Transcripts For BBCNEWS Signed 20240627

hello, there. on thursday we are electing a new parliament. voters here will choose 18 new mps. we are live from belfast debating the big talking points that matter to go. joining us... gavin robinson, the leader of the dup. we invited the leader of the dup. we invited the sinn fein leader and the party tonight is represented by chris hazzard. colum eastwood is a leader of the sdlp and the leader of the alliance party is naomi long. and we also invited the of the ulster unionists, the deputy leader, robbie butler, completes the line—up. on the order they are positioned in was determined by the drawing of lots. the questions come from our studio audience. largely made up of grassroots party supporters from across all parties standing in northern ireland. we also have a number of undecided voters. at home, join the discussion on social media. a hashtag is #bbcnidebate. i should point out the team of bbc news correspondents are fact checking this debate on the news nite website. let's get started. question one comes from kellie cowen, an electrical engineer from belfast. how do the parties justify voting to cut the health service budget by £184 million? very good first question. sinn fein, you hold the finance ministry, this is your budget. justify it. to you hold the finance ministry, this is your budget. justify it.— is your budget. justify it. to be referred to _ is your budget. justify it. to be referred to the _ is your budget. justify it. to be referred to the coalition - is your budget. justify it. to be referred to the coalition that l is your budget. justify it. to be i referred to the coalition that sits around the election table, there is an understanding in the public that after iii years of tory austerity, public services have been absolutely devastated, there is a lot of goodwill in the public and they see the positive leadership that michelle o'neill and emma little—pengelly provide and i think doctor caoimhe archibald has done good things, moving forward with a 700 million for pay awards for the public sector workers and 25 million put into extending access to childcare and that is a start of a process. the most important thing that has been achieved as a recognition from the british government that stormont has been underfunded and with a new labour government coming into play there is the onus on all mps and colleagues to make sure we get a better deal to invest in the health service and continue with transformation. applause. you say that people are mindful of that. it might be argued that people are much more mindful of the 26% of the population on a waiting list. more than 350,000 people, the average weight is 50 weeks and in england it is 15. it is not unusual to wait for 12 hours in the emergency department, that was unthinkable ten years ago. and 30% of cancer targets are being met, that figure is 64% in england. your party has agreed this budget, were specifically are you cutting the £184 specifically are you cutting the £181; million that kellie is talking about? £184 million that kellie is talking about? ., �* ., . 'f~~ about? you're not cutting £186 million at all. _ about? you're not cutting £186 million at all. it _ about? you're not cutting £186 million at all. it is _ about? you're not cutting £186 million at all. it is an _ about? you're not cutting £186 million at all. it is an effective| million at all. it is an effective cut. the reason _ million at all. it is an effective cut. the reason why _ million at all. it is an effective cut. the reason why the - million at all. it is an effective. cut. the reason why the figures civen is cut. the reason why the figures given is kellie _ cut. the reason why the figures given is kellie is _ cut. the reason why the figures given is kellie is providing - cut. the reason why the figures given is kellie is providing the i given is kellie is providing the end of year from last year rather than the figure at the start and as a result of the work that we did and i started last year in highlighting the fact that northern ireland does not get sufficient funding to provide public services that we need... 15 provide public services that we need... , ., ,, ., need... is that while you were out of government? _ need. .. is that while you were out of government? i _ need... is that while you were out of government? i was _ need... is that while you were out| of government? i was representing the --eole of government? i was representing the peeple at _ of government? i was representing the people at westminster - of government? i was representing the people at westminster and - of government? i was representing the people at westminster and we | the people at westminster and we started the campaign and that meant the executive when it was restored at £950 million to allocate across departments. at £950 million to allocate across departments-— at £950 million to allocate across departments. you are still cutting 184 million? _ departments. you are still cutting 184 million? we _ departments. you are still cutting 184 million? we are _ departments. you are still cutting 184 million? we are not, - departments. you are still cutting 184 million? we are not, that - departments. you are still cutting 184 million? we are not, that is i departments. you are still cutting i 184 million? we are not, that is the end of your — 184 million? we are not, that is the end of your figure. _ 184 million? we are not, that is the end of your figure. since _ 184 million? we are not, that is the end of your figure. since then - 184 million? we are not, that is the end of your figure. since then there was an allocation of 450 million to the department of health, almost 50%, and a question arises and i think your audience and viewers would like to know of the £950 million, if we did not have an allocation towards a department of health or towards the department of education, many police officers were going to be made redundant and how many prisoners would be released and how many special needs children will be left to fight for the provision they need? 950 additional million pounds on the department of health got 50%. we pounds on the department of health ot 50%. ~ ., �* ., pounds on the department of health rot 50%. ~ ., �* ., ., ., ., got 50%. we don't have a lot of time for each question. _ got 50%. we don't have a lot of time for each question. naomi _ got 50%. we don't have a lot of time for each question. naomi long, - got 50%. we don't have a lot of time | for each question. naomi long, gavin robinson mentioned the police officers but what people, i would have thought, they would have expected in this new mandate and i know it is a devolved matter but this is what people have asked us to ask you this evening... where is the plan, given we have had two years of suspension and three years of sinn fein suspension before that, and everything that has happened since the bengoa report in 2016, where is the bengoa report in 2016, where is the executive plan to cut waiting lists, to transform the services? medics and senior health officials say you do not have a plan between you. say you do not have a plan between ou. ~ , ., ., ., ., say you do not have a plan between ou. ,., ., ., you. we should not have a plan between us _ you. we should not have a plan between us because _ you. we should not have a plan between us because it - you. we should not have a plan between us because it is - you. we should not have a plan between us because it is for - you. we should not have a plan | between us because it is for the department of health and for the minister— department of health and for the minister of health... you department of health and for the minister of health. . ._ department of health and for the minister of health... you are on the executive- — minister of health... you are on the executive- we _ minister of health... you are on the executive. we have _ minister of health... you are on the executive. we have asked - minister of health. .. you are on the executive. we have asked for- minister of health... you are on the executive. we have asked for a - minister of health... you are on the| executive. we have asked for a plan in terms of — executive. we have asked for a plan in terms of transformation. - executive. we have asked for a plan in terms of transformation. it - executive. we have asked for a plan in terms of transformation. it is - in terms of transformation. it is correct — in terms of transformation. it is correct to— in terms of transformation. it is correct to say that the closing budget — correct to say that the closing budget of health last year looks like it— budget of health last year looks like it has been cut but what we have _ like it has been cut but what we have not— like it has been cut but what we have not taken into account is during — have not taken into account is during the _ have not taken into account is during the year they are monitoring, they will_ during the year they are monitoring, they will he — during the year they are monitoring, they will be further allegations and that is_ they will be further allegations and that is why comparing the end of year and — that is why comparing the end of year and start of year... i have to finish _ year and start of year... i have to finish this — year and start of year... i have to finish this. there is an increase in health— finish this. there is an increase in health funding, take the start of your position last year and this year— your position last year and this year and — your position last year and this year and if— your position last year and this year and if you go back and look at what _ year and if you go back and look at what has _ year and if you go back and look at what has happened to funding in the executive _ what has happened to funding in the executive over recent years, the department of health has seen a 70% increase _ department of health has seen a 70% increase in— department of health has seen a 70% increase in their budget and the department of education has seen a more _ department of education has seen a more than _ department of education has seen a more than 40% increase in their budget — more than 40% increase in their budget. the department ofjustice has seen _ budget. the department ofjustice has seen around 3% increase. we budget. the department ofjustice has seen around 396 increase. we are talkinr has seen around 396 increase. we are talking about — has seen around 396 increase. we are talking about health. _ has seen around 396 increase. we are talking about health. we _ has seen around 396 increase. we are talking about health. we will - has seen around 396 increase. we are talking about health. we will go - has seen around 396 increase. we are talking about health. we will go to i talking about health. we will go to the audience. _ talking about health. we will go to the audience. health _ talking about health. we will go to the audience. health is _ talking about health. we will go to the audience. health is not - talking about health. we will go to the audience. health is not the - the audience. health is not the department of health, all of us contribute to health and wellbeing and we _ contribute to health and wellbeing and we have to fund all departments fairly if— and we have to fund all departments fairly if we're going to have a healthier_ fairly if we're going to have a healthier and happier and safer society — healthier and happier and safer socie . , society. some people might say the crucial issue — society. some people might say the crucial issue here _ society. some people might say the crucial issue here is _ society. some people might say the crucial issue here is around - society. some people might say the crucial issue here is around health. | crucial issue here is around health. robbie butler, you are nodding your head but you're not prepared to implement that, you are part of this executive, why? you cannot be in or out? you either agree a budget and bring a plan or you walk out and join colum eastwood in opposition with the sdlp? that join colum eastwood in opposition with the sdlp?— with the sdlp? that is not the osition with the sdlp? that is not the position at _ with the sdlp? that is not the position at all— with the sdlp? that is not the position at all and _ with the sdlp? that is not the position at all and help - with the sdlp? that is not the position at all and help as - with the sdlp? that is not the position at all and help as a i with the sdlp? that is not the - position at all and help as a number one issue _ position at all and help as a number one issue on — position at all and help as a number one issue on the _ position at all and help as a number one issue on the doorsteps- position at all and help as a number one issue on the doorsteps and - one issue on the doorsteps and whether— one issue on the doorsteps and whether you _ one issue on the doorsteps and whether you campaign - one issue on the doorsteps and whether you campaign in - one issue on the doorsteps and whether you campaign in a - one issue on the doorsteps and - whether you campaign in a council, assembly— whether you campaign in a council, assembly or— whether you campaign in a council, assembly or the _ whether you campaign in a council, assembly or the westminster- assembly or the westminster election. _ assembly or the westminster election, health _ assembly or the westminster election, health is _ assembly or the westminster election, health is number. assembly or the westminster. election, health is number one assembly or the westminster- election, health is number one topic i would _ election, health is number one topic i would disagree _ election, health is number one topic i would disagree with _ election, health is number one topic i would disagree with naomi - election, health is number one topic| i would disagree with naomi because she contradicted _ i would disagree with naomi because she contradicted herself, _ i would disagree with naomi because she contradicted herself, she - i would disagree with naomi because she contradicted herself, she said i she contradicted herself, she said health— she contradicted herself, she said health was— she contradicted herself, she said health was a — she contradicted herself, she said health was a matter _ she contradicted herself, she said health was a matter and - she contradicted herself, she said health was a matter and bringingl health was a matter and bringing forward — health was a matter and bringing forward a — health was a matter and bringing forward a plan _ health was a matter and bringing forward a plan was _ health was a matter and bringing forward a plan was for _ health was a matter and bringing forward a plan was for the - health was a matter and bringing| forward a plan was for the health minister— forward a plan was for the health minister and _ forward a plan was for the health ministerand then— forward a plan was for the health minister and then she _ forward a plan was for the health minister and then she said - forward a plan was for the healthi minister and then she said health was for— minister and then she said health was for everybody... _ minister and then she said health was for everybody... you - minister and then she said health was for everybody. . ._ minister and then she said health was for everybody... you are holding the health portfolio. _ was for everybody... you are holding the health portfolio. sorry, _ was for everybody... you are holding the health portfolio. sorry, excuse i the health portfolio. sorry, excuse me. the ulster _ the health portfolio. sorry, excuse me. the ulster unionist _ the health portfolio. sorry, excuse me. the ulster unionist party - the health portfolio. sorry, excuse| me. the ulster unionist party have taken _ me. the ulster unionist party have taken health— me. the ulster unionist party have taken health twice, _ me. the ulster unionist party have taken health twice, under- me. the ulster unionist party have taken health twice, under michaell taken health twice, under michael mcgimpsey— taken health twice, under michael mcgimpsey as _ taken health twice, under michael mcgimpsey as well— taken health twice, under michael mcgimpsey as well and _ taken health twice, under michael mcgimpsey as well and sinn - taken health twice, under michael mcgimpsey as well and sinn feinl taken health twice, under michael. mcgimpsey as well and sinn fein and the dup_ mcgimpsey as well and sinn fein and the dup in— mcgimpsey as well and sinn fein and the dup intheir— mcgimpsey as well and sinn fein and the dup in their previously— mcgimpsey as well and sinn fein and the dup in their previously promised | the dup in their previously promised £1 billion _ the dup in their previously promised £1 billion extra _ the dup in their previously promised £1 billion extra on— the dup in their previously