Transcripts For CNBC Worldwide Exchange 20120229 : vimarsana

CNBC Worldwide Exchange February 29, 2012



2014. and the economic growth slows more than expected in two years. rise in inflation and european demand takes a toll on the quarter gdp. warm welcome to you. the start of "worldwide exchange" as we start down to the latest offering of ecb cheap liquidities. as you can see, the dow jones stoxx 600, by around 603, something of that mag in i attitude. we had employment numbers out as well. the jobless rate was zero it says here. the adjusted jobless was down 26,000 in jan. they saw the adjusted jobless rate falling by 5,000. so once again german employment going a little bit better. jobless rate 6.8% as expected although some saw the february jobless rate at 6.7. so maybe not quite the fall we expected. a lot is going to depend. let's take the euro down to the session lows. you can see it at 1.3457. a lot, of course, depends what happens with the ltfr. banks this morning have been one of the better performers. there we are one hour into the trading sessions. banks up 1.2%. as far as the bund markets are concerned, we'll see if we can keep it down. after a pretty good auction yesterday, yields down at 5.3%. bund's 1.8%. still substantially low levels. will the results of the ltro have any impact? nymex after big falls. trying to claw back. we have been over 124. so quite high levels. christine's got the wrap for us in asia. >> i do, indeed, ross. it's rising by, of course, the ecb. that helped on some of the risks and driving some of the commodity currency high. data coming from japan and south korea. if we take a look at japan right now ahead of the ltr operation, investments kind of took profits, so markets ending a little flat today, failing to hold on to the 9800 level. we have shanghai market up 1%. we had, of course, property counters weighing on the market and the hong kong market helped to underpin. australian market up 0.8%. gdp data coming in at 6.1%, much lower than expected. everybody was expected 6.4%. slowest pace in more than two years, so that seems to be some of the stories driving asian markets today, ross. big day. >> an hour and 15 minutes they're going to release the results of their second refinance operation. it's offering unlimited funds to the area's banks at the rate of around 1%. it comes, of course, two months after ltro won which is the biggest lending operation in the bank's 13-year history. julia is looking at that and what it might mean today. julia. >> thanks, ross. i should point out that the ecb justs a lot of these ltro's on a much shorter term. it's relatively chief, 1% per annum. now, obviously estimates have varied around the amounts we expect to see drawn down. in fact, i've given you 1 trillion euros. the median has centered around 500 billion euros, around what we saw the last time, 489 billion euros. if it comes in around that, it will become a nonevent for the market. it's based not just on the refinancing needs of the european banks but also might grade that. we need to defined what the met demand might be. it's expected to be slightly higher, around 300 billion euros this time around. i want to reference the xetra cac briefly. that might boost demand this time around too. talking positive aspects, i'll take you through some of those too. obviously there's been an undeniable boost. it's lowered the borrowing rates. we've also seen a significant rally in the equity markets since december 21st when we got that original ltro done. i'm showing you the stoxx 600 here. 15% rally. it's not just in the equity markets. in the credit markets, too, the financials, 100 basis points tighter since that december 21st date and we've also seen spreads tightening in the debt markets too. now italy and spain have been the key beneficially. we've seen the yield curves steepen dramatically. i'm showing you the tenure here. it's not about the short-term debt. we've also seen ten-year yields come in around 250 basis points. of course, the italian auction yesterday told the positive benefits too. before i get carried away, i'll put forth some of the cons, too, of that. obviously it's scaled up since that. i can show you quick charts of that too. obviously some concern about how much of this cash is being put to work. the ec b argued that it's not necessarily the ltro. the bank does tend to support that reputational risk. some of the stronger banks concerned about looking at requiring too much ecb liquidity but also their investors all angry investors with the fact that they come subordinated to the claims of the ecb. saying yesterday they're not going to access this ltro. longer term, is inflation going to be an issue? possibly, but for now the key is anchored. is the cash actually flowing out to people that actually need credit like corporates and to individuals? now, obviously we saw a lot pick up. but analysts point out to me it's going to take several quarters to impact the data. all talk about the fact that the ecb lending survey in january of this year showed that despite the fact that banks were aware that this ltro, second ltro was going to take place, they were still anticipating tightening lending conditions. certainly a condition there. i want to show you just where the demand was in the last ltro, according to expectations. italy and spain take 50% according to ing's estimates. again, we'll watch. 