Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20240702 : vimarsana.com

Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20240702



israel confirms its jets attacked a refugee camp in the north of gaza, saying it killed a senior hamas commander responsible for the murder and kidnapping of israelis on october 7th. a doctor has told the bbc that 120 people were killed and hundreds have been injured. three weeks into this war, yet more anguish for the civilians of gaza. the israeli military says the strike destroyed a network of tunnels it claims hamas built under the jabalia camp — and says hamas is using civilians as human shields. we'll talk live to action aid, who say one of their team's mother, father, brother and sisters were all killed in the strike. and we'll ask a former us general whether washington's support for israel is open—ended and unconditional. also tonight: unfit to respond to the challenges of the pandemic, completely unable to make decisions — borisjohnson�*s top advisers during covid say their old boss was chaotic and dithering. are their claims of the scale of such incompetence worse then some feared? and... our purpose is to amuse, simply to amuse. nothing serious, nothing political. from daleks to downing street. never mind aliens — as the whoniverse comes to iplayer, we ask if doctor who has succumbed to an invasion of politics and social commentary. if you're creating an imaginary world, at some level, it's going to reflect the world you live in. good evening. we start tonight by trying to unpick the details of what we know and are learning about what israel has said was a significant strike this afternoon on a refugee camp in the north of gaza. there are reports that hundreds of people have been killed or injured in the attack by fighterjets on the jabalia camp in north gaza. amongst them, the israeli defense force says it has killed ibrahim biari, a man they say was a commander for hamas and one of the leaders responsible for the coordinated attacks in israel on october 7th which killed 1,400 people. the idf also says the strike killed other senior hamas leaders and destroyed an underground network of the tunnels used by hamas — classed as a terrorist organisation by many countries, including the uk. as we come on air, the details of this afternoon's strike on the densely populated camp are still emerging — and it's currently impossible for us to verify all of the claims being made. a statement from the hamas—run health ministry initially put the number of dead at at least 50, although the palestine red crescent society later said that 25 civilians were killed. tonight, a senior doctor at the nearby hamas—run hospital told our bbc news colleague jeremy bowen there were 400 casualities, including 120 dead. located north of gaza city, the camp is the largest of gaza's eight refugee camps. just over 116,000 palestinian refugees were registered there by the un as ofjuly this year. refugees began settling there after the 19118 war sparked by the establishment of israel. it's a small but densely populated area, with 26 schools in 16 school buildings, a food distribution centre, two health centres, a library and seven water wells. this is footage released by the idf. israel's ground operation continues, and thousands of troops are in gaza involved in what they say are "large battles" with hamas in ground fighting. meanwhile, this is footage released by hamas of its fighters. the israeli military says it is targeting hamas and not civilians. the idf�*s assertion that hamas had built tunnels under the jabalia camp is of course what it says is its justification for striking the site. despite the presence of civilians, whom it says were being used as human shields. israel has vowed to continue its actions inside gaza. joining me now is frankie leach, humanitarian communications co—lead at actionaid uk, who in the past hour has heard that her colleague in gaza. we heard our colleague nuha he was a partner in gaza through an actionaid federation country programme unfortunately let us know today her entire family was killed in the air strike today. entire family was killed in the air strike today-— entire family was killed in the air| strike today._ we strike today. and how is she? we actually have _ strike today. and how is she? we actually have not _ strike today. and how is she? we actually have not been _ strike today. and how is she? we actually have not been able - strike today. and how is she? we actually have not been able to - strike today. and how is she? we i actually have not been able to speak to nuha that much because of the issues with communication at the moment, but the latest communication we got from her are obviously letting us know she survived the attack because until then, we didn't know whether she was alive. this is the kind of thing we were extremely concerned about when the communications blackout happened a few days ago, we waited over 2a hours to find out if our colleagues and friends were still alive. but to be honest, it is awful news just to hear that their entire family has died, i can't imagine what she is going through and i also can't imagine what is going through so many people his family and friends have died in that attack today. fit, have died in that attack today. a doctor has told jeremy bowen 120 people were killed. that is mothers, dads, grandparents, brothers, sisters, kids.— dads, grandparents, brothers, sisters, kids. , ., , , sisters, kids. these are people 'ust like us, if sisters, kids. these are people 'ust like afthis�* sisters, kids. these are people 'ust like us, if this happened * sisters, kids. these are people 'ust like us, if this happened in i sisters, kids. these are people 'ust like us, if this happened in myh like us, if this happened in my community, i would like us, if this happened in my community, iwould be like us, if this happened in my community, i would be devastated, like us, if this happened in my community, iwould be devastated, i don't know how i would get over it and this is what is happening every day in gaza now for 19 days, this has been going on for, 8,500 civilian deaths. we have been calling for a ceasefire for a number of days because as actionaid and other ngos say, there is no way to stop the deaths of civilians without having a ceasefire. these people are not hamas, they are ordinary men and women with families and children trying to survive in what has now become the most deadly place to be a journalist, to be a child on earth. you can't imagine the scale of catastrophe happening already in gaza, outside of the bombing, we have seen critical infrastructure damage, that