any appearances on c-span, and it is all free on your computer, any time. it is washington, your way. >> this week marked the 47th anniversary of the assassination of president kennedy. this weekend we will talk with two former secret service agents whose job was to protect the president, on the events of that day, the conspiracy theories about the investigation, and mr. blaine's new book, sunday night on "q&a". nowt idaho's former republican senator and former democratic congressman of kansas discuss how democrats and republicans can work together in congress. this was part of a conference hosted by the bipartisan policy center in new orleans. from tulane university, it is about 45 minutes. >> good afternoon, everybody. welcome back for one of our more interesting session show. we will talk a little bit about a new project at the bipartisan policy center. rather than having an animal lamentation about the frustrations of our system, we thought it was important to talk about the ways we can start to make a meaningful difference. the conference is titled beyond the ballot in making washington work. we have talked about the need for real leadership. we want to talk about a little bit about the structural democracy. there are a lot of ways that you can engage in this conversation. there are many organizations that focused on the metaphysics of campaign finance reform, mandatory voting and other issues that i think a very fascinating. but we think they're not practically realistic. we try to focus on some very discreet issues. some people may call them small balls, but it is my view that not only do we have opportunities to make real difference, but in the world of gridlock that i think we existence, little things can really matter. not only do they matter in the substance of their own experience, but they give the congress, the country, a sense that we can get things done. it is that building that inertia momentum for building things that we humbly call the cops to project. -- the democracy project. we have three co-chairs for that project with us today. we have dan goodman and dirk kempthorn. we are happy to have two members with us in the audience today. hopefully, there will be available to talk a little bit after the discussion. walter isaacson directs the discussion. there has been a lot of concern over the last several hours about the filibuster and how that is undermining our democracy. if i read walters resonate, i would be guilty of that same sin. he is currently the president of the aspen institute. he was president and ceo of cnn. he is a best-selling author. walter, i have the great honor to turn the discussion to you. >> thank you very much. [applause] >> there was a congressional district that included the inner-city, uptown, downtown, and the suburbs. then you have a congressman, somebody who had to be a great congressmen representing a southern district and a co- sponsor of the civil rights bill, and be the type of person who created a center so that the civil rights bill could pass with bipartisan support. after he died, ms. lindy took his seat. but then there was redistricting and you had very polarized districts and you never get someone who could bring people together. when i was in high school, i had the honor of working as an intern for congressman bogs. i used to be the bartender when they used to go to the other side of the capital. it was called the board of education and. people would go there -- certainly, when i was setting up the bar in the afternoon, you would see gerald ford and some of the democratic leaders coming together and doing what they needed to do for a civil rights bill or even a transportation bill. they were working together well lubricated by burn and brand water. if the congress and drank more, they might get along more. we will put aside the third issue and focus on the first two. we were arriving back from somewhere and you came up with this whole proposal. how did you come up with that? >> that is kind of you. we were coming back from an event in texas hosted by president bush's library and president obama was speaking. it was a great day people coming together, putting their differences aside. we talked about why there were not more those days. i was reflecting on our discussion and i was in washington, d.c. more than half my life. i watched it to deteriorate in this hyper-by partisanism. we know democracy is messy. we recognize that it has gotten worse over the past few decades and has become more of a hyper- partisanship. people are more in their extremes in their camps. oftentimes, they didn't even talk to each other. they are in their groups preaching to the -- they do not even talk to each other. they're in their groups preaching to the converted. from my standpoint, as a citizen and an entrepreneur that brings an end internet technology orientation, i was sitting on the sidelines of bemoaning how worse it was getting. so maybe there was something i could do to change the trajectory. we all recognize that it is very complicated and that there are no easy solutions or a quicksilver bullet. it would take a sustained effort. but trying to focus on things like redistricting to bring a fair process, some states are doing this, but most are not. most of the redistricting is around preserving incumbents and the power of that particular party, which does not create a free exchange that would be healthy for democracy. on the stability side, there is a lot that can be done to build bridges between folks who all have the best of intentions, but often get caught up in the day-to-day flow of things and we need to look at structural changes in how the process works with the hope of building some braces again. right now, for a large number people in congress, they're not really relationships with a great level of trust. these guys know it firsthand because they have served in a number positions. they have remarked about how bad it has gotten and we need to do something to move this forward. >> you serve in all levels in a way. what do you see being done and where the best places are for bipartisanship. >> bit is the government closes to the people. it is more accessible. when you're dealing with six council members, does not matter if you're a republican or democrat. you either got the job done i did not. if you did not, they knew what copy shop you're going to and they would talk to you. in a larger universe, it gets more difficult. the relationships that steve referenced, i had the honor of serving on the armed services committee. one day, as a freshman republican senator, because under the impression