like china. just wait for that little morsel to make it to an obama ad near you. romney and bain capital. this story not going away. also, if you were to judge mitt romney and president obama's speeches to latino officials on reaction alone, it'd be a slam dunk win for the president. but the big question for team obama, can they translate the enthusiasm we saw today into votes? plus the jury now has the sandusky case, but the jurors don't know the latest two pieces of explosive news about this matter. buzz bisinger will join us. and the debate over eric holder and fast and furious has moved to the front pages. the conservative base is thrilled. so why has the republican leadership been treating this story like it's kryptonite? and let me finish tonight to my home made solution to america's obesity crisis. we start with outsourcing jobs at bain capital. joan walsh and michael sheir. mitt romney says he'll help bring homes back from overseas. but that wasn't always the case. a damning new report from the washington post today lays out clearly how invested romney's firm bain capital was in companies that outsourced jobs including to china. quote, during the nearly 15 years that romney was actively involved in running bain, it owned companies that were pioneers in the practice of shipping work from the united states to overseas call centers and factories making computer components according to the filings with the sec. is this going to stick? i ask this question because bain has already been an issue. in the beltway, you hear people say that they didn't play so well, yet out in middle america and in focus groups i think you get a different reaction. what would be the reaction to this? >> i think we're at the beginning of this conversation. mitt romney so far sticking to his line which is i have experience in the private sector. he doesn't want to go beyond that to discuss specifically what he did at bain. the obama campaign is looking to hit them over and over again all through the summer. they have had some success in these swing states doing this. i think this is is just another piece of doing this. romney will have to establish a difference in his time in 234e private sector. i think everybody admits here it was about lowering the cost of products and increasing profits. and what he plans to do when he comes into office which is not outsourcing jobs despite what chicago is sort of saying right now. that vote for mitt romney is a vote for offshoring more jobs. he doesn't want to have that discussion, but i think it's going to have to happen at some point. >> well, the president was quick to respond to the post's story. he was in tampa this afternoon. let's take a look. >> today it was reported in "the washington post" that the companies his firm owned were pioneers in the outsourcing of american jobs to places like china and india. pioneers. let me tell you tampa, we do not need an outsourcing pioneer the the oval office. we need a president who will fight for american jobs and fight for american manufacturing. that's what my plan will do. >> and romney's campaign responded. quote, this is fundamentally flawed story that does not differentiate between domestic outsourcing versus offshoring nor versus work done overseas to support u.s. exports. as president he will implement policies that make it easier and more attractive for compajoan w follow. that's a confusing issue. is that going to wash? >> no. it's an intentionally confusing statement. i think you can see that. the problem for the romney campaign is that the post story is very explicit that this was -- they're talking about offshoring. it is true that outsourcing can be proving jobs out of a company to another firm that does it cheaper in the united states. and that does happen. but the post is very careful to delineate the firms that bain invested in whose business model essentially was offshoring technology jobs. so i think -- i agree with michael. the obama campaign has had some success already with bain. top strategists seem a little uncomfortable with it. you've got the problem of wall street democrats not sure how hard they want to hit private capital -- private equity firms. i think it is resonating with voters. you've got a hypocrisy problem. because you've got mitt romney actually saying one of the few things -- one of the few concrete things he says is he's going to pick a fight with china. and we've got examples of how he works to send american jobs to china. >> michael sheir -- >> i think this is going to stick with them. >> how about the argument you'll hear i suspect from romney and supporters that his job was not the same as the job he seeks. his job was to make money as a business leader. he's got an all different job description should he become the president. >> that is the argument. implicit in that is someone who has worked in me private sector who understands why companies are shipping jobs overseas will have an advantage over the current president. i think that's the turf on which we're going to be playing this out. i don't think it's a situation in which romney can get through this election i was once a business man or the president can say mitt romney was once a businessman, therefore, he wants to take your job and send it to china. neither of those will wash. the discussion is going to be about whether the actual proposals mitt romney has and the actual proposals that barack obama has will lead the country to the future that more voters want. and that's the turf on which we're going to play this out. >> joan, when bain was last an issue, when the charge was one of vulture capitalism, there were a number of democrats who spoke out of turn. cory booker comes to mind. i can't see a responding circumstance when the issue is outsourcing, can you? >> no, i really can't because -- and also to get back to what michael was saying about the debate between their proposals. mitt romney also wants to slash taxes on corporations' foreign operations. there are actually lots of ways for the obama administration to say this is very much about his proposals as president and that his experience at bain really did shape the way he looks at the economy and he's coming into office. if he gets into office with that mind set, which is really about how to help rich people make more money and really leaves american workers out of the equation. >> to that end, romney frequently invokes his time at bain to suggest he would be a better leader on the economy. he says he knows how jobs are created and what causes them to leave. >> i spent my life in private enterprise. 