsuit in the supreme court they have a kind of dog and pony show going, and in addition to the kind of symbiotic relationship that often develops between the ideological opponents, they found out that they enjoy each other, and i think the initial occasion was one of the plane's sudden mechanical difficulty. and i think was leery that said to reverend falwell i will give you a ride in my plane, and then they said subsequently every time he was a los angeles, jerry falwell was always visit larry flint and is moving tribute in the l.a. times. we agreed on nothing but he was my friend, so i you regret not meeting him but i will say one of the things that someone said to me as soon as i shared that i was starting this project they said well, that should be interesting. it's not the most interesting thing. >> i'm going to count on michael. there's been a lot written before your book about how she can to politics in some ways was recruited to politics. one thing i respect about falwell is that he was quite honest in his autobiography that when martin luther king was doing his work in the civil rights movement was doing its work, she was equally opposed to this and christianity, and he eventually just came right out and said yeah, i'm wrong. he didn't pretend that there was no contradiction. could you talk about the recruiting of jerry falwell? because i think there is part of this there was an outside catalyst from the republican party. >> in the political waters starting in the 60's when the teamsters making its way into the sermon, then obviously with roe v wade in 1973 he worked with anita bryant on the miami-dade gay and lesbian referendum which they one and defeated in the civil rights, but it was 1979 that a group of republican operatives, howard phillips went to lynchburg and said we need you to galvanize the base. he was very resistant to do this and he thought that his people were not ready for this and would react badly to him getting politically involved. fundamentalists had a long tradition of the spiritual that of the church, but the church shouldn't be involved in the moral reformation. this was obviously going all the way back to the reformation and the discussion between face but as a direct response fundamentalism in the beginning of the 20th century to the social gospel movement which said the charity is of course incumbent upon christians but justice in society is also a part of the christian vocation, and fundamentalism was formed very much in response to that creed of the social gospel movement, and so, she had held this and was on that basis that he gave the same ministers and marches that happened to dr. king that got politically involved. so, phelps and a victory came armed however to the poll, and the poll showed that the people in the pews at the evangelical and fundamentalist community were chomping at the bit to get politically involved and they felt for a variety of reasons that the kind of shared moral discourse that at least had left them to fly under the cultural radar screen was now being attacked and take it no longer assume that they would be safe in the kind of ghetto and i don't use that in the pejorative term at all, but the institutions that they built, the schools, churches and the universities could no longer protect themselves from the forces of the indian culture said they had to get politically involved if they were going to protect their convention and of course it went over to reshape the entire american culture. >> could you talk about the bob jones case in detail and how that helped to sort of galvanize? it has some relevance to the moment. some of the jones case is after the forming of the majority. what preceded it was an irs decision that segregated schools would maintain their tax-exempt status of the irs would have to do more than simply an anti-discrimination in their charter and the burden of proof would be on the irs and this created a such a groundswell of opposition there was the straw that broke the camel's back and there is obvious relevance of that idea of the government not just arguing about the public policy but going into the religious sphere and saying you have to do this and a lot that. the bob jones case is interesting because it called jerry falwell the most dangerous person in america, and that was very much because he continued to hold to this idea that moral reformation was in the task of the christian church, but that this fundamental doctrine related to the works. >> can you talk about the way in which the religious conservatives and putting falwell often included the people that converted a large community of southern eventual cost to the republican and some wind in fact a lot of the political convergence took place in the mid-1960s a round of the civil-rights law a lot of them already started voting in the goldwater years and a leader. can you talk about this interaction between the sort of race to the south conservatism and evangelical movement. he was equally candid he slid on the idea of whether or not religious folks should be involved in politics and he flipped on segregation and said i was just reading the bible and you sheet to get insight into question his way of reading the bible little more thorough but that isn't how we proceed it. by the time the university was founded it was desegregated, there was no longer part of the issue. but i do think i hope the scholars of southern history will do more on this. it does seem to me that in the 1950's and 60's as jim-crow is being pulled apart is when you see the first explicit ideas about christian nationalism and christian american exhibition of a sum coming to the floor, yet there is a beautiful quote i put in the book by the tocqueville talking about the aristocrats of the regime and how even though the political and other legal situation changed psychologically they had to hold on to the feeling of superiority. and you do see this sense that if it were no longer are going to be racially superior, they had to feel that went elsewhere and with that gives rise to is this piper patriotism and the sense of american exceptional as some that you don't really find in the south previously. shelia