523 banks last time. keep to see how many access the ltro this time around. now we're going to head over to frankfurt and talk to silvia who has the latest. silv silvia. >> reporter: at the moment we're in the realm of speculation. as you said before, speculation and what mario draghi said, basically around the same level we were last time. somewhere between 400 billion and 500 billion. that's, of course, the topline figu figure we're looking for. what does that mean. if we have a higher expected volume, does that bode good news? does that mean the banks are ready to pass on liquidity to the so-called real economy at a time when, of course, the ecb sees and many other indicators poichblt in that direction that the eurozone economies are stabilizing, maybe even cautiously picking up in some countries? so there could be a demand for credit there, and that's indeed what we hear, at least from the smes, from the mid size and small companies that do not have direct access to the capital markets in the eurozone and unlike other regions in the u.s., to some extenlts in tt in. some of the smaller companies depend on borrowing banking, and if these credit lines dry up and that has been an indication over the past few months or so, half a year or so, then, of course, there's a fee credit crunch. that's the last thing they want. does it mean good news or does it mean bad news? does it mean the banks still need more liquidity and continue to sit on it? i thing the interpretation of the numbers is going to mean more than the actual number in the end. >> at that point, we'll bring in our guest. thanks, silvia. let's pick up on that last point, alberto. if we get the consensus number, how do you define that as, you know, will people want to trade on that? is that a good number? >> i thing to have a positive knee-jerk reaction, we need 500 billion. it's been slightly above other surveys. i do think it will take time before it gets passed on to small businesses. european banks are very large. they're more than 300% of gdp unlike in other countries. so for this monetary policy action to work it will take several quarters. it works as a carry trade. that helps. but it doesn't necessarily filter through the economy immediately through smaller firms like we were mentioning before. >> it will take a while. is this a bit like qe -- you know, the more you do it, the sort of less impact it has? >> i don't think so this time around. the first one was used a little for refinancing but this is definitely a big qe and i hope it's a big fwhum ber. it onto take one or two or three years of doing that to recapitalize your balance sheet, build that to the one capital that will help build healthy banks like we're seeing in the u.s. now. so i'm very optimistic. >> you want as big a number as possible. i think so. so does mario draghi. this is a time for the banks. >> christine? >> hi, this is christine. just to follow up, what rate do you expect this ltro -- which banks do you think will take up this? >> our estimation is 400 billion to 500 billion. there are some collateral effect, however, and we receive some division across the banks who say, no, we're not going do it and buy sovereign bonds. the larger banks, they're skeptic skeptical. the others, smaller banks, instead, are taking up much more, the banks in spand italy. they're increasing their southern debt. the italian banks 10% more over the same period. smaller banks have issued more than 40 billion of state-governed bonds themselves. so there's a bit of a fracture. also at the national central bank level, only national central banks are accepting loans at the collateral level i mean you mentioned the stats. have we made banks in italy and spain, have we worsened their risk profile because they've taken this money and gorged on more of their own government debt. unless you think we've cleared it, have we made the banks worse? >> that's exactly the point. can you solve a solvency problem in the sovereign or the banks within the liquidity? if you carry trade, if you have one trillion euros at00 basis point, you make 30 billion per year, they need to get to to recapitalize is 115. it takes three or more years to get there just with a carry trade and banks are taking on more and more sovereign risk. in many cases like this chart, it's 5 or 10% of their assets, so it's higher than their equity level. so this risk, making them a levered instrument, a levered name on sovereign risk, unless you solve -- >> they're now subordinate potentially to the