Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20151028

>> yes, it is. >> welcome to "morning joe" -- >> what are you going as. >> me? >> yeah. >> well, i'm still thinking about it. nicole? >> my son's an astronaut so i guess that makes me an astronaut's mother. >> yeah? >> oh, that's good. >> you know what i'm going as, willie? >> what's that? >> a guy who went to dartmouth. >> you went to dartmouth? >> i did go to dartmouth. i did. last week. last week. >> i think it's a bad sign my daughter won't show me her costume. >> oh. that -- you know, your daughter's costume last year had handcuffs. that's all i'm going to say. >> what are you doing for halloween? >> quiet now. >> it has gotten quiet. >> disguntsled mets fan. >> oh, >> okay, willie geist. >> okay, so this is -- so this world series game in a time when baseball seems to be getting less relevant by the year. last night, all of america, my entire twitter feed, i went on it last night. i always do to see the nude pictures of you. >> there were a couple -- >> everybody was talking about the game. i turned it on and it's one of the bizarrest things. it starts out bizarre. something i haven't seen in 50 years of watching baseball, it goes black. >> unbelievable. a couple of hours before the game, the royal's starting picture's father dies. his wife asks that the team not tell him that his father died until he comes out of the game. >> by the way, that never happens, inside the park home run. >> first hitter of the world series inside the park home run. then as you said, joe, in the fourth inning fox's feed goes down. so they put up the screen that says we're having technical difficulties, this is during the world series. >> a holding pattern. >> yeah, it cuts. >> do they play elevator music or what do they do? >> it cuts these poor guys in new york city. one of them is like okay, what are we doing, it was so bizarre. then it happened again. >> you're right. it goes down. >> can i just ask, do they only have one truck and did a cat start chewing on a cord or something? >> what happened was their power went out and their back up generator went out. i don't understand how or why? it's remarkable in the world series for a major network to lose their. >> when something like that happens, it's like the san francisco earthquake. you think something really bad has happened. they switch over to the international feed. eventually the fox announcers go over the mlb booth and take over those guy's feed. in the ninth this is the eighth inning, an error by haasman a gold glove first baseman. in the 14th inning the royals win. all that in one game. the first game of the world series. there's the game winning sack fly right there. >> this was a great game. going to be a great series. i can't wait for the next six games. >> and that sack fly was by the guy who made the error who made the mets join the game. >> unbelievable. >> did i tell you by the way i went to darthman? now i thi-- dartmouth? >> nice sweatshirt. are we doing more candidates? i think we have another one. >> we have another one next week. i can't say who it is. >> donald trmp in a fight for first place after an undisputed lead that happened for six months. ben carson passed trump by four points but within the margin of error. trump is down five points. the pole also showed that the vast majority of primary voters are not firm in their choice. 71% say it's too early to make up their minds. >> if you're looking at this number, nicole, you're happy. we could end up with 78% of the vote. last night trump returned to the hawk eye state for the first time since his pulling. we me how we talk about the joy, trump delivered tough love. >> from the time i announced i've been at the top of the poles, almost at the top, we're doing well. iowa, will you get your numbers up, please. when you get these numbers up, i'm a great christian and i am. i do well with the evangelicals. they left me down a little bit last month. i don't know what i did. by the way, before i forget, whether you get the numbers up, iowa, please? this is ridiculous. what is my competition? in all fairness, what is my competition? do you think these guys, i'm not going to say carson, i'm not going to say rubio who is really way down. i mean, i am second. it's not terrible. but i don't like being second. second is terrible to me. in most poles i'm number one. until iowa came along i said every pole and then iowa, what the hell are you people doing to me? you know. they said why don't you skip iowa. all of the prit cal genius's. a man said would you ever think about skipping iowa and going right to new hampshire? i said i can't do that because i have such an unbeliefable relationship with the people from iowa i think we're going to win. i really do. i believe it. i hate to say it, but the last long number of elections on the republican circuit, the person that won iowa did not get the nomination. i want to take away some of your mustard, you understand that? do me a favor. let me win iowa and then i'm going to win, i'm telling you. i want to tell you. will you, i refuse to say get your asses in gear? i will not say it. i will not say it because i don't want to use anything that's a little bit off. so will you please do me a favor and work with my people and go out on february 1st and vote and give us a victory [ applause ] and if i win iowa, we're going to run the whole table. >> okay. >> if i don't, i'm never going to talk to you again. >> yeah. we were around this table howling at what was going on. this really is the secret to donald trump. everybody's like he's going to be angry. no, that may have been his best speech. >> ever. >> it was hilarious but it showed he's a winner. he wants to be in first place. when he gets knocked down, he's not going to sit and wine about it. >> that was the question with these poles. how's he going to respond? >> it's over. >> can you imagine not just in this cycle but any cycle previous the presidential candidate yelling and basically giving a locker room speech to the iowa voters telling them to get off their rear ends screaming what the hell is wrong with you people? >> challenging the voters. >> you all have made yourself irrelevant nicole, your dad had to love that speech. >> what i love about trump is he takes that third rail. candidates are taught not to either it looks a little self-involved to talk about your own pole numbers. you're not suppose to get up there and sound like dick morris, you're suppose to sound like ronald reagan. he's the master of his own poles and i think that's what people love. people wonder what happens behind the scenes in politics, trump removes all the mystery. >> that for me, as a republican voter, was trump actually at his best. because this is a character test. you're trying to figure out the character of the person for the united states. this is a guy that comes straight at you and they're not going to whisper behind your back and there's nothing, they come right at you. i never heard a speech like that before in iowa. donald trump is there fighting and laughing and snimiling sayi vote for me, you're a loser. it's not a reflection of me, it's a reflection of you. >> all these campaigns, the candidates hit adversity at some point and the question is what do they do? >> what i nound in 93 and 94 with bill clinton, he was passing a lot of things conservatist didn't like. every victory he had, his pole numbers would go up. people love winners. americans love winners. they feel like we've been rancic kicked around for a long time. right there is a winner around that's a guy that's use to winning and a guy that when he gets knocked down, he doesn't start worrying. >> everyone thought he would swoop down and clobber somebody. he knows who his enemies are and who the real concerns in this race are. for him, it's not ben carson. >> it will be interesting to see what happens tonight. >> that's going to be fascinating. >> it will be fascinating. >> it will be interesting to see. >> i actually think that the reason he's losing ground to ben carson is because ben carson is nicer than he is. i saw in the town hall he tried to show a little bit of his niceness. i thought the question more humble is the highlight of the morning for me. i wonder if any of that stuck in his brain? when you stand shoulder to shoulder with someone whose brand is their niceness, i wonder if it rings in? he was berating his voters in iowa. people choosing between carson and trump, today, this week, again poles are going with carson because he is nicer. >> except for this fact. that's a guy having fun with voters, poking voters. there's jeb bush who basically said you suck. that means absolutely nothing because howard screaming those states in the microphone in the room wasn't that loud with the crowd noise. the feed was. but jeb bush says you people don't get it, you're too stupid to realize how great i am and if you don't figure out how great and smart i am pretty soon i'm going home. donald trump is setting there laughing and that's very joyful. he does have a problem with ben carson right now. i will saban carson wins iowa. i don't see ben carson winning any other states. maybe he does. maybe he wins it all. you look at a new pole in north carolina, trump in first place. a new pole out of texas, trump in first place, carson is a close second. new poles all across america, trump in first place. carson close second. here is the most important thing. even else in single digits. everybody else irrelevant and the republican establishment keeps waiting for that hero to rise from the streets. it's not going to happen as long as they're in single digits because they're not going to make money. everybody is going to run out of money soon. ted cruz is in third place in his own state. jeb is in third place in his own state, i think. marco in third or fourth place. they got to get moving or they're out. >> donald trump wins 41%, carson 21% and it falls off. >> is that the cbs? >> that's the cbs new york times pole. when they're asked who do you think can win, donald trump is still ahead. nobody can name a single state marco wins. name a state. you can't. unless lightning strikes. jeb bush 7% in south carolina. he's in second or third place in his home state of florida. why is this important right now in late october? because they've got to raise more money to keep their campaigns going. you can't do that when you're in seventh place. >> you mention the big debate tonight which will be absolutely fascinating. turns out the first battle of the debate began already. they were bickering about green rooms. rightfully so, there's maybe perhaps a discrepancy between who gets the better green room. after a walk through yesterday, the campaigns of governor chris christie and senator ran paul ch complained higher pole candidates are receiving -- donald trump has a spacious room and prush chairs. >> it's the best room you've ever seen in your life. it would chris christie's campaign manager fumed this is ridiculous. we are in a restroom. ran paul's adviser tweeted photos. >> it's a bathroom. >> it's a bathroom. >> numbers are in the toilet. then for senator rubio, quote, check out marco's. they gave him a home theater. carly fiorina, somebody has a gentleman cue si. it appears things worked out last night. a nicer area was fweeted. looks like the cafeteria. >> that's great. they got a radiator too. >> people are so short sided and i know you know this, in the middle of campaigns you know they're over. ran paul is going to be running for president for re-election to senator. it would be good to have a good relationship with a guy you want to win in an extraordinarily important year. >> it's a great thing on a campaign. this is little stuff. i don't think anybody got mad. >> in most poles he acts within marco rubio. >> what is george's green room look like? lindsey graham's? people on the kitty table debate. >> i think somebody doesn't like ran paul. >> we have to go to break. we have so much to get to. did you see kasich yesterday? >> he's an t on fire. >> the number two democrat in the house joins us. plus, congressman jim jordan whose freedom caucus is playing a big role on capitol hill. >> that's a big story. >> and we'll go live to bolder for tonight's republican presidential debate. we'll talk to chuck todd. >> i was glad to see this. paul ryan raised held about how john boehner and the republican leadership should haved another one of these bills down everybody's throats. that's what they need. they need a guy that's going to engage everybody. what we don't need. >> no, we don't need it. >> it's just like, i think we have to see this contract. >> it's going to be over soon at some point but we've got to be polite until then. >> very polite. >> we haven't talked about the arrest, we haven't talked about the rehab. >> the groping. >> we have talked about the groping in the past. we've stopped talking about the groping but it's not to stop. i got to tell you he makes lose uncomfortable. all right, first here's bill karens. >> i love you guys. maybe a little too much. >> all right. let's let this wurch go. a rainy soaking windy day on p tap. we could use the rainfall. for your travels this afternoon, they're not the best. the green schoes you the rain moving from areas of wisconsin back through the ohio valley. a lot of the mid-atlantic to the northeast is where the heavy rains end up. we're looking at the possibility of widespread 1-2 inches. we could see as much as 3 inch s of rain. look at the wind gusts. we could see the winds up to 40 miles an hour. that would bring down small tree limbs. we'll watch a little drainage too. a lot of leaves at their peaks. soaking rains, gusty winds and if you have any interest in the baseball game, windshields in the 40s and dry and clear and on the chilly side. be prepared for a slow ride home later on today with windy conditions and heavy rain. more morning joe when we come back. