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Morning Joe

to be taken lightly. >> lisa, if you look at what judge chutkan put down yesterday, which is march the 4th for a start date, what fani willis wants to do next year, they're all making clear, these are happening next year. despite the request from donald trump's team to push them to after the election. >> yeah. to ken's point, donald trump doesn't have enough legal resources right now, but partially that's because he keeps playing legal musical chairs. judge chutkan made it clear yesterday, the fact, mr. lauro, you're just coming onto this case doesn't mean donald trump hasn't been sitting with these allegations for a long time. i'm not going to allow this rotating cast of lawyers to be the occasion for delay here. i think you'll see that from the other judges, as well. the fact that he can't assemble a legal team is not the judge's problem. >> it's going to be quite a year or 18 months ahead. >> absolutely. >> lisa rubin, ken dilanian, we'll be talking to you quite a bit. thanks so much. the tropical system headed toward florida now a category 1 hurricane, upgraded this morning. idalia expected to intensify

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Morning Joe

long jim crow period, the history of the violence that was committed during those decades against black people in this country, across this country, we're just not going to move forward. so it is shameful that there are efforts to, in effect, hide that history. then, of course, there is a separate issue of guns, which we talk about every time we have one of these shootings. you know, you get hoarse from making this point, but you have to keep making it over and over again. we're the only country that has more guns than people. we're the only advanced country that has these mass shootings. >> police in jacksonville say, in this case, the shooter bought two guns legally, passed the background checks, and everything went through quickly and easily. but, again, here we are. in this case, three innocent souls, one sitting in a car, one

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Morning Joe

chutkan, the federal judge in the district of columbia, was trying to do when she spoke with the new york state judg about scheduling. makes a lot of sense to me. you know, you put up the calendar. it is crowded. it's worth noting something that judge chutkan said. being a defendant in a criminal trial is not convenient. it is not intended to be convenient. lots of people who have busy schedules end up as defendants in criminal trials and have to put aside their personal lives to attend to these matters. that's exactly what mr. trump has to do. she wasn't sympathetic to the fact that he was a candidate for president. he has a matter he has to attend to in her court, and he'd better be there. the calendar is crowded. there's a lot of time -- i should say, there's a lot of matters taking up a little bit of time, but that's the way it goes when you're a defendant in a criminal case. you have to attend to it.

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Morning Joe

months. lauro just wouldn't concede any of that. i think they really lost her by refusing to engage with her on terms she found reasonable. >> ken, you were at the hearing yesterday. what was the tenor? just reading through it, it certainly looked like there was a lot of back and forth between judge chutkan amonishing lauro at several moments in the hearing. what was it like in there? >> so, willie, full disclosure, i was actually standing outside doing live shots for msnbc, but i was reading word for word as our colleagues inside were typing what she was saying into the google doc that i was looking at. i was really wishing we could all watch it on television because it was a remarkable hearing. the sort of reality distortion field of the trump defense in this case, you know, kind of came crashing on the shoals of this hard-nose judge who wasn't taking any nonsense. she made a number of statements that would have been beneficial for the public at large to watch her say, for example, that

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Morning Joe

super tuesday, obviously a little later but not a lot later than jack smith was hoping for, and much, much earlier than trump's defense team had requested. what do you make of the march 4th choice? >> makes a lot of sense to me, willie. plenty of time for the defense to prepare its case, to do what they have to do. you know, sometimes where you stand depends on where you sit. i spent a lot of time as a federal prosecutor in the eastern district of virginia, so-called rocket docket. cases moved expeditiously. continuances were extraordinarily rare. six months would have been an ordinary window of time to set a case for trial. so strikes me as appropriate. let me also add something, willie. the january 6th case in federal court in the district of columbia is a one defendant, four charge indictment. so it's really not all that complex. if the defense attorneys want to get ready for trial, my advice, and i don't mean this in a

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Morning Joe

been scheduled for next wednesday, a week from tomorrow, september 6th. they're set to begin at 9:30 a.m. and run at 15-minute intervals. there's no word yet on whether those arraignments will be in-person or virtual. some kind of speed dating there, just getting them through, 15 minutes at a time, lisa rubin, to get them arraigned. let's go back to mark meadows. does he have a case that this should be moved to a federal court? >> he has more than a frivolous case but, i think ultimately, an un unsuccessful one. he was asked, "is there anything the president could have asked you to do that would have been beyond duties as white house chief of staff?" the only thing he came up with was trump asking him to speak at the rally. it is not that matter of law that speaking at a rally is the only thing he could do that would go beyond his federal duties. if it were, the hatch act would be a nullity. it's not whether or not he should be prosecuted for

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Morning Joe

making requests like that in front of a judge that they pay know is ridiculous. it doesn't curry you favor with the judge in the seriousness of the arguments you make. it was a bad strategic move. i'm convinced it was driven by the client, not by the lawyers, as most of the bad decisions on the trump legal team are driven by. now, they've got a march 4th date. you know, look, i think the thing for republican voters to think about out there is, this guy is going to be sitting in a courtroom starting on march 4th for probably six to eight weeks, depending upon the length of the defense case. at least six weeks. every day. not out on the campaign trail making the case against joe biden, which is what republicans should be doing every day. we simply cannot expect that someone who is facing this number of criminal trials, and, quite frankly, the conduct that underlies those charges, can be

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Morning Joe

requires, you first have to show you were fulfilling a federal function, right? so it's not so much, is it relevant to the conspiracy. it's, is it relevant or can you prove it to get your case to federal court? but, of course, the reason meadows wants to be in federal court in the first place is so he can advance the argument ken was referring to, which is this presidential immunity question. he is arguing that because he was a federal officer acting as the direction of the president or in cahoots with the president, it'd be improper or unconstitutional for fani willis to prosecute him in state court. the constitution has supremacy and, therefore, he belongs in a federal court. that's a vehicle to get rid of the case entirely. >> let's go to the state of georgia as we bring in greg bluestein. mark meadows, the first time we've had a witness effectively sit and testify and we could hear so much of the evidence, really to see where he is and

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Morning Joe

attorney. just a really interesting appeal to how important it is to get this case to trial. she said that the defendant is accused of historic crimes. this is molly gaston from the special counsel's office. and there is an incredibly strong public interest in a jury's prompt consideration of those claims in open court. judge tanya chutkan agreed. she said the right to a speedy trial wasn't just a defendant's right, it was the public's right. she agreed the public had a right to hear this case before the november 2024 election. look, nobody thinks this march 4th date is firm. there are at will of reasons to think it'll slip. lauro made clear he is going to file a motion to argue that donald trump is immune because he was president from these criminal charges, and that's something that could go all the way to the supreme court while this trial is pending. this may slip, but the bottom line is judge chutkan clearly wants to get this trial moving sometime next year before the election. that's hugely significant. >> lisa, ken led me to my next

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Morning Joe

does he actually get to move his case from state court to federal court? my guess is no. but even if he did, and it's possible he will, even if he did, he may win the battle and lose the war. he still has a criminal case pending against him. it'll simply be tried in federal court rather than state court. your second question, i was a bit surprised to see him take the stand. it didn't make a ton of sense to me. there are other ways for mr. meadows and his team to meet their burden of proof at the hearing. they could have submited affidavits or call other witness s. by taking the stand, he exposes himself to cross-examination, and it is perilous for someone who is a defendant in a criminal case. what he says can be used against him. it surprised me. maybe he managed to navigate those waters. we'll see. but that was a, i imagine, difficult decision for him to make. let's see if he did it

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