ramstad of a given specifically the christian inflection and if you close your eyes and we will game change this weekend, when you close your eyes and listen to governor sarah palin talk about american exceptional was on it is straight from the playbook and i do believe that in some sense that is rooted in this need to feel superior so we can't feel superior because jim crow has gone away we are going to feel superior to the rest of the world because we are americans. southerners were not always too proud to be part of the union. >> let me ask you what seemed a critique is the kind of imposing of the psychological view from the outside on a group of people who do have an authentic fate of some kind of how would you respond? you know where that critique would go. >> i'm in an armchair and i don't like playing the armchair psychologist but it does just seem to me you don't see in the pulpits but also in the political language before that time in this american exceptional wasn't coming out of the evangelical conservative republican charge in the way it was subsequently. you can't prove the negative to say there was no room this is what we are going to do. but i do think it kind of develops in the southern pulpit in a way just had not previously estimate of one to ask about fundamentalism that you write in a lovely way in some considerable respect to it i can't resist how do you think a follower member of his church would like your book? what reaction? >> i will they would understand why do think, you know, you develop a certain intimacy with your topic working on a project like this and become somewhat sympathetic. but again i think my job as a historian was not to put myself into the narrative. but i think it's fair. i don't go out of my way to criticize him anymore than i do to criticize some of his critics. and if someone for whom i had the greatest respect. his worst moment in public life was i think is very attacks on jerry falwell and church-state and it wasn't church/state and it was religion and society and somebody that was educated should have known the difference. and i think there were more intelligent criticisms, there was certainly the dogmatism of the left and secular circles in the book you get so i hoped i would find it fair. but certainly again it was his story. i tried to just tell it without putting too much -- i'm not going to pull him and for not being a catholic although i wish everyone became a catholic. but -- connect let me read a little bit from mean what you wrote about fundamentalism on the inside as, separately, a unit and everything falls neatly into place is a certainty and clarity of the fundamentalism. all the answers to all of life's questions are found in the bible if you know where to look. and then i'm skipping some material. fundamentalism is forceful but blunt. it is morally rigorous but not intellectually curious. fundamentals and is accessible, not just for us. fundamentalism could form easily to parts of the culture that is profoundly counter cultural and other parts. i feel like i am giving an exam on the sats. in 750 words -- [laughter] elaborate. >> i could use the words and switch them to describe the gop primary debate today i think it's important to understand he didn't bring any kind of religion into the public square he brought fundamentalism and was a response to the social gospel movement but also very much a response to the use of the historical method for understanding the bible in terms of the context in which it was written and things like this. there's a great line of billy sunday early 20th century that said if the word of god says one thing and of the fellowship says something else, then the hell with scholarship. obviously that world view is into very useful for a political system built on dialogue built into the public square i would argue it's interesting is not just concerned about abortion which he certainly did, but to my mind it was a more important and fundamental thing he did as republicans now tend to view all issues in terms of this kind of absolute fundamentalist view. i don't want to opine for the days democrats could sit down with the benefactors and fight over the minimum wage but for them it was about interest to read so grover norquist about ideologies and if you disagree you are not just along or have a different interest or different perspectives come you are a heretic, you're a republican name only and you just don't see that attitude before full well, and again, to me it's not just in terms of the social issue it's that that now extends to the republican view and if you look at especially in the early debate it was a series of you are not as orthodox as i am on israel and immigration, on tax policy, you know, on the affordable care act and this is his contribution to the republican party and in that will shape it more than ronald reagan who wasn't about cutting the deal with tip o'neill who wasn't in his personal life quite tolerant and let it be known he was quite tolerant. and i do think today's republican party is much more and heir to fall well than ronald reagan coming and it's rooted in that fundamentalist wind view. >> that's an interesting notion that the parties can replace national conventions of the congregation. [laughter] >> just talked about his religious faith, how he came to read and how you came to understand it. especially as someone who couldn't talk to him directly about. >> she was raised his father was at bostick and a.m. alcoholic and a bootlegger and a very successful businessman, and his mother -- his mother was a valid but was clearly the junior partner in the marriage. he was not raised to go to church, and then when he got to college he attended a local college one day he was talking to the members not a nefarious gang but a group of fellows that he hung out with, and he said i hear that there's -- i want to hear some preaching in this town. it's like i hear when my mother is listening and she used to listen to charles who's a california fundamentalist, and they said well we are told over and park avenue about this church they have that kind of preaching at the also have some pretty girls, that was enough for 