tonight. she's the chair of the usually obscure senate rules committee -- >> i know where you're going with this one. >> it did the weirdest thing today. the senate rules committee voted to change a senate rule and so we've got to hear about that. don't do that every day. >> they sure don't. and it's a good tease, lawrence. >> it took the madness of tuberville to provoke the senate rules committee to actually vote to change a senate rule. >> the madness of tuberville could be a three by bbc series but unfortunately it's an american drama playing out in real life, right here. >> it will be the title of a limited series at some point. >> i am sure. >> thanks, alex. today, in response to leaks of prosecution video interviews in the case of georgia versus don trump and multiple codefendants, just attorney fani willis did exactly, and i mean exactly, what joyce vance predicted she would do last night on this program. >> there wasn't a formal protective order in place that i think we'll see fani willis make a request for a one and ask that there be no further leaks following this. >> and? unsurprisingly for viewers in this program, 11:08 pm follows prosecution team filed an emergency renewed motion for protective order over discovery materials. the motion says that the state, quote, on an emergency basis renews its prior request that this court enter a protective order overall discovery materials produced by the state to any defendant in this matter in order to protect witnesses and to safeguard sensitive and confidential information. september 27th, the prosecution actually filed a motion for protective order for the judge has not yet ruled on. fani willis's motion today says that the leaked video recordings, quote, were not released by the state to any party other than the defendants charged in the indictment pursuant to the discovery process as required by law. the release of these confidential video recordings is clearly intended to intimidate witnesses in this case, subjecting them to harassment and threats prior to trial, constitutes in the right communication about the facts of this case with codefendants and witnesses, and obstruct the administration of justice in violation of the conditions of release imposed on each defending. we showed you some of the video that was leaks at this hour last night. tonight we have more of that video from the washington post. here is trump codefendant attorney sydney powell, who has pleaded guilty in the case, describing a meeting at the white house on december 21st. >> okay, what happened? >> there was a big shouting match, in which rudy called me every name in the book and i was the worst lawyer he had ever seen in his life, there were no circumstances under which he would put me on anything. he called me a [bleep] and i don't know what all. and that's pretty much i remember about that when. >> and who did you go with? did you go by yourself? >> yeah. >> and was -- already there? >> yes. >> was really already there? >> i think so. >> and so mark meadows, he's a woman contacted you and said hey, come? >> i think so. >> so even a few days after, december 18th, presidents chief of staff still reaching out to you about presumably the election? >> if that was the 21st. i would've thought it was before that. >> you had said before, if you got to the point where the facts were telling him you've lost he within bow out. that was either what you he said to you and says that you got. >> yeah. he said something very clearly to that effect. >> but then on the 18th, the only real justification that he is giving you to why he is not bowing out is that his instincts tell him that he won. >> that in the evidence that i had showed him. >> trump codefendant scott hall, a bail bondsman, who has pleaded guilty, told prosecutors about chartering a plane in georgia to fly to coffee county georgia where, according to his guilty plea, he interfered with voting equipment and data. >> i looked at it on the map, and it's a long way across the county, and i had a friend of mine who occasionally -- these little jets and i called him and he said four [bleep] and giggles, what would it cost me to read to play into coffee county. i want to see how this [bleep] works. and he made phone call and he got me in touch with somebody and i think they said for $10,000 we can fly you down and wait and fly you back. a lot of freaking money, but at the end of the day i said [bleep], i currently see the process. >> you were the cost of that alone? >> i did. part my french but i [bleep] -- >> today in washington d.c., the washington post's global women's summit, judge attorney willis said this about the leak. >> so my team in a particular case that those got all out, we had already filed to have a protective order where discovery and the case would not get out. so surprising, no. disappointing, yes. in fact today, from here, i was with my team making sure that emergency motion got filed so that that motion we had already filed is heard immediately because i think i'm not happy that it was released. even though your colleague got to do your story. [laughter] >> can you say definitively to the audience that it was not your office who leaked this? >> absolutely not my office. i was open records request we got for that. from