that you're supposed to go to these hearings, i was the only republican that showed up that day and most of the democrats were that. an american icon was speaking -- john glenn. i listened to him. what i did not realize is that he made the same arguments for the same three years, but he never had the support of his colleagues. then a staffer leave florida and said, do you know that you have the proxy vote of all the republican senators? i said, you're kidding. i seconded the motion. then a voice was from the new guy of the end of the table. they called the roll. they went down the line and they said no. they said, john glenn. he said yes. then they named the republicans and i voted by proxy. and john glenn 1. [laughter] sam nunn immediately adjourned the hearing and the role that of those doorways. i headed back to my office. standing at the end of the hallway was john glenn. as i approached, he said, who are you? [laughter] >> and where had you been? >> apparently, i am your new best friend. that is how we established a friendship. then i brought my efforts with my partner being john glenn. >> how did you come to this? what is your take? >> when i was a freshman member of congress from kansas, i was pushing ethanol, alcohol fuel, the bigger issue here in louisiana. president carter had his energy bill and i can i get an amendment to require some ethanol additive and fuel or whatever it was. i looked at the chairmen and said, "chairman, you really must become interested in alcohol." and he looked at me and said, "son, that has never been a problem." [laughter] i was a congressman and the secretary of agriculture. there are a couple of principles here. one principle is that politics is not beanbag. it is top card and it is fought vigorously and sometimes with a mean spirit and that is nothing new. that has been the case from the beginning of the republic. it is just worse now, i think. the second side of the picture is that there are issues like the golden rule, treating people with respect and dignity, and those are supposed to be things that emanate from our society, whether it is a politics, in the clergy, or in business. for whatever reason, those two spirits have not learned very well together in recent years. there is a lot of causes to it. but there are no incentives in the system right now. to get people to work together. for the lack of incentives, it makes it so that there is no real push for people to try to find common ground on issues. i think that is the greatest problem. they need to become structurally responsible, especially the congress. congress has the lowest approval rating of any institution in america. mark twain said that there was only one criminal class in america and that was the congress. he said that 100 years ago. it really has gotten much worse. the problems are extremely serious in our society. there is a huge amount of anxiety out there. people see a lot of role- playing. they do not see a lot of coming together to solve basic problems. bob dole was for my state. he once said that you have two ears and one mouth so that you can listen twice as much as you talk. he did that very nicely. that is not necessarily always the common principle. this organization, this group, they are great folks. we will spend several months to try to listen and figure out what things we can do to make our system work better. they may not be cosmic things. we will not be able to change the constitution in the next year. but there are smaller things we can do. one thing we can do is try to get people in congress to relate on a social basis. one of the thing the president was encouraged to do was to bring the congress to the white house. mutual respect is one way to get people to trust each other. personal and spousal types of things are really important. if they like each other, they might work with each other on occasion. there are a couple of other things i think we need to do. we need to look at scheduling of congress, the numbers of committees that congressman work at. the whole issue of the senate and the hold that one senator can stop the entire congress from going forward. we will talk about the film star. -- filibuster. one issue has to do with money in politics. that is a big change from 50 years ago. when i ran in 1976, i defeated a congressmen who spent $100,000. today, that would be a race between two million dollars and $5 million today. it diffuses the system and makes it lot less resilient. these people have a whole litany of other issues that we think and maybe help the system, help the process work better. there will be no miraculous cure for this. but for a time, may be improving human relations and the systems in congress will make a political system work better. >> why is redistricting at the heart of this? >> i would not say at the heart, but it is a critical issue. over time, the process of shifting districts around and determining how many seats that each state should have and what is the right to allocate them has always been there and will always be there. but in the past few decades, it has been much more of a precise act of the people who are in power, who have the maps and can draw. they really draw those districts in a way that preserve the incumbent and preserve them as safe districts, whether it be on the democratic side or the republican side. that resulted in a less interesting coming together. sometimes you get punished for coming together. you are playing to the extremes. that coupled with the media and cable television and the internet and blogs and so forth, it creates this noisy environment where everybody is focused on the extreme and talking past each other. it use of the redistricting process, it is complicated. it will vary by states. some states have started to do some interesting things. it will take some time to get a majority of states to do this. there is a majority competitiveness. right now, the incentives are more at the point of the extreme. >> but the incentives of every elected official to create a set district for his or herself, do you think that the anti- incumbency side will say quit treating polarized districts for your base. >> the tea party movement is about a lot of different things. but part of it is to take the government back and kick at the incumbents. i also think it can resonate as we educate people. as we talk about redistricting and gerrymandering and maps and a policy issue that most people do not understand or do not find important, it is a way to educate people about the importance of the issue and galvanize support to take action and it can be a way to