outfront tonight, crisis in america. just take a look at this video. sums it all up. you at home watching, me, all of us are hurdling fullboard a cliff that could be our doom. this is the so-called fiscal cliff. $15 trillion in debt climbing every day. $2.8 trillion in tax cuts scheduled to expire this year. another debt ceiling drama looming. if we hit this cliff, we'll die. tonight i spent the day hearing the conversation at the fiscal summit from the key players, a bipartisan group including president bill clinton, treasury secretary timothy geithner, house budget committee chair paul ryan, house speaker john boehner, alan simpson, and what i heard from awful them is a bipartisan call for action and alarm. >> the next into years could be the most consequential two years we see in washington and have seen in the last 50 or 60 years. >> and interest rates will go up so fast you won't be able to catch your breath. >> how much? how much are they going snup some wall street investors, the most bearish, say americans could relive the late '70s, early '80s. one investor told me he's mauking big bets in the treasury market, 17% for a mortgage. that may be incredibly dire, but it's happened before. debt on debt on debt means interest on interest on interest. so we did the numbers. current projections from the cbo say the u.s. will spend, prepare yourself for this one, $624 billion in interest in ten years. we will spend more on interest than on medicaid in six. this is absolutely not okay. i interviewed speaker boehner and asked him whether armageddon is avoidable. >> we all know social security, medicare, medicaid, they're all bankrupt. it's not like there's money in the social security trust fund or the medicare trust fund. it's all been spent. >> still, the speaker told me that to approve the debt ceiling increase this year, he's going to demand spending cuts and reforms dollar for dollar. >> debt ceiling going to go up? >> i think i've made it pretty clear right here. allowing the debt ceiling to go up without addressing our fiscal challenge would be the most irresponsible thing that i could do. >> okay. the reality is it this. the debt ceiling must and it will go up, but is there a solution that isn't just talking politics and pot getting anything done. yes. >> ich read every word of the simpson-bowles report. i believe could you put together enough democrats if you could >> yes, virginia, there is a santa claus solution to the debt crisis, it's call simpson-bowles. it would cut taxes to three bracket, 12%, 22%, 28%. there are places where al all pay more. and there will be cuts to mortgage rate reductions. but it's better than that cliff. sometimes i wonder if the democracy our country is so proud of, the democracy that happens here in this building, isn't actually what's putting the behind behind the lemmings tales. >> is democracy what sends us over the cliff? >> we're in our 223rd year of our experiment in democracy in representative government. its r it's not worked well if you go back to the days of the greeks or romans. there's some point at which they had problems. >> the view are from america's cliff makes the view you from every rest look like a little hill. if we fail, all the opportunities, liberties and luxuries of being american are at risk of becoming history. sort of like the greeks and romans. so let's do a deal. playing for the democrats tonight, mark warner. and tom coburn, good to see you both. and i know you've both been on the show a lot talking about ideas and compromise, gang of six. and here you are tonight. so let's see what we can do. you're in the middle of conversations, right? >> that's correct. >> and how close are you to something that could be significant in your group? >> i think we're close, but the point is to get the politics out of it, presidential politics out of it and actually work on the real problems. and that still has some influence as we work because there's political jockeying for what's going to happen in november and what we need on do is throw all that out and start thinking about the best long term position for the country. >> both of you have been doing that and it seems like you've accepted a lot of cuts, he's accepted tax increases, revenue increases. this is a deal. >> we found a plan to get us between $4 trillion and $5 trillion off our debt. it wouldn't be exactly what tom wanted or exactly what i wanted, but at the end of the day, the alternative, we're going over this cliff. there should be no elected official that will have any excuse come the end of this year to say they didn't see it coming. so we have to get out of our foxholes. i think there is a majority in the senate and even a majority in the house. we have to make it safe for folks to do the right thing and as tom as said, that means you'll probably make some folks mad along the way, but at the end of the day, the value add not just to our economy but the overall confidence in our institutions would be enormous. >> and do you think that the american people now are ready to hear they'll be cuts to medicare? >> well, i think that's one failure of the president. here's the problem and define it accurately and say there's all sorts of solutions. what we ought to do is make the process work. the reason i voted for bowles-simpson is i wanted to get it on the floor of the senate so the senate could do its work. and then have everybody vote and defend their votes on what they think is the best solution to it. but ultimately we can come to an agreement on the senate floor. so bowles-simpson is a wonderful start, it's not everything i'd want, not everything mark would want, but we have a chance to amend that and come up with what the senate, have the house do the same thing, and let's send a signal to the world that we'll fix our problems. it will change our economy tomorrow if we did that in terms of growth. >> the confidence and debt rating. we'll get to 365 days soon. >> remember, we have american business sitting on $2.5 trillion in cash on their balance sheets. giving them the pre-predict ability that we'll meet our obligations and a tax code that's simpler as well as entitlement programs that can be sustainable, i think that's a job generator. >> do you think the conversation would be different if the president that come out early and endorsed simpson-bowles? >> i think the president should have done more to explain the problem. he did come out and endorse our gang of six plan. i think that maybe cost us some votes. i think there have some particularly in the house that if the president endorses anything, it will be immediately