20-years-old jerry so he went there and converted that light. they had the altar call and he went up and read the prayer of conversion thumb he bought the bible and what a biblical commentary and within six months he's enrolled in a seminary. i don't think there's any doubt that it was an authentic conversion. this man wasn't de charlatan, this isn't a figure. there was nothing you're terrified that you are going to fight a personal scandal but everyone will only focus on that and i don't care -- the care of the public significance, so there was none. there was no scandal. if i could just produce a true christian 90 present would say where is that scandal to this gimmick in the event thank god it wasn't there to read i think that it was very real but it was like his personality. if desired this kind of certainty. there's a great story that i can across the minister in lynchburg that goes to dinner with him and, you know, tries to say well ask him a question about the different accounts of the crucifixion in the bible some she's not and a professor in college talks about that to my satisfaction and that was it. there was no natural and acquisitiveness. and i do think that one of those he portrayed in the fundamentalism more broadly is that they do end up using it as a text that they get their ideas and look so when he flips on segregation and political involvement, he just starts sliding other texts. there's not a lot of debt to the scholarship, and i think the funniest thing is fundamentalists say ours is the traditional way. of course of you actually look back at the early church and things like that, they certainly didn't treat the bible as a kind of little, you know, fundamentalist document the way that he would. islamic this is just purely because of something that i care about but it also shows something that you described in the relationship with ted kennedy. my old teacher, one of the great liberal was friendly with all well and spend time down there. what is, i don't want to put all -- i don't want to put larry flint back but they're quite different figures. what is it about him because there are many people like him who would not have that openness in terms of the capacity for friendship, and i'm sure there are many people in his position adam with people like that. what you think created these relationships? >> part of it i think he was to convert everyone. when larry flint's time comes i want to be there and of course he's still living and he's gone, but so i think that was part of that. he reveled being on the public stage and that stage is shared with someone whom he disagreed, she was acutely aware of it and held, for instance, she had a summit with gay evangelicals that was organized and very famous, and he was aware that you could have these symbiotic relationships and that was fund-raising opportunities on both sides and media opportunities on both sides and yet he did not these venomous things would come out of his mouth as soon as the microphone came off, you know, she was back stopping and just evidently by all accounts just a great guy to go have a beer -- falcon he wouldn't have had a beer with a great guy to go have a barbecue with him and he had a capacity for friendship that disarms people, certainly. .. i'm not sure that makes a huge difference, but in america is a huge deal. but the names before 1979, when the moral majority was planned, neither got 13, father driving driving in, and it buried these are not conservatives. and billy graham to his great credit did not get involved in the way he did amazon to issue a southern city for history vital. if they were in an auditorium that requires segregation, he would make the move to location. but the face of the culture is the first from the more kind of traditional server did whine before undeniably becoming the faith of christian -- certainly political involvement in the 1980s. the result of that is first about what he shuts down the moral majority after 10 years, and no one really rises to take his place, that through his universe tee, you now have a nice mauler jerry falwell thought there'd people like tony perkins who was at his university and is putting out lots of accolades for the quarter. but no one really replaced him, the person in the bookers of phil donahue, "nightline." [inaudible] >> they had a friendship can usually get phraseology is. falwell is very suspicious. if there is a professor who is a charismatic at liberty university who was fired for holding prayer meetings. so father was suspicious. he had gone to yell. his father had had a senator. the falwell's were always for the wrong side of the tracks. there was that tension in the relationship. also, falwell's empire was never as successful as the christian brotherhood that robinson started. but they were friends. i think i was telling in 1988 when pat roberts and man, falwell endorsed george h.w. bush and clearly falwell understood establishment and mike establishment republican politics very much. he was going to the oval office the oval office and having his picture taken and even though he opposed bush been chosen as a running mate, he was always very solicited an understanding he had eight years to get them on board before he made his own run and he was successful. >> the worst kind of journalist -- you shouldn't call it journalistic. is that being falwell would be for romney? >> i wouldn't be at all surprised. another one of falwell's contributions is to get evangelicals over the idea that it could not be out with nonbelievers. anyone who is not an analyst. he was fine on francis schaeffer. it would cite the biblical example from the bible that simon helped achieve and carry his cross. the king of persia helps rebuild the second temple. there's always the biblical analysis. i actually think broadly not only relies upon the idea that it's okay to do business with mormons who they consider heterodox and religious matters, but they also think from this organism helps them with evangelical christians because without that seems just a moderate form of governor of massachusetts at health care reform that provides for taxpayer funding of abortion were as good evangelicals know