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Katy Tur Reports

a lot of it will depend on how judge cannon decides to view the legal issues involved here, and of course there's the wide open question of where she stands on this case. in reality, the former president's lawyers will have a good argument to make here. it's a little bit complicated and inside of the weeds, but because this earlier decision saying that the notes could be used came in the process of a grand jury investigation, it's not what's called law of the case. law of the case essentially means that once there's been a ruling in a case that's been affirmed on appeal, the parties can't revisit it. you can't endlessly litigate those same issues in one says, so that would hold here, if perhaps, there had been a post indictment decision, but because we're talking about a grand jury decision made by a judge in another circuit, judge cannon may be able to reopen this can of worms, especially if trump's lawyers can come forward with

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Andrea Mitchell Reports

has enormous discretion and she could essentially almost have a pocket veto on the case by delaying it until after the republican nomination or even the general election. i think if she were to do that, i think the doj would appeal and do sort of a writ of man dams. an appeal to the 11th circuit. there they might seek her recusal. certainly a faster date. that's one of the ways i think she would do a disservice to this country where people are entitled to hear the evidence and weigh it for themselves and to have a decision one way or the other. whether acquittal or conviction. as to what happened here. the one thing i can assure you, however, is on the point about evan cork ran, while she has a lot of power to decide what comes in and out, that decision is what's called law of the case. that was litigated fully by donald trump and the government before a different judge, barrel

Case , Election , Nomination , Discretion , Pocket-veto , Sort-of-a-writ-man-dams , Republican , Doj , People , One , Country , Evidence

FOX and Friends-20220110-12:48:00

and interfering with arrest. he is not going to go after prostitution or trespassing or turnstile jumping, which just means you are going to wind up with more trespassing and turnstile jumping. so, across the river from manhattan in staten island where you are, you are not going to do what he is doing where you just outright dismiss things as you just detailed. you are going to look at what somebody did. their criminal history and then think, okay, this guy has got to be charged. >> correct. and charged according to the facts and law of the case. and if appropriate, low level crime, it's driven by addiction, we will try to get that person the help that they need as well. we have a long standing program in loipg long island hope program copied nationwide to help those people. you can't just issue a memo and think that crime will stop. it continues to go on. we have seen through the pandemic that rates go up. especially with gun violence there are people throughout the

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Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111220:00:40:00

did not give citizenship. it was in compliance with the rather mutated view of dred scott. that's simply not true. ultimately, the 14th amendment got rid of dred scott. so the history here is pretty shaky, but the message is really scary, because what he's suggesting is that a president can simply ignore the court. and become a government unto himself. >> congressman watts, go ahead and respond. and along the way, please speak to the issue of whether this is violative of a separation of power. this notion that all of a sudden an executive branch or a legislative branch would be able to call members of the judiciary on the carpet. >> well, michael, what the speaker -- the essence of what the speaker was saying or trying to say, and i've heard him talk about this before, what he was saying was is that, you know, an activist judge, basically, it is the responsibility of the judge to interpret the law, not to make the law. that's the legislative branch's responsibility to create laws.

History , Citizenship , Dred-scott , Compliance , Message , View , 14th-amendment , 14 , The-way , President , Court , Government

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111220:00:36:00

the pledge or a judge saying that you will put a superintendent in jail if he hears the word benediction or invocation, those type of things. that is a somewhat extreme. >> but can you imagine if president obama issued a subpoena and said, i would like to have scalia, roberts and thomas show up here at 1600 pennsylvania avenue and explain to me their rationale in how they vote perhaps next year on the health care bill. there would be a hew and cry, and appropriately so. >> i think judges do take opportunities across the country to go into different forums to talk about different issues. i've seen on c-span and other forums where judges, supreme court judges, appellate court judges, district judges, i've seen them go into different venues and talk about, you know, ideology or talk about the law, the constitution. and i don't think there's anything wrong with having a judge come before members of congress to give their thoughts.

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Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111220:00:41:00

and the speaker went on to say, in his interview with bob schaefer, he said, you know, if the judges -- if judges render a decision that congress and the president could overrule that decision, that they did have a say, that they did not -- that they were not necessarily final word, because the president and the congress could overrule or could create a law saying we disagree with that. so i think the essence of what he was talking about was trying to say, how do we -- do we have any say over a judge making a ruling, saying we should take "under god" out of the pledge, as they said in the ninth circuit. the speaker was saying, implying that, yes, we do have some say in that, and some authority to say, you are not the final word, through the congress and through the administrative branches of government. >> final question, if i may, for you, congressman watts. i know that you came out today for house speaker newt gingrich. why have more members of that

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Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111220:07:41:00

schaefer, he said, you know, if the judges -- if judges render a decision that congress and the president could overrule that decision, that they did have a say, that they did not -- that they were not necessarily final word, because the president and the congress could overrule or could create a law saying we disagree with that. so i think the essence of what he was talking about was trying to say, how do we -- do we have any say over a judge making a ruling, saying we should take "under god" out of the pledge, as they said in the ninth circuit. the speaker was saying, implying that, yes, we do have some say in that, and some authority to say, you are not the final word, through the congress and through the administrative branches of government. >> final question, if i may, for you, congressman watts. i know that you came out today for house speaker newt gingrich. why have more members of that class of '94 not done likewise?

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Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111220:07:38:00

meat speeches during a campaign. this isn't a red meat speech. as many as somewhere closer to cannibalism. one branch devouring the other. and he is threatening the very thing that gave stability to our system. if you look back in our history, the rock that we have based our system on has been an independent judiciary. it's what george washington called the strongest cement of good government. he was referring to that system of law and that court system. >> well, is history -- is history on newt gingrich's side? because he injects the reference to president jefferson and talks about how three circuits were abolished under his watch. >> yeah, he's wrong. i got to tell you, i don't know which concerns me more, his rather misinformation about the law or his misinformation about history. the historical examples he gave are simply wrong. i mean, he refers to, for example, to lincoln -- >> may i interrupt and show it to everybody? he defended his position by

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Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111220:07:40:00

scott. that's simply not true. ultimately, the 14th amendment got rid of dred scott. so the history here is pretty shaky, but the message is really scary, because what he's suggesting is that a president can simply ignore the court. and become a government unto himself. >> congressman watts, go ahead and respond. and along the way, please speak to the issue of whether this is violative of a separation of power. this notion that all of a sudden an executive branch or a legislative branch would be able to call members of the judiciary on the carpet. >> well, michael, what the speaker -- the essence of what the speaker was saying or trying to say, and i've heard him talk about this before, what he was saying was is that, you know, an activist judge, basically, it is the responsibility of the judge to interpret the law, not to make the law. that's the legislative branch's responsibility to create laws. and the speaker went on to say, in his interview with bob

President , History , Dred-scott , Message , 14th-amendment , 14 , The-way , Issue , Court , Government , Power , Congressman-watts

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111220:00:39:00

>> may i interrupt and show it to everybody? he defended his position by invoking abraham lincoln, as you say. let's all watch. >> are judges above the rest of the constitution? or are judges one of the three co-equal branches? >> but isn't the other side of that, are the rest of us above the constitution in obeying the law? don't at some point you have to say, this is a nation of laws and we all have to -- >> you do. but i go back to lincoln, who people generally think respected the law. lincoln explicitly instructed his administration not to enforce dread scott, and he said, it's the law of the case, not the law of the land. and it's in his first inaugural. >> professor turley, is that true? >> no, it's absolutely not true. the thing that undid dread scott was the 14th amendment. the emancipation proclamation did not conflict with dred scott. because dred scott said you could not give citizenship to african-americans. the emancipation proclamation

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