assigned why they can't be for it. i think it falls to a group of bipartisan senators willing to at that time first set of arrows from both sides and both of us have, to lay out a plan and i hope and i think the president will be supportive of that. >> and this issue of democracy, which i brought up with speaker boehner today, that we've got a payroll tax cut that is important to people, but once people have these things, it becomes hard to take them away. bush tacketts a great example. wanted to play a sound by the about what president clinton said about the tax cuts. >> you could attach me at 100% and you wouldn't balance the budget 37 if middle class age wages were going up, i don't think they would object to going back to the tax rates that obtained when i was president. >> will we have the tax rates go away? if they go away for everybody, it's $2.8 trillion. >> no one's talking about putting them all back in, but i agree with president clinton. beyond 2 x of poverty, everybody whether have to have skin in the game. and even if it's ady minute fuss amount, because this a national crisis. admiral mullen said this is a greater threat than terrorism. >> how do you stimulate the economy and have a fair tax system. we passed the bush tax codes and didn't cut spending to pay for it. it's easy to pass a tax cut, it's hard to pass a tax cut that you pay for. >> a lot of people in your party tend to believe that a tax cut just pays for itself. >> and sometimes it does. but the key is how do you create long term certainty and confidence so that the money that mark talked about sitting on the side actually gets invested and we create wealth. >> if you you create jobs without creating wealth, you haven't done anything for the economy, so you have to do it. and my worry even though i'm for let's have the free for all, let's have the debate, if you tax the people who are the job creators, you've actually hurt our growth and you've heard the rise in tax revenues that would come to the government. what we know in the reagan years is when take you away a lot of the deductions and things people have lobbied for and you flatten and broaden the base, what you have is significant increased economic growth. 4.6% over 70 months. unbelievable. >> you can actually have both because disproportionately, folks at the top end take more advantage of the tax breaks than others. so you can have a simpler code, you can have that predict ability and you can maintain the progressivity that's important that allows those of us who have done well to say, all right, we'll chip into make sure that the next generation does well. >> thank to both of you. i'll switch the shakespeare line. first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. how about we kill all the lobbyists. >> members of congress are the problem. >> and the business community needs to step up and say this has to get fixed. we all have to have some skin in the game. >> thanks to both. >> you bet. >> a president obama the first female president? a new twist in the controversial pardons including haleigh barbour. tonight a man freed is facing new charges. and the fbi getting involved in the massive losses at jpmorgan. [ male announcer ] this... is the at&t network. a living, breathing intelligence teaching data how to do more for business. [ beeping ] in here, data knows what to do. because the network finds it and tailors it across all the right points, automating all the right actions, to bring all the right results. [ whirring and beeping ] it's the at&t network -- doing more with data to help business do more for customers. ♪ our second story out front, president obama up nine points over mitt romney among women voters. this is according to the latest gallup poll. and last night we were talking about the cbs/new york times poll which showed romney up by three points, which was within the margin of error, but still surprised people on the panel. and it is right now nine points in the president's favor according to gallup. but does that mean he's the first female president? this is what an op-ed in the post said. it says monday's activities veered into pandering as obama brazenly flauntsed his feminine mystique. something about it is just, i don't know, he's found a mystique? obama also appeared on "the view" today where he talked about getting teased by the first lady and coaching his daughter's basketball team. >> we're celebrating 40 years title ix. and it shows when girls are given the opportunity and they're competing and working as a team, it makes them stronger, makes them more confident. it's one of the great things that's happened during the course of my lifetime is women's sports becoming just as important, just as powerful. >> cnn's chief political analyst gloria borger is with me, and also bill burton is here. ron in new york. they are on on the political strike team which we debut tonight, 20 of the best independent political thinkers in the business. we'll got their perspectiveses all the way through the election. we're talking about the strategy on attracting women and we asked and it was nearly unanimous, almost every single one of the 20 and maybe the people downstairs cheering mibd me that you can probably hear, they are women after all cheering for the president. i have to say, something about this, though, as i was watching on video, i'm like maybe the president needs to spend time with some men. i see him with six women on "the view," i see him -- >> but you say that as a joke, but it's actually true. because here's the problem for president obama and i don't know, bill, you may disagree with me, but he has to widen that gender gap and make it a gul much because he doesn't do as well as mitt romney does with men about so that if he's losing men, which he is, he has to win women by a wide margin. now, historically, democrats do generally win women, but he's not leaving anything up to chance. so he's at "the view," i'm sure there will be pieces of legislation on capitol hill that democrats will roll out that are pro women, they've had the lill ledbetter act. pay kuwaiti very important. but i think he's got to make that gap even larger.very important. like the first female president may help. is this a full born strategy? >> do i agree in the sthaens there is no way for the president to win if he doesn't have a good advantage with women voters. and it's not just lilly ledbetter. look at the choice on the supreme court. mitt romney says he would put scalia on the supreme court. a huge difference on contraception. mitt romney came out to the right of rick santorum on contraception. so