public gatherings of more than two people were banned and you had to stay two metres away from people you did not live with. the police could find you if you did not follow the rules. the inquiry will also hear from priti patel, who was home secretary during the period and the human rights group liberty. the home secretary during the pandemic and lockdown lobbied for stricter border controls in the early stages of the pandemic in an attempt to prevent the virus reaching the uk but she was overruled. despite criticism to the way the police enforced lockdown rules she defended her approach during her time rules she defended her approach during hertime in rules she defended her approach during her time in office. it you are watching bbc news and we are now going hoping to go live soon to the covid inquiry in london. edible be speaking on our healing from priti patel, home secretary during the pandemic as well as martin hewitt who was chair of the national police chiefs' council, will take you live now to those pictures. that is martin hewitt giving his evidence to the inquiry. you martin hewitt giving his evidence to the inuui . ., ~' , martin hewitt giving his evidence to theinaui . ., ~' , the inquiry. you kindly provided the inuui the inquiry. you kindly provided the inquiry with — the inquiry. you kindly provided the inquiry with a _ the inquiry. you kindly provided the inquiry with a witness _ the inquiry. you kindly provided the inquiry with a witness statement. inquiry with a witness statement which will come on screen now, we see it as a statement headed a corporate witness statement on behalf of the national police chiefs' council that you made. it is. chiefs' councilthat you made. it is. if ou chiefs' councilthat you made. it is. if you look _ chiefs' councilthat you made. it is. if you look at _ chiefs' councilthat you made. it is. if you look at paragraph - chiefs' councilthat you made. it is. if you look at paragraph one, ou is. if you look at paragraph one, you exulain _ is. if you look at paragraph one, you exolain you _ is. if you look at paragraph one, you explain you regard - is. if you look at paragraph one, you explain you regard this - is. if you look at paragraph one, you explain you regard this as i is. if you look at paragraph one, - you explain you regard this as being a corporate witness statement. looking at paragraph two, we can see what you mean to convey by that term which is the information is drawn firstly from your own knowledge and experience but also on the basis of material provided by staff within the mpc c and other policing bodies. that is the basis on which the statement was drafted but with that in mind we do not need to go to it but on the final page there is a statement of truth indicating you believe on that basis the facts contained in the statement are true, does that remain the position. it does. a does that remain the position. it does- a few _ does that remain the position. it does. a few brief _ does that remain the position. it does. a few brief questions - does that remain the position. it| does. a few brief questions about our does. a few brief questions about your career _ does. a few brief questions about your career and _ does. a few brief questions about your career and it _ does. a few brief questions about your career and it is _ does. a few brief questions about your career and it is correct - does. a few brief questions about your career and it is correct that l your career and it is correct that your career and it is correct that you joined the police, kent police in 1993. ., . you joined the police, kent police in 1993-- you _ you joined the police, kent police in 1993.- you transferred | you joined the police, kent police i in 1993.- you transferred to in 1993. correct. you transferred to the metropolitan _ in 1993. correct. you transferred to the metropolitan police _ in 1993. correct. you transferred to the metropolitan police and - in 1993. correct. you transferred to the metropolitan police and 2005 l in 1993. correct. you transferred to i the metropolitan police and 2005 and remained with them and reached the rank of assistant commissioner. correct. in rank of assistant commissioner. correct. :: ' rank of assistant commissioner. correct. ::' , rank of assistant commissioner. correct. ii' , ., correct. in 2015 is it right that uber appointed _ correct. in 2015 is it right that uber appointed the _ correct. in 2015 is it right that uber appointed the vice-chairj correct. in 2015 is it right that l uber appointed the vice-chair of correct. in 2015 is it right that - uber appointed the vice-chair of the uber appointed the vice—chair of the national police council. that uber appointed the vice-chair of the national police council.— national police council. that is not a full-time — national police council. that is not a full-time role _ national police council. that is not a full-time role but _ national police council. that is not a full-time role but there - national police council. that is not a full-time role but there are - national police council. that is not a full-time role but there are two. a full—time role but there are two vice chairs — a full—time role but there are two vice chairs and supporting the full-time _ vice chairs and supporting the full—time chess i was one of those. you served — full—time chess i was one of those. you served in that capacity for four years until 2019, would it be correct you when doing a job at the metropolitan police and parallel to your role with the pcc. mr; metropolitan police and parallel to your role with the pcc.— metropolitan police and parallel to your role with the pcc. my main “0b was with the — your role with the pcc. my main “0b was with the meta- d your role with the pcc. my main “0b was with the meta- path i your role with the pcc. my main “0b was with the meta- path and i was with the meta— path and whispered as an aside i undertook the role _ whispered as an aside i undertook the role of— whispered as an aside i undertook the role of vice—chair. i was assistant _ the role of vice—chair. i was assistant commissioner on the management board during that period but from _ management board during that period but from 2014—19 was one of the assistant — but from 2014—19 was one of the assistant commissioners. in but from 2014-19 was one of the assistant commissioners. in 2019 uber appointed — assistant commissioners. in 2019 uber appointed as _ the chair of the npcc full—time and served in that role until this year and when you ceased and the spring of this year that you retire from the police force. in of this year that you retire from the police force.