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. chase for business. well, right now you can get 15 gigs for the price of 10. that's 5 extra gigs for the same price. so five more gigs for the same price? 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(interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. what are your thoughts on him today? >> he's got your vote. >> yeah, big time. >> why wouldn't anybody like that? a guy that came from where he came in errand doing what he's doing and now this is where he's at now. you know what that means? that don't mean he's a bad guy, that means people are tired of what you've been doing. what we've been doing the last to years. let's try something new. hillary or bernie sanders? >> you're saying trump essentially. >> i would. >> 27 past the hour. >> we were just talking about something quickly. it's october and there's something psychological. trump and carson dominating 50% in october. we're four days away from november. we're in november. these guys aren't going to do it. >> right. i think that. >> these guys being the established candidates all in single digits in november. >> and we keep talking about two bracts, two lanes. i wonder when we abandon that. two guys are so dominant that the other bracket doesn't have a chance of elevating someone. it's not a cloud. it's dirt and rocks and republican primary voters are into it. >> when you get into november, four days away, suddenly, there's a, i mean, that's a psychological impact. remember all that b.s.? the establishment is really, really lucky to have iowa moved back or this would be over. >> you've got a new interview with bernie sander's top advisers and in it, you've asked sander's campaign managers he shifted to the left. it makes her a craving hypocrite. that's a bit harsh, don't you think. they were willing to give her more credit than obama did. we'll give her serious consideration. we'll even interview. you go on to say that the sander's campaign is preparing to enter a new phase. this will be more aggressive, hard edged and focussed ond driving home contrast between sander's and clinton. in other words, it will be more negative. >> i don't see sanders going negative. >> there's a balance. they will tell you they have no intention of going negative on her in a personal way related to her e-mails, character issues. they feel as they on every issue that matters he's been consistent and she has not been. so they're going to try to drive these issue contrast in a dramatic way. bernie wouldn't say that he would. he said you know, i hope i won't have to. it doesn't seem like you're saying no. he says i hope i don't have to. we'll see. >> after the past couple of days, it's like how dirty are they going to play? >> that's part of the question. sorry. >> no, you're right. i think they will. you actually heard bernie sanders go farther than he has before. he was on the today show and said i'm pleased to see hillary clinton is coming around to my position to shissues important democrats. i've been doing this my whole life and here she is coming in behind me. >> if he wants to actually win the race, he's going to have to get tougher. he's going to have to say you know what, i didn't stick my finger up in the wind. hillary clinton doesn't know what she believes in. serio seriously, she runs a state department and says that ttp is the greatest thing ever. it's the gold standard and she wheeze ls out of it when she decides she wants to be president of the united states. then she tells us stuff that's not true. i hoped it would get better. no, hillary, you called it the gold standard. he could very easily go after her aggressively and very fairly. >> that's the beginning of this phase last weekend in iowa we were out there and we saw sanders start to do it and been doing it more and more. jay jay, he didn't mention her name and now starting to mention her name. this notion of hillary imputing sexism to sanders about the comment of we don't need more shouting about guns and her turning that into -- zwr why did that do that? >> obviously, it was stupid. it was really stupid. everybody knew he wasn't doing that. why did he do that? >> i have no idea. she benefits in their view. playing the gender card. i don't think it's a smart play for a front runner to be playing the victim card in any situation. i can't explain that calculation. >> i do not know the answer to the question at this moment. i do know that the sanders people are furious about it and furious about the way in which she attacked him on the gun issue. their attitude is he's made two votes questionable on guns and she's trying to get to his left on guns and feels as though her history on a lot of things -- they feel they're provoked in some ways. >> that sexism stuff was ridiculous. the gun issue, if i were hillary clinton, i would be hammering on the gun issue. >> their point is there's other issues in the same vein. >> then they need to hit back. but they shouldn't wine about the gun issue because bernie is out of touch with progressivs. >> hillary. >> those chose hillary up 41 point ins iowa. >> nobody believes that. >> let's go to washington. mike, you got new reporting about former campaign stackers who don't appreciate comparisons to jeb bush's campaign. >> what are they saying? we didn't suck that bad. >> nicole, no offense. >> mike, what do you got? >> we've seen on this show the sharks are circling. can he show a punch and get back on a horse. out on the trail he's been saying wait a minute with these tough stories. look at john mccain in 2008. everyone said his campaign is over. he said i'm going to live off the land and go back to new hampshire to win florida and be the nominee. the problem with that, we'll talk to abunch of florida mccain aids saying those parables only go so far. >> mike. mike. did some of these campaign aids work for marco rubio? the one that said it's bull bla bla? you don't have to reveal your sources. can i tell you where this story came from? i talked to the bush campaign last night. i said how does donald trump say that john mccain was a crud cruddy p.o.w. and not get in any trouble. how does that happen to you? ? what they said this is a moment between two men. john mccain and jeb bush ran into each other and talked about the commonality of being down and out. jeb bush has never claimed that his campaign is running the exact projectures and i think this story is a -- >> i talked to mccain in post 7 while this was happening and mike, you remember it too. it is hard to find any candidate including jeb bush who fell like john mccain did who had massive headquarterers. mccain fell further than jeb fell. i always tell the story. you remember this, mike. my dad, mccain had become such a laughing punch line, even more than jeb bush that i was leaving and my deerly departed dad said to me, joey, you watch that mccain. he's going to come back. i roll my eyes and said whatever dad. you're the only person who thinks that. but mccain came back. >> that's right, joe. and nicole, as you read into the story, you'll see we talk to senator mccain. he says that some of these parallels are fair but nicole, you know this. you get the same e-mail i do. he said at this point it's wishful thinking. it could come but at the moment he faces a very different situation than senator mccain did. >> the question is, does jeb have the fight to come back. you almost get a sense. anybody that knows mccain knows and i say this positively. he's a fortune ri s.o.b. you get the sense mccain liked living off the land. john mccain exactly, mccain in the best sense can lean. does jeb have that? that's the question. >> we'll find out. we don't know that they don't. i think what jeb talks about is not prejudging the outcome. here's the other difference. this is correct. mccain went from being you know, not inevitable but in the top. jeb has never broken out from the single digits. that's a structural point. i've only heard jeb make the comparison in the effort to say it's not over till it's over. the notion to say a lot of these other guys, mike, i know a lot of others on campaigns, i think it's a low blow and i think it's part of the irrelevant clackery. >> we want mike to get the last word here. >> i think that the first jeb bush as the come back kid. nicole is first. >> i'll take it. >> i like that. >> people have said much worse things about me in your favor. i'll take it. >> it seems like a nerve has been struck. we are so happy you came today. thank you, mike. appreciate it. tomorrow's show we're going to be talking to mike huckabee on the heels of the g.o.p. debate. we have more coming from the clacking clackery. i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise. only depend underwear has new confidence core technology for fast absorption and the smooth, comfortable fit of fit-flex™ protection. get a coupon at depend.com and i'm still struggling with my diabetes. i do my best to manage. but it's hard to keep up with it. your body and your diabetes change over time. your treatment plan may too. know your options. once-daily toujeo® is a long-acting insulin from the makers of lantus®. it releases slowly to provide consistent insulin levels for a full 24 hours. toujeo® also provides proven full 24-hour blood sugar control and significant a1c reduction. toujeo® is a long-acting, man-made insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes. it contains 3 times as much insulin in 1 milliliter as standard insulin. don't use toujeo® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar, or if you're allergic to insulin. allergic reaction may occur and may be life threatening. don't reuse needles or share insulin pens, even if the needle has been changed. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which can be serious and life threatening. it may cause shaking, sweating, fast heartbeat, and blurred vision. check your blood sugar levels daily while using toujeo®. injection site reactions may occur. don't change your dose or type of insulin without talking to your doctor. tell your doctor if you take other medicines and about all your medical conditions. insulins, including toujeo, in combination with tzds (thiazolidinediones) may cause serious side effects like heart failure that can lead to death, even if you've never had heart failure before. don't dilute or mix toujeo® with other insulins or solutions as it may not work as intended and you may lose blood sugar control, which could be serious. pay no more than $15 per prescription for 12 months. eligibility restrictions apply. learn more at toujeo.com/info or call 800-580-3421. also, 9 out of 10 medicare part d patients can get toujeo® at the lowest branded copay. ask your doctor about the proven full 24-hour blood sugar control of toujeo®. that was chairman ryan priebus. up next, we're going to talk ahead looking at halloween costumes. it's a good weekend. >> oh my god. >> about whether some of the presidential candidates. >> trump halloween costumes. >> they do. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. the way i see it, you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? 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(unenthusiastic) oh... ha ha ha! joanne? is that you? it's me... you don't look a day over 70. am i right? jingle jingle. if you're peter pan, you stay young forever. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. ♪ you make me feel so young... it's what you do. ♪ you make me feel ♪ so spring has sprung. tonight in bolder, colorado the republican candidates square off again. casey, what are we looking for? >> mika, good morning. from all the conversation we've had, don't forget it's that populist immigration red rick that's really in many ways lit up the base of the republican party and the way he's talking about it has a lot of republicans here concerned about whether it means that they're already seating swing states like colorado. >> i kind of know how a republican can win and lose the primary to win the general. >> long term goal is win swing states like colorado. >> thank you colorado. in 2012 myth romney beat back more conservative challenges. romney lost colorado by five points and the election in an electoral college land slide. >> hello, colorado. >> there's some evidence colorado hasn't turned completely blue. in the 2014 senate race democrats bet they were out to get them. republicans had a candidate who didn't sound as scary as democrats made them seem and corey beat senator mark. >> talking to voters in every community. whether it's a black candidate or hispanic advisories. >> that's where presidential candidate like bush who speaks spanish has a mexican american life could potentially build a good connection. he might not ever get the chance. >> maybe some day they're going to call it the trump wall. >> donald trump's presence in the race has pushed bush to surprising places. >> do you think term anchor baby is offensive? >> no, if there's another term i'm happy to hear it. >> that has latino republicans worried about the future. >> don't expect us to come to your side during the general election. you're not with us now. we will not be with you then. >> thanks to casey hunt with that reporting. joining us now from bolder, colorado, executive director of the latino partnership for american's principal. his group hosted a meeting last night and they made it clear they are listening very carefully. >> you're listening. what are you hearing? >> well, you know, latino republicans and conservatives are angry. angry with the language some candidates are using. what we're saying is if trump is a g.o.p. nominee, he's not going to have our support. he's not going to get enough support to actually win the white house. if trump is the republican candidate, he's not going to win the white house. what our candidates were saying, don't embrace donald trump's red rick or his proposals. if you do, we will come after you and we will single you out. we want a conservative in the white house, we want a conservative who wants to be conservative on immigration. we want candidates to tell us how they're going to deal with undocumented immigrants. >> all right. willie. do you agree, i know you don't like donald trump's red rick. do you agree with him illegal immigration is a big problem in the united states? >> oh, absolutely. i think he's saying much more than that. he will be naive to say it's a problem. he's saying things the majority is undocumented in rapest and criminals and we have to deport everyone. that is absolutely ridiculous. i've worked in the department of homeland security. i don't any officials who believes we can import every candidate. he's saying that feeding read meat to a base within the conservative base of the republican party but he's not going to get the support of latino voters and as we were saying latinos are going to be decisive. >> if we could be careful on both sides of this and i'm not jumping to trump's defense but you just made two comments. where did he say those exact words? he said most all are rapist. >> i don't think that's exactly what he said, is it? >> i don't think that's what he said. >> let's be fair. >> you have to be careful as well. >> i am careful. if you talk to latino communities he said they're criminals and rapist. he said some may be good people. what do you assume from that he's saying. >> thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. we'll see what happens. he afbly has a long way to go with alatino vote. >> we'll talk to some asking the questions tonight. join us straight ahead. so what's your news? i got a job! i'll be programming at ge. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. 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>> i have to say it was fun interviewing him. >> if women followed the rules and made history, well behaved women. you got to speak up. scott walker set back and played by the rules, he's out of the race. people like john kasich and chris krity, he's going to do the nonstop whether they call on him or not. he needs to show strength. >> i think he might. joining the conversation. >> you're a dartmouth man. >> we're going back. i'm excited. >> when i saw miami score saturday as a guy that loves the u, i said what has happened to this program. what does miami, i read an article things are worse. what does miami have to do to start winning big like they did in the past? >> i think bring back the people that knew the culture. the two guys that are most likely to be the coach are both former players and they became grad assistance and moved up the ranks. in the state of miami. >> maybe michael irvin. that's my new culture. 2 live crew recruiting. they were number one is what chuck was about to say. >> by the way, uncle luke right now is one of the better high school coaches, position coaches in south florida. i'm not making that up. we got a lot to talk about today and i'm sure andy was very happy about chuck, you and me talking about miami for four minutes. we had to do it. >> doing my best. donald trump in a fight for first place after an undisputed lead that lasted more than three months. cbs news pole showed ben carson passing trump by four points. carson's support is up five points while trump is down five points but the pole also showed that the vast majority of primary voters are not firm in their choice. 71% saying it's too early to make up their minds. when asked whose better to win the election, 41% say trump and 21% say carson. trump has faired well in other national poles and early contest states including the pole of south carolina where he leads carson 23-19. this morning he leads in south carolina, a new texas pole, north carolina, south carolina, he's ahead and i would guess 49 states the leads are getting closer and the establishment candidates four days away from november. still single digits. this is turning into a ben carson donald trump slug fest. >> in the debate tonight. >> and the four most resent telephone surveys of iowa, trump is trailing carson. last night, trump returned to the hawk eye state and delivered tough love to iowa. >> from the time announced, i've been at the top of the poles, almost at the top. we're doing well. iowa, will you get your numbers, up, please? will you get these numbers up? i am a great christian. i am. remember that. i do well with the evangelicals. the evangelicals left me down a little bit last month. i don't know what i did. so by the way, before i forget, will you get the numbers up, iowa, please? this is ridiculous. what is my competition. in all fairness, what is my composition? do you think these guys, i'm not going to say carson, i'm not going to say rubio whose really way down. i don't like being second. second is terrible to me. most i'm number one. iowa came along and i said every pole and iowa came along, what the hell are you people doing to me? you know. you know. i'm telling you they said why don't you skip iowa? they tell me that. everybody said skip iowa. no? all of the political geniuses, a man interviewed me backstage and said would you thit about skipping iowa and running right to new hampshire because i have such unbelievable issues here with the people from iowa i think we're going to win. i believe that. i hate to say it, but the last long number of elections on the republican circuit, the person that won iowa did not get the nomination, okay, i want to take away some of your mustard. you understand. can we do, at least do me a favor, let me win iowa and then i'm going to win, i'm telling you, it's about time iowa could have a victory and let that person go into a total victory. not like over the last, right. >> when i heard the pole today, they said what are you going to do? i said i'm going to work harder than iowa. i'm not leaving iowa. now, if i lose iowa, i will never speak to you again. [ laughter ] >> that was my favorite line of the night. i'm never going to speak to you people again. >> oh my god. okay. so mike, we talk about optimism and it's not just the message, it's are you having a good time? do you love what you're doing? that guy loves what he's doing. i want to contrast in all seriousness with what we saw with john kasich. a guy we saw up in new hampshire whose optimistic. what has happened to the conservative movement? jeb bush saying i've got better thing toss do. if you want to vote for trump, go ahead. marco saying i hate -- why? >> i'm making a very serious point here. there's a reason donald trump is short on politic prescriptions. he's wrong on not only toughness but also just having a held of a good time out there. there's a reason why voters are attracted to that. >> your point reverts to something donald said and what we just watched. what is my competition for the people gathered in iowa. the question is where is the competition in terms of how they're campaigning for him and for the nomination of their party. they seem to be either quiet, afraid, distance from the electorate. >> quiet, afraid, beaten down, angry, confused like johnson saying i don't know what's happening to my party. >> i would be willing to bet they wouldn't pick up on their own personal. let's take bush, christie and kasich, those three guys show up in a windbreaker on the stage. having been out meeting voters and go after someone. you have to win something in winning the nomination. these guys don't want to win anything. >> they're campaigning like johnson talking. they're confused. trump, here's another example last night. rewriting the rules on a speech that was unlike any other political speech we've seen before and the crowd seemed the love it. >> he did. i have to say i go back to the point you just brought up. i mean, the establishment wing of the party is cracking up in front of us. kasich on his rant there. he out did jeb, rubio and i know mika mentioned earlier, a newspaper mentioned in florida if you hate your job so much why don't you quit and resign the senate. one of them are suppose to be the quote unquote establishment savior. they looked like the old commercial never let them see you sweat. my god, they're oozing sweat and nervousness and frustration. you know, there's a little bit of what was me is in it. they should be fighting for the voter. you know, you got to always be fighting for the voter here. i know most don't believe trump or carson is going to be the nominee but show me how these other three guys are the nominee. >> that is a great point, chuck. is this a summer fling? it gets to september and we say okay, this date here is shocking to me. october 28 october 28th. at some point you can move on or say i need more money. 