just a train wreck. >> hey, candidate a, candidate c said this about you. i thought one of the most moments was when john kasich was like are you kidding me? >> it was successful food fights. that was the idea behind it. they announced beforehand they were going try to start food fights. >> wouldn't it actually be awesome if they started debates about policy. chris christie had a great moment too. >> do we want to go that far? >> talk about policy and things that matter. >> that showed that he disappeared for long stretches. there wasn't enough trump to shown he had shrunken. was he suppose to talk all three hours? >> at the beginning it was so stunning. i started tweeting really? another trump question and another? are you kidding many e? we all love jay but there would be 12 trump questions. next question donald trump. you said blank. >> it was a weird way to start it. >> in three hours you could only ask the governor of ohio and the governor of wisconsin. >> this is not an exercise, we're educating people here. as a republican i set there going nicole said she loved this. i hated watching this. this was horrible for the republican brand. it's a nightmare. >> i should have put them in the back and let them rest. >> come on back up. >> you can but you almost should put them up there. if that's the way it's going to be. have five at a time. >> you're going to poke at donald trump for an hour. i tell you what i would have done. i would have said listen, i'm going to go back and sit on the plane behind me. when you really want to ask a serious question, get me off the plane. you're wasting my time, my family's time, my staff's time. kasich tried to say it, christie said it at one point too. wow. >> at some point you're the governor of ohio and governor of new jersey, it's dig any identified to fight your way in. >> somebody talked about the media playing a role or what the media is doing, it wasn't about putting on a really. >> we've been ripped off twice now, mika. fox did it. that debate was all about fox and cnns debate. cnn double downed on it. the problem is they both get rewarded with 23 million viewers. we're still waiting for our first serious policy debate. >> m coing up last month. >> last night donald trump followed up. he turned the mic other the the audience for questions. >> you know what i'm going to do tonight no speech. just questions. i'm going to say a few words and we're going to do question and answer. you can make them vicious, violent horrible questions. how many cameras? yeah, there's a lot of them. okay, this man. >> you know our current president isn't even american. anyway, we have training camps where they want to kill us. that's my question. when can we get rid of them? >> we're going to be looking at a lot of different things. people are saying that and bad thing are happening. we're going to be looking at that and plenty of other things. >> all right. so last night i turned on the tv and everybody's hair was on fire and. >> what do you think? >> i think he didn't really, he tried to answer the last part of the question. it's not necessarily fair. >> you're right. there's a back story. he was a bertha and still may be. >> it would have been interesting to hear what he thinks about whether or not he still believes that, whether it was entertainment. that's the question. i still haven't heard it. >> it only gives you more credibility when you immediately say wait a minute, we have a lot of things we disagree with. i went back and watched in 2008 the mccain moment at the town hall and he takes the mic out of a woman's hand. check it out. >> i can't trust obama. i have heard about him and he's not, he's an arab. >> no ma'am. he's a descent family man citizen that i happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about. he's not. thank you. >> that was a great moment. i think about what happened, i still don't get that question and the tone of the person. it just sounded almost so cartoonish. but it does remind me of where's that place we go, union square? we always get -- >> there's people still out there. >> look, it happens. >> you always get first. you have a way of dealing. >> when i saw this last night, it reminded me, we did a book event at union square and somebody said george w. bush is a war criminal and killed so many people. i just first of all almost the same exact thing as trump. boy, i know how to pick them. first one. everybody laughs and i let the guy do it and then instead of fighting somebody at that time beginning of my book event i'm like listen, there's no evidence of that, move on. laugh it off and move on. when i saw trump last night, i think if he didn't have the background i would be fine with that response. when they said something about george w. bush killed 3,000 people, when i get a hundred other people that want to ask questions, i'm not going to get into a debate with them. it's on its face and so ridiculous. i think in this place donald trump is going to have to get out there and say barack obama, born in the u.s. a. >> i do think if he continues to be a serious candidate, he's going to have to dress this again. for many americans, they agree with mr. trump. for a lot of other americans this is the biggest thing on his record. >> not the people su portding him right now. >> i think the people supporting him are either like i think he wasn't born in america or i don't know which is what he's saying now. just as far as looking, we were talking before this happened and everybody was asking is this debate going to hurt trump? is this where he starts to go down? this is the sort of thing the media is going to grab hold of this and talk about it. all you do is help donald trump. >> one was about president obama and at that other was about muslims. >> go 90 miles an hour forward and that's fine. i remember when 9/11, the muslim community was going to be set up down 911 area. >> what are you going to do when the government steps in and says that. you go into it and do it aggressively and yeah, that makes sense. i don't think donald is doing himself any favors. yeah, i looked into it. he was born in america but what a horrible presence he's h. >> that's an easy thing. i've seen you. the backdrop of him being the grand marshall. >> that's the fifth time or so he's taken questions from voters. >> i heard this from anderson cooper last night who said playing devil's advocate, he doesn't do this a lot. i can say this is what i do. i've held over a thousand, 2,000 town hall meetings. we've done 500 book events and other things. you do it thousands and thousands and thousands of times. there's nothing you haven't seen before. >> there's more to come on that question. you look at other candidates that do town halls, they're hard unless they're extremely controlled and the questions are screened and planted which i think does happen. >> with hillary, yes. >> for example, chris christie gets torn to sleds and covered with sweat and it's huge. it's amazing, great and makes you good. >> in the words of george w. bush, it's hard. >> trump's campaign said they were referring to the need to protect christian religious liberties as the previous statement says and nothing more. to be clear, the question regarding training camps in this country was we will look into it. >> one of the most heated exchanges in wednesday night's debate had to do with jeb bush and donald trump talking about whether or not they had a meeting years ago. >> the one guy that had some special interest i know of that tried to get me to change my views on something that was generous was donald trump. he wanted casino gambling in florida. >> no i didn't. >> yes you did. i promise if i wanted it i would have got it. >> i know my people. excuse me, one second. when he asked florida to have casino gambling, we said no. >> wrong. >> don't make things up. >> don't cut me off. >> today the associate press is reporting trump did want and did not get casino gambling in florida despite donating money. in interviews, former top state lawmakers described meeting with trump urging florida for a contract. >> a trump spokeswoman replied they never asked him to approve casino gambling. >> are they both right there or what? >> trump wanted it, i believe. he tried to get it but never directly asked jeb bush. >> right, that personally is the qualifier. >> jeb bush has more right than trump about the underlying charge which is that trump gave contributions and wanted something that tfrom the state didn't get it. >> all right. now to the fortune of the show. the continued speculations around the vice president biden. a national review is studying an unnamed source say as good he overheard the senior adviser josh alcorn talking on a phone on a train saying i am a hundred percent joe is in. alcorn later con fermed that the call took plaes. >> you got to be careful. they're always ears. >> go for the quiet car. >> meanwhile, new evidence that bernie sanders is backfiring big time. one of the super packs recently sent out an e-mail linking sanders to remarks made. the website told msnbc that the response was unprecedented bringing in 180 contributions a me minute. >> we know the clinton campaign watches morning show every morning which begs is question. >> i've heard it predicted a dozen times. it will backfire against you. >> it's a real challenge for her if you look at the history of changed front runners. they try attacking the challenger. >> that's what other people do. >> still ahaeld. so much to get to. republican presidential candidate governor scott walker joins us. >> he's upset. he has a reason to be upset. can't wait to talk to him. two or three questions. >> maybe. >> two and a half. >> plus senator kelly challenging her own party when it comes to a possible government shut down. and even president obama was surprised when he won the peace prize in 2009. now a member of the committee says he refwrets the decision. and chaos and parliament explains what set off this melee morning joe back in a moment. selling 18 homes? 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the library never closes. it makes it so much better to do homework when you're at home. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. 21 past the hour. new disclosures combatting isis in syria. the obama administration considering scrapping. the $500 million program to train rebels squlchlt why is? >> they have fighting if syria. that's only a little bit over a hundred million dollars for the serian rebel. >> officials say overhauling the training mission is one of the important changes under discussion according to the kwaul street journal. that comes a day after they told congress the program designed to train 5,000 serian rebels has yielded only four or five. 24 hours after saying it would provide safe passage, it's the -- borders. after 11,000 migrants desperate to reach was shut out. >> the crisis is just spilling out and some point, we make syria livable again or going to be a humanitarian crisis that follows us around for years. >> well, the crisis is going to be with us for a while because when you talk about making syria liveable again, that's no small thing. that's no small thing and if the president ornate toe or someone were to decide today, okay, we're going to do it, we're going to commit all the resources we need, it would still take a long, long time to pacify syria and many lives. >> for a third time yesterday, capitol hill democrats blocked legislation meant to kill the iran nuclear deal in a 56-42 vote, the senate fell short of the 60 votes needed to advance the measure. president obama will likely not have to issue a veto to move the deal forward. >> and this one from the bbc, the former secretary of the noble peace prize committee reportedly writes in his new book that he regrets giving president obama the award in 2009. he said the committee chose him in hopes it would give him a boost in his nuclear disarmament effort but giving him the award did not, quote, achieve the gram -- what they had hoped. >> that was the most ridiculous presentation of a nobel prize. the guy had done absolutely nothing, but i will tell you i think it did inspire him to use drones, at a much, much faster rate than george w. bush had ever dreamed of using. >> because he has an extraordinary sense of irony. >> he was actually sort of chuckling to himself when he got to the point, remember the 2012 campaign, they actually leaked documents that the president of the united states at his desk -- this is in the "new york times," and pick people to kill with drones. >> can i help you? >> i need no help. >> oh, you do. >> on this point, with barack obama winning a noble peace prize in 2009, i need no help. >> all joe is saying give peace a chance. the federal reserve says it will keep interest rates at near zero percent now, citing concerns that the global economy and stock market turmoil. they wanted to see what impact if any those factors will have on the u.s. economy before they decide to lift rates for the first time in a decade. the central bank still expects to raise rates later this year. >> why is it a close call? i don't understand why. there's no risk of overheating in the economy. do you feel the economy overheating? >> there's not that risk and it used to be you could look at the unemployment rates. in the past the fed would say now is a great time to go ahead -- >> because they have the full unemployment rate too. >> you can't do that now because on the same days that you are seeing unemployment is going down, you are seeing that the middle class, the working class, are getting squeezed even more. wages are even more depressed than they ever been. the rich are getting rich and the poor are getting poorer. 