i think issue by issue, the president will have a real case to make against mitt romney. >> the president did also say -- mitt romney said in a debate that he wouldn't touch the contraception rules. the new hampshire. >> he did. but that won't stop help from talking about it. >> like it is is that mitt romney has had a lot of different positions and he needs to be held accountable if what he said during this campaign and where he is on women's issues, be contraception or choice, and further to the right than the most far to the right republicans in the race. >> can we talk about the spouses being the character witnesses for the candidates? >> first i kept hearing this what, what, in my ear? and i thought there was something wrong. no, ryan, it's you. >> so sorry. well, there's always something wrong with me as you know and one of the things is my deep hunger for the truth. and i've got to say the idea that mitt romney was to the right of rick santorum on contraception certainly strikes me as a curious position. but one thing i'll also say with regard to what gloria has said is that barack obama won women by 13 percentage points in 2008. that's a pretty big margin that contributed to his big margin in that election. and if in the gallup poll he's leading by nine points, that suggests a tremendous amount of erosion. and if it's anything like the cbs/new york poll in which romney was actually ahead among women, and there's a lot of criticisms about that poll, but if it's anywhere close to it that, that's really, really rough news for the president. so i encourage the president really do everything you possibly can on this front because that's the way you'll make this a fair fight. >> just on the facts in terms of mitt romney and how far to the right he got, during the debate on contraception, mitt romney said not only was he not for what the president did on contraception with health care reform, but he said he was against title x, which is federal funding for family planning. which is something that's so bipartisan, that george h.w. bush when he was in congress co-sponsored it and president nixon signed it into law. >> was santorum for that provision? >> no. >> so the distinction you draw is problematic, right? >> no, the distinction is that mitt romney is further to the right -- >> given that they have the same position on title -- >> romney is to the right of santorum. >> it's in your interests to talk about mitt romney as an extremist on the social and cultural issues. because his economic appeal is to independent voters. independent voters don't like extreme social issues, so you have to portray him as extreme. >> one or topic. bill clinton, we were talking about the terrible discourse here in washington and he talked about when he lost to republican bob in-glis as part of the far shift to the right, here's what bill clinton said. >> this by was on the judiciary committee that impeached me and it wasn't enough for him. he's a very good guy, by the way. >> i mean, come on. if you can forgive and forget that, we can get stuff done here. >> for give and forget. >> makes you really miss bill clinton. >> all right. thanks to all three of you. appreciate it. just one of those moments. all right. our third story up front, controversial pardon by haley barbour, obviously you know the back story to this, about an wow has gotten more controversial because one of the inmates that the governor pardoned in january is being charged with driving under the influence, accused of leaving the scene of an accident after killing 18-year-old charity smith while driving drunk. harry bostick was among those pardoned by haley barbour earlier this year. the retired irs agent had three dui convictions when the governor decided to give him a second chance. ed lavendera is covering the story "outfront" for us tonight. it's hard to put in any other words, just a terrible tragedy. what is the reaction now? >> in is one of the stories the more you uncovered, the more flabbergasted you got. it didn't get quite as much attention as the four murderers that were pardoned who worked at the governor's mansion and were pardoned. but when you peel away the layers, it's very troubling. a former irs investigator, had very shal friends in the town of oxford, mississippi. former u.s. attorneys who in the process of applying for this pardon wrote glowing letters on his behalf. pleading for his pardon of his third dui conviction. miss friends wrote he had kicked his habit, he had overcome his problems and he wasn't drinking anymore. they voted to recommend him for a pardon. all put in a package, sent off to the governor's office and then a week later, he's involved in an accident suspected of driving drunk again that ends in the death of this 18-year-old girl, charity smith. he's actually sitting in jail for almost three months when the governor decides to pull the trigger and give harry bostick this pardon. the governor at the time said he had no idea that this accident had happened. we've uncovered e-mails that suggest otherwise that the governor's office was told that he had been in this accident, that he was still drinking and still the pardon went through. >> a terrible story. interesting that you've got itten e-mail evidence in a perhaps what the governor said he knew is not what he really knew. what happens from here in terms of the governor i'm not saying culpability in this, but what's going to happen to him and also what kind of punishment does mr. bostick face now? >> well, what happens how is that harry bostick has just been indicted by a grand jury in mississippi. he faces three charges. a dui drinking charge, but also more seriously a dui death charge in connection with the death of charity smith. he faces at least 30 years in prison. but remember, in a third dui charge, a felony, was wiped from his record. so this fourth dui arrest becomes his third and that could affect what kind of punishment he faces in the future. but the trial is still several months away. >> ed levin dare are a, thank you very much. ahead, breaking details about george zimmerman's injuries. we now have information about what state he was in on the night he was shot. and this is something you definitely need to know if you're following this case. and the fbi now involved in the jpmorgan case. that's next. [ sneezes ] ♪ got it all. here. have a good day, honey. i love you, ok. bye, mom. [ female announcer ] sam's mom is muddling through her allergies. what can she do? she can get answers at walgreens. with guidance and information to help her make informed choices for her allergy needs. l