25 years. i know how businesses work. i know what causes them to leave and what will bring them back. i want to use that experience to get america working again for me it's all about good jobs for the american people. and a bright and prosperous future. >> and the president focuses his attack on romney and bain recently on the issue of outsourcing. here was an ad that the campaign put out just yesterday. >> running for governor, mitt romney campaigned as a job creator. >> i know how jobs are created. >> but as a corporate raider, he shipped jobs to china and mexico. as governor, he did the same thing. outsourcing state jobs to india. now, he's making the exact same pitch. >> i know why jobs come and why they go. >> outsourcing jobs. romney economics. it didn't work then and it won't work now. >> michael sheir, strange thing. i saw that was reviewed by the post, which had the story today and it was the recipient of several pinocchios, so it seems within "the washington post," they can't get it together as to the accuracy of those charges. >> i think you can say the story was accurate and the ad was false. i don't think they're the same thing. there is an argument here. you could have surrogates for democrats defending this. would come on and say there are benefits to this sort of comparative advantage of allowing other countries to produce things cheaper if they can produce it cheaper. we're able to then buy the products cheaper. we'll have more money to spend. there are arguments to defend that is not really a good word in this election, the creative destruction of capitalism. what romney is saying in the clips you just played was my job as president will be different from my job as the private sector businessman. my job will be to create jobs. i'm going to use the experience from my private sector days, but my job as president is not going to be what my job at bain was which was to increase returns for my shareholders. >> joan walsh, it seems the obama campaign all too happen foi make this a referendum on bain. >> you've got axelrod calling mitt romney the outsourcer in chief and the revelations about china give that whole line of reasoning a lot of new life. >> thank you. we appreciate your being here. coming up, president obama gets a spirited welcome from the same latino group that spent a lot of times sitting on its hands for mitt romney yesterday. that's ahead. this is "hardball," the place for politics. what makes the sleep number store different? 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[ male announcer ] wells fargo. with you when you're ready to move. we should have passed the dream act a long time ago. it was written by members of both parties. when it came up for a vote a year and a half ago, republicans in congress blocked it. the bill hadn't changed. the need hadn't changed. the only thing that had changed was politics. >> welcome back to "hardball." president obama kept up the heat on congress today speaking before the national association of latino and elected officials. it's the same event where mitt romney addressed this key constituency yesterday. the president made reference to romney's visit, including a pause for dramatic effect. >> your speaker from yesterday has a different view. in a speech, he said that when he makes a promise to you, he'll keep it. well, he has promised to veto the dream act and we should take him at his word. i'm just saying. >> president obama needs latino vote to be motivated in november. their turnout could be key to his re-election and that's really what today's speech was all about. david korn is an msnbc political analyst and author of the book "showdown." erin, does it seem like the president did what he needed to do to energize that constituency today? >> for the most part, yes, at least in comparison to mitt romney yesterday. but president obama simply said that he would sign a dream act if it made it to his desk, which deals with a smaller portion of the nation's illegal immigrants. not all 11 million of them. we heard from republicans today who said that while president obama continued to support the dream act, he didn't go much further. it energizes the latino community to a certain degree, but not 100%. he's been saying his door has been open for three and a half years if congress would like to work with him, but a lot of republicans started chiding him today saying that's not enough and doesn't show a ton of leadership. >> to state the obvious, 9% of those who came out to vote in '08, if that gets boosted to 10, 11, 12%, there in would lie the margin of victory in a close race overall. >> yes. if you compare mitt romney's speech to barack obama's speech today, it's like comparing mayonnaise to salsa. now, mayonnaise is fine. it has some binding properties to it, but barack obama spoke to this crowd as if he understood them and more importantly, shared their values. he talked about comprehensive immigration reform, those across the rio grande, as being part of the great american story. he talked about justice. he talked about a lot of thipgs mitt romney couldn't do and i think he was specific in saying he did try to pass the dream act and that also his door is open to comprehensive immigration reform that he has voted for in the past and it's republicans who can't see their way through the threshold anymore. >> the difference in