promised £1 billion extra on we _ the dup in their previously promised £1 billion extra on we saw— the dup in their previously promised £1 billion extra on we saw a - the dup in their previously promised £1 billion extra on we saw a 2.3% - £1 billion extra on we saw a 2.3% reduction, — £1 billion extra on we saw a 2.3% reduction, we _ £1 billion extra on we saw a 2.3% reduction, we saw— £1 billion extra on we saw a 2.3% reduction, we saw two _ £1 billion extra on we saw a 2.3% . reduction, we saw two executive... sorry— reduction, we saw two executive... sorry to _ reduction, we saw two executive... sorry to interrupt _ reduction, we saw two executive... sorry to interrupt. this _ reduction, we saw two executive... sorry to interrupt. this is— reduction, we saw two executive... sorry to interrupt. this is why - sorry to interrupt. this is why people want to talk about it, it was a number one question. what you are spouting statistics. i have not come to colum eastwood yet. the difficulty is, people do not really want to hear those figures, they want to hear those figures, they want to hear when they are getting their hospital appointments and their hospital appointments and their operations? people are dying and emergency departments on waiting lists. they are getting diagnosed with cancer in an emergency department because they could not get an appointment to be seen. i absolutely agree and the underfunding_ absolutely agree and the underfunding is- absolutely agree and the i underfunding is important absolutely agree and the - underfunding is important but the other— underfunding is important but the other thing — underfunding is important but the other thing that _ underfunding is important but the other thing that has _ underfunding is important but the other thing that has affected - underfunding is important but the other thing that has affected the. other thing that has affected the transformation— other thing that has affected the transformation of— other thing that has affected the transformation of health - other thing that has affected the transformation of health is - transformation of health is abstention— transformation of health is abstention as _ transformation of health is abstention as an _ transformation of health is . abstention as an instrument, transformation of health is - abstention as an instrument, five years— abstention as an instrument, five years of— abstention as an instrument, five years of the — abstention as an instrument, five years of the last _ abstention as an instrument, five years of the last seven _ abstention as an instrument, five years of the last seven but - abstention as an instrument, five years of the last seven but we . abstention as an instrument, five years of the last seven but we doi years of the last seven but we do not have — years of the last seven but we do not have a — years of the last seven but we do not have a minister— years of the last seven but we do not have a minister leading - years of the last seven but we do not have a minister leading the l not have a minister leading the charge — not have a minister leading the charge on— not have a minister leading the charge on transforming - not have a minister leading the charge on transforming healthl not have a minister leading the i charge on transforming health and that will— charge on transforming health and that will affect _ charge on transforming health and that will affect the _ charge on transforming health and that will affect the outcomes - charge on transforming health and that will affect the outcomes of. that will affect the outcomes of people. — that will affect the outcomes of people. we _ that will affect the outcomes of people. we did _ that will affect the outcomes of people, we did not _ that will affect the outcomes of people, we did not take - that will affect the outcomes of people, we did not take our. that will affect the outcomes of- people, we did not take our players off the _ people, we did not take our players off the pitch — people, we did not take our players off the pitch-— off the pitch. what is your plan? ministerial— off the pitch. what is your plan? ministerial leadership, - off the pitch. what is your plan? ministerial leadership, to - off the pitch. what is your plan? ministerial leadership, to work. off the pitch. what is your plan? i ministerial leadership, to work with executive _ ministerial leadership, to work with executive partners _ ministerial leadership, to work with executive partners to _ ministerial leadership, to work with executive partners to agree - ministerial leadership, to work with executive partners to agree the i executive partners to agree the budget— executive partners to agree the budget and _ executive partners to agree the budget and naomi _ executive partners to agree the budget and naomi is _ executive partners to agree the budget and naomi is correct. i budget and naomi is correct. however. _ budget and naomi is correct. however, the _ budget and naomi is correct. however, the finance - budget and naomi is correct. i however, the finance minister budget and naomi is correct. - however, the finance minister has given— however, the finance minister has given a _ however, the finance minister has given a budget _ however, the finance minister has given a budget which _ however, the finance minister has given a budget which does - however, the finance minister has given a budget which does not i however, the finance minister has| given a budget which does not take account— given a budget which does not take account of— given a budget which does not take account of the _ given a budget which does not take account of the pay— given a budget which does not take account of the pay rise _ given a budget which does not take account of the pay rise this - given a budget which does not take account of the pay rise this year- account of the pay rise this year for our— account of the pay rise this year for our staff _ account of the pay rise this year for our staff so— account of the pay rise this year for our staff so we _ account of the pay rise this year for our staff so we are - account of the pay rise this year for our staff so we are faced i account of the pay rise this yearl for our staff so we are faced with the upcoming _ for our staff so we are faced with the upcoming pressure _ for our staff so we are faced with the upcoming pressure where i for our staff so we are faced with| the upcoming pressure where the for our staff so we are faced with i the upcoming pressure where the pay rises for— the upcoming pressure where the pay rises for nurses, _ the upcoming pressure where the pay rises for nurses, doctors _ the upcoming pressure where the pay rises for nurses, doctors and - the upcoming pressure where the pay rises for nurses, doctors and staff i rises for nurses, doctors and staff may not _ rises for nurses, doctors and staff may not be — rises for nurses, doctors and staff may not be met _ rises for nurses, doctors and staff may not be met and _ rises for nurses, doctors and staff may not be met and those - rises for nurses, doctors and staff may not be met and those are i may not be met and those are pressures— may not be met and those are pressures that _ may not be met and those are pressures that those - may not be met and those are pressures that those people . may not be met and those are i pressures that those people face in a cost-of-living _ pressures that those people face in a cost—of—living crisis— pressures that those people face in a cost—of—living crisis with - pressures that those people face in a cost—of—living crisis with all - pressures that those people face in a cost—of—living crisis with all of i a cost—of—living crisis with all of the other— a cost—of—living crisis with all of the other pressures _ a cost—of—living crisis with all of the other pressures people i a cost—of—living crisis with all ofi the other pressures people face. a cost—of—living crisis with all of i the other pressures people face. we need the other pressures people face. need stable government and we the other pressures people face.“ need stable government and we need investment. colum eastwood, the nuffield trust said of the health service in 2022, low productivity, lack of accountability and poor governance. i lack of accountability and poor governance-— lack of accountability and poor governance. i will give you one statistic, the _ governance. i will give you one statistic, the last _ governance. i will give you one statistic, the last time - governance. i will give you one statistic, the last time there i governance. i will give you one i statistic, the last time there was a five year plan you are told it in the health service in the period but 137 million to do with waiting lists, not enough, there is not enough money instrument but remember what we are talking about, the health service has either collapsed or is at the point of collapse and i know people in derry who will go to the credit union to borrow money for simple procedures. if you have suspected alzheimer's in the western trust it takes six years to get a simple diagnosis.— trust it takes six years to get a simple diagnosis. trust it takes six years to get a simle diarnosis. ~ . ., ,, ., simple diagnosis. what are you doing about that at — simple diagnosis. what are you doing about that at westminster? - simple diagnosis. what are you doing about that at westminster? even i about that at westminster? even thou r h we about that at westminster? even though we are — about that at westminster? even though we are in _ about that at westminster? even though we are in opposition and these guys are in government we are happy to work with everybody because this is too important in these decisions are taken at westminster and we need to go with a single voice and ask the british government to properly fund the health service because it absolutely has collapsed. we need real leadership, real resources and we need to take tough decisions. applause. you have been there and you have been unable to get that money. irate been unable to get that money. we sent been unable to get that money. - spent the first five minutes gobbling about numbers but we must be together on this and we can make a strong case to a new british government because otherwise this thing will fall completely. you government because otherwise this thing will fall completely.— thing will fall completely. you said ou need thing will fall completely. you said you need the _ thing will fall completely. you said you need the money _ thing will fall completely. you said you need the money but _ thing will fall completely. you said you need the money but caoimhe. you need the money but caoimhe archibald — you need the money but caoimhe archibald has been to the treasury and for— archibald has been to the treasury and for the — archibald has been to the treasury and for the first time has occurred acknowledgement that stormont is underfunded. and the commitment for additional— underfunded. and the commitment for additional resources, including a negotiation around the devolution of fiscal powers. we want to transform the health— fiscal powers. we want to transform the health service and public infrastructure and public services long—term, we need the ability to invest— long—term, we need the ability to invest long—term. the long-term, we need the ability to invest long-term.— long-term, we need the ability to invest long-term. the bottom line is we have had — invest long-term. the bottom line is we have had five _ invest long-term. the bottom line is we have had five years _ invest long-term. the bottom line is we have had five years out _ invest long-term. the bottom line is we have had five years out of - invest long-term. the bottom line is we have had five years out of the i we have had five years out of the last seven where the two largest parties collapsed stormont with no decisions and i am all for more fiscal powers but high either public going to trust us with that when they cannot even commit to staying in government? applause. the largest two parties on the first day would they not commit to both parties not to bring stormont again? they both refused. irate parties not to bring stormont again? they both refused.— they both refused. we have brought forward proposals _ they both refused. we have brought forward proposals so _ they both refused. we have brought forward proposals so they _ they both refused. we have brought forward proposals so they could i they both refused. we have brought forward proposals so they could not| forward proposals so they could not be collapsed by a single party ever again _ be collapsed by a single party ever again. other parties will not sign up again. other parties will not sign up to— again. other parties will not sign up to do— again. other parties will not sign up to do that. i again. other parties will not sign up to do that-— again. other parties will not sign up to do that. i want to take some comments — up to do that. i want to take some comments from _ up to do that. i want to take some comments from the _ up to do that. i want to take some comments from the audience. i up to do that. i want to take some i comments from the audience. anybody? what do you think? i get comments from the audience. anybody? what do you think?— what do you think? i get frustrated heannr what do you think? i get frustrated hearing about _ what do you think? i get frustrated hearing about money, _ what do you think? i get frustrated hearing about money, constantly . hearing about money, constantly money. there was money there, i work in the community and voluntary sector with women and there was money allocated that was handed back because there was no one here to actually make decisions about how it would be spent. also, one of my biggest frustrations, i have sat in a&e in the last couple of weeks of my father with cancer and it is about how we do things in this country. i have lived experience, i have been bereaved through suicide, with mental health and eye care for family members. we are in a country recovering from trauma. i suppose our mental health system is so behind with a focus on diagnosis, we do not look at the actual causes of human distress and i suppose what i want to know is what is your party going to do? we have the world health organisation and the un calling for a different approach. what is your party going to do? thank you, i will put that point in a minute. ,, , thank you, i will put that point in a minute. , ., thank you, i will put that point in aminute. , ., ., ,, a minute. basically, you have talked about money — a minute. basically, you have talked about money that _ a minute. basically, you have talked about money that you _ a minute. basically, you have talked about money that you will _ a minute. basically, you have talked about money that you will invest i a minute. basically, you have talked about money that you will invest in l about money that you will invest in but what _ about money that you will invest in but what would you do with it? you have _ but what would you do with it? you have not— but what would you do with it? you have not provided a distinct policy about _ have not provided a distinct policy about what the plan for this money is. i about what the plan for this money is i have _ about what the plan for this money is. i have cystic fibrosis and i have — is. i have cystic fibrosis and i have not— is. i have cystic fibrosis and i have not been able to contact my gp, there. _ have not been able to contact my gp, there. how— have not been able to contact my gp, there, how can i trust when i get my vote to _ there, how can i trust when i get my vote to any— there, how can i trust when i get my vote to any of your party is that i will get — vote to any of your party is that i will get direct policies that you are going to discuss here that i will get — are going to discuss here that i will get that value and i feel it is worth— will get that value and i feel it is worth getting my vote to go? thank ou ve worth getting my vote to go? thank you very much- _ worth getting my vote to go? thank you very much. robbie _ worth getting my vote to go? thank you very much. robbie butler, i worth getting my vote to go? t�*iag'ia; you very much. robbie butler, there is a push, not to hear about statistics or budgets or things that go over heads when people want to see a plan. no programme for government, no multi—year planning in the health service since 2011. is that the reason we are in this state? there is no doubt it is multifaceted we are in the region coming out of trauma. the lady touch on mental health and how her family has been impacted. i think the state of mental health of the nation is in the pits because of the politics of this past seven years.