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so, then you have -- feel free to disagree -- if that is the case, though, then you have a republican party that has a presidential candidate that has lost twice who still is attempting to lead the party. is that the point at which republicans grow a backbone? >> it's hard to see that, isn't it? like you said, one thing we know for sure, donald trump is not going to retire to texas to become a painter, you know? the george bush future is not in the cards, okay? so as long as donald trump is with us, he's going to be sending out bleeps and strong-arming people, might go back to calling into the talk shows. who know what is he'll do. but he'll want to have power and continue to demonstrate power. sure, will some of them start to show a backbone then? i guess. you would have thought after 2020, after january 6th, after the disastrous midterms. the reality is at a base level from the bottom up, the party

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win on a whole range of issues. there are many off-ramps for the supreme court if they are trying to duck this issue to send it back and say in various ways that the colorado supreme court got it wrong. so, there is i think a tough row to hoe in terms of this case. but by contrast to the case that lisa is talking about, for some good news, i think the issue of sort of being immune from criminal prosecution, that's one where i would say there is no way in god's green earth that the d.c. circuit court -- and if the supreme court weighs in on it -- that donald trump will prevail in that case. >> andrew weissmann, thank you so much for coming back on this breaking news. neal and lisa, you are staying with us. when we return, we'll stay on this breaking story, the supreme court agreeing to hear

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donald trump's appeal to the 14th case that could leave him off the ballot. our political panel joins us after a quick break. and on "the beat" at the top of the hour, colorado secretary of state jena griswold will be our guest. wold will be our guest. jordan's sore nose let out a fiery sneeze, so dad grabbed puffs plus lotion to soothe her with ease. puffs plus lotion is gentle on sensitive skin and locks in moisture to provide soothing relief. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. america's #1 lotion tissue.

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conservative justices, making a substantive argument, trump's attorney saying she believes justices like kavanagh appointed by former president trump should, quote, do the right thing. that is not how this all works, neil. >> no, it's not. look, i think some people automatically assume that, because this case surrounds a political matter, the elections process, that the court is going to decide it along partisan lines. i really caution people against making that assumption. this issue at its core is about a question of constitutional law. this supreme court has repeatedly rejected donald trump's claims before. remember, trump tried to is many times in the 2020 election to try and get the election overturned. the supreme court had none of that. remember that donald trump tried to invoke executive privilege against the january 6th committee and lost at the supreme court 8-1. he lost the case i just argued at the supreme court, another

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democrats called on clarence thomas to be recused from this case, writing, "this time we must urge you to recuse yourself from any involvement in the case of anderson v. griswold because your impartiality is reasonably questioned by substantial members of fair-minded members of the public who believe your wife, virginia, had substantial involvement in the events leading up to the january 6th insurrection and the financial insensitive it presents for your household if president trump is re-elected are disqualifying." any chance he recuses? >> none in a word. i think that what we're unfortunately seeing in the supreme court justices is an example of might makes right, to the point truly shocking because it's coming from members of the highest court of the land, meaning, you know what, i'm going to thumb my nose at sort of norms and rules that every

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that's not typical. it could happen here, but they may get some clues as to what they're focusing on by how they grant in this case. >> ian, talk about donald trump and his team. we often talk about the ways in which he operates, like a mob boss, the way he sends messages, perhaps not directly but through surrogates. the fact that you have alina hava showing up on fox one day saying he's worried the court won't rule in his favor and then another day saying they expect justices like justice kavanagh to, quote, step up. i mean, the subtext seems pretty clear. >> well, it's remarkably poor strategy. they're used to bullying elected officials who need to run for office in republican primaries who depend on trump's blessing. but of course the justices of the supreme court have life tenure, and they want to establish they're independent. i think that strategy of trying to pressure, bully, or intimidate justice kavanagh is

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i think they really do take the cues from the parties. to put it concretely here, the challengers to trump have the ability to pitch their case using conservative methodology or use liberal methmethodology. i very much think the way to win this case, and i think it is winnable given donald trump's actions and what the colorado trial judge found in finding him to be an insurrectionist, i think it's absolutely defensible what the colorado supreme court did. but it's defensible predominantly on conservative principle, and in particular the idea of the original intent of the 14th amendment. typically, that's the conservative way of thinking about the constitution. we're bound by what the founders, the framers thought. and the left, the political left has generally understood the constitution to be about something that's more living, updated, and the like. trump's arguments in his brief

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country? >> yeah. i think -- again, it's going to become very technical, so this is an off-the-cuff reaction because there's this whole gestapo which i don't want to bore our viewers with too much, but basically, i think the supreme court is expected to just decide the colorado case based on the colorado trial and the trial judge's finding in colorado that donald trump was an insurrectionist, that he'd given aid and comfort to the insurrectionists on january 6th, putting him squarely within the 14th amendment's terms. i think you're right, lisa, to say the court would probably add some language, if they were to affirm the colorado supreme court, the u.s. supreme court would say, look, you know, we're basing it on the way this case, as it comes to the court with the facts as adjudicated by the trial judge. i think then it would be open to donald trump in other states to try and say he's not an insurrectionist. you know, tough argument, but he

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falsification of business records and a few other elements that go to the inherit fraud of the whole thing. >> andrew, trump says they're arguing financial consequences aren't permitted by new york law. europe reaction to these filings as roadmaps for cases they'll make before the judge next week. and the a.g. clearly not backing down, instead, in fact, asking for more. >> well, to just get you even more into the weeds, the reason this is somewhat -- it reminds me of what's about to happen in the e. jean carroll case and we saw in the giuliani case, liability with respect to the first cause of action has already been found, so the reason i analogize to the other two civil cases, is in the rudy giuliani case in washington, d.c., where he was a defendant, liability was found by the court for damages. in the second e. jean carroll case coming up, light has been found by the court, so we're

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>> the attorney general's office had always said their original number, $250 million, was an estimate. now they've gotten through all the in evidence the case, they've laid out the building blocks why that number should be $370 million now. the big chunks of that are $168 million in lower interest rates that the trumps received as a result of what the a.g. says are untruths and these statements of financial condition because they said they were worth $2.5 billion and had $50 million in cash on hand. they got very beneficial interest rates. the attorney general's office has laid out evidence that shows they weren't entitled to that. every year as donald trump's financial position worsened in the course of the last decade, they found ways to bolster those numbers artificially. the other big pot of that is about $180 million from the sale

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