david axelrod and republican national committee chairman reince priebus. also spending cuts, tax cuts, and what do women want in 2012 with senators barbara boxer and kay bailey hutchison. plus, an exclusive interview with nato secretary-general anders faux rasmussen and the exit of afghanistan. and chewing over the week with jeff zell mi and cnn congressional correspondent dana bash. i'm candy crowley, and this is "state of the union." vice president biden questioned mitt romney's business credentials on the stump. the obama re-elect team pumped out a small buy ad with a big bite attacking bain capital, the equity firm romney founded. >> they made as much money off it as they could, and they closed it down, they filed for bankruptcy without any concern for the families or the communities. >> like a vampire. they came in and sucked the life out of us. >> within hours camp romney was up with a web ad of its own and a story of its own. >> sti almost never got started. when others scheide away mitt romney private sector leadership team stepped in. >> building over a dream with over 6,000 employees today. >> if it wasn't for a company like steel dynamic, this county wouldn't have a lot. >> joining me to discuss this week's tale of two steel mills and other campaign adventures, obama campaign senior adviser david axelrod. david, thanks for joining us from beautiful downtown chicago, we appreciate it. >> beautiful indeed. >> yes, it is pretty. i wanted to start out with something that mitt romney said characterizing what your advertising is about. >> the purpose of the president's ads are not to describe success and failure but to somehow to suggest that i'm not a good person or not a good guy. >> and do you quibble with that? is not the gist of the ad that you all put out about bain capital, romney's former firm, that he is a rich, greedy guy who doesn't care about the middle class? >> no, i do quibble with that. the point of the ad is to look at his business record. the only credential that governor romney has offered the people of this country for running for the presidency is that he was a businessman. he never talks about the fact that he was governor of massachusetts because when he was governor of massachusetts, they went from 36 to 47th in job creation, and it was a pretty much of a disastrous period. so that he doesn't talk about. he talks about being a businessman and hints that somehow the things he did there prepare him to lead the country and its economy, and so it behooves us to look at what exactly he did. and the fact is that he wasn't about job creation, and he and his partners have acknowledged in candid moments, our job wasn't to create jobs, it was to create wealth for ourselves an our partners. they did it by any means necessary. >> well, it was to find -- he has had success stories, you will agree to that, but i mean what they are saying is, look, this was a private equity firm, an investment firm. we invested in businesses. we wanted them to succeed. some of them did, and some of them didn't. doesn't that tell you this is a guy with a business background who understands -- >> some of them -- >> -- what makes businesses tick. >> some of them did and some of them didn't, candy, but he always walked away with money, and that was the point. the point was that he didn't -- they didn't fail with the company. they didn't embrace the failure. they loaded that company, gst steel, with debt, and then they bankrupted the company. the company was in kansas city. they filed for bankruptcy in north carolina so this they could vacate some of their obligations to their workers. so the workers lost health care benefits and additional benefits that they were -- that they had negotiated for that they were promised, and governor romney's team walked away with at least $12 million. that is not -- that is what vice president biden was referring to. it is not right when you have two sets of rules where the guys at the top prosper no matter what happens and the workers down the line bear the brunt of it. that's the kind of dislocations we have had in our economy. it's what concerns people about what we're been. >> i want to move you on since you mentioned vice president biden to something that he talked about in youngstown, ohio. >> my mother and father believed that if my brother or sister wanted to be a millionaire, they could be a millionaire. my mother and father dreamed as much as any rich guy dreams. >> absolutely. >> they don't get us. they don't get who we are. >> do you understand why some people listen to that and do believe that the obama campaign is engaged in class warfare? that this was very definitely an attack on the rich? >> here is the point, we believe strongly, and most americans do, that we honor success, we celebrate success, but we want everybody to have a fair chance at it, a fair shot at it, and the question really is moving forward, what kind of economic policies do we want? if governor romney says that his business experience informs him about how he's going to move forward, look at that business experience and ask if episodes like gs steel are the ones that we want governing our economy. we want an economy in which people can get the education they need and the training they need. we want an economy where there are good middle class jobs available, and not where those jobs -- where wages are cut, benefits are cut, and people can't live a good middle class -- >> this happens to a lot of businesses, does it not, and it's happened over the course of time, that businesses -- this was in a particularly bad time for the steel industry, as you know, and isn't failure every much as instructive as success in terms of giving you an idea of what makes -- >> candy, let me ask you a question. if you were a worker at that steel mill and you lost much of what you worked for over a period of decades and your pension it turns out was underfunded by $46 million, your pension system, and you then watch the people who loaded your company with debt walk away with a profit leaving you without what you thought you earned. would you feel that was fair? >> if i were that person i certainly wouldn't. >> of course. well, i think that's the point. >> how i feel about it sort of is not at all germane. i was wondering if you think that isn't a business experience? romney's job, as you said -- >> i think -- look, i absolutely -- if you ask me was romney good at making money for himself and his partners? yes. if you ask me whether i think that outsourcing of jobs, offshoring