7% and fifth in every state but i'm going to be the establishment candidatened i think it hit nicole this morning, there may not be an established candidate. it may be trump and carson. we're almost in november. >> i think they're feeling the sense of urgency. i think they're all going to alpha male each other to death and maybe a little chaotic but somebody's got to go. if the establishment wing, somebody's got to go graph it. al hunt you wrote in bloomberg view, the cruz-rubio face off. any calculations thrown off. if bush gains footing he could take out rubio. don't rule out the possibility of a dual between rubio and cruz, the favorite of the movement, right. if we take that scenario, al hunt, how do we get there from here? single digits if your name is not trump or carson. how does that dynamic change? how does rubio and carson rise? >> there's only one way to get there. that's if trump and carson fade crater. i'm not totally agreeing with joe. trump was having fun but he's a little bit rattled by carson. he feels comfortable running against jeb bush, against any of the establishment candidates. carson unnerves him a little bit. as different as they are, carson is also a bit like trump. it has nothing to do with policy or issues. >> another big story we haven't gotten to. senator marco rubio has explained missing the most votes by saying they're not meaningful. >> a lot of these votes are not meaningful. they're not going to pass and even if they did, the president would veto it. >> now one of the biggest newspapers in florida is calling on him to step down. they write marco rubio should resign, not rip us off. they say he's mia from his job because he finds it frustrating and wants to be president instead. sorry senator, florida sent you to washington to do a job. we have serious problems with eroding beaches, flat social security checks and people who want to shut down the government. if you hate your job, senator, follow the honorable lead of speaker boehner and resign. let us elect someone who wants to be there and earn an honest dollar for an honest day's work. don't leave us without one of our two representatives in the senate for the next 15 months or so. you're paid to represent us, fight for us and solve our problems plus you take a $10,000 federal subsidy to participate in one of the obama care health plans though you are a big crit critic. you are ripping us off by choosing to stay in the senate and take the publicity perks. without doing the work, you are taking advantage of us. your job is to represent us. either do your job or resign it. >> usually these stories don't matter. marco saying he hated the senate and workers should be treated tougher. we come from a state with millions and millions of voters. a lot of people went out on the limb electing a young gay. guy. this is a disaster for him. he says he hates the senate, can't handle the senate and bored with the senate. you get over 10 million people depending on your representation. if you hate it so much, quit. go home and let somebody do their job. i say that as a guy who through my fourth term knew i had to go home. one of my kids had diabetes and the other one was like dad, i've been without you seven years. i need you to come home. i had to come home. i didn't just sit there and take a paycheck. i had to make the toughest decision of my life. and i hated leaving the job i love but you know what, i knew i couldn't represent the people who voted for me and be with my kids full time. at some point marco has got to quit. he's got to quit the senate if he's not going to do his job, right. >> look at that editorial and combine it with those quotes. lest say he's the nominee, hillary clinton is going to destroy him by saying i've had more obstacles and there's been a ton of times i wanted to quit. >> you can just picture how this debate goes. i read that article and thought this is going to be hung around us. this is right after everybody's saying it's rubio the savior. he's the one the establishment is going to rally around. barack obama is giving up on working with congress too easy. marco rubio dealing with speaker, is he going to get frustrated and say i'm tired of congress? >> exactly. my pet peeve with barack obama is, he gave up. he gave up because it was too hard to figure out how to deal with the republican congress. bob dole did the honorable thing. he resigned to run for president in 1996. if marco can't handle the senate now, he can't handle it as president of the united states either. what do you think about the washington post article and also th this. >> >> i think they're right in the mark. that was a stupid thing to say. he ought to resign now. as republican governor, he's not going to run for re-election. he's put himself in a real jam. i wonder what jeb bush was saying the other day. what three things had jeb bush rather be doing than be president of the united states? >> cool things. >> we begin this whole segment by talking about the establishment candidates all in single digits. it's getting to them. >> it is getting to them. you know, we've had two presidents. i talked to barack obama. i tell you one of the things i didn't like about george w. bush, i hated hearing bush, i hate washington. i never read the papers. if you don't love washington, the game, if you can't sit down t with people who want to knock your head off politically, don't come to washington. here we got marco rubio, he doesn't like it. it's too tough. jeb bush, if you don't like me, i'm going home. there's a love of the game and i say that it is the most serious game for the biggest country in the world but if you don't love it like reagan loved it, like bill clinton loved, like j.f.k. loved it, like nancy loved it, like newt loved it, get the hell out. stay on the farm. don't come to the bigs. but all of these people wine. barack obama, he doesn't like washington. why did he come here? stay home. george w. bush, he really doesn't like politics. he doesn't like it, he hates it. then go home. you know what, you should have been commissioner of major league baseball if you're so n contentionous of working in washington d.c. >> the whole thrust of the campaign now the washington sucks. you can't show me one candidate, whose the one who loves the game? >> it's actually the governors. >> john kasich loves the game. he was down there. >> you know who loves the game? donald trump loves the game. >> here's the trick. you can do all the prancing and dancing and everything about washington you want. people buy that. you also have to show a little joy in the business. >> you want to change washington. >> politics is about people. you should show a little joy out there. trump does show zombie czar form of joy. the others look as if they're about to have a root canal. >> yes. >> chuck todd, ben carson, it's sort of a sliced mile. he doesn't let anything get to him. i love john, i was blown away. i don't know who i'm going to vote for. he sounded like all the other complainers with that thing of what's happened to the conservative movement. you look forward and say let me tell you where i'm taking the republican party, where i'm taking america. they're all dower aren't they, chuck. >> go grab it. i completely agree. i get it. i think they can't believe trump and carson are winning. i get it. they're having and it's literally we're watching them. it's the first time any of them have felt, maybe that's the thing. john kasich never really experienced a set back in his political career. jeb bush did in 1994. you would think he would have a little bit more comfort level in dealing with a set back. marco rubio has never had a set back. perhaps that's what we're seeing here. guys that are not use to having set backs. >> what you're seeing here is such -- christie has fun. >> christie still has a smile on his face. >> at 20 miles an hour, it's the whole thing. al hunt, thank you very much. chuck todd, thank you. you'll be sitting down with jeb bush for saturday's meet the press. >> i can't wait for that. >> still ahead on morning joe. >> we'll find out about the cool things. >> yeah, let us though what they are. >> okay. still ahead on morning joe, senior white house correspondent joints us with a revealing look at what some colorado voters think about ben carson. plus a house divided. we'll be joined by the chairman of the influential house of freedom caucus. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. alright team, we've got an f150, needs a systems check and tires. treads, what you got? lookin' a little bald, sir. with all due respect. got the perfect fit -- ready to roll. wheels up, flaps down, let's fly. right now during the big tire event, get a $140 mail-in-rebate on four select tires at your ford dealer. ford parts. ford tools. ford techs. when your ford needs service, there's one, elite team. these are the specialists. at ford. we heard you got a job as a developer!!!!! its official, i work for ge!! what? wow... yeah! okay... guys, i'll be writing a new language for machines so planes, trains, even hospitals can work better. oh! sorry, i was trying to put 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it. right. i don't get it. you looked down, i don't get it. so i decided to go to colorado christian university. it's where ben carson is going to go tomorrow and get a sense from the students getting very active in this campaign about what they think about ben carson and where is his support coming from or not. take a listen. >> he brings something with lots of what i feel has been missing from the election. >> i know his character and his christian morals are found in the right place. i think anybody that gets a chance to hear him speak and hear his critical thinking ki skills and where he comes from, i think that makes him a candidate for america. >> i think what makes him likable is the fact he doesn't change what he says. he stands by everything he says. i think that's good in a presidential candidate. they're not going to be wis wishy washy. >> as a presidential candidate, i don't think he has a strong enough personality to lead the nation and stand up internationally. >> what's interesting is the whole personal argument, the quiet demeanor is what they're finding. >> take a listen to this. 750,000 donations now from 450,000 different people. an average of $51 each. 4.5 million followers on facebook do noting through facebook $600,000 a week. where is all that purpose coming from? they call it a deposition of feeling. you talked about it, joe. a couple of weeks ago you were saying you and mika and louis were going to california and everything went wrong. you're a normal good person and you go to the store and something miscounts your change and it drives you nuts. it's a symbol of what's broken in america. what they're calling it is purposeful brokenness in washington that a decision has been made by many of the folks who go there. they don't like it, they're not going to do anything positive and that's what they think they're same thing will come from. >> that was pretty good. >> wow. >> all right chris, thank you so much. >> this is something none of us understand. if you ask trump voters is your mind made up or chance you'll vote for someone else? no. mind is made up. if he ask the ben carson supporters the same question, 80% says my mind is made up. carson still has is potential makings of a sanatorium and mccain and bachman. >> that's fascinating. carson has the lead in the national number. they think 41%, trump has the best shot of winning. >> my brother, your dad, my brother is going to vote for donald trump. i don't care if he nukes demonies. >> he doesn't say those things. >> he doesn't say those things. >> he could say anything and your brother would still vote for him. >> raising the dealt celling. house speaker john boehner admits the deal is not permit while the man in line to replace him paul ryan weighed in. >> i think this process stinks. we should have been discussing this months ago. in the future, we need a better process than the one that's working. we were the freedom caucus. our complaint was your complaint. don't come to us and say vote this way or the whole world blows up. >> this is not going to happen anymore. >> time and time again before the new leadership comes in, they're going to do it again. we get this in less than 48 hours. it increases the borrowing authority a trillion and a half dollars. this is what's got to change. i think it's right for the speaker or new speaker to say this process stinks which it certainly does. >> during the government shut down, remember, we had john boehner bragging about the fact they had a deal that was going to reduce the deficit. then we found out it increased by a good bit. that's what happens when they put a gun to your head and say vote for this. one of the things we discussed was go early or go home. go early, figure out where we can be. a good solid position with what we told the voters we were going to do. pass the senate and it's something we were going to do. it's still reasonable. stand firm for that position. that's how you win the debate. sustain the debate and take a good position. that's the plan of the new leadership and why we're looking forward to this change. >> congressman, this is steve. the cynical take on what's happening right now, i heard this described as john boehner's parting gift to paul ryan. paul ryan, because of this will not have to deal with the debt ceiling for the next eight years and not have to deal with keeping the government open for the next year. he gets to decry the process but doesn't get to dial wieal with issues. >> boehner said clean out the barn. i wish it wouldn't have happened. it looks like they're going to get the votes mostly from democrats. this is another problem. we have this rule that it seems like our passengership never wanted to follow where you wanted the majority of the majority. there may be less than a majority of the republicans that support this in the house today. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, congressman. >> and the number two democrat in the house, congressman stenny hoyer joins us again. one of the people that will be asking questions tonight, cnbc's rick joins us next. >> he's a troublemaker. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ turn to roc® retinol correxion®. one week, fine lines appear to fade. one month, deep wrinkles look smoother. after one year, skin looks ageless. high performance skincare™ only from roc®. after one year, skin looks ageless. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. tand that's what we're doings to chat xfinity.rself, we are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience. and this includes our commitment to being on time. every time. that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. joining us from bolder, colorado, rick will be questioning candidates on issues. what's the waive and give up question you want answered? >> whose going to be left after the debate is over? >> the average nern when they go to vote are going to be thinking about their wallet and i think everything that goes on with regard to the economy and perceptions on main street as to how things have changed, cnbc, that's our beat. we're going to dig down deep and hopefully give americans more on their list to make the right decision eventually in november. when one of those candidates is on theballot. >> so you got to top two, looks like a carson, trump debate. donald's been involved in business for a long time. ben carson, we don't know a whole lot on him. are you going to press him on creating new jobs in america and tax cuts, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. ? >> well, i think we absolutely have to talk about jobs and i think with regard to the future and different policies, there's a number of issues these candidates are going to have to address and i think mr. carson coming from outside the establishment affords us many different directions, of course, to try to probe to see how an outsider or outsiders in this case have garnered so much love from the public at least from the poles from this side of the aisle. >> how much are you looking for that haven't been pressed in the debate format and that helps candidates more than others. is that part of when you're trying to get at tonight? specific economic plans, specific tax cuts. >> absolutely. listen, we will try our best to get the tightest answers and of course, i think cnbcs john harrellwood, they have very good experience in continuing to dig. you just can't make blanket statements. >> it's going to be exciting. >> make sure you tune in. >> follow up questions. these guys have been skating and not having to be specific. >> you have to go back to preworld war 1 roimgz. >> we don't speak in tweets. >> you've got a great opportunity. we're excited you're doing it. it's going to be great. >> it's going to be fun. thank you, rick. we'll see you tonight. up next, is it a new chapter on capitol hill? we are joined with a take on a major budget deal and the man whose expected to be the next speaker of the house. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? 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ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. for a free 30-tablet trial go to cialis.com i don't want him to walk in full of you know what. i've done my best to try to clean it up. >> now we get the house majority, minority whip. it might take a couple of elections. we both worked for paul ryan. i'm a conservative guy and worked with him on my side of the aisle. you worked with him on the other side. what do you think of paul ryan? >> i think he's obviously what everybody knows. he's quiet, hardworking and very issue focussed and i think can be an outstanding leader of the house. there's a big if, of course. in order to be an outstanding leader, you got to have outstanding followers and the problem with republicans have had is they're a deeply divided party and have renders their leadership dysfunctional. >> can you give americans this morning a reason of hope and reason to believe that congress can work? can you explain and tell americans a good side of what happens in that house of representatives when democrats and republicans work together? >> what i say to people is the house is less than the sum of its parts. what i mean by that as you well know, joe. some good sides of the aisle. if we would stop confronting one another and do real things and understand that we have a compromise, the house can and should work for this great country. so we have good people in the house. as a body we have not functioned in an effective manner because we have been too partisan and too divided. it has largely been the republican party that was deeply divided. you saw yesterday a perfect example of that. just before the election of the new speaker. we considered the export/import bank that we had passed overwhelmingly bipartisanly in the past. there was a confrontation. republicans had to bring it to the floor over the objection of the chairman of the committee. guess what. 127 republicans, a majority of the republicans, voted for it, and every democrat save one voted for it. that was a bipartisan agreement. i think we took an effective step forward. then this bipartisan agreement -- and i want to congratulate john boehner for trying to clean up some of the tough issues before paul ryan steps in. he's done that. hopefully today we will pass the debt limit budget deal, which is not a perfect deal, obviously. it's not a long-term deal. but it is certainly better than the alternative. >> all right. >> congressman, i'm thinking back a couple of years to all the bashing of paul ryan that the attacks when he was the vice presidential candidate in 2012. extremist candidate. going to destroy medicare, granny over the cliff. now i hear you saying you think you can work with him. how can you work with the guy that you guys pilloried? >> wanted to push granny over the cliff! >> let me say -- so there is no confusion, i thought paul ryan's budgets were not good budgets. hall rogers referred to them as unrealistic and ill-conceived, hal rogers, a republican, as you know. i don't think his budgets were good policy documents. they were good political documents. but if paul ryan -- he certainly has the ability, if he wants to lead in a constructive, positive, bipartisan way, he has the ability to do that, and i hope that's what he does. >> all right. steny hoyer. >> congressman steny hoyer. thank you. hey, we want to come down and see you guys. >> i'm looking forward to it. anytime you want to come down, you let me know. >> thank you, steny. still ahead in the next hour, the bernie sanders campaign is none too pleased with hillary clinton's latest line of attack. he's going to have to choose his next steps carefully. we'll dig into the new reporting on that. you're watching "morning joe." proud of you, son. ge! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. 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zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. when heartburn strikes, take zantac for faster relief than nexium or your money back. take the zantac it challenge. good morning. it's wednesday, october 28th. do you know halloween is coming? >> yes, it is. >> so excited. >> what are you going as? >> me? >> yep. >> i am still thinking about it. nicole? >> my son is an astronaut. so that makes me an astronaut's mother. >> you know what i'm going as willie? >> what's that? >> a guy who went to dartmouth. i did go to dartmouth. i did. last week. last week. >> i think it's a bad sign my daughter won't show me her costume. >> oh, that -- you know, your daughter's costume last year had handcuffs. that's all i'm going to say. >> what are you doing for halloween? >> it's quiet now. >> it has gotten quiet. >> a disgruntled mets fan. >> willie geist. >> so this is just an epic world series game, in a time when baseball seems to be getting less relevant by the year. last night all of america -- my entire twitter feed. i went on it last night, as i always do to see if there were any nude pictures of you. i only found three. other than those three, everybody was talking about the game. i turned it on. it's one of the bizarrest things. it starts out bizarre. then it goes -- something i haven't seen in 50 years of watching baseball. it goes black. >> unbelievable. so a couple hours before the game the royals' starting pitcher's father dies. the wife asks that they not tell him until he comes out of the game. inside the park home run on the first hitter by the mets. >> that just never happens. inside-the-park home run. >> first hitter of the world series. inside-the-park home run. they're up early. in the fourth inning, as you said, joe, fox's feed goes down. they put up the screen that says "we're having technical difficulties." this is during the world series. >> it's like the 1950s. a holding pattern. >> it cuts -- >> did they play elevator music? >> it cuts to the poor guys in new york city. and one of them is like, uh, okay. what do we do? it was so bizarre. it was crazy. >> and then it happened again. >> you're right. they went back to the studio in l.a., the three guys. wondering what's happening themselves. can i ask, do they only have one truck, and did a cat like start chewing on a cord or something? they said what happened was the power went out and their backup generator went out. so they had a backup and they both went out. i don't understand how or why. it's remarkable during the world series for a major network to lose their feed. >> i've got to tell you, when something like that happens, you're thinking -- it's like the san francisco quake. you think something really bad has happened. >> absolutely. they switch over to the international feed. >> it was a cat chewing on a card. >> it was. >> the fox announcers go into the mlb booth and take over those guys' space. they get the feed back on. they go 14 innings after the royals tied the game in the bottom of the ninth with a home run by gordon. in the 14th inning the royals win the game. all that in the first game of the world series. >> it was a great game. going to be a great series. only time two expansion teams have made the world series. the sac fly was by hosmer, the guy who made the error that would have let the mets win the game. that was unbelievable. >> did i tell you, willie, that i went to dartmouth? yeah, i did. >> you are a green raider? >> we used to be indians and now i think it's trees. dartmouth trees. ask me any question about dartmouth and i can answer it. let's turn to politics now. nice sweatshirt. are we doing candidates? >> we have another one next week, but we can't say who. donald trump in a fight for first place after an undisputed lead that lasted more than three months. the poll yesterday showed ben carson passing trump by four points but within the margin of error. carson's support up five points and trump's is down five points. the poll showed the vast majority of primary voters are not firm in their choice. 