— the pits because of the politics of this past seven years. mental health has been- -- — this past seven years. mental health has been--- i— this past seven years. mental health has been... i know, _ this past seven years. mental health has been... i know, but _ this past seven years. mental health has been... i know, but where i this past seven years. mental health has been... i know, but where is i this past seven years. mental health i has been... i know, but where is the transformation of the services that would free up money? irate transformation of the services that would free up money?— transformation of the services that would free up money? we were the first -a would free up money? we were the first party to _ would free up money? we were the first party to put — would free up money? we were the first party to put mental _ would free up money? we were the first party to put mental health i would free up money? we were the first party to put mental health as i first party to put mental health as a policy. in 2019 as part of the new decade approach we brought the mental health strategy and mental health jumping forward and it is a primary focus for us in westminster as well we need a consistent government instalment as well that is underpinned by influence in westminster.— is underpinned by influence in westminster. ., , ., westminster. williamson it is worth askin r westminster. williamson it is worth asking about _ westminster. williamson it is worth asking about that. _ westminster. williamson it is worth asking about that. you _ westminster. williamson it is worth asking about that. you have - westminster. williamson it is worth asking about that. you have said i westminster. williamson it is worth | asking about that. you have said you can't see circumstances. can you 100% so you will not bring the exacted down again? i 10096 so you will not bring the exacted down again?- 10096 so you will not bring the exacted down again? i think it is rood exacted down again? i think it is good stormont _ exacted down again? i think it is good stormont is _ exacted down again? i think it is good stormont is back. - exacted down again? i think it is good stormont is back. it i exacted down again? i think it is good stormont is back. it is i exacted down again? i think it is good stormont is back. it is an i good stormont is back. it is an opportunity to raise some of the issues _ opportunity to raise some of the issues that have been raised. i think— issues that have been raised. i think it — issues that have been raised. i think it was good last night that there _ think it was good last night that there was— think it was good last night that there was progress on a campaign that i_ there was progress on a campaign that i have — there was progress on a campaign that i have campaigned for and colum has campaigned for. you that i have campaigned for and colum has campaigned for.— has campaigned for. you can't see our gp, has campaigned for. you can't see your gp. you _ has campaigned for. you can't see your gp. you can't— has campaigned for. you can't see your gp, you can't get _ has campaigned for. you can't see your gp, you can't get it _ has campaigned for. you can't see your gp, you can't get it for i has campaigned for. you can't see your gp, you can't get it for sign i your gp, you can't get it for sign your gp, you can't get it for sign you are right, tara, and they impact everyone us. you are right, tara, and they impact everyone us— everyone us. everyone of us have family members _ everyone us. everyone of us have family members who _ everyone us. everyone of us have family members who have i everyone us. everyone of us have i family members who have struggled with physical health, mental health, relied _ with physical health, mental health, relied on _ with physical health, mental health, relied on our health service but you are quite _ relied on our health service but you are quite right the assembly was told three months ago that a reform plan would — told three months ago that a reform plan would be brought forward into weeks _ plan would be brought forward into weeks and we are still waiting for is why— weeks and we are still waiting for is why i'm — weeks and we are still waiting for is why i'm going to have to move on i'm is why i'm going to have to move on i'm going _ is why i'm going to have to move on i'm going to— is why i'm going to have to move on i'm going to come onto... serious and significant challenges. i�*m and significant challenges. i'm auoin to and significant challenges. i'm going to have _ and significant challenges. i�*mi going to have to ask you to stop talking. naomi long. the gentleman asked us where _ talking. naomi long. the gentleman asked us where is _ talking. naomi long. the gentleman asked us where is the _ talking. naomi long. the gentleman asked us where is the plan? - talking. naomi long. the gentleman asked us where is the plan? the - talking. naomi long. the gentleman| asked us where is the plan? the plan was set out in the review, he set up very clearly what needed to be done and the truth is that every time health minister tries to progress that, try to do something about it we end up with parties taking up placards and opposing any changes to the health service and any reform. but we can't continue to fund what we have now, we are not doing it. we have a notional health service, not a national health service in northern ireland. and what we need to do at this stage is grasp the nettle, change how we deliver our services, modernise our service and thatis services, modernise our service and that is why we argued for a transformation fund specifically as part of the restoration project so we can start to make that transformation and change is why i will bring in chris hazard on that. the been commended for bringing the fiscal floor raised up to 1.24. what about transformation fund? in the dup manifesto online the health talks about £1 billion to get rid of waiting list. if there is no money there how can we actually change it? it fundamentally gets to the very heart _ it fundamentally gets to the very heart of — it fundamentally gets to the very heart of the issue because the health— heart of the issue because the health is— heart of the issue because the health is not under crisisjust in northem— health is not under crisisjust in northern ireland, it is across britain — northern ireland, it is across britain. dentistry, doctors crisis. 14 years— britain. dentistry, doctors crisis. 14 years of— britain. dentistry, doctors crisis. 14 years of tory austerity has devastated public services. they have _ devastated public services. they have siphoned public wealth out of the pockets of public services and into the _ the pockets of public services and into the pockets of the billionaire class _ into the pockets of the billionaire class it — into the pockets of the billionaire class it is— into the pockets of the billionaire class. it is true for the health system _ class. it is true for the health system. what we need now is the fiscal— system. what we need now is the fiscal levers, we need sustainable funding _ fiscal levers, we need sustainable funding going forward and a commitment from all parties to have a plan _ commitment from all parties to have a plan to— commitment from all parties to have a plan to move forward with transformation. the gentleman asked the question about do you have plans? — the question about do you have plans? i'd — the question about do you have plans? i'd presented plans recently about— plans? i'd presented plans recently about the _ plans? i'd presented plans recently about the future of the hospital, about _ about the future of the hospital, about increasing beds... i�*m about the future of the hospital, about increasing beds... i'm 'ust auoin to about increasing beds... i'm 'ust going to move i about increasing beds... i'm 'ust going to move on, i about increasing beds... i'm 'ust going to move on, i'm �* about increasing beds... i'm just going to move on, i'm sorry. - about increasing beds... i'm just going to move on, i'm sorry. it | going to move on, i'm sorry. it is constituency issues chris hazzard. it is but we do have plans 0k, colum eastwood. it it is but we do have plans 0k, colum eastwood. . . it is but we do have plans 0k, colum eastwood. , . ., , eastwood. it is far worse here than is in england _ eastwood. it is far worse here than is in england because _ eastwood. it is far worse here than is in england because we _ eastwood. it is far worse here than is in england because we didn't - eastwood. it is far worse here than i is in england because we didn't have a government here for five years. when _ a government here for five years. when we — a government here for five years. when we do — a government here for five years. when we do have a government nobody wants _ when we do have a government nobody wants to _ when we do have a government nobody wants to take any decisions. we have to stop _ wants to take any decisions. we have to stop the _ wants to take any decisions. we have to stop the squabbling actually, to clear on— to stop the squabbling actually, to clear on this issue together, go to london _ clear on this issue together, go to london and — clear on this issue together, go to london and fight for more money because — london and fight for more money because there is no other way to do it. because there is no other way to do it the _ because there is no other way to do it. the sooner we get the money we have to _ it. the sooner we get the money we have to take — it. the sooner we get the money we have to take hard decisions as leaders — have to take hard decisions as leaders. ~ . ., ., . ,, ., leaders. we are going to take our second question _ leaders. we are going to take our second question now. _ it comes from carmen grey. how can the leaders regain the trust of the public - after years of political- breakdown and controversy? dup gavin robinson making northern ireland work. it is a bit rich given that you suspended the government for two years. i that you suspended the government for two yew-— for two years. i don't accept that at all and _ for two years. i don't accept that at all and l _ for two years. i don't accept that at all and i think— for two years. i don't accept that at all and i think it _ for two years. i don't accept that at all and i think it is _ at all and i think it is inappropriate of you to put it that way. we would far rather... laughter . we would way. we would far rather... laughter - we would far — way. we would far rather... laughter . we would far rather _ way. we would far rather... laughter . we would far rather have _ way. we would far rather... laughter . we would far rather have had - . we would far rather have had a situation that _ . we would far rather have had a situation that people _ . we would far rather have had a situation that people recognise l . we would far rather have had a i situation that people recognise that this place works properly and positively on the basis of consensus. and whenever unionism collectively in its entirety was indicating that the northern ireland protocol was fundamentally an imposition on the constitutional position of northern ireland... that should have caused the body politic to sit back and say actually we have a problem here. now for as long as nantes it's difficult though because you were saying earlier in the year that the irish sea border... indie you were saying earlier in the year that the irish sea border... we had limited in times _ that the irish sea border. .. we had limited in times of— that the irish sea border... we had limited in times of want _ that the irish sea border... we had limited in times of want to - that the irish sea border... we had limited in times of want to keep i that the irish sea border... we had| limited in times of want to keep the answer is as short as possible and that means everybody feels they have had their say. in terms of the dup's position on all of this, it was this irish sea border and whether or not it has been removed really more important than some of the other things we're talking about tonight, particularly around health that we have just talked about? i particularly around health that we have just talked about?— particularly around health that we have just talked about? have 'ust talked about? i think you will have just talked about? i think you will hear very _ have just talked about? i think you will hear very clearly _ have just talked about? i think you will hear very clearly from - have just talked about? i think you will hear very clearly from me i will hear very clearly from me tonight as you have for months and months that it is good that stormont has returned, it provides the opportunity because of the significant progress that we achieved. but i acknowledge that we didn't set out to the match eve everything that we set out to make. we want to see northern ireland work. does that not mean that we have further work to do? yes, we do and in this election we are asking people to give us the mandate not only to complete the task that we have set output to recognise and build upon the good progress that we have made. because i can assure you of this, it would not have been made without our stance. the availability of human medicines crossing asking them would not have happened without our stance. a recognition of the democratic deficit in northern ireland would not have happened without our stance. on the progress we have achieved whilst others find it easy to complain and do nothing is something that my colleagues and i are seeking a mandate to build on. i are seeking a mandate to build on. i would say your contemporary say would have something to say on that. it's changed because we had a change in downing _ it's changed because we had a change in downing street from an untrustworthy prime minister, multiple — untrustworthy prime minister, multiple prime ministers to one the european _ multiple prime ministers to one the european union felt they could negotiate with. somebody they felt was a _ negotiate with. somebody they felt was a genuine and trusted person to negotiate _ was a genuine and trusted person to negotiate with. it was not because of the _ negotiate with. it was not because of the collapse of the assembly that we got _ of the collapse of the assembly that we got progress in terms of these issues _ we got progress in terms of these issues and — we got progress in terms of these issues. and more than that, the collapse — issues. and more than that, the collapse of— issues. and more than that, the collapse of the assembly has damaged our public _ collapse of the assembly has damaged our public services. there is no question— our public services. there is no question that is the case. as the people _ question that is the case. as the people who work in it applause it has damaged our public finances and it is put us in a very difficult situation. �* . . and it is put us in a very difficult situation. . . , . ., situation. and it has damaged public confidence. that _ situation. and it has damaged public confidence. that is _ situation. and it has damaged public confidence. that is absolutely i situation. and it has damaged public confidence. that is absolutely right i confidence. that is absolutely right because _ confidence. that is absolutely right because people now know our storm and as— because people now know our storm and as it _ because people now know our storm and as it stands today is no more stable _ and as it stands today is no more stable than— and as it stands today is no more stable than it was a day before it collapsed — stable than it was a day before it collapsed the last time. now nobody should _ collapsed the last time. now nobody should be _ collapsed the last time. now nobody should be living with that hanging over their— should be living with that hanging over their heads when we are dealing with serious — over their heads when we are dealing with serious issues like health, education. _ with serious issues like health, education, policing and justice and all of— education, policing and justice and all of those of the challenges. we need _ all of those of the challenges. we need continuity of government. we need _ need continuity of government. we need consistency of our message and our commitment and we need politicians to live up to the promises that they make. and at the very least, _ promises that they make. and at the very least, when they stand for election— very least, when they stand for election to be willing to deliver the government they promised. chris hazzard, the government they promised. chris hazzard. when _ the government they promised. chris hazzard, when it _ the government they promised. chris hazzard, when it comes _ the government they promised. (ct 3 hazzard, when it comes to sinn fein, can you see any circumstances that you would pull the executive down? you are busy brought the executive down for three years? ho. you are busy brought the executive down for three years?