of accounts, bankrupting companies, and profiting off those bankruptcies are a prescription for building the american economy and is good for -- is a good vision for our future, the answer to that is no. >> let me move you to the other thing that happened this week, which was "the new york times" report that a proposal before one of these super pacs, in this case a fairly wealthy conservative, although he says he's listed as an independent, that perhaps they would bring up reverend wright in a series of ads in time for the democratic convention. i want to play you some of the response from democrats to that. >> if ricketts wants to do that, if the gop, they want to do that? then guess what? you're putting mormonism on the table. >> should we look at the leaders of mitt romney's religion and examine whether they affected his politics? fair question isn't it? >> then we have to say what are the vies on the church that mitt romney put forth, the view that is black people were subsidiary to and inferior to white people? >> david, simple question in the last 30 seconds we've got. does the re-elect committee repudiate the idea that mormonism should be on the table? >> absolutely, and we have right along. we've said that's not fair game, and we wish that governor romney would stand up as strongly and as resolutely, consistently to refute these kinds of things on his side. instead, he's amplified them in the past and put logs on that fire, and that's not leadership. >> he did repudiate the reverend wright thing know, right? >> tepidly and reluctantly he did, but in february he actually raised the issue and said he thought it was fair game. so, you know, the problem is you have to be consistent in your position, and you have to be genuine and firm in your position. you can't be grudging in your position or you send the wrong signals and i think he sent the wrong signals. >> yet you all did put out a fund-raising letter on this suggesting that mitt romney was going to -- suggesting that republicans would use it, although the super pac in question said -- >> we put out a fund-raising letter because we're facing about $1 billion of super pac spending. this was one gentleman who was willing to write a $10 million check potentially to fund this campaign. that was the proposal. and we're facing that all over the country. karl rove has a $25 million campaign up right now with undisclosed money. money we don't know where it came from, running negative ads. he got one $10 million anonymous donor. our average donation is $55. it would take 181,000 donations to match the one donation karl rove got. we need to combat this kind of tactic. >> david axelrod, it's always great to have you on. i appreciate it. >> thanks, candy. good to be with you. the republicans' playbook for defeating president obama, the economy. >> where we're headed under this president is an economic decline, and what it is going to take is to have a president who is willing to lead and to fight. >> but highlighting a faltering economy may not sit well with republican governors in some key swing states. that with the chairman of the republican national committee. plus, the breaking news from libya that the lockerbie bomber has died. stay with us. today i'm talking with melonie who loves to garden but doesn't think walmart has all her favorite brands. you want to check it out? let's go. yes. ok, you're a gardener -- you're going to love this. low prices on round-up, miracle-gro -- it's a miracle! did you know walmart had the same great brands as every other gardening store? no, honestly i didn't. you know what'll really make your yard look great? what? these mosaic solar lights. oh they're beautiful. sunshine not guaranteed. low prices, gnome what i mean? even miracle-gro potting mix. you want one? three. three? uh, it's okay. see for yourself. walmart's got just what your garden needs. backed by our low price guarantee. yard well done. backed by our low price guarantee. now's the time to move from to where you want to go. look up. with u.s. bank let's get the wheels turning. use our strength & stability to open new opportunities. to lend, and lift ...every business...every dream... to new heights of prosperity. good things are happening. just look up. with u.s. bank. i tell you what i can spend. i do my best to make it work. i'm back on the road safely. and i saved you money on brakes. that's personal pricing. i am joined by republican national committee chairman reince priebus. let me start out with where i left off with david axelrod, and that is these outside super pac groups. you all spent about a day and a half trying to distance yourselves from the notion that reverend wright would be brought up by one of these fab lutionly wealthy people that want to come in and have their say-so in an election in the form of tv ads. isn't there just a huge problem here for you all as you move forward that you don't have or are not supposed to have control over what goes up on the air in your name? >> i think both sides have the same problem, and -- >> you have a lot more super pacs than we do. >> we don't know who's got what and how it's going to shake out. certainly obama spends nights raising tons of money whether it's george clooney and hollywood or people on wall street. mitt romney repudiated this particular issue and what's amazing about it to me, a day and a half spent and that the mediaened a "the new york times" would pick up on a proposal to perhaps do something in regard to a particular subject. i mean, this thing is so strong out, and to take a day and a half talking about this. you know what -- >> you know how this works. this was a big -- >> oh, i know how it works. it's the democrats and barack obama that want the story out there. he wants this story to play out in the media because for every day that david axelrod and this president don't have to talk about their broken promises when it comes to jobs, the debt, and the deficit, and the more time they can spend about talking about hypotheticals that may or may not come true, is a day they want to win on. so, look, this president's got a bigger problem, and his problem is no matter what he puts out there, no mat wear distractions he puts out there, he can't change the truth and escape the reality of where we are in this american economy. and it's no good. >> you know, mitt romney has to go through a lot of battle ground states and obviously that is the message. this economy is still bad. we spent a lot of money, still bad. i can do this better. and