about the mormon church is that is conservative. it is underwritten against proposition 8. i am not sure that it plays the way that current narrative sense that it plays. fundamentalists do it much more complicated than that. >> amateur is much more complicated the way the narrative says if only because they care passionately about the religious beliefs in the republican primary, there's a great till they could vote against. >> evangelical pastors are terrified of legitimacy that would confirm or upon not. >> it may come to play in a general election, as recent for the community to have some mistrust of more men come and bigotry cases. certainly the theological mistrust to vote or had an obama, what they want to do anyway. two last questions really. actually i want to open it at. maybe i'll hold on my last question. i was fascinated by the notion that the tomas baptist church was actually a prototype for what has become the mega-church. now i think it is important for people not to confuse mega-church with right-wing politics because it's not uniform at the case. the mega-church are all politically concerned. but you talk about this model. which is sort of talk about how would that develop? msn web my rick warren? >> i think this true out of the sense they no longer trust the nbn porter. the starter of christian school. they were very horrified in education in the 1960s being introduced in the curriculum. he had already become the ministries to alcoholic of this church. his father died at a young issue of alcoholism. his father had actually shot his brother, who had been an alcoholic and on a truck and used rage. so that was a congregation in his congregation grew he was very attentive and not in a pejorative way about reading their names. so they started a day care center and started a food center for the poor in the town and things like this. very much, although he would not -- i couldn't find any evidence he saw this as a model come in very much in a kind of similar sociological circumstance the ethnic irish urban parish of the century in the face of perceived hostility by the imposter built their own schools, wrote down social service agencies feared obviously the catholic church would've had a a union hall, and part of the mega-church model. but it is this idea that you create a ghetto. i don't mean that in a pejorative sense, but that the temptation to gary mobley got caught inside. it doesn't mean they can't then subsequently go out and flourish in the same way as mario cuomo is a project of the catholic i dove right in his jd from st. john's university in the state teat of the catto allowed him to flourish and they create their own excellence in and produce and top rate scholars. and it's very interested in supports that his university, debate team which played at trees import role in the gop contest this year. so i think there was -- he created as he felt the need to protect themselves, create the mega-church and again followed that. mega-churches about five years ago and i went here to the washington suburbs in germantown or beyond germantown and i was going to keep group meeting and they have the separate week and they your others meeting. it is a real network. i got lost because of the suburb so it's late on road and just everything refers to a tree. and i got a little lost and i was running a little late and there was a shocker. i said i'm looking for this address, 23 encore. he said i've no idea what that was. turns out he was a block and a half away. this person talking didn't know his own neighborhood. once he brought to the house where they were having a team meeting, how they were challenging, social problems, educational, how can we do on this task, this is a community and i think there are large set tours of our society where people have a crying need for that sense of community. there is no equivalent on the left of that. and i think this is some did we misunderstand and get allergic to the idea of the mega-church when maybe we need to start going to some of that. now st. peter's is the mega-church for me, but i dare not necessarily a tear for the politics. as you mentioned, not all of them and the baptist church i should add under jerry's son jonathan is much less explicitly political than it wasn't jerry's day. the politics has gone to jerry junior at the university of the university i don't think we mentioned was the first private institution to bring a lawsuit against the affordable care act. very much in the way the jury produced video denouncing the efforts to reform health care in the clinton administration and using the exact same thing which. socialized medicine and all this. i do think the mega-church models and a problem that we have been kind of modern, you know, plug-in community that people don't really want to build their communities simply on the back of text messages and e-mails. they want to get together once a week with people similarly situated and they're doing a very good job of addressing the need. and i don't fault them for that, but i think those are our progressives need to pay attention to the needs and see in ways that union halls or what they were a hundred years ago and i think that's a shame. >> first church of christ community organizer. >> was in many ways. so the hand in the back there. and the lady over on the left. to my left, you're right. >> in terms of social services, how does the mega-church's outreach staff for other than inside with the old knights of columbus model or the parish hall model of roman home cuts that could mean church protestant churches. >> can we do at least a couple at a time. how are you? >> high, adel stand with alternate. my question is, you can't a great deal of credit for changing christianity, but was that really falwell or was it good. phillips, who were not the protestants, you know, phillips came to a very kind of strange and my new site. >> was a deacon in the soviet orthodox. >> yeah, and so my rick identifies this catholic i believe. so i'm wondering -- it seems to me wendy talk about follow-up capacity that way you could turn off the venom. i'm wondering if he wasn't playing a part and if it wasn't these guys strategizing the