5.1 don't mean what 5.1 used to mean. i agree with you completely. this is not a close call. this is not 1983 or '84. this isn't 2004 or 2005. >> right. you are starting at zero. so if you do need at some point to cool down the economy, you got a range of options xing you can do a lot of things, whereas, you know, if you -- i don't know. it just doesn't make sense to me. >> it makes no sense. i don't think it's a close call. >> the chairman made is sound too even in a few weeks we could raise rates. it's been a while since we had a good parliamentary brawl. let's good to japan. here's a member of the opposition waving his colleagues over to physically block the committee chairman from approving a controversial security bill and it is on. >> what? >> the legislation -- >> oh, come on. don't slap. >> bill is expected to pass today. >> the women are getting into it. >> oh, oh, i like that. i like that. >> that's good fun. i would like to see a little more action. when we go -- >> what is wrong with you two? >> ukraine and taiwan -- taiwan, south korea, they know how to do the brawl. >> they don't claw or slap. it's punch. >> it's like -- former president jimmy carter and his wife featured on the kiss cam. last night, during the braves game in atlanta. >> look at this! >> all right. [ applause ] >> the couple did not disappoint. last month, 90-year-old commander in chief revealed that he had been diagnosed with cancer and he and she are two of the nicest people you'll ever know. that is nice. much better than the parliamentary brawl. coming up, one of the people from the republican debate hugh hewitt is here. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." ideas are scary. they come into this world ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. ♪ hi, tom. how's the college visit? does it make the short list? yeah, i'm afraid so. it's okay. this is what we've been planning for. knowing our clients personally is why edward jones is the big company that doesn't act that way. ooñóokñ.??????ó without the internet i would probably be like a c student. internet essentials from comcast has brought low-cost high speed internet into the homes of hundreds of thousands of low-income families. it lets students do homework and study at home. so far more than two million people across america have benefitted. internet essentials is going to transform the lives of families. i see myself as maybe an entrepreneur. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. they covered all the major issues, foreign policy, immigration, even secret service code name. donald trump always says jeb bush is low energy. this is what jeb bush said when asked what his secret service code name would be. >> ever ready. it's very high-energy, donald. [ applause ] >> mr. trump. >> humble. [ laughter ] >> that's a good one. >> that is a good one, jebby. see how proud he was when he gave that hard low five. it's like the bully and the dweeb in an 80s movie realize they are not so different after all. 33 past the hour, joining us is r 2 d 2. you want to show us what's going on here. >> casey brought toys today. you have to bring it down. it's wiggling on me. you are using your iphone to move it around and it has a camera, right? that's crazy. >> yeah, it's a little dicey. you can talk to it, though. it's a trap. >> there you go. casey hunt with toys and the editorial of the washing examiner, hugo gurgen and hugh hewitt. >> willie geist and i have to talk to you, our issue is they kept you locked in the plane most of the night and they gave you two questions. >> were you in first class at least? >> we have problems with the format and we're wondering why you weren't allowed to speak more and why the type of policy questions that you always ask were not front and center in the debate? >> i'm pushing back because i thought the audience speaks for itself. 23 million people for three hours and i got the questions that were most important to me. i got to ask about syria. i got to ask about the burden of the bush name. i got to bring up the national security stuff i wanted to, but i'll tell you this, with 11 people on the stage, we went through the rundown for a couple of days. i'm very comfortable with the fact that you need a quarterback. i was a wide receiver, so was dana, the ball came to us a few times, but i've told all my listeners and followers on twitter don't be upset. the accomplishment was make them talk to each other because debates are about voters watching the candidates and not the hosts and panelists. you can't argue with the numbers. the best news is it was huge and stayed for the whole show. >> it was about making them talk to each other. i want to read peggy noonan. the gift of trump is that just by showing up he makes people watch republican debates. that's true, hugh. that elevates the field. the other candidates are noticed too and get a chance to make an impression. it's enlarging. the cost of trump is that he turns it all into survivor. that trifleses serious candidates. mr. trump has so upped the dramatic ante that the network have jumped in as players, goading dopey candidate number 3 to confront and attack dopey candidate number 4. this is diminishing. they are pup pets in someone else's show, by the way, the trump show brought to you by cnn, that's just me. will they cuff around the democrats around like that and by becoming active players in the drama, do journalists themselves become the newest freaks in what they themselves call the free show? >> wow. hugo, i actually agree with peggy on a few things in there but on the first point that if 2 -- 25 million people watching a presidential debate that's good news. that means 25 million people are paying attention to politics but on the entire show is based on one central character, it changes the dynamic in a way that's probably not good. >> it does change the dynamic, but i think that actually the debate was pretty bad for donald trump. i think that the colossus wobbled on his feet of clay. that technique of getting the candidates to square off on each other didn't work to his advantage at this time. he was evidently not the strongest person on the stage in this debate as he was the previous one. that went to carly fiorina. he lacked the thing that has given him a huge surge since the last debate and i think the clear winner came out as carly fiorina and i think that, you know, he will suffer because of that. >> on that point, she writes that it's diminishing for all of these others. that they are pup pets in somebody else's show. i think the reason why carly fiorina succeeded because she wasn't. i've heard from a lot of republicans who say we're not necessarily sure we would have liked carly fiorina, if she's going to be the person to step on and take donald trump directly and snot become one of his pup pets, fine, we're all into it. >> hugh, i know like me, you like guys like scott walker, are curious about marco rubio. i actually -- when scott walker came out with his first answers, okay, wait a second, this is scott on his toes. this is scott walker i like and i didn't hear from him again for like five hours, until the press conference afterwards. >> has it happened in three hours? >> how do we manage these things better so somebody like scott walker isn't standing will there for three hours and getting two questions? i'm sure you agree with me mike huckabee's answer on iran was fantastic. i would like to hear more of that. >> we had 19 minutes for donald trump, 9 minutes for scott walker. that's unfortunate. what is fortunate, that is the longest sustained conversation about iran and the syrian hell hole that exists there and when you ask donald trump as i did whether or not the congress ought to have backed up the breaking barack obama years ago and marco rubio steps up and takes off, not only does carly fiorina takes off and rubio got the silver. this is not the pros of the networks and cnbc gets the next one, with 11 or 10 people on the stanl, it's very difficult for someone like jake tapper who did a massively job -- marvelous job allocating time. >> i don't think there was enough of that. i think you are uncomfortable being honest about this. >> i sat in that green room for two days and went over all those question sets. i said i would move me up in the a block and i took one question per block as did dana, when you've got 11 people, it's a football field. you never see the guard or the tackle. you got to make sure that the 11 candidates get as much time and by the way if the panel is -- panelists had talked more, those numbers for the candidates would be even smaller. that's the trade-off with 11. what has to happen now is the field has to compress and joe, you are right about one thing, walker started strong. keep an eye on him because he's playing a very long game in iowa. midwestern nice works there. >> hey, hugh, you are very good and inqistive on foreign policy on your radio show and the other night as well. which of those candidates impressed you the most? what did you learn about someone that you didn't know before you walked in? >> i knew that marco rubio had a response. he would not give president obama authority in syria. he wouldn't support it. marco rubio came on my show overnight and one says rubio has to work on his bad answers. he can't come up with one. he is so deeply briefed on the national security stuff and he spends his time in his consecutive up on the hill reading, he does know what a lot of people in the audience wanted to hear. jeb bush has got a lot of kred on national security affairs but marco rubio showed a lot of depth. >> let's talk about carly fiorina. most have said she is the clear winner of the past debate. do you expect a break-out moment from her here? do you expect we're going to be seeing her in the top tier of candidates? >> i do. in the campaign in general she's shown herself to be a force of nature. she's a bit rather like margaret thatcher and she had three great qualities. one, she's terrific on detail. instead of just saying that the military would be the strongest that's ever been, she gave detail about the number of ships that she would be building. she's good on big picture as well as detail. when she turned her attention to planned parenthood, she didn't say this is illegal and this is legal. what she said this is about us as a nation. she was extremely strong. she took that away from donald trump. what she has to do is turn the buzz that she's generated into better poll numbers and turn better numbers into votes and the next two or three weeks are critical for her. >> john kasich, clearly frustrated. what have you heard from john kasich. what have you heard from his camp how frustrated they are that this guy that's surging in new hampshire basically had to scratch and claw to get any words in? >> part of it is the way some of the questions of the debate are framed. kasich is staking his campaign on being the grown-up in the room. christie was much more successful of jumping in the moderators, hey, guys, we need to go back to working people and focus on something other than the infighting here. one thing from covering carly fiorina, she has grown incredibly as a candidate. even some of the interviews that she's done on this show, i think you've seen that evolution. she's gotten