— down for three years? no. because aaain i down for three years? no. because again i reiterate _ down for three years? no. because again i reiterate look _ down for three years? no. because again i reiterate look at— down for three years? no. because again i reiterate look at the - down for three years? no. because again i reiterate look at the strong | again i reiterate look at the strong positive leadership that michelle o'neill... and the other parties in the executive so far, they have worked together collaboratively. this isn't easy. again, we are dealing with tory austerity it is not easy. there is huge crisis in education and health but now there is a commitment to work together collaboratively to deliver that. where is michelle o'neill this evening? where is michelle o'neill this evenina ? ., , where is michelle o'neill this eveninu? ., , ., 'j~ where is michelle o'neill this eveninu? ., 'j~ ~ , ., evening? the onus on the 18 mps who are elected next _ evening? the onus on the 18 mps who are elected next week... _ evening? the onus on the 18 mps who are elected next week... the - evening? the onus on the 18 mps who are elected next week... the onus i evening? the onus on the 18 mps who are elected next week... the onus on| are elected next week... the onus on the 18 mps who are elected next week is to work in partnership with ourselves and executive colleagues in order to go to westminster and make the case that additional funding. i make the case that additional fundinu. ., �* . . , funding. i wouldn't mind an answer that question _ funding. i wouldn't mind an answer that question about _ funding. i wouldn't mind an answer that question about where - funding. i wouldn't mind an answer that question about where is i that question about where is michelle o'neill this evening? she will be out michelle o'neill this evening? sue: will be out on michelle o'neill this evening? si;e: will be out on a michelle o'neill this evening? s“i9: will be out on a canvas michelle o'neill this evening? s“i9 will be out on a canvas i have no doubt like every other sinn fein candidate. i am the westminster group lead for the party. i'm delighted to be here. likeably else on this platform i am a candidate next week. we on this platform i am a candidate next week-— on this platform i am a candidate next week. 9 :, :, :, :, next week. we are not going to get into the- -- — next week. we are not going to get into the... there _ next week. we are not going to get into the... there is _ next week. we are not going to get into the... there is a _ next week. we are not going to get into the. .. there is a full— next week. we are not going to get into the... there is a full list i next week. we are not going to get into the. .. there is a full list of- into the... there is a full list of candidates on the website. we are just trying to stay bigger picture tonight and we will do that as a reminder now. colum eastwood, in terms of trust and delivery, the audit office report this year said five, only five out of 77 executive projects are going to be finished on time and within budget. there is so much wastage in the system. if you go through the audit office report is for this year it is pretty stark reading. is for this year it is pretty stark readinu. :. :. is for this year it is pretty stark readinu. :. . , :, is for this year it is pretty stark readinu. :. . ,, , reading. yeah, and if you listen what was asked, _ reading. yeah, and if you listen what was asked, how _ reading. yeah, and if you listen what was asked, how can i reading. yeah, and if you listen what was asked, how can we i reading. yeah, and if you listen i what was asked, how can we trust our leaders? it is very hard when two of them are not even here. we did a debate on sunday night and two of them won't even hear. this is an election. the first rule of an election, if you want to put yourself up in a democracy is to put yourself up in a democracy is to put yourself up in front of the voters and population and let them ask you question and engage in debate. there was no sinn fein candidate at to debate the other day organised by unions. wherever it happens to be there was no sinn fein candidate there. ijust don't understand that. i think the first thing politicians around here tonight could do is all commit not to bring stormont down again but they won't do it. i will ma be again but they won't do it. i will maybe do _ again but they won't do it. i will maybe do a _ again but they won't do it. i will maybe do a yes _ again but they won't do it. i will maybe do a yes and _ again but they won't do it. i will maybe do a yes and no answer on that. what about trust? you have put somebody in as health minister who breached the covid restrictions. the same could be said of sinn fein does well obviously. what about trust from the point of view of your party? i from the point of view of your -a ? ~ from the point of view of your .a ? ~ , :, , ., from the point of view of your .a ? ~' , :, , ., :, party? i think people are right to be suspicious — party? i think people are right to be suspicious of— party? i think people are right to be suspicious of politicians i party? i think people are right to be suspicious of politicians at i be suspicious of politicians at right— be suspicious of politicians at right crosses islands. i think sticky— right crosses islands. i think sticky sewer in northern ireland, the credibility is not there. but primarily— the credibility is not there. but primarily down to the fact that when some _ primarily down to the fact that when some people don't get their way they take their— some people don't get their way they take their players off the pitch and they leave the people to suffer. i disagree — disagree with the leader of the dup in regard _ disagree with the leader of the dup in regard to this.— in regard to this. well, your health minister has _ in regard to this. well, your health minister has left _ in regard to this. well, your health minister has left the _ in regard to this. well, your health minister has left the pitch - in regard to this. well, your health minister has left the pitch at i minister has left the pitch at westminster.— minister has left the pitch at westminster. : :, �* westminster. the impact of brexit, the protocol— westminster. the impact of brexit, the protocol and _ westminster. the impact of brexit, the protocol and though _ westminster. the impact of brexit, the protocol and though windsor i the protocol and though windsor framework.... not going to make the people _ framework.... not going to make the people of— framework.... not going to make the people of northern ireland suffer the political folly. hardly anything has changed in regards to what has been _ has changed in regards to what has been changed because the irish sea border— been changed because the irish sea border still exists, which is a failure — border still exists, which is a failure. and the other thing that i will~~~ _ failure. and the other thing that i will~~~ i_ failure. and the other thing that i will~~~ iwill— failure. and the other thing that i will... i will take offence with is we were — will... i will take offence with is we were busy... will... i will take offence with is we were busy. . ._ will... i will take offence with is we were busy... one at a time for sin and we were busy... one at a time for sign and take _ we were busy... one at a time for sign and take in _ we were busy... one at a time for sign and take in the _ we were busy... one at a time for sign and take in the case - we were busy... one at a time for sign and take in the case to i sign and take in the case to brussels when we learned that the case for northern ireland hadn't been made by those who are supposed to be representing is at westminster. 50 to be representing is at westminster.— to be representing is at westminster. :, . ,, westminster. so i would take everything — westminster. so i would take everything that _ westminster. so i would take everything that gavin - westminster. so i would take everything that gavin says i westminster. so i would take i everything that gavin says tonight with a _ everything that gavin says tonight with a pinch of salt. you demonstrate _ with a pinch of salt. you demonstrate your i with a pinch of salt. i'm. demonstrate your commitment... with a pinch of salt. you _ demonstrate your commitment... one at a time. demonstrate your commitment... one at a time- by — demonstrate your commitment... one at a time- by trying — demonstrate your commitment... one at a time. by trying to _ demonstrate your commitment... one at a time. by trying to leave _ at a time. by trying to leave olitics at a time. by trying to leave politics and _ at a time. by trying to leave politics and abandon - at a time. by trying to leave politics and abandon the i politics and abandon the constituents that you have the privilege to serve. you apply for jobs and you wanted to walk away. we went to westminster, went to the british government and the european union and we achieve our people. we are going to build on that progress. robbie, where is the leader? e had other arrangements _ robbie, where is the leader? e had other arrangements in _ robbie, where is the leader? e had other arrangements in his - robbie, where is the leader? e had other arrangements in his diary. i l other arrangements in his diary. i 'ust other arrangements in his diary. just want to other arrangements in his diary. i just want to take some points from the audience here. do you just want to very briefly come back on that. i would just like to say my question was about— would just like to say my question was about regaining _ would just like to say my question was about regaining the _ would just like to say my question was about regaining the trust i would just like to say my question was about regaining the trust and | would just like to say my question. was about regaining the trust and it was about regaining the trust and it was responded _ was about regaining the trust and it was responded to _ was about regaining the trust and it was responded to me _ was about regaining the trust and it was responded to me there - was about regaining the trust and it was responded to me there we i was about regaining the trust and it| was responded to me there we want northern— was responded to me there we want northern ireland _ was responded to me there we want northern ireland to _ was responded to me there we want northern ireland to work. _ was responded to me there we want northern ireland to work. you - was responded to me there we want northern ireland to work. you are i northern ireland to work. you are saying _ northern ireland to work. you are saying that, — northern ireland to work. you are saying that, we _ northern ireland to work. you are saying that, we have _ northern ireland to work. you are saying that, we have not- northern ireland to work. you are saying that, we have not seen i northern ireland to work. you are saying that, we have not seen it. i saying that, we have not seen it. i'm saying that, we have not seen it. i'm not— saying that, we have not seen it. i'm not seeing— saying that, we have not seen it. i'm not seeing people _ saying that, we have not seen it. i'm not seeing people take - saying that, we have not seen it. i'm not seeing people take our. saying that, we have not seen it. i i'm not seeing people take our seats and our— i'm not seeing people take our seats and our government— i'm not seeing people take our seats and our government working. - i'm not seeing people take our seatsl and our government working. nobody is watching _ and our government working. nobody is watching the — and our government working. nobody is watching the government _ and our government working. nobody is watching the government in - is watching the government in northern— is watching the government in northern ireland _ is watching the government in northern ireland work - is watching the government in northern ireland work so i is watching the government in northern ireland work so howl is watching the government in - northern ireland work so how could you possibly— northern ireland work so how could you possibly want _ northern ireland work so how could you possibly want to _ northern ireland work so how could you possibly want to regain - northern ireland work so how could you possibly want to regain the - you possibly want to regain the trust _ you possibly want to regain the trust of— you possibly want to regain the trust of the _ you possibly want to regain the trust of the public _ you possibly want to regain the trust of the public by _ you possibly want to regain the trust of the public by not - you possibly want to regain the i trust of the public by not making you possibly want to regain the - trust of the public by not making it work? _ trust of the public by not making it work? we — trust of the public by not making it work? ~ o, trust of the public by not making it work? ~ t, , t, , t, trust of the public by not making it work? i, , t,, ,, t, t, work? we are pleased to see stormont return. in work? we are pleased to see stormont return- in the — work? we are pleased to see stormont return. in the first _ work? we are pleased to see stormont return. in the first 100 _ work? we are pleased to see stormont return. in the first 100 days _ work? we are pleased to see stormont return. in the first 100 days it - work? we are pleased to see stormont return. in the first 100 days it was - return. in the first 100 days it was dup ministers that advanced... on childcare. god and lions and communities that has advanced the stadium funding that wasn't there and was held back for many years by sinn fein leaders in this position. and let me also say that as a direct... we don't have our education minister as a candidate and we didn't have any ministers abandoning their pitch after three months. the abandoning their pitch after three months. , , . ., ., , months. the public are right to be see tical months. the public are right to be sceptical because _ months. the public are right to be sceptical because we've _ months. the public are right to be sceptical because we've seen - months. the public are right to be sceptical because we've seen the l sceptical because we've seen the parties either side of maple institutions down. you made a commitment at the start of the year and it was all about getting institutions restored. find and it was all about getting institutions restored.- and it was all about getting institutions restored. and i stand b that institutions restored. and i stand by that commitment _ institutions restored. and i stand by that commitment because - institutions restored. and i stand by that commitment because the institutions restored. and i stand - by that commitment because the rise and fall of the institutions isn't about the job for me. it is about service for the people of northern ireland having those institutions in place whether i am a member of them or not is to me the key issue, the reason i want to go to westminster is because i believe we can tackle two things. the first is the financial challenge that we have just talked about with respect to health but also all our other public services. and the second, is that trust deficit that the institutions will be there in future. we want to see reform of our institutions. that will require the irish government and the british government to show leadership because it is too late frankly for these two parties to say trust us we won't pull it down again. if they meant that meant they would come on board with our proposals so they didn't have the power to. you don't build trust by pretending you have _ you don't build trust by pretending you have not been selected to stand in westminster when you already have~ _ in westminster when you already have~ that — in westminster when you already have. that is not the case. the selection — have. that is not the case. the selection meeting took place in early— selection meeting took place in earlyjanuary and you said that it did not— earlyjanuary and you said that it did not take place. you told them it would _ did not take place. you told them it would take — did not take place. you told them it would take place in future and you had already been selected and you had already been selected and you had to— had already been selected and you had to row— had already been selected and you had to row back. applause. this is not an east belfast debate. i think i deserve the right of reply, given the allegation. i did not have a selection meeting in january, i was selected when the assembly was not setting. i said, not injanuary, you are incorrect. was in december? not in january, you are incorrect. was in december?