71% say it's too early to make up their minds. >> looking at this number, nicole, you're happy. you're like jeb's people and you go, we could end up with actually 78% of the vote. >> yes! >> add it up. i went to dartmouth. i can add 71 plus 8 -- 7. >> in other national polls and early contest states including the new poll in south carolina where he leads carson 23 to 19. but in the four most recent telephone surveys of iowa trump is trailing carson badly. trump returned to the state last night for the first time since his polling dip. we talk about joy, joy of the fight. trump delivered tough love. >> with joy. >> from the time i announced, i have been at the top of the polls. almost at the top. you know, we're doing well. iowa, will you get your numbers up, please? geez! [ cheers and applause ] i am a great christian. and i am. i am. remember that. and i do well with the evangelicals. but the evangelicals let me down a little bit this last month. i don't know what i did. by the way, before i forget, will you get the numbers up, iowa, please. this is ridiculous! i mean, what is my competition? in all fairness, in all fairness, what -- what is my competition? do you think these guys -- i'm not going to say carson. i'm not going to say rubio, who really is way down. i mean, i am second. it's not like terrible, but i don't like being second. second is terrible to me. in most polls i'm number one. now, until iowa came along i said every poll, and then iowa came -- what the hell are you people doing to me? you know? you know? i'm telling you. they said why don't you skip iowa. they told me that. everybody said, skip iowa. no! [ boos ] >> all of the political geniuses. a man just interviewed me back stage. he said, would you ever think of maybe skipping iowa, going right to, you know, right to new hampshire? i said, i can't do that, because i have such an unbelievable relationship with the people from iowa that i think we're going to win. i really do. i believe it. i believe it. i hate to say it, but the last long number of elections on the republican circuit, the person that won iowa did not get the nomination, okay. i want to take away some of your mustard, you understand that. please do me a favor. let me win iowa, and then i'm going to win -- i'm going to win -- i'm telling you. i want to tell you. will you -- i refuse to say get your asses in gear. i will not say it! i will not say it because i don't want to use anything that's even a little bit off. so will you please do me a favor and work with my people and go out on february 1st and vote and give us a victory. and if i win iowa, we're going to run the whole table. >> okay. >> then i says, if i don't i'm never going to talk to you again. [ laughter ] >> we were around this table. >> what? >> howling at what was going on. this really is the secret to donald trump. everybody was like, oh, he's going to be angry. no! that may have been his best speech. >> ever! >> i mean, it was hilarious, but it was also -- you know what it also showed? it showed he is a winner. he wants to be in first place, and when he gets knocked down he's not going to sit and whine about it. >> he's going to go, okay. >> that was the question with these polls. how is he going to respond? will he be a different candidate. that's how he responded right there. when you're -- can you imagine not just in this cycle but any previous cycle of a presidential candidate, yelling, basically giving a locker room speech to the iowa voters telling them to get off their rather ends screaming, what the hell is wrong with you people. >> chaellenging the voters saying. your have made yourself irrelevant. you're going to do it again. if you want to pick a winner. i'm here. nicole, your dad had to love that speech. >> you know, what i love about trump is he does -- he sort of takes that third rail. candidates are sort of taught not to -- either it looks a little self-involved to talk about your own poll numbers. you're really not supposed to sound like dick morris. you're supposed to sound like ronald reagan. he has sort of out poll-mastered all the campaign managers. i can't imagine being his poll manager. what do you do? he is the master of his own polls. that's what people love. people wonder what happens behind the scenes in politics. he removes it all. >> i have to tell you, that, for me, as a republican voter, as trump actually at his -- at his best. because, you know, this is a character test. and you're trying to figure out the character of the person who is going to be president of the united states. this is a guy that comes straight at you. i knew people like that that i worked with in congress. they come straight at you and they're not going to whisper behind your back. no machinations. they're coming right at you. i have never heard a speech like that in iowa. that's the genius of donald trump. instead of jeb bush saying i have better things to do if you people don't vote for me, donald trump is in there fighting, laughing and smiling and saying, hey, vote for me or you're a loser! it's not a reflection on me. it's a reflection on you. >> what are you people doing to me? what are you doing to me? i mean, look, you know, all these campaigns and every -- every place the candidates hit adversity at some point. the question is what do they do? not just tactically, strategically or what ad do they put up. it's how do they act? what's the vibe you get from them. that's a good look. >> how do you think it plays to the old cliche iowa nice, right? that iowa is a certain kind of voter. as he slips a little bit, do you think that plays well? >> i think it plays great, because what i found in the '93 and '94 with bill clinton, you know, he was passing the big tax increase, and he was passing nafta and a lot of things that conservatives and populists didn't like. it was the first time i was taught this. every victory he had, which was supposed to be the end of the world, his poll numbers would go up. people love winners. americans love winners. they feel like we've been kicked around for a long time. right there, that's a winner. and that's a guy that's used to winning, and that's a guy that, when he gets knocked down, he doesn't start worrying. and of course the press, over the past 24 hours, one poll comes out, and seriously, you would think it was the end of the world for donald trump. >> there are several, but he is joyfully unpre dictable about responses. everybody thought he would shoot down and clobber somebody. he knows who his enemies are and who the really concerns in the race are. for him it's not ben carson. >> it will be interesting to see what happens tonight in the debate. >> it will be fascinating. >> it will be interesting to see. >> i agree. because i actually think that the reason he is losing ground to ben carson is because ben carson is nicer than he is. >> yeah. >> but i saw -- i thought in the town hall he tried to show a little bit of his niceness. i thought the question about why is he not more humble was the highlight of the night for me. i wonder if any of it stuck in his brain. obviously not in iowa. when you stand shoulder to shoulder with somebody whose brand is his niceness, i wonder if it reins in -- he berated his supporters in iowa. that's call it what it is. people who are choosing between carson and trump, today, this week, again, polls are just a snapshot. they're going with carson because he is nicer. >> except for the fact that that's a guy that was having fun with voters, poking voters. there is jeb bush, who berated voters and basically said you people suck. >> he got a standing ovation for doing it. no one in the room felt berated. >> that means nothing because howard dean screaming into the microphone wasn't that loud with the crowd noises. the feed was. jeb bush says, you people don't get it. you're too stupid to realize how gait great i am. if you don't figure it out pretty soon i'm going home. donald trump is sitting there laughing. he's very joyful. there is nothing negative about that. i think, again, that's helpful. but he does have a problem with ben carson right now. i will say right now, ben carson wins iowa. i don't see him winning any other states. i'm sorry. maybe he does. maybe he wins it all. look at a new poll out of north carolina, trump in first place. but carson is a close second. new poll out of texas. trump in first place. carson is a close second. new polls across america. trump in first place, carson a close second. here is the most important thing, willie geist, everybody else, in single digits. >> yeah. >> everybody else irrelevant. the republican establishment in d.c. keeps waiting for the hero to rise from the streets. it's not going to happen as long as they're in single digits because they're not going to raise money. and jeb and marco and everybody else, but maybe ted cruz are going to run out of money pretty soon if they don't -- if they don't get in double digits. ted cruz is in third place in his own state. jeb's in third place in his own state, i think. marco is in third or fourth place in some polls, in his own state. they've got to get moving or they're out. still ahead donald trump gets perhaps the most important endorsement in the history of endorsements. >> it's massive. will bernie sanders sharpen his message against hillary clinton? john heilemann's new reporting on that. republican cory gardner turned one of colorado's senate seats from blue to red. the freshman senator joins us just ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? they come into this iworld ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. what are your thoughts on him today? do you think that he's going to be -- he's got your vote. >> big-time. >> why wouldn't anybody like that? a guy that came from where he came from, doing what he's doing. and now this is where he's at now. know what that means? that don't mean he's a bad guy. that mean the people are tired of what you been doing. what we been doing the last 20 years. it says let's try something new. >> hillary or bernie? >> excuse me? >> hillary or bernie sanders. stay away. neither way. so you're endorsing trump, saefrngs essentially. >> i would, yeah. i like trump, yeah. >> we were just talking about something really quickly. it's october. there is something psychological about saying trump and carson are dominating, 50% in october. we're four days away from november. talk about -- like -- there is a ticking time clock. at some point the donors go, all right, we're in november. these guys aren't going to do it. >> right. and i think -- >> these guys being the establishment candidates who are all in single digits in november. >> right. we keep talking about two brackets, two lanes. i wonder when we abandon that. at some point it's a roller derby and they're all in it and two guys are so dominant that the other guys don't have a chance. i wonder when we stop presenting it that way. that's how the campaigns are doing. jeb is trying to outdo rubio. christie is trying to rise. the calculation is that the mountain will crumble but it shows no sign of that. it's not a cloud. it is dirt and rocks and republican primary voters are into it. >> and when you get into november, four days away, suddenly there is a -- i mean, that's a psychological impact. the bs of this is a summer fling. remember all that bs and, oh, they're bachmann or they're kane or whatever. you know what, the establishment is really, really lucky that iowa got moved back a month. or this would be over. >> yeah. changing the timing matters a lot. because you think about the extra month. you have the holidays in november, and december, and that january will be obviously a frantic and crazy month. >> heilmann. you have a new interview up on bloomberg politics with bernie sanders' top advisors. in it you ask sanders' campaign manager jeff weaver if his shift to the left on issues makes for a hypocrite. the piece reads, quote, a craven hypocrite? grinning slyly. that's a bit harsh. then he added with a chuckle. we're willing to give her more credit than obama did. we're willing to consider her or vice president. we'll give her serious consideration. we'll even interview her. you say the sanders campaign is preparing to enter a new phase. you're right, quote. the new phase will be more