ecb. if the ecb starts buying portuguese debts after what happening in greece with ecb taking up profits, i'm not sure investors would be willing to follow the ecb. the knee-jerk reaction is positive. we have been constructive since january, but now we're advising for a bit more caution. >> plenty more to come. it's not just ecb. we've got qe2 all over the place. you can head to our website to explain what an ltro is. go to cnbc.com. also ahead on our program, the countdown wraps up. we'll get to the kick start growth in the eurozone. each bank found it and going into different assets. this has been a bit different in different countries who refinance the real economy. i look at her, and i just want to give her everything. yeah, you -- you know, everything can cost upwards of...[ whistles ] i did not want to think about that. relax, relax, relax. look at me, look at me. three words, dad -- e-trade financial consultants. so i can just go talk to 'em? 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[ male announcer ] get investing advice for your family at e-trade. exchange." focusing on india's growth, dropping to its slowest passion since 2009 in the file quarter of last year. to tell us more and give us the details shereen. >> we've seen the slowest base of growth for the gdp in the last two years. we've seen it happen on the agriculture side. in india we're dealing with high interest rates. 13 rate hikes by the reserve. now the sense is the reserve bank may, in fact, have to move faster when it comes to monitoring easing. it will be revealed on the 15th of march just a day before the union budget is revealed. they're building around the bunt and what finance minister is going to announce by way of reform, there's a lot of emphasis on what he could do perhaps to boost infrastructure spending and once, again, get the investment cycle going. a lot of focus on what the central bank, the reserve bank is going to do by way of easing monetary rates and what the finance minister is going to do with the union budget by way of reforms and the spending acceleration. beyond that, services sector, that was the only bright spot really because the service sector growth continues to be higher than what the street had expected. once again contracting. of course, we've seen the agriculture sector also coming in with low growth. as i pointed out, the markets are not really reacting to this. this is the number the street had factored in. we were expecting 6.2%. this is a disappointing number for the indian group story. we're hoping india will be able to do 6.9% for the full year as is the government's estimate. before now, it's back to you. >> shereen, thank you very much. can i get a reaction to this? obviously what's your outlook for emerging markets, particularly india? >> you know what we're seeing here today, it's not just an ltro program, i think the u.s. is also one of the largest providers of the liquidity. quantitative easing, we're all aware of it. there seems to intersomething happened there. frankly look at india, look at china easing their reserve requirements. there's not a central bank in the world that i can think of that's tightening in this market. and if that's the case ultimately it's going to be -- we're going to see things happening that we didn't have last year. ultimately, i thnk 20ink 2012 w tend to be the antithesis of 2011. it will be risk on rather than risk off. with the ipo markets opening again, we'll see our secondaries or we'll see debt markets opening up again. animal spirits starting to kick in. it's people putting money back on the table. so i do think, you know, for the emerging markets, though, however, we do think that the euro and the dollar could become perceived as funding currencies. the agencies look like currencies affecting the growth. they're certainly much less levered. your annual growth of 3% to 4%, greater than elsewhere. so we do believe that asia certainly has something to offer in these markets. >> okay. so asia looks good. but commodities today ahead of the ltro operation getting a bit of a lift. does that mean all the liquidity in the market will find its way and that's will be a good sector to buy into? >> i think it has to. we are in a -- we are in a reflagsary cycle. if we look at asia and the u.s., the banks are largely repaired compared to europe, and the velocity of money to a certain extent is starting to take off, and it's inevitable that we'll see commodities -- risk segmeas will do well. some have broke away from their two-day moving averages. when you get that kind of change, things do well. >> in this rush of -- this sugar rush of liquidity that we've got going around the globe, is credit going -- it bounced back a little. is credit goipgt to become better or not or is bank deleveraging going to continue to outweigh the liquidity rush? >> i think the u.s. and asia have far less prominence, so i agree with robert on that. banks are still 30 plus