— of this year that you retire from the police force. in april, correct. it would be _ the police force. in april, correct. it would be apparent _ the police force. in april, correct. it would be apparent from - the police force. in april, correct. it would be apparent from the - the police force. in april, correct. i it would be apparent from the brief history that you were chair of the npcc for the entire period of the pandemic and that is the time period i will focus on in my questions today. you provide us with a fair amount of detail about the make—up and workings of the npcc and witness statement which we are grateful for and we have in writing, i will not go into too much detail now because as you also describe in the statement the npcc as so many other institutions had to act in a very exceptional way during the pandemic, is that correct?— exceptional way during the pandemic, is that correct? yes. some of the thins is that correct? yes. some of the thin . s we is that correct? yes. some of the things we will— is that correct? yes. some of the things we will discuss _ is that correct? yes. some of the things we will discuss today do not fall neatly into the type of work the npcc does at other times. {line fall neatly into the type of work the npcc does at other times. one of the npcc does at other times. one of the core rules — the npcc does at other times. one of the core rules is _ the npcc does at other times. one of the core rules is to _ the npcc does at other times. one of the core rules is to coordinate - the core rules is to coordinate nationat— the core rules is to coordinate national activity, every police service — national activity, every police service in _ national activity, every police service in the uk is a legally independent and the npcc brings together the interests of the chief officers _ together the interests of the chief officers and those organisations and when _ officers and those organisations and when there are issues which require national— when there are issues which require national coordination that is a row the npcc— national coordination that is a row the npcc undertakes but never look to the _ the npcc undertakes but never look to the scale of dealing with covid—19. to the scale of dealing with covid-19-_ to the scale of dealing with covid-19. �*, , , ., covid-19. let's pick up some of those points — covid-19. let's pick up some of those points you _ covid-19. let's pick up some of those points you have - covid-19. let's pick up some of those points you have made, . covid-19. let's pick up some of| those points you have made, we covid-19. let's pick up some of - those points you have made, we are looking at paragraph four, the npcc core function as as a national coordinating body representing all uk police forces and you mentioned the association of chief police officers which many of us will remember, the successor body to acpo. paragraph five, it is important to bear in mind that the npcc represents all uk police forces, we are a uk inquiry, we have had a number of issues relating to the other nations, scotland, wales and northern ireland, it is right that policing is a devolved matter in northern ireland and scotland but does it remain the position that those police forces are represented by part of the npcc. it is those police forces are represented by part of the npcc.— by part of the npcc. it is the role and both those _ by part of the npcc. it is the role and both those countries - by part of the npcc. it is the role and both those countries but - by part of the npcc. it is the role| and both those countries but they are fully _ and both those countries but they are fully participating members of npcc _ are fully participating members of npcc. ., ., ., . ., npcc. you have touched on the function in _ npcc. you have touched on the function in very _ npcc. you have touched on the function in very general- npcc. you have touched on the function in very general terms i npcc. you have touched on the l function in very general terms of npcc, but in summary is it fair to say it is one of a group of national bodies designed to provide national leadership and coordination to local police forces that all have operational independence. yes. and for resent operational independence. yes. and for present purposes, the npcc has as one of its rules producing national standards thematic policies and so on. covering a range of different policing matters. that is done in conjunction _ different policing matters. that is done in conjunction with - different policing matters. that is done in conjunction with the - different policing matters. that is i done in conjunction with the college of noticing _ done in conjunction with the college of policing which owns standards within _ of policing which owns standards within policing but works closely within policing but works closely with the — within policing but works closely with the npcc where we would be driving _ with the npcc where we would be driving will be felt those policies were _ driving will be felt those policies were required so it is a joint working _ were required so it is a joint working between the college of noticing — working between the college of policing and national police chiefs' councit _ policing and national police chiefs' council. fits policing and national police chiefs' council. �* . . policing and national police chiefs' council. �* , ., ., ., council. as at the role of the npcc to commission _ council. as at the role of the npcc to commission the _ council. as at the role of the npcc to commission the college - council. as at the role of the npcc to commission the college to - council. as at the role of the npcc to commission the college to workj council. as at the role of the npcc i to commission the college to work up policies? to commission the college to work up olicies? . . . to commission the college to work up olicies? ., , ., ., ., ._ to commission the college to work up olicies? ., , ., ., policies? that is a good way of describing _ policies? that is a good way of describing it _ policies? that is a good way of describing it so _ policies? that is a good way of describing it so npcc - policies? that is a good way of. describing it so npcc represents policies? that is a good way of- describing it so npcc represents the chief officers, they will be working and thinking about those issues most important _ and thinking about those issues most important for policing and when you want