aggressive, hard edged and focused on driving home contrasts between sanders and clinton. in other words, it will be more negative. >> wow! >> i don't see sanders going negative. >> it's interesting. there is a balance -- >> not ugly negative. >> they certainly will tell you that they have no intention of going negative on her in a personal way related to her emails, character issues. but they really feel as though, you know, on every issue that matters to the democratic electorate he has been consistent in principle and she has not been. so they'll try to drive the issue contrasts in a dramatic way. it's interesting. he has said before that he would never do negative ads. he's never run a negative ad in his life. he was on david axelrod's podcast. he asked him if he would stick to that and bernie wouldn't say that he would. he said i hope i won't have to. axelrod said it doesn't seem like you're saying no. he said we'll see. >> after the past couple days, it's like, how -- how under -- how dirty are they going to play? >> that's part of the question. sorry. >> no. you're right. i think they will. you actually heard bernie sanders yesterday morning go farther than i think he has gone before. he was on the "today" show and said i'm pleased to see that hillary clinton has finally come around to my positions on the issues important to progressives and democrats. in other words, i've been doing this my whole life and now she's coming in with me. >> if he wants to actually win the race, he'll have to get tougher. he'll have to say, you know what, i didn't stick my finger up in the wind and try to figure -- hillary clinton doesn't know what she believes in. seriously. she runs the state department and says that tpp is the greatest thing ever. it's the gold standard. then she weasels out of it when she decides she wants to be president of the united states. then see tells stuff that's just not the truth. oh, well, i hoped it would get better. no, hillary you called it the gold standard. on keystone. she's at the state department. they decided to endorse it. he could easily go after her aggressively and fairly. dow on a tear coming up. what does wall street want to hear from the republican field? as the republican candidates descend on colorado this evening we'll ask the state's republican senator what he is looking for in tonight's debate? senator cory gardner joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. bis committed to truth on the label. when we say real meat is the first ingredient, it is always number one. we leave out poultry by-product meal, corn, wheat and soy. and, we own where our dry food is made - 100%. can other brands say all that? for grain-free nutrition you can trust, does your food go beyond? learn more at beyondpetfood.com (vo) wit runs on optimism.un on? 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[female announcer] if the most is the staying awake part, day sleep train has your ticket to a better night's sleep. because when brands compete, you save during mattress price wars. save up to $400 on beautyrest and posturepedic. get interest-free financing until 2018 on tempur-pedic. plus, helpful advice from the sleep experts. don't miss mattress price wars at sleep train. ♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ at some point some of these guys have to leave. don't we agree? it's getting ridiculous. because, like tomorrow night we're having a debate. i wish we had for mitime for th debate. i wish we had -- not in terms of three hours because who wants three hours. you know what, i could stand up for 20 hours if i had to but who wants to watch that long. >> exactly. who does. >> not me. >> do you ? >> i'm weird. i would have. but i -- >> with us from boulder, colorado, the co-moderator of the tonight's presidential debate. brian sullivan, mike barnicle and nicole wallace with us as well. no two-hour debate. >> three. >> it's going to be a two-hour debate. >> yes. >> two hours of actual debate time. not simply from 8:00 to 10:00 or whatever but two hours of solid discussion. >> which is fantastic. what are you going to try to do in this debate to avoid some of the pitfalls of the past? we're not criticizing anybody in the past, but just to make sure -- >> learn along the way. >> to make sure you get out of this what you think your viewers want out of this. >> well, i think two things. one, i think the news flow is sort of aligning perfectly for a debate like ours. whether it's ryan, whether it's the debt limit agreement, whether it's the fed decision today. all these things will flow right into a discussion about the economy. i think there are potential follow-ups that, if it weren't ours, meaning cnbc's, things might fall on the floor. >> for instance, ben carson will say tonight what he has already said, which is he will never vote to raise the debt ceiling. will you guys follow up with what the economic consequences of that are? >> absolutely. i mean, other things about, you know, trump always mentions china's currency. there's a little more ebb and flow to what's happened to their currency over time. we're going to do our best to stay on top of that and watch for inconsistencies and hypocrisies and outright falsehoods. >> ben carson said on the show -- cnbc, i think it was -- that he wanted to abolish medicare. is that something that you want to get into tonight? >> i think some of those views, which are on the polar ends of the spectrum that we're going to see tonight, are worth discussing, especially when you -- i mean, the discussion of entitlements is a good one because it fits both with our daily audience, which talks about this stuff all the time and also the broad audience that really doesn't watch cnbc. all they know is what they see on their social security check every month. that's a big target for us tonight i'm sure. >> carl, what are the intents of the republican debate? who is the referee? can they go at each other? what's the time frame going to be like? >> we discuss this a lot. do you need to stoke the fire, do you need to stir the pot manually? my own sense is -- and i'll ask you the same question -- the race is tight enough and competitive enough at this point that we don't have to goad them into going after each other. i think there will be fireworks naturally. we'll definitely see where it goes. if something develops we'll stick with it. we're not going to sacrifice a moment or revelation simply to get to another round of questions which may not be as interesting. >> carl, this is brian sullivan from cnbc. i never get to ask you a question. so this is fantastic. how are you, buddy? what is so cool about this debate -- what's so interesting about this debate and why it's so watchable is that, carl, we haven't heard a lot about the economy from the candidates so far. they've either been going after each other, talking about foreign policy, slamming the left. this will be the first time that we get to really -- i don't want to say hammer but dig into these issues with the candidates on their economic views. we have not heard much so far. how excited are you? >> i mean, that's -- someone said the other day that -- i don't know if this is true, but that an actual question, like a leading question about the national debt had not been asked yet. >> no. >> up to this point in the debates. >> almost nothing on the economy. >> obviously we've been consumed with a lot of social issues, consumed about the process. but this is like -- it's a big fat target as far as we're concerned especially since pocketbooks and taxes and jobs and housing are generally what in the end makes up voters' decisions. in some ways i think we're a little surprised that a lot of this stuff hasn't gotten covered yet, but we're going to fix that tonight in about 12 hours. >> we're excited. sounds like jobs, jobs, jobs, economy, economy, economy. we need this debate. carl, thank you for bringing it to us. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern. we'll all be watching. brian, stay with us. still ahead, a mon who knows a thing or two about how a republican can win over colorado voters. senator cory gardner joins us. 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all right. 36 past the hour. the "des moines register" reports this morning ben carson has surpassed hillary clinton as the top fundraiser in iowa. >> we all get this. of course we all get it. i mean, who doesn't get this. >> he is nice. >> he is nice. and he -- he was a good doctor. >> he was an incredible pediatric surgeon. >> he is a good guy. >> neurosurgeon. >> he is a good guy. a christian. >> it isn't an indictment of anybody else. >> he's nice. people want somebody who is nice to run -- he'll run the largest economy in the world and run the largest army in the world and run the largest everything in the world. >> i'm getting depressed? >> why are you depressed? he's a really good guy and i like him. he smiles a lot. you know what else? he speaks really quietly. i don't see what you don't get. >> he's a nice man. he speaks softly. this is the united states of america. i'm not looking for that. >> we do have a $400 billion deficit. >> we all get this. >> let's try it. >> in time of crisis. medicare and medicaid are going to bankrupt us. >> foreign relations committee, republican senator cory gardner of colorado. cory. >> cory, we're going to speak quietly. >> i don't think he even heard us a. >> good morning. i can hear you barely. >> he likes it! >> whatever ben carson has got, we obviously all need it. so i'm going to talk really quietly and say how are you doing? so cory, we were talking about what a great campaign you ran in 2014. nobody expected you to win. but you actually knew how to reach out to independents and swing democrats. are you concerned right now that the primary process, even though you're a rock-hard conservative, are you a little concerned that we may not be doing what we need to do right now to win states like colorado next november? >> well, this is an incredible process, of course, that whittle its way down over the next several months. it might whittle down after tonight. over the next several months republicans have to do an incredible job of laying out a vision for this country, a vision that's optimistic and shows where we are going to be and not just next year but over the next decade and generation in terms of our economy and everything. >> senator, have we done that yet? >> i think you're starting to get into more of the policies, some of the personalities have moved off the stage in terms of focus and policies have taken main-stage focus. we're seeing that. we've seen policy announcements about western issues by some of the candidates over the last couple weeks. tonight i hope they talk about the western values of energy, the economy, getting government out of the way. colorado is a live and let live state. get the government out of the way and let me live my life the way that i want to. >> senator, you are on the foreign relations committee. we have at least two failed states in the middle east that we're looking at, iraq and syria. we have had heavy involvement, as we all know, in iraq over the past 12 years or so. now we're looking at the possibility of reintroducing additional american troops on the ground in iraq. what do you feel about that, and what do you think is the sense among your constituents about the possibility of another growing, emerging conflict in iraq? and syria. >> i think, if you look at the root cause of what house happened in iraq and syria, it's a lack of u.s. strategy, lack of leadership. a president who fulfilled a campaign promise instead of following advice on the ground in iraq. i travelled to the middle east in april of this year and met with leaders and iraq, jordan and afghanistan. we talked about what happened when a campaign promise was made to withdraw from iraq, allowing the vacuum to create the in-filling of terrorism to take back the land that was so hard fought for by so many american heroes in iraq. creating a problem there. russia filling the vacuum that the united states has left open because of a failed strategy or no strategy. i think it's because of the administration's across the arc of foreign policy, failure at every point. >> senator, brian sullivan. oil has been a big topic for a year now. inside the