much better on stage, in public, she's learned how to handle questions, so different from what we saw when she ran for the senate. if there's a quality you need when you are running for president, that's one of most important ones. >> i saw three events in new hampshire this week, wow, on top of her game, and she really connected. got out into the audience. gave some blistering speeches and connected in a way that i don't think we would have seen her connect some time ago. >> hugh hewitt, stay with us, we're going to be calling you from now on the wide receiver on bear bryant's wishbone attacking team, which means you are not going to get the ball as much as johnny. we may throw it once or twice when we get bored. we're going to use you. stay there if you will. >> governor scott walker by the way is going to be our guest in the next hour. up next, can donald trump buy a foreign policy? david ignatius, says the only position he heard from the republican candidate was a plan to form a new dictator's club with vladimir putin. huh? stay with us. we'll explain that when we come back. ♪ ♪ ♪ i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise. only depend underwear has new confidence core technology for fast absorption and the smooth, comfortable fit of fit-flex™ protection. get a coupon at depend.com when your windshield needs for these parents, driving. around was the only way... ...to get their baby to sleep. so when their windshield got cracked, we can't drive this car they wanted it fixed right... ...so they scheduled with safelite. our exclusive trueseal technololgy means a strong... ...reliable bond, every time. at safelite we stand behind our work... night, night little buddy. ...because the ones you love, sit behind it. that's another safelite advantage. (softly) ♪safelite repair, safelite replace♪ we don't get along with china. we don't get along with the heads of mexico. we don't get along with anybody. i will get along i think with putin and others. and there are few people anywhere, anywhere that would have known those names. i will have the finest team that anybody has put together and we will solve a lot of problems. >> those republican presidential candidate donald trump. >> joining us from capitol hill, columnist david ignatius. david, your new piece is entitled can donald trump buy a foreign policy. explain? >> what do you mean. >> i thought you could hear a little of the air going out of the donald trump balloon on these foreign policy questions. the first clip that you showed where he said i can sit down and talk with putin, i can talk with the chinese. i wrote this morning it was almost like he was proposing a dictators club. i'll sit down with the big guys. i know the big guys. i wrote that maybe he's going to comp them for a weekend at one of his hotels with some free golf thrown in. >> it sounds david exactly like barack obama in 2007 when he said i'll talk to iran whether they want to talk to me or not and we'll do it unilaterally and i'll teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. that's exactly what he had done. >> fair point. if the argument he had been making is i'll engage these leaders in policies i've thought through, that would have been a message, you are right, would have been fairly traditional. it was more just the personal diplomacy. i know these guys. i can sit there. i can talk to them. i thought when he was pressed on specifics, he just didn't have much to say, and you know at one point he said almost, i thought in retreat, i'll know more about this later, by the time i get to the white house, i'll know about these details. i think people watching somebody that unprepared, compared to carly fiorina who was rallying off the number of divisions, battalions and ships, it was a sharp comparison. >> first, just for the rorked i interviewed barack obama in early 2007 before he announced in a senate office about foreign policy, he had all sorts of very detailed ideas about foreign policy situations all around the world. i spent 15 minutes on india-pakistan and that conflict and this and that. i don't think that's really comparable to where donald trump is now. >> i'm talking specifically about donald trump sitting down with the leaders and thinking that he had the power, personality powerful enough to overcome any differences, which by the way fdr made the same mistake at yalta, other republicans through the years have been wearing it and george bush saying he could look into the eyes of vladimir putin. >> i get that. i think -- i guess the question about trump whom we do have to take seriously as a candidate is his argument is essentially, isn't it, david, that he has instincts and haze instincts and his skills will take him, you know, kind of transcend the mere facts on the ground. do you buy any of that? do you think there's -- >> i think that is the essence of who he is and really what he's trying to project. it's the art of the deal. i know how to do this. i'm experienced. i've made $10 billion. i'll get it done. his position which we drew out on this show several weeks ago on the iran nuclear deal, it's a bad contract, but i know how to work with bad contracts. it just feels at this point in the race that he's going to add -- have to add to that art of the deal donald trump some more specific clarity because he's got other candidates who are now learning the language of campaigning better. fiorina perfect example. marco rubio super articulate about what he wants to do and there's a mismatch i've found between them and trump. >> hugh hewitt. >> david ignatius, i asked on the stage jeb bush about his list of foreign policy advisers because it's long but there's also a lot of overlap, then i went to trump and asked him when are we going to get some names? are we going to hear you talk to general mat advertise, general mccrystal. he said soon, very soon. how long does he have, to have a foreign policy guru from who he sat down and taken briefings and studied up on. >> i think the time is now. i thought your questions were great and i also thought the way you tried to corner rubio and the other senators on not having voted to support military force in syria was important, but i think trump is going to have to name those advisers and he's going to have to believably tell us that he understands what they are telling him. where in the republican spectrum is he going to be? is he going to draw a traditional interventionist projecting military power type republicans? is he going to draw a different sort? it's hard to know. we'll know more about him. i thought jeb bush was right in saying where do you look for republican advisers other than to bush 41 and bush 43? those have been the presidents. you can't blame me for going to my own bench. >> when walker comes on later, he's got jim talent, robert o'brien, they are friends of mine. he found some new people. rubio found some new people, are there people out there that are free radicals, david, who haven't signed on with anyone? >> they are not a lot. there are some very senior former republican officials. steve hadley would be an example i think every candidate would love to draw into their fold who may be important in this next phase. you know, i know that there are a number of people from our security agencies, former cia officers who were excited about this race, who really are unhappy with barack obama's presidency, who want to be called on and used. again, in this next period, we'll hear more detail and we'll see the specific people. >> david ignatius, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. hugh hewitt's question to jeb bush as a guy that -- >> i loved his responses. i wanted more. >> i'm a big admirer of jeb bush is disturbing to me. there are more people in washington, d.c. that know foreign policy than people who worked for his father and brother and unfortunately it just -- it overlays a little too neatly there. >> hugh hewitt, thank you very much. >> hue, thank you so much. >> it was those good wide receiver hands. >> wide receiver for one of those buckeye teams under woody hayes. keep it between tackle and we'll be just fine. >> chuck todd and "the new york times," jeremy peters join the conversation, jeremy has front page story this morning on carly fiorina which we're going to dig into. stay with us. ♪ ♪ here's to breaking more glass ceilings in golf and everywhere else. kpmg. continuing our commitment to the next generation of women leaders. what's up mikey?ringing) (beep) play awe♪ome party song. hey buddy i heard you're having a party. what? 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(google voice) here are your directions. michael: i'm gonna throw my own party. the things you love on your phone, available on 11 volkswagen models. turn to roc® retinol correxion®. one week, fine lines appear to fade. one month, deep wrinkles look smoother. after one year, skin looks ageless. high performance skincare™ only from roc®. after one year, skin looks ageless. i was going to the library to do my homework. it was a little bit of a walk to get to the bus stop. i had to wait in line to use the computer. took a lot of juggling to keep it all together. what's possible when you have high-speed internet at home? the library never closes. it makes it so much better to do homework when you're at home. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. coming up at the top of the hour, donald trump has been criticized for saying many things, but now the republican frontrunner is coming under fire for something he didn't say. and will funding over planned parenthood lead to i agovernment shutdown? this morning, the republican leaders are trying to convince ted cruz not to take that route and governor scott walker not too happy with the outcome of the debate. claiming that the media chose the winner before the -- even began, the presidential candidate joins us ahead on "morning joe." you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. at ally bank no branches equalsit's a fact.. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. quicker smarter earlier fresher harder and yeah, even on sundays. if that's not what you think of when you think of the united states postal service, watch us deliver. so something we didn't talk about last hour. you tell me you're really cold, you need heaters all around you. >> yes. >> talking about the reagan debate, those guys were sweating like pigs. i'm a sweater from way back. >> everyone but carly. >> no, i always -- big guy. 6'4". it takes a lot for me to even breathe. >> that might have something to do with your eating hands. >> it was really hot in that room. >> if you're going to have a presidential debate, you know what, it's hard enough for these men and woman to stand on their feet for three hours. to turn it into calcutta, it wasn't fair for them. >> they were making millions and millions, don't worry about the candidates, okay? all right. welcome back to "morning joe." >> rrrow! >> joining the table the "new york times" recorder jeremy peters. in washington, nbc political director "meet the press" moderator chuck todd. >> ac's on here. >> i'm always asleep. i do this show, i'm tired, i hope i didn't dream this. >> yeah, you did. >> did i dream this? or does he have a 5:00? >> every day. >> "meet the press." hourly. >> hourly. >> say, we're going to be with chuck every day. >> you're right, we're going to go hourly. traffic and weather together on the 8s. meet the press on the 9s. >> 5:00. "meet the press" daily at 5:00. >> i'm excited, it's going to be great. >> it's going to be awesome, i'm very excited. >> let's get to poll jurisdictiticks here. there's new evidence suggesting a recent attack on bernie sanders is backfiring on hillary clinton's campaign. one of the super pacs supporting clinton sent out an e-mail linking sanders to remarks made by british labor leader jeremy corbin, including corbin's praise for venezuelan dictator hug goe chavez. the sanders campaign responded by fund-raising off the attack and raised more than $1 million in less than 48 hours. the website that processes donations, actblue, told msnbc the response was unprecedented. at one point bringing in 180 contributions a minute. >> like we said before, you've been warning for some time, attacks against bernie sanders will only backfire. >> particularly ones like this which mccarthy-like tactics, where campaign isn't willing -- or the super pac, this is what we're seeing. i interviewed david brock who's associated with that group and asked