imploding. >> would it surprise you to know the same newt gingrich was paid more than $1.5 million to help freddie mac make friends. >> i was glad to offer strategic advice. we did it for a number of companies. the group was very successful. >> grinning rich sees no conflict. his critics see hypocrisy. we begin with breaking news. a new judge will preside over the case of new penn state football coach jerry sandusky, this change prompted by complaints the first tie had ties to the charity second mile. new changes about whether the changing story of a key witness jeopardizes the criminal case against sandusky who is accused of raping at least eight young boys. the mother of one of sandusky's alleged victims says she's sickened he's free on bail and sickened to broadcast an interview in which he proclaims he does nothing wrong. >> it makes me really sad my son can't go out and have a normal life, he can't go hang out at the hall because he might run integerry. he gets to go to the mall and shop and do whatever he wants to do. that aggravates me. he should be in jail. >> we begin with sarah gan ham, a reporter. you had a clans to look at a police report involving a key witness in this case, mike mcqueary. tell us about it. >> reporter: well, i did review this document. it's about two pages. it does say that mike mcqueary, it says a lot of what he said in his grand jury testimony. it does not say anything about him talking to police or about him stopping the assault which he says he saw in progress. that's different from an e-mail that we saw yesterday that -- where mike mcqueary is telling me he did do something to make sure the assault stops, talked to police as well as university officials. this document outlines what he saw, what happened that night. he says that it all went down in just about a minute. so it wasn't very long at all. like i said, it doesn't say anything about police in the document at all. >> more on that in just a minute, that conflicting story, the conflict in that story could be important as this case proceeds towards trial. sara, the first judge freed sandusky on bail. prosecutors objected to that. why the new judge and what do we know about that? >> reporter: we know that robert e. scott, a senior judge from westmoreland county, pennsylvania, is going to be hearing the preliminary hearing on december 7th. the administrative office for pennsylvania courts which oversees judges says this comes because he doesn't have any known ties to penn state or to the second mile which is the charity that jerry sandusky founded and where grand jurors say he found his victims. you could be hard pressed to find people in this town that don't have ties to penn state or the second mile. the second mile is a big charity. penn state is obviously a big part of this town. it's something we've been talking about all week, is that people tend to have some connection in some way to one or two of those organizations. so this judge was brought in from out of town so that that doesn't become an issue. >> sara, one more quick one. in firing essentially joe paterno, penn state trying to turn the page. you learned important information that bradley himself does have at least a modest role in this investigation. >> reporter: yeah, he did testify. we did learn that tonight, john. we don't know what he testified to. it was over the summer. nothing about his testimony is mentioned in that 23-page grand jury indictment. so we don't know exactly what he testified to or if it was important to the investigation. we just know that he was a witness. >> sara ganim on the campus. thank you. coach sandusky is accused of sexually molesting boys over a 15-year period, when our next guest was a graduate assistant. nat not only looked with jerry sandusky and joe paterno, he brings unique perspective to this story because he was sexually abused as a child. i want to thank you for sharing your story with us tonight. let me start with your time at penn state and your relationship with jerry sandusky. when you were there at the time, any red flags or suspicions? >> i didn't think there was anything going on. i know he was surrounded all the time by little boys. it was part of his second mile foundation. they were around the program a lot. i would notice that on the camps in the summer when we had a lot of kids come up, he'd be a little more touchy feely or poking at them more readily than i thought was appropriate. but outside of that, i never saw him conduct himself in any way that would have been sexual misconduct or considered sexual misconduct. >> when this case hit the front pages in the national news broadcast, what went through your mind? >> i was shocked. one of my friends from pennsylvania who i played football next to in college called me and made reference to sandusky, and it sounded bad. so i went home that night and i put on the internet. and i read through a lot of different documents, and then i read through the grand jury's report. i was just mortified. i'm pretty well grounded. i've worked on myself for a long time. but i was just taken aback and i said someone has got to start standing up and saying something for the survivors and saying they can make it, they can make it through. i'm tired of seeing these people create these thiefdoms where bad things happen and it's all brushed under a rug. >> let's talk some about that if you don't mind. i appreciate your courage coming forward this the sense that coach sandusky is accused of taking advantage of underprivileged kids who came to his charity to get help, mentoring, tutoring. he's accused of violating just about every code of decency and morality. in your case, your mother was sick and a neighbor to console you, seemingly to help you, then turned into an abu bu sive relationship. what happened? >> i was young. my mom was diagnosed when i was 8 for melanoma. she went from for radical surgeries. my father was distracted and very stressed. at the time we all ran around. we were outside all the time. a neighbor faned interest in me and concern and pretty much it was exactly what happened with how jerry groomed his folks. fortunately i grew early and was able to stop it. my mom got