for now, stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up on msnbc. >>e's much mor news coming up tonight, on the n show, five days until the u.s. government faces a possible disastrous shutdown. congressman mark pocan from wisconsin is here to discuss. that plus, he's called for a cessation of hostilities, but all parties in the israel-hamas war are asking about that. and i will speak with the israel and palestine director of human rights watch about possible war crimes. also the big blue wave this week. what biden and democrats can take away from tuesday night's big election win. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening. i am mehdi hasan. on saturday, president joe biden marked veterans day with a visit to arlington national cemetery in virginia. during his remarks, the president paid tribute to america's veterans and called them, quote, the steel spine of this nation. here is the message the former president, donald trump, chose to deliver last night for veterans day during a speech in new hampshire. >> the honor of our great veterans on veterans day, and we pledge to you that we will root out the communists, marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country. >> look, ever since donald trump made his way down that escalator and burst on to the political scene in 2015, we've grown used to his frequently unhinged and abuse of rhetoric. but tonight, i want to talk about a specific word used by trump there. vermin. that's not a word we often hear used in everyday conversation. in fact, it's a very specific where that carries a very specific historical connotation. the word was frequently used by not seized to dehumanize jewish people during the holocaust. for exampleaccording to historical accounts,n 1930, nine adolf hitler told the czech foreign minister, quote, this vermin must be destroyed, the jews are our sworn enemies. this isn't the first time trump has been caught echoing the rhetoric of not seize and white supremacists. a few weeks ago, he said undocumented immigrants were, quote, poisoning the blood of our country. which, again, echoes the rhetoric of hitler -- similar lines in mein kampf. you have it. ex president and current front-runner for the gop nomination, not once but twice in the last few weeks, taking a page right out of hitler's nazification playbook. surely, the media must be all over this, calling out his dangerous rhetoric for what it is, right? sadly no. here's how the new york times took the donald trump remarks yesterday. the headline, read trump takes veterans day speech in a very different direction. i say red because they updated the -- veterans day speech, trump promises to root out the left. still not quite there. but it's a stark difference from the sanitizing they did the first time around. to be fair to the new york times, the same publication is out with some new and very important reporting on the very real dangers of a possible second trump term, especially when it comes to his immigration office. according to a bombshell piece that dropped yesterday, trump is planning an extreme expansion of the first term crackdown on immigration if he returns to power in 2025. quote, including preparing to round up undocumented people already in the united states on a vast scale and detain them in sprawling camps while they wait to be expelled. yes, camps. that is not l, according to the times trump also promised to clamp down on illegal immigratio for example, during the second trump term, the visas of foreign students who participated in anti israel are prpastinian protests would be canceled. u.s. officials abroad would be directed to expand ideological screening of these applicants, making it easier to block people that the trump administration considers to have, quote, undesirable attitudes. this is a man who doesn't just borrow the rhetoric and policies of dictators and demagogues, but openly admires and phrases them. again, he areas last night. >> president xi is like -- there is nobody in hollywood that can play the role of president xi. and the look, the voice. and kim jong-un had a good relationship with. he's a tough, smart guy. >> he loves him. that new reporting from the times, by the way, comes on the heels of a story brought to you on this program last week. as detailed by the washington post, trump and allies have already been hashing out specific plans to use the justice department to punish -- should he win a second term. and also to deploy the military against protesters on him in -- 2025. these reports should terrify each and every one of us. trump isn't hiding his authoritarian ambitions for a second term. from punishing his political opponents to locking up immigrants in camps, to deploying the military. all while echoing the hateful rhetoric of adolf hitler. we know exactly what we can expect if he retakes the white house in 2024. but hey, what was it about joe biden's age again? here to discuss more, jason stanley, a professor philosophy at yale university, also the author of how fascism works, the politics of us and them. jason, thanks for coming back on the show. let's start with trump's use of the word vermin. am i wrong to make the historical comparison to antisemitic propaganda during the not-so-years? >> no. i mean, this is -- this doesn't echo mein kampf, this is textbook mein kampf, except for an explicit mentioning of jews behind, left any antisemite we'll hear this from vocabulary directed against jews. but hitler himself was an antisemite, he took that jews were behind the international left, marxism, communism. but his real target was democracy, and anyone who was pro democracy or labor unions, trade unions, he labeled as marxists. this over broad use of marxist to target, basically, any political opponent, this is a familiar from fascism and the way you attack democracy. and of course, labeling you are political opponents vermin, yeah, and the knots is targeted their political opponents, they targeted people who are in incarceration and concentration camps, they targeted suspected communists, socialists as eternal enemies. this is right out of mein kampf. >> jason, there seems to be some collective amnesia even among members of the liberal left about just how bad the trump administration was, and the idea