trillion balance sheets. that's 300,000 gdp, 80% of credit is given by banks and to reactivate that, it would take several quarters, in my view. it's not like the u.s. where banks are 70% of gdp and they got recapitalized. here it would take several years. so i do think the process is a bit slower, and at the end of the day, it is also about growth in the periphery. can you make greece or portugal or spain or italy grow at the same time as doing austerity measures. >> good to see you today. thanks for joining us. alberto gallo joining us. robert sticks around. a posted record earnings for the ninth year running. profit up 11% to just under $6.8 million. they were in line with the estimates a estimates. carolyn's got more in zur rick. >> we knew that hole sum was going to. mainly on its south ak friday can investments. now, as you say, the net loss that holeson did report for the fourth quarter, that was slightly faller than expected. revenues were also stronger than expected at 5.3 billion swiss francs. it was surprisingly strong because the weather conditions in the fourth quarter were more favorable. in terms of the outlook, very optimist optimistic. a rise in building materials in asia, slightly more in the u.s. and stable in europe. ross. >> japan's manufacturing outlook hat jumped. plus we have the latest credit data out of the uk.  this is "worldwide exchange." the headlines from around the globe. the ecb opens the tap once again. it's offering the eurozone bank's another unlimited round of three-year loans. just 45 minutes go until the results of the operation come out with nymex expecting around 500 billion euros to be taken up. while in the u.s., ben bernanke, of course, updates congress on the economy today with investors wondering whether he'll stick to the fed's script to keep rates low until 2014. indian economic growth slows more than expected to its slowest rate in more than two years. rising inflation, weak european demand take a toll on december quarter gdp. well, i've got a bunch of credit data out of the uk. consumer lending up 1.1 -- sorry -- 1.8 billion. that's quite good. net mortgage lending up 1.6 billion. that's the highest since december 2010. mortgage approvals, better than the consensus of 55,000. consumer credit up 0.1 billion pretty weak. it was forecast up 50.2. so net consumer lemding was good. consumer credit, not that great. and m-4 since it began in july of 2009, up 1.9% on the month. so on the whole, stronger -- stronger credit apart from the actual consumer credit figures. now, meanwhile we've been speaking across the banking sectors to find out whether they'll be using the next long-term repowe operation from the ecb. >> it's been key to have the market and to reassure the market, we've gathered extreme scenarios. >> we do not plan to buy a new sovereign bond. this is not a five-year commission. the purpose of this. >> i think you have to keep using the resources to keep refinancing the customers. it is the number one lend eer, especially in france. we want to support it. that's where economic growth is in frachbs and beyond. >> the position is very good at this moment, so we'll discuss internally and decide what to do. but the bank is quite liquid. >> well, that's what some of the bank executives were saying. italian banks took the lion's share of the first three-year reasoning operation followed by french lenders. it highlights the north and south, but will the split be the same this time around. >> we have not decided on whether we participate in the ltro or not. that's something we need to look into it. for us, we don't need the liquidity as we pointed out. so from that perspective, it doesn't make any sense. >> the swedish environment is stable. the stage is very strong. the corporate sector is very strong. and we have a reason for it as well. so for us there is no necessity to grab that money. >> yes. scandinavian banks didn't participate heavily. bridget, in the first round, the ltro was undoubtedly used to plug gaps and stave off a clachlts is there any hopes this time around the money might sort of leap into the wider economy or will it still be part of it once again? >> my own personal view is that it's going to stay on the bank's balance sheets and replace more of the short-term funding inside. at the moment i think there's around a trillion of that being financed from the ecb. probably a similar amount is being put back. the question is this going go back into the real economy. when you look at where that's coming from, where the numbers are coming from, the barrowing tends to be from the southern countries and they probably need to borrow more and refinance themselves more and the depositing that's being done is from germany and the nordic banks. and that basically is saying -- well, some of the better banks there are saying they're not going to use this facility because they can't even place th

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