chain's and fundamentalist and evangelical christianity, were they the minds behind it? >> i don't think there is a significant difference. i think the model is the same although i want to stress they couldn't find any evidence that falwell is looking to the model of the nicer something like that for what he was doing. in fashion to ncr is, it's not an either or. it is about and. why rick helped his team had on phillips on to political realities. he changed the way he spoke. he learned mostly to be aware of and that "nightline"? and i felt on his show clinics or am i in the pulpit of thomas or baptist church. this was before youtube so you could have been interior conversation and the way you can't any longer. but i think what he brought, they couldn't conceivably gone to a different pastor. he dated go to him and i think they went there for a reason, which is they understood first of all he had an intelligent quality, was quick on his feet and had a kind of combative personality and he liked the political fray. critically was thereafter and couldn't because they were not pastors, they needed a pastor to tap into that people in the pews. it is very curious in the early 70s he brings on a computer fundraising firm and this was after he had problems at the fcc and its finances were mass. they look at it and they said you're sitting on a gold mine. he just don't know how to tap into it. but they realized as americans are very skeptical of mail pitches and asking for money that evangelicals would open the check out right away as if it was an incredible trace the people in the pews did put in their pastors. so why rick needed him. tahini pyrex worked for political things? he developed it quickly. for instance you have this in the in the first six, reagan makes the economic agenda, not the social agenda issue and falwell was immediately on board to face the nation and says we've got to fix this economics at first. the only time he broke with him in the first six months was over the cell of a west and the saudi arabia government and that is again telling of his legacy in today's primary at the israeli government was the weather. cuomo, to make the point for all his contributions although he himself had been in the pews had anti-semitic attitudes, there's no political oxygen on the right for those anti-semitic attitudes to reach any kind of political expression and that's undeniably existing if you look at christian conservatives and not just in the country, anti-semitism. the irony of courses at the same time as who's exalting the role of israel, he is sworn in as the republicans do today again, that obama is a european socialist. and no one ever asked him, do you know anything about the founding? they were all european socialist. you know, there is this irony, but alas the irony was being totally lost and i was not one of his boys. >> we've got -- let me bring in based on them first. keep in the back of your head what i think is a different version in no way was politics spurred a religion there was religion part of politics? keep that in mind as you listen to these question. is that they are, at dell, by the way quite >> christopher allen, you talk to the 70s how the republicans with falwell and asked them to be a spokesperson. how necessary is it for a moderate liberal to reach out to people of faith in the upcoming years? >> i think he regarded that question as a blessing. >> thank you. my question is some assembler so sort of fit right in. the franciscan action network. my question is, i get very concerned as to save face -- the german faith based organization and social justice issues when our catholic bishops seems to become a wing of the republican party. i'm wondering if 20 years from now will be two folks sitting out there talking about about a road is how the republican party -- how the catholic conference of bishops became a wing of the republican party. an example of that senator sent on a couple of weeks ago made a statement about radical environmental theology not based on christian principles and i'm still waiting for the catholic conference of bishops to issue a response to that, which clearly is way out of whack and they haven't issued any response to that. i know both of you are strong catholics. could you comment, your first cat like how you feel about what is happening in the catholic church and are they becoming just another arm of the republican party? >> a timely and very franciscan question. and i missed your hands the back. >> hi, thomas walter. two quick questions. but with falwell's relationship with really cram like? did he learn anything from billy graham? did he have any relationship with franklin? also, how much impact to the goldwater campaign how fun the european of fiscal conservatism, social conservatives and then rebounding to ideologies on the 64 campaign? >> great question as well. last one. >> university of maryland. find a similar question branching off from the goldwater theme. you mentioned the dove white hegemony on the south has claimed will the sword is shift in southern politics. i note that a lot of the things they organized around in the 70s, sort of the christian right, lgb t. wright, the er tv rates were about the masculine come examination of masculinity and i wonder if you could speak towards attention and up for phyllis schlafly which was the barry goldwater. >> i will just say my answer to your question is my column in the washington post today. the partial answer yucatán more. >> start with the goldwater because i think this is all well is not politically involved. if you're before the minister of marches should not be involved in politics. but what he has already by 1964 developed and again largely in response to the social gospel into a fear is the rationale for the american way, for a free enterprise capitalism and you have this irony that fundamentalist, part of it creation or genesys was in response to germany sending it again at the embracing this kind of social darwinistic ideas we get from grand in their economic views. they date back into it from communism. and very ham-handed early. there's a great moment in 1981 or 82 where he criticized. zero a liter of