foreign relations committee do you guys discuss the possibility of failed petrol dollar states or the increased risk, to follow up on what mike was saying, of increased conflict in the area? and countries like russia that are economically strapped because of what's happened with oil? >> in recent news you saw where two of the rainy day funds that russia relied on to get through this economic crisis that they're facing, one is almost, if not already, insolvent. with the oil where it is, they can't continue to prop up their failed economy, counting on oil to do so. so it does create a challenge. colorado tonight, this debate will focus on energy. i think energy should be, and oil in particular, export should be a topic discussed tonight. colorado is a real energy state as well. the foreign relations committee not only spends a lot of time talking about what the economic impact of energy prices are in the middle east but what the iran deal means for oil exports in the united states, what renewable energy options we have. that's another thing we'll talk about tonight in boulder. i certainly hope so. >> can i bring it back to politics and demographics. your state is very influencing. you obviously were very aware of the power of the latino vote when you ran for the senator. are you concerned that some of the folks polling high nationally are the a problem with that group of voters? >> i think we have to make sure that we recognize that we have an immigration crisis in this country, this our immigration system is broken. that doesn't mean everybody has to agree on the same immigration plan, but it does mean that people need to be open about the discussion of immigration. that's border security, that's creating a guest worker program. that makes sure that we are treating people with respect and recognizing the importance that immigration -- the important role that immigration has played in this country's history, whether it's doctors on the eastern plains of colorado or somebody who is working in agriculture today. the fact is immigration has played an important role, and we have to recognize that we need a plan to fix a broken system. it shouldn't take 17 years to come into the country through a legal process, encouraging people to go through a process that's not legal. that's what we need to do is recognize a need for solutions, treat people with respect. i think that will do more than anything to open up places like p that have a heavy latino population. places that did well in 2014. >> you spoke with great specificity about our national immigration problem. is everyone rising to that level in our field? >> you know, i don't think it's there yet. various members of the debate tonight have put forward immigration plans, and so at times that we've seen specificity over the past several years of the campaign not so much. it's difficult to get into a concrete immigration plan with 30 second sound bites at a debate. over the next couple of months the people of the country will be looking for those kinds of ideas and platforms. it doesn't mean everybody has to agree with president obama or this plan or that plan. people need to recognize that we have a problem that needs to be fixed. when we have problems that need to be fixed, congress addresses them. >> senator, thank you so much. really appreciate it. >> thank you, cory. >> thank you very much. >> i don't have a quiet voice. i am sorry. >> we like yours. >> you're doing trust fine. trust us. for presidential candidates it takes more than snappy logos and catch phrases to build a brand. we'll talk to an industry expert about the key traits that can make a lasting impression for would-be voters. keep it here on "morning joe." ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. 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[ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ my mom works at ge. the internet of things. what we're recommending as your consultants... the new consultants are here. it's not just big data, its bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪ xerox believes finding the right solution shouldn't be so much work. by engineering a better way for people, process and technology to work together. work can work better. with xerox. i'i've been an elementary school teacher for 16 years. it is really difficult to afford living here in san francisco. i went into foster care my freshman year of high school. i think there was like 9 people living in a 3-bedroom house. claudia: 40% of the mission rock housing will be for low- and middle-income families. there will even be housing for people like micaela who are coming out of the foster-care system. micaela: after i left the foster-care system, i realized that i just couldn't do it on my own. not knowing where you guys are gonna go that night and just stay, like, it sucked not knowing that. mission rock -- it's completely different from anywhere that i've lived. it looks so much prettier. the atmosphere -- it just gives off possibilities. like, i have a chance. i can print out like six different ways to get to work. i would be proud to have someone like micaela be my neighbor. i would love to have somebody like claudia be my neighbor. claudia: i feel like it's part of what san francisco should be. 48 past the hour. joining us now, ceo of cak entertainment, branding expert charles copalman. his management agency represents clients including, jlo. adam levine. nicki minaj. >> some other people you might have heard of. diana ross. the four tops. cher. wilson phillips. vanilla ice. new kids on the block. >> he is also the former chairman and ceo of martha stewart living on the media. love her! >> so you know about brands. and i read an article in fast company. you had great tips for brands. one that struck home for me was empty barrels make the most noise so shut up. i love that one. >> the empty barrel, when i did the interview she didn't take the last part of it. the last part is that empty barrels make the most noise so people don't listen to it, but if you listen, that's the key. the key is listening, not talking. i know that's hard for this kind of show. >> yeah. you talk. we're talking about brands. donald trump, ben carson. let's talk about donald trump first. talk about his brand. >> well, his brand obviously, he has been building forever. and it's true. he is strong. he is a leader. he is successful. he is rich. that's his brand. >> very aspirational, right? >> all those attributes are what everybody wants to achieve in their lifetime. i like donald. the one thing i would do if i were donald trump is he also lives the real golden rule doing do unto others as you would have others do unto you. his perception is he is the wrong golden rule but he lives his life do unto others. >> people who know donald know that he actually is a nice guy. >> that's my point. that's the only area that he doesn't project, which i think he needs to, to take it to the next level. >> people that know his family say he's raised these incredible kids. is that part of what you deploy? how do you further that? >> that's certainly -- the measure of a man or a woman, you look at your children, you look at your grandchildren, you know, how -- what are they, how are they. one could give more credit to ivanka or to donald. the truth is he is a very active father. >> his name matches his brand. >> when we talk about how great his kids are. he goes, you know why, they've got a great mom. he says that when nobody is looking. off the camera. >> what would you do about a candidate who, not wearing the microphone, not on tv, not on the record, she is funny, open, has a terrific personality. hillary clinton. and you see her -- >> but the camera is turned on -- >> here is the deal with hillary. her brand is bill clinton. and that's the -- that's the problem. everything else is contrived. everything else looks like it's studied. it's not natural at all. and of course, bill's brand is sincerity. if you can fake that, you've got everything. >> wow! wow and wow. >> talking about sincerity. bernie sanders. what's his brand? >> i think it's real. i think his brand is that he is the champion of the working man. i think he has grown up his life -- >> how important is the authenticity at the end of the day whether you are a politician on stage, a musician on stage, whether you are an actor on broadway? >> truth wins out at the end of the day. >> even in your cynical business. >> even in my cynical business. truth wins out if you are a great songwriter, if you are a great artist. you can't really fake it. you can only fake it up to a point. the truth comes out. you can get lucky. but my mother always said, you know, luck comes to visit. it doesn't come to stay, so you have to make the most of that luck if you've got it. >> isn't that a great line. luck comes to visit, it doesn't come to stay. >> with bernie sanders, can rage, whether it's high octane rage or low-level rage, can rage be a positive in a long, long run? >> you know, most -- most people want to be donald trump. they may not want to have him as president, but they want to be donald trump. his life-style, what he is all about. >> aspirational. >> aspirational, yeah. >> it's aspirational. i don't know whether most people want to be bernie sanders. >> okay. >> they understand what he's talking about. >> sure. >> they actually get it. >> they know he's fighting for them. >> he is their voice. >> so help us out here. help us. >> we need your help. that's why we brought you here. >> britishien carson. talk to us. >> i have been in the music and entertainment business my entire life. this is a true mystery. [ laughter ] >> we brought you to our table. >> we thought you were the guy who knows this stuff. >> i saw tracy chapman in boston at a little club with three people and knew instantly she would be a giant star. my son actually found her. but ben carson? i'm dumbfounded. i don't get it. >> isn't it that he's kind and civilized at a time when people think politics is neither of those things? >> yeah. but not to be trump but he is asleep. i mean, what -- >> asleep? >> ben, they're calling you on the red phone. ben? i mean, it doesn't work. >> it's like donald said the other day. ben carson in first place in an iowa poll. we tried to call him but he was asleep. >> that's for another show. i'll figure it out and come back. >> we're going to give you this assignment and call you back next week and talk to you about ben carson. the thing is, it is massive, it is real. it's out there. >> it is. >> it's inexplicable? >> if you had a music act with that sort of grass-roots support you'd sign him in a second. >> cerebral is the only possible answer. >> charles coppellman, atmospher thank you very much. it takes a lot of. to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. when a moment turns romantic why pause to take a pill? 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>> i can't wait for you to come back and explain ben carson to us. >> we have nothing to do. >> a true challenge. >> i think it's that he's so nice and everyone thinks politicians are animals. >> i learned that i'm in line with charles koppelman on ben carson. >> the good thing about comcast. they say if you want to get rid of drugs in america have comcast distribute them. >> okay! >> maybe charles won't be coming back next week after all. because i love comcast. >> it will be on "the view." >> he'll be on abc on "the view." >> it's time actually for charles to go over to "the view." "msnbc live" is coming up next. call it the battle in boulder. gearing up for another showdown in the race for president. this is the stage where the top ten republican candidates will be facing off tonight. ben carson, the new gop frontrunner. has been in large part marginalized in past debates. that no doubt will change. first time donald trump enters a debate without, well, bragging rights. there are four polls now knocking him out of the top spot in the state of iowa. here is how he's handling it so far. >> until iowa came along, i said every poll. and then iowa came -- what the hell are you people doing to me? from the time i announced i've been at the top of the polls, almost at the top. you know, we're doing well. iowa, will you get your numbers up, please.

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