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Deadline White House

something we've seen from the beginning. the search warrant talks about former staffers making those types of defenses on television and, again, i'd submit if there was ever a time to disclose to the department of justice and to the u.s. government that these documents were classified, it was on june 3rd before there had been a search warrant, before anyone was charged, that's exactly the moment when you would want to deescalate. >> betsy, there are moments like a kaleidoscope shaking, how impotent trump's typical tv defenses are in this instance. when he was impeached twice, there were ridiculous things that his people went out and said and it had an impact of getting enough senate republicans not to convict him. this is totally different. this is so far a system that is in a chamber mostly sealed from

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Deadline White House

something which is a hypothetical. there are scores of people who have gone to jail for doing far less. and so you can have people give adjectives and adverse and say this is a witch hunt but if you actually look at the data, it is absolutely clear that the rule of law required no less than what the justice department is doing right now. >> betsy, i want to come back to your point about, you know, math. i read the story three times when it posted and this is so dumb. i can't believe i have to cover this. this is so dumb. this is a crime that a smart criminal or someone who wanted to get away with it could have covered up. i mean, the whole fact that they were doing all this on tape, is there any piece of this that looks manufactured in your view, that looks like waving the red flag? is it careless? is it reckless?

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Deadline White House

investigators here, their focus was what do they need to do to make sure they have secured and obtained all of the classified documents. i've been in these conversations many times before. that is the focus. should we obtain cooperation? do we need to send a subpoena? do we need to obtain a search warrant? that happens all the time and what we're seeing or what we saw with this affidavit is that the prosecutors, investigators, had no choice. this was the only way that they could ensure that they obtained the documents, not that they obtained criminal charges. and i do think it's important to separate those two because we're ten months advanced but at the time i don't believe the conversation was about criminal charges against the former president. >> yeah. i want to press you on this as well, andrew, and you too, betsy. i have to sneak in a quick break. we'll all be right back. break. we'll all be right back.

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CNN This Morning Weekend

but i am hopeful that this might actually be able to take effect. >> all right. betsy, thank you. i know these are some questions that people who have those tens of thousands of dollars and for some hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans really want to know, when, what, how much. thanks so much. and be sure to mark your calendars for tuesday. join me as cnn's july 4th special returns with an all-star lineup. spectacular fireworks, the biggest musical performances around. cnn's the fourth in america live tuesday at 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. we'll be right back. [ dog barks ] [ whimpers ] you u have reached your destination. onone more? ♪ onene more time ♪ id. light in the all-electric id.4. it's the little things.

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The Story With Martha MacCallum

there's things that the white house's finger tips that could happen to pressure some of these schools to lower their costs and to get at it that way. quick thought from you, if i may, on this huge affirmative action decision that says that you have to remove this as a measure for applicants, checking the box, which ethnicity that they belong to, betsy. >> well, again, the court did the right thing and really affirming what the constitution says. that discrimination of any kind is against the constitutional provisions. if we really want to look at the issues that they're trying to get at here, it goes back to k-12 education. the fact that so many young people that live, grow up in low-income areas, many of them minority students, don't have the opportunity to make choices for their k-12 education. today that will provide them the path and the avenue to go to the schools that they want to

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The Story With Martha MacCallum

against their religious beliefs. so we're going to talk about that in a moment. first, let's bring in betsy devos. a couple of huge decisions that are related to education have come down from the highest court in the land. betsy, great to have you with us. thanks for being here. let's started -- i want to ask you about affirmative action as well. i know you have thoughts to share with us. let's start with what happened today. the president had envisioned this huge relief package. in fact, i think it helps him a lot in the mid-term elections. it was popular. the court shot it down today. what do you think? >> well, martha, everybody knew this was illegal to begin with. president biden said as much when he was campaigning for president as did nancy pelosi. what this was was a not so thinly veiled attempt to get a lot of votes in the last election, the mid-terms and it's an attempt to continue that trend to bye votes to re-elect joe biden.

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The Story With Martha MacCallum

the court simply affirmed the fact today that this is an illegal scheme and it had to stop. >> martha: yeah. i want to remind everybody, let's go back to this moment which i think resonated with a lot of people that worked hard to pay off their loans and made sacrifices. elizabeth warren thought it was a great idea. she thought everybody would love it. here she is confronted on the campaign trail in 2022. watch this. >> i want to ask you a question. my daughter is getting out of school. i saved my money. am i going to get my money back for school? >> of course not. >> so you're going to pay for people that didn't save money and those of us that did the right thing get screwed? >> martha: yeah, that was a memorable moment. it was 2020. before the presidential race. how do you see this playing out politically, betsy? >> well, i think president biden is going to continue to find ways to try to buy those votes. but i think what the court has said, made it very clear that

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Deadline White House

anybody who would tell him what he wanted to hear, those were the people who had his ear and in turn, you know, had their ears to hear what he said. so that's the kind of final circle it seems to me we're in. first and foremost to me, i've been saying this for months, mark meadows, and now that he's testified, you know, that really gives smith a lot to work with. we don't know what he said, just like we don't know a lot of the cards that smith is holding right now. but it's a high hand. >> and we have seen a lot of mark meadows' text messages sent and received on that day and leading up to it. so if we imagine jack smith to have a gazillion more stuff like that, you're right, he has a lot. i want to switch gears with you, betsy and michael, and sort of get at what trump is facing. i know there's a temptation to cover trump as though it's a static thing in our politics, but he's never run for president with jack smith and chris christie both taking aim at him, one for his criminality and the other for this. let me show you this.

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Deadline White House

sensitive compartmentalized information facility, right, to do everything that we know on record and with photos donald trump didn't do. so it's his bathroom and the months and longer that those materials were at risk to everyone, including his own lawyers now having to follow the rules that he allegedly broke. >> and having to follow them to make this determination under the rule of law and in a court of law about his criminal accountability. thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks for sticking around with us. betsy, luke broadwater, brandon and ari has been here next to me. thank you all so much. andrew weissman is never allowed to leave and anthony becomes his -- shall i call it cellmate? no, it's fun here. it's not prison. but we will never let you check out. we are going to sneak in a very short break, catch our breath. we have much more news to come. joy reid will be here.

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Deadline White House

between whatever decision would be appropriate in this case. andrew knows this, you all have talked about this on this program, it's important to reemphasize here that jack smith is not subject to the day to day supervision of anybody at the justice department, not garland, not monaco, not the head of the national security division. this was his decision and that should give people confidence that the rule of law is centered in this case. >> betsy woodruff swan is along with us as well. i think we have a mountain of confidence and we understand that distinction and we understand we have an opportunity to talk to kneel cot -- neil cot y'all who crafted the regulations. betsy, they've taken trump's call for war and retribution literally and j.:vance called for war and retribution on the doj today saying he will as a

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