me counseling for some concentration problems. in that counseling i was able to share that i was being abused. i stopped it before that time, but when i shared that, the weight just lifted off my shoulders. so i'm trying to encourage people that have had that horrific experience to get out there and get some counseling with licensed people. it can happen to anyone. we had a good family. there was crisis in my family, that's for sure. that's one of the earmarks and one of the types of families that are often targeted in addition to underprivileged kids that don't have is a dad around and don't have the means to have that support. i'm just -- i really feel for these survivors. i want to tell them they can make it. >> i thank you for making that statement here. i want you to listen because i want to get your perspective. perhaps some of coach sandusky's victims or watching, or other people who are afraid to speak up or share their own stories. i want you to listen to some of the conversation bob costas had with sun dusky the other night where he's denying he committed crimes, but he does acknowledge beyond bizarre, beyond rep when sive behavior. >> are you a pedophile? >> no. >> are you sexually attracted to young boys, to underage boys? >> am i sexually attracted -- >> yes. >> -- to underage boys? sexually attracted? i love young people. i love to be around them. but no, i'm not sexually attracted to young boys. >> matt, he went on in that interview to talk about horseplay in the showers and maybe inappropriate touching, but denying he did anything inappropriate of a sexual nature. given your experience, when you hear somebody like that talking, what goes through your mind? >> i'd like to make a clarification first. what jerry did had nothing to do with sex. it's all about power and control. it's like rape. it's attacking a very inferior or subordinate, submissive person that can't defend themself physically or emotionally. it has nothing to do with sex. the drive of a pedophile is to control another person. the hesitation he had in there and the delay, i think he was trying to figure out what to sachlt he didn't come out and say, no, absolutely not. it's just disgusting. the second part, john, if you could refresh my memory, the second question you had for that? >> just the sense, when that goes through your mind -- we can move on because i want -- you understand the culture. you worked as a graduate assistant at penn state. joe paterno is legendary coach, an icon on campus, a god on that campus. jerry sandusky was the right-hand man, heir apparent, defensive coordinator at line backer university. i want you do listen when bob costas is asking him, even after the graduate assistant brought it to joe paterno's assistant, that he saw a rape in the shower. bob costas asked did coach paterno ever confront you, to jerry sandusky. let's listen. >> did joe paterno have any information regarding objectional opportunities on your part prior to that report in 2002? >> many -- i can't totally answer that question. my answer would be no. >> did joe paterno at any time ever speak to you directly about your behavior? >> no. >> never? >> no. >> he never asked you about what you might have done? >> no. >> he never asked you if you needed help, if you needed counseling? >> no, no. >> never expressed disapproval of any kind? >> no. >> again, you understood the culture, you were there, you know the relationship between these two men. you know coach paterno. a graduate assistant comes to him and tells him he saw his right-hand man raping a young boy in the shower and joe paterno never says anything. is that possible? >> the whole thing just seems to have a bizarre connotations. number one, coach knows everything that goes on down there, meaning coach paterno and he has his thumb on the pulse of everything. i know there was a strained relationship between jerry and coach. jerry used to come up to me and say, man, i hate that guy, i never really wanted to get engaged with that. i sort of minded my own business. you know, i don't know why. i can't figure out why. the whole thing -- i'd like to say, if i was -- i was four years younger than mike was when he was a graduate assistant. the power dynamic there is exceptional. coach not only has the most power on the campus, but probably in the state of pennsylvania, at least when i was there. he was reigning sportsman of the year in "sports illustrated." they were national champs. i think mike did what he thought he should have done, and that's gone to his superior, maybe not fast enough. certainly if i had been in that same situation and based on my background, i think i would have -- the hardest thing i would have had to have done would have been not to have really totally incapacitated jerry. my major concern would have been to protect the child as should be anyone out there, if they've seen a child or aware of a child or they suspect a child is being hurt, they need to go and get -- alert the authorities. they need to make noise. they need to make this stop. this is just total deviation. my high school coach, i never lost a high school game and it was like a hoosiers experience for me. that's why i got into coaching. i wanted to help kids the way my coach helped me. he had a saying, we're only as good as our worst player. if you are that person, you better work your butt off. more importantly, if you know that person you better do everything in your power to help that person get better. i think that's what we need to do. we need to help these kids, these kids that are so left out there on an island. and what we have to do is to let the authorities take care of the rest. i don't want to say who should have done what or why they should have done what. it's a tragedy all the way around. clearly, the well-being of a little boy was second nature to everyone involved there. that's the travesty there. >> so let me close by asking you this, and amen to everything you just said about trying to help these kids in putting them first. because of your experience with jerry sandusky, with the penn state program and the personal pain and the search you have had to get to where you are now, to have the courage