policies and particularly approved practice which defines how police _ approved practice which defines how police should do what we do then that would be what with the college of policing. do that would be what with the college of olicinr. .,, that would be what with the college of olicinr. . , that would be what with the college of olicin.. . , of policing. do those policies come back to the — of policing. do those policies come back to the npcc _ of policing. do those policies come back to the npcc to _ of policing. do those policies come back to the npcc to be _ of policing. do those policies come back to the npcc to be signed - of policing. do those policies come back to the npcc to be signed off. of policing. do those policies come | back to the npcc to be signed off on approved? the back to the npcc to be signed off on a- roved? ., . , ., ., ~ approved? the main decision-making bod within approved? the main decision-making body within npcc — approved? the main decision-making body within npcc and _ approved? the main decision-making body within npcc and policing - approved? the main decision-making body within npcc and policing is - approved? the main decision-making body within npcc and policing is the l body within npcc and policing is the chief constables council which brings— chief constables council which brings together the chief constable or commissioner for the individual forces _ or commissioner for the individual forces and — or commissioner for the individual forces and that as well as a body the service — forces and that as well as a body the service makes its key decisions, that process — the service makes its key decisions, that process is run by the national police _ that process is run by the national police juice — that process is run by the national police juice council and cheered by the chair— police juice council and cheered by the chair of— police juice council and cheered by the chair of npcc which was my role for 40 _ the chair of npcc which was my role for 40 years — the chair of npcc which was my role for 40 years. —— for years. the chair of npcc which was my role for40 years. —— foryears. —— the chair of npcc which was my role for 40 years. —— for years. —— four years _ for 40 years. -- for years. -- four ears. ~ ., ., .,. years. we have referred to the fact the individual _ years. we have referred to the fact the individual forces _ years. we have referred to the fact the individual forces have - the individual forces have operational independence and you emphasise in this part of your statement that the npcc cannot direct forces to act in any particular way.— direct forces to act in any particular way. direct forces to act in any articularwa . ., , . ., particular way. that is correct and a really important _ particular way. that is correct and a really important point, - particular way. that is correct and a really important point, the - particular way. that is correct and | a really important point, the npcc is not _ a really important point, the npcc is not a _ a really important point, the npcc is not a statutory body, it is an agreement— is not a statutory body, it is an agreement amongst all chief officers but in _ agreement amongst all chief officers but in each individual force area operational direction and control rests— operational direction and control rests with — operational direction and control rests with the chief constable and whatever — rests with the chief constable and whatever the political governance is on an _ whatever the political governance is on an individual police area that nray— on an individual police area that may he — on an individual police area that may he a — on an individual police area that may be a police and crime commissioner but i would day ultimately that rests with the chief constable. tr}r ultimately that rests with the chief constable. , ., , , ., ~ ., ultimately that rests with the chief constable. , ., , , n ., ., constable. try and speak to more slowly and _ constable. try and speak to more slowly and giving _ constable. try and speak to more slowly and giving us _ constable. try and speak to more slowly and giving us your- constable. try and speak to more | slowly and giving us your answers. you discuss and a little detail and your statement the arrangements and procedures that apply where a particular police force or chief constable decides not to follow the guidance of the npcc on the chief constable of the council perhaps, can i ask you whether that is of much relevance to us, what we will explore as the high level guidance the npcc college provided to police forces during the pandemic in particular in the context of enforcing covid regulations, was that in fact any deliberate divergence amongst police forces from that guidance? he. divergence amongst police forces from that guidance?— divergence amongst police forces from that guidance? no, that fails to the ability _ from that guidance? no, that fails to the ability for— from that guidance? no, that fails to the ability for a _ from that guidance? no, that fails to the ability for a chief— from that guidance? no, that fails to the ability for a chief constable | to the ability for a chief constable to the ability for a chief constable to derogate from a decision taken at council, _ to derogate from a decision taken at council, in _ to derogate from a decision taken at council, in normal circumstances was very reat— council, in normal circumstances was very real in _ council, in normal circumstances was very real in relation to covid i do not think— very real in relation to covid i do not think it — very real in relation to covid i do not think it is relevant for the purposes— not think it is relevant for the purposes of what the inquiry is seeking — purposes of what the inquiry is seeking to understand. let�*s purposes of what the inquiry is seeking to understand. let's move on to a bit more — seeking to understand. let's move on to a bit more detail _ seeking to understand. let's move on to a bit more detail about _ seeking to understand. let's move on to a bit more detail about precisely i to a bit more detail about precisely what the npcc did during the pandemic, for these purposes f.c. can go to page eight of your statement, paragraph 31. you make the point the pandemic posed a wide—ranging of challenges in every aspect of private and public life and you go on to say it was no different from the police, the pandemic affected every part of our work and every part of the service, was that the position?— was that the position? absolutely, it was