him, what are you saying about bernie sanders? what's your point? he wouldn't say. for me, it's illustration of the worst of body worlds for them. bernie sanders raises money off it, gets the high ground. i don't think they did any damage to him whatsoever. >> you call it mccarthy-ite tactics? >> yeah. >> okay. >> meanwhile, hillary clinton mentioned joe biden on the trail yesterday. all but blaming him for a controversial senate vote that she made back in 2001. the vote was for a bill being pushed by credit card and banking interests and would have made it harder for people to get debt relief through bankruptcy. when she was asked about it at a diner in new hampshire yesterday she reportedly said, "it was vice president biden who was the senator from delaware and the republican cosponsor that i was talking with, so i said i'd support it even though i opposed it before." >> oh dear lord. >> oh, man. >> what? chuck todd, does that mean she voted for funding the war before she voted against it? >> look, obviously it was trying to do a little subtle remind tort elizabeth warren wing of the party that, hey, don't you remember? don't you know where joe biden's from? he's from that awful place like delaware that makes it really easy to incorporate and avoid taxes and all that stuff. all those nasty credit card companies that have been ripping off consumers. there was a subtle jab there. but yeah, i think her reasoning is terrible. well, i was really opposed to it but i didn't want to -- what didn't you want to do, disappoint joe bide no one. >> i didn't want to do what i believed in. because someone else -- >> terrible answer. >> somebody asked me to do something that i didn't believe in, so i didn't -- i'm sorry. that's just -- >> i was against it before i was for it. >> i was against it before i was for it. >> don't miss the other part of that which is her little -- that is, this is what joe biden needs to be prepared for if he gets in. delaware -- i mean, she's not going to try to let him outflank her on the left on some of these populist issues. >> it wasn't the only barb she threw the administration's way yesterday. during a town hall in new hampshire she said she's putting the white house on notice when it comes to the keystone xl pipeline. it's a much different tone than she used when discussing the pipeline back in july. people want her opinion on the pipeline. and so they were hoping to get that from her. so here she is from yesterday followed by her july comments. >> i have been waiting for the administration to make a decision. i thought i owed them that. i work in the administration, i started the process that is supposed to lead to a decision. i can't wait too much longer and i am putting the white house on notice, i'm going to tell you what i think soon. because i can't wait. i thought they would have it decided way -- you know, way by now, and they haven't. >> as president, would you sign a bill, yes or no, please, in favor of allowing the keystone xl pipeline? >> well -- as you know, i was the secretary of state who started that process. i was the one who put into place the investigation. i have now passed it off as obvious because i'm no longer there to secretary kerry. i want to wait and see what he and secretary kerry decide. if it's undecided when i become president, i will answer your question. >> wow. >> wow, that's -- >> wow. >> that's hillary clinton the lawyer. right? i mean, that pause there where you can see her brain kind of working like a lawyer and she delivers in excessively lawyerly answers to these pretty simple questions. it's a reminder that sometimes as people around her will say, she really needs to get out of her own way. >> and not on a side issue. keystone has been an issue championed by progressives for over a year now. it's really been a litmus test for a lot of environmentalists. and she's saying she -- i'm not going to tell you what i think right now. >> it is an important issue for a lot of environmentalists and you can say yes or you can say no. but i do think she has to say something at some point. and so now i guess she will. and we'll find out what her position is on keystone. the process has been dragged out, obviously. and it means a lot to a lot of people in terms of climate change in terms of potential pollution, accidents that could happen. people care a lot about this. so we'll see. >> you know, i saw a picture from the back of the room yesterday of hillary's room. will, you saw that right? it wasn't filled. it was not impressive. it certainly didn't look like -- >> jam packed. >> like what we've seen from bernie sanders. not even close to bernie sanders or donald trump or even some other candidates. very, very sparse. >> yeah. i mean, especially when contracted with the enthusiasm you see for bernie and donald trump and the other side. we've become accustomed to seeing large, energetic crowds. i think -- sorry, go ahead. >> on the keystone it's frustrating not just from hillary clinton's point of view but the administration's point of view, the state department study was completed two years ago. >> right. >> they've been studying this for five years. make a decision. one way or the other. and i understand her initial instinct. i'm the former secretary of state, i don't want to bias this skin influenza this. but after five years? it's time to hear what you think. it's time to make a call. >> the state department said that it was actually -- keystone was actually more environmentally safe for a variety of reasons and also that it would create 40,000, 45,000 new jobs. even though they're temporary jobs. i don't know anybody that has a construction job that said, you know what? i'm going to ride this one all the way to retirement. i mean, the very nature of construction jobs -- >> just to get a job on the pyramids. >> the unions want it done too. i don't understand. but -- >> doesn't that tell you what her opinion is? >> it doesn't tell me what her opinion is there and on the other one, the joe biden, i was for it before i was against it. you're exactly right, this is her problem. >> joe, there's another angle to this which is -- explains why the administration has been undecided is that the national -- this is really important to one of our closest allies, canada. canada really wants this the. this has been really important. that's why the national security team, there's been a split in the administration that says, canada doesn't ask for much from the united states, canada's always there for the united states whenever there needs to be an international coalition. before the u.k. signs up, can design s up. there's been a split where the environmentalists are saying, hey, don't do this. the national security saying, hey, is if this is a neutral deal, throw canada a bone, this is an ally that really wants this, it's more important to them than anything. that's why she was undecided on it for a while. i think she was getting lobbied on the diplomatic front. now clearly she's signaling she's going to come out against it or she wouldn't have said what she said. >> exactly. >> that's what explains this indecision in the administration. >> now we have to parse through this and tell everyone what she really meant? >> to chuck's point, we've had canada's ambassador on several times. >> he's so nice. >> he's great. >> they usually are. >> canadians are, they're always nice. >> he's one of the best. explain to me how pipeline 78 is any different than pipeline 77? and you're right, canada wants this. and they don't understand it. so anyway, willie. talking about hillary didn't have a really big crowd yesterday. even though the shot was pushed in rate well there. but there was another scene in another place that was even worse. >> jeb bush went from the debate on wednesday night to las vegas yesterday. the crowd -- i think the "review journal" estimated 150 at its peak. jeb was on stage at that point. that's not an hour before the event took place. so just not a great visual for the jeb bush campaign. >> mark helprin? >> the two legacy candidates are not setting the world on fire. >> they're not. >> and both of them are trying to create excitement around their candidacies. and compared to carson, and compared to sanders, and compared to trump, they're having a big challenge doing it chuck todd, lack at that pict e picture. you have monitor return? >> i do. >> what do you do if you're on jeb's people? what do you do at this point? >> the night after a debate. >> no, i look at -- that's exactly what mark said. this party is -- look, i think one of the things we forget is the republican party still hasn't figured out what to do with the bush legacy. jeb bush by the way at the debate, i think one of the fascinating sidebar stories to the debate, jeb bush doesn't know what to do with the bush legacy. that john roberts answer, he's still doing gymnastics explaining how john roberts is a great supreme court justice, but boy, i don't like process that was used to pick him. you know? it was just complicated. he struggles with it. but the party still hasn't figured out what to do with it. do they want to embrace it? or do they want to kick it to the curb? >> yeah, you're right. and you know, capitol hill, congress is inching toward a government shutdown at the end of the month. and that's obviously going to have an impact on the presidential campaign as well. >> oh, yeah. wednesday night's debate, senator ted cruz of texas said conservatives needed to hold fast against funding for planned parenthood. >> republican leadership in both houses has begun this discussion by preemptively surrendering to barack obama. and saying, we'll give in because obama threatens a veto. obama's committed to his liberal principles, he will fight for them. he says, i will veto any budget that doesn't fund planned parenthood, and republicans surrender. we need to stop surrendering and start standing for our principles. >> but senator cruz is being met with fresh opposition from his own side of the aisle. republican senator kelly ayotte of new hampshire has sent her colleague a letter stating, since we only received 53 votes on the previous vote to redirect money away from planned parenthood, what is your strategy to succeed in actually defunding planned parenthood? which is the point. how do we get to 60 votes? and if for some reason there were 60 votes, how do we get to 67 votes in the senate to overcome a presidential veto? ayotte, a critic of cruz during the 2013 government shutdown, is up for re-election next fall. >> kelly ayotte will be on the show coming up and chuck todd, it looks like we've got a battle brewing again. in the republican house especially. a lot of people asking whether john boehner's going to survive this one. >> it's amazing that we're talking about a shutdown, and none of it is about the white house versus congress. the only reason we're talking about a shutdown, it's republicans versus republicans. they're having -- the only reason there's a shutdown conversation is because the leaders are in one place, the leadership does not want to pick a fight, they don't think they're going to win a fight, they think they'll lose a fight with the white house, they're not even thinking that this is not about the white house. that's what's amazing here. they're just sitting back watching. and this is republicans infighting. i don't know how -- this feels as if -- i don't know what boehner can do to stop this. and i think that there's just going to be this pent-up frustration on the right. the presidential campaign will contribute to it. mitch mcconnell may contribute to it. somehow boehner could pay a price for the senate not being able to do this. simply because there's no mechanism to unseat mcconnell. but there is in the house. and somehow boehner's paying the price for all this. >> gene robinson? >> i absolutely agree with chuck. and you know how well government shutdowns work for the republican party. right? i mean, we all know that. and so i think what the administration can do, and what hillary clinton can do, is kind of sit back and watch it. and watch it, frankly, increase the chances that the next president will be a democrat. >> yeah. >> this is a ridiculous thing for republicans to be doing. they can't accomplish anything except hurt themselves. >> keep it coming. chuck, what are you working on for sunday's "meet the press"? >> we're going to have a few candidates on to talk post-debate. i sat down with jamie dimon, ceo of jpmorgan, we were in detroit. the