to come out and talk about it f. you had five minutes from jerry sandusky, what would you say? >> he's a real pitiful man at this point. i might try to ask him to ask for forgiveness and try to go out and just admit -- self-awareness and self criticism is probably one of the hallmarks of a decent person, and we know and people lie, a book written by m. scott peck. he really explores evil. constituted by narcissim, lying and selfish behavior. so, you know, i think this whole thing, there's been a perception projected by penn state for years. i think maybe he got so caught up in it, he can't distinguish the reality from what's really evil there. and i don't know if i could really talk to him, but i'd try to get him to realize that he's got to repent. he's got to go do something to make those kids feel better. he's got to do something to make the situation better. it's horrific. but i will tell you this, if i ever see a kid, and i'll let those kids out there know, you got at least one big guy in your corner. >> matt paknis, i appreciate your bravery, both from your experience at penn state and your own personal journey. i can't thank you for coming on and sharing with us tonight. very much appreciate it. >> my pleasure, john. still to come, president obama tackles the china challenge and the penn state coach we just talked about who says he witnessed jerry sandusky raping a boy tells friends he stopped the rape. but the grand jury testimony says he didn't. the blockbuster impact of that next. i did it again. no worries, nick. 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[ male announcer ] we're making people the tomorrows they always dreamed of. what can we make with you? transamerica. transform tomorrow. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to talking, there is no fee. the strength of the prosecution's case against accused child rapist jerry sandusky could boil down to this question, did he or didn't he? did penn state graduate assistant mike mcqueary notify police after claiming to see sandusky raping a boy in the showers. the grand jury indictment says mcqueary, quote, saw a naked boy, victim two, whose age he needed to be ten years old with his hands up against a whaul being subjected to intercourse by a naked sandusky. the graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both victim two and sandusky saw him. the report says he called his father, then met with joe paterno, no mention of calling police. the morning call newspaper sent it last week insisting he did have discussions with police and university officials in charge of police. i did stop it, not physically, but made sure it was stopped when i left the locker room. no one could imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30 to 45 seconds. trust me. mcqueary is clearly trying to rebut criticism he didn't do enough to stop sandusky and to alert authorities. in doing so, could he be undermining the prosecution's case. wendy murphy is a former child abuse and sex abuse prosecutor and trent copeland, a prominent attorney. if you are sandusky's lawyer tonight and mcqueary appears to be telling a conflicting account, how do you use that to help the defense? >> first we need to establish whether this is confirmed. remember, if, in fact, mike mcqueary saw this and bent to the police, that really changes the game. this could be an effective game-changer for everybody involved in this case. if he saw this, he intervened, went to police. you would expect that would be contained in the grand jury report. the grand jury report is where evidence is taken, you're under oath, you have to tell the truth. if you didn't say it there, why is he saying it there. if we take him at his word, that he did intervene and went to police, the question becomes why didn't the police then investigate? are the police now covering up the fact they didn't investigate? and are they also on the take? i don't want to sound the alarm of the conspiracy theory in every corner, but this case continues to get stranger and stranger. so, look, this is a setback for the prosecution. if mike mcqueary is saying, look, i told the police this and it's not contained in the grand jury report, somebody is lying. >> wendy, if you're the prosecutor in this case, number one, you don't want your witnesses talking in public in any case, especially a case so sensitive. when you have a grand jury report that says one thing and e-mails from the only alleged eyewitness we know of that says other things, i assume that has to worry you because it makes the credibility of a very, very important witness in question. >> he is a very important witness, no doubt about it. the prosecution may well be glad that he's at least generating some sympathy for himself because we don't want all the potential jurors thinking he's a monster who let a child be raped. they may be secretly glad he said a little bit about this. i don't agree with trent that the grand jury report is the final document. it's a 23-page summary of thousands of pages of testimony. so if you read it with regard to what mcyear rhee did, it says he saw a situation, he was upset and he told his father, told paterno and so on. it's silent as to whether he did other things which doesn't mean he's inconsistent when he says he also told police. really the key i think in terms of the 23-page grand jury report which is a summary, the key there is to describe the ways in which these institutions engage in a coverup, if you ask me, and to put out the bare bones facts about the crimes that happened to these children. i'm not sure it's an inconsistency. i think it does help generate some sympathy for him. look, maybe he told the university cops what he saw, but that's not necessarily going to get you anywhere if you're trying to get outside law enforcement to get involved. remember, so many people at penn state all the way up the ladder to the president knew about this anal rape and either are under indictment for pernlgry for lying about what they knew or lost their jobs. the fact he may have told a university cop that there was this anal rape in the shower and that cop wouldn't do anything, wouldn't change much of the vor story if