is not enough access for field damage, that is not enough access forfield hospitals, we have children, babies on ventilators. we have heard today reports from hospitals they are just about to run out of fuel. so if you don't die in an air strike out of fuel. so if you don't die in an airstrike and out of fuel. so if you don't die in an air strike and you are injured, you may die in hospital and if you don't die in hospital, you might die from starvation because that is not enough food. and even if you do have enough food. and even if you do have enough food, you might die because thatis enough food, you might die because that is not enough water. it is just catastrophic for civilians. as ngos, we are at the point of wringing our hands because we can only do so much, we can only communicate what we're hearing on the ground. we can put out press releases calling for a ceasefire and put out statistics on how many people are dying, but what we need is for world leaders to stand up and listen and hear to end the civilian loss of life, we have to have a ceasefire. it doesn't matter what happens after that ceasefire, but in order to stop the devastation that we are seeing, we just have to see a ceasefire, there is nothing else that can happen. you will have heard in the introduction of the israeli defence force saying they killed a senior hamas commander, ibrahim biari, who was responsible for the massacre of israelis on october the 7th and other hamas leaders, and they say they have destroyed an underground structure that was underneath the refugee camp. and that, they say, is justification for what they have done because they have a stated aim of wiping out hamas. i done because they have a stated aim of wiping out hamas.— of wiping out hamas. i understand the need for _ of wiping out hamas. i understand the need for the _ of wiping out hamas. i understand the need for the israeli _ of wiping out hamas. i understand. the need for the israeli government to go after those who are responsible for the attack on october the 7th. but as humanitarians, we abide by international humanitarian law and within that law is the element of proportionality, which means that you cannotjustify and you cannot involve a mass civilian casualty and death in order to achieve aims in warfare, there has to be that element of proportionality. we believe this is a serious potential breach of international humanitarian law and there have been multiple serious breaches of international humanitarian law. so what we are calling on world leaders to do is open the dialogue, have those conversations and ensure civilians are not held responsible for the attacks on october the 7th in the same way we wouldn't expect any civilians to be held responsible for the actions of a government or terrorist organisation.- the actions of a government or terrorist organisation. thank you very much _ terrorist organisation. thank you very much for— terrorist organisation. thank you very much for being _ terrorist organisation. thank you very much for being with - terrorist organisation. thank you very much for being with us - terrorist organisation. thank you very much for being with us this | very much for being with us this evening, thank you. we can speak to generaljoseph votel, who served as the commander of the us central command from 2016 to 2019, overseeing military operations in the middle east. thank you for speaking to us. i wonder can i ask you first your response to the targeting of this refugee camp in northern gaza, general votel?_ refugee camp in northern gaza, general votel? generalvotel? yes, thank you, it's treat to generalvotel? yes, thank you, it's great to be — generalvotel? yes, thank you, it's great to be with — generalvotel? yes, thank you, it's great to be with you. _ generalvotel? yes, thank you, it's great to be with you. certainly, - generalvotel? yes, thank you, it's great to be with you. certainly, the j great to be with you. certainly, the images that we are seeing are not good and they don't help the information because and the support for the israeli campaign here. but we don't know all the facts, we don't know all the details of it. and the israeli military will need to come fourth with that. i think what it underscores however is both the complexity of the situation and the complexity of the situation and the challenge before the israeli defense forces of rooting out a vicious organisation, hamas, that attacked and killed a number of their civilians. but doing it in situations where hamas exploits the palestinian population of gaza, hides among them, hides underneath them, often times takes advantage of them, often times takes advantage of the civilian population ultimately, in my own experience, these types of operations and this type of situation requires extraordinary care. and it will be important for the israelis to explain why the value of this strike was worth the risk that was taken with respect to civilians. . ~ risk that was taken with respect to civilians. ., ~ ., . risk that was taken with respect to civilians. ., ~ .,. ., , civilians. frankie leach raised the oint that civilians. frankie leach raised the point that it _ civilians. frankie leach raised the point that it wasn't _ civilians. frankie leach raised the point that it wasn't proportionate | point that it wasn't proportionate in her view. that even if it is true that a senior hamas commander and others were killed and that underground structures were destroyed, if 120 civilians were killed and hundreds more injured, thatis killed and hundreds more injured, that is not proportionate and that is a breach, she believes, potential breach of international humanitarian law. ~ ., ., ~' ., law. well, again, i think what will have to happen — law. well, again, i think what will have to happen is _ law. well, again, i think what will have to happen is we _ law. well, again, i think what will have to happen is we will- law. well, again, i think what will have to happen is we will have . law. well, again, i think what will have to happen is we will have to | have to happen is we will have to figure out and establish the facts and the details around this. and again, the israeli military will need to explain this to the court of public opinion here for what they have done. i can't make that determination for them. have done. i can't make that determination forthem. i have done. i can't make that determination for them. i certainly understand the point that she has raised and again, i think it's important that we all operate in accordance with the law of armed conflict, which includes the principles of distinction and proportionality. just