— not in january, you are incorrect. was in december? if gavin would allow me to _ was in december? if gavin would allow me to answer _ was in december? if gavin would allow me to answer this - was in december? if gavin would allow me to answer this point. i l was in december? if gavin would i allow me to answer this point. i was selected when the assembly was not standing but was clear to those who selected me that i would want to reflect on that position if it was up and running and that is what i have done and i have been open and transparent about that throughout this process. transparent about that throughout this process— transparent about that throughout this process. colum eastwood, the difficulty is you _ this process. colum eastwood, the difficulty is you might say - this process. colum eastwood, the difficulty is you might say it - this process. colum eastwood, the difficulty is you might say it would | difficulty is you might say it would not bring the institutions down but you could not bring them down. tilde you could not bring them down. we never you could not bring them down. , never have when the other two have. we never have and we never would. other people will not commit to not bringing it down again and i find that bizarre because you are telling us how great it is to have stormont back but they will not commit in this election is about westminster and if you listen to some of the things tonight and look at the impact of the dup bring stormont down, do we want to leave the dup on their own at westminster, representing this place? between 2017 and 2019 they were allowed to do that and the only derry accent was gregory campbell and look at the mess they made of brexit! applause. that is the point, our voice in the north of ireland were silenced for 50 years and people had to march in the street and the repeating of the street and we should not be sentencing ourselves, every opportunity we get we should go to westminster and speak up and we should vote for the people and not let the dup speak on our behalf. applause. did you not see an irish nationalist party could not do things at westminster?— party could not do things at westminster? ., ., , , ., ., westminster? that was my idea at the time but we had _ westminster? that was my idea at the time but we had two _ westminster? that was my idea at the time but we had two years _ westminster? that was my idea at the time but we had two years with - westminster? that was my idea at the time but we had two years with the - time but we had two years with the dup on their own at westminster and there was no other voice to speak up against the brexit madness and it was time to send a strong message and more importantly, send hard—working mps and claire hanna and myself have done a good job representing the rest of the north because they have been left out because they have been left out because sinn fein will not go, they are very honest and that is up to them. ., ~' ., are very honest and that is up to them. ., ~ ., ., ., . , , them. you know i go to westminster because we — them. you know i go to westminster because we have _ them. you know i go to westminster because we have set _ them. you know i go to westminster because we have set around - them. you know i go to westminster. because we have set around the same tables _ because we have set around the same tables. �* , ., ., �* because we have set around the same tables. �* ., �* ., tables. but you don't vote, you don't speak. — tables. but you don't vote, you don't speak, you _ tables. but you don't vote, you don't speak, you don't - tables. but you don't vote, you don't speak, you don't attend l don't speak, you don't attend debates. applause. this is not disingenuous. applause. this is not disincenuous. this is not disingenuous. let him make his point. _ this is not disingenuous. let him make his point. i— this is not disingenuous. let him make his point. i have _ this is not disingenuous. let him make his point. i have an - this is not disingenuous. let him make his point. i have an office | this is not disingenuous. let him | make his point. i have an office in westminster and sinn fein travel every— westminster and sinn fein travel every week to westminster and when somewhere championing the hardest brexil— somewhere championing the hardest brexit across a table from the former— brexit across a table from the former prime minister liz truss, i was the _ former prime minister liz truss, i was the only— former prime minister liz truss, i was the only other mp from this part of the _ was the only other mp from this part of the world to be sitting at the other— of the world to be sitting at the other side of the table talking about— other side of the table talking about the need to protect the interests and rights of our citizens _ citizens. applause. head teachers went to downing street in december and i stood shoulder—to—shoulder with the other parties as well and it is disingenuous to say sinn fein do not go to westminster. plat disingenuous to say sinn fein do not go to westminster.— disingenuous to say sinn fein do not go to westminster. not only do we go to westminster, _ go to westminster. not only do we go to westminster, we _ go to westminster. not only do we go to westminster, we are _ go to westminster. not only do we go to westminster, we are the _ go to westminster. not only do we go to westminster, we are the only - to westminster, we are the only party— to westminster, we are the only party in — to westminster, we are the only party in the north... to westminster, we are the only party in the north. . ._ to westminster, we are the only party in the north... with any mps. the chamber— party in the north... with any mps. the chamber is _ party in the north... with any mps. the chamber is generally _ party in the north... with any mps. the chamber is generally empty - the chamber is generally empty whenever... applause. there was a debate in stormont last week about all ardent health. most of that debate there was one out of 27 sinn fein mla is in the chamber. do not care all—ireland health? i thought that was an important debate. the reality is, you are entitled to your view and people vote for you on that but my view is you have to be there and speak up and vote and you cannot let the dup on their own, sammy and gregory and the rest of them be the voice for northern ireland. that is a reality. chris knows that and in my view people will not be left silent. the difficulty is _ people will not be left silent. the difficulty is that people still vote for sinn fein. and they know they will abstain.— will abstain. colin knows about talkin: to will abstain. colin knows about talking to empty _ will abstain. colin knows about talking to empty seats, - will abstain. colin knows about talking to empty seats, he - will abstain. colin knows about - talking to empty seats, he talks to 66 -- _ talking to empty seats, he talks to 66 -- 640 — talking to empty seats, he talks to 66 —— 640 every at westminster. let 66 -- 640 every at westminster. let us hear 66 —— 640 every at westminster. us hear from 66 —— 640 every at westminster. let us hear from joel flannery. all parties and the british _ government acknowledge this place has been historically underfunded. so what's the point - in being part of the union? 0k, ok, naomi long, first of all, you sit on the fence on the constitutional issue in terms of a better future, constitutional issue in terms of a betterfuture, if constitutional issue in terms of a better future, if there was one, in an united ireland. that position is unsustainable, at some point you will have to make up your mind. tote will have to make up your mind. we don't sit will have to make up your mind. , don't sit on the fence, we have a strong position and we are in favour of united community in northern ireland and that is our policy, people within the party spanned views from unionist right through to nationalist and it is representative of the rest of the community. but it of the rest of the community. but if there was a — of the rest of the community. but if there was a border— of the rest of the community. but if there was a border poll— of the rest of the community. but if there was a border poll you - of the rest of the community. but if there was a border poll you will - there was a border poll you will have to take a side on that? late have to take a side on that? we cannot have _ have to take a side on that? , cannot have an united ireland or united kingdom while this place remains divided. our priority is to reunite people in northern ireland and to do the hard yards when it comes to reconciliation. when it comes to reconciliation. when it comes to reconciliation. when it comes to a border poll we want to be part of conversations around constitutional change and we are open to those conversations but we are not going to do is vote along ideologically driven lines and we are about trying to look at the practicalities of what an united ireland might look like unreformed united kingdom might look like in terms of the fiscal arrangements i want to be part of this conversation is because whatever the outcome, it will not be decided by any of us, it will not be decided by any of us, it will be decided by the people. it will be decided by the people. it might be decided by alliance voters but do not go to the ireland's future event and debate and decide and come to a decision. taste future event and debate and decide and come to a decision.— and come to a decision. we were never going _ and come to a decision. we were never going to — and come to a decision. we were never going to be _ and come to a decision. we were never going to be coming - and come to a decision. we were never going to be coming to - and come to a decision. we were never going to be coming to a . never going to be coming to a decision at that event, we were there... we were there to listen and participate and highlight things like, why would we go and have a border poll now when there is no strong proposition? we tried that with brexit and it was a disaster, we need to know what it is we are aiming for and we are happy to engage in shaping it and during the election campaign, time is at a premium and i put my priority in going and being with my candidates. the party was represented, alliance was adequately represented in terms of nuala mcallister, she engaged on theissues of nuala mcallister, she engaged on the issues and our voters can always come back to this issue, green and orange, border poll is, or not, it will not suit the problem is keeping people awake at night, people are not waking up in the middle of the night worried about the border but they are worried about being able to pay their bills, will get their children into a good school, are they going to be able to ensure that they going to be able to ensure that they can get an appointment for their doctor? those are the things that worry people and given the state of northern ireland at the moment and the need for us to focus on working together to deliver change, that is where our emphasis should be. to change, that is where our emphasis should be. ., , ., , , should be. to be fair, it is his question _ should be. to be fair, it is his question and _ should be. to be fair, it is his question and that _ should be. to be fair, it is his question and that is - should be. to be fair, it is his question and that is what - should be. to be fair, it is his question and that is what he l should be. to be fair, it is his- question and that is what he wants in answer to. does naomi long have a point? you don't have a proposition for an united ireland? taste point? you don't have a proposition for an united ireland?— for an united ireland? we are not callin: for for an united ireland? we are not calling for a _ for an united ireland? we are not calling for a border— for an united ireland? we are not calling for a border poll— for an united ireland? we are not calling for a border poll but - for an united ireland? we are not calling for a border poll but it - calling for a border poll but it will come _ calling for a border poll but it will come sooner than people think so we _ will come sooner than people think so we must — will come sooner than people think so we must get ready and that is why i so we must get ready and that is why i have _ so we must get ready and that is why i have set— so we must get ready and that is why i have set up— so we must get ready and that is why i have set up a commission and we are having — i have set up a commission and we are having thousands of conversations and we are working on policy _ conversations and we are working on policy and _ conversations and we are working on policy and this is a very attractive proposition. joel talked about the financial— proposition. joel talked about the financial situation here, this place is an— financial situation here, this place is an economic basket case, let's be honest _ is an economic basket case, let's be honest. , ., ., honest. if it is, in one of the richest economies _ honest. if it is, in one of the richest economies in - honest. if it is, in one of the i richest economies in the world, honest. if it is, in one of the - richest economies in the world, what aboutjoining with the republic of ireland would make it not so? haste ireland would make it not so? have ou ireland would make it not so? have you looked — ireland would make it not so? have you looked at _ ireland would make it not so? have you looked at the _ ireland would make it not so? have you looked at the figures _ ireland would make it not so? have you looked at the figures in the south? — you looked at the figures in the south? billions of pounds' worth of surplus, _ south? billions of pounds' worth of surplus, and i have proposed it to micheal— surplus, and i have proposed it to micheal martin, we have a shared island _ micheal martin, we have a shared island fund worth over1 billion euros, — island fund worth over1 billion euros, narrowwater bridge is getting funded _ euros, narrowwater bridge is getting funded and expansion at magee campus but you _ funded and expansion at magee campus but you never —— and it is easier to -et but you never —— and it is easier to get nroney— but you never —— and it is easier to get money out of dublin than it is from _ get money out of dublin than it is from london these days. what get money out of dublin than it is from london these days.- get money out of dublin than it is from london these days. what is not workin: ? from london these days. what is not working? we — from london these days. what is not working? we have _ from london these days. what is not working? we have seen _ from london these days. what is not working? we have seen the - from london these days. what is not working? we have seen the institutej working? we have seen the institute of european affairs saying any vote for an united ireland would lead to a drop in living standards and the economics are very complicated. it is ok if the uk government paid pensions. because people paid into them. ~ , ., , them. whenever people paid into this pensions- -- — them. whenever people paid into this pensions- -- we _ them. whenever people paid into this pensions... we are _ them. whenever people paid into this pensions... we are working _ them. whenever people paid into this pensions... we are working on - them. whenever people paid into this pensions... we are working on a - pensions... we are working on a proposition and this has to be about the opportunity rejoin the european union but the talks and conversations were having have to a process of reconciliation, it has to be about bringing people together again because a division in the society, iommi is right, it must be solved but it is not one of the other on the opportunity to give people a better standard of life and be part of a thriving economy, and a better standard of life. people in the south are getting paid twice as much as in the north. but they pay ve hiuh much as in the north. but they pay very high rents _ much as in the north. but they pay very high rents and _ much as in the north. but they pay very high rents and it _ much as in the north. but they pay very high rents and it is _ much as in the north. but they pay very high rents and it is difficult - very high rents and it is difficult to get a house.— to get a house. there is full employment _ to get a house. there is full employment and _ to get a house. there is full employment and a - to get a house. there is full employment and a massive| to get a house. there is full _ employment and a massive opportunity across this island and we have to do across this island and we have to do a lot of work to convince people but thatis a lot of work to convince people but that is a job we are involved in, we have a position and others do and i hope naomi and others come to that. gavin, do you accept we have been chronically underfunded by the british government? i chronically underfunded by the british government?