the reaction from the latino crowd from romney yesterday and obama today was obvious. first let's look at president obama's wrapup today. >> america was built by people who said something different. who said yes, we can. who said [ speaking in foreign language ] and as long as i have the privilege of being your president, i will be fighting alongside you fighting for the country that we together dream of. god bless you. thank you. god bless the united states of america. ♪ >> and the reaction to governor romney's speech was much more muted. it's easy to select iively edit these things but this was one of romney's bigger applause lines. >> as president, i won't settle for stopgap measures. i'll work with republicans and democrats to build a long-term solution. and i'll prioritize measures -- i will stand for a path to legal status for anyone who's willing to step up and defend this great nation through military service. thank you so much. and god bless this great land. thank you. >> these reactions are born out in a new poll of latino voters in battle ground states that show president obama with a huge lead. 74% to 18% in arizona. colorado 70-22. florida 53-37. virginia 59-28. erin mcpike, what drives these numbers? the economy? the immigration issue? a combination of both? >> oh, it's certainly a combination of both. and of course president obama used much of his speech to talk about his economic vision versus mitt romney. of course that's part of it. those polls you show are largely in the west and florida and virginia where president obama is generally doing better. i would point out, though, that the population of illegal immigrants and voters where mitt romney took his bus tour were in the midwest where the population is smaller. and mitt romney is doing better in some of those other states. so, yes, this is where this election is going to be litigated. president obama and his team think that they are in much better shape in the west where they have an advantage with this group versus mitt romney, who thinks he's got a path of victory through the midwest. >> david, we're a week after the president's executive order relative to the children of illegals and still a lack of specificity from the romney campaign on that issue. >> romney is boxed in in a way i can't think or recall a modern presidential candidate being boxed in. during the primary campaign, as the president noted today, he promised the veto the dream act, but also had a very clear policy on undocumented immigrants. you have to leave. you have to go home. even if places that may not be your home. so once you say that, you really take yourself out of the equation when it comes to coming up with any long-term plans, which is why he couldn't define what his long-term solution is and when you're not in favor of the directive the president came up with last week, it sends a signal to people, if you're not going to help the children who were brought here through no fault of your own, why are are you going to do that? to pander to people who a lot of latinos believe don't like them. it's a threshold issue. if you can't help that part of this population, they're going going to listen to you because they think you're in league with or you yourself don't care much for this part of the american community. put that all together, michael, and i don't think he can recover from this. it's not a fatal wound. it's an untreatable wound. >> erin, when mitt romney spoke to latino group yesterday, a lot of people expecting him to give a specific response to the president's executive order i just reverenced. here's how he handled it. >> some people have asked if i will let stand the president's executive order. the answer is that i will put in place my own long-term solution that will replace and supersede the president's temporary measure. as president, i won't settle for stopgap measures. >> not very specific and so today, the obama campaign put out a web video complete with the sound of a ticking stopwatch in the background pointing out how many days have passed without a response from romney. >> you said this is just the short-term solution to a long-term problem. but would you repeal this order if you became president? >> well, let's step back and look at the issue. >> what would you do about it? would you repeal this? i won't keep on about this but to make sure i understand, would you leave this in place while you worked out a long-term solution or would you just repeal it? >> we'll look at that setting as we reach that. >> can leave you scratching your head wondering why a man who wants to be president can't tell us a little bit more about what he would actually do. >> erin, where do you see this issue going? he's got to come up with something with more specificity, no? >> one would think but he's not doing it because he knows if he's litigating immigration policy with the president, he's losing in a lot of places he needs to start winning. today the romney campaign put out a response, several responses from hispanic elected officials who support mitt romney saying the problem with this speech is that the hispanic community has seen its unemployment rate increase under this president. and they don't want to talk about immigration policy. of course, when mitt romney was running for president in 2007 and 2008, he tried to grind down his opponents by running to the right of them on immigration policy. and he did the very same thing against rick perry in this past primary. so if he comes to -- softens his position as many think he should, he runs the risk of looking like a flip-flopper. he's in a tough spot as far as immigration policy is concerned. >> david, one explanation might be that the thunder he expected to get from rubio was stolen. and in fact the two were going to be very similar. >> well, it was. and the thing is about rubio's proposal is that romney had not really endorsed it. and most of republican leadership was very lukewarm on it. rubio was looking