jeanine pirro, harold ford jr. alon smith and will cain. it's 5:00 in new york city. and this is the five ron desantis and gavin newsom throwing down in th e epic red versus blue state debate on "hannity". >> the two hige h profileh governors talking trash for months and finally getting the chanceinally to hammer each other's record face to face. >> they tx much, they regulate too much. they have a political agenda. the for aa good climat business. >> they've lost a lot of companies. california dominates sizable l 21 state populations combined,o. the fifth largest economy in the world. he had the kids locked out omy in td the the teachershers union that is having a generational impact.k the last guy you want to talk to on the immigration line, ts migrants promising them jobs and housing, sending them an island, martha's vineyard. >> well, this is an app where they plos whert the that are ff on the streets of san francisco . the two also taking some vicious personal shots at each other. >> i can handle it. i'm used to bullying. t eachyou're nothing but a bully you're understand that til tell a blizzard of lies to beou able to try to mask the failures. >> you're trolling folks and trying to find migrantg tost to play political games, try to get some news and tension so you can out trump, trump and you by the way, how's that going for you, ron? you're down 41 points in your own home state. yourhe just throwing stuff outth to see what sticks against the wall. this is a slick, slippery. politician. >> i will take >> joe biden at 100 versus ron desantis any day of week at any age. >> desantis and newsom trading jabs over their future political ambitions. out are you going to drop out l and least give nikki haley a shot to take down donald trump in this nominationnikki ? >> she laid you out.t it you just won't admit it. you will not admit it. well, i know, guys, gentlemen, that you're running. i don't know how many times i can say just making stuff up about a shadow campaign. what biden and harris and newsom wan y this, ng tt do is takee cali the california model and do that nationallndy. one thing in closing that we i have in commonn is, neitherr of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024. judge jeanine pirro, you've been chomping at the bit all day wanting to this off off your chest. >> what's going on? tell you something. he is a mean spiriterest.d, pety guy. >> and i know, i know. obviously greasy gavin. okayy greasy. >> that's my new name for him. you know, the thing that the diing thg i found most offensive was one that really didn't have a lot to dd o with. it's when he interrupted ron, when he was talkinn g about joeh biden and the teachers union and kamala harrians, and he interrupted, i don't know if we have that sound, guys. wherhat sounuys,e he says, by t, it's not kamala harris. shame on youno it's kamala.t's - it's kamala. it's madam vice president to won you. >> stop insulting that woman. i mean, talk. about petty. but then the thing is that every time they brought up the bureau of labor statistics,e the census, the cdc, he madehe d sean hannity made gavin newsom the liar that he is. i mean, the taxes in california, the people leaving california and then telling people that you've createeopld jobs because you're allowing them to return to the jobs you locked them out of unconstitutionally during the lockdown is a straight out lie. >> so the bottom line is, here's a guy who destroyed the city of san francisco became the governor of the state of californisan fra and nw he's destroyed the state of california wants to be president of the unitef califotk people saw him for a petty, slimy guy. >> did newsom win on style or wn substance or neither? >> well, good to see. well, thank you.t th i'd say a couple of things. i thought both of them did well last night. i thought of the facts as it relates to mr. desantis, a state he was able to get some of those things out around covid in taxes those. i thought that governor newsom was able to get a lot of thing s out about his state. i do think some of the numbers around people that havumberse me there and jobs being created, i don't think we get the full picture. i thought bothld i thought th od their hardest to share that vision. >> we didn't get a real visiont of or should say we didn't understand how that vision would translate to them being presiden uhow itt. g sure i thought shawn did a great job of making sure this was t about these states giving giving both of these governors an opportunity whose states had beenunity wh in the spotlight, y so, during covid, after covid. but how they've respondeduringd how they what kind of resiliency their economy is showing in their people, re. howing so i thought that was thought that was positive. now, to your question about the ste, thought that governor newsom, who's a good looking guy, presents well and presented a strong way, found his probably found the better of governor desantis in some of those exchangesantist because he for whatever reason, seemed to be, i thought, a little more prepared where i thought governor desantis was more prepared. >> he countered with substance at timesgovernor desanti and ma. and i thought that in many ways allowed the counter in the balance to be struck. but i thought the two most telling and revealing and memorable lines for me, wil when we showed one of them, we said neither of us will ben 2024 the nominee in 2024. and i think sandra and i might have reacted to that a bit. tod ink thati republicans