vice president was in detroit yesterday. there's a lot of -- >> really? >> it's interesting to watch the vice president do some official duties around the country. and then you'll hear from democrats in those cities that perhaps had conversations with people associated with the vice president. it's always -- he goes to a city, he leaves, and i'm sure mark has been experiencing this too, where you get some chatter from local democrats on the ground. hey, i heard x, i heard y, and he supposedly talked with z. look, the one thing about it is, biden's preparing. whether he runs or not is a different story. but they're preparing to run. >> his travel schedule for the last two weeks has been what you'd be doing if you were already a conditioned date. going to key democratic cities, meeting with key people publicly and privately, we shall see. coming up next, republican presidential candidate scott walker and we promise scott right now he's going to get more time to talk than he did in the they-hour debate. that's not going to be hard. we'll just let him talk for 60 seconds and he'll have more time. >> we'll do more than that. >> he did very, very well. we'll talk to him when he comes back. i say we go all in on the internet of things. what we're recommending as your consultants... the 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president. >> at that point, scott, if he'd known that was going to happen, he could have dropped the mike and walked out and eaten peanuts and said, when you're ready to have a serious debate, call me. right now republican presidential candidate, governor scott walker. hey, scott. it's great to have you here. and actually, i was earlier in the debate -- you know, you watch our show. you've had great performances, you've had spotty performances. after that moment, i sat up in my chair. i said, oh my god. he's brought his a-game. this is going to be a great debate. and i'm not saying this to be facetious. then after that, it's like they turned your mike off. it had to be unbelievably frustrating to start out that way and then have the carpet ripped out from under you. >> well, it was. and not so much for me because i thought the american people were short-changed. i mentioned that because i said, hey, we're talking about personalities. we need to be talking about not process but policy. i think there's a real sense of urgency in america. not anger, but urgency, that americans are concerned about the economy, they're concerned about the threats from isis and radical islam, they're afraid the government's come too far into their lives. amongst republicans there's an urgency, republicans told us if they had the house and the senate they'd repeal obamacare, they haven't. those are things we should have been talking about and we didn't. i'm going to be talking about it on the campaign trail, michigan, south carolina, iowa, that's what people want to talk about. >> it's interesting, halfway through the debate, i thought that kasich stepped forward, chrissy stepped forward, they want enough of this nonsense, when are we going to start talking about issues? were you feeling the same way? candidate a said this about candidate c, what do you say? it was like they were trying to start a food fight. >> it really -- joe, you're exactly right. it it really was. that's why i jumped in about the comments about trump. i said, this is what's wrong with this campaign, we're not talking about issues. it was pitting one against the other which for me, one of my sons, my 21-year-old son matthew, made a great insight. he said, after that they didn't ask you a lot of questions because you didn't attack other candidates. i haven't been out on the trail attacking other republicans, i've been attacking hillary clinton, barack obama, which is why, again this week, hillary clinton was attacking me because i've got a plan to stand up nationally and take on the big government union bosses just like we did in wisconsin. i've got a plan to take on obamacare which is why they pushed on me. in fact, i start on day one not only sending my man to congress but signing an order to make congress live under the same rules as everybody else. that would get them acting on repealing obamacare and putting patients and families back in charge of their health care. those are the things people want to talk about. we're going to keep talking about it. >> governor walker, it's willie geist. you said almost immediately after the debate and again yesterday your campaign was going to focus and zero in on the state of iowa, spend more time and resources in that state. in june you on top of the pot, 18 percentage points. looked like you were built for that state. now 3%, a 15-percent drop in a couple of months, what happened there? >> this is about shaking things up. four years ago rick perry was ahead, eight years ago rudy giuliani was ahead. i thought about it the other night at the reagan library. ronald reagan was behind i think something like 8 points six days before the presidential election. so for us polls is pier are going to go up and down. we're going to spend time. we announced 99 counting chairs, we're going to get right down to the grassroots, right down at the precinct level. we'll be this this weekend. i believe we spend time and effort to talk about the economy, to talk about what it means for that family to be where dad works at the factory, mom might work at the local hospital, two kids in school, fighting hard to make ends meet. when we talk about how our plan will help grow the economy -- >> forgive me for interrupting. >> those are things people want to hear about. >> what's your personal diagnosis for that big drop? that's not within the margin of error. 15 points when you were at 18 is a massive drop. >> again, i think it's -- you talk to people in iowa like i did, go out on the road, you'll find people saying, you know what? you're one of my top one or two or three candidates. i think they're interested in me. i think they're interested in ben carson and ted cruz and marco rubio. a lot of those folks in iowa are telling me after these first rounds of debates, there's a lot of good candidates respect what we have to do is make the case between now and february 1 we've got the organization to get voters out to win that caucus and i believe we will win the cau doeses february 1st in iowa. >> governor walker, it's jeremy peters. as you know, congress is embr l embroiled embroi embroiled in this fight over planned parenthood funding and congressional republicans, many of them want to pass a budget that would strip planned parenthood of its funding. if they do that and it goes to president obama, he'll veto it, the government shuts down. do you think congressional government should send him a bill with or without planned parenthood funding? >> this is exactly what's wrong with washington right now. i defunded planned parenthood more than four years ago, in a democrat state, hasn't gone republican for president since 1984, why, it was the right thing then. we put the money into women's health issues away that planned parenthood that weren't controversial. we should be able to do the same thing. pass a bill in the house, in the senate. forget the 60-vote rule. democrats used 51 votes to pass obamacare. >> that's not going to happen. you saw senator ayotte say to ted cruz, who supports what you are supporting right now, that's just impossible, it's is not going to happen. >> that's the problem with the united states senate overall. not just on this issue. they use this archaic rule i think most americans say, in statehouses across america it's a simple majority. i think americans want people to do the things they say they're going to do. obamacare, pass on it 51 votes. send it up to the president, have him veto it. i don't think we should shut the government down. put it on the president's desk and show where his priorities are. hillary clinton and barack obama support planned parenthood. these awful videos show when you're pro-life like me and many americans, i think universally there's outrage with what we saw on those videos. we need to send a clear message. we're for women's health, we just don't want it through a controversial organization like planned parenthood. >> governor mark helprin, in a walker administration would u.s. intelligence agencies use their capabilities to spy on chinese government computers or state-run enterprise computers to try to protect the united states? >> i think we should make sure that our intelligence community have all the assets to make sure americans are safe. when you look at what happened with china, china literally hacking in, the cyber attacks against the united states government, how it exposed millions of americans to their personal information. my point about that was why would we be giving an official state visit, which includes a 21-gun salute on the south lawn of the white house, to a country that's been behind something like that? add to all that the fact that they've gone in international waters and built islands out of the sea in the south china sea. look at their abysmal record when it comes to human rights -- >> would you spy on the chinese? >> again, i would make sure that the united states intelligence community had the assets it needed to make sure that we're safe and we have the information we need to make intelligent decisions about not just intelligence but about our military capacities. with chain nat last decade, they've increased their spending by 150% on their military. the way they're heading, we don't make any changes in our military spending, they're going to have a bigger navy than we do within five years. i think that's a legitimate concern and exposes the fact that the leading from behind mentality of obama and clinton just isn't working. >> all right, governor scott walker, you actually got a chance to talk here. thank you. >> he did, it was great. >> if people want more, scottwalker.com. you can hear about our plan to repeal obamacare and make congress live by the same rules. >> there we go. >> thanks for giving me the time to talk. overheard on amtrak an official with the draft biden campaign makes a private telephone conversation public. apparently spilling the beans on the veep's 2016 plans. 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[overlapping chatter] if only i had a math test today. i'll stay after class. i'll clean the chalkboard. i wish i was in school. man: school ends, but free lunches for your kids don't have to. find your local feeding america food bank for help. i was going to the library to do my homework. it was a little bit of a walk to get to the bus stop. i had to wait in line to use the computer. took a lot of juggling to keep it all together. what's possible when you have high-speed internet at home? the library never closes. it makes it so much better to do homework when you're at home. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. you still have the trump hat up there. he loves winning. have you talked to him? have any advice for his debate tonight? >> no. that was a nice keepsake. could be a nice piece of memorabilia he sent me. >> he's a guy who likes winning like you. think he's got what it takes? >> i hope so. that would be great. there would be a putting green on the white house lawn, i'm sure of that. >> i love winners. we love winners, right? saw a great winner, tom brady. tom brady. right? he endorsed me yesterday. right? everybody up here knows that. that's good. when you get tom, when you get tom you're getting a champ. >> good name to drop when you're in new hampshire. tom brady. nfl last night, chiefs/broncos on a thursday night. let's go to the end of the fourth quarter in k.c., crazy game. broncos answer the chiefs' go ahead touchdown, peyton manning to emanuel sanders, 19 yards. tied, figure we're going to overtime. but 36 seconds left in regulation. instead of running out the clock the chiefs hand the ball off on their next play, jamaal charles is stripped, fumbles the ball, bradley roby returns it 21 yards for the game-winning score. two broncos touchdowns in 9 seconds. >> my goodness. >> shocking kansas city with the 31-24 comeback victory. crazy. coming up next, senator ted cruz leads the charge toward a government shutdown. one of his senate colleagues is asking him, what is your strategy? that's senator kelly ayotte from new hampshire, joins us next. one week from today is our next know your value event in chicago. one week. we have an amazing panel of speakers and guests joining us on the third leg of our tour. we also have upcoming events in boston and orlando. go to msnbc.com/knowyourvalue for tickets and information including the deadline to submit video for a chance to win $10,000 in our next live grow your value bonus competition. that happens on stage, women pitch their value in a minute or less, and it's always incredibly emotional. look forward to next friday. i can't believe we're a week away. we'll be right back. i can't find my discover card! wait, i can freeze my account. 