candidate, people are that what are you talking about? it was enacted to see see the word socialist to assume there is a narrative. today they use ina road to people's criticisms of the affordable care act. his relationship with billy graham -- obviously billy graham is an evangelical but not a fundamentalist. but very different task of mine and graham gets burned by his political involvement with nixon and felt her and really pulled in, but he was never out that she would never mistake fawell for graham. graham did not talk about the political issues the way the falwell did at all, never at any time in his career. to combat duty are seasoned account the question, i will say i think the left is a bad job at reaching out to bishops in my experience to the catholic last, i say that five times a week, but i bet five times a month heavy but to your bishop have you asked for a meeting? in the 1980s, out of nowhere these three franciscan want to give ronald reagan the bread of life. but enough is the bread of life. it's a little statue or some thing. silly couple phone calls are made. reagan goes from one reading or another, studs in the hallway, picture. within a month of her friends this can newspaper, magazine on the ground world has a picture of ronald reagan given the bread of life. try that to the obama white house. try getting religious leaders and see who get a meeting with. we've got to do a much better job on the last of actually reaching out and developing friendships. you know, the catholic bishops are people. you've got to talk to them. make them aware of your concerns. not in an aggressive nasty way, they just been trained to understand where you're coming from. i do think they have this moment between january 10th and february 12, where they felt the wind at their back after the president announced his accommodation even though the president admitted at the time the summer work to be done on that. i think they overreacted and started to overplay their hand. you saw last week honor is basically back peddling on this issue and critically i hope they grasp it and agree the column was great today and i hope they all read it. thanks to rush limbaugh, this issue is never again about religious liberty. this is about how women are treated and they have to understand that if they go forward on this, you know, they don't have the power to frame an issue in this culture, certainly not between now and november in a way that it will work for them. >> let me ask you two final questions and they are really related. you know, people talk about what would jesus do. i can't resist asking you, what was jesus thing followed this? you know, because that is actually all about which you cared. you know, what would he make of falwell? nobody make of this approach and in some sense of all of our argument about politics? was reminded yesterday when one of degrees was foolishness of god is wiser than the wisdom of friends. the other question is, could you do a talk about in a progressive institution people would be inclined to talk about the negative impact of falwell and i'd like you to discuss that. i'd also like you to discuss what if any positive contribution is fawell making so we can on this. >> the first point and this is a theme of my criticism in the introduction as he understood that an american public discourse, you can't really bring bible citation, right? and it goes in the "nightline", it didn't do in terms of winning the argument to say save their improv groups. i actually resist that because i think there is this idea that if you reduce religion to ethics, that gains you access to the public square. he then reduce religion to ethics and participate in secularization. whereas the doctor came stood on the steps of the lincoln memorial he spoke about the creative redemptive power of suffering. suffering is not an ethical value of any ethical schema familiar with. only a few are you choose who recognizes the book of job for a christian who worships the crucified god does the sentence of dr. king make any sense whatsoever. we have the idea that dogma -- does not make is not in negative thing. but i also think that we have this strange notion that.to in the public square necessarily leads to the position and i don't know if that's true. and dr. king's case it was clearly not true. but fawell by reducing to ethics produces this idea into a certain type of the eggs. you see this on the left which the gospel was only about social justice and only about puritanism. from the religion is very much about who god is and how we worship him appropriately. and the others are derivatives. but if you leave the dogma out the door, then the argument has to be about his stand on it own and i don't think christian ethics specifically are meant intended to send around and that is the key. he actually is feeding the beast in trying to defeat. what was the other -- the good thing. already mentioned anti-semitism in the hunt now political currency on the rink right now. in spite of themselves the falwell lawsuit is a great unanimous supreme court decision we did not intend that we can all celebrate. he did bring this notion that christianity is not about being kind. it's a muscular christianity which you can access much meditation to those of us more on the lefty record as there is true there and reach different political and social pollution from the fact that religion has to be about it, but for a christian and detailed where you're not making a christian argument. what else did he -- i do think that as the basic thing, he enfranchised over 6 billion fellow citizen and i don't think it paulden for democracy to ethics than people who feel cut off from democratic prophecies. we may not like the way they vote in this and other arguments and try to persuade them. why we think they are wrong. but i find the most pernicious political development of last year effort in various states to restrict the franchise and i'm waiting for conservative friends who professes great devotion to stand up and say this is out of balance and i haven't seen it. i do think fawell gets credit for bringing millions of

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