have, i think, realized on a national level this issue of women'sue o health and reproductive rights callabortionf reprodu, we uniquy and succinctly call it this issue is not going away. and you've got i think that if the national party is and republican side is unable to get a better answer than what governor desantis gave last night, i think it's going to be hard. >> least he gave an answer .. well, so the only electoral list you're right and i'm not going to quarrel with you on thaold: it, but i do know tha the only thing i can point to is what the voters are saying. and just three weeks ago in kentucky, in ohioeven, two republican states voters said that abortion was a big issue for them. so overallissuer them can both . they're both patriotic, they're both passionate, and neitheboth bplusesr will be the nominee. >> you know, jesse, i'm concerned because i think gavin newsom is a very effectiv e prolific, easy, sociopathic liar, and i thinklln he does an excellent job of lying. i think desantis won the debateh because he had reality and facts on his side. e s onbut newsom would haveu you believe last night that theb california economy is booming, that people are moving from floridoo.ina to, california, tht was the most open state during covid. , hehe would have you believe a completely false reality that i do think desantis wass ws capable of pushing back on. >> but newsom doesble of p it wn ease, and i'm not concerned with people that already like desantis. ed witi'm not concerned with trc voters. i'm not even concerned with newsom voters ooncerned wi. >> i'm concerned with casual, casual news watchers, casual voters that tune in. and all they see is that slicker authority. i don't know if it's true or not. he's diced some stat. it's impossibl ae to parse. he was full of numbers. nut judge, he was full of moralizing as well. how would you dare demea ann lgt lgbt community as you ban books? there's the li they are random o 3000 books and then moralize about demeaninokg and themigh casual viewer might just walk away from that slick presentation going, hmm, okay, sounds like he knows what he's talking about. >> yeah, that'bouts why? it's a debate, though. and desantis showed up with facts and that was pretty easywh. you can make the case that he won before he even got on the stage. when you present facts , like,n gas prices, almost five bucks. and in california,fornia, theyl over $3. in florida, you look at the economy in florida, much the situation, you've got people paying $5,400 in per capita taxes, over 10,000 in california. yeah, you've got the deficit soaring in california,cit soar 1 billion. florida is running a surplus aer of over 17 billion. you've got this population migration, which was reallthis a someone like desantis to fall back on. i think it came upck. i think we all heard it multiple times come up454,00 of 54,000 people left florida between 2021 and 2022, 700 sorry, 750,000 left california, 450,000 went to florida. perhaps the the line of the togh t was the story that hook, line and sinker. , and sip that he wasfled talking to a gentleman who fled california for florida. ita to be newsom's fathern news in law. the timing on that was pretty spectaculaom's fathee tir. rs w who won the night? the voters will certainly decide. the americany decide public will decide. i think there were some really interesting substantive moment ss and we all win for this conversation happening in the first place for this debatappeni even happening. kudos to sean hannity. great job. i thinngk there were some really substantive debates that happened up there. and i think people learn somethinsubstas ankg about each, each governor. >> yeah, kudos to sean and kudo ps to harold ford jr who said gavin newsom was handsomeharold f and.and >> i respect that. your bravery from coming out comi you veryat, thank much. >> are you trying to say something? i'm not i'm not doing. >> you said i love you. i love you. more coming up, dirt ly got busted censoring conservatives and they just admitted ready they're ready to do it again. and you see you see every part . you see and you won. >> the winter play was really coming together until disasterue struck. perf costumes were shipped with fedex, which means mr. harvey could picture the perfect night. we're delivering more happy for the holidays. i see. had ice works fast heat makes it less feel the power of contrast spirit so you can rise from pain ice. >> yeah. did you ever stress about us having three kids now? 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you have no idea. you know, hard drives can manipulate it. are you suggesting the new york post participateey ared a conspc to construct the contents of the hunter biden laptopti? is no, sir. the problem is that hard drives can be manipulated by rudy giuliani for russia. what's the evidence in that? napkins? well, there is actual evidenceie of it. >> but the point is, it's there's no evidence. so you're engaging in a conspiracy oou engaged, glenn.ah >> oh, jesse, are you concerned about you just heard there. i am. big brother. used to just want to liste, bigy to us and now they want to tape our mouths shut. well, actuallyt to, 35% of our mouths. >> could you imagine? this was like a speechr mouths,h >> because that's what it feels like. you know, i get to say? 65% of what i think, but thee rest government gets to take the rest. >> no, no, no, no, no, no. govesaying the government is into tyranny ,but i think they're comfortable with it because they've