— chronically underfunded by the british government? i started this conversation- _ british government? i started this conversation. i— british government? i started this conversation. i was _ british government? i started this conversation. i was the _ british government? i started this conversation. i was the one - british government? i started this conversation. i was the one who i british government? i started this i conversation. i was the one who led on this— conversation. i was the one who led on this campaign... in westminster, i on this campaign... in westminster, i was _ on this campaign... in westminster, i was taking — on this campaign... in westminster, i was taking away from other issues and it— i was taking away from other issues and it took— i was taking away from other issues and it took a — i was taking away from other issues and it took a full year to get other parties _ and it took a full year to get other parties behind, to recognise the work— parties behind, to recognise the work of— parties behind, to recognise the work of the fiscal council and see the changes that were required but let us— the changes that were required but let us be _ the changes that were required but let us be clear, we benefit from being _ let us be clear, we benefit from being part — let us be clear, we benefit from being part of the fifth largest economy in the world. in being part of the fifth largest economy in the world. in what way if we are so chronically _ economy in the world. in what way if we are so chronically underfunded? l we are so chronically underfunded? you need to compare and contrast, you have _ you need to compare and contrast, you have not — you need to compare and contrast, you have not looked at the opportunities, with all of the problems the nhs has and the cost implications of the health service south _ implications of the health service south of— implications of the health service south of the border, the cost for individuals— south of the border, the cost for individuals of prescriptions and doctor— individuals of prescriptions and doctor appointments and a gp appointment. we do not pay for this year because we have the nhs and we are good _ year because we have the nhs and we are good at— year because we have the nhs and we are good at talking sometimes things down in _ are good at talking sometimes things down in the last number of years we have seen— down in the last number of years we have seen one point to billion poundsm _ have seen one point to billion pounds... and levelling up funding throughout northern ireland, we have the benefit _ throughout northern ireland, we have the benefit of the fifth—largest economy and could achieve for northern— economy and could achieve for northern ireland not only through direct— northern ireland not only through direct spending and arguing... the levellin: direct spending and arguing... levelling up direct spending and arguing... ice: levelling up funding has direct spending and arguing... ii9: levelling up funding has been direct spending and arguing... i““i9 levelling up funding has been a disaster. ~ :, , :, ., levelling up funding has been a disaster. ~ :, ., :, disaster. would you say that for the millions that _ disaster. would you say that for the millions that have _ disaster. would you say that for the millions that have been _ disaster. would you say that for the millions that have been invested... | millions that have been invested... it is millions that have been invested... it is much, — millions that have been invested... it is much, much less. and we had under eu funding. i it is much, much less. and we had under eu funding.— under eu funding. i am being interrupted. _ under eu funding. i am being interrupted. naomi, - under eu funding. i am being interrupted. naomi, on - under eu funding. i am being interrupted. naomi, on that. under eu funding. i am being - interrupted. naomi, on that specific oint? interrupted. naomi, on that specific point? levelling _ interrupted. naomi, on that specific point? levelling up— interrupted. naomi, on that specific point? levelling up andy _ interrupted. naomi, on that specific point? levelling up andy shared - point? levelling up andy shared proseri point? levelling up andy shared prosperity fund _ point? levelling up andy shared prosperity fund is _ point? levelling up andy shared prosperity fund is not _ point? levelling up andy shared prosperity fund is not benefited| point? levelling up andy shared - prosperity fund is not benefited us, they are not aligned with our objectives as... they are not targeted at the right issues and when they were asked to be devolved with other funding to do the alignment and support community and voluntary sectors, but was rejected, we are worse off because we no longer have the european funding available in the illusion of the levelling up and shared prosperity fund has not delivered in northern ireland in the way that it should, either good projects? there are. would they have been funded under european funding? of course. applause. give me an example? applause. give me an examle? ~ :, applause. give me an examle? . ., :, give me an example? what do you get from us? we — give me an example? what do you get from us? we will— give me an example? what do you get from us? we will speak— give me an example? what do you get from us? we will speak out _ give me an example? what do you get from us? we will speak out for- give me an example? what do you get from us? we will speak out for our- from us? we will speak out for our constituents across northern ireland~ _ constituents across northern ireland. a constituents across northern ireland. : ,, : : constituents across northern ireland. : ,_ .. ., ireland. a specific pro'ect that you levellin: ireland. a specific pro'ect that you leveling up * ireland. a specific pro'ect that you levelling up funding, _ ireland. a specific project that you levelling up funding, you - ireland. a specific project that you levelling up funding, you say - ireland. a specific project that you levelling up funding, you say it. ireland. a specific project that you | levelling up funding, you say it has helped, naomi long says not, can you give us a specific example? �*iz helped, naomi long says not, can you give us a specific example?— give us a specific example? 12 point million pounds _ give us a specific example? 12 point million pounds for _ give us a specific example? 12 point million pounds for dundonald - million pounds for dundonald international ice bowl and £4 million — international ice bowl and £4 million for the strand, you cannot ask me _ million for the strand, you cannot ask me about specific projects and then not— ask me about specific projects and then not expect a reaction... applause. rob lee, when it comes to the ulster unionist party spec stance, what is the argument that you put forward? what is he proposition? should you not be selling the union? is not a sales pitch to be done for people who vote for naomi long? it seems as an argument between unionists and the alliance party? the economic argument is something that is prevalent in some minds at the moment but if you take any nation at a pinch point in time, colum is right to point out the money in the republic but that would not have been through over the past 100 years but most people here without basic constitutional desires for their future on the economy, i don't think i could buy colum are chris in terms of their aspirations to remain part of their aspirations to remain part of their aspirations to remain part of the uk... it will be about the health service and the economy and the standard of living. it health service and the economy and the standard of living.— the standard of living. it should be and the uk — the standard of living. it should be and the uk economy _ the standard of living. it should be and the uk economy has _ the standard of living. it should be and the uk economy has been - the standard of living. it should be and the uk economy has been one the standard of living. it should be i and the uk economy has been one of the largest— and the uk economy has been one of the largest economies _ and the uk economy has been one of the largest economies for _ and the uk economy has been one of the largest economies for years - and the uk economy has been one of the largest economies for years but i the largest economies for years but it is the _ the largest economies for years but it is the political— the largest economies for years but it is the political mismanagement l it is the political mismanagement that is— it is the political mismanagement that is a _ it is the political mismanagement that is a failure _ it is the political mismanagement that is a failure to _ it is the political mismanagement that is a failure to influence - it is the political mismanagement that is a failure to influence in- that is a failure to influence in westndnster— that is a failure to influence in westminster and _ that is a failure to influence in westminster and make - that is a failure to influence in westminster and make the i that is a failure to influence in. westminster and make the case that is a failure to influence in- westminster and make the case for northern— westminster and make the case for northern ireland _ westminster and make the case for northern ireland and _ westminster and make the case for northern ireland and we _ westminster and make the case for northern ireland and we do - westminster and make the case for northern ireland and we do for- westminster and make the case for| northern ireland and we do for once have an _ northern ireland and we do for once have an executive _ northern ireland and we do for once have an executive facing _ northern ireland and we do for once have an executive facing in - northern ireland and we do for once have an executive facing in the i have an executive facing in the right— have an executive facing in the right direction— have an executive facing in the right direction and _ have an executive facing in the right direction and we - have an executive facing in the right direction and we have i have an executive facing in the i right direction and we have actually the opposition— right direction and we have actually the opposition agreeing _ right direction and we have actually the opposition agreeing with - right direction and we have actuallyj the opposition agreeing with regard to the _ the opposition agreeing with regard to the financing _ the opposition agreeing with regard to the financing of _ the opposition agreeing with regard to the financing of northern - the opposition agreeing with regard to the financing of northern ireland j to the financing of northern ireland and treing _ to the financing of northern ireland and being funded _ to the financing of northern ireland and being funded under— to the financing of northern ireland and being funded under that - to the financing of northern ireland and being funded under that on i to the financing of northern ireland and being funded under that on the argument _ and being funded under that on the argument has — and being funded under that on the argument has been _ and being funded under that on the argument has been won _ and being funded under that on the argument has been won but- and being funded under that on the argument has been won but we i and being funded under that on the i argument has been won but we need to make northern — argument has been won but we need to make northern ireland _ argument has been won but we need to make northern ireland work— argument has been won but we need to make northern ireland work to - argument has been won but we need to make northern ireland work to take i make northern ireland work to take that into _ make northern ireland work to take that into a — make northern ireland work to take that into a more _ make northern ireland work to take that into a more prosperous - make northern ireland work to take that into a more prosperous future. j that into a more prosperous future. a couple _ that into a more prosperous future. a couple of— that into a more prosperous future. a couple of points _ that into a more prosperous future. a couple of points to _ that into a more prosperous future. a couple of points to you, - that into a more prosperous future. | a couple of points to you, regarding the combine support for parties to support an united ireland, in 1998 that was 39.6%, in 2022 it was 40.9%, gavin robinson points out that the dial has not shifted far but if you look at parties supporting the union, a 1998 that was 50 points 7% and in 2022 it was 40% so you have lost 8% and most have gone in the direction of naomi long's party. i have gone in the direction of naomi long's party-— long's party. i started in politics ten ears long's party. i started in politics ten years for— long's party. i started in politics ten years for a _ long's party. i started in politics ten years for a reason, - long's party. i started in politics ten years for a reason, the i ten years for a reason, the leadership, _ ten years for a reason, the leadership, particularly- ten years for a reason, the i leadership, particularly from the biggest — leadership, particularly from the biggest party, _ leadership, particularly from the biggest party. has _ leadership, particularly from the biggest party, has failed - leadership, particularly from the biggest party, has failed to - leadership, particularly from the i biggest party, has failed to grasp the needs— biggest party, has failed to grasp the needs of— biggest party, has failed to grasp the needs of the _ biggest party, has failed to grasp the needs of the people - biggest party, has failed to grasp the needs of the people of- biggest party, has failed to grasp i the needs of the people of northern iretand _ the needs of the people of northern iretand and — the needs of the people of northern ireland and given _ the needs of the people of northern ireland and given the _ the needs of the people of northern ireland and given the vision - ireland and given the vision for northem— ireland and given the vision for northern ireland _ ireland and given the vision for northern ireland that - ireland and given the vision for northern ireland that works . ireland and given the vision fori northern ireland that works for everyone _ northern ireland that works for everyone that _ northern ireland that works for everyone. that is— northern ireland that works for everyone. that is central- northern ireland that works for everyone. that is central to - everyone. that is central to everything _ everyone. that is central to everything that _ everyone. that is central to everything that the - everyone. that is central to everything that the ulster. everyone. that is central to - everything that the ulster unionist party d0~ — everything that the ulster unionist party tie it — everything that the ulster unionist party tie it is— everything that the ulster unionist party do. it is up— everything that the ulster unionist party do. it is up for— everything that the ulster unionist party do. it is up for grabs- everything that the ulster unionist party do. it is up for grabs and - party do. it is up for grabs and backing — party do. it is up for grabs and backing northern— party do. it is up for grabs and backing northern ireland - party do. it is up for grabs and backing northern ireland work| party do. it is up for grabs and l backing northern ireland work is centrai— backing northern ireland work is central to— backing northern ireland work is central to our— backing northern ireland work is central to our dna. _ backing northern ireland work is central to our dna. the - backing northern ireland work is central to our dna.— central to our dna. the last ten ears the central to our dna. the last ten years the uup _ central to our dna. the last ten years the uup vote _ central to our dna. the last ten years the uup vote has - central to our dna. the last ten years the uup vote has not - central to our dna. the last ten - years the uup vote has not changed significantly? there are areas of success and what i do there are areas of success and what i do genuinely— there are areas of success and what i do genuinely believe _ there are areas of success and what i do genuinely believe is _ there are areas of success and what i do genuinely believe is that- there are areas of success and what i do genuinely believe is that young | i do genuinely believe is that young people _ i do genuinely believe is that young people i_ i do genuinely believe is that young people i different _ i do genuinely believe is that young people i different conversations - people i different conversations that we — people i different conversations that we have _ people i different conversations that we have had. _ people i different conversations that we have had.