you and every outlet. no, we are not going to release information, which is why so long ago we filed that motion already. now we're just asking that the judge ruled on it, expedited. >> and eternity willis said, in the r.i.c.o. prosecution of donald trump and his codefendants, she is trying to get to the top of the latter. >> i want to get to the top of the latter. [laughter] the dea in fulton county always wants to get to the top of the latter. it leads you to all the way to the top of the ladder, making sure that everyone involved in the criminal enterprise is held responsible. so often a criminal case as you will see what people would think of as you say commonly, the street boys they're selling the dope. but who is running those young men that are selling the dope? and so if you use rico you can often get the whole chain and not just hold the people at the bottom responsible. >> leading off our discussion tonight, andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former chief of the criminal division of the eastern district of new york. he is the co-host of the msnbc podcast prosecuting donald trump. also with us, neal katyal, former acting u.s. solicitor general, and host of the podcast courtside. both an msnbc legal analyst. and gwen keyes, former district attorney of dekalb county, georgia. and gwen, as the georgia criminal procedure here with us tonight, what was your reaction to how the district attorney's office reacted today? >> they reacted exactly how i expected them to react. as was said, this protective order was, this request for a protective order was previously filed in anticipation of an unfortunate event like what we saw yesterday. and the dea and her team have always prioritized the integrity of this case and the security and safety of their witnesses and all of those involved. that is what the protective order was for. and we see now why it is necessary. >> andrew weissmann, what are you hearing in these tapes, in the actual evidence in these tapes? >> first i want to say a friend of mine was in the audience and listen to fani willis and said she really brought the house down. she was incredibly impressive. people said she just handled herself amazingly. quite a great performance in terms of fielding questions. what i am hearing so far is that it's really important for viewers to separate out the different people. there are four people who have pleaded guilty and it's so far sounds like mr. hall and miss ellis are truly cooperating and are giving information that could be used at a trial and would be potential important government witnesses, whether in a state case or federal case or both. i think that even the clip that you just played from miss powell and information from mr. chesebro, i think it seems quite clear that there is some what we used to call false exculpatory statements. they don't seem like they are fully cooperating. they are saying things that are, i think, harmful to the states case, helpful to donald trump. there was a lot of questions when they pled guilty, whether they were fully cooperating because their agreements were not like alice's. there are signs of that i think in the information that has leaked out. >> and neal katyal you are with us last night when these leaks were very fresh. you saw after that stage harmful evidence for donald trump that would work against him, but the other important thing about these tapes is, these are selected portions of these tapes. that were leaked. none of them were leaked in their entirety, and so, neil, we don't know the full context of these interviews. >> that's exactly. there's a whole discussion now, people are claiming fani willis and her office for leaking. it is true what, and who is saying, that the evidence itself is really important. it estimates trump's mens rhea when it says, when jen ellis says, for example, a trump's gonna stay in power no matter what, didn't care if you won or lost, that's all devastating to trump. so the evidence helps the prosecution a ton. but the leak of the evidence occurred yesterday doesn't help the prosecution. the leak only intimidates witnesses, scares them off from testimony, selectively -- as the evidence andrew pointed to that might not be so bad for trump in the like. but there's absolutely no reason for fani willis to have lead. if she would present this court in later, it would help. or she is, by the way, crushing it. please deal after plea deal, including people in trump's inner circle. the only person who's desperate here of the criminal defendants, including donald trump. that's why i think if you have to start wondering where this leak comes from, there's no doubt in my mind it's not coming from the prosecutors. >> gwen keyes, what do you expect here in the hearing on this, which the judge has now, on an emergency basis, scheduled for tomorrow afternoon? >> well, i think the d.a.'s team is going to possibly replay this show and several of the others that aired last night to demonstrate how this information was leaked and possibly what the purpose to either undermine the d.a.'s case or worse, intimidate witnesses. obviously the judge also was going to prioritize the integrity of this case along with the safety and security of witnesses. and i think you'll see some very strong