yet you have states like ohio, florida, virginia, iowa all battlegrounds to some degree or another with republican governors who are out there going, hey, the economy is getting better. how are you going to synthesize republican governors in states where they're trying to do some good things, where the economy is improving, with romney coming in and saying the economy is really horrible. >> it starts at the top. this is going to be a referendum on whether or not barack obama fulfilled the promises he made to the american people. i get your point, but the reality is things could be much, much better if we had a president that could actually make a promise and follow through on a promise. you have someone like mitt romney who spent his entire life making promises, keeping promises, understands how businesses work, understands how small businesses work. helped save hundreds of businesses. companies like staples and sports authority and others. no matter what david axelrod may say, president obama's business experience hasn't seen the inside of a lemonade stand. i think it's time to put someone in the white house that understands how job creation works in this country. >> the president has in fact during his term created jobs when we were hemorrhaging jobs when we started. >> mitt romney has helped create more net jobs in the state of massachusetts as governor than barack obama's helped net create in the entire country. >> he had a pretty bad record at least in terms of the 50 states in job creation. he was down near the bottom when he was governor. >> not only did he help create more net jobs than barack obama, he helped save the olympics, he helped save companies out there that were hurting, and the fact is every state has its own unique challenges, candy, and we all know that. wisconsin has different challenges than tennessee. we have different laws there than alabama. so every state is different, but as far as massachusetts goes in a vacuum, they're much better off with a mitt romney governor than many others. and so i would say this, if david axelrod and this president want to make this campaign about jobs, which is what we want it to be about desperately and we're going to keep going back to that, there's no chance that barack obama wins the presidency in november if the issue is jobs. >> is there anything at all that you give the president credit for in the last 3 1/2 years, something he did good? >> certainly i think we're all grateful and blessed that bin laden is not alive anymore, and we give him that, but, you know, when it comes to this country's long-term economic safety and long-term economic health, he has failed in regard to capturing -- >> but it's better now, is it not, than when he took office? >> absolutely not. >> you don't think the economy is better now than when he took office and everyone was tearing their hair off and jumping off cliffs? >> i think it's all relative. i think people across the country that can't fill up the gas tank because gas is too expensive, they can't buy a full set of groceries. if you look at what's happening in greece, in europe, across the atlantic ocean, we can all live -- >> we can't help what's happening in greece, can he? >> what i'm say something we can't keep whistling past the graveyard. we have the debt king for a president who had added $5 trillion to the debt who has 23409 done a thing about getting the deficit under control as promised. he hasn't followed through on promises. while we may whistle past the graveyard today, the day is coming when i believe that the debt bomb facing this country is going to be a big problem for us, and we need a person like mitt romney in office that can do something about it. >> quickly, as of a year ago, more than half the babies born in the u.s. were minority. what is the implications of a majority minority as we call it for a party that is still seen and still is in reality largely white and largely male? >> well, i think we've had great successes when it comes to hispanic communities across america. you look at marco rubio, susana martinez, brian sandoval, the governor of puerto rico, but it's not just messengers. as party chairman it's our job to get into the communities, to do our social victories headquarters, to do headquarters in places like kissimmee. the metrics on the ground matter, making sure we go to door to door, getting ballots in the municipal clerk's office and checking our success with what we're doing on the ground. >> i have to run. i hope you'll come back. >> that's a big question. >> i know that preponderance priebus, chairman of the national republican party. thank you for being here. next up, pushing tough decisions past election day could cripple the economy, so why won't somebody in washington do so. plus, breaking news from libya, that the lockerbie bomber has died. cnn's nic robertson joins us in two minutes. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. love the air. [ sneezes ] on the first day you take it. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. ch. some breaking news, the only person convicted in the 1988 lockerbie bombing has reportedly died. joining us by phone from london is cnn's nic robertson. with this death, nic, do secrets of lockerbie and who was behind it die with him? >> reporter: well, megrahi always said that he was innocent, always said that he would prove his innocence before he died, was never able to do it. it always appeared that it was unlikely that one person could have been behind such a complex operation, and other elements of the libyan regime were involved in ways we still don't know. one of the people who would know would be the head of libyan intelligence. perhaps the biggest clue to his importance to ma gr hi was when ma gr hi was released from scotti scottish jail three years ago, it was this man who was waiting at a car to take him away. he's still in live, he's in custody. perhaps he will one day tell the whole truth, but perhaps megrahi has taken some of the secrets to the grave with him if he is, in fact, dead. >> nic robertson on the death of al megrahi, the only convicted criminal in the lockerbie bombing so many years ago. joining me now is california democratic senator barbara boxer and texas republican senator kay bailey hutchison. they will be -- you see them both there. good morning, ladies. thank you so much. i wonder, senator boxer, i know that you had been involved in the release of megrahi, had wanted to look more into this. sna as far as you're concerned, has justice been d