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how do we get to 60 votes? and if for some reason there were 60 votes, how do we get to 67 votes in the senate to overcome a presidential veto? >> senator ayotte, i remember during the last government shutdown, pulling my hair out as a republican, watching our approval ratings go down. i remember you actually being one of the first republicans to stand up and confront senator cruz in a caucus meeting. are we going to get to that point again? or do you think we actually may be able to avoid losing 10, 20 percentage points on the gop's approval rating? >> joe, i hope we can avoid it. that's why i'm asking the question now. i think we've seen this movie before. we know how it ends. it doesn't end well. and in fact, what it does, it ends up costing us more money, disrupting people's lives with no result. that's why i asked the question. i didn't get an answer last time in 2013. so i'm asking it again. what's the strategy for success here? i just don't see it. >> what is the attitude around the senate and also around the house this time compared to last time? have senators, have congressmen, congresswomen, have they learned their lesson from the last shutdown? >> actually, i think in the senate there is a lot of discussion about how the last shutdown did not achieve a result. and if you think about it also disrupted people's lives. and so i hope we don't want to go down that road again. i think it's a fair question. and i've seen -- i saw governor walk over your show before. i guess the question is, after the president vetoes it, what's next? seems to me that we have to be in a position, and if you're running for president, what's your strategy for success here? because shutting down the government is not good for the country. especially if you're not going to achieve a result. >> right. senator, to your point, your question, your letter raises really good questions. and it almost -- you know how this ends. you guys have seen it before. so what do you think this is about? if it's going to end the way it's going to end and we've already seen that, is this about ted cruz? what is it about? >> you know, mika, i think actually i'm tired of the political games on both sides of the aisle. i want to focus on solving problems. so what this seems to be about is that obviously people pushing a position, but with no strategy for success. and it seems to me as a leader that we have a duty to the american people not to shut the government down. how are you going to achieve a result? what's your plan for the country that is actually achievable? how are you going to bring people together to get things done for the country? that's what i want to focus on. that's why i'm asking this question. maybe i'm missing something here on the votes. but we had a vote. we got 53 votes to redirect the money. there aren't 60 votes, much less 67, to override a presidential veto. >> good morning, senator. it's jeremy peters. i've heard a lot of republicans say they don't feel like they paid all that much of a political price during the last government shutdown because fast forward a year and you picked up seats in both houses of congress, you took control of the senate. what do you say to those republicans who feel that way, who think there will be little price to pay if the government does shut down this time? >> i think we should look at what happened. first of all, as joe mentioned, certainly in terms of the numbers, our numbers went down. but that said, we didn't achieve a result. we ended up spending more money. we ended up disrupting people's lives. and there was no result. and i think people want us to focus on actual results. so when people say, last time nothing happened. suddenly we won these gains in 2014. i don't think the gains we won in 2014 had anything to do with that. i think it had to do with frustration about president obama. also unsuccessful rollout of the health care law that people were able to run on. and wanting to make sure that there was a voice that really brought common sense in terms of some of the policies from the administration that were hurting our ability to grow the economy. >> yeah, and you know, on top of that, senator, you'll also remember after the government shutdown ended, that woke up a lot of contributors in the contributor class who said, okay, enough of this. the chamber and other people get involved first in alabama one where you actually had a conservative beat a tea party member. and it's one of the reasons why the tea party had such a terrible time in primaries throughout all of 2014 and mainstream republicans won. and that's why the republican party did so well in 2014. so the tea party ended up hurting the tea party. hey, kelly, it was great seeing you this past weekend. >> great to see you, thank you. >> you've got a lot of supporters up there, very exciting. we appreciate you being with us. >> thanks, joe, great to see you too. thanks, mika. >> i also wonder if -- just the outrage people saw, this is a little bit of what we're seeing with trump and carson. these people are just tired of this. this constant cycle of nothingness. >> and bernie on the democratic side. >> yeah, there's something to be said about that. populism has been historically around for a long time. it's disrupted american politics for a long time. the thing that's amazing to me is how republicans can sit back and do two things. one, actually consider shutting down the government. after what they've learned. because among other things it means the end of john boehner. and there will be a big fight for who the speaker is. and the candidate so far, not what i would consider a statesman. but the other thing is immigration. i mean, this is 17% of the electorate. and growing. what are you doing? we sit back as democrats and say, come on, let's do some more of it. and the other point about money is that the chamber has decided to cut back here. if they decide to shut down the government. it's just crazy. but let them be crazy. >> mark? >> talk about democratic presidential politics. how is joe biden, if he got into the race, less than a perfect candidate? >> how is he less than a perfect candidate? >> what are his weaknesses? >> i think joe's first senate race -- i'm a big admirer of his but keep in mind he's lost twice. joe biden i don't think in the end is going to want to go out in his public career as losing and coming in badly in iowa. there's 7,000 caucus, precincts and caucuses, in iowa. carly fiorina, this hype, i didn't think she did that good a job, but that aside she's got momentum now. momentum means you've got to have expectations go up. she's got big expectations. i'm not sure she's going to do that in the next debate. i know she's not organized. >> jeremy, a front-page article in the "times" about carly fiorina, tell us about your reporting. >> what'd you find? >> i think carly fiorina could be the gop's answer to a lot of the troubles with women, or she's kind of the embodiment of all the troubles that they've had with women. on the one hand, you're not going to have women saying, oh, just because of her gender i'm going to vote for her. i'm going to give a new, fresh look to the republican party. but you have to remember, hillary clinton's popularity especially with women has been sliding as her trustworthiness and questions about how honest she is continue to pile up. so i think that there is an opportunity there for somebody like carly. i'm not saying as the nominee. but as an elder statesman of sorts in the party. maybe that's a vice presidential nominee, who knows. maybe it's more likely something as a -- more of a senior republican spokesman type. >> let's remember fiorina was going to be going after entirely different women. married women go republican, single women go democrat, by big numbers. i suspect that will be the same. but what fiorina said in that debate, what she said on the trail, is not what those single women want to hear. and of course, they want to see government bigger, they want to see the earned income tax credit and the rest of it. hillary clinton has been playing defense her entire life. people who are defense are constantly getting their anything riffs up. when was the last time she was out there and had there and had a positive run? she's been attacked over and over but she survived. >> will she survive this time, hillary? >> oh, yeah. i think so. only because bernie sanders is going to beat her, maybe not in iowa but new hampshire certainly. but when you get to super tuesday, she built a fire wall there that is so big, i would be shocked. >> all right, bob, thank you so much. >> with such brilliant people at the table. >> our breath is taken away every morning. >> especially by jeremy. >> still ahead, a late-night legend is returning to television. plus now there is criticism over who won't play a role in the pope's historic visit. stay with us. the internet of things. what we're recommending as your consultants... the new consultants are here. it's not just big data, its bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪ xerox believes finding the right solution shouldn't be so much work. by engineering a better way for people, process and technology to work together. work can work better. with xerox. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping. ♪ haven't been this lost in years ♪ (gps) ♪ recalculating shortest route ♪ ♪ do i really look like this? ♪ ♪ never seen this one before ♪ chicken parm you taste so good ♪ i like it. ♪ mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm 54 past the hour. pope francis is now set to begin his nine-day trip to the u.s. and cuba tomorrow. the pope is expected to arrive in havana tomorrow in the afternoon and will lead an outdoor mass at revolution square. the pontiff is expected to meet with cuban leaders, clergy and parishioners, but the pope is being criticized by cuban dissidents for leaving the opposition off his agenda. we're also told that vice president joe biden will play a critical role in the pope's visit to the u.s. the vice president, a roman catholic, will join president obama in welcoming the pope at andrews air force base on tuesday. biden will help see the pope off, leading the farewell ceremony in philadelphia. that's amazing. >> a hollywood reporter is saying that david letterman is returning to tv. the late-night host will be appearing in an episode in the documentary series "years of living dangerously," which focuss on tfocu focuses on the issue of climate change. it will air in 2016 on the national geographic channel. >> it was a frightening moment for a bus full of school kids that plunged into a pond. all 27 kids made it out safely. one of their classmates is on the school's safety patrol. >> i grabbed her arms and put her around my neck and brought her to land. then i went back to the bus and got two other kindergarteners and brought them to land. >> "morning joe" doesn't do enough safety stories. >> never. >> is there a kitten caught in a tree somewhere? >> it's a monthly quota. >> maybe we have a squirrel that actually water skis. you do great video, alex. >> wow. >> i always wanted to. they never accepted. >> i bribed my way in. >> i like the sash. something about wearing a sash. >> now this just got good. up next, the trump campaign finds itself in an interesting position, being criticized for something the candidate did not say. >> and did he or didn't he, jeb bush, did he lobby for casinos in florida. and the fed's highly anticipated fed rate decision. we'll be right back. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. what's up mikey?ringing). 