that because we have survived one term of trump we could surely survive another. it won't be that had the second time around. there are guardrails. how bad do you think a trump's second term could be compared to the first? >> mehdi, you and i talked about this during the first trump administration. the way that people said it was -- he is just talking. as a result, when the coup came, when he attempted a coup, people were surprised, even though he was telling you he wasn't going to leave power. this is what is astounding about the vocabulary and rhetoric of authoritarians. nobody believes them. they tell you what they are going to do and nobody believes them. >> jason, let's talk about the other authoritarians. it is not just trump, there is a whole movement. listen to what republican national committee chair had to say today when asked about trump's remarks just this morning. >> are you comfortable with this language coming from the gop front runner? >> again, i'm not going to comment on candidates and their campaign messaging. >> campaign messaging now, that's what vermin is. jake, it is true to say, is it not, that there is no trump fascist threat without the constant enabling of the entire republican party? >> and that was true about the not sees as well. it's exactly the same structure. the conservatives, the traditional, right in the alt-right, they -- hitler thought this was just a mad man, they could control him. we have to remember that throughout the 1930s, it wasn't yet the final solution. it was, you know, hunting down communists, hunting down -- shutting down the media, turning everything into loyalty to the commander. this is exactly what happens. the conservatives talk about they could control the person who's very openly and anti-democrat fascist. unfortunately, there are anchors -- echoes of history right here. >> too many echoes. jason stanley, always a pleasure. thank you for your time. let's continue this conversation with congressman mark pocan, a democrat from wisconsin. congressman, thank you for coming back on the show. let's pick up where i just left off with jason stanley. we know republicans aren't taking the risks of trump's rhetoric seriously. they are happy to defend him. are democrats? would you call the ex president a fascist? >> thanks for having me, mehdi. i think clearly trump embodies everything that is against humanity. i have watched him since he's become president only get worse and worse and worse in the rhetoric. the rhetoric has gotten worse. i think if he came into office again you would see many fascist things happen under a second trump administration. i think we need to call him out, republicans are just plain afraid. all they do is play to their base. donald trump is successful with the most extreme elements in that base. therefore, donald trump is calling all the shots. i've said it before, it is not a political party for republicans anymore. it's a cult. a cult of personality. that is very dangerous. >> it's a cult of personality, and the personality is and incoherent, rambling, racist fascist. and yet, he is rivaling your candidate, your leader, president joe biden in the polls. in fact, in some of the battleground states, he is leading in the polls. joe biden is behind in some of those key states. and then you throw in some of the third party candidates who are running, thinking of running, robert f. kennedy junior, cornell west, jill stein declared this week for the green party. we know the damage she did in 2016. and maybe joe manchin. things are not looking good for joe biden, are they? >> right now, a year out, when barack obama was running for reelection, in his poll numbers were down, there were pundits that said he should drop out of the race. there is many parallels. i'm not as worried. i think at the end of the day, people are going to look at what we did, especially in those first two years when we had democratic majorities in the house and senate, with a white house rebuilding our nation's infrastructure, roads and bridges. water delivery systems, broadband. so much more. the most comprehensive climate change legislation, lowering the cost of health care and energy. we've got a lot to talk about. but right now, this is that period of time, just like it was for barack obama in a second term. >> congressman, let me jump in. i've made the bronco vomit comparison as well. it's a good comparison. having said, that barack obama -- for not, trump the personality cult, and he didn't have to worry about 3 to 4 independent candidates running third party. >> but romney could at least appeal to someone with a portion of a brain, right? donald trump has done nothing in four years to gain any additional support. in fact, he's lost. it places like wisconsin, when you look at suburban milwaukee, waukesha county in that area, those are fiscally conservative republicans who find donald trump reprints. if they are not necessarily going to go vote for donald trump again. maybe they will vote for one of these third party candidates. but i think at the end of the day, they are going to see you either have a choice of joe biden or donald trump. >> yeah. >> i think many of those folks are going to look at donald trump and not be able to stomach him for four more years. >> before we get a, break and we've got a lot more to talk about with, you but i do have to ask you right now about a looming government shutdown now just five days away. yesterday, republican speaker mike johnson, the new speaker, introduced a two tiered, laddered continuing resolution, quote unquote, to fund the government. democratic senator chris murphy called that approach today gimmicky. but he said he is, quote, open to what the house is talking about. there are no cuts or poison pill cuts involved in this resolution. are you open to it as well in order to prevent the shutdown? >> here is the problem with it. the house republicans have proven themselves and capable of governing. last week, we had to appropriation bills that we did. hundreds of amendments and they couldn't pass the bills at the end of the day. there are middle schools that have student councils that are more effective, and probably insulting middle schoolers right now, than the u.s. house representatives under republican control. if we give multiple dates that we would actually potentially have a closed down, and that would be a real problem. at least it is better than maybe what we saw in some past proposals, but it is still very problematic when you have the congress and that is still unable to function like this congress. >> congressman, please stick around. after a quick break, i do want to discuss what's happening in gaza with you. don't go away. go away. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i've never been healthier. only pay for what you need. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. 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(carolers) ♪ we tried to tell him but he paid us a lot... ♪ (husband) it was a lot... ♪ mhmmm ♪ (vo) this holiday turn any iphone, in any condition, into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium, apple tv 4k, and six months of apple one. all three on us. >> to know how many civilians it's holiday everyday with verizon. have been killed, mr. prime minister? do you know how many civilians have been killed? do you have an accounting of the number? >> i would -- wouldn't trust the hamas numbers. >> what's your number? >> it's lower than there is. >> that's what israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu had to say about civilian casualties and gaza on meet the press earlier today. according to palestinian officials, more than 11,000 people in gaza have been kied by israeli forces since october 7th, including over 4000 children. u.s. officials now say they have growing confidence and the death toll reports from gaza's health ministry. that's quite a shift from president biden's very controversial public remarks last month, where he said he had no notion the palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed. still with us is democratic congressman -- he released a statement last month calling for a cessation of hostilities by all parties, and for more humanitarian aid, but has not publicly supported calls for a cease-fire. congreman, are you comfortable with israel using u.s. supplied weapons and military aid to commit what they human rights watch his called possible war crimes in gaza? are you comfortable with this administration saying there are no limits on how israel uses american weapons and gaza? >> i think there's a lot more of us who are asking to put restrictions on anything that's going to go to israel. our question is, right now, i feel that this is a collective punishment on the palestinian people in gaza. this isn't about attacking hamas. it was a horrific attack, and i think they have a right to go after hamas, but this is not -- 4500 kids are clearly not hamas. 40 buildings in northern gaza being demolished or destroyed is not about going specifically after hamas. and that's the problem right now that we're seeing. it's way too expensive by israel. and we're trying to call it out. many of us are saying, stop the bombing, substation of hostilities, cease-fire, and common language is all the same -- and official language, it's a little different. but i think the bottom line is, what's happening right now is a little too aggressive on behalf of the israelis, and we need that to stop. >> he said it's about difference in language, but common language. let's get specific, congressman. all the world's major humanitarian aid groups, you and agencies, the u.n. secretary general, the head of the w.h.o., the pope, even the president of france this weekend have all called for a cease-fire in gaza. why haven't you and 95% of your congressional colleagues done the same? >> actually, many more have. part of the problem is there's the idea that a resolution in congress was the best way to go forward. look, we just explained the clown show that i kiss. there's no way a resolution is gonna pass through congress. -- that includes fighting for more humanitarian aid. i think a lot of groups missed that opportunity a few weeks ago when joe biden gave us a supplemental. we're right now doing a letter -- asking for a cease-fire, immediate cessation of hostilities. and what's the plan? because i don't think there's a plan at all. but what's the next step that are gonna happen? we are gonna have more signers in that resolution. in fact, what i recommended to the organizations out there, i've heard at least 40 members say essentially a cease-fire, including language that i use. but we need to put that out there just on a single resolution that everyone knows has no chance of passing isn't the only strategy. and i think unfortunately for too many weeks, people have only focused on that. and they're trying to pivot -- all these statements. >> i get the point you're making. but your congressman who supported medicare for all, green new deal, stuff that can pass through congress either. and you say you support those things because it's aspirational. you want to set a standard. when i do that for a cease-fire? why not tonight say, look, i know it's not gonna get the congress, but i'd like to see a cease-fire? >> because i think we have two or four years to deal with it. this is got to be immediate. that's why we say immediately stop the bombing, immediate cessation of hostilities. a cease-fire, an official language, sets up a process that eventually, two weeks or two months, you stop the bombing, that's too long. we need to stop the bombing now, and that's why we're trying to get more members to say that, and pushed the white house to say that. but i mean, come on, a resolution in congress with mike johnson is probably not gonna ever do the right thing. we all knew that. so let's make sure that we're forcing -- every possible way to make sure that no more bombs are hitting hospitals or schools or refugee camps. >> we've got less than 60 seconds left, but i have to ask you. you've been attacking the pro israel group, aipac. -- do you believe it distorts the debate over gaza and capitol hill? there's no palestinian version of aipac -- is that? >> last session, during the elections, there were two groups that came in and did something never before -- cybercrimes -- cyber currency and aipac, and spent millions in primaries -- the cryptocurrency guy just got prosecuted, right? so you only have aipac left. the problem is, they raise money from big repu