— people i different conversations that we have had. but the overall unionist vote _ that we have had. but the overall unionist vote is _ that we have had. but the overall unionist vote is going _ that we have had. but the overall unionist vote is going down, - that we have had. but the overall unionist vote is going down, you | unionist vote is going down, you need to take ownership of that. this is about need to take ownership of that. try 3 is about bring people together and showing everybody if we can make this case that we are better off in the european union, we can work to have a better economy, better public services. that will be the test that people who want to see change will need to meet. we are doing that hard work... in need to meet. we are doing that hard work... . . . need to meet. we are doing that hard work... . ,, i. need to meet. we are doing that hard work... . ,, ., �* need to meet. we are doing that hard work... . ,, .,�* . work... in fairness you don't have the majority _ work... in fairness you don't have the majority support _ work... in fairness you don't have the majority support for _ work... in fairness you don't have the majority support for it. - work... in fairness you don't have the majority support for it. i - work... in fairness you don't have the majority support for it. i will. the ma'ority support for it. i will be the majority support for it. i will be askin: the majority support for it. i will be asking for — the majority support for it. i will be asking for a border _ the majority support for it. ii-n' ll be asking for a border poll the majority support for it. in ll be asking for a border poll if we did. ., , be asking for a border poll if we did. , , , be asking for a border poll if we did. , , did. nobody said this is about demographics. _ did. nobody said this is about demographics. if you - did. nobody said this is about demographics. if you look - did. nobody said this is about demographics. if you look at l did. nobody said this is about i demographics. if you look at the tens of thousands _ demographics. if you look at the tens of thousands of _ demographics. if you look at the tens of thousands of people - demographics. if you look at the i tens of thousands of people who demographics. if you look at the - tens of thousands of people who went to the island futures conferences in belfast and dublin and indeed in westminster as well, they come from a broad cross—section of society from church groups, voluntary and community groups and all political persuasions. i think the comments are very significant comments from the former taoiseach leo varadkar last week in belfast are hugely telling when he said that it is time now for the irish government to ensure that reunification is a political objective of the irish government are notjust an aspiration. government are not 'ust an aspiratiomfi government are not 'ust an asiration. ~ , ., . aspiration. we will see how that toes. aspiration. we will see how that goes- i'm _ aspiration. we will see how that goes- i'mjust— aspiration. we will see how that goes. i'm just going _ aspiration. we will see how that goes. i'm just going to - aspiration. we will see how that goes. i'm just going to take - aspiration. we will see how that i goes. i'm just going to take some more questions or more points from the audience. i more questions or more points from the audience-— the audience. i would like to make two cuick the audience. i would like to make two quick points. _ the audience. i would like to make two quick points. those _ the audience. i would like to make two quick points. those who - two quick points. those who advocatem _ two quick points. those who advocate... at _ two quick points. those who advocate... at those - two quick points. those who i advocate... at those lamenting two quick points. those who - advocate... at those lamenting the most what — advocate... at those lamenting the most what they _ advocate... at those lamenting the most what they -- _ advocate... at those lamenting the most what they —— and _ advocate... at those lamenting the most what they —— and how - advocate... at those lamenting the most what they —— and how little . advocate... at those lamenting the most what they —— and how little i i most what they —— and how little i -et most what they —— and how little i get from _ most what they —— and how little i get from westminster. _ most what they —— and how little i get from westminster. the - most what they —— and how little i get from westminster. the otheri get from westminster. the other point _ get from westminster. the other point is _ get from westminster. the other point is they— get from westminster. the other point is they talk— get from westminster. the other point is they talk about _ point is they talk about abstentionism - point is they talk about abstentionism in. - point is they talk about abstentionism in. i- point is they talk about . abstentionism in. iwould point is they talk about - abstentionism in. i would like greater— abstentionism in. i would like greater representation - abstentionism in. i would like greater representation from i abstentionism in. i would like - greater representation from dublin but the _ greater representation from dublin but the sdlp— greater representation from dublin but the sdlp can _ greater representation from dublin but the sdlp can often _ greater representation from dublin but the sdlp can often be - greater representation from dublin but the sdlp can often be that - but the sdlp can often be that because — but the sdlp can often be that because not— but the sdlp can often be that because not only _ but the sdlp can often be that because not only they- but the sdlp can often be that - because not only they abstained... 0k, because not only they abstained... 0k. next— because not only they abstained... 0k. next up. — because not only they abstained... 0k. next ”p in— because not only they abstained... 0k, next up. in the _ because not only they abstained... 0k, next up. in the middle - because not only they abstained... 0k, next up. in the middle here. l because not only they abstained... 0k, next up. in the middle here. [| 0k, next up. in the middle here. i just want to say that i am neither union— just want to say that i am neither union is— just want to say that i am neither union is not— just want to say that i am neither union is not nationalist. i'm very proud _ union is not nationalist. i'm very proud to— union is not nationalist. i'm very proud to live _ union is not nationalist. i'm very proud to live in northern ireland i realty— proud to live in northern ireland i really would love to see our politicians starting to see the fact that we _ politicians starting to see the fact that we can work north—south and east-west — that we can work north—south and east—west as a unique kind of strength— east—west as a unique kind of strength that we have, rather than trying _ strength that we have, rather than trying to— strength that we have, rather than trying to tear us apart all the time applause _ . i wouldjust like to make applause — . i would just like to make the . i would 'ust like to make the oint . i would just like to make the point that _ . i would just like to make the point that all— . i would just like to make the point that all the _ . i would just like to make the point that all the parties - . i would just like to make the point that all the parties have | point that all the parties have talked — point that all the parties have talked about— point that all the parties have talked about the _ point that all the parties have talked about the inequality i point that all the parties have talked about the inequality ofi talked about the inequality of funding — talked about the inequality of funding for— talked about the inequality of funding for northern - talked about the inequality of funding for northern ireland i talked about the inequality of i funding for northern ireland being only to _ funding for northern ireland being only to meeting _ funding for northern ireland being only to meeting people _ funding for northern ireland being only to meeting people but - funding for northern ireland being only to meeting people but why. funding for northern ireland being i only to meeting people but why has nobody _ only to meeting people but why has nobody voiced — only to meeting people but why has nobody voiced for— only to meeting people but why has nobody voiced for a _ only to meeting people but why has nobody voiced for a more federal. nobody voiced for a more federal systenr, — nobody voiced for a more federal system, similar— nobody voiced for a more federal system, similarto_ nobody voiced for a more federal system, similar to the _ nobody voiced for a more federal system, similar to the american| system, similar to the american senate — system, similar to the american senate because _ system, similar to the american senate because obviously... i senate because obviously... 0bviousty _ senate because obviously... 0bviousty in _ senate because obviously... obviously in the _ senate because obviously... obviously in the 2 _ senate because obviously... obviously in the 2 million i senate because obviously... i obviously in the 2 million people senate because obviously... - obviously in the 2 million people in northern— obviously in the 2 million people in northern ireland, _ obviously in the 2 million people in northern ireland, 60 _ obviously in the 2 million people in northern ireland, 60 million - obviously in the 2 million people in northern ireland, 60 million in the| northern ireland, 60 million in the uk, we _ northern ireland, 60 million in the uk, we need — northern ireland, 60 million in the uk, we need a _ northern ireland, 60 million in the uk, we need a system _ northern ireland, 60 million in the uk, we need a system to- northern ireland, 60 million in the uk, we need a system to balance i northern ireland, 60 million in the i uk, we need a system to balance out smatter— uk, we need a system to balance out smatter nations — uk, we need a system to balance out smaller nations like us. _ uk, we need a system to balance out smaller nations like us. blott- smaller nations like us. not something _ smaller nations like us. not something i— smaller nations like us. not something i think _ smaller nations like us. itch something i think we'll smaller nations like us.- something i think we'll sort out smaller nations like us— something i think we'll sort out in this election but thank you very much. very quickly. mi this election but thank you very much. very quickly.— this election but thank you very much. very quickly. all the bad to talk about funding _ much. very quickly. all the bad to talk about funding and _ much. very quickly. all the bad to talk about funding and the - much. very quickly. all the bad to talk about funding and the need i much. very quickly. all the bad to| talk about funding and the need to -et talk about funding and the need to get more — talk about funding and the need to get more funding but not so long ago nrany_ get more funding but not so long ago many here _ get more funding but not so long ago many here tonight were calling for rigorous _ many here tonight were calling for rigorous implementation of the northern— rigorous implementation of the northern ireland protocol which wreaked — northern ireland protocol which wreaked havoc on our economy. there was only— wreaked havoc on our economy. there was only one _ wreaked havoc on our economy. there was only one voice in westminster that was— was only one voice in westminster that was willing to sort that out and bring — that was willing to sort that out and bring summing back to northern iretand _ and bring summing back to northern ireland. . .. and bring summing back to northern ireland. . ,, i. ., . ireland. thank you for the point. we are auoin ireland. thank you for the point. we are going to — ireland. thank you for the point. we are going to take — ireland. thank you for the point. we are going to take our _ ireland. thank you for the point. we are going to take our next _ ireland. thank you for the point. we are going to take our next question | are going to take our next question and it is from danny mulligan in armagh. and it is from danny mulligan in armauh. . . and it is from danny mulligan in armauh. ., . .. and it is from danny mulligan in armauh. , , armagh. has taken sides in the conflict in _ armagh. has taken sides in the conflict in the _ armagh. has taken sides in the conflict in the middle _ armagh. has taken sides in the conflict in the middle east i armagh. has taken sides in the i conflict in the middle east become another— conflict in the middle east become another form _ conflict in the middle east become another form of— conflict in the middle east become another form of divisive _ conflict in the middle east become another form of divisive identity i another form of divisive identity politics— another form of divisive identity politics or— another form of divisive identity politics or do _ another form of divisive identity politics or do you _ another form of divisive identity politics or do you feel _ another form of divisive identity politics or do you feel it - another form of divisive identity politics or do you feel it aligns l politics or do you feel it aligns with— politics or do you feel it aligns with national— politics or do you feel it aligns with national interests? - politics or do you feel it aligns with national interests? colum eastwood. _ with national interests? colum eastwood. it — with national interests? colum eastwood, it is _ with national interests? colum eastwood, it is properly i with national interests? colum eastwood, it is properly easieri with national interests? colum i eastwood, it is properly easier for you on this one to do the kind of stepping aside and not go into the white house and making a protest about that. but if you are in a position of first deputy first minister it would have been trickier. i minister it would have been trickier. u. minister it would have been trickier. u, , ., . , trickier. i can tell you i have been workin: trickier. i can tell you i have been working with _ trickier. i can tell you i have been working with the _ trickier. i can tell you i have been working with the administration l trickier. i can tell you i have been i working with the administration and different american administrations for many years and it was not one bit easy. but i was asked to do it by members of a campaign who are working on palestinian solidarity. but i have also been to gaza. i was there 12 years ago when i saw the devastation wrought upon ordinary people by the israeli government. i am looking at a genocide unfolding in front of my very eyes and people feel helpless and hopeless about it. if i am not going to go and drink a pint of guinness and eat nipples withjoe biden when he is funding and arming the israeli government to do that. that's my position. applause there will be an opportunity in the next parliament to vote for palestinian statehood. i next parliament to vote for palestinian statehood. i will be there. i want _ palestinian statehood. i will be there. i want to _ palestinian statehood. i will be there. i want to stop _ palestinian statehood. i will be there. i want to stop the i palestinian statehood. i will be| there. i want to stop the british government sending arms and components to the idf to drop bombs on children. i components to the idf to drop bombs on children. . ., components to the idf to drop bombs on children. , ., . , on children. i been to palestine. one of my _ on children. i been to palestine. one of my last _ on children. i been to palestine. one of my last delegations i on children. i been to palestine. one of my last delegations in i one of my last delegations in westminster actually just one of my last delegations in westminster actuallyjust before the election— westminster actuallyjust before the election was called was a delegation of palestinian members that i hosted in westminster. in the message is very. _ in westminster. in the message is very. very— in westminster. in the message is very, very clear. never be still, never— very, very clear. never be still, never be — very, very clear. never be still, never be silent. be our voice in places— never be silent. be our voice in places where we don't have access. and sinn— places where we don't have access. and sinn fein is opposed to this and it is very— and sinn fein is opposed to this and it is very clear. we are the only party— it is very clear. we are the only party in — it is very clear. we are the only party in the north with meps in brussels — party in the north with meps in brussels. we have unique access to key players — brussels. we have unique access to key players on capitol hill in america _ key players on capitol hill in america. if we can use that in the interest— america. if we can use that in the interest of— america. if we can use that in the interest of the palestinian and policy— interest of the palestinian and policy and in freedom we will continue _ policy and in freedom we will continue to do that.