principles of distinction and proportionality. principles of distinction and --roortionali ., , ., ,, proportionality. just hearing the us secretary of — proportionality. just hearing the us secretary of state _ proportionality. just hearing the us secretary of state antony _ proportionality. just hearing the us secretary of state antony blinken l proportionality. just hearing the us| secretary of state antony blinken is going back to israel this friday, i am told. you, as i understand it, were in charge in 2017 of the operation by iraqi and american forces to retake the city of mosul. that took nine months and it was brutal. will it be the same in gaza? yes, i mean, ourfight in mosulwas an extraordinarily difficult one, it did take a lot of time and i think it demonstrated really the challenges we were dealing with. isis in this case had made some use of subterranean capabilities, certainly not to the extent that we know hamas has done in the gaza strip, but parts of the operation went faster, the eastern part of the city went a little bit faster, but the western side of the city was extraordinarily difficult. it was block by block fighting as you pointed out, it took literally months to dislodge isis, to sort out civilians and to complete the mission. we were aided, however, by a lot of extraordinary humanitarian planning that preceded our military operations. we made good use of the planners that were available to establish humanitarian corridors, set up camps, make sure resources were in place for civilians and then use the iraqi government to help encourage them to get out of the way in advance of military operations. all those things are very necessary for this. and the urban operations i think highlight the importance of humanitarian planning is part of this. it has to go hand—in—hand with the military operations. this. it has to go hand-in-hand with the military operations.— the military operations. thank you for bein: the military operations. thank you for being with _ the military operations. thank you for being with us _ the military operations. thank you for being with us this _ the military operations. thank you for being with us this evening, - for being with us this evening, general votel.— for being with us this evening, general votel. thank you, good evenina. "nobody knew who was in charge". "number 10 was completely unsuitable" for handling covid. the cabinet office was a "dumpster fire". colleagues were "morons", "liars" and — a warning, there's a swear word coming up — colleagues were also "fuckpigs". two of the then pm's top aides — ex—chief adviser dominic cummings and former number 10 director of communications lee cain — laid bare before the inquiry claims of sheer incompetence in downing street and sometimes across whitehall. mr cain said the pandemic was "the wrong crisis" for mrjohnson's "skillset". we learned from a whatsapp mr cummings sent that he thought the cabinet at the time were utterly useless and he admitted that in the run—up to the first lockdown in march 2020, none of them thought about vulnerable groups — people who were minority ethnic, those on low incomes and victims of domestic abuse — were all "almost entirely appallingly neglected". we'll discuss the implications of what we've heard today in a moment. first, here'sjoe — and his report contains more of that strong language. tales of chaos at the heart of boris johnson's government are nothing new. neither is dominic cummings likening the then pm's style of decision—making to "a swerving trolley". 0r, indeed, expletive—laden whatsapp messages between those running the country. but today at the covid inquiry, the swearing really seemed relentless. you called ministers useless all lockpigs, more runs. babbling about chickenpox, god help us. we have got to get helen out. the counsel for the inquiry hugo keith didn'tjust ask dominic cummings about his "revolting" language. but challenged him on his treatment of senior staff. did you treat individuals in downing street with a fence and misogyny, mr cummings? street with a fence and misogyny, mr cumminrs? . , street with a fence and misogyny, mr cumminrs? ., , ., cummings? certainly not. -- with offence. but a whatsapp message about this woman — deputy cabinet secretary helen macnamara — might suggest otherwise to some. she was the second most senior civil servant at the heart of government. there were gasps in the inquiry room at that language. mr cummings said his choice of words was deplorable, but that he was not misogynistic. but it gave us a sense of what life must have been like in such a toxic workplace — full of feuds, rivalry and dysfunction. even at the height of the biggest crisis the uk had faced since world war two. today, we also had the clearest evidence yet of how borisjohnson privately viewed older people. two extracts from the notebook of chief scientific adviser sir patrick vallance suggested mrjohnson was... sir patrick also wrote that the pm... borisjohnson has not responded to a request for comment. elsewhere, mr cummings said mrjohnson's decision to take a holiday in the february 2020 half term was "insane". and there was "no plan" to support vulnerable people affected by the pandemic. but while all these records and whatapp messages give us a valuable insight into minute—by—minute decision—making in westminster, the same clarity may not be available in understanding scotland's response. the country's national medical directorjason leitch has deleted his whatsapp messages, according to newspaper reports. and today at holyrood, nicola sturgeon refused four times to deny she had done the same. the requests and responses at this stage are confidential until the inquiry decides otherwise so i cannot and will not go into the detail of those responses now, that would be to breach the reputation. any messages i had, i handled and dealt with in line with the policy set out by the deputy first minister. set out by the deputy first minister-— set out by the deputy first minister. , ., ., , ., minister. does that mean you deleted some? can you _ minister. does that mean you deleted some? can you let _ minister. does that mean you deleted some? can you let me _ minister. does that mean you deleted some? can you let me finish? - minister. does that mean you deleted some? can you let me finish? i - minister. does that mean you deleted some? can you let me finish? i will. some? can you let me finish? i will be settin: some? can you let me finish? i will be setting out. _ some? can you let me finish? i will be setting out. i — some? can you let me finish? i will b

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