arguments to ensure that some sort of protective order is put into place. so this information is released into public in advance of trial. >> andrew, what's the argument, what's the defense argument against a protective order on this kind of material? >> it's a standard that the government needs to meet here is they need to show that there is a substantial risk of harm or economic injury. and so i think they're going to be questioning the quantum of truth that the state puts up. but i think that this is an area where fani willis's argument tomorrow and jack smith's argument in the d.c. court of appeals, to sustain the gag order, really coincide. because for someone like gianna ellis or mr. hall, with a taped information that was leaked has them giving information that is harmful to donald trump, that it is very hard for the defense to say that there isn't a substantial risk to them, and that is why the d.a., i think, is very appropriate to seek this order. because you do not have a more dangerous defendant than donald trump in all of his criminal cases and his civil cases. this has been repeatedly found by the judges overseeing these matters. >> district sure he will listen washington journal made a point that i have made about all these cases, which is the appeals, if there are convictions in any of these on trump cases, the appeals will go on for years. so a guilty verdict will just be the beginning of an appeal. but she said much more than that about the actual scheduling that she foresees for this trial. let's listen to what she said about that. >> i think a case will be on appeals for years. okay. but i think that in terms of i believe in that case there will be a trial. i believe the trial will take many months. and i don't expect that we will conclude until the winter or the very early part of 2025. >> so there's a possibility the defendants would be on trial up to including an election season, an election day, and maybe even an inauguration day? >> i don't, when making decisions about cases to bring, consider any election cycle or election season. it does not go in the calculus. what goes in the calculus is, this is the law, these are the facts, and if the facts show you violated the law, that charges are brought. it will be a really sad day if, when you're under investigation for the shoplifting charge, you could go run for city council and an investigation would stop. that's foolishness. it's foolishness at any level. >> neal katyal, what do you make of that potential timetable? >> i'm very disappointed in the district attorney on this. the idea that it's going to be more than a year for a trial to occur, that's just not the way criminal trials work. look at sam bateman fried who was indicted an already indicted a. like the fact that trump is gonna get a year, it's really dangerous. here's why. it's true that part presidents can't pardon themselves from state crimes. that's absolutely right. the president can't order the district attorney, local district attorney to drop a prosecution or drop in appeal the way he can arguably the u.s. justice department. but, there's a very serious constitutional argument that a state cannot jail the president of united states or launch a criminal conviction. it can delay trials and defer them until after he leaves office, but to allow one state to do that is to undo the nations political will. so if he's not brought to trial and convicted by the time of inauguration day, it very well may be that he will escape from justice if not for the next four years, perhaps even more than that. so it is a really problematic timetable and i'm very worried about it. >> gwen keyes, is a timetable we just heard mostly because this is a r.i.c.o. case? because when you look at those trial timetables of large r.i.c.o. cases in georgia, it does take up this kind of time, including extraordinary months of time just on jury selection. >> well, usually rico cases are complex and they do take several months. i think the big question in this matter is when will that r.i.c.o. case start? and i think because there are so many other criminal matters and civil matters that involve several different defendants, what the d.a. is talking about is, she's not gonna be able to start the case in march the way she originally said she was ready to go in the beginning. and so she is now going to have to go behind several of these federal cases, which, as i understand, would take primacy over the state case and because of that her trial wouldn't start until later in 2024, possibly winter of 2024. >> gwen keyes, andrew weissmann, neal katyal, thank you all very much for starting off our discussion tonight. coming up, 18 republican state attorneys general joined the trump criminal defense team today. that peculiar story is next. y is next. with this tomorrow. you won't. it's ripe in here. my eyes are watering. look how crusty this is. ugh, it's just too much. not with this. good advice. when stains and odors pile up, it's got to be tide. teeth sensitivity is so common. it immediately feels like somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. and my patients say you know doc, it really works. have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? 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