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i've lost once or twice, you've probably lost once or twice. >> never lost. undefeated. >> people lose 9-0 in the supreme court. judges throw out motions. judges say this is frivolous. that doesn't make it criminal. what prosecutors are alleging is this was more than just bad lawyering. this was part of a broader conspiracy of fraud and attempt to steal the election. but don't listen to anyone who says this is an easy case. this is a really difficult case. >> which they need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to 11 people. >> well, 12. >> i think we just got in, and this is quick by the way, rudy giuliani's booking photo. i believe we have? there we go. i mean, it took a while. we were told yesterday afternoon we would be getting them. the fact that this was released. why would you release that photo so quickly? >> the policy is to let it go public to the media. it's this is one of the times it flies in the face of it. they're rolling it out as soon as the printer prints and the
mounted in any criminal case. if it goes to trial. if the defendant doesn't plead that must be mounted. that is the way the whole system works. and one of the defense is clearly that trump's team is previewing. that they were going to argue in court. a freedom of speech or defense. here is how the defense played out this morning. >> it is the first time a sitting president is attacking a political opponent on first amendment grounds. and basically making it criminal to state your position. to engage -- >> gotta give you a timeout on that. when >> the indictment specifically says that the president has a first amendment right to. speak he even has a first amendment right to lie. >> absolutely. >> this indictment is criminalizing conduct not speech. >> it's criminalizing speech. >> why the randomly incised in
the same way that in mob cases, people talk about the boss, they say i'm ordering you to murder someone. you can say, well, they were free to speak. that doesn't make it their language any less illegal. here, they really focused on specific conduct at issue. i think you're going to be steering way clear of those kinds of first amendment issues. >> i want to play a little bit of sound from trump's lawyer, john lauro, speaking with savannah guthrie on the today show this morning. it's like they haven't gotten member the first amendment here's what they said, let's take a listen. >> this is the first time that the first amendment has been criminalized. it is the first time that a sitting president is attacking a political opponent on first amendment grounds, basically making it criminal to state your position. >> i just don't get it. is this what they prepared in
defendant doesn't plea, it must be mounted. that's how the system works. one of the defense is clearly that previewing is that they were going to argue in court is a freedom of speech defense. here is how that defense played out this morning, right here on today. >> it's the first time in a sitting president is attacking a political opponent on first amendment grounds and making it criminal to state your position and to engage in political -- >> gonna give you a timeout on that one. >> we see that. before >> well, the indictment specifically says that the president has the first amendment right to speech he. he even has the first amendment right to lie. >> absolutely. >> this indictment is criminalizing conduct, not speech. >> no, it's criminalizing speak for this reason. the 2020 election there were all these irregularities going. on he had every right comment on that annex politically. in a criminal case, that what they would have to show is that all that speech was -- >> we're not talking about
we were upping a bank, it's the same way that him of cases, people talk about the boss, i'm ordering you to murder someone. you can say, well, they were free to speak. that doesn't make it their language any less illegal. right here, they really focused on specific conduct at issue. i think you're going to be steering way clear of those kinds of first amendment issues. >> i want to play a little bit of sound from trump's lawyer, speaking with savannah guthrie on the today show this morning. it's like they haven't gotten member the deferred amendment stuff is not a very adequate defense. here's what they said, let's take a listen. >> this is the first time that the first amendment has been criminalized. it is the first time that a sitting president is attacking a political opponent on first amendment grounds, basically making it criminal to state your position. >> i just don't get it. is this what they prepared in their defense to let it go?
that doesn't make their language any less illegal. here they really focused on specific conduct at issue, so i think they're going to be steering way clear of personal issues. >> yeah, i want to play a bit of sound from john lauro speaking on the "today" show with savannah guthrie this morning. this is what he said. let's take a listen. >> this is the first time that the first amendment has been criminalized. it's the first time that a sitting president is attacking a political opponent on first amendment grounds and basically making it criminal to state your position. >> i just i don't get -- is this a defense othey've prepared and loathe to let it go given the indictment? >> this is a talking point. this is a defense in the court of public opinion in terms of his base that is not legally something that is going to past muster.
political opponent on first amendment grounds and basically making it criminal to state your position and to engage in political -- >> let me give a little time out on that one. well, the indictment specifically says that the president had a first amendment right to speech. he even had the first amendment right to lie. it says it right here. this indictment is criminalizing conduct, not speech. >> what president trump had was an actual opinion of counsel that his request to vice president pence was completely lawful and completely constitutional. >> he also had many -- in his own white house counsel that was not legal. >> you're entitled to believe and trust advice of counsel. >> well-done, savannah. during another interview on cnn last night trump's attorney general bill barr weighed in on this latest indictment as well as trump's possible defense. >> as the indictment says, you know, they're not attacking his first amendment right. he can say whatever he wants, he
first amendment has been criminalized. it's the first time a sitting president is attacking a political opponent on first amendment grounds and making it criminal to state your position and to engage in political -- >> i have to give you a time-out on that one. >> we've never seen that before. >> well, the indictment specifically says that the president has a first amendment right to speech. >> yes. >> he even has a first amendment speech to lie. i says it right here. >> absolutely. >> this is criminalizing conduct, not speech. >> what president trump had was an actual opinion of counsel, that his request to vice president pence was completely lawful and completely constitutional. >> he also had many, many opinions of his own white house counsel that that was not legal. >> no, you're entitled to believe and trust advice of counsel. >> as the indictment says, you know, they're not attacking his first amendment right. he can say whatever he wants. he can even lie. he can even tell people that the election was stolen when he knew
>> that was a fascinating interview, particularly when you asked how he would vote on the jury, which was quite a question. he said i'm not sure. the fact is that pence was right on that day. you know, i criticize president trump's speech while he gave it on the air. also his criticism of pence. pence had no choice to do what he did. he carried his constitutional function. the question is whether being wrong means that you are a criminal. that's what is at the heart of this indictment. the indictment is full of references to how the president sped lies. he presented disinformation. how so many people told he was he was wrong. i was one of them. but he listened to others. he listened to a small group of lawyers that were presented their own theories about the election. i think they were wrong. they have been proven wrong. but the question is it criminal
conspiracy, to defraud the united states, to obstruct an official proceeding and to impede the people's right to vote. ever since the news broke, the former president, his allies and attorneys have been working furiously to smear jack smith and the department while minimizing or outright dismissing the charges even while simultaneously using them to raise money. among the arguments, that trump's provebly false claims were protected by free speech. here is his attorney john lara with savannah guthrie today. >> it's the first time a sitting president is attacking a political opponent on first amendment grounds and basically making it criminal to state your position and -- >> i've got to give you a little time out on that one. >> we've never seen it before. >> the indictment specifically says the president has a first amendment right to speech, even has a first amendment right to lie, says it right here. this indictment is criminalizing