already censored. they've alreadauselreadyy gaggey already arrested donald trump. they're trying to replace me a, a robot. >> they're trying to boycott and bankrupt our companies. so at a certain point, that makes me think they're into democracy, because the best part about democracy is we're givinin emocracyg theseto politicians power to represent us. >> we're not giving them power over us. >> they work for us. >> we have power over them. and the supreme court made it clear. the constitution's made it free clear. >> you can't abridge free speech yet the democrats sayiout on live televisionech, m saying, yeah, let's go. this is crazy. they're calling its . but it's actually just coconversation we're all havincg and we just have a great conversation. >> you remember in the colonial times, you used to just have thesenialmes he wos that would print the ridicule against the church or slaveryav or the kinorg, and it would have this great conversation in the country and. and the >> then we had television, and then they had these tv license, three medians, and corporations, and now we just have the interneent. >> so the government can just go through the back door of the internetternet a and hit kill s. >> no, that's whno, thy i'm goig to start street preaching. wow. okay. well, we look forward to tha th sandrlook fort. >> judge, are you sick of a leak? are you concerned that this is happening more ans isenind i? >> matt point and both sidesge that what these people are saying is that the governments th has the ability to skew americans viewe abs based upon their own politics. and what taibbi and schellenberg were talkings about is in 2019 and 2020, elring the presidentia9 and 20l election, we saw it happen. we saw the heads of the fb happ their our intelligence russunit andy, you know, that te laptop was russian disinformation. >> but what was most concerning was that they said it was not just in the united states with the fbi jus the cia homelan and homeland security, that it was with the u.k. as. >> well. and if you think back in 2016,in who did hillary go to to get russian disinformation on donald? went t >> she weno t to christopher steele, who was a spy in thewho in the u.k.. so it's not just in the united states. it's -- it's with our so-calledr partners in great britain. ners ibut this guy, dan goldmanr is dangerous because he thinks that takinoug away 35% of free o speech is okay because he isin couch. >> it adds in terms of ofe comp the company, whichan is nonsense . it's b.s. and he's saying that that laptops saying is reay you know, that hard drive may not be legitimate. ed it may have been manipulated because it might have been manipulated. beemanipulathere might be martp there watching us right now. >>righ but because it mayt is, be doesn't mean that it is. >> and unless you show actual manipulation, you cannot try to calm the american publicrd into thinking that that hard drive is not the rea thl drive,hen hunt especially when hunter biden admitted it was his and denyinadmittg laptop. harold did that.y did that surprise you byf co representative of congress? >> so it did a little bit. i love exchanges like this and with before congressional oe committees, oversight committees, because i think when you get too smartrsigcommit with fact based arguments going back and forth that theyoing they were yelling, it got a little noisy, but it was it was informative noise. it was substantive. and i think that.as schellenberg at least what i saw the exchanget whats gotconge the better of congressman goldman in the exchange, at least on the on the substancssby the e of what they were debating. every 15, 20 years, usually every , 40 years, we'd go through these kind of episodes in our country where we would really probugh ee and want to understand, examine how government might be pressuring individuals or institutio exaow sayimentn to say certain things or not say certain things. we saw during the civil rightsto era where people were eavesdropped on because we thought they might have been threat on,cause wes to countriea fighting vigorously for people's freedoms and thatit's a that balance, that recalibration always comes evernce ofy every every ten, 15, 20 years. and this, in a sense, is we're going to get a big one. one nextwe'll get a big one next year as the court takes up the missouri v biden case, casew which will determine what are the limits the government can cahiwhate limitsn exert on compr individuals and asking them to regulate or for that matter, tame or expand their speech. >> i f allegations are right that the government and it seems that some of the m are centric, that the government was in the business of trying to tell them what to do or trying do t to tell them what information was okay, what what information is permissible ha that's wrong.i'm gl and i'm glad this hearing is taking place. and again, these are the kindhe of oversight efforts. >> and i think the american people deserve, whether you agree with whawht happened r you disagree with what happened, we all should agree with the fact that no one's right to speak, whether i agree with you or disagree with you should be infringe th youd, because i don't like what you're saying. i'm a little disappointed that i'm going dont last becaue i would have loved to hear harold's rebuttal. and i'm afraid we won't have timef la to hear your response. >> i will respond. okay, good. i appreciate how you said that. over time, the embrace of free speech might have swung ideologica l. ther