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are we going to really start debating or is this going to be like romper room in. >> they announced beforehand they were going to try to start food fights and they did. >> wouldn't it be awesome if they started heated debates about policy. chris christie had a breakthrough moment, too. >> do we want to go that far? >> talking about things that matter? >> it's their responsibility as journalists to do a good job, not make a tv show. >> well, half the debate was either about trump or trump talking and that showed that he disappeared for long stretches. i mean, was he supposed to talk all three hours? >> they would have leaked that. >> if he beginning it was just so stunning. i just started tweeting, really? another trump question? and another? are you kidding me? yeah, we all love jake tapper but there would be like 12 trump questions. he'd go, "next question. donald trump, you said --" >> right in the beginning there were like four, five questions in a row. >> in three hours if you can only ask the governor of wisconsin and the governor of ohio two questions each -- >> it's outrageous. >> last night donald trump followed up his debate performance with a town hall meeting in new hampshire where he turned the mic over to the audience for questions. >> you know what, no speech tonight. let's do question and answer. and you can make them vicious, violent, horrible questions, even though you're sort of probably on live television. how many cameras are lit? i like this guy. >> we have a problem in this country. it's called muslims. we know our current president is one. you know he's not even an american. >> we need this question, this first question. >> but anyway, we have training camps brewing where they want to kill us. that's my question, when can we get rid of them? >> we're going to be looking at a different things, that and plenty of other things. >> last night i turned on the tv and everybody's hair was on fire. and -- >> mm-hmm. >> what do you think, mika? >> he tried to answer the last part of the question. and i think the reason why. >>'s hair is on fire is because the one thing that he has to answer to is the fact that he's always said this about the president and so the hair on fire doesn't -- it's not necessarily fair -- >> you mean the birther thing. >> there's a back story here. he was a birther and may still be a birther, who knows. >> that would have been a great question at the debate. it would have been interesting to hear what he thinks, whether or not he still believes that, did he ever believe that, was it entertainment? that's a real question. i still haven't heard it. >> it only gives you more credibility when you immediately say wait a minute, we have a lot of things we disagree with, he's american, christian, let's clean that up. i went back and watched the 2008 meeting. check it out. >> i can't trust obama. i have read about him and he's not -- he's an arab. he is not -- >> no, ma'am. >> no? >> no, ma'am. he's a decent family man, citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about. he's not. thank you. >> that was a great moment. but i think about what happened. i still don't get that question and the tone of the person. i don't know. >> what do you mean? >> it just sounded almost so cartoonish. but it does remind me of -- where's that place where we go, union square? you always get the truthers or whatever they are and they really are, they think -- i don't even want to tell you what they think about me. >> you have the lyndon marush people out there. >> you always get that and you have like a way of dealing. >> when i saw this last night, it reminded me we did a book event down at union square and somebody immediately got up and said george w. bush is a war criminal, he killed 3,000 people and then they go into the whole 9/11 truth are thing. so i just answer, listen -- i do almost the same exact thing as trump did there, he said "we really need this question," i go, boy, i really know how to pick 'em, i let the guy do it. and then instead of fighting someone at the beginning of my book signing, i say look, there's no evidence of that. i think if he didn't have the birther background, i would have been perfectly fine with that response because when crazies say things about george w. bush killed 3,000 people, when i get a hundred other people that want to ask questions, i'm not going to get into a debate with them. on its face, it's so ridiculous. i think in this case donald trump is going to have to get out there and say barack obama obama born in the usa. >> when he was asked about it lately, he says i'm not running on that, i don't want to talk about it. as we all know, he's not admitted to any mistakes, ever. this would be a big admission for him if he ever had to do it. i think ifies going to be a good candidate, he's going to have toy-to-address it. and for many americans -- this is a dirty little truth -- they believe it this is the biggest blight on his record as a public presence. >> but let be blunt, not the people that are supporting him right now. i think a lot of people that are supporting him are like i think he wasn't born in mrk or i don't know, which is what he's saying now. but just as far as looking -- because we were talking before this happened, everybody was asking is the debate going to hurt trump? is there where he starts to go down. this is the sort of thing if the moodia is going grab hold it and talk about this, all you do is help donald trump. focusing on his performance is actually more harmful. >> what the questioner said was there were kind of two premises. one question was about president obama and the or was about muslims. you just can't, if you're running for president of the united states, you can't leave the thought that you think all mus yims are out there. if donald trump -- i remember when the muslim community center was going to be set up down 9/11 area. you know, all conservatives were freaking out. i went to several conservative groups. i said, yeah, it's going to be down there, it should have been down there. what are you going to do when the government steps in and says catholic -- you go into it and do it aggressively and people go, yeah, that max sense. i don't think donald is doing himself any any favors by saying, yeah, i looked into it, he's a horrible president. >> i've seen you do it. you but the backdrop of him being a birther is hanging offer him. >> that's about the fifth time or so he's taken questions ever from voters. he's going to have to get better. >> i heard this one from anderson cooper last night who said playing devil's advocate -- he doesn't do this a lot. i've held offer 25,000 hall meetings. woo do. >> i don't get where the question came from. >> that's what he said, running for president is hard. it's hard but you got to get good at it fast. >> and i do think you have to look at it through that prism, last night he didn't handle it well. >> number and the questions are almost screened and planted, which i think does happen with one candidate. >> with hillary clinton, yes. >> but chris christie, he's pouring sweat and he gets o there and it's amazing. >> in the immortal words of j.w. bush, "it's hard, it's hard." >> the questioner was rambling referring to the need to protect christian liberties. to be clear mr. trump as response to question -- >> one of the heated debates had to do with jeb bush and donald trump talking about whether or not they had a meeting years ago. >> the one guy that had special interest that i know of that tried to get me to chang my views on something that was generous and gave me money was donald trump. he wanted casino gambling in florida. >> that's not true. >> you wanted it. >> no, i promise, if i wanted it, i would have got it. i know my people. i know my people. excuse me one second -- >> no. >> oh, good, more energy tonight. >> when he asked florida to have ka soon owe gambling, we said no. >> i don't think. >> and that's the simple fact. >> jeb, don't make things up. come on. >> don't cut me off. >> but the associated press is reporting that trump did want and did not get casino gambling in florida. in interviews, former top state lawmakers described the meeting with trump urging florida to sign a contract with a tribe. >> trump's spokeswoman replied mr. trump never asked jeb personally to approve casino gambling. >> the underlying charge was that trump gave contributions and wanted something from the state and didn't get it. >> that was an interesting, change but i predict old failed casino deals in florida will not be a central issue in this campaign. >> yeah. all right. now to the will he/won't he portion of the show involving vice president joe biden. an unnamed source overheard senior adviser uk. the passenger also reported hearing call corn and he did not deny. >> go for the car. >> taxed, taxed. we have new reaction to this morning as fed decision on interest rates. also ahead -- >> i had to break out. >> breaking story right now, police looking for this man. >> murder suspect. >> my name is ashley smith and i'm a mother. >> i don't trust you. do that given and i'll have to kill you. >> the new movie "captive," about a woman who was held at gun point for seven hours. >> she got him to -- she was an addict and it changed her, changed both their lives. >> ashley smith is here with her true story. plus the you're watching "morning joe," we'll right right back. discover card hey! so i'm looking at my bill and my fico credit score's on here. yeah! we give you your fico credit score. for free! awesomesauce! the only person i know that says that is... lisa? 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>> i need no help. >> yes, you do. >> trust me, on this point with barack obama winning a nobel peace prize in tween, i need no help. >> all joe is saying is give peace a chance. >> thank you, both of you. >> the federal reserve says it will keep interest rates locked at near 0% for now, citing concerns about the strength of the global economy and consistently low inflation. janet yellen said the central bank wanted to wait and see what impact those would yellen described it as a close call and said the central bank still expects to raise rates later this year. >> why is it a close call? there's no risk of overheating in the economy. do you feel the economy overheating? i don't. >> well, there's not that risk. it used to be you could look at the unemployment rate down to 5.1%, in the past the fed would say -- exactly in same days wages are even more depressed than they've ever been. 35.1 don't mean what 5.1 used to man. and i agree with you completely. this is not a close call. this is into the 1983 or '84. this isn't 2004, 2005. >> right. and if you do need at some point to cool down the economy, you've got a range of options. you can do a lot of things, whereas if you -- i don't know. it just doesn't make sense to me. >> it makes no sense. i don't think it's a close call. >> the chairman made it sound like even later this year we could raise rates. we'll see what she does. >> it's a been a while we've had a good parliamentary brawl. >> it's been a long time. >> let's go to japan. here's a member of the opposition waving his colleagues over to physically block the committee chairman from approving a controversial security bill and then it is on. >> what? >> the legislation -- >> oh, come on, doesn't slap. >> oh, the women are getting into it. oh, oh! >> i like that. i like that. that's good fun. >> i'd like to see a little more action. >> what is wrong with two? >> the south korean it's like kim thornton -- >> let's move on! >> who gets the biggest bump in the republican debate? up next, our political roundtable. "morning joe" is up next. without the internet i would probably be like a c student. internet essentials from comcast has brought low-cost high speed internet into the homes of hundreds of thousands of low-income families. it lets students do homework and study at home. so far more than two million people across america have benefitted. internet essentials is going to transform the lives of families. i see myself as maybe an entrepreneur. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. >> medical marijuana. >> and toilet paper. >> each and every day. >> all right, joining us now, contributor for the "daily beast" and politico and alex wagner and pulitzer prize editorial winner and martini drink drinker, mark halpert is with us. >> jeff, what do you see. look into your crystal ball. what does the race look like next week? >> we never learn, despite all the lessons of cycles that it is really a fool's errand to try to figure out how people are going to vote four and a half months before the first undemocratic, unrepresentative iowa caucuses take place. so many changes have happened in '08, in '04, in '12, the only thing you can know is there's going to be a big carly fiorina buzz, was she effective -- >> was she effective? >> she was effective as a performer but now is what she said true. you see something on a debate and four and a half months later, it will have much of an impact. >> i will say this, though, south carolina, the game changer for that state, which was supposed to be traditional republican, was newt gingrich. he turned in some amazing debates. >> excuse me, that wass week before the primary. >> i totally understand what you say about the lag time between the debates and the actual voting but we seem to be in unchartered territory insofar as the day after the debate the waters are still incredibly cloudy about who's kind of in front. there's no analog for any other -- usually there will be a reference to goldwater, there will be a reference to nixon. >> well, three hours, for the love of god. >> try predicting ben carson. ben carson, well, kind of for this on immigration, i'm kind of for this on tax -- >> jonathan advised ben carson on that natty suit he was wearing. >> that debate was roaring at a hundred miles an hour and the moment you mens his name and he comes on the stage and starts talking, it slows to five miles an hour. i don't see how anyone can say he won the first debate, i don't see how anyone can say he was effective in the second debate. i think the person who benefited the most from this debate is carly fiorina and i think the person most in danger as a result of her performance and his performance is ben carson. ben carson better watch out because carly fiorina is on his back. >> and yet you gave ben carson a b-plus. >> you messed up. >> i think you guys should spend some time in iowa with all due respect talking to people who like ben karlsson. he speaks in the idiom of the tea party, he speaks in the idiom of we the people. it's easy to sit in new york and washington and say i don't get him but the prove's in the pudding. >> mark, you know, i live in connecticut but i spend a hell of a lot of time talking to republican groups, conservative groups, liberty caucus-type groups. there aren't a lot of republican candidates over the past 30, 40 years that i haven't gotten, and that i haven't been able to predict. he's going to do well, she's going to do well, he's not going to do well. ben carson is not going to do well. while i appreciate your condescension, it does not apply to me. i get republican primary voters, you do not get this ben carson phenomenon. talk to me like i'm a fourth grader. >> have you read his book? have you watched the movie about his life? >> i saw some of the movie about his life but i also saw a great movie about john mccain in 2008. >> there's a cult around him, people who appreciate his life story, people who appreciate his manner. i don't believe i got it either until i started to talk to people about why they like him. they like him for very specific reasons and with an emotional attachment that nobody in the race has. >> but you're giving him a b-plus. his debate performance was almost nonsensical unless i missed something. i mean, i did get bored. it was three hours. it was ridiculous. >> well, those of us who spend time in new york and d.c. know what that means. >> i think there's something about his effect and his story that's appealing. >> how was his debate performance? >> there's a distance from the hysteria or from the overhyped kinds of language that others use that some people found attractive. if we're going to do breezy speculation or the abbreviations thereof, i thought one of the neglected stories here was how ted cruz is hitting every note that the most militant part of the right wing of the republican party cares about. four years ago gingrich did it with dog whistles. >> cruz is doing it by speaking directly to the camera the entire night, which is all you need to know about ted cruz's -- >> when he was attacking roberts and suitor, he was attacking george w. bush, he did not attack kennedy. why? he was appointed by ronald reagan. >> jeff's right that these debates won't in a linear way affect the voting. what matters now is donors. donors want to see confidence. if trump or carson drop because of their debate performances, i will be surprised because they both did what they've been doing to make them popular. >> jonathan is hosting later on mbcsn and alex, stay with us if you can. ♪ it's the final countdown! ♪ ♪ the final countdown! if you're the band europe, you love a final countdown. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. i would kill for something sweet. i know... we could have one of those. one? are you kidding? we'll end up eating like thirty. wanna split that? ughhhh...no, so much fat. don't fight your instincts. with each each for 150 calories or less try our chocolatey brownies, tangy lemon bars, and new creamy cheesecakes. fiber one. go on, have one. what's up mikey?ringing) (beep) play awe♪ome party song. hey buddy i heard you're having a party. what? 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>> it was a little anticlimactic after we were anticipating some type of move and we got nothing. janet yellen decided to err on the side of caution. why? she reported in that she's worried about global developments, name lily what's n happening in china and how that is going to impact the u.s. and explicitly inflation. we're just not there yet. we're not seeing consumer prices like wages, like energy prices rising fast enough to signal this is a hot economy. it disappointed a lot on wall street who were hoping the uncertainty would end. dow futuring aes are pointing t 200-point drop with this continual guessing game with the federal reserve. >> we were talking earlier today and we were wondering why the fed was even considering raising interest rates when unemployment is down and earnings are flat and a lot of questions over this economy. >> the interest rates have been near zero. the economy is growing, 5.1% unemployment is what they would consider near full time employment in this country and they're just prolonging the inevitable. so as sarah said, uncertainty continues. what did surprise wall street was the motion of the global markets, specifically china. the fed kind of put themselves in a box. they still said they anticipate a rate hike this year. how they anticipate china turning itself around this year, i have no idea. at the end of the day, it is only 25 basis points. it shouldn't be earth shattering. >> it must be hard covering wall street and figuring out what's going to happen next because the markets have been schizophrenic. they've gone up 300 points for no good reason, gone down 300 points for no good reason. it's been up down, up down, no trend whatsoever. it seems like everybody on the street are playing a guessing game, too. >> this is is the environment we're in. just to make it more confusing, the dow went up triple digits and then she started speaking and everything turned around. volatility is the new normal right now and that's because not just the fed uncertainty but the uncertainty over china. the question is do the policy makers there have enough tools to manage that slowdown and make it calm and slow their markets. their markets have been going h haywire. we haven't seen a lot of growth. >> a lot of that depends on china. but the fed also is an independent entity, doesn't want to look like it's beholden to the stock market, which i'm not saying it is but you are seeing reactions to what's happened over the last few weeks. >> thank you. coming up next, the incredible true story behind the new hollywood story captive, about a meth addict who was held hostage by an escaped convict. the woman who inspired that story joins us. surprise!!!!! we heard you got a job as a developer! its official, i work for ge!! what? 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>> well, i can't go with the door open. >> i'll turn around. i'll turn around. >> i can't go with you standing there. >> i don't trust you actually. i don't trust you actually. >> okay. >> so what are we going to do? you're going to talk, you're going to talk, right? i'm going to shut the door and you're going to talk. >> hey, hold on! i said we're going to go to mexico, going to get that truck. we're going to go to mexico, got to rob a bank, though. where we go? >> mexico? >> that's right. god, please help me. >> that was a scene from the new drama "captive," which is based on the true story about ashley smith. she was held hostage for seven hours by brian nichols back in 2005 after he murdered four people, including a judge and a sheriff's deputy. joining us now, ashley smith, the former captive of brian nichols and author of "unlikely angel." and it is an honor to have you on. >> thank you. >> from before you were held captive till now, the moments in your life. >> i was in the midst of battling an addiction, had gone through many things in my life. actually that night not on changed me and my love and my experience for god, but it also changed the path that i was on as well. >> so you -- i mean, you started reading to him percentages of "a purpose driven life," right? >> yes. >> i didn't want that clip to stop, first of all. you pulled the book down and started reading passages and it seemed like she calmed the man you play in the film down a little bit, right? >> i definitely think that as i chose not to do drugs that night -- >> in that moment of captivity, he was going to use and you said no to him? >> there's so many different things that happened but i was struggling with an addiction at that time and brian nichols asked me if i had any drugs in my apartment. and i did in fact. he asked me three times, why don'ty do this together -- >> why didn't you? >> i felt jesus christ take the body of brian nichols. i felt like brian was not asking me to do these drug because god was asking me, do you want to take those drugs or i'll change your life. >> how did your change come over brian? >> you know, i immediately when had i said no to the drugs, i began to feel very free. physically i knew that i was still captive but emotionally, spiritually i felt free. and i think i began to see brian nichols through the eyes of god. and i began to see that he was a sinner saved by god's grace. he was struggling the same way i was struggling. >> did you know he had just shot four people? >> i knew he had shot three people. i did not know about the fourth person until later in the evening. >> david, this was a difficult role for you for many reasons, one having to do with america's goon cultu gun culture, it's not a cult you grew up in. and i'm sure in the pubs of london, i'm sure they read rick warren books all the time but this gun culture had to seem a bit foreign to you. >> everything about playing brian nichols was foreign to me. a guy who could kill four people in the morning before actually taking hostage, that was what gave me pause before plague the role. i have to fully immerse myself in the character. i felt that would be tricky with brian nichols. i come from a culture where guns are far less the day to day of life, as we see growingly in live in america, it's pervasive. i still struggle with it, a lot of people struggle with it. >> there was no contact with brian nichols. >> right in. >> what do you think of the finished product? >> when you watch it, it's very close to the way it was. >> was it difficult watching it the first time or did enough time pass? >> to be honest, i wasn't expected emotion. i had lived it, i didn't think there was much more emotion i could feel. the problem was having my daughter next to me when i watched it and trying to figure out what she went through. >> for us it very easy in hollywood to embellish and, you know, inflate what happened but to respect those who had lost and to respect this incredible woman by my side. i wasn't really looking forward to be honest to play brian nichols, but what you have made of your life, how the darkest moment of your life to remarry, have your daughter and -- >> you have had any contact with brian since that day sp. >> no. the on time i saw him was when i testified in court and even then we didn't catch eye contact. >> "captive" is in theaters today. thank you both so much. quicker smarter earlier fresher harder and yeah, even on sundays. if that's not what you think of when you think of the united states postal service, watch us deliver. i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? 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