- policy and in freedom we will continue to do that. yes, but you must accept. _ continue to do that. yes, but you must accept, chris _ continue to do that. yes, but you must accept, chris hazzard, i continue to do that. yes, but you must accept, chris hazzard, first| continue to do that. yes, but you i must accept, chris hazzard, first of all would go next year ifjoe biden is in the white house? would you go next year if what is happening is still happening? the next year if what is happening is still happening? next year if what is happening is still ha enin: ? u, . still happening? the commitment that sinn fein have — still happening? the commitment that sinn fein have made _ still happening? the commitment that sinn fein have made to _ still happening? the commitment that sinn fein have made to the _ still happening? the commitment that sinn fein have made to the people i still happening? the commitment that sinn fein have made to the people ofl sinn fein have made to the people of palestine, _ sinn fein have made to the people of palestine, we will never be still, never— palestine, we will never be still, never be — palestine, we will never be still, never be silent, we will be their voice _ never be silent, we will be their voice in — never be silent, we will be their voice in those places... first never be silent, we will be their voice in those places. . .- voice in those places... first of all, it is voice in those places... first of all. it is not — voice in those places... first of all, it is not an _ voice in those places... first of all, it is not an answer - voice in those places... first of all, it is not an answer to i voice in those places... first of all, it is not an answer to the i all, it is not an answer to the question so would you go next year to the white house? itruiiiiii question so would you go next year to the white house?— to the white house? will continue to to the white house? will continue to go wherever — to the white house? will continue to go wherever we _ to the white house? will continue to go wherever we need _ to the white house? will continue to go wherever we need to _ to the white house? will continue to go wherever we need to go _ to the white house? will continue to go wherever we need to go to - to the white house? will continue to go wherever we need to go to be i to the white house? will continue to go wherever we need to go to be the i go wherever we need to go to be the voice of— go wherever we need to go to be the voice of the — go wherever we need to go to be the voice of the palestinian people. many— voice of the palestinian people. many of— voice of the palestinian people. many of your supporters were aghast that you didn't call for the expulsion of the israeli ambassador. there was a viewpoint put forward by the youth wing that then wasn't taken on board by the senior sinn fein party. the kind of mixed messages around israel and palestine as you have got closer to power in the south has really raise questions and eyebrows among some of your supporters say let's get real here, no one is ever going to question sinn fein's solidarity with the palestinian people. we have stood with the palestinian people for many, many decades. i have been to palestine, sinn fein leaders have been to palestine and we will continue to be their voice in those places where their voices need to be heard the most. alliance, what is your point on the white house? would your point on the white house? would you have gone to those celebrations? what is your stance on the middle east and the crisis that is unfolding their was yellow i didn't go to the white house this year but i'm not going to pretend either as column suggests that it is in work because it is work. we try to get things done for northern ireland. i had other priorities and sol things done for northern ireland. i had other priorities and so i didn't go this year but i'm not going to dismiss the value of it either. what i would say is there is a danger and i would say is there is a danger and i want to return to the question we were asked is there is a danger of it becoming another form of identity politics and you just need to take a glance at lamp post that lamp posts are in northern ireland see that as execin are in northern ireland see that as exec in what could happen. and the shame in all of that. i was asked to really probing question by a young woman in a school and she said to me, is it in some way letting my side down that i find what israel are doing to the people in gaza appalling? because everyone around me seems to think that israel are fine. because we have turned to enter proxy, as we do with office every issue with the northern ireland conflict and we should stop doing that. it is entirely possible say that what hamas did on seventh october was a terrorist atrocity and breached international law and that israel has a right to defend itself. and at the same time to say that what israel has waged on gaza by way of collective punishment and the atrocities and the genocidal acts that they have commissioned in that space are completely contrary to international law. we should be standing up for innocent civilians who are losing their lives, for the hostages who were taken and have not been returned. those are the people whose voice we should be making sure is heard. how we do that as individual parties is a matterfor individual parties is a matterfor individual party leaderships. but i want to say... you have made your point. we are out of time here. i want to see international law upheld and that matters.— and that matters. gavin robinson, has taken sides _ and that matters. gavin robinson, has taken sides in _ and that matters. gavin robinson, has taken sides in the _ and that matters. gavin robinson, has taken sides in the conflict i has taken sides in the conflict become another form of identity politics. have you start taken aside on this? i politics. have you start taken aside on this? .. . politics. have you start taken aside on this? ,, , . on this? i think it is an interesting _ on this? i think it is an interesting question i on this? i think it is an i interesting question because on this? i think it is an - interesting question because i on this? i think it is an _ interesting question because i don't think it _ interesting question because i don't think it is _ interesting question because i don't think it is taking sides to condemn terrorism — think it is taking sides to condemn terrorism i— think it is taking sides to condemn terrorism. i don't think it is taken terrorism. idon't think it is taken sides— terrorism. i don't think it is taken sides to _ terrorism. i don't think it is taken sides to recognise that what happened on the 7th of october was an outrage — happened on the 7th of october was an outrage and an atrocity. yes, but other peeple — an outrage and an atrocity. yes, but other people would _ an outrage and an atrocity. yes, but other people would say _ an outrage and an atrocity. yes, but other people would say that - an outrage and an atrocity. yes, but other people would say that they . an outrage and an atrocity. yes, but| other people would say that they way that it other people would say that they way thatitis other people would say that they way that it is state—sponsored terrorism. that it is state-sponsored terrorism.— that it is state-sponsored terrorism. ., . , terrorism. you may say that but that's not _ terrorism. you may say that but that's not what _ terrorism. you may say that but that's not what i'm _ terrorism. you may say that but that's not what i'm saying. - terrorism. you may say that but that's not what i'm saying. you | terrorism. you may say that but i that's not what i'm saying. you are saying _ that's not what i'm saying. you are saying that — that's not what i'm saying. you are saying that now and you have introduced into the debate but i can see very— introduced into the debate but i can see very clearly that what is going on at _ see very clearly that what is going on at the — see very clearly that what is going on at the moment is a human tragedy. i can on at the moment is a human tragedy. i can see _ on at the moment is a human tragedy. icah see very— on at the moment is a human tragedy. i can see very clearly that there should — i can see very clearly that there should be — i can see very clearly that there should be a ceasefire and the hostages should be returned to their families _ hostages should be returned to their families. on the 7th of october when the actions _ families. on the 7th of october when the actions of hamas were condemned. is it the actions of hamas were condemned. is it wrong _ the actions of hamas were condemned. is it wrong to _ the actions of hamas were condemned. is it wrong to say that is a human tragedy. is it a proxy war? egypt, in their role _ tragedy. is it a proxy war? egypt, in their role in _ tragedy. is it a proxy war? egypt, in their role in closing _ tragedy. is it a proxy war? egypt, in their role in closing the - tragedy. is it a proxy war? egypt, in their role in closing the rafah l in their role in closing the rafah crossing, — in their role in closing the rafah crossing, which they could easily retease — crossing, which they could easily release. more important than that, more _ release. more important than that, more importantly than that i think it is wrong — more importantly than that i think it is wrong that whenever you see political _ it is wrong that whenever you see political leaders in northern iretand _ political leaders in northern ireland or westminster or somewhere else standing up and talking about from the _ else standing up and talking about from the river to the sea, they never — from the river to the sea, they never think— from the river to the sea, they never think about the jewish community that we have... we never think about the jewish community that we have... we need to be very careful — community that we have... we need to be very careful about... _ community that we have... we need to be very careful about... and the - be very careful about... and the threats and _ be very careful about... and the threats and intimidation - be very careful about... and the threats and intimidation that. be very careful about... and the l threats and intimidation that they are facing — threats and intimidation that they are facing notjust in northern iretand — are facing notjust in northern ireland but throughout the world. i am going _ ireland but throughout the world. i am going to a synagogue tomorrow and so whilst _ am going to a synagogue tomorrow and so whilst i _ am going to a synagogue tomorrow and so whilst i think there should be a release _ so whilst i think there should be a release of— so whilst i think there should be a release of hostages and a ceasefire more _ release of hostages and a ceasefire more generally, i do recognise it as a human— more generally, i do recognise it as a human tragedy.— more generally, i do recognise it as a human tragedy. robbie butler, back to dann 's a human tragedy. robbie butler, back to danny's question. _ a human tragedy. robbie butler, back to danny's question. has _ a human tragedy. robbie butler, back to danny's question. has taken - a human tragedy. robbie butler, back to danny's question. has taken sidesl to danny's question. has taken sides in the conflict, a you taken aside in the conflict, a you taken aside in this conflict?— in this conflict? absently not. there has _ in this conflict? absently not. there has been _ in this conflict? absently not. l there has been unprecedented humanitarian suffering mattered out from the 7th of october and even before that because it is a conflict that beats he believed to be experts in it but we shouldn't in this country because many people don't understand the conflict that existed in this country. it is still unfortunately hasn't been fully recognised with people not owning up to their own actions in some cases. do you see it as a proxy war? i do you see it as a proxy war? i think it is a humanitarian disaster. the images we see playing out on our screens is beyond anybody�*s excuse. it doesn't matter if it is an israeli child or palestinian child who loses their life and there have been hundreds if not thousands of them, which is terrible. but i want to point to a common that was made that after the october seven attack he did say that israel should not do, should not attack in the manner that some people thought they would because if we're going to learn a lesson from where we have been in northern ireland, it has to be dialogue, it has to be dialogue and there has to be a solution. and unfortunately it has been playing out particular on social media where people look like they're taking sides... . ., people look like they're taking sides... . . ., sides... that has to be an end to the occupation _ sides... that has to be an end to the occupation and _ sides... that has to be an end to the occupation and apartheid - sides... that has to be an end to| the occupation and apartheid and ethnic— the occupation and apartheid and ethnic cleansing. applause — . there has to be a two state solution- _ . there has to be a two state solution. of— . there has to be a two state solution. of course - . there has to be a two state solution. of course has - . there has to be a two state solution. of course has to i . there has to be a two statei solution. of course has to be . there has to be a two state l solution. of course has to be a . there has to be a two state - solution. of course has to be a two state solution... _ solution. of course has to be a two state solution... i— solution. of course has to be a two state solution... ijust _ solution. of course has to be a two state solution... i just want - state solution... i 'ust want to brina a state solution... i 'ust want to bring a room h state solution... i 'ust want to bring a room final_ state solution... i just want to bring a room final word - state solution... i just want to bring a room final word on - state solution... i just want to l bring a room final word on this. people are squabbling about this, there are children dying right now, children starving in gaza right now. that place was an open prison when i was there 12 years ago. can you imagine what it is like right now? israeli government ministers have said openly that they want to wipe those people of that piece of land. that is nothing else but a genocide and the world needs to stop it. and powers in america, powers in london and powers in the european union need to step in and stop arming israel right now. applause . we are pretty much out of time but thank you very much. that definitely went by very quickly. thank you. it is all we have time for. you will find a full list of candidates on the bbc news ni website. the tuv — that's the traditional unionist voice — people before profit and the green party will give their reaction on a specially extended bbc newsline at 10.30pm. and there'll be more reaction on good morning ulster, tomorrow. then it's over to you — the voters. this time next week, the polls will be about to close. thanks to our guests, our studio audience, and of course, to you at home for watching. goodnight. tonight at ten — a bbc investigation tracks down the people smuggler who was behind a channel crossing that left a seven—year—old dead. we know 100% that you are a smuggler, that you are responsible for the death of this seven—year—old. also on the programme... a reform uk canvasser has been filmed by channel [i saying migrants crossing the channel should be used as "target practice", and used racist language about the prime minister. joe biden and donald trump arrive in atlanta, georgia — ahead of theirfirst us presidential televised debate tonight. the stakes are very high, because this race is so tight. this could be the most significant moment of the campaign so farand the most significant moment of the campaign so far and set the tone for months to come. a week from now we'll have the general election exit poll — the first indication of how the uk has voted. tonight, we'll look at what the polls so far suggest and why many are still being cautious about believing them. and he's given it. and disappointment for england, thrashed by india in the t20 world cup semifinal. and stay with us here on bbc news for continuing coverage and analysis from our team of correspondents in the uk and around the world. in april, five people, including a seven—year—old girl called sara, died in the sea off northern france.

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