create momentum. >> what principles do you think we should use when we draw congressional districts? >> that thinking need to do one that is equitable, that reflects the community, that is not so geographically constructed that it is really clear that it is only done for votes, but instead where do you see sameness? have we join the committee are divided a community? if you divide the community, you divide the country. you can keep them working together. since leaving government, i was laid off as the secretary of the interior. i have been in the boardrooms where we talk about a five-year strategy. if is an invigorating discussion. we talk about what we're trying to accomplish. we talk about what the competition is doing. everyone is united in a discussion. i thought, what would happen in that board room if we simply said, by the way, half of you now have to be of this type and the other half of this persuasion and now you take shots at each other? it would diminish the discourse. it would diminish our effectiveness and the well- being of that corporation. we want that corporation to have a bright future. we want this country to have a bright future so that we can have those same strategic sessions where we think of the best interests of the united states of america. by son-in-law's leaving next week for iraq. we want to make sure that these people who are elected head of civil discourse without becoming discussing and do what is best for the country. >> i was redistricted twice. self preservation is very important to us in our daily lives, whether it is in our business, our family it, or in politics. this is where the politicians get to pick the voters instead of the voters going to pick a politician. the other thing is that the voting rights act as required by law, we have to make sure that we do not diminish the role of minorities in congressional districts. that complicates the issue. i agree with what they have talked about in terms of trying to minimize the and we this and the lack of political reality. >> going back to the original question, i think we have been through five presidents since i have been in washington. each has been elected and thinking they will bring everyone together, but they'll actually have trouble implementing it. my view is they have the best in tensions, but the process bars them from making rope progress. by reducing or are a lot of people with those intentions who, once dropped in to the process, deal with a lot of other challenges and are not able to achieve the objectives they have set out. it is not just about people, but about the process. people do not like to talk about it as much. but i really do think that, if we can fix the underlying process, then we have a lot more opportunity to deal with some of these complicated issues. >> the question is, after a very tough election we just had -- and it was tough. -- can you after that atmosphere, come together? this past weekend, in "the washington post," they said it was a very tough race. they had a full page spread for this thing. they're talking about the lincoln-douglas election. that was a tough election. but that debate was a crystal visioned by very good people about what they felt than believed. but they did it in a civil fashion. two years later, they ran against each other for the president of the united states. lincoln won, but douglas went to that inauguration and told the newspapers of that, if anybody attack abraham lincoln, they attacked him. there was a time for good, vigorous, tough, rough-and- tumble politics. but once that is decided, there is only to do with the people want you to do. this is not to say that you put your principals in escrow. absolutely not. you bring them right out there. but the american public hear you. but do it in a fashion that is appropriate for democracy. >> what worries me about our political system is that we are in a time of the toughest economic anxiety. many worry that jobs will not be available and that our economic dominance is questioned right now. that the unemployment rate reflects something more structural. the division and viciousness from the last election, people are genuinely worried about their lot and they are not sure that the political system can handle it or can cope with this. i think it can, but i do not think it can people do not trust each other. i remember when i was a freshman in congress, hubert humphrey was a senator in 1977 and was dying of prostate cancer. he was the only u.s. senator to address a joint meeting of the house and senate. he can to the floor and said, "i want you to fight every battle like it was the most important battle of your life and do not spare any effort and energy to get what you want across. but after your den, the to your adversary, shake his hand, because he may be your ally in the next battle." that spirit is waning. we have to figure out how to get it back. that is what does produce a shine to do, to find those tools, sensible and realistic tools, where we can get people to shake hands across the aisles. >> to what extent is gerrymandering causing some of this bitter partisanship, making safe districts where people play to their bases rather than working across the aisle? >> i think it is a contributing factor. i do not think it is the only factor. i believe that excessive money, the saturation of money in politics is also a very significant contributing factor. but i do believe that the nature of the basic leasing will districts where you do not have to talk to a diverse group of people tends to tolerate. -- tends to polarize you. >> not all the gerrymandering, but the humanity of it, there were too close friends when i had the honor of serving in the senate. we had a system that really is, where we stayed in d.c. and we spent one week in our state. it allowed us to get to know very well. when i come home, linda had been talking to patricia. i knew they knew what they marching orders should be. the families are a part of this, too. candidates run on the issue, but we have to have an institutional structure so they can live with the family as well. >> so you're talking about the calendar will, which is nowadays -- most senators and congressmen go home on thursday afternoon, spend the weekend back home, fly back tuesday, and there is no socializing. there is no being with people of the opposite party, partly because of jet travel. it makes it easier to fly home. but secondly because the calendar does i give you three weeks on and one week off. >> they do not live in washington any more. they live in their home districts. their families are not in wash